Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

Another upside of a Dany/Brienne/Davos scene is that it should lead to a Pod/Tyrion reunion. Tyrion is likely present at the dragonpit (Dany is accompanied by "trusted allies, such as Missandei"), and where Brienne goes, Pod always follows.

[OhOkayWhat]

Just now, Chris24601 said:

If her expression and the discordant tones playing under her last scene were any indication, I'd think it likely that Arya next goes to King's Landing to trying and cross her last two names off. There she'd run into Gendry (last seen being told to row back to Fleabottom) who could work on getting her to give up her vengeance. Only once Arya's got the vengeance out of her system (one way or the other) do I think she'll be able to go back to her family.

Dealing with her need for vengeance is likely going to be Arya's story arc for most of the next season.

Very interesting commentary. And yes, the very eerie look in her face after killing Lord Frey is scary. Something is very wrong inside her.

I think she will be able to leave vengeance behind, but I suspect, even if Gendry helps on that, it will be mostly Sandor job. Arya emotional narrative is much more related to Sandor than anyone else, except maybe, her family. You do not need romance to built a strong connection between two characters and Arya-Sandor are the proof of that. Also, if you ask me, I do not think Arya/Gendry is endgame, at least in the show.

Just now, Eyes High said:

Another upside of a Dany/Brienne/Davos scene is that it should lead to a Pod/Tyrion reunion. Tyrion is likely present at the dragonpit (Dany is accompanied by "trusted allies, such as Missandei"), and where Brienne goes, Pod always follows.

And now I am worried about Pod. Rumors mention Missandei in that meeting, why they did not mention Podrick? Maybe Brienne tells him to stay in Winterfell to watch over Sansa? I hope that is the case.

Edited October 14, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[Eyes High]

12 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

And now I am worried about Pod. Rumors mention Missandei in that meeting, why they did not mention Podrick? Maybe Brienne tells him to stay in Winterfell to watch over Sansa? I hope that is the case.

WOTW came out and said that Missandei was there, so it wasn't a rumour. WOTW also phrased the spoiler very carefully:

Quote

Today, we received a spoiler update from a reliable source confirming that Daenerys will be at the Dragonpit, and that she’ll be meeting with several familiar characters there. In addition to Dany’s trusted allies such as Missandei, she’ll be meeting with characters from other storylines. And that’s where it gets really good. Our source tells us that Daenerys will have at least one scene where she’s speaking with Davos Seaworth and Brienne of Tarth.

"Several familiar characters," including "Dany's trusted allies such as Missandei," and "characters from other storylines."

The WOTW spoiler stated that Dany had other "trusted allies" present, of whom Missandei was given as an example. I suspect that WOTW's list of characters from the Northern storyline present at the dragonpit--Davos and Brienne--is similarly non-exhaustive. It could be that there are a lot of characters in this meeting scene, but due to spoilers, WOTW is only telling us about four of them (Dany, Missandei, Davos and Brienne).

Edited October 14, 2016 by Eyes High

[SeanC]

4 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

Going along with that, Winterfell was already under Jon/Sansa's control with enough time for the Lords from across the entire North (who did not participate in the battle) to gather. So if Arya wanted to go home and reunite with her sister and half-brother/cousin she could have done so in the final episode, but she chose vengeance on the Freys (who weren't going anywhere) instead.

I don't disagree that some of the producers' commentary about the finale would lend credence to the possibility of Arya pursuing vengeance in the next season, given how slapdash the show is in how information travels, I don't think you can just assume that Arya has heard about the fall of the Boltons at that point, seeing as there's no indication that anybody else in the south has.

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

The WOTW spoiler stated that Dany had other "trusted allies" present, of whom Missandei was given as an example. I suspect that WOTW's list of characters from the Northern storyline present at the dragonpit--Davos and Brienne--is similarly non-exhaustive. It could be that there are a lot of characters in this meeting scene, but due to spoilers, WOTW is only telling us about four of them (Dany, Missandei, Davos and Brienne).

From the phrasing, it sounds like there won't be just one scene in the Dragonpit, so the characters from other storylines could be appearing in different scenes, as well.  But just thinking on it, at this point, how many storylines are there?

1.  Team Dany

2.  Team Jon

3.  Team Cersei (she'll be facing Dany, but I'd consider this a separate storyline since it's probably got its own resolution independent of anything Dany does)

4.  Sam

5.  [Riverlands?]

[Chris24601]

2 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

I think she will be able to leave vengeance behind, but I suspect, even if Gendry helps on that, it will be mostly Sandor job. Arya emotional narrative is much more related to Sandor than anyone else, except maybe, her family. You do not need romance to built a strong connection between two characters and Arya-Sandor are the proof of that. Also, if you ask me, I do not think Arya/Gendry is endgame, at least in the show.

Oh, I basically agree with you regarding Arya/Sandor being more important than Arya/Gendry. There's a reason why Gendry is turning up in the second-to-last season after all and I expect Gendry's story to end this season and not carry into the final season while I think Arya/Sandor will go right up to the grand finale.

My personal speculation is that Arya will meet up with the Hound (and likely Melisandre) and make for King's Landing (the Hound being told by religious fanatics going north that "you have a destiny" is basically an invitation for him to head in the opposite direction if he sticks to character) with the intention of crossing Cersie and the Mountain off her list. Once there she'll meet up with Gendry and he'll work on getting her to pull back from her vengeance kick... and I think he'll ALMOST reach her, but then he'll die and it will be left to the Hound (i.e. basically the worst possible candidate to do the job, making him the perfect choice in a narrative sense) to save Arya's soul from an endless cycle of vengeance.

Add to that Arya's "West of Westeros" remarks being such an utterly out of left-field concept (it is found nowhere in the books or brought up anyplace else in the series) and I can only presume that it relates to Arya's ultimate ending being so changed by her experiences that she opts NOT to return to the life she knew but to go looking for a new one where she can find peace, thus sailing off into the sunset "West of Westeros" (i.e. the traditional non-ending ending for the Wandering Hero archetype).

Edited October 14, 2016 by Chris24601

[OhOkayWhat]

Just now, Chris24601 said:

Oh, I basically agree with you regarding Arya/Sandor being more important than Arya/Gendry. There's a reason why Gendry is turning up in the second-to-last season after all and I expect Gendry's story to end this season and not carry into the final season while I think Arya/Sandor will go right up to the grand finale.

My personal speculation is that Arya will meet up with the Hound (and likely Melisandre) and make for King's Landing (the Hound being told by religious fanatics going north that "you have a destiny" is basically an invitation for him to head in the opposite direction if he sticks to character) with the intention of crossing Cersie and the Mountain off her list. Once there she'll meet up with Gendry and he'll work on getting her to pull back from her vengeance kick... and I think he'll ALMOST reach her, but then he'll die and it will be left to the Hound (i.e. basically the worst possible candidate to do the job, making him the perfect choice in a narrative sense) to save Arya's soul from an endless cycle of vengeance.

Exactly. I agree with you about the way the narrative will use Gendry. I also remember Maisie recently said something like "it will be heartbreaking for the fans..." and if she was talking about her own storyline I mostly think on two possibilities of really heartbreaking events:

-The death of Gendry

-The death of Sandor

And I agree with you that the showrunners see Sandor as a more important element within the show. Therefore, it seems like they use the death of Gendry as a breaking point in Arya story. Of course, Sandor will deal with the mess the young wolf will become after such tragedy.

I disagree a bit about Sandor and BwB. I think he is open a little bit to the possibility to go North for the good of humankind even if he does not admit it yet (even to himself), but it is a process. He also needs to change more, maybe his journey with Arya going South will help him to continue his change from someone who killed "Mycahs" to someone who will work to save them in season 8. In any case, once he find stubborn Arya wants to go South, he will go with her.

Just now, Chris24601 said:

Add to that Arya's "West of Westeros" remarks being such an utterly out of left-field concept (it is found nowhere in the books or brought up anyplace else in the series) and I can only presume that it relates to Arya's ultimate ending being so changed by her experiences that she opts NOT to return to the life she knew but to go looking for a new one where she can find peace, thus sailing off into the sunset "West of Westeros" (i.e. the traditional non-ending ending for the Wandering Hero archetype).

Agree with all of this too, with a exception. I also think a "West of Westeros" ending is very possible. And it fits very well with her narrative. The wandering hero looking for a chance to help people while he/she heals his/her own deep wounds, fits very well with Arya story. And with Sandor story too. If he survives, I can imagine them both having a bit of a "Bruce Banner" future narrative, but on a ship going West, or something like that.

I disagree about her never returning, if that is what you meant, of course. I think we will have a "Dream of Spring" ending too where we will not see the Spring, but we will see glimpses of a better future for the characters. In Arya case, I suspect, the last episodes will show us that someday Arya will return and that maybe she will find something close to a normal life, but it will come only after several years (and I am talking about 7,8,10 years) of wandering trying to find herself and help people. Some sort of Dunk and Egg, maybe, but with a different taste, of course.

Just now, Eyes High said:

... It could be that there are a lot of characters in this meeting scene, but due to spoilers, WOTW is only telling us about four of them....

If it means Pod is alive, I really hope you are right!

Just now, SeanC said:

I don't disagree that some of the producers' commentary about the finale would lend credence to the possibility of Arya pursuing vengeance in the next season, given how slapdash the show is in how information travels, I don't think you can just assume that Arya has heard about the fall of the Boltons at that point, seeing as there's no indication that anybody else in the south has.

In my opinion, I think it goes beyond if she does know or not about it. Vengeance/darkness is a huge theme in Arya narrative, and the best way the narrative have to deal with it is going to Kings Landing, or at least remaining in the Riverlands more time.

Edited October 14, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[Chris24601]

38 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

I disagree a bit about Sandor and BwB. I think he is open a little bit to the possibility to go North for the good of humankind even if he does not admit it yet (even to himself), but it is a process. He also needs to change more, maybe his journey with Arya going South will help him to continue his change from someone who killed "Mycahs" to someone who will work to save them in season 8. In any case, once he find stubborn Arya wants to go South, he will go with her.

I think we're both pretty much saying the same thing with different words. I think he might be open to being more of a hero as well, but he's still in a place now where he'll jump at ANY opportunity to not follow that path and that Arya will be that route. Then when Arya implodes after Gendry's is killed (because its not going to be natural death... someone will be responsible because that gives Arya a final target* for her vengeance) it will be Sandor stuck in the position of having to save someone anyway and will then rise to the occasion.

I also tend to believe Sandor will go with Arya "West of Westeros"... indeed "the Scarred-Man" (or whatever he ends up being called in legends) might be the only way to recognize just who "the Faceless Girl" really is for the audience. There's an ironic and yet also iconic symmetry to a man who'd probably give anything to hide the scars on his face that make him immediately distinctive traveling with a girl who can appear to be anyone. That's the sort of thing that gets remembered and put into storybooks.

In that vein, while Arya might return home some day, I don't think its something we will ever see in the series, because the more I dwell on it, the more I believe the narrative of this story  (particularly with all their focus on songs and stories of long ago events in the novels) is something of "The Story Behind the Story." That what we're seeing is the events that will one day be recorded in story and song as practically archetypes of heroes and villains (my personal crack-theory is that the Opening Theme is actually THE Song of Ice and Fire and the words to the song are the story of the events we're witnessing unfold).

In that sense, the end of Arya's tale is that is does not have an end... because the tale of the Wandering Hero always ends with the hero departing to where they're needed next.

* I have a sneaking suspicion that her final target will be Dany because Gendry will be collateral damage in her taking of King's Landing.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, Chris24601 said:

(the Hound being told by religious fanatics going north that "you have a destiny" is basically an invitation for him to head in the opposite direction if he sticks to character)

The Hound has been searching for meaning in his life (a theme that, granted, the show has largely ignored up to this point), which is emphasized in the conversation where Thoros says he still has a chance to do something positive.

Unrelatedly, more WOTW info:

- Jon will be meeting Theon at some point in the season, at it won't involve Theon traveling North.

- L7R seems to imply that Isaac Hempstead-Wright was filming a scene with Edd and the NW men on the day that he was caught in the paparazzi photos, though that's ambiguous.

[OhOkayWhat]

Just now, Chris24601 said:

In that vein, while Arya might return home some day, I don't think its something we will ever see in the series, because the more I dwell on it, the more I believe the narrative of this story  (particularly with all their focus on songs and stories of long ago events in the novels) is something of "The Story Behind the Story." That what we're seeing is the events that will one day be recorded in story and song as practically archetypes of heroes and villains (my personal crack-theory is that the Opening Theme is actually THE Song of Ice and Fire and the words to the song are the story of the events we're witnessing unfold).

I agree on that too. I think we will have an "open ending" story with some characters, Arya is one of them. And yes, after they revealed the astrolabe thing in the open credits is in fact an object in the big library of Oldtown (very nice detail, btw) I suspect everything will become at the end, the story of the events that someone is narrating or writing or something like that.

 

Just now, SeanC said:

The Hound has been searching for meaning in his life (a theme that, granted, the show has largely ignored up to this point), which is emphasized in the conversation where Thoros says he still has a chance to do something positive.

I disagree, if anything, in the show, he is looking for a meaning in his life, even if he is not aware of it, and he is going from a point where he is the person who causes harm to becoming the person who tries to protect. Of course, in such violent world, he still is a very violent man, and he will have lots of ups and downs in this emotional journey. He is kinda like a Ronin, and the way the showrunners wrote him is really good. I am also glad they removed most of the "Beauty and Beast" undertones of the book-Sandor, and focused more in his story with Arya. That way, his storyline becomes more compelling, or at least, that is my opinion.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Unrelatedly, more WOTW info:

- Jon will be meeting Theon at some point in the season, at it won't involve Theon traveling North.

I laughed at this development.

L7R: "We're not going to tell you which Greyjoy sees Jon! :)"

*fewer than 24 hours later*

L7R: "Theon. It's Theon who sees Jon."

Seems like implicit confirmation that it's Yara who gets captured by Euron.

In other news, some dude/lady on Reddit provided a fairly detailed set of supposed spoilers for Season 7 over the past few weeks. The usual BS, right? Detailed foiler outlines are a dime a dozen, except...said dude has accurately predicted certain spoilers before they were released: Jon meeting Theon, for example. A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that, but it could be that the poster got some legit secondhand information somehow, even if his explanation for how he came by the information is less than compelling. A summary of this guy's (gal's?) spoilers/foilers can be found here.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Eyes High

[OhOkayWhat]

Just now, Eyes High said:

I laughed at this development.

L7R: "We're not going to tell you which Greyjoy sees Jon! :)"

*fewer than 24 hours later*

L7R: "Theon. It's Theon who sees Jon."

Seems like implicit confirmation that it's Yara who gets captured by Euron.

In other news, some dude/lady on Reddit provided a fairly detailed set of supposed spoilers for Season 7 over the past few weeks. The usual BS, right? Detailed foiler outlines are a dime a dozen, except...said dude has accurately predicted certain spoilers before they were released: Jon meeting Theon, for example. A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that, but it could be that the poster got some legit secondhand information somehow, even if his explanation for how he came by the information is less than compelling. A summary of this guy's (gal's?) spoilers/foilers can be found here.

Yes, I have been following those "leaks" discussion in different forums. My theory is this: maybe it is a case of "broken telephone game" where the guy/girl is the friend of a friend of a writer (although some people said he/she said he/she actually read the  scripts). So, maybe, some stuff is real, some stuff is not, and some stuff happens in a different order, even if the guy/girl is actually trying to say the truth.

Edited October 15, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

In other news, some dude/lady on Reddit provided a fairly detailed set of supposed spoilers for Season 7 over the past few weeks. The usual BS, right? Detailed foiler outlines are a dime a dozen, except...said dude has accurately predicted certain spoilers before they were released: Jon meeting Theon, for example. A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that, but it could be that the poster got some legit secondhand information somehow, even if his explanation for how he came by the information is less than compelling. A summary of this guy's (gal's?) spoilers/foilers can be found here.

Some of that is so counter-intuitive that I'd almost be inclined to give it credence because it doesn't seem like something a person making fake spoilers would do if they were trying to fool people (Littlefinger trying to use Sansa's letter from Season 1 to play Arya against Sansa, and this is somehow his undoing; Gilly finding a record of Rhaegar annulling his marriage to Elia at the Citadel), but I've seen enough fake spoilers to know that some people do do that anyway.

[Minneapple]

So according to that guy, Jon's real name is Aegon. WTF. So Rhaegar named a second son Aegon? I guess he is the George Foreman of Westeros.

Also Jon and Dany have sex as the wall's coming down. Hahahahaha and shudder. 

But maybe there's some veracity to the spoilers. I'd say it's a mix of real and fake.

[anamika]

Yeah, I think he has mixed up some real and fake spoilers in there. So the writers hype up Jon Vs Sansa/LF and it becomes Arya Vs Sansa/LF?

Though if Jon does go south, maybe he does narrowly miss an Arya who heads home and meets up with Sansa. 

Jon going south of Winterfell?! Interesting. Why and what for? So much to speculate here.

Maybe they are going to kickstart the Jon/Dany meeting early on. If there is going to be a Jon/Dany/Tyrion love triangle they may need to meet earlier.  I was assuming any Jon/Dany marriage is going to be political but maybe the TV show needs them to meet early and make eyes at each other.

Bran's story seems to be moving rather slowly which tells me that once again they are going to use him for flash back exposition and he is going to be stuck at the wall.

Looking forward to Jon and Theon interacting. I am guessing that Theon is joining back into his TWoW book plot here. He just took a detour to Essos on the show. In the books, he and Asha are with Stannis and I foresee him and Jon meeting in TWoW.

Edited October 15, 2016 by anamika

[TxanGoddess]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

In other news, some dude/lady on Reddit provided a fairly detailed set of supposed spoilers for Season 7 over the past few weeks. The usual BS, right? Detailed foiler outlines are a dime a dozen, except...said dude has accurately predicted certain spoilers before they were released: Jon meeting Theon, for example. A stopped clock is right twice a day and all that, but it could be that the poster got some legit secondhand information somehow, even if his explanation for how he came by the information is less than compelling. A summary of this guy's (gal's?) spoilers/foilers can be found here.

Dude I really hope your broken clock theory turns out to be correct here.  I mean, it'll be whatever it'll be, but that shit on reddit just reads as so fucking amateurish ...

From the link:

• The Wall will fall at the end of the season, while Jon and Dany have sex.

Oh FFS!  So Jon is literally dicking around when the war he's spent two seasons trying to prepare for begins?  What a crock!

ETA:  Hey, wasn't there a report recently from one of the 'fallen' that HBO does stage some of the supposed GoT leaks themselves?  Maybe they're planting fake spoilers too? 

Edited October 15, 2016 by TxanGoddess
wrong ur and then added something I forgot

[TxanGoddess]

It's kind of funny to imagine this playing out as a real leak getting busted too though ...

D&D:  You disappoint us Assistant A.

Assistant A:  Why, I'm your loyal servant!

D&D:  So loyal that you posted the spoilers we talked about with you to reddit.

Assistant A:  No, never, it's a falsehood; it wasn't me!  It was Assistant B ... yes Assistant B, the traitor ...

D&D:  We told Assistant B that Jon would be having sex with Cersei when the Wall fell.  We told Assistant C that he would be having sex with Sansa when the Wall fell.  We told no one that he would be having sex with Daenerys.  No one but you. 

Edited October 15, 2016 by TxanGoddess

[anamika]

Farewell Missandei?

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Farewell Missandei?

Nathalie's heading to Spain. The dragonpit filming at Italica (where Missandei is present, according to spoilers) is going to start soon. The ruins at Italica will be closed to the public for a month (starting very soon), but filming is only supposed to take a week, I think.

Quote

Maybe they are going to kickstart the Jon/Dany meeting early on. If there is going to be a Jon/Dany/Tyrion love triangle they may need to meet earlier.  I was assuming any Jon/Dany marriage is going to be political but maybe the TV show needs them to meet early and make eyes at each other.

I dunno. Wasn't that the reasoning given by Jon/Sansa fans for Sansa winding up North in Season 6? It seems likely that Jon and Dany meet--those two storylines are going to have to converge at some point, and with only 13 episodes left that's going to happen sooner rather than later--but that doesn't necessarily mean that they hook up.

With that said, I eagerly look forward to Jon/Dany's alleged torrid love affair in Season 7, if only for the inevitable fandom meltdown. Jon/Sansa fans who've convinced themselves that D&D were setting up Jon/Sansa as an endgame pairing in Season 6 are going to lose their minds if/when Jon spends Season 7 flirting with Dany. I can't wait.

As for the truth of the spoilers/foilers, L7R said the following (roughly translated from Spanish):

"On the rumours:

Finally, a notice. We are aware of the leaks which have occurred in the last few hours on the Internet regarding possible extremely detailed information about the seventh season. We won't disseminate or share this information in articles on the web, and we ask that you do the same in the comments.

The reason is very simple: they aren't verified. With total honesty, we don't have any kind of confirmation from any source that these leaks are true.

What did the leaker get right? We don't know. To give an example, last year another user who posted information about the BOTB was celebrated. This person adequately explained the battle and the death of Rickon, but also confirmed other things, like Tormund supposedly dying. Or a strange element: that the bodies on the crosses belonged to Roose and Stannis, something told to some extras but never mentioned or suggested in the series.

We at L7R cannot confirm these leaks and for that reason will not publish them until then. If we confirm any data from these leaks--some are simple to do, such as with the presence of a series of actors in one location or the filming of a scene of which we have proof--we will post it as we have been doing with all spoilers.

Thank you for your understanding and trust."

Edited October 15, 2016 by Eyes High

[loki567]

I don't believe any of it. Anything with Jon sounds completely ridiculous. So Jon goes south where he makes a deal with Cersei, falls in love with Dany, then goes north with one of Dany's dragons beyond the wall, then goes south again so he can end the season having sex with Dany as the Wall falls? Is that right? I mean the idea that the Starks would base their battle strategy based off needing reinforcements from the Lannisters, lol. 

The rest of it's all stuff that could already be vaguely guessed at it.  My guess is this leaker either guessed correctly last season or maybe did get some real information, liked the attention he got from it, and is now just making things up. 

[anamika]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

With that said, I eagerly look forward to Jon/Dany's alleged torrid love affair in Season 7, if only for the inevitable fandom meltdown. Jon/Sansa fans who've convinced themselves that D&D were setting up Jon/Sansa as an endgame pairing in Season 6 are going to lose their minds if/when Jon spends Season 7 flirting with Dany. I can't wait.

LOL! Yes, the outrage is going to be something to behold when Jon/Dany hook up as they inevitably will. All those hints GRRM has been dropping from book one has to come into play sometime. It may be cliche and predictable and what not. But it has been set up and going to happen. I would also like to see these characters interact in any capacity and Kit/Emilia look good together.  I never understood Jon/Sansa given the complete lack of connection between them in the books and their antagonistic relationship in season 6. But then I was also baffled by the Queen in the North narrative that some were pushing for Sansa in season 6 and still do.

I am rather looking forward to Jon moving south and possibly meeting up with the Essos gang. If we get a Kit sighting in Spain that will be grand. Better than him being used as a plot device for the Sansa/LF story. But now I am worried that Arya is going to get caught up in that story, given the spoilers. I would rather Arya head south and take care of Cersei instead.

Edited October 15, 2016 by anamika

[amandawoods]

I hope to god some of those are made up. Jon and dany are traveling south, north, south and north again in 4 episodes.  Theon abandons his sister,  but somehow comes across Jon, and Gendry comes back but doesn't see Arya. Plus I hope there's more for Arya and Sansa to do. They both said parts were heartbreaking but no one dies that the audience would care about. 

[YaddaYadda]

Probably in the minority, but I don't think Arya is going to linger too much in the Riverlands or that we will ever see Nymeria again. I think she connects with the Brotherhood and heads North with them. I'm assuming that by the time the 2nd episode rolls around, everyone will know the North is under Stark control again.

Anyway...

Any kind of spoilers that say that Jon's real name is Aegon lose me right away. Rhaegar was naming his children after Aegon and his sister wives and that name was already taken. 

I can see Theon being the one sent North to treat with Jon, because they know each other. They won't send Tyrion because he is the Hand of the Queen and Dany probably wants him by her side because he basically knows what he's talking about. But yeah, Theon going back to Winterfell after everything he's done and to possibly treat with Jon is interesting, seems to be connecting back with the books. Does Jon execute him for everything that he's done, or does he let him live because he saved Sansa and is Dany's envoy? Jon may not know Dany and he probably hates Theon a whole lot, but he and Tyrion had a really good rapport. 

If that stuff happens to the Sand Snakes, I'm completely down with that. I hope their on screen presence is very limited.

And say no to a pregnant Cersei. Jaime will never leave her if she's pregnant.

[Brn2bwild]

Several of those spoilers seem plausible, but with the exception of the Dragon Pit meeting, any of us could have come up with them.  The ones that I hope aren't true:

• Littlefinger turning Sansa against Arya for most of the season.  FFS, those girls have been apart long enough, and Sansa already mistrusts Littlefinger.  Would she really let him drive a wedge between her and her sister?  There is a natural tension with Jon based on his position, but with Sansa and Arya, it's typical sibling stuff.  Sansa would never put Littlefinger before her sister.  At least I hope.
• Dany and Jon are already an item by mid-season.  That seems way too soon.  She hasn't even reached the shore of Westeros yet.  I would expect them to meet late in the season, maybe even at the end of the season.  And don't get me started on the wall coming down while they're having sex.  Sheesh!*

 

*  Though the show can be so tacky and unsubtle at times, I wouldn't be surprised if that particular spoiler were true.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Brn2bwild

[SeanC]

37 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

And don't get me started on the wall coming down while they're having sex.  Sheesh!*

*  Though the show can be so tacky and unsubtle at times, I wouldn't be surprised if that particular spoiler were true.

That one would be so campy that I kind of want it to be true.

[SeanC]

DocMantisTobogan, the reliable spoiler guy from last season, commented recently that he knows that some of what the new leaker said is true, but he could not confirm it all, simply because he does not know (and also that there's nothing there that he knows to be false).

[anamika]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

DocMantisTobogan, the reliable spoiler guy from last season, commented recently that he knows that some of what the new leaker said is true, but he could not confirm it all, simply because he does not know (and also that there's nothing there that he knows to be false).

I think about 10% true and 90% false.  Jon leaving WF around episode 2 and then spending all his time with Dany makes no sense after they set up Jon Vs Sansa and we get that spiel from David and Dan during comic con about Jon and altruistic groups, dishonorable enemies and selfish individuals etc. 

[OhOkayWhat]

I just don't get some people jumping to conclusions so quickly in other forums. People saying "Dany/Jon confirmed!" while the only thing we know is Jon is traveling South at some point of the season and also that it looks like he sends ambassadors to talk with Dany (Brienne-Davos).....and that is it! We know just a couple of things besides that, but nothing is clear yet.

[Eyes High]

12 hours ago, SeanC said:

DocMantisTobogan, the reliable spoiler guy from last season, commented recently that he knows that some of what the new leaker said is true, but he could not confirm it all, simply because he does not know (and also that there's nothing there that he knows to be false).

For those not in the know, DocMantisTobogan worked on production in Northern Ireland, for Northern stuff and the BOTB for Season 6 (and seems to be back for Season 7). Unlike some other spoiler sources, DMT was smart enough not to shoot off their mouth and post detailed summaries, mostly only confirming or denying what other sources (like truede) had spoiled or claimed to spoil.

This is what DMT had to say about the potential leaker:

Quote

It's entirely possible [that the leaker would have bits of info from every storyline and got the info from a "friend of a friend"]. There are plenty of loose lips on set and people tend to trust friends with this kind of information. There are some crew that travel between countries to shoot too, maybe he knows one of those people.

I had and have direct involvement, but I still got some information [on another storylines] from friends. ;) How much you know really just depends on a lot of different factors.

(...)

No, nothing he has said is confirmed false from me. However that being said, it's very common to see people mixing legitimate leaks with fake leaks to fill in the gaps. Kind of like they're guessing the bits they don't know. I saw a lot of fake leaks last season that had taken snippets of what I'd said and put in total bullshit in between lol. I would take a lot of things he has said with a grain of salt until I know better and confirm, but for now he is correct about a couple of things.

It could be that the leaker got some correct info and strung the rest together with fanfic nonsense, but it sounds like we don't know whether the proportion of leak to nonsense is 10/90, 50/50 or 90/10.

A French newspaper published an article with a quote from the assistant of the Zumaia mayor about the filming at Zumaia (on the beach), roughly translated as follows:

Quote

The Targaryen queen will arrive on a huge boat with fifty rowers and disembark on the beach. After, there's also talk of a scene which must be filmed in a grotto which is only accessible at low tide at the foot of the cliffs. We don't know the rest because it's an absolute secret.

The article later states that preparations will continue for three weeks before the actors arrive, including Emilia Clarke and Peter Dinklage.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

These are exciting spoilers. While I can see Jon sending Davos and Brienne to negotiate with Daenerys, no way to I see her sending Theon to Jon. Given Theon's actions, Jon is far more likely to kill him on the spot. More likely Jon and Theon's meeting is accidental. The only reason that I can come up with for Jon travelling south is if he is looking for obsidian to make weapons to fight the Night King and his army. 

[FemmyV]

24 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The only reason that I can come up with for Jon travelling south is if he is looking for obsidian to make weapons to fight the Night King and his army. 

Well, if Dany lands at Dragonstone, and Jon heads down there looking for obsidian, anything's possible.

Not surprised to hear that LF would try to put a wedge between Sansa and Arya. Arya is Jon's favorite sib, by far, and she can clean a man's clock, the latter of which is going to gain her a great deal of respect from Jon's lieutenants. Considering their past in which Sansa was always the high value "good" sister and Arya was the one being corrected in her behavior, it stands to reason Sansa won't be thrilled with the change in status.

[SimoneS]

No way do I believe that Sansa turns against Arya or Jon. I think that it is far more likely that Sansa pretends to go along with Littlefinger is games and until she figures out his plan and turns on him. I will cheer if Arya kills him although I think that honor belongs to Varys.

It feels a bit early for Jon and Daenerys to be having sex in the upcoming season, but I won't complain it happens. 

Most of these Reddit foilers seem fake to me.

Edited October 17, 2016 by SimoneS

[Lady S.]

First look at Sophie's new wig:

20 hours ago, anamika said:

I think about 10% true and 90% false.  

The craziest part is Cersei randomly being pregnant again. 

[Brn2bwild]

1 minute ago, Lady S. said:

First look at Sophie's new wig:

The craziest part is Cersei randomly being pregnant again. 

Wig, or did she finally dye her hair?

[Lady S.]

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

Wig, or did she finally dye her hair?

She was filming already without having dyed it, and I think this pic is from the same batch as the other Northern actors. That guy's just been releasing the pics on his own staggered schedule.

[SeanC]

26 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Wig, or did she finally dye her hair?

Wig.  She took a few fan photos leaving Belfast today, and her hair is still blonde.

21 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

That guy's just been releasing the pics on his own staggered schedule.

This part I really don't get.  This guy couldn't get a buyer for photos of Isaac or Sophie and is just giving them away for free?

Anyway, good to have all those debates resolved at last.

[Lady S.]

Here's another with strands of her real hair poking out underneath.

[Eyes High]

The wig doesn't look too atrocious.

Quote

This part I really don't get.  This guy couldn't get a buyer for photos of Isaac or Sophie and is just giving them away for free?

I find it hard to believe the Daily Mail would snap up photos of Kit and Maisie on set but not Sophie.

If the leaker is right, Season 7 is pretty light on big deaths (placing these beneath a cut):
 

Spoiler

 

Sand Snakes (killed by Euron)

Olenna (Jaime allows her to drink poison after he sacks Highgarden)

Randall and Dickon Tarly (torched by Dany)

Thoros (dies on the wight-hunting expedition)

Littlefinger (stabbed by Arya on Sansa's orders)

Benjen (dies saving Jon)

Viserion

I'm also guessing things don't go well for Ellaria and Yara if they are indeed captured by Euron, but the leaker hasn't confirmed their deaths.

 

That total seems low, especially when the show averages 2-2.5 named character deaths per episode.

My favourite part of the alleged spoilers, though? Jon, Tormund, Gendry, the Hound, Beric, Thoros, and Jorah heading out on a wight-hunting expedition. That sounds so bananas I have trouble believing that the leaker made it up.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Eyes High

[FemmyV]

What is dead can never die:

Spoiler

Benjen?

[SeanC]

L7R says that, while it's unconfirmed, they've been told that they will be filming Dragonstone scenes in Spain, and that Kit Harington is in-country for filming.

One step closer to Jon and Dany having sex while the Wall falls!

[anamika]

28 minutes ago, SeanC said:

L7R says that, while it's unconfirmed, they've been told that they will be filming Dragonstone scenes in Spain, and that Kit Harington is in-country for filming.

One step closer to Jon and Dany having sex while the Wall falls!

LOL! It's going to be awesome. Probably like Yara's grand speech and rescue attempt of Theon happening against the backdrop of Ramsay and Myranda going at it like bunnies in season 4.

And while I am glad that it looks like Jon will be escaping the Sansa/LF plot from hell and doing more important things (Like having sex with Dany!), if the spoilers are true - then it looks like Arya will now be trapped in that plot and used as LF executioner.  Which, why?!!

Unless this is where her book plot also ends up in TWoW. GRRM did state that Arya and Sansa have issues to resolve and maybe they do it over LF. I am still confused about the whole Jon dealing with selfish individuals bit. Maybe Jon Vs Sansa is dealt with in two episodes.

Edited October 18, 2016 by anamika

[glowbug]

I will find it very odd of Arya and Jon aren't a significant part of their characters' storylines/character development towards the end of the series. While I don't think it will be romantic (I really hope not anyway) the relationship between those two has been set up from the beginning as one of great importance. If there isn't some payoff down the line I'm going to assume it's a show only thing because there are even more hints in the books that those two are important to each other. 

I'm surprised it looks like they're bringing Jon south. I sort of assumed he would remain north and Dany would eventually come to him, though envoys would be sent from both sides before their meeting. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by glowbug

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

L7R says that, while it's unconfirmed, they've been told that they will be filming Dragonstone scenes in Spain, and that Kit Harington is in-country for filming.

One step closer to Jon and Dany having sex while the Wall falls!

LOL, can't wait! 

Also looks like Peter Dinklage (not surprising) and Liam Cunningham have been spotted in Spain (well, the article says it's Liam Cunningham in the photo, Benioff and Dinklage are the only ones I can make out). Unless Davos is there as an ambassador acting on Jon's behalf, it seems to increase the likelihood that Jon is there, too.

The leaker claimed that Dany would be using Dragonstone as a base of operations. Not that that couldn't have been easily predicted by anyone familiar with the show, but still.

1 hour ago, anamika said:

I am still confused about the whole Jon dealing with selfish individuals bit. Maybe Jon Vs Sansa is dealt with in two episodes.

According to the leaker, the high-stakes scene is indeed Team Jon squabbling over what to do with Alys Karstark (the redhead played by Megan Parkinson) and the Umber heir (the 10-year-old boy). Lyanna Mormont and Sansa want to strip them of their lands and give the Karstark/Umber lands to families who were loyal to the Starks in Season 6, but Jon refuses. (This could also be easily predicted by fans.)

Slightly later in the season, Sansa is not happy about Jon taking off to meet with Dany but is mollified when Jon leaves her in charge. The leaker agrees that according to the spoilers, Jon vs. Sansa doesn't amount to very much.

Quote

I will find it very odd of Arya and Jon aren't a significant part of their characters' storylines/character development towards the end of the series. 

If the leaker is correct, we get the following reunions during Season 7 (either stated outright or inferred from the spoilers given):

Bran/Arya/Sansa; Jon/Tyrion; Jaime/Tyrion; Tyrion/Cersei; Davos/Gendry; Gendry/Thoros/Beric; Jorah/Dany; Jon/Theon; Jon/Jaime (dragonpit?); Jaime/Brienne (dragonpit?)

If the leaker is correct, we will not get the following reunions during Season 7 (either stated outright or inferred from the spoilers given):

Jon/Arya; Jon/Bran; Tyrion/Bran; Tyrion/Sansa; Arya/Gendry; Sandor/Sansa; Jon/Sam

Could be missing some, but those are off the top of my head. The leaker was very emphatic about Jon leaving Winterfell before Arya gets there and Jon/Arya not meeting in Season 7.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Eyes High

[glowbug]

I agree that all signs point to the Jon/Arya reunion happening in season 8. I'm just saying that if they don't have much of an impact on each other by the end I'm going to be surprised given the set up in the books. At least we'll get an Arya/Sansa reunion, which I've also been waiting for. 

[FemmyV]

Looks like they're saving some of the high stakes reunions for Season 8. Jaime/Bran is one that I want to see.

[anamika]

13 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

 The leaker was very emphatic about Jon leaving Winterfell before Arya gets there and Jon/Arya not meeting in Season 7.

Saving the best for last.

[Eyes High]

46 minutes ago, glowbug said:

At least we'll get an Arya/Sansa reunion, which I've also been waiting for. 

Yes, although if the leaker is right they're going to spend the back half of Season 7 at loggerheads.

39 minutes ago, anamika said:

Saving the best for last.

I think that's the idea, but tossing us a Bran/Arya/Sansa reunion while withholding Jon/Arya/Bran just seems downright cruel. 

ETA:

Roughly translated tweets from Javi Marcos (@javimgol, runs Los Siete Reinos):

"It's confirmed that Peter Dinklage and Liam Cunningham are in Bilbao. We've heard that Emilia Clarke and Kit Harington are there as well."

"It seems very likely that Nathalie Emmanuel will head there. It is also possible that Gwendoline Christie and Alfie Allen will head there as well. We'll see."

"Apart from them, we expect Nikolai Coster Waldau and possibly Lena Headey for the filming in Extremadura and Andalucia."

Edited October 18, 2016 by Eyes High

[Skeeter22]

Those spoilers are hilarious because it's impossible to tell if they are fake or not. Jon and Dany have sex while the Wall falls sounds like fanfic and something D&D would write. Littlefinger wants Arya gone because she can't be easily manipulated, so he easily manipulates her with a letter. It's insulting to all the characters involved, so I won't be shocked if it's real. 

 

I hope all the new cast pairings work. Tyrion lost a lot of his luster when he was thrust into Dany's story. I don't think they've ever figured out how to balance multiple major characters outside of King's Landing, and that really only worked when they stuck to GRRM's plotting. Jon and Dany are both "the chosen one" in this story and I suspect the writers will struggle with that.   

[ElizaD]

3 hours ago, SeanC said:

L7R says that, while it's unconfirmed, they've been told that they will be filming Dragonstone scenes in Spain, and that Kit Harington is in-country for filming.

One step closer to Jon and Dany having sex while the Wall falls!

This could be the campiest moment of GOT. I hope they go full romance novel and embrace the predictability of the hero and heroine getting together because they're hot and our obvious main characters. Some said Jon/Dany wouldn't happen because GRRM's above it and doesn't do tropes, but since it's looking likelier with every report, make it epic with the prettiest shots of Kit/Emilia that you can find and lots of heaving bosoms and longing looks.

I really like the spoiler about the Night's King killing and riding Viserion, it's the one I most want to be true. There's been so much speculation about the three heads of the dragon, but a 2 vs 1 dragonfight could be more dramatic than Dany plus two pals just torching hordes of undead; even if she wins, she has to say goodbye to one of her children.

If Olenna poisons herself and Dany torches Randyll and Dickon, my old pet theory of the Tarlys getting Highgarden looks a little more plausible. Dany first makes Tyrion and Varys afraid that she's going Mad King, then does the Jon/Karstark/Umber thing of not punishing children for their parents' actions and gives the Tarly lands (plus Highgarden?) to Sam after he shows up with proof that his best friend and her new lover is a Targaryen.

I'm a little confused by the Euron/Sand stuff - does he kill two Sands, as reported earlier, and then poisons Tyene as his third kill, or is it one in battle and one by poison so that the third is left to inherit? I could see the show killing off all the unpopular Dornish characters and then never mentioning it again so we don't know who rules Sunspear when the show ends.

The wackiest thing is Cersei being pregnant. It's so seemingly unnecessary and out there, even more than her getting the throne (especially since that could be her taking some of Aegon's role), that I wonder if it's going to happen in the books as well. It'll be interesting to see what this does to the various theories about her death if it's true.

[anamika]

38 minutes ago, Skeeter22 said:

Littlefinger wants Arya gone because she can't be easily manipulated, so he easily manipulates her with a letter. It's insulting to all the characters involved, so I won't be shocked if it's real. 

This is the problem I have with the Sansa in the North plot: The plot just stops making sense and other important characters are then dumbed down to show up Sansa as being smart because she is supposed to play the game.

Now it looks like LF manipulates Arya to distrust Sansa with a letter. Like why?! Arya is pretty perceptive in the books, so her falling for LF's BS is pretty much a load of BS itself.  Can't Arya and Sansa just straight out talk about this. Can't Sansa just get rid of LF, since she knows he's untrustworthy. Does Sansa need Bran to know that LF is an untrustworthy POS?  It sounds like a load of nonsense.

I am doubtful about the Arya stuff mainly because it does not live up to the hype tweeted by Maisie Williams after reading the script. And Gendry seems totally pointless in the whole thing.

18 minutes ago, ElizaD said:

 Some said Jon/Dany wouldn't happen because GRRM's above it and doesn't do tropes, but since it's looking likelier with every report, make it epic with the prettiest shots of Kit/Emilia that you can find and lots of heaving bosoms and longing looks.

GRRM has a lot of tropes in the series. His beauty and beast Sansa/Sandor is all about the tropes and cliches complete with disfigured but masculine manly man (The Beast who changes because of innocent Beauty) forcing himself onto an innocent, young virginal girl who later dreams of kissing him. That sounds like an 80's bodice ripper - but that's GRRM's version of romance in the series. 

Edited October 18, 2016 by anamika