Seasons 4-7: The College Years

[ElectraStar]

I also love Jesse's rant to Steve. Although "he be gone, he be outta here" does make me laugh, his point was right on. And then there was Steve's horror at what he had done to Kelly yet he didn't seem to care about Allison at all. I get that his relationship with Kelly was completely different but the more terribly injured woman deserves some thought as well.

I was watching the student senate election episode the other day and realized something. How were the girlfriend and best friend of one of the candidates allowed to be the vote counters? Isn't that a conflict of interest? With all the animosity that Alex Diaz guy had toward "Chancellor's lackey" Brandon, you'd think he would have something to say about that.

[desertflower]

Caught a couple eps today, with Kelly's 21st birthday at the Dave Koz concert (insert eye roll here) while her jilted lovers B & D sit by her side. Lord. Also, Colin's terrible painting that he presents to her at the end. In case you need a reminder, it's a big plate of sliced cake with some sort of half naked angel being hovering over it. Is the angel supposed to be Colin? Or just some sort of Patron Saint of Cakes? So many questions. I guess I just can't appreciate fine art.

Ray was a good guy in this one. Everyone accuses him of stealing crap but after he's proven innocent he graciously accepts Steve's apology without a second thought. Also, he is subjected to Donna's cringe-worthy drunken strip tease and still manages to be a gentleman. I'm surprised he didn't flee for his life at that point. Drunken sexed-up Donna is pretty scary.

[Jellowslr]

Caught a couple eps today, with Kelly's 21st birthday at the Dave Koz concert (insert eye roll here) while her jilted lovers B & D sit by her side. Lord. Also, Colin's terrible painting that he presents to her at the end. In case you need a reminder, it's a big plate of sliced cake with some sort of half naked angel being hovering over it. Is the angel supposed to be Colin? Or just some sort of Patron Saint of Cakes? So many questions. I guess I just can't appreciate fine art.

Ray was a good guy in this one. Everyone accuses him of stealing crap but after he's proven innocent he graciously accepts Steve's apology without a second thought. Also, he is subjected to Donna's cringe-worthy drunken strip tease and still manages to be a gentleman. I'm surprised he didn't flee for his life at that point. Drunken sexed-up Donna is pretty scary.

 

I'm so excited this is back on TV and now my DVR is filled with a snark fest every Tuesday after work. Val and Ginger's plot went off so smoothly today :) 

[desertflower]

Yes, aren't they such clever con artists? A scam could've been fun, but not when the big buildup ends with....the gang treating her slightly nicer than they did before. Maybe now Kelly will only roll her eyes behind Val's back, instead of to her face. Ooh, score! They should orchestrate a casino heist next, because those girls are crafty!

And of course Val promptly undoes any good will she built up by moving on to her next scheme. Can't remember what that is, but I know it's coming. Does she sleep with Ray next? I can't keep track of her bad deed timeline.

[ridethemaverick]

Hee, I love this stretch of episodes. It's just so stupid. Val plotting elaborate schemes just to get in with people she never really cared about is insane.

What would have happened of Donna hadn't asked for Ray's jacket? Was there a plan B?

[Maherjunkie]

I missed this one.  Could you set the scene, ridethemaverick?  

[desertflower]

Maherjunkie, someone stole a ring off the Martins' yacht during a party, and Donna found it in Ray's jacket pocket. Other stuff started disappearing around the Walsh house, and Ray got blamed. But then Val said she found out her sneaky friend Ginger actually took everything, and sent her back to Buffalo. But in the end they reveal it was just a big trick to get the gang to like Valerie.

[Maherjunkie]

Didn't they hate her more after that?  Very weak on the Malone years.

[desertflower]

Yeah, that's what's so dumb; they were nice to her for about 5 minutes but it's not long before she starts acting a fool and sleeps with Ray and does a bunch of other crap, so of course they hate her again before too long. Her desire to alternately try to fit in with them while also trying to destroy their lives was bizarre.

[smiley13]

I'm so excited this is back on TV and now my DVR is filled with a snark fest every Tuesday after work. Val and Ginger's plot went off so smoothly today :) 

When does this air?  I have been unable to find it in a while.  

 

Valerie continued to do stupid things that made the gang dislike her, despite her attempts at making them like her.

[ktwo]

When does this air? I have been unable to find it in a while.

POP, formerly TV Guide Network, airs it Tuesdays between noon and 5 pm Eastern.

Edited March 8, 2015 by ktwo

[smiley13]

POP, formerly TV Guide Network, airs it Tuesdays between noon and 5 pm Eastern.

It figures that they would have it on at a time when people who work regular day time hours can't see it.

[AndySmith]

 

Her desire to alternately try to fit in with them while also trying to destroy their lives was bizarre.

 

To be fair, she only seems to try and destroy Kelly's life. She was friends with Brandon and Steve, was on-again off-again with David (and did seem to genuinely care about him), and had nothing against Claire. Donna, kind of mixed...when she wasn't going after Donna's BF or in some love triangle/quadrangle with Donna, they seemed ok with each other.

 

So really, it was only Kelly she seemed to have a real problem with.

[desertflower]

Well, she stole Donna's clients from her when they were doing the personal shopper business. It was totally uncalled for since Donna was being really nice to her and actually wanted to interact and work with her. But she took her clients AND slept with Ray (twice). And although she cared about Brandon, she hurt him by extension whenever she went after Kelly. My point is if she wanted Brandon and the gang's approval so badly to construct an elaborate scheme, she probably shouldn't have turned around and treated them like that right afterwards. I guess it was supposed to show us how messed up she was.

[AndySmith]

Well, yeah, ok, but besides that, what did she ever do to Donna? ;)

 

And to be fair, Kelly was the one who went after Val first, and was the one who set the tone for their relationship.

[Maherjunkie]

What did she do to her?

[Runningwild]

Just caught a couple minutes of Steve convincing Claire to ride on his motorcycle? Don't remember that at all. But it reinforces every bad thing I ever thought about Claire. Seriously what was the appeal? Why did Steve stay with her for so long?

Edited April 6, 2015 by Runningwild

[desertflower]

I missed the motorcycle episode but right now I'm watching the one where crazy Tara comes to stay at the apartment. (She is not crazy just yet.) Kelly is giving her a tour and Tara sees Colin's ugly cake painting and says, "Ooh, nice painting!" Of all the lies she tells, that one is the most egregious.

Also in this episode: Steve's half brothers Randy Spelling and NotRandySpelling. Ugh.

[the living statue]

I always loved Claire, but she was so rude to those not in the gang. She bordered on cruel to Tara, a very temporary guest in the apartment (it was unknown that she was single-white-femaling Kelly at the time). She was super grinchy over a glass of orange juice that Tara poured. It's not as if these people are impoverished, either.

[Maherjunkie]

Wasn't Claire the nut who chained herself to Brandon's bed?

[the living statue]

Claire also manipulated her way into Brandon's hotel room (and, shower) when he went to Washington DC (and, shook hands with the Pres), I believe. To be fair, she was only in high school then.

Edited April 1, 2015 by the living statue

[kickedinthehead]

Yeah, that's what's so dumb; they were nice to her for about 5 minutes but it's not long before she starts acting a fool and sleeps with Ray and does a bunch of other crap, so of course they hate her again before too long. Her desire to alternately try to fit in with them while also trying to destroy their lives was bizarre.

 

Responding a little late to this -- and just to nitpick, no less ;-)  -- but Valerie actually slept with Ray in the previous season (before she and Ginger tried to frame him for stealing that ring; that plot was hilarious, by the way). Clare and David knew because LuAnn Pruit (in a drunken state) blabbed it to them before she "passed out in her pantyhose" (after they took her home from the PPAD), but Donna didn't find out until Val, Donna, Clare, and Kelly went on some road trip to... ? (they ended up at a convent; I don't remember where they were originally going.)

Edited April 2, 2015 by kickedinthehead

[smiley13]

I have been catching these On Demand on Comcast ,but they only have four of the five episodes that are shown weekly.  At least that is better than nothing.

 

And now on Saturday, they are on a different schedule.  They are showing the end of Season 4.  I was never a fan of Claire, but boy was she irritating when they first introduced her.  For a high school kid, she was quite the aggressive bimbo.  Thankfully Brandon was smart enough to not fall for her.   

 

Also, this was pre-Valerie, but in the last episode, they had Jim mention their best friends who live in Buffalo.  I guess the writers were already planning to be rid of Shannen Doherty and were laying the groundwork for Val.

[desertflower]

Responding a little late to this -- and just to nitpick, no less ;-)  -- but Valerie actually slept with Ray in the previous season (before she and Ginger tried to frame him for stealing that ring; that plot was hilarious, by the way). Clare and David knew because LuAnn Pruit (in a drunken state) blabbed it to them before she "passed out in her pantyhose" (after they took her home from the PPAD), but Donna didn't find out until Val, Donna, Clare, and Kelly went on some road trip to... ? (they ended up at a convent; I don't remember where they were originally going.)

Thanks for the clarification. I have trouble keeping all of Val's bad deeds straight. Girl was busy!

[Runningwild]

Watching today. I have never seen these episodes before. Tracy and Brandon were with her old boyfriend taking care of a colicky horse? Donna and David are together?

[smiley13]

During Tuesday's episodes, Donna was all freaked out over the odd calls at the TV station.  She thought it was some person who supposedly tried to rape her at some earlier point.  When did that happen?  I do not recall Donna ever being involved in an attempted rape.  And wasn't Donna the worst weather girl ever?   I mean painfully bad.  I cringe at those scenes.

 

Donna and David got back together during their Senior year of college.  Remember her graduation "gift" to him?  

 

Brandon and Tracy were cute together.  She was pretty down to earth and they were together a while before she slept with him and stayed over at the Walsh house.  They went to her home during that episode with the horse, but I do not remember why her family was not there.

[Maherjunkie]

Yeah, she was.  David saved her when she called him "Dave".

[smiley13]

Yeah, she was.  David saved her when she called him "Dave".

What was the storyline though?  Was he supposed to be someone from CU?  How did she meet him?  And which boyfriend was she with at the time?

[Maherjunkie]

I thought he was some guy who worked at the station.  I believe Ray but am not absolute on either.

[ElectraStar]

The guy's name was Garrett Slan. He worked for the college in the student center. He had already raped one student and was going after Clare when he met Donna at the After Dark while trying to get a job. Donna was with Ray at the time.

Edited April 30, 2015 by ElectraStar

[Runningwild]

And Donna was a better pick?

[Maherjunkie]

Probably perceived as more submissive.

[Runningwild]

Maybe if she wouldn't whisper talk all the time.

[AndySmith]

Donna is the better pick for EVERYTHING. Even for a guy looking to rape a girl.

 

Ok, that was a bad thing to say. But still, of course that would happen to Donna and not say, Kelly or Valerie or any of the other women on the show.

[Maherjunkie]

I think it did happen to those two.

[desertflower]

Random thoughts from the eps I caught today...

Tom Miller was a babe. I wish when Valerie came back for the finale she had Tom with her, or at least mention that they were together and are living happily ever after. Well, they are in my mind, anyway!

When Donna chooses David over Cliff the firefighter, for a second I think "Yay, Donna and David are back together for good!" And then I remember that no, they break up again and then we have to endure Noah for three years. Sigh.

[smiley13]

Has anyone else noticed that this show has been taken off of Pop's Comcast On Demand listings?

 

It is really annoying.  Previously, they were putting the Tuesday episodes up each week.

[Shangrilala]

What did she do to her?

 

 

What did Kelly do to Val first?  It kind of just depends on your perspective.

 

1)  Kelly gossiping about Val to Donna, and her father committing suicide.  There's a scene at the Walsh bbq to welcome Val where Val asks the girls to join in the basketball game and they both bow out.  As Val skips away, Donna comments how great she is.  And Kelly says "yeah, I can't believe how well adjusted she is" or some such thing.  Donna says what do you mean and Kelly says "well I probably shouldn't tell you this but..."  Some people viewed that scene as Kelly just talking with her friend.  Others viewed it as pretty bitchy on the part of Kelly, as something like that is really serious, and she wasn't giving Val the chance to enter the LA scene on her own terms, not to mention "psychoanalyzing" her bereavement period of her father after just 1 year of psych.  At that point we hadn't even seen Val smoking her joint and calling everybody avacado-heads.  And quite honestly, that's news that Val should have shared, with people that she wanted to, as she got to know that and felt comfortable.  

 

2)  Kelly catching Val smoking pot in the Walsh home, then running around calling her things like "closet stoner" and a "pot head" and asking everybody what they thought of Valerie, all because Valerie brushed it off as incense when Kelly asked her about it, followed by her psychoanalysis on who Val was, and making her out to be this damaged soul, while people were just getting to know her.  The show was clearly trying to set it up as "Kelly is onto this girl," but it kind of just came off as bitchy, unfriendly, unwelcoming, and, well...bitchy.

 

Val should have been able to share the news of her father with people as she felt comfortable.  She was under no obligation to share the pot smoking with Kelly, and as Donna said, maybe she didn't want Jim and Cindy to find out.  Which was a perfectly reasonable explanation.  

 

My own personal opinion?  Kelly was jealous at first sight because this girl was a knockout and she was becoming beige-er by the second in season 5.  Not to mention, I always viewed Kelly as primo-bitch of 90210 (as opposed to Brenda) and then Val waltzed in and was ultimately better at it, and looked better while doing it.  

[Maherjunkie]

Word!  Loved me some TAT.  When she dropped Amber it wasn't the same.  Kelly could be the bigger bitch.  Certainly in the beginning.

[Marie Claudine]

Wow, it's been some time since I posted here!

 

I always loved TAT, and had a soft spot for Val. I don't fault Kelly at all for telling Donna about Victor Malone's suicide. I would probably have told my best friends, too, especially at that age. Not because I was particularly mean (I don't think), but simply because I would have been deadly afraid that one of my friends might step in it with a careless remark à la "If I have to take this class, I'll kill myself" or "My dad would die if I did this or that" or something similar, around Val. I had a college friend whose mother died in an accident, and boy, are there many thoughtless metaphors with death references in them - and boy, did we cringe every time someone let one slip without thinking or knowing!

The pothead thing, to me, was way worse, because it exaggerated Val's tiny slip from the straight Walsh path in a way that was simply hypocritical, coming from Kelly Taylor. This is one of the early instances of Kelly growing into little Miss Holier-Than-Thou. The judgemental face she kept making, after everything she had been through herself!

 

In the later seasons, Val went over the edge. The Kenny Bennerman thing, for instance, was a bit much. But in the beginning, she wasn't exactly a Gina. She didn't deserve the huge amount of mistrust Kelly dished out.

 

With Kelly and Val, I always got the impression that they were both jealous of each other. They just couldn't let it go.

 

Agreed that Tom Miller was a babe. And somehow he seemed like the perfect guy for Val. Although I also quite liked her with David, I have to say.

[Shangrilala]

I don't fault Kelly at all for telling Donna about Victor Malone's suicide. I would probably have told my best friends, too, especially at that age.

 

 

I agree, for the most part.  However, I do agree that they way JG delivered the scene was a little odd.  She leaned in with this little smile on her face, ready for some gossip, as opposed to saying it out of concern, which is the context that you described.  I could be a little more sensitive to that though.  My husband's father committed suicide when he was young, and it's not a topic that he shies away from necessarily, but it's a story that he chooses to share, on his terms, with those who he feels comfortable with.  It normally makes people initially uncomfortable.  You say the "I'm so sorry" and then there's this awkwardness. Then people act differently for a little bit anytime the word father comes up in conversation.  Val had just arrived in LA.  She didn't want or need that "tip-toeing" until she was ready for it.  I say all of this based on our initial introduction of Val, which was this carefree, fun, breezy girl excited to be out in LA.  

 

I know everybody liked Tom. I liked him initially too. However, I really disliked it when Kelly dumped him and he just sort of squirmed his way back into Val's arms about 20 minutes later!  That wasn't cool.  I was a David/Val fan.  They had awesome chemistry.  And they were hot together.  Easily the best looking couple on the show.  

[Petunia13]

David is super cute and has a good personality. Val was hot and interesting. He brought out a different side of her. I def shipped them.

I also agree about how Kelly delivered the new intel in Val in a slightly mean way. I had the impression she never liked her and was a touch bitchy.

[AndySmith]

I think it did happen to those two.

 

I meant the fact that a guy wanted to rape someone else but was glad it was Donna he found instead...if that makes sense.

 

the student senate election

 

Wasn't it weird that they had 2 elections within the same academic year?

[atlanticslide]

I meant the fact that a guy wanted to rape someone else but was glad it was Donna he found instead...if that makes sense.

 

 

Wasn't it weird that they had 2 elections within the same academic year?

I remember there being an offhanded mention by Josh Richland at the beginning of the student election storyline that the current administration was busted for... something, and had been ousted, hence the emergency election at the start of the 902010 gang's sophomore year and then another election at the end of the same year.

[wookiee cookiee]

Watching season 5 on Hulu. Kelly and Donna's haircuts are so terrible! 

 

 

[FozzyBear]

Wow, it's been some time since I posted here!

I always loved TAT, and had a soft spot for Val. I don't fault Kelly at all for telling Donna about Victor Malone's suicide. I would probably have told my best friends, too, especially at that age. Not because I was particularly mean (I don't think), but simply because I would have been deadly afraid that one of my friends might step in it with a careless remark à la "If I have to take this class, I'll kill myself" or "My dad would die if I did this or that" or something similar, around Val. I had a college friend whose mother died in an accident, and boy, are there many thoughtless metaphors with death references in them - and boy, did we cringe every time someone let one slip without thinking or knowing!

The pothead thing, to me, was way worse, because it exaggerated Val's tiny slip from the straight Walsh path in a way that was simply hypocritical, coming from Kelly Taylor. This is one of the early instances of Kelly growing into little Miss Holier-Than-Thou. The judgemental face she kept making, after everything she had been through herself!

In the later seasons, Val went over the edge. The Kenny Bennerman thing, for instance, was a bit much. But in the beginning, she wasn't exactly a Gina. She didn't deserve the huge amount of mistrust Kelly dished out.

With Kelly and Val, I always got the impression that they were both jealous of each other. They just couldn't let it go.

Agreed that Tom Miller was a babe. And somehow he seemed like the perfect guy for Val. Although I also quite liked her with David, I have to say.

This was why I always rooted for Val. She became a cartoon evil mastermind, but she started out just a rebellious kid who's biggest sin was not loving the gang right off the bat. Val's first season was really the start of my Kelly hate. I spent the rest of the show wanting to smack that sour little church lady face of hers.

[AndySmith]

Kelly and Donna's haircuts are so terrible!

 

I thought Kelly looked cute that season. Donna? Not so much.

 

who's biggest sin was not loving the gang right off the bat.

 

No, her biggest sin was pretending to love the gang right off the bat, and trying to come off as this "aw shucks I'm just an innocent gir from Buffalo" thing, when clearly, the opposite was true. Don't get me wrong, I loved Val, you can exactly consider her an innocent victim.

[FozzyBear]

I thought Kelly looked cute that season. Donna? Not so much.

No, her biggest sin was pretending to love the gang right off the bat, and trying to come off as this "aw shucks I'm just an innocent gir from Buffalo" thing, when clearly, the opposite was true. Don't get me wrong, I loved Val, you can exactly consider her an innocent victim.

Could be. My perceptions became slightly colored by how many times I had to say "Shut up Kelly" in the latter years. After Branda left I felt like half of the plot lines went as such "someone does something that Kelly takes offense to. Kelly sucks a lemon for the next hour." They all sort of blend together. God she became such a kill joy. My 90 year old Grandma clutches fewer pearls than Kelly Taylor.

[wookiee cookiee]

Watching on Hulu is so annoying with all the missed episodes...I'm on season 6 now and they have ep 29 labeled as ep 25, so it is on there twice. Plus they are missing most of the crazy Tara episodes. :( I just looked ahead and they don't even have the series finale, which I never saw because I had quit watching. Arrrgh. 

[FozzyBear]

Watching on Hulu is so annoying with all the missed episodes...I'm on season 6 now and they have ep 29 labeled as ep 25, so it is on there twice. Plus they are missing most of the crazy Tara episodes. :( I just looked ahead and they don't even have the series finale, which I never saw because I had quit watching. Arrrgh.

What? I love crazy Tara! A bunch of Emily Valentine episodes are missing too. I really want to know what the deal is with the dropped episodes.