S08.E14: The Benefits Of Friendship

[ZaldamoWilder]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I honestly think that was more about putting Beth in her place more than wanting to be introduced to "the help" properly. I think Lu felt Beth was using that as an opportunity to "take Lu down a peg" by deciding that Lu doesn't deserve the consideration of being addressed formally by anyone. I think it was more about Beth wanting to make it a point that she herself doesn't consider Lu with any sort of respect and therefore she refuses to introduce her in any kind of respectful manner. I think Lu was bristling at the fact that Beth took it upon HERSELF to introduce Lu as SHE saw fit instead of even the most basic of respectful options such as Mrs. or Mr. Did Lu chose the wrong battle? Yup but I think her sentiment was more about checking Beth and her need to impose her own thinking on everyone.

I could see this being true. But in order to do so, I'd have to agree that Beth had that much forethought about a spontaneous occurrence. I just don't think she gave it anymore consideration than my name is Beth, hers is LuAnn.   Absent Bethenny, Lu was kind of a stickler about it with other people so it seemed to be a conscious tick for her - on the phone with a service person she was talking to and at some party where Mario was introducing her to someone, ostensibly on her "level".    I'm not saying it wasn't Beth's intention, I don't know, I just don't think it would've bothered B in subsequent THs and conversations if it had been deliberate.

[Yours Truly]

2 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Lu had no problem with any of it until the season ended.  When they talked about it initially, she told Carole it would all be fine. She continued to vacation with her, host her at her Hampton's home while not filming, and just generally continue the friendship. Had she shown that she was actually upset, things might have been different. She waited until the season was over to throw a big fat fit about it all. And she didn't want Carole - the Pedophile - to be happy, even though by the time she went bat shit crazy they had been dating for a year. What a loon. 

i just don't understand how the story isn't that ironically, Carole is in the camp that is being supportive of Lu right now. The one that Lu treated the most horrendously is the person who was the most kind to her. Don't take my word for it - Lu said it herself. Lu hasn't ever done anything to Sonja. Except for that shady wine deal all those years ago, she has never done much to Ramona either. They are the ones knocking her relationship, yet even when Carole has moved on, the story is still more about Carole and finding reasons why her relationship is wonky. 

That's being blind to the obvious discomfort Lu expresses throughout the season. But that's been debated to death. I think as well as many others that Lu wasn't completely comfortable with it AND Lu herself has said as much. Anyhoo it's more believable that Lu wasn't a hundred percent happy or comfortable with it from the start. Not a stretch. Lu has demonstrated how she can still interact with people even if there are some issues bubbling under the surface so the continued examples of "oh look Lu was able to do her job and be rather gracious while struggling with underlying feelings over the hook up" as some proof that Lu was hunky dory with it the whole time up until she  needed a storyline always makes me giggle.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Do Adam & Carole have an open relationship -- maybe with an implied agreement for discretion?  Could be.  Heh, Carole is way more like Lu than she would EVER admit.  And that is such a Lu thing to do, right?  What do you bet Lu has said to baldie Tom he can screw around if he's discreet (and of course, so can she).  That seems to be the kinda relationships Lu goes for.

Anyhoo, a little advice for ya, Carole, hun.  If you do have an open relationship with the hippiie-dippie stoner-looking cheffy boy, maybe you might not wanna share that little tidbit with Bethenny.  Would be the same as telling Page Six or Daily Mail.  For some reason both Bethenny & Kelly are in DM just about every day.

[Yours Truly]

11 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I could see this being true. But in order to do so, I'd have to agree that Beth had that much forethought about a spontaneous occurrence. I just don't think she gave it anymore consideration than my name is Beth, hers is LuAnn.   Absent Bethenny, Lu was kind of a stickler about it with other people so it seemed to be a conscious tick for her - on the phone with a service person she was talking to and at some party where Mario was introducing her to someone, ostensibly on her "level".    I'm not saying it wasn't Beth's intention, I don't know, I just don't think it would've bothered B in subsequent THs and conversations if it had been deliberate.

I didn't think it was actually a deliberate plan either. I just think number one: Beth subconsciously felt that way so that's how she introduced Lu and Second: doesn't matter if Beth did or didn't mean it that way I think that was Lu's initial thought process when addressing it to Beth. I think for Lu it was about setting Beth straight because she THOUGHT Beth was subtly trying to be condescending to Lu. Not saying Lu was right that Beth was although I kinda think that Beth subconsciously was doing just that. Sorta like fuck that I introduce myself as Beth so fuck if I'm gonna elevate Lu by introducing her as The Countess or even Mrs. anything. This bitch is just Lu the same way I'm just Beth. And as innocent as that all sounds that really isn't for Beth to decide. Well at least not without the risk of someone correcting her which Lu did.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[ElDosEquis]

The Scare-ole/Adam relationship is just one of where Adam can temporarily park his car in Scare-ole 'garage'.

Their relationship is slowly fizzling towards nothingness.

There is a ton of problems in the continuing maintenance of a relationship that has such an age difference. It's social and economic and the way you and everyone around you looks at the relationship. It's not anything for the weak-of-heart.

If someone told me that they had 'five good summers' left, I'd sincerely question sticking around and waiting for the alarm on any biological clock to go off.

[zoeysmom]

35 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Do Adam & Carole have an open relationship -- maybe with an implied agreement for discretion?  Could be.  Heh, Carole is way more like Lu than she would EVER admit.  And that is such a Lu thing to do, right?  What do you bet Lu has said to baldie Tom he can screw around if he's discreet (and of course, so can she).  That seems to be the kinda relationships Lu goes for.

Anyhoo, a little advice for ya, Carole, hun.  If you do have an open relationship with the hippiie-dippie stoner-looking cheffy boy, maybe you might not wanna share that little tidbit with Bethenny.  Would be the same as telling Page Six or Daily Mail.  For some reason both Bethenny & Kelly are in DM just about every day.

I don't think Luann and Tom have any kind of open relationship of the sort.  Luann doesn't have to settle for an open relationship.  She seems to be treating this relationship very different from trans-continental Jacques-she seems to accompany Tom between Palm Beach and New York.  The fact she moved back to the US knowing the Count was traveling all over Asia, Europe and Africa developing his microfinance empire in emerging nations, indicated to me he was more interested in business than his family.  Luann was hurt by being dumped by the Count.  She is gracious enough to acknowledge the 16 years and two children they have together.  If Luann was down for an open relationship I don't think she would react as strongly as she does to the other hags talking about Tom.

Carole and Adam have a relationship that exists in the moment.  Adam seems to travel where and when he wants and Carole rolls out of bed in the morning in search of food.  Neither one seem to be interested in a career.    

[motorcitymom65]

43 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

That's being blind to the obvious discomfort Lu expresses throughout the season. But that's been debated to death. I think as well as many others that Lu wasn't completely comfortable with it AND Lu herself has said as much. Anyhoo it's more believable that Lu wasn't a hundred percent happy or comfortable with it from the start. Not a stretch. Lu has demonstrated how she can still interact with people even if there are some issues bubbling under the surface so the continued examples of "oh look Lu was able to do her job and be rather gracious while struggling with underlying feelings over the hook up" as some proof that Lu was hunky dory with it the whole time up until she  needed a storyline always makes me giggle.

Could all be true. No way to know because we never saw it. Talk of it being uncomfortable? Sure. Nothing more. Carole didn't get to have her "Lu" moment where she was pleading with her friends to accept her new love because there was no acknowledgment that there was a problem that put a friendship in peril. Lu gets to have her moment because folks are telling her how they feel/what they think to her face. Lucky girl that one. Nice to get the opportunity to defend yourself during the actual drama, vs. being attacked and called names on Twitter. And for the record, I have always loved Lu. Have always defended her in almost every situation, but she was wrong last season. Despite that, I would love to see her in love and happy. I loved Carole's blog this week where she said that she didn't believe Lu when she said she didn't give a shit about Carole. Carole said she knows that Lu does care about her, and that Carole cares about Lu.  They just cannot be friends anymore. I hope to see them interact politely, snark on each other a bit, and just exist on the show together. That is enough for me, and what would happen in real life after the nastiness of last season. 

[zoeysmom]

45 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I didn't think it was actually a deliberate plan either. I just think number one: Beth subconsciously felt that way so that's how she introduced Lu and Second: doesn't matter if Beth did or didn't mean it that way I think that was Lu's initial thought process when addressing it to Beth. I think for Lu it was about setting Beth straight because she THOUGHT Beth was subtly trying to be condescending to Lu. Not saying Lu was right that Beth was although I kinda think that Beth subconsciously was doing just that. Sorta like fuck that I introduce myself as Beth so fuck if I'm gonna elevate Lu by introducing her as The Countess or even Mrs. anything. This bitch is just Lu the same way I'm just Beth. And as innocent as that all sounds that really isn't for Beth to decide. Well at least not without the risk of someone correcting her which Lu did.

Bethenny certainly had her moment regarding Heather's familiarity with her name.  She about blew a gasket when Heather called her Beth.  The night of the limo ride, Bethenny acted as if people in the service industry had never been required to call people by Mr. or Mrs., Luann wasn't impolite about it-just cluing Bethenny in on what she preferred. 

When Bethenny was interviewed  for the 100th show special, she went in and on about how she did not even know what a Countess was, was it like a leprechaun, or what?  Bethenny playing ignorant isn't terribly funny, I am sure she would have Googled Count deLesseps, found out his family's connection to the Suez and Panama Canals, Statue of Liberty and the fact he had won a Fulbright Humanitarian  Award in 2004.  Instead she has spent the last eight years denouncing his name, his marriage and the right of his wife to use the title.   

[Yours Truly]

36 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Could all be true. No way to know because we never saw it. Talk of it being uncomfortable? Sure. Nothing more. Carole didn't get to have her "Lu" moment where she was pleading with her friends to accept her new love because there was no acknowledgment that there was a problem that put a friendship in peril. Lu gets to have her moment because folks are telling her how they feel/what they think to her face. Lucky girl that one. Nice to get the opportunity to defend yourself during the actual drama, vs. being attacked and called names on Twitter. And for the record, I have always loved Lu. Have always defended her in almost every situation, but she was wrong last season. Despite that, I would love to see her in love and happy. I loved Carole's blog this week where she said that she didn't believe Lu when she said she didn't give a shit about Carole. Carole said she knows that Lu does care about her, and that Carole cares about Lu.  They just cannot be friends anymore. I hope to see them interact politely, snark on each other a bit, and just exist on the show together. That is enough for me, and what would happen in real life after the nastiness of last season. 

Let's also point out that Carole wasn't treating her hook up with Adam as anything more than a hook up. There's also the difference in that. Hell they are still lukewarm with their own understanding and or direction so it wasn't something of such immense intensity. Lu is admitting that she's found the love of her life. Excited that they are moving towards some REAL lifelong direction. If anything Carole's display reeked more of some sort of accomplishment and one upping. "Heh, yup I'm 50 and I've got this young thing drooling over me, how do ya like dem apples". Carole wasn't really laying it out as something really special and magical just as an awesome score. I took it more like locker room talk to be honest so yeah I get why Lu was disgruntled to see that the sensitive nature of the pairing was disregarded just so Carole could high five the others during her cougar town victory lap. Of course we now see that the relationship evolved into something more <cough> but nothing much <cough>  which obviously sparks Lu's regret over it all but at the time it was nothing more than a conquest for Carole and I think that is why Lu felt so justified in responding in the not so gracious way she did. 

Lu has introduced this new development in her life as an important event, she's expressed just how serious and special it is and she's gone on about it in a manner the leaves no doubt that it isn't just some passing fling so to resort to the antics these women are resorting to just to what? Remind her about just how happy she wasn't with Carole and Adam even though Carole pretty much initially presented it as some passing fancy. Lu was asked to accept it even tho it was emotionally awkward for her. No one in this group is truly affected by Lu marrying Tom. There's no real emotional compromise for any of these women and the closest thing to this being the case would maybe, just maybe be Sonja since she's "known him" and even then really? It's pretty suspect just how involved they really were for it to ever register on her heartbroken radar so give me a break. Doesn't come close to the emotional connection Lu had with some of the players in last years pathetic display.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

6 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Bethenny certainly had her moment regarding Heather's familiarity with her name.  She about blew a gasket when Heather called her Beth.  The night of the limo ride, Bethenny acted as if people in the service industry had never been required to call people by Mr. or Mrs., Luann wasn't impolite about it-just cluing Bethenny in on what she preferred. 

When Bethenny was interviewed  for the 100th show special, she went in and on about how she did not even know what a Countess was, was it like a leprechaun, or what?  Bethenny playing ignorant isn't terribly funny, I am sure she would have Googled Count deLesseps, found out his family's connection to the Suez and Panama Canals, Statue of Liberty and the fact he had won a Fulbright Humanitarian  Award in 2004.  Instead she has spent the last eight years denouncing his name, his marriage and the right of his wife to use the title.   

And for what really? All because it's wrong for people to put on "airs". Also, I always thought "putting on airs" was to behave in a manner that was socially above your current pay grade.. LOL.. But anyway, I guess my biggest defense of all this is that it isn't putting on airs when it actually applies to you or your life. Lu didn't just wake up one day and say "welp, today I've decided to be addressed as Countess and I will deem it so" and then required people to start addressing her that way with no basis for the request. She is a Countess. Her husband at the time was a Count. She dined with Kings in Europe and I know that sounds awfully arrogant and pretentious but it's accurate. She's never claimed anything that she can't back up. And NOW with her shift from being the Count's wife to dating Jaques to her being more open and embracing her single life to going back down the aisle she's adjusted accordingly throughout those phases. It's not like she's clinging to stories of yore like Lady Morgan completely resistant to the idea that that's not her immediate life anymore. And to be honest I'm sure she's still rather relevant in certain circles regardless of her split from the Count. I think that's what people are really seething about. The fact that no matter what direction her life takes her, one things for sure she will never be less than fabulous and can probably still slip in effortlessly with a number of circles here or abroad with the blink of an eye. I think Sonja isn't all well received in her old circles simply because she was more of an extension of her husband that anything. Didn't really leave her mark per se which is why her relevance in those circles are pretty waning. Not our Lu. Even though she was on the arm of the Count, she had her own brand of charisma, charm and individuality. So yeah I don't see Lu as putting on airs. That's what Lady Morgan does. Lu just takes her rightful place in the world of zero fucks and being fabulous.

[OhGromit]

8 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

She dined with Kings in Europe and I know that sounds awfully arrogant and pretentious but it's accurate. 

What kings did she dine with?  I'm honestly curious.  

[shoegal]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

I didn't think it was actually a deliberate plan either. I just think number one: Beth subconsciously felt that way so that's how she introduced Lu and Second: doesn't matter if Beth did or didn't mean it that way I think that was Lu's initial thought process when addressing it to Beth. I think for Lu it was about setting Beth straight because she THOUGHT Beth was subtly trying to be condescending to Lu. Not saying Lu was right that Beth was although I kinda think that Beth subconsciously was doing just that. Sorta like fuck that I introduce myself as Beth so fuck if I'm gonna elevate Lu by introducing her as The Countess or even Mrs. anything. This bitch is just Lu the same way I'm just Beth. And as innocent as that all sounds that really isn't for Beth to decide. Well at least not without the risk of someone correcting her which Lu did.

I think this is the problem with LuAnn, that Bethenny introducing her as just LuAnn to the driver is Bethenny being condescending.  That's the pretentious bullshit issue.  Her name is LuAnn, she's not the fucking Queen of England. 

[Yours Truly]

9 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

What kings did she dine with?  I'm honestly curious.  

It was in her special can't recall cause I was more invested in the whole picture she was painting and this was one of her stories but she wasn't JUST trodding behind the Count looking pretty. She had a pretty sensational run overseas so Lu doesn't fit the bill of "putting on airs".. She's actually got the life story to back that shit up. And if Sonja would put the proper past tense spin on all of her declarations then she would be received much better cause I am in awe of her past but she's got to stop pretending she's still held in that same regard. Thing about Lu I have no trouble believing she's just as relevant in some of those circles today as she was when she was the Count's wife. Her shelf life seems to be a lot more believable when it comes to the social scene. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

See this whole Lu didn't want Carole to be happy comparison is so disjointed. Lu wasn't admonishing Carole wanting to be happy. It was under the circumstances that Carole found her happiness and then continued to be deliberately obtuse about the sensitive nature surrounding the players involved. Debate to the  moon and back about how "relevant" those details were or weren't fine however Lu's happiness really isn't coming at the expense of any of them whereas it was brought to Caroles attention that there was in fact a bit of raw emotion attached to their pairing. Again whether anyone deems the details surrounding the sensitive emotions were significant they were in fact SINCERELY brought up and expressed. That's where the fallout really resides. The other women chastising and trying their best to compare their connections with Tom to Lu's protective reaction to her niece last season is an obvious ploy to exaggerate the circumstances in order to, no surprise, stick it to Lu.  Lame.

To the bolded,

So for how long before it goes away? And why is it for the other women to punish her? Oh, and why is it ok that they are so terrible in general? Because Lu did something not cool while everyone else were perfect little saints? I just don't get it.

To the bolded, was Carole running around declaring that anything that happened "BC" (before Carole) was irrelevant and dismissable??

[zoeysmom]

14 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

What kings did she dine with?  I'm honestly curious.  

King of Greece, Queen of Spain. (They are brother and sister.)  The King of Greece liked Luann and her seated next to him at some function and they attended parties.  Luann provided the photos.

[Yours Truly]

12 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I think this is the problem with LuAnn, that Bethenny introducing her as just LuAnn to the driver is Bethenny being condescending.  That's the pretentious bullshit issue.  Her name is LuAnn, she's not the fucking Queen of England. 

I think Lu was countering what she felt was a deliberate shun from Beth. Beth has the tendency to play these games and I wouldn't let her get away with that shit either just on principle and not just cause I'm "offended" at being addressed in a less than formal tone. I think it was an "I see you and that shit's not gonna fly" move. I think it was more about being defensive of Beth than it was about trying to assert some sort of status above Beth. But hey regardless, everyone has the right to outline what makes them comfortable. There are plenty of average Janes who would be a bit off put about being addressed by their first name and minus the Ms or Mrs. I work at an office. Clients come in and I go to the advisor and announce them as Mr. or Mrs. not Jane or Barney. Do I take it upon myself to do away with the titles cause I think it's ridiculous? No. Professional courtesies don't go out the window just cause Beth feels a certain kinda way about Lu's title. If anything Beth is the more pretentious acting one, solely determining who should and shouldn't be allowed certain courtesy's.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

4 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

I think Lu was countering what she felt was a deliberate shun from Beth. Beth has the tendency to play these games and I wouldn't let her get away with that shit either just on principle and not just cause I'm "offended" at being addressed in a less than formal tone. I think it was an "I see you and that shit's not gonna fly" move. I think it was more about being defensive of Beth than it was about trying to assert some sort of status above Beth. But hey regardless, everyone has the right to outline what makes them comfortable. They are plenty of average Janes who would be a bit off put about being addressed by their first name. I work at an office. Clients come in and I go to the advisor and announce them as Mr. or Mrs. not Jane or Barney. Professional courtesies don't go out the window just cause Beth feels a certain kinda way about Lu's title. If anything Beth is the more pretentious acting one, solely determining who should and shouldn't be allowed certain courtesy's.

Of course LuAnn would think it was a deliberate shun to be introduced by one adult to another adult by her first name.  As "The Countess" has stated, the driver is 'like a kid' and he should therefore address her accordingly.  So. Much. Fucking. Bullshit. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by shoegal

[Yours Truly]

18 minutes ago, shoegal said:

To the bolded, was Carole running around declaring that anything that happened "BC" (before Carole) was irrelevant and dismissable??

There were a few throw away moments during the initial outing of the hook up where Carole was a bit dismissive of the certain points Lu tried to use while describing that she was in an awkward position. Carole counters a couple of Lu small declarations with rather dismissive comments. These exchanges were pretty brief but I remember thinking well damn Carole, way to just blow off what Lu's trying to point out. I think Lu also caught wind of her Carole's zero fucks and decided it worth getting into since Carole was already getting dismissively defensive. I think that's why Lu initially tried to blow it off also and declare that it would be fine but things started to build and the catalyst was when she saw more of the footage afterwards. So funny how this point is always ignored. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Pollock]

4 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

What kings did she dine with?  I'm honestly curious.  

The former King of Greece. Monarchy in Greece was long abolished when she dined with him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_II_of_Greece#Restoration_of_democracy_and_the_referendum The story of his demise is an interesting read if you have the time, and for fun facts he faced some problems because he doesn't have a surname. Thank God those lazy ass royals are all related so despite that, he can still travel for his super important job for the Olympic Games or whatever because he's also a Prince of Denmark and therefore has a danish passeport. But I suppose her Suprem Majesty Elizabeth II would have helped him also if needed because they're cousins too. So yeah for inbreeding I guess.

[shoegal]

Just now, Yours Truly said:

There were a few throw away moments where Carole was a bit dismissive of the certain points Lu tried to use while describing that she was in an awkward position. Carole counters a couple of Lu small declarations with rather dismissive comments. These exchanges were pretty brief but I remember thinking well damn Carole, way to just blow off what Lu's trying to point out. I think Lu also caught wind of her Carole's zero fucks and decided it worth getting into since Carole was already getting dismissively defensive. I think that's why Lu initially tried to blow it off also and declare that it would be fine but things started to build and the catalyst was when she saw more of the footage afterwards. So funny how this point is always ignored. 

Well, I guess "BL" LuAnn should be singing a different tune now!  At least Carole wasn't running around yelling 'why can't you bitches just be happy for me??'.

[Yours Truly]

7 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Of course LuAnn would think it was a deliberate shun to be introduced by one adult to another adult by her first name.  As "The Countess" has stated, the driver is 'like a kid' and she should be therefore addressed accordingly.  So. Much. Fucking. Bullshit. 

It's nothing new so to act like Lu has some over inflated sense of appropriateness is absurd when it's a pretty common practice across the board.

I'm 40 if I meet someone in their 50's or 60's I'll still address them as Ms. or Mr. and I sure as hell will take issue with someone not offering up the same respect I offer others. Plain and simple. It's not some archaic concept.

[shoegal]

5 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

It's nothing new so to act like Lu has some over inflated sense of appropriateness is absurd when it's a pretty common practice across the board.

I'm 40 if I meet someone in their 50's or 60's I'll still address them as Ms. or Mr. and I sure as hell will take issue with someone not offering up the same respect I offer others. Plain and simple. It's not some archaic concept.

I'm wondering, when LuAnn met Bethenny or Alex or Kelly, did she insist on being introduced to them as Mrs. De Lesseps?  I mean, wouldn't you want your coworkers to properly address you?  Did she return the favor and address Bethenny as Ms. Frankel the first time she met her new coworker?  Does she address her boss as Mr. Cohen??  Hmmmmm.

Edited July 11, 2016 by shoegal

[jaync]

Quote

No surgery should ever be taken lightly, but this just ain't worth all the drama Bethenny is throwing at us.

She's totally dramaqueening it for all its worth. If it were such a horrid ordeal, she wouldn't have had Bravo's cameras at her apartment ready to roll for when she got back from her "emergency" appointment.

Quote

Bethenny goes on and on about her bleeding-what does she want these women to do for her? 

Who knows, but I have no doubt she wouldn't do the same for them in the same situation.

Quote

Yeah, Bethy, you might not want to use "blood" in any description of anything ever again ever. Especially food. Even fake candy.

For real, lol. I love how she feigns being involved in every single aspect of the product's process, yet earlier this season when she was shown eating the (fully packaged) candy, she acted as if that was the first time she had ever tasted it.

[Yours Truly]

25 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Well, I guess "BL" LuAnn should be singing a different tune now!  At least Carole wasn't running around yelling 'why can't you bitches just be happy for me??'.

Happy for what tho? That's the part that confuses me. This comparison is so jointed as I said before. The context is different. Lu is setting out on a real serious path that's a very important part of the rest of her life. Carole was banging the Chef who used to date Lu's niece. Nothing more, nothing less.  I find the connection of the two situations rather ridiculous.

[Yours Truly]

22 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I'm wondering, when LuAnn met Bethenny or Alex or Kelly, did she insist on being introduced to them as Mrs. De Lesseps?  I mean, wouldn't you want your coworkers to properly address you?  Did she return the favor and address Bethenny as Ms. Frankel the first time she met her new coworker?  Does she address her boss as Mr. Cohen??  Hmmmmm.

Coworkers are different than subordinate positions. I hold a subordinate position in some regard, again, not a new concept. I'm the administrative assistant to a Corporate official and when I address anyone on his level I use the term Mr. or Mrs. even though I'm 40 and I happen to address who I work for by his first name. Again, the mental gymnastics astounds me.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

26 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Coworkers are different than subordinate positions. I hold a subordinate position in some regard, again, not a new concept. I'm the administrative assistant to a Corporate official and when I address anyone on his level I use the term Mr. or Mrs. even though I'm 40 and I happen to address who I work for by his first name. Again, the mental gymnastics astounds me.

I think the "subordinate position" is what makes it fucking pretentious.  He was just a driver, below Ms. de Lesseps and therefore like a kid, he should address her by the proper name.  It's not mental gymnastics, it's Fucking. Pretentious. Bullshit, Dahhhhhhling.

[shoegal]

39 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Happy for what tho? That's the part that confuses me. This comparison is so jointed as I said before. The context is different. Lu is setting out on a real serious path that's a very important part of the rest of her life. Carole was banging the Chef who used to date Lu's niece. Nothing more, nothing less.  I find the connection of the two situations rather ridiculous.

Well, considering LuAnn had been with her "soulmate" all of about FOUR FUCKING WEEKS at that point, I think the "context" is a bit irrelevant.  Carole and Adam may not be married, but they are still together a year and change later, so obviously it was and is more than just banging. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by shoegal

[OhGromit]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

King of Greece, Queen of Spain. (They are brother and sister.)  The King of Greece liked Luann and her seated next to him at some function and they attended parties.  Luann provided the photos.

Re king of Greece, ditto to the poster who pointed out it's a long-deposed monarchy.  It's like a kind of fame, but it's like claiming you dined with the president of the U.S. when actually it's the grandson of Woodrow Wilson.  I don't know a ton about the former Greek monarchs.  But I did go to school with Princess Olga of Greece-- she was in my class in college.  That was the name she went by at the time, no last name, just "Princess Olga of Greece."  Random meaningless tidbit.  

Edited July 11, 2016 by OhGromit

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, shoegal said:

I think this is the problem with LuAnn, that Bethenny introducing her as just LuAnn to the driver is Bethenny being condescending.  That's the pretentious bullshit issue.  Her name is LuAnn, she's not the fucking Queen of England. 

No but she is Mrs. Luann de Lesseps.

52 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I'm wondering, when LuAnn met Bethenny or Alex or Kelly, did she insist on being introduced to them as Mrs. De Lesseps?  I mean, wouldn't you want your coworkers to properly address you?  Did she return the favor and address Bethenny as Ms. Frankel the first time she met her new coworker?  Does she address her boss as Mr. Cohen??  Hmmmmm.

The driver was a service employee of Bethenny's boyfriend.  His whole purpose in being there was to work.  It was not as if he was the fourth in a mixed double tennis match, who happened to work as a driver.  What's next getting upset because Luann ordered a drink from a bartender?  My first job I worked the front desk at a hotel and we were required to call every guest Mr., Mrs., Miss or Ms..  My co-worker could not tell me it was okay to introduce a guest by their first name. 

It came off to me as Bethenny, raised by wolves, was taken back when someone pointed out a common courtesy.  She maybe made too much of it.  She can tell me from now until the cows come home that Luann's words came off as being superior but I see it just as a common courtesy.

3 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

Re king of Greece, ditto to the poster who pointed out it's a long-deposed monarchy.  It's like a kind of fame, but it's like claiming you dined with the president of the U.S. when actually it's the grandson of Woodrow Wilson.  I don't know a ton about the former Greek monarchs.  But I did go to school with Princess Olga of Greece-- she was in my class in college.  That was the name she went by at the time, no last name, just "Princess Olga of Greece."  

I believe the question is what King did she dine with-not what reigning monarch.  That particular man did serve as the King of Greece until 1973.  So it really isn't the same as being the grandson of an elected official as the title Mr. President is not passed to a president's children.  It is like Luann's son Noelle, his father's title Count will be passed to him.   

[motorcitymom65]

44 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Coworkers are different than subordinate positions. I hold a subordinate position in some regard, again, not a new concept. I'm the administrative assistant to a Corporate official and when I address anyone on his level I use the term Mr. or Mrs. even though I'm 40 and I happen to address who I work for by his first name. Again, the mental gymnastics astounds me.

Which again begs the question, does Lu refer to Andy as Mr. Cohen? Did she ever? When they first met? Somehow I doubt that she did. Even though he was the boss, I'd bet anything she still saw him as a subordinate. 

[shoegal]

4 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The driver was a service employee of Bethenny's boyfriend.  His whole purpose in being there was to work.  It was not as if he was the fourth in a mixed double tennis match, who happened to work as a driver.  What's next getting upset because Luann ordered a drink from a bartender?  My first job I worked the front desk at a hotel and we were required to call every guest Mr., Mrs., Miss or Ms..  My co-worker could not tell me it was okay to introduce a guest by their first name. 

It came off to me as Bethenny, raised by wolves, was taken back when someone pointed out a common courtesy.  She maybe made too much of it.  She can tell me from now until the cows come home that Luann's words came off as being superior but I see it just as a common courtesy.

Oh no, he was a driver, it's not as if he were anyone on LuAnn's level.  Of course not.  He was an employee.  Like a kid who needs to show respect for his teacher.  He's down here, she's up here.  Now get The Countess Mr. de Lesseps a drink, bartender, and make sure it's not from a bottle, you lowly heathen. 

[Yours Truly]

25 minutes ago, shoegal said:

I think the "subordinate position" is what makes it fucking pretentious.  He was just a driver, below Ms. de Lesseps and therefore like a kid, he should address her by the proper name.  It's not mental gymnastics, it's Fucking. Pretentious. Bullshit, Dahhhhhhling.

Not across the board. Some people appreciate respect. Others... well I guess not so much. It's not like Lu was rude to anyone just informed Beth about her preference. It would be different if Lu treated the driver poorly but she didn't. It was a simple conversation that she had with Beth who of course was raised by wolves so one wouldn't be surprised that she needed that little piece of schooling. Just sayin'.

[motorcitymom65]

52 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Happy for what tho? That's the part that confuses me. This comparison is so jointed as I said before. The context is different. Lu is setting out on a real serious path that's a very important part of the rest of her life. Carole was banging the Chef who used to date Lu's niece. Nothing more, nothing less.  I find the connection of the two situations rather ridiculous.

Sometimes, friends are just happy for their friends. Sometimes, people are happy for people that aren't even their friends. Sometimes people don't call folks they said were their friends predators, or aging desperate woman. Not always, but some manage it. Just because. Doesn't have to be because they have found the love of their life. Could just be because a person has found someone to make them happy. Maybe it's someone that has had a tough go of it. Maybe they lost someone once and don't go around looking for "forever". Lu had been banging her man for about 6 weeks by the time this filmed. By the time Lu went nuts in Twitter, Carole had been banging the chef for a year. So I agree, the context is different.  Very, very different. 

I am stunned by the knowledge that a gal has to be in a relationship that is guaranteed to end in marriage before anyone can wish her well or be happy for her. I've been happy for friends who had just a really good one night stand. It really is a world gone mad. 

[Yours Truly]

8 minutes ago, motorcitymom65 said:

Which again begs the question, does Lu refer to Andy as Mr. Cohen? Did she ever? When they first met? Somehow I doubt that she did. Even though he was the boss, I'd bet anything she still saw him as a subordinate. 

Who knows? And I now refer to my boss by his first name. Initial basics in everyday interactions isn't something Lu just pulled out of her hat. She merely likes to participate in already established customs. These sort of customs are really non issues until there is mistreatment where in this case there wasn't.

[shoegal]

1 minute ago, Yours Truly said:

Not across the board. Some people appreciate respect. Others... well I guess not so much. It's not like Lu was rude to anyone just informed Beth about her preference. It would be different if Lu treated the driver poorly but she didn't. It was a simple conversation that she had with Beth who of course was raised by wolves so one wouldn't be surprised that she needed that little piece of schooling. Just sayin'.

Just a simple conversation giving Bethenny a "schooling" on respect, that sounds super respectful and not at all rude.  Yep.  Uh-huh. 

[parisprincess]

Regarding the limo ride discussed above, I don't believe for one minute that the driver was allowed to call Bethenny by her first name. Someone said he was her boyfriend's driver, so I'm sure that when he picked her up, he opened the door for her and said "Good evening, Ms. Frankel.", not "Hi Bethenny". If he did address Beth as Ms. Frankel, she should have introduced Luann as Mrs. DeLeppse (or however it's spelled).

[Yours Truly]

18 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

No but she is Mrs. Luann de Lesseps.

The driver was a service employee of Bethenny's boyfriend.  His whole purpose in being there was to work.  It was not as if he was the fourth in a mixed double tennis match, who happened to work as a driver.  What's next getting upset because Luann ordered a drink from a bartender?  My first job I worked the front desk at a hotel and we were required to call every guest Mr., Mrs., Miss or Ms..  My co-worker could not tell me it was okay to introduce a guest by their first name. 

It came off to me as Bethenny, raised by wolves, was taken back when someone pointed out a common courtesy.  She maybe made too much of it.  She can tell me from now until the cows come home that Luann's words came off as being superior but I see it just as a common courtesy.

I believe the question is what King did she dine with-not what reigning monarch.  That particular man did serve as the King of Greece until 1973.  So it really isn't the same as being the grandson of an elected official as the title Mr. President is not passed to a president's children.  It is like Luann's son Noelle, his father's title Count will be passed to him.   

Exactly. Alot of married women correct those that make the mistake because they want to HONOR their marriage and their husbands. I know it may seem crazy but it's also a very important to woman to have these designations recognized not just Lu. Lu isn't the first one to make such a correction.

And yes it's not for Beth to decide how Lu should be addressed. Lu didn't reach over and slap her or anything she just politely let her know how she preferred being addressed. Basics.

31 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Well, considering LuAnn had been with her "soulmate" all of about FOUR FUCKING WEEKS at that point, I think the "context" is a bit irrelevant.  Carole and Adam may not be married, but they are still together a year and change later, so obviously it was and is more than just banging. 

but at the time the only thing Carole was sharing was that they were banging. Oh and were having fun. No declarations of any significance. Doesn't matter how short the courting was it's obviously serious according to Lu. Carole was shrugging the whole first month of her encounter with Adam. Different intentions make the difference in these two scenarios and like I said before I think comparing them is actually ridiculous anyway.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[SCS]

24 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

Re king of Greece, ditto to the poster who pointed out it's a long-deposed monarchy.  It's like a kind of fame, but it's like claiming you dined with the president of the U.S. when actually it's the grandson of Woodrow Wilson.  I don't know a ton about the former Greek monarchs.  But I did go to school with Princess Olga of Greece-- she was in my class in college.  That was the name she went by at the time, no last name, just "Princess Olga of Greece."  Random meaningless tidbit.  

 

Actually, this is the kind of stuff that makes these threads a helluva lot more fun!

[shoegal]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Exactly. Alot of married women correct those that make the mistake because they want to HONOR their marriage and their husbands. I know it may seem crazy but it's also a very important to woman to have these designations recognized not just Lu. Lu isn't the first one to make such a correction.

...and a lot of pretentious bitches think that the help need to show them respect "like a kid" would an adult .

[shoegal]

4 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

but at the time the only thing Carole was sharing was that they were banging. Oh and were having fun. No declarations of any significance. Doesn't matter how short the courting was it's obviously serious according to Lu. Carole was shrugging the whole first month of her encounter with Adam. Different intentions make the difference in these two scenarios and like I said before I think comparing them is actually ridiculous anyway.

By the time LuAnn went after Carole on twitter and at the Reunion, it was more than just banging and more than a month had passed.  LuAnn demanded respect for her relationship with Tom right out of the gate, yet Carole's relationship with Adam still doesn't get the same respect.  Comparing them is only ridiculous because it makes LuAnn look like the double-standard self involved piece of shit that she is....so.....yeah, she looks ridiculous. 

[parisprincess]

Quote

At least Carole wasn't running around yelling "why can't you bitches be happy for me??"

Well, at that time, I don't remember all the other women running their mouths behind her back or questioning her relationship like they're doing with Luann.  No, she wasn't being treated the way they're treating Lu.

[zoeysmom]

3 minutes ago, shoegal said:

...

5 minutes ago, shoegal said:

...and a lot of pretentious bitches think that the help need to show them respect "like a kid" would an adult .

 

Is there an excess of respect in the world we need to dispose of? 

[shoegal]

10 minutes ago, parisprincess said:

Regarding the limo ride discussed above, I don't believe for one minute that the driver was allowed to call Bethenny by her first name. Someone said he was her boyfriend's driver, so I'm sure that when he picked her up, he opened the door for her and said "Good evening, Ms. Frankel.", not "Hi Bethenny". If he did address Beth as Ms. Frankel, she should have introduced Luann as Mrs. DeLeppse (or however it's spelled).

I don't believe we saw the driver address either one of the ladies by any name.  If the driver had addressed Bethenny by her first name, I don't believe Bethenny would be bothered by it or feel disrespected.  Or feel the need to correct him or anyone else.  I think that's the issue.

[Yours Truly]

47 minutes ago, OhGromit said:

Re king of Greece, ditto to the poster who pointed out it's a long-deposed monarchy.  It's like a kind of fame, but it's like claiming you dined with the president of the U.S. when actually it's the grandson of Woodrow Wilson.  I don't know a ton about the former Greek monarchs.  But I did go to school with Princess Olga of Greece-- she was in my class in college.  That was the name she went by at the time, no last name, just "Princess Olga of Greece."  Random meaningless tidbit.  

We in this country never been that impressed with titles but that doesn't diminish the significance of it under those circumstances in those place. Lu isn't pretending the experiences she's had. She's not embellishing anyone's title she recalling things that happened and she's not pretending it was a big deal. In those circles where she was it had all the relevance she alludes to when recalling those times. Plus, I mean come on. Just because it's eyeroll worthy to some it still holds interest and awe for a majority of people. She's not pulling smoke and mirrors. Things happened in her time with the Count as she said it happened. It's not that it's come out that oh now after investigation we found that she really wasn't a co host of an Italian show she just appeared once or twice as the pretty airhead in a clip here and there with no real purpose. That's not the case. There's nothing misleading about Lu's whirlwind and very impressive life.  I for one don't expect to diminish what I can only imagine was a very treasured life. Why people are so set on having her downplay it so confusing to me. It hurts no one.

20 minutes ago, shoegal said:

...and a lot of pretentious bitches think that the help need to show them respect "like a kid" would an adult .

Well I would expect to be treated with respect wouldn't you? Odd thing to be upset about.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Yours Truly

[shoegal]

2 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Is there an excess of respect in the world we need to dispose of? 

Not in LuAnn's world, she can't get enough respect.  Respect her title!  Respect her relationship!  Respect her privacy (while she swings from the chandelier with a naked guy on her back)!  Show respect or get your schooling!

However, in my world, I'd like to see a little more of The Countess showing respect for the driver and not demeaning him by asking that "like a kid" he should be asked to address her properly. 

8 minutes ago, parisprincess said:

Well, at that time, I don't remember all the other women running their mouths behind her back or questioning her relationship like they're doing with Luann.  No, she wasn't being treated the way they're treating Lu.

I think it was only LuAnn who was running her mouth about Carole and Adam's relationship....and now Carole is the one being supportive and respectful of LuAnn and Tom.  Perhaps the Countess could learn a few things from the Princess.

[motorcitymom65]

18 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Not across the board. Some people appreciate respect. Others... well I guess not so much. It's not like Lu was rude to anyone just informed Beth about her preference. It would be different if Lu treated the driver poorly but she didn't. It was a simple conversation that she had with Beth who of course was raised by wolves so one wouldn't be surprised that she needed that little piece of schooling. Just sayin'.

I would be incredibly insulted if someone I considered a peer decided to school me in manners.  I get it, some folks do that. I believe that it just makes the person you are addressing feel small.  My hubby and I go to a favorite restaurant where we generally sit at the bar.  The bartender there always asks for your name and they put it on a napkin.  I guess if I were Lu I would say "Mr and Mrs Motorcity? She might, but I certainly wouldn't because that would be ridiculous and I would look like a fool.  Is a Driver higher or lower on the service totem pole than a bartender? Since I don't disguinish between "the help" and regular folk, I'm out of touch.  Come to think of it, this is a theme with Lu.  Remember in her blog last year when she started after Carole for going after "her help"? Devastating to be sure  I'm surprised she was able to cope with the grief.  

i think the larger point about that exchange was that this was "The Countess" behaving this way. The way she behaved on TV.  This wasn't Lu that they all knew and liked, who was very different away from the camera. The Lu they knew and liked wouldn't have such trouble about how she was introduced to the help. The Lu they liked would probably be fucking the help. As the matter of fact, I don't think she demanded she be addressed in any specific manner when she was introduced to The Pirate by Sonja.....

[ElDosEquis]

I call people younger than me, 'ma'am and sir' - not to mock them or remind them that they are there to  work for me, but as a sign of respect for another individual

The whole problem with the 'rules of etiquette' is when they need to be enforced. I worked for two women who were 'maam' at work, but when we were out for drinks, they let their hair down and they became human. There was the illusion of professionalism to the people who saw us at work, but they were funny, rude, irreverent and we ALL went to bat for each other when the shit it the fan..

I see lulu's airs as a put on for the show.

The  show was always packaged as looking 'into the fabulous lives' of housewives of each city. As time went on, we found out that no matter what your GPS coordinates are, how much money you have and how perfect your credit rating is, you just might be an regular (Asshole) after all.

The main part is how you act and treat people. If your thing is to be called 'countess' to a driver as opposed to burdening them with a bloody pillow and a tale of woe every fucking minute you ride? I'd probably want to be remembered as a stickler for protocol, NOT SOME FUCKING WOUNDED HARPY with a forked tongue, cloven hoofs and the ass end of a goat, handing out pillows stained with blood- worse yet?

Who the fuck drives around with a bloody pillow? Beffy sure has - I would have either tossed the pillow myself, maybe tossed it into a dumpster or taken it home to dispose of?   The way Beffy carps and complains about things I am sure she would have killed, gutted and skinned someone about having to ride around with a blood stained pillow - better save it for a camera shot, that way people know my ass is bleeding?

Edited July 11, 2016 by ElDosEquis

[shoegal]

12 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Well I would expect to be treated with respect wouldn't you? Odd thing to be upset about.

I think it's odd that anyone would feel that introducing one adult to another adult by their first name is disrespectful.  Of course, unless that other adult is a lowly employee, dahhhhling, then the hierarchy must be maintained!!  The Countess shall be introduced properly to the unwashed masses!!  and if not, then you will be admonished, corrected and "schooled" accordingly, because it's super respectful to tell someone that they have improper manners. 

[Yours Truly]

17 minutes ago, shoegal said:

By the time LuAnn went after Carole on twitter and at the Reunion, it was more than just banging and more than a month had passed.  LuAnn demanded respect for her relationship with Tom right out of the gate, yet Carole's relationship with Adam still doesn't get the same respect.  Comparing them is only ridiculous because it makes LuAnn look like the double-standard self involved piece of shit that she is....so.....yeah, she looks ridiculous. 

Yeah and by that time Lu saw the rest of the footage where Carole was showing her ass about the whole thing while making it clear she gave zero fucks about anything but getting her pistachio cracked by the chef as he tries a new recipe. Relevant factors play a part in a persons emotions and reactions just sayin'. I wanted to slap the shit outta Carole when I saw her nasty ass and TH's and it's not even my niece that she was disrespecting. Carole was all about being happy that she snagged a dude 20 years younger than her whose last piece of ass was 30 years younger. All of the lovey dovey shit came after that rather disgusting display and Lu went on her attack because she saw the despicable prequel to their strained relationship in full force.

Hard to feel happy for someone who smirks and giggles into the camera that she could give a flying fuck about how your friends niece handles the news even though it was expressed that emotions were a bit raw over the issue.

That's not the case with Lu's declarations about her relationship this season.

20 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Is there an excess of respect in the world we need to dispose of? 

Good question. Apparently there is and Beth is the ambassador.  LOL

[Yours Truly]

35 minutes ago, shoegal said:

Just a simple conversation giving Bethenny a "schooling" on respect, that sounds super respectful and not at all rude.  Yep.  Uh-huh. 

Well I for one have no problem doing it if I find myself in the presence of someone who disrespects me frequently. Then it's time to get Barney style on a mofo cause that shit doesn't fly. Most people would agree that addressing something head on in order to avoid similiar occurances of disrespect in the future is not something to feel guilty about.