S03.E09: Blade on the Feather

[HalcyonDays]

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Episode synopsis: Benedict Arnold plots to turn over West Point to the British. Andre negotiates for Peggy. Abe plots revolt in Setauket.

[ComeWhatMay]

Hollywood History this may be, but it still looks like curtains for Andre. Sexy bastard he is & I'm sad. I see why Ben would sympathize with Andre too. They have a lot in common down to their broken hearts. 

Ben's anger & disgust with Arnold, who his late brother served under, culminating in that pants wetting, f*** you shot was well done by Numrich. 

Washington's reaction, down to the flushed cheeks, was equally powerful to Ben's in its moderation. 

Hewlett ratting out Abe in the throes of self-pity -- "Oyster Major" got played -- isn't admirable, but it is understandable to me. Abe is the one who put Anna in the position to obliterate his heart. Hewlett fell on his sword for a woman who never loved him. Andre was willing to toss it all for Peggy & steadfast & loyal Ben was willing to let the late Sarah go free to fight another day for the other side, but Sarah wouldn't let him. Abe's a two-timing twerp. 

I hope Rodgers is toast. Abe & Dick Woodhull could both bite it too & I would be fine. I would send Simcoe's good twin to Canada when he comes to collect his evil twin's body. 

I would like to see us win the war so I will hope it's just the season finale like the preview says. 

[LittleIggy]

Could they please just kill Simcoe? Every time I hear his high-pitched, poncey voice, I want to scream. He was fun for awhile, but his shtick has grown old. How could he get away with treating a regular Royal Army officer the way he did tonight. If I were a descendant of the historical Simcoe, I would be really pissed off at this portrayal.

Abe must be the most hapless, inept motherf*cker ever. ::sigh::

[BusyOctober]

Dear God, PLEEEZE let's move this along in the final episode! Capture Arnold, jail Andre, boot Peggy back to her parents, let Rogers get away and go West, give Abe's dick of a dad a fatal heart attack, and even though I know the real Simcoe lives to move on to Canada, I would love for a history rewrite. Let's have him shot and killed. Not a slow, drawn out dramatic death for revenge sake.  Stand him up, fire the gun, he drops dead and I never have to hear that whiny nasal voice again.

At least some real action is finally happening with Arnold being discovered. Now that the blinders have fallen from Washington's eyes he can be a little more hard-ass and open to strategic input from others.  I would like Peggy to suffer a little more just because I don't like the character.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this episode a lot, there was finally a lot of action.  Arnold is an arrogant and greedy blowhard, and I'm still wondering why Peggy chose him over Andre.  I am still really tired of Simcoe and his voice and I am wondering why everyone in town puts up with him.  Especially the older British officer that he clocked on the head.

When Arnold told Peggy that he was going to turn West Point over to the British and obtain a British command, why did she look so aghast?  Didn't we see a few episodes ago that she was the one that planted the seed in his head that he should obtain what should be his?  This series has made her out to be one of the main fomenters of his betrayal.  If that's the case, then why was she so shocked and surprised?

 So it looks like Andre and Abe are both possibly toast next episode.  I'd be sad to lose Andre.  Abe not so much.  Actually, most of these characters could die and I wouldn't care.  I do like Anna and Caleb and their friendship.  I'm indifferent about Ben.  Seems like many think the actor walks on water but I find him very bland and boring.

[AllisonH]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

When Arnold told Peggy that he was going to turn West Point over to the British and obtain a British command, why did she look so aghast?  Didn't we see a few episodes ago that she was the one that planted the seed in his head that he should obtain what should be his?  This series has made her out to be one of the main fomenters of his betrayal.  If that's the case, then why was she so shocked and surprised?

It seemed to me that her shock was hearing that Andre was at West Point, not that Arnold was moving forward with his betrayal.

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, AllisonH said:

It seemed to me that her shock was hearing that Andre was at West Point, not that Arnold was moving forward with his betrayal.

Ah, that makes sense.  Arnold is a dolt, he can't even see the signs that his wife is infatuated with Andre.  Then when he came back and said that Andre was captured and they were ruined.  She's all "OMG, what will happen to him, will he be hanged?!" and he's all "forget about him. you should worry about us!"

Why didn't Ben try harder to capture Arnold?  He shot once but I couldn't tell if he purposely missed.  But he didn't try again, he lowered his gun.  Why let him get away?  Arnold betrayed the country, why was Ben still loyal to him?

[AllisonH]

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Why didn't Ben try harder to capture Arnold?  He shot once but I couldn't tell if he purposely missed.  But he didn't try again, he lowered his gun.  Why let him get away?  Arnold betrayed the country, why was Ben still loyal to him?

Alexander Rose posted about this in the Turn subreddit.  I don't know if we're permitted to link to Reddit here, but essentially, Rose said they shot two endings: one with Ben firing his gun, and one not.  In the end, they decided Ben's sense of honor compelled him to fire, but there was definitely an internal struggle.

[Kabota]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

Why didn't Ben try harder to capture Arnold?  He shot once but I couldn't tell if he purposely missed.  But he didn't try again, he lowered his gun.  Why let him get away?  Arnold betrayed the country, why was Ben still loyal to him?

 

1 hour ago, AllisonH said:

Alexander Rose posted about this in the Turn subreddit.  I don't know if we're permitted to link to Reddit here, but essentially, Rose said they shot two endings: one with Ben firing his gun, and one not.  In the end, they decided Ben's sense of honor compelled him to fire, but there was definitely an internal struggle.

Rose posts over there, not infrequently, and also says they hoped it was clear to the audience that Arnold was actually giving Ben the shot. Conscience, regret, etc. had Arnold at that moment, and Ben is thinking that to kill him now would be too easy -- that Arnold is in a hell of his own making, and living and suffering through it is the best punishment. 

Rose also tweeted about this scene directly after the show, so the writers obviously knew and expected it could be misinterpreted or questioned. Knowing how everything was supposed to go down, and expecting some truth stretching and outright fiction (looking at you, Robert Rogers), I have to say that this was the only scene that kind of threw me. I wasn't expecting it at all, but thought is was so charged and epic. Arnold all in white, no red or blue, really forever adrift without a country, saluting his former comrade...that was quite the image. 

[TV Anonymous]

Moderator, can the episode title be corrected? I believe it is Blade on the Feather, meaning to put the oars parallel to the water.

The depiction of Capt. Simcoe really stretches my suspension of disbelief. Really, a British Army officer could do whatever he did with impunity? Killing innocent civilians willy-nilly without any just cause, manhandling fellow officers, superior officer, even. Was British Army really that undisciplined?

Edited June 22, 2016 by TV Anonymous

[ketose]

My loyalty is to the American side in this thing, but I was rooting for Hewlett when he revealed Woodhull was Culper. Especially since it was kind of an FU to Andre. Andre had the man over at his home and spent all this time trying to find Woodhull and Hewlett, a man Andre could not care less about, was able to deliver the biggest puzzle in Revolutionary War espionage. However, Andre has to die now because no one can know Abe is Culper.

So, Rogers essentially foiled the West Point plot according to the show. I'm not sure how next week is going to be just a season finale given certain historical realities.

[Arkay]

I am enjoying this show immensely. As a fan of the Revolutionary period, I have read several fine books about Arnold. As do many of us, I know which parts of Andre's capture, Arnold's betrayal and so on is fictionalized here for TV's sake, and which parts are factual. I don't want to "spoil" anything hundreds of years after the fact for those who don't know the fact from the fiction, but I would put it at 75-25% in favor of fact. One thing I recall reading was that the betrayal by Arnold actually caused Washington visible distress which he had very rarely, if ever, displayed previously. I think the actor's portrayal was nicely done. Soon they will rush upstairs.....

The outcome for Andre, Arnold, Jameson, Peggy etc. should be revealed next week, but I genuinely hope this show continues next season. One reason why I enjoy the show is that even though the historical facts are known, and the outcome of the war is no surprise, I still feel some suspense while watching. 

I should be more interested in Abe but I find his role to be the weakest portrayal on the show. 

[HalcyonDays]

4 hours ago, AllisonH said:

Alexander Rose posted about this in the Turn subreddit.  I don't know if we're permitted to link to Reddit here, but essentially, Rose said they shot two endings: one with Ben firing his gun, and one not.  In the end, they decided Ben's sense of honor compelled him to fire, but there was definitely an internal struggle.

Yup, you can go ahead and link to those interviews, if you like. Actually, I found it. Here it is. Very interesting.

In fact, if you click on Alexander Rose's handle [TurnWriter], you can see a nice list of what he's written/answered/commented about the show. Some good stuff.

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Moderator, can the episode title be corrected? I believe it is Blade on the Feather, meaning to put the oars parallel to the water.

Yup. Shall do. The original episode title where I get my episode synopses had "Father", not "Feather".

______________________________

Good episode actually. It helped that I read about Arnold and Andre last week. I wonder if the show writers read the same Wikipedia pages I did to write this episode. Still, it was really good. Arnold and Andre meeting, Andre being caught, Hewett going to Andre (and his FU attitude), and everything Tallmadge.

I wasn't a fan of Robert Rogers being there at Andre's capture and didn't like the whole "Give me Peggy" negotiation. And damn you, Abe. Just stop. Really. He just can't "spy" well. But glad he clocked Simcoe - someone needs to beat the crap out of Simcoe. I wish Abe would consider clocking his father at some point too.

Simcoe unfortunately has become a violent cartoon of a character and just plain stupid. Why NOT consider Rogers left Setauket? His 'burn the town" attitude is just not normal and counterproductive. Mary was the only one to have it right.

Overall though, really enjoyed it and looking forward to next week!

[Haleth]

Poor John Andre.  If he had only kept on that lovely red coat...

10 hours ago, Kabota said:

Arnold all in white, no red or blue, really forever adrift without a country, saluting his former comrade...that was quite the image. 

Adrift in the middle of the river.  Nice metaphor.

[pasdetrois]

I've been bored with this series lately, but this was a cracking good episode with a lot of action.

If we have to watch Andre hang I'll take to my fainting couch. I adore the character and the actor; nobody wears those British threads and little ponytail better. Although in his disguise he did look like he stepped out of a toney garden catalogue.

I liked the little moment where Arnold commented that Washington had powdered his wig. Gentlemen officers' fashion and protocol.

The blade-feathering scene: fantastic. As I watched I thought that Arnold wanted death and Ben wanted to kill him, but both wondered if the gun had enough range. It was truly a cliffhanger. Did Ben purposely wing Arnold in the arm? I saw a bloody spot on his snowy white linen.

Did we see Peggy and Arnold marry in a previous episode?

Were a traitor to get caught today the air would be blue with profanity. I giggled a little at Arnold's frazzled-but-gentlemanly "Peggy we are undone!"

Edited June 22, 2016 by pasdetrois

[ZoqFotPik]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Did we see Peggy and Arnold marry in a previous episode?

Yes. They were married at the end of the previous episode.

 I too hope there is another season, however with most of the plots seemly coming to a head next week and historical realities, I'm not sure where else they could go.

[AllisonH]

1 hour ago, ZoqFotPik said:

 I too hope there is another season, however with most of the plots seemly coming to a head next week and historical realities, I'm not sure where else they could go.

It does seem like a good place to end the current story, and I can see why AMC might consider doing so.  If we do get a Season 4 (and I hope we do!), the focus may need to move off Abe and the Culper Ring, and develop other players among "Washington's Spies" where there's a lot more ground to cover (Hercules Mulligan, Daniel Bissell, the attempts to re-capture Arnold, etc.).  Or they could keep the focus on Setauket, and re-work history a bit to insert the Culper ring into those events (Fort St. George for example).  They could also tap into the supposed connection between Abe and the historical British officer who succeeded Andre as head of British intelligence.

Either way is fine with me, so long as Caleb's there.

[EyewatchTV211]

I tweeted this question to Alexander Rose last night - "Did Ben let Arnold escape or was he already too far anyway, and he just shot at him to send a message?"

His response - "He tried his best to hit or wing him but Arnold was slightly out of range. That's my view, anyway."

Clearly, the show didn't do a good job making this scene clear to us viewers.

[HalcyonDays]

1 hour ago, VMepicgrl said:

I tweeted this question to Alexander Rose last night - "Did Ben let Arnold escape or was he already too far anyway, and he just shot at him to send a message?"

His response - "He tried his best to hit or wing him but Arnold was slightly out of range. That's my view, anyway."

Clearly, the show didn't do a good job making this scene clear to us viewers.

Honestly, knowing how inaccurate those flintlock pistols could be (assuming barrel was smoothbore), I actually expected one of the rowers to have been shot and not surprised he missed.

It was a great scene though.

[Kabota]

14 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

I tweeted this question to Alexander Rose last night - "Did Ben let Arnold escape or was he already too far anyway, and he just shot at him to send a message?"

His response - "He tried his best to hit or wing him but Arnold was slightly out of range. That's my view, anyway."

Clearly, the show didn't do a good job making this scene clear to us viewers.

 

12 hours ago, HalcyonDays said:

Honestly, knowing how inaccurate those flintlock pistols could be (assuming barrel was smoothbore), I actually expected one of the rowers to have been shot and not surprised he missed.

It was a great scene though.

Yes, the boat certainly should've appeared to be a greater distance from the shore than it looked to be, especially since we've been given to believe that Ben is a good shot. Obviously, Ben is not going to injure/kill Benedict in his escape -- that's a historical point they'd choose not to cross. The scene is purely for metaphor, foreshadowing, and characterization purposes, so the fact that it's unclear as to Ben's motivation makes it less than 100%. I still thought it was arresting and powerful, and will add Rose's take to my head canon.

 

During the first airing of this episode, I was caught up in all the little things that were not historically accurate. Having waited basically the entire series to see these events unfold, I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it was easy to get caught up in all the, "He wasn't there!" and "Jameson was not a continental regular -- he was a dragoon, damnit!" I watched the second airing having gotten all that out of my system, and really felt that they did a very good job of highlighting the key events and personalities in ways which rang true, despite the changes. I still don't think Rogers' intervention was necessary, and I wish they would've spent 3 episodes on this storyline, instead of 2. On the other hand, that might have upset the pacing, which definitely created tension and anticipation, despite the fact that most of the audience knew where things were heading. Looking forward to the finish next week!

Edited June 23, 2016 by Kabota

[bmoore4026]

My big beef is that Robert Rogers was nowhere fucking near where John Andre was captured.  They did get the part right where the men that caught Andre were a bunch of yahoo hoosiers that would probably have killed him after robbing him had they not found the West Point plans and not valiant patriots.

Poor Ben, though :(

[millennium]

On 6/21/2016 at 10:59 PM, Arkay said:

I am enjoying this show immensely. As a fan of the Revolutionary period, I have read several fine books about Arnold. As do many of us, I know which parts of Andre's capture, Arnold's betrayal and so on is fictionalized here for TV's sake, and which parts are factual. I don't want to "spoil" anything hundreds of years after the fact for those who don't know the fact from the fiction, but I would put it at 75-25% in favor of fact. One thing I recall reading was that the betrayal by Arnold actually caused Washington visible distress which he had very rarely, if ever, displayed previously. I think the actor's portrayal was nicely done. Soon they will rush upstairs.....

 

I find it humorously ironic that in a show depicting the fight for liberty, the writers should take so many.

 

I have read in the past of Andre's capture, Arnold's flight and of course Andre's execution.   Certainly not as much as you have, but it is my recollection that Washington was not at West Point when Arnold's treachery was discovered.   He repaired there immediately upon receiving the news only to find Arnold already long gone.    Also, Andre was captured at night by a couple locals from Tarrytown (their deed is commemorated by a monument there).    And he was taken and held captive for several days at a remote cabin many miles from West Point.   

No one witnessed Arnold's escape either, much less took a shot at him (although it did make for good drama).[/spoiler]I

In any event, I thought the episode was very well done.   I especially enjoyed seeing the great chain across the Hudson, even if it was CGI.   It is the first time I have ever seen it depicted on film.   Surviving links from that chain can be seen at West Point to this very day.

Edited June 30, 2016 by millennium

[Raja]

On 6/27/2016 at 0:28 PM, bmoore4026 said:

My big beef is that Robert Rogers was nowhere fucking near where John Andre was captured.  They did get the part right where the men that caught Andre were a bunch of yahoo hoosiers that would probably have killed him after robbing him had they not found the West Point plans and not valiant patriots.

Poor Ben, though :(

I wonder if he was included in such a prominent role the series just for this scene

[bmoore4026]

5 hours ago, Raja said:

I wonder if he was included in such a prominent role the series just for this scene

Well, he had a big role in the whole Benedict Arnold betrayal, so I think the producers had to build him up to make what happens to him have even more of an impact.

[call me ishmael]

On June 27, 2016 at 0:28 PM, bmoore4026 said:

My big beef is that Robert Rogers was nowhere fucking near where John Andre was captured.  They did get the part right where the men that caught Andre were a bunch of yahoo hoosiers that would probably have killed him after robbing him had they not found the West Point plans and not valiant patriots.

Poor Ben, though :(

Of course it was because of Benjamin Tallmadge repeating Andre's story that we think that the guys who captured Andre would have simply shaken him down if they could have.