S04.E02: The Lion And The Rose 2014.04.13

[Andeleisha]

I couldn't see the face of the one who portrayed "the King of the North", since it was covered. That performer might have been female,

I think they covered the actors face because they didn't want to cast someone as Penny when the character won't appear again for...2 years? Depending on how they adapt the next two books? But anyway now whenever Penny does come into the story Tyrion can say "You were in that joust! The one who had their face covered!"

[mac123x]

My problem with it is that it happens fairly early, Joff spits out the wine and some of that same wine is spilled over Tyrion's head and enough got into his mouth that he could taste it.  Unless The Strangler is not a rapid poison nor is lethal in minute doses, Tyrion should have been poisoned too.

Yeah, I don’t buy that either.  If it’s the same poison that Maester Cressen tried to kill Mellisandre with, it definitely isn’t slow-acting.  He croaked within seconds of drinking it.

[snowblossom2]

Interested to see where they are going with Shae. They seemed to set up the book events by having Tywin asking for her to be brought to his tower after the wedding, but if they do, I hope a Shae doesn't roll over on Tyrian because of the breakup scene. TV Shae is far too perceptive to have not seen Tyrion's go back to the wild where you belong! Act for what it was, so I'm hoping they come up with something that fits the character.

 

I said this on TWoP and I'll repeat it here -

From a few pages back re: Tywin and Shae. When Tyrion finds Shae in Tywin's bed, I was under the impression (also from Shae's testimony) that Shae was Tywin's pawn this whole time. So Tyrion is getting Tywin's "sloppy seconds" so to speak not vice versa.

Also in the show, I think there's a scene where they're laying this foundation. Shae is getting rid of the sheets after Tyrion and Sansa are married, and gives Tyrion a look when there's no blood/evidence of the marriage being consummated. Later, Tywin tells Tyrion that he needs to bed Sansa (paraphrased). But it seems as though only Tyrion, Sansa, and Shae would know that. I yelled at the tv (and my husband) that Tywin saying that to Tyrion should have been a red flag, that Tywin is not omnipotent.

[GreyBunny]

I think they covered the actors face because they didn't want to cast someone as Penny when the character won't appear again for...2 years? Depending on how they adapt the next two books? But anyway now whenever Penny does come into the story Tyrion can say "You were in that joust! The one who had their face covered!"

That actor yelled, "I'm the king in the north!" several times.  He definitely had a masculine voice.  I think all of the jousters were male and Penny will either be cut or enter the story some other way.  

Edited April 17, 2014 by GreyBunny

[mac123x]

think all of the jousters were male and Penny will either be cut or enter the story some other way.

If they want to introduce her, she can still attack Tyrion in Volantis.  "My brother was a dwarf and he was killed because they thought he was you!".  It doesn't need to have anything to do with Joffrey's little (npi) farce considering the number of other dwarves whose heads wind up in King's Landing because of the bounty Cercei puts on his head.

[Paws]

So I went back to Season 1, Episode 1 to see what little nuggets I may have missed now that I am a Bookwalker. And I noticed that a good bit of Bran's vision was from the pre-credit sequence that started the whole series and then just after the credits--where the Nights watch discovers the White Walkers and then the deserter is beheaded.  The girl he sees, plus Ned's sword after cutting off the head of the guy (unless it was supposed to be his sword after his own beheading) ...he sees these from the POV of the deserter..and I think the sword too? So did the tree give him the dead guy's vision? THe deserter isn't anyone connected to anyone we met later, is he? I thought only the captain he went with was anyone ever mentioned again in the books.  

The scene Im talking about can be seen  here but you can skip to the 6 minute mark to see the girl Bran also saw.  

Also, in the opening credits nearly half of the cast from Episode 1 is gone because their characters were killed off.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Paws

[Jalyn]

So I went back to Season 1, Episode 1 to see what little nuggets I may have missed now that I am a Bookwalker. And I noticed that a good bit of Bran's vision was from the pre-credit sequence that started the whole series and then just after the credits--where the Nights watch discovers the White Walkers and then the deserter is beheaded.  The girl he sees, plus Ned's sword after cutting off the head of the guy (unless it was supposed to be his sword after his own beheading) ...he sees these from the POV of the deserter..and I think the sword too? So did the tree give him the dead guy's vision? THe deserter isn't anyone connected to anyone we met later, is he? I thought only the captain he went with was anyone ever mentioned again.

Book wise, it was Gerard rather than Will that lived and ended up being executed by Ned. We hear about him a couple of time from other NW members. Both Benjen and Mormont mention him, though I'm not sure about anyone else. The mentions are just that he seemed stable and that they were shocked that he would desert and wondering what happened to Will and Royce. I can't think of any connections mentioned other than "he was our brother" - certainly not from any major character.

[jeansheridan]

I really detested the wedding part of this episode.  I thought it was clunky and felt overly staged.  Here comes Brienne to bow to Margery.  Then Cersei is up and talking to her with Jaime conveniently looking on int he background.  And Loras literally bumping into Jaime.  And mutual threats, blah, blah, blah.  Oberyn flirting with Loras was one of the few subtle moments.  

 I did love the rising tension as Joffrey pushes all of Tyrion's buttons, but I didn't like that Tyrion wasn't stinking drunk like he is in the books.  I think the main problem is that the scene in the books is told entirely from Tyrion's drunken perspective, so the fact that no one else really tries to help (Margery tries a few times in the TV version) drives me nuts.  They just passively sit there.  It just felt stagy in the worst way.  

Martin wrote the ep so I guess I shouldn't surprised.  I don't generally like his writing.  I suffer through his books because I've gotten caught up in the characters, but how he writes is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me.   

 

[jeansheridan]

Oh I really hope Penny gets cut.  She drove me nuts just like she drove Tyrion nuts.  And whom would they cast?   An inexperienced actress would be awful.  Peter Dinklage is a rare talent.  Yes, he has played dwarfs (Narnia series), but he often plays fully rounded characters who happen to be a dwarf (Death at Funeral, Station Agent, Pete Smalls Is Dead, Nip/Tuck, etc ...  Is there a comparable actress?  

[Zalyn]

I really detested the wedding part of this episode.  I thought it was clunky and felt overly staged.  Here comes Brienne to bow to Margery.  Then Cersei is up and talking to her with Jaime conveniently looking on int he background.  And Loras literally bumping into Jaime.  And mutual threats, blah, blah, blah.  Oberyn flirting with Loras was one of the few subtle moments.  

[snip]

Martin wrote the ep so I guess I shouldn't surprised.  I don't generally like his writing.  I suffer through his books because I've gotten caught up in the characters, but how he writes is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me.   

I actually liked how awkward and staged the wedding was; it added to the idea that everyone knows Joffrey is a terrible king, but they have to go through the motions in the most perfectly formal way and hope he doesn't notice that everyone loathes him (even Tywin). And the side interactions had this feeling of being at a terrible party where people are desperately trying to find some way to interact with someone bearable for a few minutes.  Everyone was on pins and needles, hoping that they could just finish this and get the hell out of there before Joffrey did another crazy, but alas. 

Oberyn and Loras checking each other out was awesome.  Oberyn and Ellaria were terrific throughout the ep, especially with the twist of Oberyn "conscripting" the man at the brothel.  They were so matter-of-fact about being sexually open - a nice contrast to most of the interactions before.

(I do agree that GRRM's writing gets ponderous at times, but that's a longer conversation for another time)

[Danny Franks]

Oh I really hope Penny gets cut.  She drove me nuts just like she drove Tyrion nuts.  And whom would they cast?   An inexperienced actress would be awful.  Peter Dinklage is a rare talent.  Yes, he has played dwarfs (Narnia series), but he often plays fully rounded characters who happen to be a dwarf (Death at Funeral, Station Agent, Pete Smalls Is Dead, Nip/Tuck, etc ...  Is there a comparable actress?  

I really don't think Penny is important at all. What purpose does she serve, other than to drum up reader sympathy for her and get Tyrion to look at the world in a slightly different way? I don't think it's necessary, and I would hope that the writers of the show come up with something drastically different for Tyrion's Essos storyline. You know, maybe they could make it actually worth watching. Miracles can happen.

I really detested the wedding part of this episode.  I thought it was clunky and felt overly staged.  Here comes Brienne to bow to Margery.  Then Cersei is up and talking to her with Jaime conveniently looking on int he background.  And Loras literally bumping into Jaime.  And mutual threats, blah, blah, blah.  Oberyn flirting with Loras was one of the few subtle moments.

 

I think some of it seemed overly staged and clunky, but I think they were trying to encapsulate the claustrophobic feel of constant politicking and conniving and conspiring that Kings Landing has become synonymous with. In this setting, with everyone there, there's nowhere to hide and everyone can see who you talk to and wonder what you're talking about. I'm not sure it quite worked, but I think that's what they were going for.

What I think worked amazingly well was the bit with Joffrey's play. Seeing the sham war fought between dwarfs, humiliating the other participants (in finest WWE style), and seeing the embarrassment, anger and shame of people like Varys, Olenna, Margaery and Oberyn, and the cold fury of Tyrion and Sansa. I think it's actually a brilliantly executed example of how tension can be ratcheted up and up, without anyone really doing anything.

[jeansheridan]

Danny Franks I do agree about that final play. It was an effective change from the book. And in such bad taste!

[Constantinople]

Further proof that only the good die young.

[John Potts]

OK, I get that most people were cheering at Joff's death, but I'm always distracted by the fact that while he's dying, the camera is pointed straight down Cersei/Lena Headey's dress (so sue me)!

I presume it was Margery that dropped the jewel into Joff's cup when everyone was distracted by the doves. She would also have every opportunity to handle his cup, arousing minimal suspicion.

Not a fan of clingy Shae. Much prefer Book Shae, who's portrayed as somebody who's just in it for the money (which makes sense). Tyrion may believe she really loves him, but I never did.

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 3:20 AM, ellystar said:

Poor Cersei. The only one who cares that Joffrey is dead. Jack Gleeson was amazing in this role, it's kind of a shame that it's all over. A lot of Unsullied seem to think it was the pie, not the wine. It seemed to me like Margaery had the best opportunity with the timing of everything to slip it in while the pie was cut

Jack Gleeson was amazing in the role (and form all accounts a really nice guy IRL)! Did like (narratively) that he died in the arms of his mum & dad.

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 6:15 AM, Joystickenvy said:

I thought it also suggested possible Tywin involvement because a) he wanted a more biddable and sane Tommen on the throne and b) he had motivation to pin the thing on Tyrion.

NO WAY would Tywin kill Joffrey like that - it makes the Lannisters look weak to have him publicly assassinated. If he finds Joff uncontrollable in future, he might have him quietly killed, but not in public.

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 10:05 AM, Helena Dax said:

The "joust" scene made me feel so uncomfortable and amused at  the same time... It's difficult to find such levels of trolling.

Almost make you think making a psychopath King because his (supposed) father was one is a bad idea!