Greenleaf - General Discussion

[jhlipton]

On 4/21/2017 at 3:39 PM, Dee said:

"Greenleaf" Makes Space On TV For Queer Black People In Church

You have an extra "https" in your link.  It should be https://www.buzzfeed.com/frederickmckindra/greenleaf-makes-space-on-tv-for-queer-black-people-in-church?utm_term=.lyApqy7kRx#.qf81Pr8GlQ

Edited April 23, 2017 by jhlipton

[TVForever]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

 

If you mean "the lighter girl is good and the darker girl is bad", I feel you.  All part of the Wonderful World of Colorism.

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I was getting at, but hoping I was wrong. But it certainly does seem to be playing out that way, doesn't it? Especially after last week's episode (Sophia's party).

On 4/20/2017 at 11:17 AM, Dee said:

 

Speaking of Sophia, I'm glad Greenleaf cast Isaiah with a lightskinned actor and had a darker skinned actor to play Sophia's boyfriend to avoid piling on that particular storyline's already existing colorism issues.

 

Same here. Especially since the show has gone from hinting at the "good girl(light)/bad girl(dark)" thing to being much more blatant about it. Sad, because otherwise I'm loving the show.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, TVForever said:

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I was getting at, but hoping I was wrong. But it certainly does seem to be playing out that way, doesn't it? Especially after last week's episode (Sophia's party).

Same here. Especially since the show has gone from hinting at the "good girl(light)/bad girl(dark)" thing to being much more blatant about it. Sad, because otherwise I'm loving the show.

Although we do have Charity, the dark skinned sister as the "good sister". 

 

10 hours ago, Syndicate said:

See, I wonder if Kevin was actually destined to be gay altogether and his mother did indeed step in and worked feverishly to steer her son in the direction of women? This would've robbed Kevin of his true feelings preventing Kevin from exploring those feelings. I think this probably actually happens a lot in real life. Young gay people being pressured, even browbeaten by family members into being with members of the opposite sex. Throw religion into it and it's extra tough. Kevin may have married Charity and made babies with her, but it can't be overlooked that his urgings for men are so strong (especially in season 1), that he'd be staring at men on his phone while Charity was actually lying in his lap. 

I think kevin is probably in the middle of the Kinsey scale (a 3-4 rather than a 6). Not that gay people don't remain in the closet and marry people of the opposite sex, he and Charity did seem to have a genuine attraction to each other. I don't think he was faking that part, and that makes for better story telling in my opinion and much more true to life. 

[Syndicate]

6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Vengeance may be the Lord's but justice is not.  If the Lord can't put Mac in jail, if He lets one more girl get raped, then He's not much worth worshipping, is He?

 

If you mean "the lighter girl is good and the darker girl is bad", I feel you.  All part of the Wonderful World of Colorism.

That was the third reason she gave (after the problems with the schools, and Leonard "not being sincere".  If she really didn't want Grace, she could have said so earlier.  I think she just doesn't want to get married and will use any excuse.

I don't get this reference (other than Mr Mobisson looks a bit like Mr Dirden).

=================================================

ETA: Charity, you don't out anyone without their permission.  Ever.  Even to your mom.  Just say that the problem is between you and Kevin, and you can't say more.

Kirissa, your daughter has to beg and plead (and bring your husband in) to go to a chaperoned birthday party, but you let her drive off with three other teens and no adults?  Out of character for her!

YES! I absolutely did not like that Charity told her ice queen mother that Kevin was gay. BITCH MOVE!

Edited April 24, 2017 by Syndicate

[Dee]

3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Although we do have Charity, the dark skinned sister as the "good sister".

Charity's not really the "good" sister. She's the ignored Greenleaf sibling.

The only reason she has seen more favor from her parents recently is because Faith's dead, Jacob's gone and they both have complex issues with Grace.

Edited April 24, 2017 by Dee

[mrsbagnet]

I don't think they are presenting Zora as "bad" and Sophia as "good." I think Zora is being a normal teenager with a new boyfriend, and Sophia is being insufferably pious. You could argue that both of their actions are misguided. Newly baptized Sophia giving Grace guidance about her own faith was too much. Zora wanting to ditch Sophia on her birthday was not cool. Both girls are certainly being annoying, but most people are at that age.

[Dee]

The show isn't presenting Sophia as overzealous though which is the problem.

Zora is being written, and treated as, unfailingly flawed and sneaky, but nothing too out of the ordinary for a normal teenager.

Whereas Sophia's been lauded by her entire family, to the point where her grandfather took her mother to task for not wholeheartedly supporting her daughters conversion, and her post-baptism attitude is framed less as self righteousness piousness & more as guileless curiosity. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Dee

[Evagirl]

20 hours ago, TVForever said:

Unfortunately, that's exactly what I was getting at, but hoping I was wrong. But it certainly does seem to be playing out that way, doesn't it? Especially after last week's episode (Sophia's party).

Same here. Especially since the show has gone from hinting at the "good girl(light)/bad girl(dark)" thing to being much more blatant about it. Sad, because otherwise I'm loving the show.

Let me say I'm #3 on the same thought.  I immediately thought of the Eddie Murphy movie, "Coming to America".  They had two sisters who were very different.  The darker-skin sister was buck wild and the lighter-skin sister was the "good" girl.  Greenleaf is taking it to a whole new level with the lighter-skin cousin being not only a good girl, but a new Christian on "fire for the Lord" who is having to school her pastor-mother about prayer.  Whereas the darker-skin cousin is all about boys and partying.  I'm not liking it one bit.  

If the writers were confronted about this they'd say that was not their intention blah, blah, blah.  But just like the Dorothy Vaughn character told the white lady in Hidden Figures - "I'm sure you believe that."

[MulletorHater]

On 4/20/2017 at 8:38 AM, TVForever said:

Related question: Why is Basie characterized so BLATANTLY slimy? He and Tasha are almost like Boris and Natasha-straight up cartoon villains.

Wait- Basie and Tasha; Boris and Natasha- I think I'm onto something, lol!

Seriously though, there's nothing subtle about either of those two. At least most of the other characters have some shades of gray (some more than others, but still...)

I know, right?!  Pastor Light 'n Wavy gives new meaning to the term, "pimp in the pulpit."  That fool has an answer for everything, doesn't he?  "Even the Lord keeps secrets!"

I'm still a little iffy about the wife especially when she broke down and started crying to Kerrisa about how the church was having money problems and about Basie's side deals.  I'm still on the fence as to whether she was sincere, or if it was all an act to insinuate herself into Kerrisa's confidence.  All the better to set Jacob, and by extension, the rest of the Greenleafs, up for an epic fall.  As I observed before, Jacob doesn't have a lick of sense and it's hard to believe that he is so easily led by such an obvious con as Basie.  But, after what I saw last week, I'm starting to believe that Basie's "side deals" is shorthand for "street hustles."

[wanderingstar]

Baisie is a crook, but I still enjoy him.

It's clear everyone is still raw about Faith's death. That one guy made a mistake talking to Jacob about possibly giving Mack a job.

Speaking of Mack, his new girlfriend is in for one helluva wake-up call.

Next week looks bonkers.  

[Dee]

29 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

It's clear everyone is still raw about Faith's death.

It was a nice change of pace that Charity and Jacob (along with James & Mae), in their own ways, were finally allowed to grieve her death.

One of Greenleaf's biggest plotholes from the very beginning is how little the rest of the family, other than Grace, mourned Faith, given how recently she'd passed.

Sophia is annoying but she shouldn't have apologized to Zora. She doesn't owe Zora's self serving little behind anything.

There was also a quick bit of clarification on the birth order of the Greenleaf siblings; with Grace as the oldest, Jacob as the second born, Faith being the third child and Charity bringing up the rear as the baby. 

Kevin & Aaron need to hurry up and do it.  Them sneaking looks at each other was very junior high school. All that was missing was a note that said "Do you like me? Check yes or no." 

Grace's thirst for vengeance has made her blind to Mae's suffering. And Mae, as usual, is way too stubborn to confide in Grace.

Pastor Jidenna is gambling away all his Pomade funds. He's lucky Jacob is such a gullible idiot.

Mac is really gross. Greg Alan Williams is giving it his all but Mac has reached R. Kelly/Woody Allen levels of disgusting.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Dee

[mrsbagnet]

I'm beginning to wonder why Grace is staying at her parents' house. She and her mom obviously don't get along, and Lady Mae takes every opportunity she can to berate and belittle Grace. Why doesn't she just get a job (out of the church) and go out on her own? She's not a teenager. She doesn't have to take her mom's abuse.

That whole scene with Lady Mae demanding Grace come look at pictures was ridiculous. Lady Mae was just looking for a fight. I agree that Grace's Mack mission is out of control, but her mom is not the person to tell her that, given their history.

[Neurochick]

On April 24, 2017 at 1:07 AM, mrsbagnet said:

I don't think they are presenting Zora as "bad" and Sophia as "good." I think Zora is being a normal teenager with a new boyfriend, and Sophia is being insufferably pious. You could argue that both of their actions are misguided. Newly baptized Sophia giving Grace guidance about her own faith was too much. Zora wanting to ditch Sophia on her birthday was not cool. Both girls are certainly being annoying, but most people are at that age.

I see it this way:  Zora was raised in the church.  The church life is all she knows; she's the Bishop's granddaughter.  Sophia was raised in Arizona and it seems the religion was never a part of her life.  I see Zora as the archetype, rebellious preacher's daughter, or the girl, bored with her church life, is looking to try new things.  Sophia on the other hand is amazed at this new world she's in.  Last season the show implied that she was around mostly white people, in school; now Sophia is in a completely different environment and she's loving it.     Sophia's not pious IMO, she's just on a pink cloud, one that will surely burst.

[jhlipton]

"Kevin, come and spend the day with my family who hates you and is the driving force behind our split."  "Sounds like a great way to spend the day!"

I think Pastor Jacob is just about done with Pastor Oily.

[TomGirl]

Does anyone else think Sophia resembles a young Megan Markel?

[MulletorHater]

On 4/28/2017 at 8:10 PM, mrsbagnet said:

I'm beginning to wonder why Grace is staying at her parents' house. She and her mom obviously don't get along, and Lady Mae takes every opportunity she can to berate and belittle Grace. Why doesn't she just get a job (out of the church) and go out on her own? She's not a teenager. She doesn't have to take her mom's abuse.

That whole scene with Lady Mae demanding Grace come look at pictures was ridiculous. Lady Mae was just looking for a fight. I agree that Grace's Mack mission is out of control, but her mom is not the person to tell her that, given their history.

I wondered about that myself.  It's been obvious ever since her return that Grace is struggling with a crisis of faith (no pun intended).  There was an interesting and right-on-time op-ed piece in today's New York Times about how wrong evangelical Christians were to defend Bill O'Reilly.  To paraphrase the author, on the one hand churches have a tendency to love the sinner so long as he is a man of power and influence, while condemning and shaming the victims of that man's abuse.  Grace must have struggled mightily to contain her disgust with not only her parents as a unit, but Mae individually, who not only has a tendency to look the other way but to also come up with some ridiculous platitude to smooth over the horrific things that Mack has been doing.  Who wants to sit at the table and look at pictures just so that Mama can ease her conscience?  I know I wouldn't have.  It's bad enough Grace told her parents 20 years ago what was going on and they refused to believe it.  She comes back home for Faith's funeral, and has to then go the extra mile to get proof that others were also being molested before they finally believed.  And, because Bishop was implicated in burning down his own church, where someone died, the whole Mack thing had to be finessed.  Churches have a tendency to want to deal with this kind of crisis in house--that's if they deal with it at all.  Well, we saw how well that worked out here especially with the scholarships that Mack's victims were "rewarded."

As mentioned upthread, last night's episode was the first time we saw how the rest of the Greenleafs were grieving over Faith's death.  Until then, the story had always been told from Grace's perspective.  Not only did it seem that Grace was mourning all by herself, but she was fighting against Mack all alone and with virtually no support whatsoever from her pious parents, who are the church that Grace has attended and was taught to love.

I know that Bishop is in the beginning stages of Parkinson's but Grace needs to get gone.  She doesn't need to be under her parents' roof with all this tension and hostility.  There are some people--even a mother--that you have to love from a distance.

[Radar]

So only 8 episodes and then a break!  Anyone know why they are splitting up the season?  If it is only 13 episodes again they should have just let it play all the way through. Coming back for just 5 episodes at a later date seems like a bad scheduling idea. I had expected it to be concluding the week before Queen Sugar resumes.

[AyeshaTheGreat]

6 hours ago, Radar said:

So only 8 episodes and then a break!  Anyone know why they are splitting up the season?  If it is only 13 episodes again they should have just let it play all the way through. Coming back for just 5 episodes at a later date seems like a bad scheduling idea. I had expected it to be concluding the week before Queen Sugar resumes.

I am not definitely sure why but I do know they are still filming this season so that has to have some affect on why they need the break.

Overall, I am enjoying season 2 but I do agree with those that wonder why Grace doesn't move out of her parents' home. I guess she is so focused on trying to catch Mack that she took the quickest job and housing available.  

[Dee]

I wonder how differently James would deal with the Mack situation if he wasn't concealing his Parkinson's.

[Neurochick]

OMG!  That's all I got now.

i knew where it was going when the glass table broke.  I knew what Grace was going to do, poor Grace but it had to be done.

[Syndicate]

Grace and Uncle Mac. Good lord! So much blood oozing out of his veins. Is he dead? I'm obliged to think so. Kevin finally gave up his "man pussy" to another man. I don't like that they seemed to want to conceal the scenes of them kissing though. If they're gonna tell this story then show it honestly and entirely.

[Dee]

That was intense. Merle Dandridge is really bringing it this season.

[mrsbagnet]

So Zora's boyfriend just gon' turn into Nino Brown? I'm proud of her for walking out. She is her mother's child - offering honest criticism and not putting up with BS.

I wonder if Grace will feel bad for letting Mac bleed out once she realizes Sophia is safe. Probably not, and I'm not sure that she should. It's ironic that Grace is the one who led that girl back into Mac's life. If she hadn't contacted her, the girl would never have been in Mac's apartment. My LOL moment is when Mac called his girlfriend "beautiful," and she gave him a cold stare. She was not playing.

Jacob opening a church across from his father is still a bad idea. He needs to do something else with all that money.

The amount of oily, self-serving BS that comes out of the pastors' mouths is astounding. I think their greatest talent is thinking of things to say so quickly. Pastor Greenleaf saying that God sent that deer to damn near kill Grace? That was low.

Edited May 4, 2017 by mrsbagnet

[Dee]

11 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

Jacob opening a church across from his father is still a bad idea. He needs to do something else with all that money.

Kerissa's contempt for all things Lady Mae continues to be amusing. Just wait until Mae realizes there will be a Second First Lady Greenleaf in her future.

[sereion]

Mac hitting on that young girl made my skin crawl. I'm so glad she got out of there. Man, if Mac didn't do a 180 on his girlfriend once his 'contact' kicked him to the curb; since Grace practically ruined him, he has nothing else to lose anymore. That said, that fight with him and Grace was intense; I'm glad she went for the jugular. I would have gotten the heck out of there afterwards, though. 

I was afraid for Zora as I just knew she was going to catch her boyfriend's hands, he was still a self-absorbed jerk, and I'm glad she left the studio.

Jacob needs to run far away from Pastor Pretty Boy. At least he's trying to be the voice of reason to convince him to fall back on the shady dealings. 

Lawd, just imagine if Lady Mae or Bishop Greenleaf would catch Kevin and his new friend making out, lol.

Can't wait for the new season!

Edited May 4, 2017 by sereion

[Syndicate]

1 hour ago, sereion said:

Mac hitting on that young girl made my skin crawl. I'm so glad she got out of there. Man, if Mac didn't do a 180 on his girlfriend once his 'contact' kicked him to the curb; since Grace practically ruined him, he has nothing else to lose anymore. That said, that fight with him and Grace was intense; I'm glad she went for the jugular. I would have gotten the heck out of there afterwards, though. 

I was afraid for Zora as I just knew she was going to catch her boyfriend's hands, he was still a self-absorbed jerk, and I'm glad she left the studio.

Jacob needs to run far away from Pastor Pretty Boy. At least he's trying to be the voice of reason to convince him to fall back on the shady dealings. 

Lawd, just imagine if Lady Mae or Bishop Greenleaf would catch Kevin and his new friend making out, lol.

Can't wait for the new season!

I totally expect ice queen Lady Mae to be the one to catch Kevin getting pounded by her friend's lawyer son.

[Arcadiasw]

Wow. Just wow. I forgot this was the spring finale.

Mack really is a cold MF. The way he shut down that woman. “Bottom shelf, off brand, rotten piece of old ass.” Wow.  I guess she was blind or had low self-esteem to get involve with a man like Mack, especially with the news that circled around him. I was really worried Mack was gonna rape Grace before trying to kill her. Glad that didn’t happen and Grace fought back and that girl got away from Mack.

Interesting how Sophie lectures Grace the dangers of speeding like a parent would a child and yet she shows she’s still a kid forgetting to have a charger in her car and lets her phone die for over two hours? LOL

I’m glad Zoe had the sense to leave that boy and not be a foolish to stick around for that bull.

I can’t wait for Lady Maye to find out what Kevin and Aaron have been doing in her home. Her reaction will be gloriously hilarious!

A third church? Is Jacob crazy? Take that wedding money and leave Basie Skanks. I wouldn’t bail Basie out. He got himself in that mess. Still, Jacob’s “You mess with Black people’s money, they gonna rise up and take it back” and Kerissa’s “sneering ass Mama” has to be the lines of the night.

[MulletorHater]

All I can say is, chile....

I'm still trying to digest it all.  As intense as last night's show was, kudos to the writers and directors.  The storylines are character-driven and within the realm of possibility.  So, when Mack doesn't get what he wants, his smooth-talking representative leaves and the real Mack springs forth.  I knew that he was faking the funk with that lady, and it was obvious that for all her "encouragement," she didn't trust his ass any further than she could throw him.  You could see him slowly unraveling trying to keep up the pretense.  I think he was going to dump her once everything was in place, but this is what happens when women hook up with men as if they are a social experiment.  Lawd!  When he let loose, you could see the light fall from her eyes and her whole countenance fell.  His verbal abuse was beyond cruel and this is how he really felt about her all along.  This woman clearly didn't have enough self-respect to realize she was actually being insulted by a crusty old sexual predator, who was locked up.  It's pathetic that she was begging.  Run--don't walk--to the nearest exit, girl, and don't look back!

Mack wasted no time calling Little Miss Jail Bait.  At least a question was answered for me.  It appears he didn't try to rape (not seduce) her until last night.  I'm glad she fought as if her life depended on it and got the hell up out of there.  

Why are Kevin and Aaron having sex in Bishop's house?  I have a funny feeling that after Mae is done hyperventilating and making threats, Aaron is going to be like, "Who 'gon check me, boo?"  He's already subtly put her on notice when she tried to butter him up with that cake.  Last week, quite a few people I know were criticizing Charity for choosing to end her marriage.  This week, it's like crickets chirping.

And, speaking of people going from 0 to 100 in less than 60 seconds, why does that kid think he's Iceberg Slim or Ike Turner?  I'm glad that Zora had enough sense and self-respect to call Sophia and leave.  She also seemed to recognize that no one in that room was going to check that kid or have her back.  When he ushered Zora out of that room, I cringed.  He gets in her face and then yells at her for interrupting him.  The whole time, I'm yelling, "Fuck do you think you're talking to?!!"  I wonder if this will be the start of a teen abusive relationship storyline.  

Poor little Pastor Skanks.  Now, how is he going to get all "swole" up in the chest about Jacob's bailout offer when he's the one that fucked up?  It was fascinating watching the way the wheels spin in his head and the way he whips up the congregation and plays on their emotions so they can open up those wallets.

I loved the smooth way Darius was able to insinuate himself into the house and kissed Grace in front of her family.  And, how ironic that a misunderstanding led to Grace rushing over to Mack's place?  He thought Grace was the one who prevented him from getting that job (it was actually Jacob), and Grace thought he had her child.  That last scene--whew!  For a moment there, I thought Mack was going to rape Grace.  I'm glad she went for the jugular.  Will he bleed out, or will he be like Jason Voorhies and live another day to cause mayhem?  Bishop did tell Grace to be still; will her actions come back to bite her?

[Dee]

26 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

I'm glad that Zora had enough sense and self-respect to call Sophia and leave.  She also seemed to recognize that no one in that room was going to check that kid or have her back.  

I found that scene ironically amusing because Kerissa swears Jacob and Zora are two peas in a pod, when in reality, Zora takes after her mother as much as she does her dad.

Immediately after Isaiah flipped out on her, Zora calmly assessed her situation, maintained her composure & made plans to leave ASAP all without ever giving Isaiah the satisfaction of letting him see her upset. Total Kerissa move.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Dee

[Arcadiasw]

19 hours ago, Syndicate said:

Grace and Uncle Mac. Good lord! So much blood oozing out of his veins. Is he dead? I'm obliged to think so. Kevin finally gave up his "man pussy" to another man. I don't like that they seemed to want to conceal the scenes of them kissing though. If they're gonna tell this story then show it honestly and entirely.

I laughed at the camera angles. Maybe the show felt giving implied oral to ex and fiancée is okay, a kiss between a father and a daughter that implies past incest and abuse is fine but two men kissing is blasphemy to the eyes of the viewer.

 

4 hours ago, Dee said:

I found that scene ironically amusing because Kerissa swears Jacob and Zora are two peas in a pod, when in reality, Zora takes after her mother as much as she does her dad.

Immediately after Isaiah flipped out on her, Zora calmly assessed her situation, maintained her composure & made plans to leave ASAP all without ever giving Isaiah the satisfaction of letting him see her upset. Total Kerissa move.

While I applaud Zora for getting away from that boy, I still gave her a bit side eye. Sophia was interested in the boy first and when the boy took more interest in Zora she didn't stop him, bragged about having him in front of Sophia, ditch Sophia on her birthday to go off with him and when Sophia picked her up, she has an attitude.  She better hope Sophia doesn't develop a backbone to her.

The opening credits had Oprah Winfrey as a special guest star but I didn't see her. Was her appearance brief or was the scene deleted?  

[Dee]

16 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

While I applaud Zora for getting away from that boy, I still gave her a bit side eye. Sophia was interested in the boy first and when the boy took more interest in Zora she didn't stop him, bragged about having him in front of Sophia, ditch Sophia on her birthday to go off with him and when Sophia picked her up, she has an attitude.  She better hope Sophia doesn't develop a backbone to her.

Oh, I'm totally with you. Sophia's definitely a much better friend, and cousin, to Zora than vice versa. The fact that Sophia hasn't snitched on Zora, even with her recent conversion, is a virtual miracle.

[Joimiaroxeu]

"We don't believe in luck." Okay then. Is luck considered sinful by these ultra-religious types or do they just prefer to call it grace?

On Gigi's behalf I'm annoyed by Sophia's sanctimony. Yes, Gigi was being irresponsible and letting herself be driven by heated emotion but AFAIC a grown woman doesn't need to be preached at by her teenaged child.

I'm glad Jacob isn't trying to hide the Pastor Jidenna situation from Kerissa. She knows what time it is and all the scales have fallen from both their eyes. And did I understand correctly that Jacob hasn't been paid yet?

Aw, Zora has an abusive boyfriend. Hope he doesn't go Chris Brown on her. Really hope he doesn't pick and choose some Old Testament scripture to try to justify his behavior to her.

Jacob probably shouldn't have told that lowlife Skanks about his money. I see an attempted double-cross in his future.

Ugh, Mac. He should not pass go but go directly under the jail. I'm fine with Gigi letting him bleed out but she's probably going to get charged with manslaughter, or at least attempted manslaughter if he somehow survives.

Excellent midseason finale.

[mrsbagnet]

2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

I laughed at the camera angles. Maybe the show felt giving implied oral to ex and fiancée is okay, a kiss between a father and a daughter that implies past incest and abuse is fine but two men kissing is blasphemy to the eyes of the viewer.

I hadn't thought of this, but you're probably right. They could have been worried about how viewers would react. I figured that the two actors didn't want to really kiss each other and that angle allowed them to fake it.

[wanderingstar]

So much to process in this episode.

The scene of Mac trying to rape Michaela was stomach churning. That death was too good for that piece of dirt. Grace might be haunted by it, but it had to be done.

Quote

I was afraid for Zora as I just knew she was going to catch her boyfriend's hands, he was still a self-absorbed jerk, and I'm glad she left the studio.

I was literally screaming "Zora get away from him!" during that scene.

I feel like they've hemmed and hawed on showing Kevin getting romantic with a man, so I'm glad he finally got some with Aaron(?), though things are sure to get messy when Lady Mae finds out.

Baisie is a delusional mess, but watching his hypocritical sermon (and Kerissa and Jacob's reactions to it) was hilarious. Jason Dirden is a delight in this role.

Do we know when the second half of the season begins?

Edited May 10, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[Evagirl]

11 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Do we know when the second half of the season begins?

I think I saw August of this year at the end of the show.

Also, I set my DVR to record the show again and added 30 minutes to the end.  They showed an interview Gregory Alan Williams who plays Mac, after the show's credit, but I didn't have extend time so I didn't get it.  I'm anxious to see Gregory Alan Williams be interviewed as himself.  He plays such a nasty guy on Greenleaf that it should be interesting to see in a "natural" light.  Maybe he'll slip up and let us know if Mac lives or not.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Evagirl
added to original post

[TomGirl]

15 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

 

The opening credits had Oprah Winfrey as a special guest star but I didn't see her. Was her appearance brief or was the scene deleted?  

She was in the scene where Grace was having flashbacks as she was driving over to Mac's.

[jhlipton]

21 hours ago, Dee said:

Immediately after Isaiah flipped out on her, Zora calmly assessed her situation, maintained her composure & made plans to leave ASAP all without ever giving Isaiah the satisfaction of letting him see her upset. Total Kerissa move.

I loved that Zora immediately said "Nuh uh" to Isaiah's crap but didn't give him a chance to get violent ot do the "but, sweetie" routine.  Nod, smile, and get the hell out.

Sophia has her own boyfriend, who treats her better than Isaiah treats/treated Zora, so I don't think she'll be too mad about Zora's antics.

Sometimes parents need to be preached at by their child.  Grace definitely need a sermon from Sophia.

[Dee]

I'll never have a problem with Sophia's attitude towards Grace.  Her mother put her directly in harm's way, without warning, in the name of vengeance. That is unforgivable imo.

[Scarlett45]

The human part of me wants Mac to bleed to death, he deserves it for all the hurt he's caused, but the viewer in me wants him to live for the drama it will cause. His exchange with his GF at the end of the episode was well executed and not the least bit surprising. Given the woman was jealous of a "niece" and knew what Mac was about and was dating in anyway demonstrated what low self esteem she had. Him calling her those awful names, I wanted her to shank him but a "please don't" wtf. 

The back 5 episodes will be interesting but I agree with the other posters, the joy of a 13 episode season is NO BREAKS. 

[MulletorHater]

On 5/4/2017 at 7:23 PM, Arcadiasw said:

I laughed at the camera angles. Maybe the show felt giving implied oral to ex and fiancée is okay, a kiss between a father and a daughter that implies past incest and abuse is fine but two men kissing is blasphemy to the eyes of the viewer.

 

Hell, I found Jacob and the church secretary having sex inside the church before the start of service to be more jarring and blasphemous than a kiss between two men.  Shouldn't Jacob and that side piece have been struck down by lightning?  At the very least, their bodies should have been covered in boils or something.  This is the same Jacob who wanted his wife to basically allow him to do what he wanted in exchange for going to a few counseling sessions.

If anything, I'm more concerned about the anvils that seemed to be falling when Kevin put the baby down and took the baby monitor with him.  I hope nothing happens to that baby while in Kevin's care.  I wondered if Charity has some underlying resentment toward Kevin because of the loss of the other twin.  This issue wasn't addressed at all; maybe they will when the show returns.

[Dee]

I'm waiting until Mae tells Kevin & Aaron she possesses proof of them getting busy via a conveniently hidden nanny cam.

[Scarlett45]

On 5/9/2017 at 2:42 PM, Dee said:

I'm waiting until Mae tells Kevin & Aaron she possesses proof of them getting busy via a conveniently hidden nanny cam.

Oh shit I didn't even think of that. And I can so see Lady Mae telling Aaron to put the moves on Kevin. 

[Dee]

‘Greenleaf’ Renewed for Season 3 at OWN

[sugarbaker design]

On 5/4/2017 at 10:03 PM, mrsbagnet said:

I figured that the two actors didn't want to really kiss each other and that angle allowed them to fake it.

Do you really think two actors who were cast as gay men would have a problem kissing another man for their art?  This was a production decision.  I don't know what's worse, homophobia or kowtowing to homophobia.

Edited August 11, 2017 by sugarbaker design

[jhlipton]

On 8/11/2017 at 9:08 AM, sugarbaker design said:

Do you really think two actors who were cast as gay men would have a problem kissing another man for their art?  This was a production decision.  I don't know what's worse, homophobia or kowtowing to homophobia.

Would a straight man or woman object to kissing an opposite sex partner "for their art"?  Many have -- why would it be different if the actors are gay?

Edited August 16, 2017 by jhlipton
Oh yes you did...

[sugarbaker design]

I never mentioned the sexuality of the actors.  I stand by my post.

[Neurochick]

Shit, that male cop was the epitome of a male chauvinist pig.  You see a woman beaten and bruised and you treat her like a criminal?  Men have more upper body strength than women, last time I checked.

Also, have all these people forgotten that Mac was a rapist and was in jail until he turned against the Bishop and they let him out of jail?

Also an autopsy would show that Mac was drunk, he got drunk when that girl he tried to rape got away from him, drunk and violent, a bad combination.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Neurochick

[mrsbagnet]

I was pleased to see Kevin confront the "Pray the Gay Away" group leader, but I hope he hasn't gone off to hurt himself.

Kerissa is still my favorite character. Too bad she's married to a dud like Jacob. I hope his new idea works out for them.

[Syndicate]

I feel so sorry for Kevin. He is so terribly conflicted. I hope he isn't thinking of suicide or something.

[Dee]

Kerissa and Jacob are much better when they work together. She's still a nagging shrew and he's still an immature mama's boy but together they're at least somewhat tolerable.

Gigi's story was crazy. I've had my reservations about Merle's performances during the last season & a half, but she really knocked it out of the park in this episode. 

Kevin & Charity's story was boring. Deborah Joy Winans remains gorgeous and Tye White is giving it his all but they still feel superfluous to the rest of the show.

Aaron is very cute and deserves much better than Kevin.

Zora continues to be a terrible friend/cousin to Sophia.

GregAlan Williams is a great actor, but Mac HAD to go.

Keith David & Lynn Whitfield continue to anchor this show wonderfully. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Dee