Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[whateverdgaf]

How is he keeping the war going? By not surrendering to a woman who he knows nothing about except for the fact she is descended from madmen and has an army of Iron Islander and Dothraki? Or by ending the siege at Riverun as peacefully and with little bloodshed as possible?

Secondly, how was Jaime meant to know Joffrey was going to turn out the way he did? Even when Joffrey was in power he spent the marjority of time in chains and powerless, so he can't be blamed for Joffrey's actions.

And you say that Jaime never showed any love for his children on screen, he spent the entirety of season 5 trying to rescue Myrcella and he was devestated at her death. And it was clear in his interactions with Tommen that he cared for him deeply, like at Myrcella's corpse.

As for starting the war, that was started by the actions of many.

Jaime's a grey character, he's done shitty things but he has also done selfless things. Killing Jory was dickish but it was also to protect his brother. Many of the characters who are wideley accepted as good would have done exactly the same if their loved ones were threatened. Jon and Arya both killed children so they aren't above such things and even the honourable Ned Stark helped start a war because of his sister, father and brother. And Ned never saved half as many lives as Jaime.

So to say Jaime is consistently doing shitty things, well no, he isn't. He began the season doing shitty things; to protect his family, but he's also preventing battles and the bloodshed of many. Even in season one when he was captured he gave Robb the same offer Jon gave Ramsay, to fight the battle one on one. He may have made that offer because he knew he would win, but the fact reamins that in doing so he gave Robb the chance to fight his battle on his own without dragging the smallfolk and others into it.

And again, considering the information Jaime knows about Dany, fighting against her is pretty damn reasonable. Cersei may be mad, but the soldiers supporting her are under his control and Cersei doesn't have three dragons and two armies made up of Iron Islanders and Dothraki.

[SeanC]

On 11/8/2016 at 0:44 PM, ElizaD said:

Grey Worm's absence makes me agree with the speculation that he dies, but it's curious that there haven't been any spoilers about it. If Grey Worm died in the ambush, surely it would be mentioned in the detailed description above. Perhaps he dies in the 7x02 sea battle with two of the Sand Snakes: if he was still around for Jon's arrival there should have been a mention of him in the leaks and IIRC he hasn't been spotted during Dragonstone or dragonpit filming.

It looks like the Tarlys are the only Team Cersei characters that Dany gets to kill, after she's already lost Yara, the Sands, Olenna and Grey Worm.

The spoiler information isn't comprehensive, and the leaker appears to lose track of minor characters on occasion (e.g., he forgot that Brienne was at the Dragonpit initially).

Team Cersei isn't that big to begin with (by season's end it's just her, Qyburn and the Mountain), whereas Team Dany is packed full of minor characters the writers are probably happy to purge.  Though did the spoilers actually say Yara dies?  I thought it was just that she gets captured, though that's hardly a bright sign for her.

Speaking of Team Cersei, one thing I really have to wonder is:  what's the endgame importance of reviving Gregor Clegane?  The whole trial by combat thing isn't happening in the show, unlike the books.  He really hasn't done anything notable since he came back.

Edited November 9, 2016 by SeanC

[Minneapple]

I don't care if Jaime is good or bad or grey. I think he's a dumbass mostly. But whatever. If Cersei killing everyone and her actions leading to Tommen's death aren't enough for Jaime to say "fuck this," then fuck him.

[whateverdgaf]

Normally it would be enough, but just saying 'fuck this' would leave Cersei alone to use her power as she likes, and leaving the country in the hands of a woman he knows nothing about except for being descended from Targaryens, having three dragons and has allied herself with people known to be dangerous and untrustworthy.

[Eyes High]

More news from WOTW:

1. At least two eventful scenes will be set in or around Casterly Rock and Highgarden. The latter's no surprise, but the former is indeed new information, since that wasn't mentioned in the leaks. (I do recall something about Tyrion planning an attack on Casterly Rock but I don't remember seeing anything about it coming to fruition: "Tyrion plans an attack on Casterly Rock involving a secret sewer entrance he used to use to sneak whores into the castle.")

I'm not sure when Tyrion is going to have time to plan an elaborate attack on Casterly Rock, much less carry it out, in between landing at Dragonstone with Dany (Ep 1), receiving Jon and convincing Dany that Jon's not crazy (Eps 3-4?), accompanying Dany to her ambush (Ep 4?), going on the KL caper with Davos (Ep 5), and confronting Cersei at the dragonpit (Ep 7), but he does have some "free time" for lack of a better word in Episode 6 when everyone else on Team Jon/Dany goes on the wight hunt, and if the wight team can make it beyond the Wall and back within the space of an episode, maybe he can get to Casterly Rock and back within the same time frame.

If prostitutes are somehow involved in smuggling the attacking forces in, that would explain that casting call for a "lovely lady" prostitute character (nudity required) with a fair bit of dialogue. On the other hand, that character's race was not specified.

2. The ambush sequence will be filmed at El Barrueco de Arriba in Los Barruecos, not Las Brenas as previously believed. (There will be shooting at Las Brenas, but it will only take a few days.) A smoke machine will be used.

El Barrueco de Arriba is an area around a northern lake. The 4chan guy made noises about Jaime getting knocked into the water by Bronn.

3. James Faulkner is training to ride a horse. The extras are also being trained in horse riding and military protocol.

4. Filming at Trujillo Castle is scheduled for November 14th to 16th. Filming at Las Brenas starts on November 17th and is scheduled to continue for a couple of days. Filming at Los Barruecos starts on November 19th.

Interestingly, another fansite, Wiki of Thrones, which mostly seems to crib content from WIC.net and WOTW, posted the following "exclusive Season 7 spoilers" today:

1. The production team built a new throne room for Dany (for her Dragonstone base) over the past two weeks. [Plausible enough, but why so late? Wouldn't they have done a lot of that filming already before moving to Spain?]

2. Iain Glen was filming two days ago in Belfast with face and body covered in greyscale. [Also plausible, since Jorah has a storyline apart from the main cast currently in Spain, and Iain Glen hasn't been photographed in Spain in the last few days.]

3. Sansa is pregnant with Ramsay's baby and gives birth to a baby boy in the last scene of the GOT Season 7 finale.

Wiki of Thrones has never to my knowledge claimed to have exclusive inside info before, apart from a first person video of the Winterfell courtyard set filmed a few months before it was posted, so there's really no frame of reference here. They did post a video from the Winterfell exterior set. My best bet, given the improbability of Sansa giving birth as the last scene and the presence of the leaker's info which would seem to confirm another last scene, is that the "source" is having a bit of fun at the website's expense, since the "Sansa is pregnant" theory continues to be popular and would form an attractive basis for a foiler. This really does sound like a foiler, and if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, etc. etc.

Still...at the risk of succumbing to confirmation bias...having Cersei and Sansa have dual pregnancies in one season, with one (according to the leaker) ending in miscarriage and the other ending in a live birth, seems like the sort of thing D&D would do. There are also gaps in the leaker's information, admittedly minor ones (nothing about Tycho Nestoris' return or Casterly Rock as a setting). We also know of at least one scene involving Maester Wolkan, the maester at Winterfell, possibly with Littlefinger (they were snapped in costume at the same time). According to the leaker, Sam and Gilly leave for Winterfell in Episode 5. They might be handy people to have around if Sansa theoretically goes into labour, although a maester would be preferable to someone who's only read about labour. (If Sam does help Sansa birth her baby, that would be an impressive callback to "Who's going to deliver a baby, you?") If Sansa really is pregnant with Ramsay's rape baby, I'm surprised she waits until 7x07 as the leaker says to decide she's going to have LF killed.

Oh, well. It wouldn't be the first time I was suckered by a foiler. This season has been full of leaks, though, so I don't know what to believe.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Eyes High

[anamika]

Those spoilers about Sansa getting pregnant are total shit. Discredits the whole thing. There has been a whole season after Sansa escaped, in which time tons of things have passed including Dany and Arya getting to Westeros. Plus there is no point to a Sansa pregnancy or a Ramsay baby. Cersei's pregnancy maybe there to justify Jaime's continued support for her (However dumb that sounds) after she massacres hundreds of innocent people.

Though I do wonder what Sansa's story is next season. We have heard nothing of what she will be doing for 4 episodes while LF is manipulating Arya and Bran is figuring out Jon's parentage. Other than having reunions with Bran and Arya of course.

Edited November 10, 2016 by anamika

[SimoneS]

8 hours ago, SeanC said:

Though did the spoilers actually say Yara dies?  I thought it was just that she gets captured, though that's hardly a bright sign for her.

I hope that she is captured because that would mean that there is hope for her survival. I have no doubt that there will Ironborn sick of Euron who would help her escape.

Edited November 10, 2016 by SimoneS

[bunnyblue]

5 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I'm not sure when Tyrion is going to have time to plan an elaborate attack on Casterly Rock, much less carry it out, in between landing at Dragonstone with Dany (Ep 1), receiving Jon and convincing Dany that Jon's not crazy (Eps 3-4?), accompanying Dany to her ambush (Ep 4?), going on the KL caper with Davos (Ep 5), and confronting Cersei at the dragonpit (Ep 7), but he does have some "free time" for lack of a better word in Episode 6 when everyone else on Team Jon/Dany goes on the wight hunt, and if the wight team can make it beyond the Wall and back within the space of an episode, maybe he can get to Casterly Rock and back within the same time frame.

I suppose if Tyrion does carry out an attack on Casterly Rock, episode 6 would be the time to do it since Dany and Jon will be occupied elsewhere and I don't think the wight hunt episode will be solely dedicated to that. But I don't know what the point is for attacking Casterly Rock. I don't think Cersei's even there since an episode later they're all meeting in the Dragonpit. And what exactly does Casterly Rock have to offer? 

Gods, not another Sansa pregnant foiler. It's all because of that line "I'm a part of you now", isn't it? JFC, what is it with people wanting her to be saddled with a rape baby? And how the hell is Jorah covered from head to toe in greyscale yet by episode 5-ish he's looking fresh as a daisy? That's a hell of fast acting cure. 

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Those spoilers about Sansa getting pregnant are total shit. Discredits the whole thing. There has been a whole season after Sansa escaped, in which time tons of things have passed including Dany and Arya getting to Westeros. Plus there is no point to a Sansa pregnancy or a Ramsay baby. Cersei's pregnancy maybe there to justify Jaime's continued support for her (However dumb that sounds) after she massacres hundreds of innocent people.

Though I do wonder what Sansa's story is next season. We have heard nothing of what she will be doing for 4 episodes while LF is manipulating Arya and Bran is figuring out Jon's parentage. Other than having reunions with Bran and Arya of course.

That's part of what's making me wonder. If the leaker is correct, Sansa's storyline as is seems kind of thin: conflict with Jon fizzles out when he leaves her in charge of Winterfell, LF tries to stir up drama between Sansa and Arya and fails, Sansa has Arya execute LF, boom. Maisie Williams described Season 7 as "heartbreaking," which doesn't reflect either the leaker's Winterfell storyline or the Season 7 storylines in general, so unless she was trolling in a big way, there's something off there.

As for there being no point to a Sansa pregnancy, the only possible reason is if Sansa gets pregnant and bears a child under what I imagine would have to be different circumstances in the books. If Sansa somehow gets pregnant and has a baby later on in the book storyline that was scrapped to make way for Ramsaygate in the show, then in the show they would need a baby daddy for Sansa as well. There's no indication in the Vale storyline that Sansa's going to get knocked up anytime soon, though.

26 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

I suppose if Tyrion does carry out an attack on Casterly Rock, episode 6 would be the time to do it since Dany and Jon will be occupied elsewhere and I don't think the wight hunt episode will be solely dedicated to that. But I don't know what the point is for attacking Casterly Rock. I don't think Cersei's even there since an episode later they're all meeting in the Dragonpit. And what exactly does Casterly Rock have to offer? 

Some posters on WOTW have suggested that Euron will use Casterly Rock as a base of operations with Cersei's blessing. I can't see Cersei skipping off to Casterly Rock while Dany is sitting around with her dragons poised to take the city the moment she gets the opportunity to do so.

Quote

Gods, not another Sansa pregnant foiler. It's all because of that line "I'm a part of you now", isn't it? JFC, what is it with people wanting her to be saddled with a rape baby?

They think she hasn't suffered enough, I guess. Being forced to bear her rapist's child would be topping out the misery meter, though. That's cruel even for this show. 

Edited November 10, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Though I do wonder what Sansa's story is next season. We have heard nothing of what she will be doing for 4 episodes while LF is manipulating Arya and Bran is figuring out Jon's parentage. Other than having reunions with Bran and Arya of course.

I imagine Baelish will be trying to feed mutual antagonism between the sisters.  I agree it seems lacking in detail, though.

Edited November 10, 2016 by SeanC

[bunnyblue]

30 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

That's part of what's making me wonder. If the leaker is correct, Sansa's storyline as is seems kind of thin: conflict with Jon fizzles out when he leaves her in charge of Winterfell, LF tries to stir up drama between Sansa and Arya and fails, Sansa has Arya execute LF, boom. 

Sansa's storyline does seem bit thin but I don't find that surprising since the happenings at Winterfell seem to be low on the totem pole of S7. There's just too much happening in the South for there to be much focus on Sansa. But she should still be busy. Episode 1 & 2 is the dealings with the Umber and Karstark kids, disagreement with Jon on how to deal with them, probably Littlefinger whispering bullshit in her ear, and then being left in charge of WF after Jon leaves. Episode 3 will have her reuniting with Bran. Episode 4 would be her reunion with Arya. Episodes 5 & 6 will be Littlefinger causing trouble between the sisters (they could even skip WF for an episode). And episode 7 will be Littlefinger's execution. That seems like plenty to keep the denizens of WF occupied and I don't think they need to throw in a pregnancy on top of that to keep Sansa busy.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

 Maisie Williams described Season 7 as "heartbreaking," which doesn't reflect either the leaker's Winterfell storyline or the Season 7 storylines in general, so unless she was trolling in a big way, there's something off there.

I think that depending on how they frame it, there's plenty of opportunity to have some heartbreaking moments from the leaked spoilers. Olenna Tyrell, being forced to consume poison and die like Joffrey. The Sand Snakes being killed off in front of Ellaria. Yara possibly captured and killed. Grey Worm possibly dying. Thoros, a rather decent and good guy, being taken out by a wight polar bear! Benjen sacrificing himself for his nephew. Dany losing one of her children, Viserion, to the NK.

The one thing I noticed was that with the exception of LF and possibly the sand snakes, most of the guys who bite the dust are the relatively good guys while Jaime, Cersei (Other than an alleged miscarriage) and Euron just keep on winning. Plenty of material there for heart break.

Granted, the Winterfell storyline from the leaks does sound rather bland, except for LF dying at the end.

Edited November 10, 2016 by anamika

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, bunnyblue said:

(they could even skip WF for an episode)

As an aside, it'll be interesting to see how episode counts shake down this season.  Last year saw no character even make it to 9 episodes, which has never happened before, but I expect with the reduced episode order we'll be seeing many characters appear in all seven.  Jon, Dany and much of her entourage seem like the strongest bets in that regard.  Sansa I could see missing an episode, as you say.  Arya and Bran's stories seem to be staggered to avoid bringing them to Winterfell, so it's possible they'll miss an episode.

[YaddaYadda]

Pretty sure Sophie said that Sansa wasn't pregnant. Plus the timeline isn't as compressed as it looks. Plus what kind of storyline would she have with a baby? It's not like D&D will explore anything about her time with Ramsay, the rapes and physical abuses she suffered at his hand (and at Joffrey's when he kept having his kingsguard beat her) that comes along with having Ramsay's baby. 

I don't know what they intend on doing with her character, but I don't see her having much of anything, especially in season 8. Arya can swing a sword, Bran is a warg and a greenseer and Sansa is just there (No offense to Sansa fans). There's a war coming, I'm curious to see how she's going to prepare for this. 

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I don't know what they intend on doing with her character, but I don't see her having much of anything, especially in season 8. Arya can swing a sword, Bran is a warg and a greenseer and Sansa is just there (No offense to Sansa fans). There's a war coming, I'm curious to see how she's going to prepare for this. 

I've been a skeptic in the past about Sansa having anything more to do with Cersei (at least in the books), but since the show (at least going by the leaks) is intent on keeping Cersei around for the Long Night, it's possible that Sansa will be occupied with whatever Cersei's up to.

[GreyBunny]

Cersei blows up the sept killing hundreds but Jaime stays with her because she's pregnant.  She then decides she doesn't really want to play ball with Dany so THAT'S what makes Jaime leave her yet she's still pregnant?  Ugh.  The show has turned Jaime into a dumbass.

13 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

what kind of storyline would she have with a baby?

No kidding. Sansa and Cersei both being pregnant would be so stupid.  Too many deadweight babies.

[Jazzy24]

The show seems like it switches from fanfic to a soap opera and a badly written one at that. 

[Eyes High]

Today they start filming in the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio. This location was previously speculated to be Dragonstone exteriors, since it was scouted by three directors (and will therefore appear in multiple episodes), but Team Dany has reportedly left Spain.

It seems possible from the WOTW spoilers about Casterly Rock and Highgarden appearing this season, that given that there are two castles where filming will be taking place (Trujillo and Almodovar del Rio), one of the castles will double for Casterly Rock exteriors, and another will double for Highgarden. However, only the Trujillo courtyard is being used. It could also be that both Trujillo and Almodovar del Rio are doubling for the same castle, and that they're just going to use Northern Ireland exterior and interior sets and CGI for the long shots of the castle (as they do for Winterfell).

Edited November 11, 2016 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

On 11/9/2016 at 7:04 PM, Eyes High said:

That's part of what's making me wonder. If the leaker is correct, Sansa's storyline as is seems kind of thin: conflict with Jon fizzles out when he leaves her in charge of Winterfell, LF tries to stir up drama between Sansa and Arya and fails, Sansa has Arya execute LF, boom. Maisie Williams described Season 7 as "heartbreaking," which doesn't reflect either the leaker's Winterfell storyline or the Season 7 storylines in general, so unless she was trolling in a big way, there's something off there.

As for there being no point to a Sansa pregnancy, the only possible reason is if Sansa gets pregnant and bears a child under what I imagine would have to be different circumstances in the books. If Sansa somehow gets pregnant and has a baby later on in the book storyline that was scrapped to make way for Ramsaygate in the show, then in the show they would need a baby daddy for Sansa as well. There's no indication in the Vale storyline that Sansa's going to get knocked up anytime soon, though.

Some posters on WOTW have suggested that Euron will use Casterly Rock as a base of operations with Cersei's blessing. I can't see Cersei skipping off to Casterly Rock while Dany is sitting around with her dragons poised to take the city the moment she gets the opportunity to do so.

They think she hasn't suffered enough, I guess. Being forced to bear her rapist's child would be topping out the misery meter, though. That's cruel even for this show. 

If true then Sansa probably has Harry the Heir's baby which means she'll have Ramsay's kid in the show.

[Eyes High]

7 hours ago, WindyNights said:

If true then Sansa probably has Harry the Heir's baby which means she'll have Ramsay's kid in the show.

WOTW has debunked the Sansa pregnancy foiler, thank goodness.

Dany does have a brand new throne room, though. Looks more like a modern art installation than a medieval throne room to me, but whatevs.

Javi (from L7R) and Sue (from WOTW) have hinted that there's something big going on in Spain. Javi tweeted very early this morning "When you have a piece of information about the filming and you can't publish it" with a gif of Natalie Dormer making a cute gesture of frustration. Sue also said yesterday that "There's some exciting stuff happening in Spain over the next couple of days so we're focused on that." I think they're still filming at Las Atarazanas, and they are filming at the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio.

The only actors in Spain that we know about at are James Faulkner, Jerome Flynn, NCW, and Conleth Hill. Team Dany left earlier in the week, and Gwen and Alfie cleared out two days ago. Lena Headey has now left Spain as well, apparently.

A news article was posted on a Spanish website about the Almodovar del Rio filming. They were filming in the interior of the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio, with several actors from the series (NCW being the big fish, though) and several extras. There are Lannister and Tyrell soldiers involved in the scene. The news article also reported that three extras were spotted in Stark soldier costumes, although they were likely misidentified on the basis of the leather worn before the armour is put on.

Filming took place in the castle interior. Lannister banners/flags are on the castle. They wanted extras who could fight, apparently. 

Looks like a fight takes place, since one of the soldiers has blood on their face.

ETA: WOTW confirms the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio is doubling for Highgarden, and a clash between Lannister and Tyrell soldiers will take place there.

The other juicy bit of information (bolding stuff that wasn't in the leaks) is that Grey Worm will lead the Unsullied in an attack on Casterly Rock. It looks like the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio is also doubling for Casterly Rock. Also, there's a Grey Worm/Missandei sex scene planned. 

Lastly, we have WOTW confirming the players involved in the big land battle:

Quote

Mounted on a dragon, Daenerys will lead her Dothraki horde in an ambush against Jaime, Bronn and the Lannisters who have just sacked and taken over the nearby castle.

100+ horses are involved in the shoot (only 80 were involved in the BOTB shoot), so expect crazy charges.

Sooo...question: when does this attack on Casterly Rock take place? Grey Worm is absent from the dragonpit scene that virtually everyone else seems to be attending. I thought at the time that he was going to die in Dany's ambush, but maybe while all of this is going on in 7x07, Grey Worm is leading the attack on Casterly Rock? Or maybe Grey Worm's sex scene is so that they can get closure before he dies in the attack on Casterly Rock. I dunno.

Didn't the leaker claim that Unsullied and Dothraki were involved in the ambush? WOTW makes it sound like she only takes the Dothraki.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Eyes High

[Edith]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

WOTW has debunked the Sansa pregnancy foiler, thank goodness.

Dany does have a brand new throne room, though. Looks more like a modern art installation than a medieval throne room to me, but whatevs.

Javi (from L7R) and Sue (from WOTW) have hinted that there's something big going on in Spain. Javi tweeted very early this morning "When you have a piece of information about the filming and you can't publish it" with a gif of Natalie Dormer making a cute gesture of frustration. Sue also said yesterday that "There's some exciting stuff happening in Spain over the next couple of days so we're focused on that." I think they're still filming at Las Atarazanas, and they are filming at the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio.

The only actors in Spain that we know about at are James Faulkner, Jerome Flynn, NCW, and Conleth Hill. Team Dany left earlier in the week, and Gwen and Alfie cleared out two days ago. Lena Headey has now left Spain as well, apparently.

A news article was posted on a Spanish website about the Almodovar del Rio filming. They were filming in the interior of the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio, with several actors from the series (NCW being the big fish, though) and several extras. There are Lannister and Tyrell soldiers involved in the scene. The news article also reported that three extras were spotted in Stark soldier costumes, although they were likely misidentified on the basis of the leather worn before the armour is put on.

Filming took place in the castle interior. Lannister banners/flags are on the castle. They wanted extras who could fight, apparently. 

Looks like a fight takes place, since one of the soldiers has blood on their face.

ETA: WOTW confirms the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio is doubling for Highgarden, and a clash between Lannister and Tyrell soldiers will take place there.

The other juicy bit of information (bolding stuff that wasn't in the leaks) is that Grey Worm will lead the Unsullied in an attack on Casterly Rock. It looks like the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio is also doubling for Casterly Rock. Also, there's a Grey Worm/Missandei sex scene planned. 

Lastly, we have WOTW confirming the players involved in the big land battle:

100+ horses are involved in the shoot (only 80 were involved in the BOTB shoot), so expect crazy charges.

Sooo...question: when does this attack on Casterly Rock take place? Grey Worm is absent from the dragonpit scene that virtually everyone else seems to be attending. I thought at the time that he was going to die in Dany's ambush, but maybe while all of this is going on in 7x07, Grey Worm is leading the attack on Casterly Rock? Or maybe Grey Worm's sex scene is so that they can get closure before he dies in the attack on Casterly Rock. I dunno.

Didn't the leaker claim that Unsullied and Dothraki were involved in the ambush? WOTW makes it sound like she only takes the Dothraki.

A sex scene between Grey Worm and Missandei!!! Grey Worm is definitely dying this season...

At least this sex scene will not bring speculation whether Missandei is pregnant or not ;)

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Sooo...question: when does this attack on Casterly Rock take place? Grey Worm is absent from the dragonpit scene that virtually everyone else seems to be attending. I thought at the time that he was going to die in Dany's ambush, but maybe while all of this is going on in 7x07, Grey Worm is leading the attack on Casterly Rock? Or maybe Grey Worm's sex scene is so that they can get closure before he dies in the attack on Casterly Rock. I dunno.

Yeah, I was initially uncertain whether a Casterly Rock attack was good news for Grey Worm's survival, but if he and Missandei are going to have sex, I'm pretty sure he's dead meat.

For all the nudity on this show, hardly any of it is very sexy, particularly as so little of it involves any sort of romance.  So a sex scene between two attractive people who actually like each other is a change of pace from recent seasons.

[Eyes High]

5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Yeah, I was initially uncertain whether a Casterly Rock attack was good news for Grey Worm's survival, but if he and Missandei are going to have sex, I'm pretty sure he's dead meat.

For all the nudity on this show, hardly any of it is very sexy, particularly as so little of it involves any sort of romance.  So a sex scene between two attractive people who actually like each other is a change of pace from recent seasons.

If anything, I'm wondering how this squares with the leaker's claim of Jon/Dany sex (giving us two sex scenes between attractive people who like each other). Maybe the Grey Worm/Missandei sex scene happens early on. It looks like Grey Worm has left on his mission by Episode 5.

[anamika]

11 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Also, there's a Grey Worm/Missandei sex scene planned.

With only 7 episodes this season, is this really necessary? Bah! I guess there's still time for filler.

[Haleth]

Just curious   Are they only filming season 7 now or doing season 8 concurrently?  With only 13 episodes remaining it would seem more expedient to finish primary filming with the actors and exterior locations this winter.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Haleth

[Avaleigh]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

With only 7 episodes this season, is this really necessary? Bah! I guess there's still time for filler.

This is how I feel. With a handful of episodes to go, they're going to waste time on eunuch sex? 

I really liked seeing the throne room at Dragonstone and kind of wish that we could have seen Stannis there. 

Regarding Jaime not leaving Cersei yet--

I can understand him not feeling right about leaving because I think he might see that as doing more harm than good since he's the last person around who *might* be able to keep her crazy ass in check. It's not that I think he's convinced that he'll be able to get through to her where other people have failed, but that he should try to keep her from going down her monstrous path that's reminiscent of Aerys.  

I'm also not convinced yet that he blames her for Tommen killing himself. My guess is that his feeling here is that her love for her children is/was such that Tommen's death is the very last thing that she would have wanted and that he'd be more inclined to be sympathetic to her over what happened as opposed to blaming her. I'm not arguing that she isn't to blame, just that I'm not sure Jaime would see it that way since he sees her love of her children as one of her few redeeming qualities. 

The reason the Cersei pregnancy thing makes no sense to me is that it's so too little, too late. There should have been an indication way before this that she'd long wanted to have another child because she was worried about the prophecy only to continue to be unsuccessful for whatever reason. Maybe have her less resistant to the idea of marriage with Loras by telling Jaime that it'll provide them with a cover to try and have another kid if they want to. It could have happened after the loss of Joffrey when she first starts fearing that the prophecy is coming true. Instead it's like she waited until the very last minute to try to do something to change things when she's had years to attempt to thwart the prophecy if she was indeed genuinely worried about it. Plus, why is there no indication apart from the one flashback that the prophecy is something that is on her mind 24/7? She doesn't confess her fears to anyone and she isn't proactive about trying to change anything. It's all just stupid, annoying, and not very well thought out.

I hate the prophecy in the books and don't understand why they bothered to include it on the show. I will say though that based on the spoilers, there isn't anything that I've seen that makes me feel like Sansa won't still turn out to be the YMB(Q) from the prophecy.  

[whateverdgaf]

Maybe the spoiler got it slightly wrong and Cersei only believes she is pregnant. It may be a good bit of symbolism to show how she believes she has beaten the prophecy as she is now queen and will have a fourth child, only for her to discover that there is no fourth child and she loses the throne just as she finds out it was a phantom pregnancy. Kind of like Mary 1st had.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Just curious   Are they only filming season 7 now or doing season 8 concurrently?  With only 13 episodes remaining it would seem more expedient to finish primary filming with the actors and exterior locations this winter.

They're filming Season 7.  One of the reasons for the reduced episode order is that they were finding it increasingly difficult to do even 10 episodes (supposedly they nearly missed last year) as the production gets larger.  13 episodes would be logistically impossible.

[Eyes High]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

This is how I feel. With a handful of episodes to go, they're going to waste time on eunuch sex? 

I really liked seeing the throne room at Dragonstone and kind of wish that we could have seen Stannis there. 

Regarding Jaime not leaving Cersei yet--

I can understand him not feeling right about leaving because I think he might see that as doing more harm than good since he's the last person around who *might* be able to keep her crazy ass in check. It's not that I think he's convinced that he'll be able to get through to her where other people have failed, but that he should try to keep her from going down her monstrous path that's reminiscent of Aerys.  

I'm also not convinced yet that he blames her for Tommen killing himself. My guess is that his feeling here is that her love for her children is/was such that Tommen's death is the very last thing that she would have wanted and that he'd be more inclined to be sympathetic to her over what happened as opposed to blaming her. I'm not arguing that she isn't to blame, just that I'm not sure Jaime would see it that way since he sees her love of her children as one of her few redeeming qualities. 

The reason the Cersei pregnancy thing makes no sense to me is that it's so too little, too late. There should have been an indication way before this that she'd long wanted to have another child because she was worried about the prophecy only to continue to be unsuccessful for whatever reason. Maybe have her less resistant to the idea of marriage with Loras by telling Jaime that it'll provide them with a cover to try and have another kid if they want to. It could have happened after the loss of Joffrey when she first starts fearing that the prophecy is coming true. Instead it's like she waited until the very last minute to try to do something to change things when she's had years to attempt to thwart the prophecy if she was indeed genuinely worried about it. Plus, why is there no indication apart from the one flashback that the prophecy is something that is on her mind 24/7? She doesn't confess her fears to anyone and she isn't proactive about trying to change anything. It's all just stupid, annoying, and not very well thought out.

I hate the prophecy in the books and don't understand why they bothered to include it on the show. I will say though that based on the spoilers, there isn't anything that I've seen that makes me feel like Sansa won't still turn out to be the YMB(Q) from the prophecy.  

The problem with the YMBQ prophecy is that in both the books and the show, Cersei has already lost most of what she holds dear with no single person responsible.

[Minneapple]

Nah, the only thing Cersei holds dear is her power. She doesn't really care about Jaime or her kids. The YMBQ is the one who will take Cersei's power from her. Dany, Sansa, take your pick. Margaery is out since she's, you know, dead. 

[bunnyblue]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

 

Nah, the only thing Cersei holds dear is her power. She doesn't really care about Jaime or her kids. The YMBQ is the one who will take Cersei's power from her.

 

 Yup, completely agree. I never bought that Cersei loved her kids oh so very much. I always felt she loved the power their position as Robert's 'children' gave her. If they weren't heirs to the throne, would she really have loved them as much as she professed? I have serious doubts.

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

Dany, Sansa, take your pick. Margaery is out since she's, you know, dead. 

A crackpot theory has recently taken hold of me:  what if it's Jon? Maggy said:  "Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear." She doesn't literally say a "queen" will take what Cersei holds dear but "another". Jon is younger, and while he hasn't been called 'beautiful' he's repeatedly been called 'pretty', and both mean 'attractive'. I used to think the YMB(Q) was Dany but now that we know she will turn North before taking the throne, I worry she'll die before ousting Cersei. But it could be within the realm of possibility that Jon, after defeating the NK and Dany's death, returns to King's Landing to cast down Cersei - just as his lover/aunt intended - and then sits on the Iron Throne. Like I said, totally crackpot, but I'd love it if GRRM threw us a curveball in regards to that part of the prophecy.

[anamika]

Jon as the younger, more beautiful Queen, LOL! Anything's possible I guess.

I think there's a greater chance of Dany sitting on the throne than Jon. I think Jon is not going to make it at the end. His resurrection will not be all that smooth in the books - he will be changed and not for the better. We may even lose his POV. GRRM has said that there will be a price to pay for being resurrected. Maybe the show ignored it because Jon is going to die either way. I think in the books, Jon will be dead man walking and will perish after defeating the WW. Or maybe even become the new NK. I see Dany surviving and sitting on the IT at the end, but ultimately still yearning for the house with the red door. 

I always liked the theory that the YMBQ was Cersei herself, whose paranoia over the prophecy from a young age led to her making decisions that leads to her downfall. Sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Plus the Valonqor prophecy with Jaime or Tyrion also has to fit in somewhere.

I agree that on the show, taking down Cersei could be Sansa's season 8 story, considering that Dany's focus shifts north.

[Eyes High]

10 hours ago, anamika said:

Jon as the younger, more beautiful Queen, LOL! Anything's possible I guess.

I think there's a greater chance of Dany sitting on the throne than Jon. I think Jon is not going to make it at the end. His resurrection will not be all that smooth in the books - he will be changed and not for the better. We may even lose his POV. GRRM has said that there will be a price to pay for being resurrected. Maybe the show ignored it because Jon is going to die either way. I think in the books, Jon will be dead man walking and will perish after defeating the WW. Or maybe even become the new NK. I see Dany surviving and sitting on the IT at the end, but ultimately still yearning for the house with the red door. 

I always liked the theory that the YMBQ was Cersei herself, whose paranoia over the prophecy from a young age led to her making decisions that leads to her downfall. Sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Plus the Valonqor prophecy with Jaime or Tyrion also has to fit in somewhere.

I agree that on the show, taking down Cersei could be Sansa's season 8 story, considering that Dany's focus shifts north.

It would be strange for someone who, in the show at least, is Beric 2.0, to live for another 50 years, father children, and so on, but I'm not convinced he'll die.

Based on the references to Cersei's hatred of Sansa and desire for revenge against her in Season 6, I thought there would be some sort of follow up on that. If the leaks are correct, though, as of the end of Season 7 Cersei remains south and Sansa remains north, with neither of them looking likely to move anytime soon.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Based on the references to Cersei's hatred of Sansa and desire for revenge against her in Season 6, I thought there would be some sort of follow up on that. If the leaks are correct, though, as of the end of Season 7 Cersei remains south and Sansa remains north, with neither of them looking likely to move anytime soon.

My earlier speculation about Sansa being involved with Cersei in Season 8 is based, as much as anything, on looking for things for the non-magical/non-combatant characters to do in the midst of the apocalypse.  I've speculated in the past that in the book Sansa might be a sort of home front POV, akin to a more active version of what she did during the Blackwater, but I doubt the showrunners would find that interesting.

At least going by the leaks, by the end of Season 7, every series regular other than Cersei is either in the North or on a boat heading that way.  I'm dubious that Lena Headey is being retained for the eighth season just to hang out with Qyburn for five episodes and then get killed at the end or whatever, so they'll have to rustle up some plot for her.  There's also presumably some sort of payoff for the Zombie Mountain, who, at least going by the leaks, still hasn't done anything all that significant by the end of Season 7.

Speaking of roles in Season 8, in the books it looks like Nymeria's wolf pack will be Arya's main weapon in the fight against the Others, but, at least from the leak, it doesn't particularly seem like that's in the cards (or if it is, it'll show up at a very late hour).

[WindyNights]

15 hours ago, anamika said:

Jon as the younger, more beautiful Queen, LOL! Anything's possible I guess.

I think there's a greater chance of Dany sitting on the throne than Jon. I think Jon is not going to make it at the end. His resurrection will not be all that smooth in the books - he will be changed and not for the better. We may even lose his POV. GRRM has said that there will be a price to pay for being resurrected. Maybe the show ignored it because Jon is going to die either way. I think in the books, Jon will be dead man walking and will perish after defeating the WW. Or maybe even become the new NK. I see Dany surviving and sitting on the IT at the end, but ultimately still yearning for the house with the red door. 

I always liked the theory that the YMBQ was Cersei herself, whose paranoia over the prophecy from a young age led to her making decisions that leads to her downfall. Sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Plus the Valonqor prophecy with Jaime or Tyrion also has to fit in somewhere.

I agree that on the show, taking down Cersei could be Sansa's season 8 story, considering that Dany's focus shifts north.

Jon's definitely dying. Jon is even called the Corn King in the books.

The Corn King is a story where a king is sacrificed so that winter ends and spring returns.

[WindyNights]

22 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Nah, the only thing Cersei holds dear is her power. She doesn't really care about Jaime or her kids. The YMBQ is the one who will take Cersei's power from her. Dany, Sansa, take your pick. Margaery is out since she's, you know, dead. 

Eh. Not really true. Cersei genuinely loves her kids in the show hence all her monologues remembering her kids and she also loves them in the books. 

She's said that Joffrey sucking in her breasts for the first time was the best feeling any man had ever given her. 

And in AFFC, she sees Tommen coughing and thinks he's going to go the way of Joffrey and can't help herself from crying.

GRRM says there's a case to be made that she loves her kids in a narcissistic way but it's still love.

[Wouter]

19 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Jon's definitely dying. Jon is even called the Corn King in the books.

The Corn King is a story where a king is sacrificed so that winter ends and spring returns.

Is this from what Mormont's raven was saying, in the background while Jon and Mormont were talking? I've never heard this theory before.

It does seem fairly plausible that the resurrected king may die in the end, after saving everyone. Will Jon be Martin's Strider or rather his Frodo (the latter not dying, but not really a happy ending either)?

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

Eh. Not really true. Cersei genuinely loves her kids in the show hence all her monologues remembering her kids and she also loves them in the books. 

She's said that Joffrey sucking in her breasts for the first time was the best feeling any man had ever given her. 

And in AFFC, she sees Tommen coughing and thinks he's going to go the way of Joffrey and can't help herself from crying.

GRRM says there's a case to be made that she loves her kids in a narcissistic way but it's still love.

Eh. I think Cersei loves her kids as extensions of herself, and the power they can bring her as heirs to the throne. But I think she loves her power much much more. She spends way more time thinking about it than any of her kids.

On the show they've made Cersei into more of a "poor mother, she just wants to protect her kids" figure than she is in the books. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Minneapple

[FemmyV]

22 hours ago, bunnyblue said:

But it could be within the realm of possibility that Jon, after defeating the NK and Dany's death, returns to King's Landing to cast down Cersei -

I would be okay with this. Recently I was thinking about the Cersie miscarriage spoiler and you know, I don't want Cersei to die by fluke. I want Cersie's death to specifically be a reaction to her actions, whether it was blowing up KL or blowing off the North and leaving them to fight WW on their own. Could be Jon / Dany / other who assumes control of Westeros. Part of me would like to see Jon ordering her death sentence and beheading her, himself - that'd make a nice bookend to the series' beginning, it would be good vengeance for Ned. And Jon is a "little brother."

Edited November 15, 2016 by FemmyV

[FemmyV]

On 11/9/2016 at 5:31 AM, Eyes High said:

Jaime's an asshole. A redeemable asshole, potentially, but he's not a nice guy and never will be, no matter how much he loves Brienne.

Jamie has been one of my favorite characters ever since he went off the rails (to paraphrase: "I'm supposed to guard my king but no one says what to do when the king is nuts and going to burn everything down") when he was caged and confronted by Cat. This is a guy who has Conflicts and watching him try to sort them out on the periphery of everything else going on is one of the story's great facets. He's not just the Knight Errant, he's the seriously fucked up Knight Errant who's not even sure he wants to shake it off. That Cersei's cunt is still his true north, in the show, is his biggest problem. Brienne has provided some distraction, thank goodness. I don't see his Riverlands arc as defining of movement in any particular direction: just because he got the job done without much blood being spilled doesn't mean he did the right thing, overall.

For all of LF's machinations, it was Jaime's actions that started the conflict between Stark/Lannister (although, I also have to admit, even without Bran's push, there would still have been Joffrey's sadism .. which, btw, wasn't helped by not having a good daddy figure) and that's something that's going to need resolving in season 8. Even then, to some extent he'll always have some asshole factor. He is, after all, Jamie Fucking Lannister.

Edited November 15, 2016 by FemmyV

[SeanC]

The latest from WOTW indicates that, contrary to earlier suggestions, their sources don't indicate that Jaime and Bronn are involved in the Casterly Rock filming.

With no main Lannister characters present, it would seem like an indicator that Grey Worm's assault is a success.  So perhaps he really is just chilling at Casterly Rock when the conference at the Dragonpit is called.

[GreyBunny]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 2:08 PM, WindyNights said:

Jon's definitely dying. Jon is even called the Corn King in the books.

I think so too.  In the show his resurrection didn't seem to change him other than he's more pouty than usual.  In the books no matter how he's brought back to life it's going to cost him something, and whatever that cost is, I think it would preclude him from living happily (or even mopily) ever after with a wife and kids running around. 

As for the valonqar, I think it's Jaime.  Mundane for a lot of book readers but a big surprise for Cersei and she's the primary person GRRM needs to fool.

[Eyes High]

On 11/14/2016 at 5:08 PM, WindyNights said:

Jon's definitely dying. Jon is even called the Corn King in the books.

The Corn King is a story where a king is sacrificed so that winter ends and spring returns.

I'd heard that theory before. The fact that he legit died in the show (something it's not clear happened to Book Jon) could be pointing to the fact that he's not sticking around long-term in any event.

If Jon doesn't wind up as endgame king, though, I'd be very surprised, especially if Season 7 pushes the "Dany needs someone she respects as an equal to keep her on the straight and narrow and curb her destructive impulses" narrative as the leaker seems to be hinting (since she doesn't always listen to Tyrion, apparently).

13 hours ago, SeanC said:

The latest from WOTW indicates that, contrary to earlier suggestions, their sources don't indicate that Jaime and Bronn are involved in the Casterly Rock filming.

With no main Lannister characters present, it would seem like an indicator that Grey Worm's assault is a success.  So perhaps he really is just chilling at Casterly Rock when the conference at the Dragonpit is called.

If they take the castle, presumably someone has to hold it, which might indeed explain Grey Worm's absence from the Dragonpit conference. What's puzzling to me is Grey Worm filming at Castillo de Almodovar del Rio with no Unsullied extras that we know of. How does that fit?

11 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

I think so too.  In the show his resurrection didn't seem to change him other than he's more pouty than usual.  In the books no matter how he's brought back to life it's going to cost him something, and whatever that cost is, I think it would preclude him from living happily (or even mopily) ever after with a wife and kids running around. 

As for the valonqar, I think it's Jaime.  Mundane for a lot of book readers but a big surprise for Cersei and she's the primary person GRRM needs to fool.

The mental image of Jon in a field with his wife and children happily frolicking around him while he still has the same mopey look on his face is hilarious to me.

If Cersei ends the season alive and abandoned at KL while everyone other than the Mountain, Cersei and Qyburn heads north, I'll be curious to see how that fits into Season 8. Either Tyrion, Jaime, Arya or whoever the valonqar is supposed to be will have to come south after dealing with the WWs or Cersei will have to come north. Based on the leaks, it sounds as if Cersei intends to wait for the WW war to blow over, so I doubt she'd have any interest in leaving KL. To be honest, I had thought that Cersei would have to die before the war against the WW could truly begin in earnest, but based on the leaks it won't be that simple.

It sounds like Jaime leaves Cersei without some dramatic confrontation--it sounds more like an "I can't even" moment on Jaime's part--so that could possibly point to a Jaime/Cersei showdown in Season 8. The writers also reminded us in Season 6 that Cersei wants Sansa dead, in addition to keeping the Mountain alive, so that could play into it as well.

In light of the leaks, and in particular the Arya/Brienne sparring scene and the Hound's aversion to going to Winterfell because he doesn't want a rematch with Brienne, it seems that D&D have created ties between Brienne and Arya and Brienne and the Hound that didn't exist in the books. There's this complicated web of relationships between Cersei/Jaime/Brienne/Sansa/Arya/the Hound/the Mountain, some of which don't exist in the books, and I wonder if that will all come to fruition somehow in Season 8. Pitting the Hound against Brienne at the end of Season 4 seemed pretty random at the time, but maybe it was part of a bigger plan. Maybe the Hound and Brienne team up to save Sansa from the Mountain? Or something, I dunno.

Edited November 16, 2016 by Eyes High

[anamika]

15 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I'd heard that theory before. The fact that he legit died in the show (something it's not clear happened to Book Jon) could be pointing to the fact that he's not sticking around long-term in any event.

If Jon doesn't wind up as endgame king, though, I'd be very surprised, especially if Season 7 pushes the "Dany needs someone she respects as an equal to keep her on the straight and narrow and curb her destructive impulses" narrative as the leaker seems to be hinting (since she doesn't always listen to Tyrion, apparently).

After finishing ADwD and after GRRM's remarks on Gandalf's resurrection in LOTR, I was leaning heavily towards Jon coming back different and then dying at the very end. Season 6 also confirms that Jon has truly died and that he ends up being KITN in some way. And in the books, Kings don't have POVs. I think resurrected Jon will be a bit of a mystery in the books if we lose his POV. Which will, in some ways, also be tragic because we won't get to see his inner thoughts on the R+L = J reveal - if it does get revealed to him.

I think book Jon will also be resurrected in a different way.  He's most definitely warged into Ghost - how will Mel's magic work in this case. Varamyr's prologue gave us some insights into what happens with the different warging scenarios. Jon could come back more wolf than man - like the KITNs of yore.

There's also the fact that while the book has quite a few male candidates for future leadership roles, the show has almost none. If Jon dies in the books, there's still Aegon, Willas Tyrell, Rickon Stark, Edric Storm, Harry the Heir, Trystane Martell etc. who can marry queens and create alliances. On the show, these characters are either missing or killed off.  The Hound is played by a 40 something actor. Theon, Bran and Tyrion are often not considered ideal candidates due to their disabilities, and Jaime is too old.

I don't see Jaime surviving either. He's like Sydney Carton from A Tale of Two Cities. Probably go down sacrificing himself valiantly to save lives to make up for all that bad shit he has done. So who's left? Will the new world be ruled exclusively by woman. Looking at it from this viewpoint, I could see Jon surviving considering that, other than some temporary PTSD and a few faint scars, show Jon seems to be fine. There's still Gendry I guess, but I don't see GRRM having a big purpose for Gendry.

Now if book Jon does survive at the end and sits on the Iron Throne, I think his character could end up like Leto II in Children of Dune, where he has changed considerably (Maybe physically and emotionally) but takes over ruling for the greater good. Leto II, interestingly, marries his twin sister to bring about peace and enforce his rule as emperor.

15 hours ago, Eyes High said:

If they take the castle, presumably someone has to hold it, which might indeed explain Grey Worm's absence from the Dragonpit conference. What's puzzling to me is Grey Worm filming at Castillo de Almodovar del Rio with no Unsullied extras that we know of. How does that fit?

If Grey Worm survives, the GW-Missandei sex scene becomes even more pointless. Like Why? I think he is a goner.

Edited November 17, 2016 by anamika

[whateverdgaf]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

I don't see Jaime surviving either. He's like Sydney Carton from A Tale of Two Cities. Probably go down sacrificing himself valiantly to save lives to make up for all that bad shit he has done.

 I really hope Jaime doesn't die because I'm kind of bored seeing morally grey but sympathetic characters die heroically. It happens so often this whole death as redemption thing that it's just too predictable and boring. I think it would be far more interesting to see Jaime survive the war and be left trying to cope with what he has done and move on.

[Eyes High]

I think endgame king, if any, is down to Jon and Tyrion at this point in the show, with Jon being the clear favourite and Tyrion being the spare if Jon dies or abandons the throne. Gendry's been treated too much like an Edric Storm/Book Gendry composite character in the show to be the endgame king. Tyrion I'm less sure about. A possible endgame for Tyrion that may have been floated in the show is Tyrion abandoning politics altogether and retiring to start his own winery. I'm not sold on Tyrion as Jon's Hand yet, although it depends on how Season 7 plays out. Davos, not Tyrion, seems more likely to end up as Jon's endgame Hand if Jon makes it through, although Jon and Tyrion seem to get along fine in Season 7.

If the leak is correct, TV Tyrion will continue to be his saintly, violence-abhorring self in Season 7 (hard to believe he's the same dude who strangled his lover to death in Season 4), so it's hard to get a read on where his character is supposed to be going. I suppose his saintliness relative to the book version of the character is academic if he just winds up sacrificing himself in the books/show in any event.

I'll be very interested to see what happens with Casterly Rock in Season 7, since that may point to whether or not Tyrion is going to end up with it or not. Tyrion's endgame being Lord of Casterly Rock seems a little pat, but if Sam is poised to end up as Lord of the Reach in the show, well...

I'm beginning to wonder whether the fact (according to the leaks) that Arya executes LF with the Valyrian steel dagger used by the catspaw in Season 1 means something. Leaker said that Sansa realizes LF is bad news with help from Bran.

There was a popular theory that Sandor would reveal LF's role in Ned's arrest, thus leading Sansa to turn on LF once and for all. Maybe Bran tells Sansa everything about LF's role in triggering the Stark/Lannister war, having seen it in visions, and Sansa orders LF executed with the same weapon LF used to start all the trouble in the first place. Same result, different method. 

[anamika]

1 hour ago, whateverdgaf said:

 I really hope Jaime doesn't die because I'm kind of bored seeing morally grey but sympathetic characters die heroically. It happens so often this whole death as redemption thing that it's just too predictable and boring. I think it would be far more interesting to see Jaime survive the war and be left trying to cope with what he has done and move on.

This is of course all subjective, but I hardly find Jaime to be a sympathetic character. And from the look of things, I may end up chanting 'Die, Die, Die' every time Jaime appears on my screen in season 7. Him doing Cersei's dirty work by sacking cities and killing off actually sympathetic characters like Olenna is going to do the character no favors. Maybe it's Lena Headey's acting, but I find show Cersei to be a far more sympathetic character than Jaime.

57 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'm beginning to wonder whether the fact (according to the leaks) that Arya executes LF with the Valyrian steel dagger used by the catspaw in Season 1 means something.

That spoiler sounded ridiculous at the beginning - why in the world is LF walking around with that dagger. But now I wonder if it's to get that dagger into Arya's hands. It's Valyrian steel and it's not a man's sword that will be too heavy for Arya to use. A Valyrian steel dagger for a stealth assassin like Arya? Perfect to do some stealth WW damage. I don't think we will get Dark Sister on the show, so this could work as well.

Edited November 17, 2016 by anamika

[ElizaD]

3 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

 I really hope Jaime doesn't die because I'm kind of bored seeing morally grey but sympathetic characters die heroically. It happens so often this whole death as redemption thing that it's just too predictable and boring. I think it would be far more interesting to see Jaime survive the war and be left trying to cope with what he has done and move on.

If GRRM wants a small twist, he can have Jaime fail at death as redemption: he dies but he isn't redeemed in the eyes of the Westerosi and not 100% in the eyes of the fandom either. His reputation in Westeros is not going to recover if his last act is to kill the sister whose bastards he fathered and though this would mean that we know he rejected Cersei and felt at least some regret over what he had turned into, it's not something that could be called heroic. If Jaime does go north as leaked, that might point to a standard heroic death or even joining the Night's Watch. Personally, I'm hoping for the valonqar ending: it's the only way he'll take some responsibility for what he and Cersei have done to countless innocents and admit that he can't simply decide he's Goldenhand the Just now that he feels like it.

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think endgame king, if any, is down to Jon and Tyrion at this point in the show, with Jon being the clear favourite and Tyrion being the spare if Jon dies or abandons the throne. Gendry's been treated too much like an Edric Storm/Book Gendry composite character in the show to be the endgame king. Tyrion I'm less sure about. A possible endgame for Tyrion that may have been floated in the show is Tyrion abandoning politics altogether and retiring to start his own winery. I'm not sold on Tyrion as Jon's Hand yet, although it depends on how Season 7 plays out. Davos, not Tyrion, seems more likely to end up as Jon's endgame Hand if Jon makes it through, although Jon and Tyrion seem to get along fine in Season 7.

If the leak is correct, TV Tyrion will continue to be his saintly, violence-abhorring self in Season 7 (hard to believe he's the same dude who strangled his lover to death in Season 4), so it's hard to get a read on where his character is supposed to be going. I suppose his saintliness relative to the book version of the character is academic if he just winds up sacrificing himself in the books/show in any event.

I'll be very interested to see what happens with Casterly Rock in Season 7, since that may point to whether or not Tyrion is going to end up with it or not. Tyrion's endgame being Lord of Casterly Rock seems a little pat, but if Sam is poised to end up as Lord of the Reach in the show, well...

Book Tyrion loves politics and power far more than Show Tyrion, who might be quite happy being "only" the Lord of Casterly Rock. On the show this kind of retirement from the biggest political stage, with occasional trips to advise Jon/Dany and enough rebuilding/lording to give him things to do back home, would be a happy ending for Tyrion. There's some moments in the books that have been used in King Tyrion theories, but I don't think those theories have been strengthened by the show where he seems to be pretty firmly the advisor who needs to make Dany adopt his suggestions instead of the guy who's showing that he really should have her job. He's a good Hand, not a leader who can make others follow him.

[GrailKing]

23 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Maybe the Hound and Brienne team up to save Sansa from the Mountain? Or something, I dunno.

This would fit in with Bran's book visions, replace Jamie with Brienne; wonder if we would see that vision in the show?

[SeanC]

8 hours ago, anamika said:

That spoiler sounded ridiculous at the beginning - why in the world is LF walking around with that dagger. 

Well, he does have it in the books, and at this point it's not like anybody around him knows the significance of it.