Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Minneapple]

10 hours ago, SimoneS said:

there is a part of me that cannot shake the feeling that the show might balk at being supportive of them committing incest. 

This is what is making me balk at shipping Jon and Dany. Or Jon and Sansa. Although they all look very pretty together and have loads of chemistry and I can understand why people would ship them and honestly it's hard not to ship the whole cast IRL. But THEY'RE FAMILY. And I know, it's the GoT world and it's more acceptable there. But whatever. I won't ship shame. Ship and let ship, I always say.

However, if they have sex and then they find out about Jon's parentage I don't imagine he will be too thrilled about it. Yeah, I'm going to keep having sex with my aunt because she's my soulmate. That...doesn't seem like something Jon would do. But I've been wrong before and I'll probably be wrong again.

[anamika]

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

This is what is making me balk at shipping Jon and Dany. Or Jon and Sansa.

Jon/Dany is different compared to Jon/Sansa though. Jon and Sansa grew up together as half-siblings whereas Jon and Dany are total strangers connected by blood.

2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

However, if they have sex and then they find out about Jon's parentage I don't imagine he will be too thrilled about it. Yeah, I'm going to keep having sex with my aunt because she's my soulmate. That...doesn't seem like something Jon would do.

It's funny that the opposite happens in the infamous original outline. Jon and Arya are horrified that they are falling in love in that way and R+L=J was supposed to be a solution to the 'passion that torments them' because it's all okay if they are cousins. In the current scenario it would be Jon and Dany falling in love first and later R+L=J throws a spanner in the works.

Now, cousin marriage was common among the Starks, so I am not sure how aghast Jon is going to be that Dany is his aunt. GRRM has mentioned about aunt-nephew marriages among the Targs, so Dany should not have a problem. If that's where GRRM is headed, then I think the TV show will go there, but try to be very subtle about their relationship.

Edited October 26, 2016 by anamika

[SimoneS]

I am open to Jon and Daenerys, but don't ship them, maybe because like I said before I am skeptical that the show goes there. I definitely don't ship Jon and Sansa. As a romantic couple, they squick me out and don't see any attraction between them on the screen. The only couple I am rooting for is Brienne and Jaime and that is because I love her and want her to be happy. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by SimoneS

[Lady S.]

The show has kept the Lannicest twins together longer than any of us expected, so I have a hard time believing they have any incest squick at all, much less one that would apply to two strangers that likely don't even know about R+L=J when they first meet but not to life-long twincest.

[stagmania]

Wow, I missed a lot. I can't believe how much has already come out about the new season! Big things will be happening sooner than I thought.

4 hours ago, anamika said:

Now, cousin marriage was common among the Starks, so I am not sure how aghast Jon is going to be that Dany is his aunt. GRRM has mentioned about aunt-nephew marriages among the Targs, so Dany should not have a problem. If that's where GRRM is headed, then I think the TV show will go there, but try to be very subtle about their relationship.

Yeah, given that they seem perfectly at ease with Cersei/Jamie, I don't see this being a barrier the show wouldn't cross. And I would bet that they won't underline the aunt/nephew thing when it's revealed who Jon's parents are. It'll be there, but they won't put any emphasis on it. I think finding out Jon is a Targaryen by blood would actually be appealing to Daenerys. 

[Lady S.]

More grainy Dany/Jon filming. 

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, anamika said:

Now, cousin marriage was common among the Starks, so I am not sure how aghast Jon is going to be that Dany is his aunt. GRRM has mentioned about aunt-nephew marriages among the Targs, so Dany should not have a problem. If that's where GRRM is headed, then I think the TV show will go there, but try to be very subtle about their relationship.

There are also two instances of uncle/niece marriage in the Stark family tree (brothers Jonnel and Edric Stark married their nieces Serena and Sansa), so if Jon's up on his history, he should not be overly conflicted about banging his aunt.

As far as the leaks go, Jon and Dany have filmed multiple scenes together, including what looks like an intimate scene shot overlooking the water. If the show is pushing a Jon/Dany relationship, with only 13 episodes left total, and in all likelihood only five episodes in Season 7 to develop Jon/Dany (since Jon will not be arriving prior to Episode 3), the audience is far more likely to get a hard sell than a slow burn.

I'm not saying Season 7 will end with Dany/Jon boat sex...but at this point, it wouldn't surprise me.

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More grainy Dany/Jon filming. 

Looks like Dany reuniting with Jorah, with Jon (flanked by Davos and Gendry) interrupting them. Iain Glen was spotted in Bilbao yesterday.

It is pretty grainy, though. Where's pap4u when you need him?

[Minneapple]

I don't think the writers seem quite "at ease" with Jaime/Cersei. It's there, but kind of uncomfortable. And it's definitely a toxic relationship in which Cersei wields power over Jaime.

I think Jon/Arya would squick me out even more than Jon/Sansa because Jon and Arya acted like actual siblings. They had such a lovely sibling relationship.

Daenerys might be more okay with it given that she grew up socially conditioned to accepting incest; I just can't see Jon being okay with having sex with his aunt. That's speaking to Jon's character, not the writers or the Stark family tree or anything else. 

[YaddaYadda]

I think a lot of people are expecting Jon/Dany to happen. I've been expecting them since the first book even though they don't even know the other exists. The thing with this debate about incest/aunt-nephew/twins-siblings/cousins getting together is that for one thing, it's the most normal thing in the books and even on the show. I mean we open with Jaime and Cersei having sex. Plus we have to take this in the context that and the time the story is told in. And it's not like this stuff didn't happen throughout history anyway. Royal intermarriages were the most normal thing. There's a reason Prince William looks the way he does (I know such a low blow!)

We can be squeeked by it all we want, the version of Jon/Dany is a lot less worse than Aerys/Rhaella, or Aegon and his sister wives.

Also, no to Jon/Sansa, especially with whatever she's up to with LF, and how very little she seems to know and understand Jon. And vice versa. It's not a shipping thing, because frankly, the only couple I really want to see is R+L, but they're both dead, so, yeah. It sucks for me.

[Eyes High]

48 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Daenerys might be more okay with it given that she grew up socially conditioned to accepting incest; I just can't see Jon being okay with having sex with his aunt. That's speaking to Jon's character, not the writers or the Stark family tree or anything else. 

"Jon's character" doesn't exist in a vacuum, though. Jon exists in the particular cultural context of Westeros, where cousin marriage is no big deal--Tywin married his first cousin Joanna and no one batted an eye, Sansa is repulsed by marrying Sweetrobin but not because he's her cousin, etc.--and where uncle/niece marriage is no big deal, either, as indicated by the Stark family tree. Alys doesn't want to marry her first cousin once removed Cregan, whom she considers her uncle, but not because she sees him as her uncle, but because he's going to use her to take control of Karhold (and probably kill her once she gives him an heir). (At no point in ADWD does Jon express any shock or repulsion at the idea of Alys' "uncle" wanting to marry her.) I find it very difficult to believe that for Jon, who lives in a world where cousins marry each other and where uncles marry their nieces, that the idea of having sex with his aunt would disgust him.

I think Jon would be far more conflicted about having a romantic relationship with someone he'd always seen as a sister, than he would having a relationship with a stranger he was attracted to who later turned out to be related to him.

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Also, no to Jon/Sansa, especially with whatever she's up to with LF, and how very little she seems to know and understand Jon. And vice versa. It's not a shipping thing, because frankly, the only couple I really want to see is R+L, but they're both dead, so, yeah. It sucks for me.

If the leaker is pretty much in the dark about what goes on at Winterfell this season and was only guessing, that opens up a number of possibilities for the Winterfell plot. I kind of hope the leaker got it wrong, because the plot as described--LF tries to turn Sansa and Arya against each other, but Bran helps Sansa see the truth about LF and she orders his execution via Arya--sounds pretty bland.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

45 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

If the leaker is pretty much in the dark about what goes on at Winterfell this season and was only guessing, that opens up a number of possibilities for the Winterfell plot. I kind of hope the leaker got it wrong, because the plot as described--LF tries to turn Sansa and Arya against each other, but Bran helps Sansa see the truth about LF and she orders his execution via Arya--sounds pretty bland.

Many of the basics of the Winterfell story make sense to me, based on what we know.  Assuming the writers weren't completely making things up, it seems like the storyline of Littlefinger trying to play Sansa against Jon will play out in the context of Jon going south, which would theoretically be a good time for a coup (and, I guess, depending on how the Northerners feel about allying with the Targaryens, maybe that will cause some dissent amongst the nobles that could be exploited).

Likewise, with Jon absent, there probably needs to be a main character on the opposite side of Littlefinger in the tug-of-war.  One (or both) of the younger Starks would be the most obvious candidate (though, as I've said many times before, I still don't understand how Bran returning doesn't kibosh this whole storyline), since none of the other regular/recurring characters in the North are especially significant.  And with all the narrative emphasis on Sansa and Arya's relationship, it seems like there should be a payoff for it.

The things that don't make much sense to me are the suggested plot points around Littlefinger using that letter and Bran resolving the whole thing using a vision.  The former, especially; nothing about that letter would constitute a damning revelation.  And while I expect Littlefinger's story will end with his worst deeds coming back to bite him (indeed, I've argued that in the past), Bran randomly deciding to look into Littlefinger's backstory at the tail end of the season seems rather arbitrary (though that, again, just highlights how I'm not sure how this story will work with somebody with Bran's powers around).

Now, until we get the Dragonpit filming it remains possible that Jon will head North again for the final few episodes, though I think that would be an unusual story structure for the show, seeing as the bulk of his narrative for the season will be in the South with Dany; it would be odd for him to suddenly transition into a completely different story for the climax.

Edited October 26, 2016 by SeanC

[anamika]

Let's recall that GRRM initially intended for Jon to fall in love with his closest sibling. We get several passages in the books where Jon compares his lover (Ygritte) and his lover's body to Arya. I suspect that the only reason this plot got possibly torpedoed is because GRRM feels that Arya is too young without the 5 yr gap to go there with Jon.  After all that, Jon/Dany is going to be nothing and Jon having the hots for his total stranger aunt is no big deal. Book Jon may end up being a little conflicted but I think in the books, political necessities will also play a role in their union.

Edited October 26, 2016 by anamika

[SeanC]

9 minutes ago, anamika said:

I suspect that the only reason this plot got possibly torpedoed is because GRRM feels that Arya is too young without the 5 yr gap to go there with Jon. 

If such a crucial plot point to the endgame hinged on the gap (or Arya getting older), GRRM would have made it happen.  

Wow, literally minutes after I posted about it remaining unresolved whether Jon goes northward or not, WOTW reports that they filmed a scene of Jon, Davos, Gendry and Jorah departing Dragonstone together in a boat.  Oh dear, there's another point in favour of those Reddit spoilers.  Wight-hunting beyond the Wall, here we come!

Edited October 26, 2016 by SeanC

[Lady S.]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Looks like Dany reuniting with Jorah, with Jon (flanked by Davos and Gendry) interrupting them. Iain Glen was spotted in Bilbao yesterday.

It is pretty grainy, though. Where's pap4u when you need him?

NVM, here's better quality footage. It looks more like Jorah is leaving yet again, with Jon and Gendry joining him. 

[anamika]

11 minutes ago, SeanC said:

If such a crucial plot point to the endgame hinged on the gap (or Arya getting older), GRRM would have made it happen.  

I don't see how he could make it happen? Arya is currently 11.  Jon would be falling in love with a 11 year old Arya. Which ugh! I  tend to dislike characters like Sandor and LF for slobbering over a 11 yr old Sansa. If Jon did that, I think that would totally change his character for me. 12 yr old Arya conquering the world? Sure. 12 yr Arya and 17 yr old Jon having a romance? No thanks!

4 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

NVM, here's better quality footage. It looks more like Jorah is leaving yet again, with Jon and Gendry joining him. 

They are all going on their Wight hunting mission. Probably join up with Tormund and co. at Eastwatch by the Sea. Considering that they are going by ship, that's where they are headed.

Edited October 26, 2016 by anamika

[SeanC]

Just now, anamika said:

I don't see how he could make it happen? Arya is currently 11.  Jon would be falling in love with a 11 year old Arya. 

No, my point was that if GRRM's plan involved a Jon/Arya romance, he would have done whatever he needed to do to make her old enough (and the bar for that isn't terribly high, if, say, SanSan is going to be a thing, Sansa's probably going to be 14 at the most in the revised timeline).  I don't think he made any major alteration to his endgame plans as a result of losing the gap; the result just altered the mechanics.

[anamika]

8 minutes ago, SeanC said:

No, my point was that if GRRM's plan involved a Jon/Arya romance, he would have done whatever he needed to do to make her old enough (and the bar for that isn't terribly high, if, say, SanSan is going to be a thing, Sansa's probably going to be 14 at the most in the revised timeline).  I don't think he made any major alteration to his endgame plans as a result of losing the gap; the result just altered the mechanics.

But he was not able to make her old enough and I think he went for the Jon/Dany plot instead. At some point, when he was writing the books, he decided to shift to possibly shift from Jon/Arya to Jon/Dany and I think Arya not growing older fast enough for him to go there was one of the reasons.

Sansa is two years older and I already find all her relationships with these much older men considerably gross considering that they fall for her when she is 11 yrs old and had not even hit puberty. I think even GRRM was surprised that SanSan had a fanbase after which he started adding to that relationship and putting in tidbits for the fans.

I still think Arya has a major role to play in the end game. And I still think she will end up being Queen in the North. Not just by marrying Jon.

Edited October 26, 2016 by anamika

[SeanC]

Just now, anamika said:

But he was not able to make her old enough and I think he went for the Jon/Dany plot instead. At some point, when he was writing the books, he decided to shift to possibly shift from Jon/Arya to Jon/Dany and I think Arya not growing older fast enough for him to go there was one of the reasons.

That there was a shift away from GRRM's original outlined Jon/Arya romance is clear, but I don't think that was a result of abandoning the five-year-gap.  By that point he already had the major characters' storylines figured out, from his own telling.  If the first three books were setting up a Jon/Arya romance, then it would be a big part of their stories, and he wouldn't change that.  He'd bite the bullet and figure out how to get Arya to the right age.

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Sansa is two years older and I already find all her relationships with these much older men considerably gross considering that they all fall for her when she is 11 yrs old and had not even hit puberty. I think even GRRM was surprised that SanSan had a fanbase after which he started adding to that relationship and putting in tidbits for the fans.

The core material for people who like SanSan is found in the first two books, which were mostly written before any significant fan response could have been received.

[Edith]

So Jon, Davos, Jorah and Gendry are leaving (wight hunting?) and Dany/Tyrion combo is staying behind just like the Leak said. 

I wonder if we are getting more confirmations on this leak when they film the ambush scene and probably WOTW announcing the return of two more characters: Randyll and Dickon Tarly. 

Edit: Dany is wearing red and black!!!!!!!!

Edited October 26, 2016 by Edith

[Lady S.]

55 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Wow, literally minutes after I posted about it remaining unresolved whether Jon goes northward or not, WOTW reports that they filmed a scene of Jon, Davos, Gendry and Jorah departing Dragonstone together in a boat.  Oh dear, there's another point in favour of those Reddit spoilers.  Wight-hunting beyond the Wall, here we come!

They've updated with pics from the Daily Mail. In these, it looks like Dany is wearing a red cloak for full Targ colors, something which I doubted was ever going to happen.

[roguetamlin]

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Strapped to his side is the feared Valyrian steel sword Longclaw, gifted to Jon by his Night's Watch predecessor Jeor Mormont.

Imagining THAT awkward conversation!

Jorah: Hey I know that sword! 

[Jazzy24]

35 minutes ago, Edith said:

 

Edit: Dany is wearing red and black!!!!!!!!

The costumes on this show are so ugly. 

[Jazzy24]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Let's recall that GRRM initially intended for Jon to fall in love with his closest sibling. We get several passages in the books where Jon compares his lover (Ygritte) and his lover's body to Arya. I suspect that the only reason this plot got possibly torpedoed is because GRRM feels that Arya is too young without the 5 yr gap to go there with Jon.  After all that, Jon/Dany is going to be nothing and Jon having the hots for his total stranger aunt is no big deal. Book Jon may end up being a little conflicted but I think in the books, political necessities will also play a role in their union.

Jon is not falling in love with his aunt. 

I bet he dies at the end. I don't get the shipping obsession in this fandom. All the relationships are either unfairly balanced where one person has significant power or it's a violent, unhappy, unhealthy relation and or infatuation. 

Why cant Jon and Dany have a healthy aunt/nephew relationship? Jon is the character with the most healthy relationships so why can't he have one with his paternal aunt? It doesn't matter cause I'm like 99.9999999999999999999999999% that Jon will die when it's all said and done. 

[YaddaYadda]

The outfit Dany is wearing reminds me of Cersei's outfit in the season 6 finale, minus the armour. Missandei looks almost like a super hero in her new clothes. She reminds me of a character from the X-Men movies. 

18 minutes ago, roguetamlin said:

Imagining THAT awkward conversation!

Jorah: Hey I know that sword! 

I think that might actually be a bittersweet moment for Jorah and Jon. And I kind of like that whatever mission those 2 are about to embark upon, that it's actually bringing Jorah home which is what he's wanted all along. I'm hoping there's some emotion in these scenes. I kind of wonder if as KitN, Jon won't give Jorah that pardon he wanted very badly.

Plus Jorah is a character that might shed some light on Rhaegar's character in some late night conversations, the same way Davos and Jon and even Tyrion might able to tell Gendry something about Robert. 

Edited October 26, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Edith]

There's something about the leaks that I still can't wrap my head around (a part from pregnancy and stupidity) how can't dany not believe in WW? Doesn't she remember her HOTU vision? How can she, a person who can't be burned, who has seen magic for herself don't believe there's something magic beyond the wall? isn't that a little illogic? 

All this IF the leaks are true of course 

[Lady S.]

18 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

The outfit Dany is wearing reminds me of Cersei's outfit in the season 6 finale, minus the armour. Missandei looks almost like a super hero in her new clothes. She reminds me of a character from the X-Men movies. 

Yeah, I think Dany and Missandei's new clothes look more appropriate to a comic book movie than to Westeros.

[Eyes High]

Poor Jorah. Seems like he makes it to Dany just in time to get recruited for the wight-hunting expedition.

This latest bit of confirmation of the leaks only confirms what we already knew: that the leaker knew about the Basque filming scenes, since the leaker knew about Jon, Jorah, Davos and Gendry taking a skiff north. We still don't know whether the leaker had any information beyond detailed knowledge of the exterior scenes shot in the Basque region.

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Dany/Tyrion combo is staying behind just like the Leak said. 

According to the leak, Dany doesn't stay behind for long, since in the great tradition of GOT battles she shows up at the last minute with her dragons to save Jon and co. from the wights. This is a lot dodgier than awayforthelads' other information, though, since it relates to scenes that will be filmed elsewhere. 

It sounds like a pretty tight timeline, though, since whatever's left of Jon's strike force will be present at the dragonpit scene in 7x07, if Davos' presence there with Dany is any indication.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Eyes High

[ElizaD]

7 minutes ago, Edith said:

There's something about the leaks that I still can't wrap my head around (a part from pregnancy and stupidity) how can't dany not believe in WW? Doesn't she remember her HOTU vision? How can she, a person who can't be burned, who has seen magic for herself don't believe there's something magic beyond the wall? isn't that a little illogic? 

All this IF the leaks are true of course 

The leak I read (not the original post, wherever it was, but so detailed that it looked like it was copy-pasted and not just a summary of each main point) said that Jon realizes that he needs proof of undead after an ill-advised attack on King's Landing. The post also said Jon needs to persuade Dany and Cersei. I think it's possible that he does convince Dany that the White Walkers exist (especially since she had that season 2 vision) but they disagree about whether she should focus on them right now or first take out Cersei and claim her army for the fight against the WW. If the Greyjoys/Tyrells/Martells are wrecked and a KL attack fails, maybe that convinces Dany that Jon is right and they have to get Cersei to agree to a truce and think about the throne after they beat the WW.

[Aziraphale]

After lurking since somewhere around season 3, these spoilers/leaks/pictures finally made me sign up! I just know that I will cackle forever if it turns out that basically most of the season leaked in the what... second week of filming?

I actually don't have that many problems with those possible spoilers, because I think the context matters a lot. Some stuff just looks horrible summed up in one sentence and might not look so bad in the end. Like Cersei having a miscarriage, which sounded like such a cliché at first, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. She's in her 40s now and drinks all the time, so it's nothing especially weird and I could see her becoming even more unhinged due to it. Depending how it plays out, that could be something Lena could really work with. I mean... what will Cersei do otherwise in all the screentime she's undoubtly going to get, because they love her?

I do believe the leaker knows most if not all the stuff that's currently been filmed in Spain. For the Northern scenes, we'll have to see. I do think an undead dragon could be cool. I'd cry for poor Vyserion, but it would definitely be a great visual and show that it doesn't just need some dragons to wipe out the White Walkers.
Plus, I'd buy popcorn and read all the forums. It has been discussed who the third rider is going to be for so many years and most (including me) just assumed it would be Tyrion... to just overthrow that theory would be entertaining for me. Non-shipping related wank is the best wank.

There are only three things I don't like from the leaks:

1.) Yara's probable fate. She deserves better than being no doubt gruesomely killed by her uncle. And I hope they don't feel like they have to make up for the no-rape/minimal boobies from last season (which improved the overall feeling of the show for me a lot) there.

2.) Arya killing Littlefinger. That would just feel weird. It's not like I necessarily want Sansa to kill anyone, but her telling her sister to kill someone (for her?) just feels... wrong somehow. I do like the potential of them working together. 

3.) Dany burning people for not bending the knee. I just can't take another year of the endless discussion about if she's going mad or not - especially since they made clear that Dany is trying hard to be better than her father. Plus, burning people is just such a cruel way of execution, I don't ever want to watch it again. Just behead people please, even if your motto is Fire & Blood! IF it's true, I hope it turns out just to be Randyll and that he tried to kill her first or something. 
The only thing that gives me a bit of hope is that while I don't think that Jon would balk at sleeping with an aunt he never met before, I do think he'd balk at sleeping with someone cruel.

I'm also rooting for wall sex. Don't take that away from me. It would compensate me for quite a lot of possible bullshit! I'd be so entertained! (I've been basically rooting for Jon/Dany since I saw pics of Kit and Emilia from several photo shoots and decided they'd be really very pretty together)

[SeanC]

37 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

This latest bit of confirmation of the leaks only confirms what we already knew: that the leaker knew about the Basque filming scenes, since the leaker knew about Jon, Jorah, Davos and Gendry taking a skiff north. We still don't know whether the leaker had any information beyond detailed knowledge of the exterior scenes shot in the Basque region.

The Italica filming will really be the sink or swim moment for this (though I'm prepared to allow the leaker some leeway as to which minor characters will be present).  You would think they'd be able to keep us from getting direct shots of the filming, but Spain has pretty much been a sieve so far this year, so maybe not.  And the presence of an actor as distinctive-looking as Rory McCann should be hard to hide.

[Edith]

3 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

The leak I read (not the original post, wherever it was, but so detailed that it looked like it was copy-pasted and not just a summary of each main point) said that Jon realizes that he needs proof of undead after an ill-advised attack on King's Landing. The post also said Jon needs to persuade Dany and Cersei. I think it's possible that he does convince Dany that the White Walkers exist (especially since she had that season 2 vision) but they disagree about whether she should focus on them right now or first take out Cersei and claim her army for the fight against the WW. If the Greyjoys/Tyrells/Martells are wrecked and a KL attack fails, maybe that convinces Dany that Jon is right and they have to get Cersei to agree to a truce and think about the throne after they beat the WW.

No according to the leaks

Dany and Jon meet. Dany demands he bend the knee, which he refuses. Evidently, he discusses the WWs, but she doesn't believe him. Tyrion insists that Jon isn't crazy.

The Dothraki and Dany attack the Lannister army on their way back from the Reach. Jamie and Bron are both there. Despite the Lannister army having a giant anti-dragon spear gun designed by Qyburn, they are defeated. Bron saves Jamie from a dragon, and the two manage to escape. Jon remains at Dragonstone during this battle, as he is not aligned with her yet. 

Jon isn't afraid of Drogon and pets him on Dany's return from the battle, which Drogon allows. This surprises Dany. 

After Dany's attack on the Lannisters, Jon realises that what he needs to do is provide proof of the Undead Army. 

There's not mention of Cersei here. And if Dany believes or not in WW at the moment, that clearly isn't stopping her for continuing the war. Also when the Tyrion-Jaime conversation happens (episode 4 or 5), there's not mention of WW to Jaime but simply that Jamie surrenders to Dany

Again all this IF the leaks are true

[YaddaYadda]

3 minutes ago, Edith said:

The Dothraki and Dany attack the Lannister army on their way back from the Reach. Jamie and Bron are both there. Despite the Lannister army having a giant anti-dragon spear gun designed by Qyburn, they are defeated.

People that need to bite the dust this season? Qyburn. 

3 minutes ago, Edith said:

Jon isn't afraid of Drogon and pets him on Dany's return from the battle, which Drogon allows. This surprises Dany. 

Gimme!

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Edith said:

All this IF the leaks are true of course 

At this point it cannot be denied that some portion of the leaks are true. It may be a relatively small portion, if the leaker only had information about the Spanish filming (meaning only the exterior scenes in the south) and filled in the missing information himself, but a portion is 100% on the money.

55 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

The leak I read (not the original post, wherever it was, but so detailed that it looked like it was copy-pasted and not just a summary of each main point) said that Jon realizes that he needs proof of undead after an ill-advised attack on King's Landing. The post also said Jon needs to persuade Dany and Cersei. I think it's possible that he does convince Dany that the White Walkers exist (especially since she had that season 2 vision) but they disagree about whether she should focus on them right now or first take out Cersei and claim her army for the fight against the WW. If the Greyjoys/Tyrells/Martells are wrecked and a KL attack fails, maybe that convinces Dany that Jon is right and they have to get Cersei to agree to a truce and think about the throne after they beat the WW.

The leaker was a bit garbled, but "clarified" later that there is no attack on KL. The only big battle of the season will be the "ambush" scene filmed in Caceres, which is a Lannister-on-Lannister ambush with Dothraki, Unsullied, horses, the works.

As I understand it, this is the leaker's sequence of events in Season 7 as it relates to Jon and Dany's storyline:

Jon has a dispute with Sansa and Lyanna Mormont over what is to be done with the Umber and Karstark lands; Sansa and Lyanna want the heirs (played by Megan Parkinson and the young male actor) stripped of their lands, to be given to those Northern lords who were loyal in the fight against Ramsay. Jon refuses. He receives a letter from Dany (Episode 2?) summoning all the leaders of armies. He needs dragonglass, which exists in abundance in the Dragonstone caves, and so he decides to go south with Davos. Sansa isn't thrilled about this until he leaves her in charge; there's no real conflict between them, since she's all about power and he doesn't care about power at all. Jon meets Dany very early on. They get off to a rough start (Dany wants Jon to bend the knee and he refuses, she doesn't believe his claims about the WWs), but their relationship gradually gets warmer and flirtier over the course of the season. They proceed to spend most of the season together. Jon takes issue with Dany's liberal attitude towards killing people by pointing out that Jon has slain many enemies, a point Jon apparently concedes.

Although she lands safely at Dragonstone without incident, Dany's campaign to take Westeros gets off to a rough start. Euron disposes of her Dornish allies in short order, killing Nym and Obara and forcing Ellaria to watch Tyene die after he imprisons them both and poisons Tyene (Cersei's "gift" for Myrcella). The Dorne storyline, or what's left of it, will be done in the first couple of episodes. Things don't go any better for Theon and Yara. Euron boards Yara's ship and puts a knife to Yara's throat. Theon freaks out and jumps overboard. He survives, but the Ironborn lose all respect for him. He returns to Dragonstone, only to be confronted by an angry Jon (who tells him the only reason he'll spare his life is what he did for Sansa). Tyrion also talks Dany out of a direct attack on KL, convincing her that most of the people who would die would be innocents.

Another problem is Jaime proving to be a more capable commander than Tyrion anticipated. Jaime marches Lannister troops to Highgarden and easily conquers it. Olenna admits to murdering Joffrey. Jaime allows her to drink poison rather than face Cersei's wrath and she dies at the end of Episode 3. Dany decides to attack Jaime's troops as they are marching back to King's Landing, even though Tyrion advises against it. Apparently, Jon is left back at Dragonstone or on the sidelines during this attack, although he pets Drogon when Dany returns. It's not clear from the leaker who wins (he has contradicted himself on this point), but all the main characters involved survive the battle. Jaime and Bronn wind up fleeing after Bronn saves Jaime. When Dany is rounding up the survivors, she comes across Randyll and Dickon Tarly, who had allied with Cersei. Randyll refuses to bend the knee, so Dany orders them both burned, even though Tyrion strongly counsels against it. Tyrion is horrified, and both Varys and Tyrion are left worrying about whether they'll be able to control their queen.

In the aftermath of the ambush debacle, Tyrion and Davos head to King's Landing on a secret mission to attempt to persuade Jaime to abandon Cersei and surrender to Dany. Jaime refuses. Davos seeks out Gendry in Flea Bottom and this leads to Gendry accompanying Tyrion and Davos when they leave KL. By this time, Jorah has arrived at Dragonstone, cured of his greyscale (by Sam in Oldtown, apparently). Jon decides that what's needed is proof of the existence of the undead threat to persuade Cersei and to avoid bloodshed, and he leaves with a small group including Davos, Gendry, and Jorah. 

Operation Wight Retrieval takes this group to Eastwatch, where Tormund is manning the post. He has Beric, Thoros and the Hound in his dungeon. They all wind up part of the expedition. The expedition is successful, but at great cost: Thoros dies via a wightified polar bear, Dany comes north with the dragons to bail them out and Viserion is killed by the NK, etc. The survivors of the mission, including the Hound, head south. At some point (Episode 6?), Jon agrees to renounce his KITN title in exchange for Dany's assistance against the WW.

At the dragonpit, Team Cersei and Team Jon/Dany meet for a parley. Cersei is shown the wight, who keeps resurrecting despite the Mountain slashing it to pieces. Jaime and Cersei are shaken by this; Cersei agrees to an armistice and to send the remaining Lannister armies north to fight the WW, but privately tells Jaime she intends to renege on this promise so that she'll only have the undead to deal with rather than Dany and Jon's multiple armies. Jaime is disgusted by this and abandons her to head north.

The season culminates with Jon and Dany having sex as they head north, followed by the Wall coming down as a wightified Viserion with the NK as its mount busts through.

In other spoilers, Sam discovers that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was annulled and another marriage to Lyanna was recorded, with one child being recorded ("Aegon," apparently). Sam ditches the maesters in Episode 5 and heads for Winterfell.

Quote

There's not mention of Cersei here. And if Dany believes or not in WW at the moment, that clearly isn't stopping her for continuing the war. 

Assuming the leaks are all true: the Jon wight retrieval mission comes on the heels of Davos and Tyrion's failure to negotiate Jaime's peaceful surrender. The fact that Davos accompanied Tyrion to KL suggests that Jon supported or at least didn't oppose Tyrion's attempt to procure KL for Dany through peaceful means. We also know that Tyrion has returned by the time Jon leaves on his mission (since Davos and Gendry accompany Jon and Tyrion sees them off). I think it's pretty clear in context that Jon is getting a wight not to persuade Dany but to persuade Cersei and thereby end the conflict without excessive bloodshed.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Eyes High

[glowbug]

Jon interacting with dragons is something I've been waiting for. I think we'll see him riding Rhaegal in season eight. Given GRRM's comments about the dragons being nuclear weapons and his comments about the dangers of nuclear weapons it seems plausible one will end up in the hands of the WW. It also gets rid of the problem of the third head, which the show hasn't really addressed. It's possible that there will be one in the books but I'd be surprised if it were Tyrion if it doesn't happen in the show because that would be a major change to a major character. 

P.S. Any word on Ghost? One of my major gripes about this series is how they neglect the wolves. 

[ElizaD]

Well, now I'm confused what leaked when. I found the leak with the lines quoted by Edith, but it's missing stuff that I saw in the post I read earlier, like Melisandre saying she's brought ice and fire together. Did the original leaker make more posts that included new stuff like the Melisandre information or is it a fake addition? The post I first read does include some of the same little bits like the cute Drogon moment, but it's not an exact copy.

There has been so much speculation about the third head, which led to theories like Tyrion Targaryen as a way to get him a dragon, that the Night's King being the third head feels like an exciting twist that I want to be true; I can't remember ever seeing a serious discussion of that possibility, the way I've been seeing Fake Aegon theories since before AFFC was published. It's unexpected but I think it could make sense, thinking about the "dragons as nukes" thing: with the NK riding Viserion fire and not just ice would be a danger to the realm, and it would allow one or both of the remaining dragons to die fighting Viserion so that the Targaryens will be less superpowered after they win.

[Lady S.]

50 minutes ago, glowbug said:

P.S. Any word on Ghost? One of my major gripes about this series is how they neglect the wolves. 

The leaker said he isn't seen after Jon leaves Winterfell and they saved on SFX so that Nymeria could show up in one scene and one scene only. Which already sounds pretty pointless but he also apparently said the riverlands wouldn't really feature so Idk where or why Nymeria would.

 

31 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

Well, now I'm confused what leaked when. I found the leak with the lines quoted by Edith, but it's missing stuff that I saw in the post I read earlier, like Melisandre saying she's brought ice and fire together. Did the original leaker make more posts that included new stuff like the Melisandre information or is it a fake addition? The post I first read does include some of the same little bits like the cute Drogon moment, but it's not an exact copy.

Yes, he edited and backtracked on multiple points. I believe the failed KL attack changed to Dany defeating Jaime and frying the Tarlys after WotW reported on the Lannister ambush scene. Here's a good summary of some inconsistencies. And here's a timeline of leaks/spoilers.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Lady S.

[SeanC]

Unrelated to the main recent discussion, Yara dying seems like a way for the writers to do an end-run around Dany agreeing to an independent Iron Islands.

[YaddaYadda]

55 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

When Dany is rounding up the survivors, she comes across Randyll and Dickon Tarly, who had allied with Cersei. Randyll refuses to bend the knee

This makes no sense. Does Randyll tell Highgarden to take a hike when they summon their banners and ally themselves with Dany? 

[Edith]

14 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

Well, now I'm confused what leaked when. I found the leak with the lines quoted by Edith, but it's missing stuff that I saw in the post I read earlier, like Melisandre saying she's brought ice and fire together. Did the original leaker make more posts that included new stuff like the Melisandre information or is it a fake addition? The post I first read does include some of the same little bits like the cute Drogon moment, but it's not an exact copy.

There has been so much speculation about the third head, which led to theories like Tyrion Targaryen as a way to get him a dragon, that the Night's King being the third head feels like an exciting twist that I want to be true; I can't remember ever seeing a serious discussion of that possibility, the way I've been seeing Fake Aegon theories since before AFFC was published. It's unexpected but I think it could make sense, thinking about the "dragons as nukes" thing: with the NK riding Viserion fire and not just ice would be a danger to the realm, and it would allow one or both of the remaining dragons to die fighting Viserion so that the Targaryens will be less superpowered after they win.

The one that I quote is apparently a PM conversation that this person had with other user. In this one he change a few things or answer a few plot points from the original one, like the ill-advise attack on KL. 

Here is the link to the post where you can find it. 

https://m.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/57w3yw/my_awayforthelads_season_7_spoiler_timeline/

48 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

At this point it cannot be denied that some portion of the leaks are true. It may be a relatively small portion, if the leaker only had information about the Spanish filming (meaning only the exterior scenes in the south) and filled in the missing information himself, but a portion is 100% on the money.

The leaker was a bit garbled, but "clarified" later that there is no attack on KL. The only big battle of the season will be the "ambush" scene filmed in Caceres, which is a Lannister-on-Lannister ambush with Dothraki, Unsullied, horses, the works.

As I understand it, this is the leaker's sequence of events in Season 7 as it relates to Jon and Dany's storyline:

Jon has a dispute with Sansa and Lyanna Mormont over what is to be done with the Umber and Karstark lands; Sansa and Lyanna want the heirs (played by Megan Parkinson and the young male actor) stripped of their lands, to be given to those Northern lords who were loyal in the fight against Ramsay. Jon refuses. He receives a letter from Dany (Episode 2?) summoning all the leaders of armies. He needs dragonglass, which exists in abundance in the Dragonstone caves, and so he decides to go south with Davos. Sansa isn't thrilled about this until he leaves her in charge; there's no real conflict between them, since she's all about power and he doesn't care about power at all. Jon meets Dany very early on. They get off to a rough start (Dany wants Jon to bend the knee and he refuses, she doesn't believe his claims about the WWs), but their relationship gradually gets warmer and flirtier over the course of the season. They proceed to spend most of the season together. Jon takes issue with Dany's liberal attitude towards killing people by pointing out that Jon has slain many enemies, a point Jon apparently concedes.

Although she lands safely at Dragonstone without incident, Dany's campaign to take Westeros gets off to a rough start. Euron disposes of her Dornish allies in short order, killing Nym and Obara and forcing Ellaria to watch Tyene die after he imprisons them both and poisons Tyene (Cersei's "gift" for Myrcella). The Dorne storyline, or what's left of it, will be done in the first couple of episodes. Things don't go any better for Theon and Yara. Euron boards Yara's ship and puts a knife to Yara's throat. Theon freaks out and jumps overboard. He survives, but the Ironborn lose all respect for him. He returns to Dragonstone, only to be confronted by an angry Jon (who tells him the only reason he'll spare his life is what he did for Sansa). Tyrion also talks Dany out of a direct attack on KL, convincing her that most of the people who would die would be innocents.

Another problem is Jaime proving to be a more capable commander than Tyrion anticipated. Jaime marches Lannister troops to Highgarden and easily conquers it. Olenna admits to murdering Joffrey. Jaime allows her to drink poison rather than face Cersei's wrath and she dies at the end of Episode 3. Dany decides to attack Jaime's troops as they are marching back to King's Landing, even though Tyrion advises against it. Apparently, Jon is left back at Dragonstone or on the sidelines during this attack, although he pets Drogon when Dany returns. It's not clear from the leaker who wins (he has contradicted himself on this point), but all the main characters involved survive the battle. Jaime and Bronn wind up fleeing after Bronn saves Jaime. When Dany is rounding up the survivors, she comes across Randyll and Dickon Tarly, who had allied with Cersei. Randyll refuses to bend the knee, so Dany orders them both burned, even though Tyrion strongly counsels against it. Tyrion is horrified, and both Varys and Tyrion are left worrying about whether they'll be able to control their queen.

In the aftermath of the ambush debacle, Tyrion and Davos head to King's Landing on a secret mission to attempt to persuade Jaime to abandon Cersei and surrender to Dany. Jaime refuses. Davos seeks out Gendry in Flea Bottom and this leads to Gendry accompanying Tyrion and Davos when they leave KL. By this time, Jorah has arrived at Dragonstone, cured of his greyscale (by Sam in Oldtown, apparently). Jon decides that what's needed is proof of the existence of the undead threat to persuade Cersei and to avoid bloodshed, and he leaves with a small group including Davos, Gendry, and Jorah. 

Operation Wight Retrieval takes this group to Eastwatch, where Tormund is manning the post. He has Beric, Thoros and the Hound in his dungeon. They all wind up part of the expedition. The expedition is successful, but at great cost: Thoros dies via a wightified polar bear, Dany comes north with the dragons to bail them out and Viserion is killed by the NK, etc. The survivors of the mission, including the Hound, head south. At some point (Episode 6?), Jon agrees to renounce his KITN title in exchange for Dany's assistance against the WW.

At the dragonpit, Team Cersei and Team Jon/Dany meet for a parley. Cersei is shown the wight, who keeps resurrecting despite the Mountain slashing it to pieces. Jaime and Cersei are shaken by this; Cersei agrees to an armistice and to send the remaining Lannister armies north to fight the WW, but privately tells Jaime she intends to renege on this promise so that she'll only have the undead to deal with rather than Dany and Jon's multiple armies. Jaime is disgusted by this and abandons her to head north.

The season culminates with Jon and Dany having sex as they head north, followed by the Wall coming down as a wightified Viserion with the NK as its mount busts through.

In other spoilers, Sam discovers that Rhaegar's marriage to Elia was annulled and another marriage to Lyanna was recorded, with one child being recorded ("Aegon," apparently). Sam ditches the maesters in Episode 5 and heads for Winterfell.

Assuming the leaks are all true: the Jon wight retrieval mission comes on the heels of Davos and Tyrion's failure to negotiate Jaime's peaceful surrender. The fact that Davos accompanied Tyrion to KL suggests that Jon supported or at least didn't oppose Tyrion's attempt to procure KL for Dany through peaceful means. We also know that Tyrion has returned by the time Jon leaves on his mission (since Davos and Gendry accompany Jon and Tyrion sees them off). I think it's pretty clear in context that Jon is getting a wight not to persuade Dany but to persuade Cersei and thereby end the conflict without excessive bloodshed.

Yeah in the original leaks that's the feeling but the corrections he made latter since to give a different feeling or maybe is just my wishful thinking...

But if this is the case then... Going wight hunting to convince Dany of WW threat is an extreme but logical thinking on Jon side. Dragons/fire are the perfect weapon to defeat them. Going into at deadly quest (risking everybody's life) to convince Cersei Lannister of all people is the most stupid idea Jon could come out with, and the fact that Tyrion of all people agrees with this is just dumbing down a lot smart characters.

[Eyes High]

24 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

The leaker said he isn't seen after Jon leaves Winterfell and they saved on SFX so that Nymeria could show up in one scene and one scene only. Which already sounds pretty pointless but he also apparently said the riverlands wouldn't really feature so Idk where or why Nymeria would.

I'm pretty skeptical about Nymeria. If every troll who claimed Nymeria would show up in past seasons had been right, Nymeria would have had multiple appearances beginning in Season 3, and she probably would have eaten all the Freys and whoever's left on Arya's list by now.

Quote

This makes no sense. Does Randyll tell Highgarden to take a hike when they summon their banners and ally themselves with Dany? 

So according to the leaker, Cersei had successfully persuaded the Tarlys to switch their allegiance from the Reach to her as the one true queen (I guess because the Tyrells are traitors to the Crown...?). Randyll buys into this and refuses to bend the knee when Dany demands it. Dany orders Drogon to burn him and Dickon.

This should be really easy to disprove or prove. Any burning scene would be filmed in the outdoors in the same area as the battle (the private estate near Las Brenas in Malpartida). So if Cormac McClaggen--or whatever Dickon's actor's real name is, he'll always be Cormac McClaggen to me--and the actor playing Randyll Tarly show up in Caceres, and so far no one in Spain for GOT filming has been able to hide their presence, there's your answer.

I can buy Randyll and Dickon Tarly dying in the show for purely meta reasons: to enable TV Sam to inherit as Lord of Horn Hill (heck, maybe to get the entire Reach now that all the TV Tyrells are dead). In the books, I'm sure things play out differently.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

22 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'm pretty skeptical about Nymeria. If every troll who claimed Nymeria would show up in past seasons had been right, Nymeria would have had multiple appearances beginning in Season 3, and she probably would have eaten all the Freys and whoever's left on Arya's list by now.

I actually buy the Nymeria scene, because (a) the writers probably need to address that she's still out there and (b) the writers, at this point, are clearly fed up with the direwolves and want to minimize them as much as possible (I'm surprised they passed on the chance to kill Ghost at the Battle of the Bastards).

[amandawoods]

I'd rather have a second longer on a direwolf scene than a polar bear wight. 

[WearyTraveler]

If I have one major gripe with the show, it's the extreme direwolf discrimination!

[Wouter]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

If the leaker is pretty much in the dark about what goes on at Winterfell this season and was only guessing, that opens up a number of possibilities for the Winterfell plot. I kind of hope the leaker got it wrong, because the plot as described--LF tries to turn Sansa and Arya against each other, but Bran helps Sansa see the truth about LF and she orders his execution via Arya--sounds pretty bland.

I think it sounds rather good. Based on the books and the show, the Sansa storyline has been building towards a student/master relationship between Sansa and LF, eventually broken when she realises the full truth about him. Similar to Arya and the Faceless Men (allhough in the show she did not consider Jaquen a clear enemy, even in the end).

I think the show is using the basic outcome of what may be Sansa's main book storyline payoff: isolated in the Vale, Sansa will follow in LF's footsteps until Arya returns and finds her (GRRM has more or less implied they would have a confrontation, and if it's true that Arya and Jon don't meet in the coming season this is an indication she won't be going north, at first, in the books) and Bran finds a way to communicate through magic means with either or both of them. Once they realise the truth of LF's involvement in the disasters that befell the Starks - the execution of their father first and foremost - Sansa turns on him and Arya is the one who kills him.

The storyline also could cause the actresses to become emotional about it, if the sisters finally unite against a common threat after a final dose of suspicion of hostility between them. 

I'd imagine that having LF killed would be quite emotional for Sansa, both because of anger and because of a residual feeling/respect for him.

5 hours ago, SeanC said:

The things that don't make much sense to me are the suggested plot points around Littlefinger using that letter and Bran resolving the whole thing using a vision.  The former, especially; nothing about that letter would constitute a damning revelation.  And while I expect Littlefinger's story will end with his worst deeds coming back to bite him (indeed, I've argued that in the past), Bran randomly deciding to look into Littlefinger's backstory at the tail end of the season seems rather arbitrary (though that, again, just highlights how I'm not sure how this story will work with somebody with Bran's powers around).

Bran could reveal something else in a vision: LF advising Joffrey that "a king acts boldly" and that he needs to show no mercy to traitors, whatever weak women like Cersei say.

As for the letter, if LF shows this letter to Arya in order to further fan the hostility between them ("look at it - your sister willingly betrayed your father and sides with the Lannisters!"), then Arya could be angry with Sansa at first and Sansa wouldn't like it one bit after she found out LF told her about that (without showing the actual context).

Sure, it would require Arya to be way too trustworthy of LF but that's a common affliction on the show (and to a lesser extent in the books).

Once they turn together on LF, much of the hostile feelings between Arya and Sansa would likely be gone. It does have an endgame feeling, leaving only the invasion of the WW (and how big will their part in that be?) and the aftermath (for the survivors, anyway).

[Wouter]

3 hours ago, Edith said:

There's something about the leaks that I still can't wrap my head around (a part from pregnancy and stupidity) how can't dany not believe in WW? Doesn't she remember her HOTU vision? How can she, a person who can't be burned, who has seen magic for herself don't believe there's something magic beyond the wall? isn't that a little illogic? 

All this IF the leaks are true of course 

The HOTU-vision on the show didn't involve the White Walkers IIRC? Magic isn't unheard of in Westeros, but this massive Undead army is considered to be a fairytale. "snarks and grumkins".

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

This makes no sense. Does Randyll tell Highgarden to take a hike when they summon their banners and ally themselves with Dany? 

If the leaker is right, apparently so. It's internally consistent with some of his other claims though; if the Tarlys turn on the Tyrells after those declare for Dany, possibly along with other lords, it would explain why the Lannisters can defeat the Tyrells fairly easily. A portion of the Tyrell army, along with their best commander, would have switched to the Lannisters.

[WearyTraveler]

Could the letter (if it exists) be the one they asked Sansa to write after Robert died and they put Ned in jail?

[Avaleigh]

Damn, I haven't checked up on the spoilers for awhile so my mind is pretty blown right now. 

As somebody who is/was convinced that Tyrion will ride a dragon, I actually like the possible spoiler that the NK will end up riding Viserion. If we can't have an ice dragon then this is the next best thing, so I'm kind of hoping this happens even if the downside is no follow through with all of the book hints that Tyrion will eventually become a dragonrider possibly by healing or helping Viserion. 

I'm very excited about Jon and Dany having scenes together and hope that we get some more Targaryen backstory on the show. 

It never occurred to me that Jon would touch a dragon other than Rhaegal. Where is Rhaegal? He's the only dragon I didn't see mentioned in the spoilers. 

The writing for Jaime will never be right, so I guess I just have to feel happy that he will at least eventually leave Cersei. I will say that I like the idea of him leaving her because of her being an asshole as opposed to him sneaking away in the dead of night because Tyrion convinced him to be on Team Dany. 

I really, really, really hope that the Olenna and Sand Snake spoilers are true especially Ellaria being forced to watch Tyene die before suffering a death of her own. Even better that it seems the Sand Snakes will be wrapped up quickly. 

Olenna admitting that she killed Joffrey and hopefully also mentioning that she did the world a favor sounds like it's going to be a great scene if it happens.  

The only thing that doesn't sound that exciting to me is LF's storyline. It doesn't sound like he'll be up to anything interesting. I've been looking forward to this character's death for almost ten years and now that it's getting closer I'm worried that it will be anti climactic. Arya certainly isn't the person I'd most want to see kill him. If it has to be a Stark, I'd rather it be Sansa since they've had so much more interaction. 

I hope that the Theon/Yara spoilers play out a little differently. The idea of Theon freaking out and bailing on his sister to save himself rather than fighting with her and dying by her side disappoints me. Maybe she told him to leave her and he did what she asked. That wouldn't be so bad but if he just panics once Euron catches up with them I'll be disappointed. I'm not expecting Theon to be superman just loyal to the last person who still loves and cares for him. 

I missed whether or not Jon and Bran are supposed to have scenes together next season but I'm guessing not?

[SeanC]

25 minutes ago, Wouter said:

I'd imagine that having LF killed would be quite emotional for Sansa, both because of anger and because of a residual feeling/respect for him.

If we're to take her public sentiments as genuine, Sophie will be one of the few people to mourn Littlefinger's death.

Quote

Bran could reveal something else in a vision: LF advising Joffrey that "a king acts boldly" and that he needs to show no mercy to traitors, whatever weak women like Cersei say.

Unless they filmed that back in Season 1, they wouldn't be able to do a flashback like that.

17 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

Could the letter (if it exists) be the one they asked Sansa to write after Robert died and they put Ned in jail?

The spoilers were clear that that was the letter.  My issue is, Arya would have to be really dumb to consider this a smoking gun of disloyalty (or for Littlefinger to think that would work); Sansa was a hostage in the complete power of the Lannisters, and for all Arya knows she wrote it at swordpoint.  Or, as actually happened, under the impression, under serious delusion.

[Wouter]

20 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

As somebody who is/was convinced that Tyrion will ride a dragon, I actually like the possible spoiler that the NK will end up riding Viserion. If we can't have an ice dragon then this is the next best thing, so I'm kind of hoping this happens even if the downside is no follow through with all of the book hints that Tyrion will eventually become a dragonrider possibly by healing or helping Viserion.

I'm also surprised there doesn't seem to be a hint of Tyrion being a dragonrider, and this after the show had a promising scene in early S6 (unchaining the dragons).

Viserion, and presumably Rhaegal  (though not mentioned), apparently follow Drogon to the north, if the leaks are correct?

3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

If we're to take her public sentiments as genuine, Sophie will be one of the few people to mourn Littlefinger's death.

Unless they filmed that back in Season 1, they wouldn't be able to do a flashback like that.

The spoilers were clear that that was the letter.  My issue is, Arya would have to be really dumb to consider this a smoking gun of disloyalty (or for Littlefinger to think that would work); Sansa was a hostage in the complete power of the Lannisters, and for all Arya knows she wrote it at swordpoint.  Or, as actually happened, under the impression, under serious delusion.

Couldn't they get Jack Gleeson to quietly film such a scene in a studio somewhere?

As for the letter, in the book equivalent Robb did believe Sansa wrote it and meant it ("what's wrong with her!?"). Catelyn had to explain to him that Cersei effectively had been holding the pen for Sansa.

20 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I missed whether or not Jon and Bran are supposed to have scenes together next season but I'm guessing not?

 

Not if the leak can be believed.

[SeanC]

16 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Couldn't they get Jack Gleeson to quietly film such a scene in a studio somewhere?

I was thinking more about actor age, but I guess Gleeson doesn't look as different today compared to back in 2010 when he filmed that scene, since he was older.

My bigger issue with that plot point is that it feels very arbitrary to me to have the key turning point in Sansa's relationship with Baelish, her main antagonist, hinge on somebody who has not mattered even a tiny bit in her story up to that point.  In the past in this thread we've debated the implications of the Hound potentially telling Sansa that Baelish betrayed Ned, and I can see the counterargument that it's a bad idea (I've made versions of that argument myself in the past), but if nothing else, Sansa's relationship to the Hound has been a big part of her story (in the books, anyway), so him being a big part of the climax doesn't feel like an intrusion to me.  Bran is one of the most important characters in ASOIAF (maybe the single-most important, for all we know), but he's had nothing whatsoever to do with Sansa's narrative.