Fix The Show? Or It's Fine As It Is?

[cooksdelight]

I'm seeing various comments about what you'd like to see happen on this show. Does it need tweaking?

I'd personally like to see them pick people who are not trained survivalists, but real people who need the money. Someone who's homeless or about to lose their home, someone who has bills out the wazoo for whatever reason. Myself, I think I could hunker down and wait it out as long as I had something (anything) to eat once a day. But then a friend who was actually homeless for a year and living on their own said that the lack of anyone to talk to almost drove him crazy.

I'd be interested in hearing other thoughts on what or who you'd like to see on this show.

[riverheightsnancy]

I think that I am in the minority now, but I think the show is fine. The editors needs a kick in the pants, though. Trying to create fake drama is not needed for this show (at least it didn't seem to be last year). Last season was so different. We reveled in the quiet moments and introspection and the beauty of the video shots. We don't hear that this season. At all. The biggest complaint that I am seeing is how the contestants aren't entertaining.  Sort of like, they need to be putting on a show or something. Alan was different, but his entertaining us is NOT what won him the contest. His attitude, no doubt helped, but it is not the reason he won. His skills and abilities did (IMO) and lasting longer than Sam.

 I personally like the introspection of the contestants and thought that the show was supposed to be about one's journey to be alone, whatever that is for each person (and editing plays a huge part in what we see of each person's struggle). I am not that interested in people only there for the money and talk about THAT incessantly. There are tons of other shows that the contestants are only there for the money. I hope this show doesn't go that way because, I can just watch Survivor or a bunch of other shows for that. Last season was awesome and it feels like the show is losing it's way. I think that Jose and Nicole (and Tracey & Mike if they had stayed) were/are awesome contestants and I would like to see more of them and what they are doing. For me the show is about the human intra-psychic experience. I know others feel differently. I hope that it doesn't change too much, if so, I won't watch it anymore. I could always watch Mountain Men or Swamp people, or arctic warriors, or whatever else is on like that, if I want trumped up drama or something more like that.

As a side note, I think that the title for last week's show is pretty offensive. As much as I dislike Larry and really do think that he has perhaps some anger/ control aspects of his personality that "might" need to be addressed (ONLY if it is causing him problems in his real life), to call it "madness" is really an unfair characterization of him IMO (said as a person in the psychology field who doesn't like him on the show).  

[walnutqueen]

^^^ What riverheightsnancy said.

(and thanks for saving me the pain of typing, rhn!)  :-)

[AZChristian]

Someone suggested somewhere on this forum (I think) that it would be interesting to have something like they had in the Hunger Games movies.  Whenever a contestant was eliminated, a cannon shot could be heard over the entire area . . . so each contestant knew exactly how many were left.  Seems to me that this might add a bit . . . "I want to tap out, but there are only _____ of us left.  I think I can hang on a bit longer."

Thoughts?

[holly4755]

I don't think that would be approved because it would disturb why people go to that part of the world, the peace. And it would disturb the animals as well. 

[SRTouch]

I pretty much agree with what riverheightnancy is saying. Is the show perfect? No. Could it be tweaked to make it better? Sure. I actually think part of why I prefer S1 was better, at least as I remember it, there was more quiet appreciation of VI. I like that there isn't an announcer trying to built drama, but it seems the editors have taken over the drama building position this season. Frankly it just distracts from my enjoyment of the show. The show, IMO, is a compromise between showing survival techniques and the introspection someone experiences when they're alone. It fills a niche between a full out survival 'how to' show and a show featuring self analysis. While I would like more emphasis on the 'how to', I'm happy with the show ... doesn't mean I'm going to stop complaining, but hey that's just a hobby I picked up in the Army.

The show has never really been about meeting the physical demands of living - the mental part is just as important to winning. Alan did not win last season because he had the best survival skills, but because he took the skills he has, and with his determination to outlast the others he managed to live in a small cave and eat seaweed and small fish from soda bottle traps with the occasional larger fish from his net. As for as making the shift from survival into wilderness living, as Jose said, if that had been the goal Lucas would have won.

I don't see how changing the selection process would work. Whoever is chosen has to be willing to leave their job and family for two or three months - remember they spend time proving they can survive, learning the equipment, etc before being dropped off in the woods. How many folks worried about how to make their house payment are going to drop everything on a 10% chance of 500k? Who pays the bills while they're competing, or finds them a job if they got fired for being gone for 2+ months. Sure, they may have determination out the kazoo, but I for one am not interested in to someone, make that several someones, cry about how they'll lose everything if they tap out.

Ah well, sort of an endless debate - and I'm missing MM and TPC. Let me end this with, I may b*tch about the show, but it fills a niche just fine and I'm happy with it - oh, and this forum improves the enjoyment.

[seasick]

Just now, AZChristian said:

Someone suggested somewhere on this forum (I think) that it would be interesting to have something like they had in the Hunger Games movies.  Whenever a contestant was eliminated, a cannon shot could be heard over the entire area . . . so each contestant knew exactly how many were left.  Seems to me that this might add a bit . . . "I want to tap out, but there are only _____ of us left.  I think I can hang on a bit longer."

Thoughts?

Not on board with that because it's more about an individual challenge than a competition with each other.  Not knowing makes their decisions to stay or go strictly about themselves.  Best part of the show IMO.

[seasick]

Although I have my gripes, overall I like the whole format of the show.  I would like it if everyone who participated was there to truly challenge themselves for as long as possible, and overall I think most are. 

I am wary of 'recruits" and those who have businesses to promote though.  Just like the manufactured drama and phony cliffhangers, I think the show has enough going for it that it can stay authentic.  I don't think they should forego an an applicant who is gung-ho to be chosen for someone who may have 'more personality' , or a dramatic story they can infuse, or a 'cause' because they think it will be more entertaining or relatable.   The raw format and a belief in the authenticity is what is so entertaining to me.  I don't want to be manipulated and turn this from Reality to a 'Realodrama'. (I think I made that word up lol  Idk)   

I would like for them to slow down the first days and show all the participants getting settled and set up.  Not just for their skills but it's fun to see their attitudes and hear what they are thinking at that crucial time, and shots of their camp set up.  Plenty of time ahead to hear how being alone is affecting them.

I love the idea of the show and hope they trust the viewers enough to keep it simple and 'is what it is".   Love the forum!! Best part!

[SRTouch]

28 minutes ago, seasick said:

Although I have my gripes, overall I like the whole format of the show.  I would like it if everyone who participated was there to truly challenge themselves for as long as possible, and overall I think most are. 

I am wary of 'recruits" and those who have businesses to promote though.  Just like the manufactured drama and phony cliffhangers, I think the show has enough going for it that it can stay authentic.  I don't think they should forego an an applicant who is gung-ho to be chosen for someone who may have 'more personality' , or a dramatic story they can infuse, or a 'cause' because they think it will be more entertaining or relatable.   The raw format and a belief in the authenticity is what is so entertaining to me.  I don't want to be manipulated and turn this from Reality to a 'Realodrama'. (I think I made that word up lol  Idk)   

I would like for them to slow down the first days and show all the participants getting settled and set up.  Not just for their skills but it's fun to see their attitudes and hear what they are thinking at that crucial time, and shots of their camp set up.  Plenty of time ahead to hear how being alone is affecting them.

I love the idea of the show and hope they trust the viewers enough to keep it simple and 'is what it is".   Love the forum!! Best part!

Totally agree. No need to recruit if even half of the reported number of applications are true. Not saying a true expert should be excluded just because they are a true expert, but I don't see the need to seek them out. My guess is several of the regulars on Mountain Men, Last Alaskans, Life Above Zero, etc would have no problem thriving on VI, but to go out and recruit someone like that is just bringing in a ringer to give the money to.

[cooksdelight]

7 minutes ago, SRTouch said:

Totally agree. No need to recruit if even half of the reported number of applications are true. Not saying a true expert should be excluded just because they are a true expert, but I don't see the need to seek them out. My guess is several of the regulars on Mountain Men, Last Alaskans, Life Above Zero, etc would have no problem thriving on VI, but to go out and recruit someone like that is just bringing in a ringer to give the money to.

Yes, it's one of my gripes about people being recruited. 

I also agree this season doesn't have the same quiet feel last season did. And, I wonder if it would make a difference if someone sent up a flare or whatever to let people know someone had left?? Would it give them the drive to hang in there longer? 

[seasick]

Just now, cooksdelight said:

Yes, it's one of my gripes about people being recruited. 

I also agree this season doesn't have the same quiet feel last season did. And, I wonder if it would make a difference if someone sent up a flare or whatever to let people know someone had left?? Would it give them the drive to hang in there longer? 

(screaming in horror)  NOoooooo!   That is the headgame!   You stay as long as YOU can. Of course you'd LOVE to know,  but ..You're out there always wondering...    are they All still there..am i doing better than the majority...How much longer..how many are left...  56 days last season....   (Of course it only matters to those who have come with the hope to win. The others have no need to think about it)   

[rainsmom]

I like it as is. I would change the editing, not the set up. I really want to know a lot more about what they're doing to survive, how they set up camp, etc. The mental aspects should be balanced or minimized. And, yes, please stop with the fake drama. We're already sold, so give us what we want.

[cooksdelight]

All of the previews that are fake outs need to stop. Or else I'm going to think Gordon Ramsay is in charge.

[Quilt Fairy]

12 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

^^^ What riverheightsnancy said.

(and thanks for saving me the pain of typing, rhn!)  :-)

ditto

[LocimusPrime]

This show needs major changes. Here are some suggestion 

• Allow different types of people. Since 90% of this game is mental, have some applicants such as solitary confinement prisoners, homeless people, monks, just people who are used to being alone mixed in with the usual crowd. 
• More action and less personal introspective junk. I'm tired of seeing them sit there complaining about being alone and missing their families ect. Duh that's what you signed up for. 
• Make first place 1 million and second place 500 k. 
• Allow them the ability/ right to kill any animal that they might encounter. 
• Try to encorporate more physical encounters either with animals or natives ( obviously that would mean changing locations ) 
• Allow for a second method of winning, you either outlast everyone or build some watercraft and make it to an location 300 miles off shore. No rescue team will be available. They will film you from helicopter. 
• You have the option of receiving 50 lbs of food, but there will be no rescue team for you. You are truly alone. 
• If the US producers will not allow the exclusion of rescue teams, change production to an overseas company where they are more lax. 
• Finally if two survivors are left and no one seems like they are going to tap, they have the right to challenge each other to hand to hand combat.  Same rules as MMA but no octagon. 
• Also you are allowed to travel as far as you want but not allowed to share resources or communicate with other competitors. However, you are allowed to destroy and loot another competitors camp. You would be allowed to set their stuff on fire ect, lead animals to their camps ect. 
• Contestents should also be allowed to booby trap their campsites for protection against wildlife and other competitors. 
• If you choose the food option in lieu of a rescue team and perish during the filming , all your worldly assets will automatically transfer to the winner of the games instead of your family. 

Now on that would be the best show in the world. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by LocimusPrime

[riverheightsnancy]

1 hour ago, LocimusPrime said:

This show needs major changes. Here are some suggestion 

• Allow different types of people. Since 90% of this game is mental, have some applicants such as solitary confinement prisoners, homeless people, monks, just people who are used to being alone mixed in with the usual crowd. 
• More action and less personal introspective junk. I'm tired of seeing them sit there complaining about being alone and missing their families ect. Duh that's what you signed up for. 
• Make first place 1 million and second place 500 k. 
• Allow them the ability/ right to kill any animal that they might encounter. 
• Try to encorporate more physical encounters either with animals or natives ( obviously that would mean changing locations ) 
• Allow for a second method of winning, you either outlast everyone or build some watercraft and make it to an location 300 miles off shore. No rescue team will be available. They will film you from helicopter. 
• You have the option of receiving 50 lbs of food, but there will be no rescue team for you. You are truly alone. 
• If the US producers will not allow the exclusion of rescue teams, change production to an overseas company where they are more lax. 
• Finally if two survivors are left and no one seems like they are going to tap, they have the right to challenge each other to hand to hand combat.  Same rules as MMA but no octagon. 
• Also you are allowed to travel as far as you want but not allowed to share resources or communicate with other competitors. However, you are allowed to destroy and loot another competitors camp. You would be allowed to set their stuff on fire ect, lead animals to their camps ect. 
• Contestents should also be allowed to booby trap their campsites for protection against wildlife and other competitors. 
• If you choose the food option in lieu of a rescue team and perish during the filming , all your worldly assets will automatically transfer to the winner of the games instead of your family. 

Now on that would be the best show in the world. 

Sounds like a completely different show to me. There are legal issues and safety issues regarding some of what you postulated. There have already been a couple of reality show deaths, I don't think that is what they are going for here. 

[LocimusPrime]

6 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

Sounds like a completely different show to me. There are legal issues and safety issues regarding some of what you postulated. There have already been a couple of reality show deaths, I don't think that is what they are going for here. 

To resolve the legal issues move production, management, and ownership to foreign entity and film in foreign country like Russia, Ukraine, Turkmenisten. They already do crazy shows in Russia. One Russian show involves contestants actually stealing a car and trying to evade the police from capture for 30 mins in the car. 

In regards to what they are going for, these are suggestion for how I would make the show, as it stands right now season 2 is boring compared to 1.  Safety issues can be skirted if you are not an American production company.  Create a Turkmenisten company, and film over there  

[Joan Z]

What I like about the show (and what makes the show interesting) is the unknown. You don't know how long you have to stay to win, you don't know how many contestants left, you don't know your dropped off area (you might be dropped off at bear den, on hilly terrain, on swamp land, mice or salmon den), you don't know the other contestants abilities (you might have general idea of their skill level but you don't know how well they're doing & adapting to different environment). So I want that part of the show to stay that way - unknown. 

I'm kinda in the middle regarding the contestants. I like that some of them do this show not for the money because I'm sick of watching other competition shows where the contestants are selling their tears and sob stories to advance or to get pity vote. But then i hate when the contestants on this show who are not in it for the money tap out because they've 'accomplished' what they wanna do, whatever that is. Or they tap out because they feel selfish. Or because they're scared of hurting a cub. I feel like they're not trying hard enough or they're too comfortable with where they are in life instead of striving higher and challenge themselves. But that's me (I'm ambitious and love pushing and challenge myself). I realize not everyone is like that - and that makes us human and interesting. So i try to accept and understand whatever reasons they tap out (although i still can't help myself to feel annoyed sometimes with their reasonings).

On second thought, i think the show and the contestants are fine as it is. It's difficult for us to accept and understand some of the tap outs because this is the only show (as far as my limited knowledge of reality show goes) where the contestants eliminate themselves. In other shows, the viewers/vote or judges make the decision and eliminate contestants who under performed whereas in this show, we don't have vote or judges to make the call. The contestants decide and eliminate themselves from the competition. In other shows, there are more than one person (vote and judges) who make the decision so we tend to believe they'll make the right decision and trust their decision more. You know, two is better than one. In Alone, since the contestants make the decision themselves, with the pressure of being in a competition, we think that maybe they make a rushed decision and not think things through. 

Plus, the show isn't really about survival. It's more of a mental game. The best example is last year's winner. I love Alan but he won because of his mental strength, not his survival skills. If we're talking about skills, i think mitch and Lucas or even sam showed more skills than Alan. Alan didn't even built a camp, he found a small cave.

The contestants on other competition shows know exactly what's going on, so they just have to convince themselves to beat x more contestants or suck it up for x more weeks. In contrast, the contestants on Alone have no idea what's going on. They don't know how many contestants left or how long they have to stay to win. And that's the part where i think many of us underestimate. It's much more difficult and easier to crumble when there are so many unknowns. The unknown pushed them to their limit. I'm pretty sure the show will not have all these tap outs if they know exactly how many contestants left or how long they have left. Having a timeframe and knowing how many contestants left will make this show too easy for these guys. 

Come to think of it... We've been criticizing them for tapping out whether they tap out because of bear, mentally weak or they have issues. But what are the right reasons for them to tap out? What are the reasons that we will happily accept without criticizing them and calling them a wimp? Hurting or cutting themselves like MK? but we criticized her for poor technique. Mauled by a bear or cougar? We will probably criticize them for not being cautious. Heart attack? Death? Sick or dying family member? Mitch's tap out was the only one with the most positive feedback. I can't think of other possible reasons for now. Or we don't want them to tap out at all? But that's the premise of the show! Otherwise how do we find the winner?! I just think the show can't please everyone. 

I think the reason why the show chose 'survival experts' to be on the show is because it is too risky and dangerous to let people with no survival knowledge to be totally alone in the woods/forest. Shows like Survivor have crews and other contestants with them to stop or avoid any danger. The people on this show (Alone) is, well, alone. They have some kind of survival knowledge yet we see them made mistakes like drinking polluted water, cutting themselves, eating at their sleeping camp, setting a tree on fire. And these guys are supposed to be experts! So just imagine what kind of disaster will happen if they allow people with no survival knowledge on this show. 

So to summarize the long crappy post, I'm fine with the concept of the show and the selection of the contestants. I want those parts to stay as it is.

I agree with many people here - most of the drama this season are unnecessary and take away the authentic feel of season 1. So, scrap that, Alone producers!! Larry brings enough drama to the show lol. 

I know the show isn't so much about survival but it will be great if we can see the survival part - how they do and build stuffs. If they can't crammed it into the show, add an extended show on tv or YouTube. Also it will be great if they have an after-tap out or reunion show where they can discuss what and why they did it or did not do on the show and fans can ask them questions. 

Well, that's quite an essay. Did i just wrote a forum post or a book? lol

[Joan Z]

20 hours ago, LocimusPrime said:

This show needs major changes. Here are some suggestion 

• Allow different types of people. Since 90% of this game is mental, have some applicants such as solitary confinement prisoners, homeless people, monks, just people who are used to being alone mixed in with the usual crowd. 
• More action and less personal introspective junk. I'm tired of seeing them sit there complaining about being alone and missing their families ect. Duh that's what you signed up for. 
• Make first place 1 million and second place 500 k. 
• Allow them the ability/ right to kill any animal that they might encounter. 
• Try to encorporate more physical encounters either with animals or natives ( obviously that would mean changing locations ) 
• Allow for a second method of winning, you either outlast everyone or build some watercraft and make it to an location 300 miles off shore. No rescue team will be available. They will film you from helicopter. 
• You have the option of receiving 50 lbs of food, but there will be no rescue team for you. You are truly alone. 
• If the US producers will not allow the exclusion of rescue teams, change production to an overseas company where they are more lax. 
• Finally if two survivors are left and no one seems like they are going to tap, they have the right to challenge each other to hand to hand combat.  Same rules as MMA but no octagon. 
• Also you are allowed to travel as far as you want but not allowed to share resources or communicate with other competitors. However, you are allowed to destroy and loot another competitors camp. You would be allowed to set their stuff on fire ect, lead animals to their camps ect. 
• Contestents should also be allowed to booby trap their campsites for protection against wildlife and other competitors. 
• If you choose the food option in lieu of a rescue team and perish during the filming , all your worldly assets will automatically transfer to the winner of the games instead of your family. 

Now on that would be the best show in the world. 

That sounds like something from a novel or fantasy film 

[raven]

You all have mentioned it before but in A Deeper Cut why is the font so teeny and white?  I really like the contestant comments about whatever they're showing and it's really difficult to read.  We know they can do a bigger font that's not intrusive, why don't they do it for the side comments?  Ugh.

[Addicted]

The show is fine as is, they just need better editing and the contestants need to do their part too by filming more interesting stuff.

[raven]

Quote

The friend I watch the show with was homeless. For over a year. Living day to day on the banks of a river where he fished for his dinner. He survived with skills he wasn't taught, he just figured it out.

cooksdelight, sounds like your friend became a survivalist out of necessity.  On this show, people are living physically comfortably and/or doing the survival piece because they enjoy it, it's part of their lifestyle and their job.   For me personally, I don't want to see people who can't manage the basics; that level of struggle isn't watchable to me, so I would prefer people who have working knowledge and hearing the advanced knowledge is even better; Nicole's knowledge of plants, Jose building the kayak (it just went on too long), everything Lucas did last season, etc. 

Maybe some of the advanced types just want exposure for themselves or (Justin comes to mind) their causes.  

I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but Alan lasted the longest by hunkering down in a half cave and kind of shutting down.  When they told him he won he had the famous thousand yard stare.   As winter approaches, if they have shelter and no real ability to hunt, there's not much to do.  I suspect this is by design from the show because it's not supposed to be a how-to.   It's a psychological exercise but not as voyeuristic as Naked and Afraid (which I haven't watched in forever because I thought it was boring), people sitting and talking and snitting at each other isn't interesting to me.

 

edited: added quote so post would make sense

Edited July 10, 2016 by raven

[holly4755]

and I would not want to put people who are survivalists on streets in a land with animal predators. Too dangerous.

[cooksdelight]

My friend told me some of what he experienced, and why, and he constantly points out how easy these contestants have it. They have a phone call to get them out of there. He didn't. He thinks Jose and that boat was one of the stupidest things ever, a waste of time, but he's a showoff and he's there to be on TV. Period (his opinion). Some of the most ingenious and hardy people are the ones living hand to mouth on the streets. They come up with ways to survive that might astound us. 

[ClareWalks]

On the flip side, though, wouldn't it be cruel to put 10 homeless, starving people in this situation and only reward the one who can suffer the longest? 

[cooksdelight]

I don't think they'd suffer. I think they'd show us things we never thought of doing to eat, sleep and live.

[ClareWalks]

But if there was no suffering, they'd all last forever, and there'd be no winner and no show.

[jvr]

I get where you are coming from cooksdelight...but it sounds cruel. Subjecting them to this (even if they want to do it) for our entertainment and then I'm guessing all the contestants who lose go back to being homeless with not a second thought about them? It kind of reminds me of the book and movie plots of taking prisoners and having them fight to the death for our entertainment and the winner gets to go free. The closest I can see to having that concept (the homeless one, not the prisoners) is taking formerly homeless people and seeing what they can accomplish. In that case, the losers are going back to a life that isn't a constant battle to survive and we don't feel like cruel pieces of shit.

Anyway, I agree with those that the fixes to the show just need to be:

1. Editing: I want way more footage of these people setting up camp, foraging, surviving. Less manufactured drama. 
2. Contestants: I guess this goes hand and hand with the editing. If the contestants suck you won't have the footage you need to show us how they are doing. Jose and that fucking boat was unacceptable...but I think that was him and not the editors, I don't think he gave them anything else concerning his camp. Also not seeing him for like the first 3 eps was no bueno too. We also need people who are in this for the money first and foremost. If a contestant says anything about conquering nature or their demons move on to the next one. But I also want people who are skilled and imaginative and won't just crawl into a hole and wait it out.

Edited July 10, 2016 by jvr

[riverheightsnancy]

24 minutes ago, jvr said:

I get where you are coming from cooksdelight...but it sounds cruel. Subjecting them to this (even if they want to do it) for our entertainment and then I'm guessing all the contestants who lose go back to being homeless with not a second thought about them? It kind of reminds me of the book and movie plots of taking prisoners and having them fight to the death for our entertainment and the winner gets to go free. The closest I can see to having that concept (the homeless one, not the prisoners) is taking formerly homeless people and seeing what they can accomplish. In that case, the losers are going back to a life that isn't a constant battle to survive and we don't feel like cruel pieces of shit.

 

That reminds me of the uproar regarding the casting from Slumdog Millionaire. The little boys and girls featured in the movie were literally taken from the slums and exposed to all the wonderful things like hotels and nice places to sleep and getting regular food during the Oscars and the making of the film and then they were just dumped off back to the slums. People were pretty angry about their treatment. So, I could only imagine the uproar if people look like they are being taken advantage of for entertainment. There was a similar show a while back where they took a homeless person (I think it was homeless) and let them "discover" a briefcase with a lot of money in it and the show was about, what they did with it and how it helped an changed their lives. It was not as wonderful and life changing and enlightening as everyone hoped it would be for the people who discovered the money. 

[seasick]

3 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I don't think they'd suffer. I think they'd show us things we never thought of doing to eat, sleep and live.

That is a fantasy.  The homeless are very resourceful but they don't live/survive in the wilderness.  Let's get real, they are on the street corners and in front of stores begging for money, in the back of stores dumpster diving, and hitting up the employees at the back of restaurants for what they may discard at the end of the night.  Many get food stamps .    They are not surviving daily by laying by a river with a fishing line attached to their toe.   

[LocimusPrime]

On June 30, 2016 at 3:02 PM, Joan Z said:

That sounds like something from a novel or fantasy film 

Let's make it happen . It would be a winner . They got crazy shows like that overseas. Just google Russian or Japanese crazy reality shows. They have extreme concepts but are simply super cool x 100000000

[cooksdelight]

I didn't mean to cause an uproar, heavens no..... I am basing my thoughts on my formerly homeless friend who keeps telling me that people like him and others who were in the same situation could do this or that. It's why I love watching this show with him because he picks out all the stupid things the people do. He said he'd build a shelter first, but not expend as much energy as some of them since he knows he's not going to be there for a very long time. The fishing stuff Jose was trying, he said was just dumb. The crabs David was finding, he also said that he should have corralled some of them with a net and made a "farm" so they could multiply and have an endless supply of food. This coming from a guy who lived by a river and had no real fishing gear. He still managed to catch and eat trout. 

That's my real point, to find people who aren't trained survivalists as these people are, and see what happens.

Edited July 11, 2016 by cooksdelight

[muffkins]

I would not be interested in watching 10 homeless people if they were from the Vancouver Metro area.  A lot of the homeless here are addicts or mentally ill, and its not entertaining dealing with them in real life, so I have no desire to watch them on tv. 

[seasick]

16 hours ago, jvr said:

 

Anyway, I agree with those that the fixes to the show just need to be:

1. Editing: I want way more footage of these people setting up camp, foraging, surviving. Less manufactured drama. 
2. Contestants: I guess this goes hand and hand with the editing. If the contestants suck you won't have the footage you need to show us how they are doing. Jose and that fucking boat was unacceptable...but I think that was him and not the editors, I don't think he gave them anything else concerning his camp. Also not seeing him for like the first 3 eps was no bueno too. We also need people who are in this for the money first and foremost. If a contestant says anything about conquering nature or their demons move on to the next one. But I also want people who are skilled and imaginative and won't just crawl into a hole and wait it out.

I'm much on board with this.  

Further suggestions are that if a contestant isn't giving the footage of something they want (such as shots of their camp) they can tell them to film it.   They can communicate during the weekly checks or even thru the sat phone.  No excuses.   It can be done.  It's a TV show.

  I think it's too weird--almost creepy-- to look for desperation cases as some have suggested. I still don't think that would make them any more motivated for these hardships.  

But I don't agree we only need survival "experts".  Basic understanding about the threats of the wildlife and enough knowledge not to try to say --feed them or befriend them or some such is the biggest safety issue.  I don't know what other expertise that they all had that was essential to survival. Even knowing how to make friction fire, although they claimed was a requirement, is not necessary when, as one did in S1 you can just push the button. 

But I think QTPYE said it best for me in a post June 27 in "the madness"  and that was to want see people who try their best and give it their all.  

(Paraphrasing)  When you see accomplished survivalists tap out for flimsy reasons it's disappointing but also a little insulting.  If you see a world class runner tap-out of a marathon race half way thru 'just because' and claiming in so many words that 'winning' isn't why they are there or it's not worth the effort to push themselves  it's a 'punk move"--.(QTPYE)   

The kind of sincerity and drive needed in the contestants is hard to assess. BUT I agree with the above that reasons such as  'finding happiness'  or  'inner therapy for difficult life events' is likely not going to bring a serious contender.  Recruits who had no intention or made no effort to apply for the show --no.  Those in 'the business" should be avoided as well--- sorry but I cannot trust your motives.  --pass.  Even though they may have skills that are clever and fun to watch, (well, to a point) it is more satisfying to me to see people willing to work through wilderness survival hardships or even thrive! But don't tap the moment things aren't going your way.  That is the challenge.

Although Randy was a disappointment, his struggle was being alone.  Although I thought he had more pluck (and (frankly, maturity) than that,  I can accept it.  He fought through the loss of his fire rod. He tried hard to get past his loneliness.  

Justin and Mike had minor hardships if any, and just left.    Justin's climb to me was a way to salvage his pride by doing that as a 'challenge" but it wasn't 'this' challenge.   Put your causes on youtube.  THEY are the types I'd like to see avoided and I think they were both recruits and in the business.  

Nicole and Jose didn't face much physical hardship at all from what I saw up until now.  And now--(talks of )tapping.  I think if they had had more rain and cold and less abundance in food they would have missed their loved ones much sooner. 

[MostlyContent]

On 7/11/2016 at 10:10 AM, seasick said:

Nicole and Jose didn't face much physical hardship at all from what I saw up until now.  And now--(talks of )tapping.  I think if they had had more rain and cold and less abundance in food they would have missed their loved ones much sooner. 

I had a thought (or two) about this 'loved one' issue.  

Although this must be one of my favorite shows, and to me it's largely fine as it is, wouldn't it be interesting if they had to go to a Ponderosa (survivor) place once they tapped?  Then they'd have to stay there until someone won. I'll bet the 'loved ones tappers' would last a whole hell of a lot longer if they weren't just whisked off to love once they did decide to tap.  Perhaps the LOTs, aka loved one tappers, especially the skilled ones, might just decide they might as well stay there and keep competing rather than hanging out somewhere with the other tappers.  

I realize it's unrealistic because there's no firm end time, but it's fun to think about.   :)

[seasick]

28 minutes ago, MostlyContent said:

I had a thought (or two) about this 'loved one' issue.  

Although this must be one of my favorite shows, and to me it's largely fine as it is, wouldn't it be interesting if they had to go to a Ponderosa (survivor) place once they tapped?  Then they'd have to stay there until someone won. I'll bet the 'loved ones tappers' would last a whole hell of a lot longer if they weren't just whisked off to love once they did decide to tap.  Perhaps the LOTs, aka loved one tappers, especially the skilled ones, might just decide they might as well stay there and keep competing rather than hanging out somewhere with the other tappers.  

I realize it's unrealistic because there's no firm end time, but it's fun to think about.   :)

I don't know--I think the loved-ones come to mind when the other misery factors loom.  I don't think it's the major single factor for the LOT's  above and beyond  the other difficulties.   Put these guys in a warm place together with some endless grub, telling their survival stories and other experiences, throw in a deck of cards or something and they'd probably be content for months. especially since it would be a requirement (i.e no guilt)  I would exclude the women with children from that description though because they know their kids miss them.   I think once you've really 'had it'  out there that's it.  I think Mike *may* have stayed a little longer if Barbara wasn't going to be there waiting, but IMO he had no intention of handling any discomfort.  The moment he got a little bored and missed the comforts of home he split.  

[SRTouch]

46 minutes ago, MostlyContent said:

I had a thought (or two) about this 'loved one' issue.  

Although this must be one of my favorite shows, and to me it's largely fine as it is, wouldn't it be interesting if they had to go to a Ponderosa (survivor) place once they tapped?  Then they'd have to stay there until someone won. I'll bet the 'loved ones tappers' would last a whole hell of a lot longer if they weren't just whisked off to love once they did decide to tap.  Perhaps the LOTs, aka loved one tappers, especially the skilled ones, might just decide they might as well stay there and keep competing rather than hanging out somewhere with the other tappers.  

I realize it's unrealistic because there's no firm end time, but it's fun to think about.   :)

Hey, I like that idea. Production rents a resort with a enough rooms for the crew and all the contestants. When someone taps they get a room at the resort, but they remain incommunicado till it's over. Only way to go home early is by way of the hospital - I figure if someone is admitted they get to go home.

[SRTouch]

6 minutes ago, seasick said:

I don't know--I think the loved-ones come to mind when the other misery factors loom.  I don't think it's the major single factor for the LOT's  above and beyond  the other difficulties.   Put these guys in a warm place together with some endless grub, telling their survival stories and other experiences, throw in a deck of cards or something and they'd probably be content for months. especially since it would be a requirement (i.e no guilt)  I would exclude the women with children from that description though because they know their kids miss them.   I think once you've really 'had it'  out there that's it.  I think Mike *may* have stayed a little longer if Barbara wasn't going to be there waiting, but IMO he had no intention of handling any discomfort.  The moment he got a little bored and missed the comforts of home he split.  

Whoa, I think you've missed the boat there with that stereotype. I've been through several long deployments while in the Army, and I can assure you it tears up a young father to miss his baby's first steps, or to come home after 10 months and not be recognised by their toddlers. Guess part of the reason I don't have much sympathy for anyone who taps so they can go home to family after a couple months is that hundreds of thousands of military families have been separated for much longer periods. I understand that being alone with no one to interact may be tougher than deploying with team, but I'd rather hear them say they're going home to get KFC or a pizza than that they need to get home to the wife/husband and kids.

[seasick]

57 minutes ago, SRTouch said:

Whoa, I think you've missed the boat there with that stereotype. I've been through several long deployments while in the Army, and I can assure you it tears up a young father to miss his baby's first steps, or to come home after 10 months and not be recognised by their toddlers. Guess part of the reason I don't have much sympathy for anyone who taps so they can go home to family after a couple months is that hundreds of thousands of military families have been separated for much longer periods. I understand that being alone with no one to interact may be tougher than deploying with team, but I'd rather hear them say they're going home to get KFC or a pizza than that they need to get home to the wife/husband and kids.

Good point and I pretty much agree!  I was going to exclude Sam because he was getting a new first baby.  I know it tortured him and he may have won had it not been for that.  But I was mostly thinking in general about this group of men who had no real little ones.  Both MK and Nicole had young kids so I don't believe they'd be as content at the 'ponderosa'.

I hadn't really thought about the military families.    I also wanted to say that I would prefer they just admit they're really just hungry for something good to eat (KFC or whatever they crave) but used the 'loved one' excuse for brownie points with the wife and perhaps more sympathy from the audience,  but I thought I'd sound too cynical so I didn't.   I'm assuming your point is they should suck it up a little considering the military does it for longer periods and under greater threats with no prize ??  I would agree with that too.

[MostlyContent]

7 hours ago, seasick said:

I don't think it's the major single factor for the LOT's  above and beyond  the other difficulties.

I agree, totally.  The LOT's are (mostly) playing for the camera before tapping, as far as I'm concerned.  Last season I might give Sam and Lucas a pass, but if one was expecting a baby, or one's mom had terminal cancer....why the hell are you signing up for something that you *think* might last a year?  

 

6 hours ago, SRTouch said:

I understand that being alone with no one to interact may be tougher than deploying with team, but I'd rather hear them say they're going home to get KFC or a pizza than that they need to get home to the wife/husband and kids.

Exactly, especially since most of us (couch people lol) would rather hear the truth than some wha-wha excuse for tapping.   Hunger; I can understand and do not blame anyone for that.  The LOT's?  I don't buy it in the least.  The majority of them seem to be people who readily choose to be away from their families for a good proportion of the time anyway.   Like, "Oh, I'll become proficient in survival, and then I'll teach it", or "I'm a wilderness firefighter ".  

I would much rather hear, "I need a damn cheeseburger.  This challenge was too difficult for me", or "I thought this was going to be difficult, but it's not, so I'm tapping".  

As I said, I know it's not a likely scenario, but it would add an interesting component.  :)

Edited July 13, 2016 by MostlyContent

[cooksdelight]

I like the Ponderosa idea. And as I had mentioned in another thread, I couldn't believe Justin left given the fact he was in the military and had long deployments away from home and family. I was mad, actually, and felt like he let down the very people he was out there playing for. 

[riverheightsnancy]

2 hours ago, MostlyContent said:

I agree, totally.  The LOT's are (mostly) playing for the camera before tapping, as far as I'm concerned.  Last season I might give Sam and Lucas a pass, but if one was expecting a baby, or one's mom had terminal cancer....why the hell are you signing up for something that you *think* might last a year?  

That was Mitch, his mom had brain cancer. And I think he only found out right before leaving and she begged him to go. He was obviously very conflicted about it because it was a catalyst him his tap after he had been there for a while. It totally got into his head and he worried that she died or was at the end and he would't be there for her. (I do not know if they will or would interrupt a person's game for a family emergency. I think that they would, but we don't know for sure).  I see pregnancy in a similar way (as many things can go wrong, but for the most part is a positive event and something to look forward to), but Sam may have had more time to make the decision, Mitch didn't (that we were told about). I watched Mitch's home coming video with his mom and she did appear to be very ill. 

[cooksdelight]

Yes, I think they always interrupt in the case of a family emergency. If she were hospitialized and it didn't look good, they'd have told him and given him the option of leaving. They do it on Survivor all the time.

[seasick]

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

I like the Ponderosa idea. And as I had mentioned in another thread, I couldn't believe Justin left given the fact he was in the military and had long deployments away from home and family. I was mad, actually, and felt like he let down the very people he was out there playing for. 

Randy was the one who disappointed me the most. He seemed to have great potential.  He started on a sturdy log shelter and did not give up when he lost his ferro rod.  

I got red flags from Mike and Tracy right away.  Mike struck me as so immature from Ep 0 and Tracy's reason to be there seemed too depressive from the start.  I was impressed with her calm and confidence when she got to VI, but once I felt she just wanted a big audience for her 'inner demons' she lost me.  

Justin came off as cocky and spoiled to me.  Ever watch "Top Shot"?   Certain military classification types have insufferable egos and Justin was in that classification.  I thought he was cocky when showing the swing and gym-- (like 'this is a joke--I ain't concerned) and spoiled when having to move his camp was a huge annoyance he didn't want to bother with.  But Justin didn't claim his tap was due to missing loved ones.  He just claimed that he had better things to do.   But I think the point about letting down those he purportedly came to represent was a good one. 

I guess this belongs in the other thread--  sorry for the digression here.

[SRTouch]

10 hours ago, seasick said:

Good point and I pretty much agree!  I was going to exclude Sam because he was getting a new first baby.  I know it tortured him and he may have won had it not been for that.  But I was mostly thinking in general about this group of men who had no real little ones.  Both MK and Nicole had young kids so I don't believe they'd be as content at the 'ponderosa'.

I hadn't really thought about the military families.    I also wanted to say that I would prefer they just admit they're really just hungry for something good to eat (KFC or whatever they crave) but used the 'loved one' excuse for brownie points with the wife and perhaps more sympathy from the audience,  but I thought I'd sound too cynical so I didn't.   I'm assuming your point is they should suck it up a little considering the military does it for longer periods and under greater threats with no prize ??  I would agree with that too.

Yeah, it's one of my buttons when people act like they're enduring some major hardship, yet the "hardship" is something fairly common for folks in the military or elsewhere in the world. As others said, all these guys volunteered for this, some maybe recruited, but others actually competed for a slot to spend an indefinite period alone in the woods. I totally understand getting emotional when you miss an bd, anniverary, etc as I've been far from home on those type of occasions with no way to communicate. I suppose that a lot of soldiers would tap out and go home if they could, but they can't, so they stay and do their job. It bothers me when people tap and say it's because they miss family, when missing family should be a given and something to be expected.

Ok, I've decided to blame on the editors. Truth is that the contestants all gave a 5 minutes speech detailing how hunger, food gravings, the weather, evil minks and or seals, humongous bears rummaging in camp, and, oh yeah,  I'm missing my wifey, all contributed to the tap out. And then the dastardly editors did their magic in post production and all that remains is "I'm going home... I miss my Barbara".

[seasick]

15 minutes ago, SRTouch said:

Yeah, it's one of my buttons when people act like they're enduring some major hardship, yet the "hardship" is something fairly common for folks in the military or elsewhere in the world. As others said, all these guys volunteered for this, some maybe recruited, but others actually competed for a slot to spend an indefinite period alone in the woods. I totally understand getting emotional when you miss an bd, anniverary, etc as I've been far from home on those type of occasions with no way to communicate. I suppose that a lot of soldiers would tap out and go home if they could, but they can't, so they stay and do their job. It bothers me when people tap and say it's because they miss family, when missing family should be a given and something to be expected.

Ok, I've decided to blame on the editors. Truth is that the contestants all gave a 5 minutes speech detailing how hunger, food gravings, the weather, evil minks and or seals, humongous bears rummaging in camp, and, oh yeah,  I'm missing my wifey, all contributed to the tap out. And then the dastardly editors did their magic in post production and all that remains is "I'm going home... I miss my Barbara".

Well that really sucks!!  Well right from the start I thought some of their portrayals and choices were insulting.  Mostly after taking the time and effort to film everything as requested, they showed some of the most useless footage. I was specifically annoyed that the first David footage was him staring into the camera (angry face) because I'm sure there was far more to his two weeks there.   A moment of goofing around began to characterize him, and there was so much else I would rather have seen in that 45 seconds.   I got mad for me and him.  

I suspected that much of the "but your were not there--it's so much harder than you think" cries were really a veiled comment about 'all you didn't see" editing,   but I could understand them not going there. 

If nothing else I think their tap-out speech should be honored as is.   More fair to everyone.   

I enjoy playing in the forum but this does put a damper believing what I'm thinking (and seeing).  Unfortunately it's all we have to go by!   But I will keep a disclaimer present.  Besides I do think most of us are on board with taking our  'opinions from the couch' with a grain of salt.  

[humbleopinion]

IMHO, Mike didn't miss Barb as much as he was fearful that she didn't miss him.

His continuing childhood fear of abandonment, insecurity and his inability to reassure himself by being with her is what made him tap out.

The editors were too heavy handed, manipulated and yanked our chain too much this season.

The teases were the worst, I demand to see the who set up the camera that the wolf jumped on.

Thinking it was editors...stop ruining a once good show.

[cooksdelight]

I'm betting Barbara made Mike sleep on the sofa after he quit and came home.

Edited July 13, 2016 by cooksdelight

[humbleopinion]

Hoping she was on a cruise with gal pals and couldn't be reached by needy Mike until she docked a week or two later.

Fuming because he wussed out so early.

[MostlyContent]

8 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

That was Mitch, his mom had brain cancer. And I think he only found out right before leaving and she begged him to go. He was obviously very conflicted about it because it was a catalyst him his tap after he had been there for a while. It totally got into his head and he worried that she died or was at the end and he would't be there for her. (I do not know if they will or would interrupt a person's game for a family emergency. I think that they would, but we don't know for sure).  I see pregnancy in a similar way (as many things can go wrong, but for the most part is a positive event and something to look forward to), but Sam may have had more time to make the decision, Mitch didn't (that we were told about). I watched Mitch's home coming video with his mom and she did appear to be very ill. 

Ah yes.  Thank you for reminding me about that situation.  :)  

Mitch is off the LOT list.