HBO's Official Game Of Thrones Blog Has Published A Pretty Big Spoiler

[Primetimer]

DON'T GET MAD, THEY'RE THE ONES WHO DID IT!

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[bluvelvet]

So this confirms that Rhaegar was Jon's father.

[Constantinople]

I think even Orson Lannister has figured this one out.

[Auntie Velvet]

I somehow thought I'd read that Tyrion was related to Jon and Daenerys, but if there's evidence in the chart I can't see it. Not that I really can make most of it out anyway.

[halgia]

This was like 99.9% revealed in the last episode, no?

[bluvelvet]

You know when I first started watching this series, I did not believe the R+L = J theories, I really thought Jon would just be Ned's bastard son. Then again I thought Jon would stay dead, so I was so very very wrong.

[Umbelina]

How is that a spoiler though, who else could have been Jon's father, though I note there is no "marriage" noted between his parents, which may just be an oversight, but they are saying she was "abducted" which implies she didn't go willingly.

[AndySmith]

Quite possibly the most anti-climactic Spoiler Alert since Spoiler Alerts were invented.

But, whatever. I guess it's something fans of Mopey McPoutsalot can cream themselves over...

Edited June 29, 2016 by AndySmith

[Maximum Taco]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

How is that a spoiler though, who else could have been Jon's father, though I note there is no "marriage" noted between his parents, which may just be an oversight, but they are saying she was "abducted" which implies she didn't go willingly.

Also Jon doesn't have a little crown by his name designating him as a member of the Royal Family, even though he's acknowledged to be Rhaegar's son.

[glowbug]

I think this chart is based on what we as the audience already know so Lyanna was abducted, never married Rhaegar and Jon is not officially a member of the royal family. All of these things may be true (except for the third if bastards should be included) but I think the chart would look the same whether they're true or not. 

[poppy-]

I read this damn chart so closely trying to find the spoiler. It's really just .... Jon's parentage. Damn you PTV.

[MarySNJ]

5 hours ago, glowbug said:

I think this chart is based on what we as the audience already know so Lyanna was abducted, never married Rhaegar and Jon is not officially a member of the royal family. All of these things may be true (except for the third if bastards should be included) but I think the chart would look the same whether they're true or not. 

Exactly. Jon is still presumed to be a bastard, whether Rhaegar's or Ned's, by the audience. Or put another way, they're not going to disclose that Jon is royalty at this point if it turns out to be true. It just confirms what was implied in the episode: Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark. 

[Constantinople]

9 hours ago, Dougal said:

This was like 99.9% revealed in the last episode, no?

Could have been a virgin birth.

That would also explain certain events that took place earlier this season.

[Silly Angel]

It doesn't say that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna, just that those were the rumors. They still could have married in secret, which would explain the presence of the Kingsguard at the TOJ and Lyanna's desperate need to have Ned care for the baby.

[Hanahope]

Could Rhaegar have married Lyanna if he was still married to Ellaria?  Or are we to assume he found out about Ellaria's death and hightailed it over to ToJ to quickly marry Lyanna, then rushed back into battle?

[Lady S.]

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

Could Rhaegar have married Lyanna if he was still married to Ellaria?  Or are we to assume he found out about Ellaria's death and hightailed it over to ToJ to quickly marry Lyanna, then rushed back into battle?

Rhaegar predeceased his wife, Elia. The theory is that he decided to just embrace bigamy like his ancestor, Aegon the Conqueror, who married both his sisters. Myself, I think it's a bit of a moot point now that we've just had a scene of Jon being declared king by people who stated they didn't care he was a bastard.   

[nodorothyparker]

I wouldn't have considered this a spoiler either had I not spent some time browsing elsewhere where a number of posters couldn't figure out that the baby was indeed Jon or if they did thought he must be Robert's secret son who must be protected from ... Robert, per Lyanna.  Apparently the show needed to put baby Jon in a Go Team Dragons onesie.

[Maximum Taco]

2 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

It doesn't say that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna, just that those were the rumors. They still could have married in secret, which would explain the presence of the Kingsguard at the TOJ and Lyanna's desperate need to have Ned care for the baby.

Pretty sure every mother in the world would beg their brother on their death bed to care for their child.

I mean if Jon is a bastard is Lyanna gonna say "Oh, he's just a bastard Ned. Drown the whelp for all I care"

Kingsguard presence can be explained through them being given an order. Jaime was protecting the King (as well as Elia and Aegon and Rhaenys) and Rhaegar was with Barristan and Lewyn Martell and Jonathor Derry and Ser Jonathor's brother Ser Willem was guarding the Queen and Viserys.

With the Royal Family sufficiently guarded the Kingsguard are sworn to obey the King, and presumably the King had conferred that ability on Rhaegar as well by appointing him as his commander.

[AndySmith]

Quote

Apparently the show needed to put baby Jon in a Go Team Dragons onesie.

His other onesie has "Westeros' Most Special Snowflake" written on it.

[Fex]

I had heard the (completely unconvincing - to me) theory that the Mad King could be the father, so I guess this chart would be significant to anyone who believed that?

[Lady S.]

3 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I wouldn't have considered this a spoiler either had I not spent some time browsing elsewhere where a number of posters couldn't figure out that the baby was indeed Jon or if they did thought he must be Robert's secret son who must be protected from ... Robert, per Lyanna.  Apparently the show needed to put baby Jon in a Go Team Dragons onesie.

Yeah, I think most people on this forum, unspoiled by books/filming spoilers or fully Unsullied, understood what was going on. But man, reading comments under some of the reviews for the finale...

[Umbelina]

8 hours ago, Silly Angel said:

It doesn't say that Rhaegar abducted Lyanna, just that those were the rumors. They still could have married in secret, which would explain the presence of the Kingsguard at the TOJ and Lyanna's desperate need to have Ned care for the baby.

Yes, it does say abducted.  Look again.  Also, there is no marriage line.

Yet our unsullied knew long ago, and I don't think it was because they were "led" there, the mods were pretty stringent.  They simply paid attention.

[glowbug]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, it does say abducted.  Look again.  Also, there is no marriage line.

Yet our unsullied knew long ago, and I don't think it was because they were "led" there, the mods were pretty stringent.  They simply paid attention.

stillshimpy, one of the original Unsullied, said that they were spoiled unintentionally by book walkers about R + L = J. They were spoiled before there was an official Unsullied section on TWOP I believe (or if there was a section it wasn't as strict as it came to be), and it was this spoiler that at least in part led to there being an Unsullied section with strict ground rules about spoilers. 

I still don't think the fact that this chart says Lyanna was abducted and that Lyanna and Rhaegar were never married means anything. The chart is simply showing what the audience knows as of now. I doubt the show would carelessly spoil something like that. It may turn out to be true that she was abducted and they never married but I would expect the chart to look the same either way. I think it will turn out that Lyanna was not abducted but it's a toss up whether Rhaegar married her or not. 

Edited June 30, 2016 by glowbug

[Minneapple]

It could just be that HBO doesn't know the truth of R+L=J and is just making a bunch of assumptions. 

[stillshimpy]

Quote

stillshimpy, one of the original Unsullied, said that they were spoiled unintentionally by book walkers about R + L = J. They were spoiled before there was an official Unsullied section on TWOP I believe (or if there was a section it wasn't as strict as it came to be), and it was this spoiler that at least in part led to there being an Unsullied section with strict ground rules about spoilers.

Yeah, that's basically what happened, except it was that the idea was introduced by people who had read the books, in that thread, before it was actually against the rules to do so.  So we'll never really know how soon it would have organically occurred to anyone that "Huh, they use super cagey language whenever it comes to Jon's parentage, like "you may not have my name, but you have my blood" , but it wasn't a malicious spoiling.  It just turned out those were people who had read the books, but hadn't read spoilers for the show ....and at the time they weren't breaking rules because the uber-complicated rules for the Unsullied hadn't formed yet.  Unlike the constant "Dany's infertile!" thing the "Jon is actually the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna" it truly wasn't people trying to force spoilers on anyone.  It was people speculating about what the story really hadn't revealed up to that point for them.   Rules for the Unsullied started to form when I had guessed, in reaction to that scene where Ned says that infamous line, that no one knew who Jon's mother was....and bookwalkers rained from the skies to say "that's right! In the story no one knows!" (or words to that end)....cue the many rules to follow. 

So it was a thought that was introduced early on, but funnily enough, the show also heavily implied that true Targs were "dragons" and that dragons couldn't be harmed by fire....and then Jon was burned by a lantern while stopping a Wight.  

By season five with Littlefinger and Sansa in the crypts the show went SUPER overt in the "So ....something totally is up with the story of Lyanna and Rhaegar" .  As for anyone not getting that Jon is the baby from the Tower of Joy, that's just one of those "I think a lot of people drink fairly heavily while watching this, because you'd have to be a blunt force trauma victim, trolling the fans for shits and giggles, or drunk as a laird not to have made that connection by now."  

Whatever direction the book takes it in, I think the show will likely stick with the "abducted by" version for Lyanna, because the books can give a lot of backstory that the show really can't at this point.  Or it could, it's just likely to be a pretty labored effort.  (oh that was a terrible and entirely unintentional pun)

Edited June 30, 2016 by stillshimpy

[SFoster21]

On June 29, 2016 at 1:04 AM, AndySmith said:

Quite possibly the most anti-climactic Spoiler Alert since Spoiler Alerts were invented.

But, whatever. I guess it's something fans of Mopey McPoutsalot can cream themselves over...

He's so pretty with it!. Those eyes and that hair and ... just candy.

[AndySmith]

Blech. I'd rather spend time with other far more interesting characters, even if they aren't as pretty.