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Seasons 4-7: The College Years

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They are missing because of the music rights...it is so weird to watch the Ray Pruit episodes because he only ever sings the "Worms Crawl In" song in the Halloween episode! All his other songs are either cut or the episode isn't available. 

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S4 - Donna and David were getting dull together.

- Brandon didn't bray much. Kind of disappointed but he had Lucinda

- Clare was awesome.

- David was always going to cheat on Donna. it was going to happen.

- The end of the season was awesome except for Brenda pining over Dylan.

- Druggie David is awesome.

- Kelly and Brandon's little thing was cool.

- Need more Piano David

- TURBO TOILET!!!!

- Thank god for Ariel. 

 

S5:

- Less Braying

- EVIL TEXAS DIP

- Thank god David moved on with Clare. They were great together. They had the rave dance, the handcuffs, the sex tape, the understanding, the hating of Ray, they looked hot together, the stupid alien story line, the hating of Ray.

- Donna moves on to Ray. It was horrible.

- Kelly cheating on Brandon was stupid. 

- Valerie is amazing

- I like David's look early in the season. I don't know why.

- Love Drunk Brandon

- Poor Cindy and Jim.

- WHY MUST DAVID PINE FOR DONNA?

- I wish David and Clare had more romantic moments.

- What did Steve actually do mid to late season?

- Yes Clare. Let David the guy who cheated on Donna, tell Donna that her boyfriend was cheating on her. Sound logic.

 

S6

- Valerie and David - Best relationship the whole show

- Druggie Kelly is amazing

- Susan was okay

- Donna being some precious angel is gross. The fact that the Rose Queen thing happened...

- Joe was dull but kept her away from David for a while

- She looked like an oompa loompa near the end

- Clare became a bad character this season while Steve became better

- Val should have called Ginger's bluff. Who cares if Donna, Kelly, Steve, Ray and Clare hated her. David would have stuck by her and ditto Brandon. Ruined the best couple in the show.

- Poor Dylan. Toni was the girl for him.

- WHY DID DAVID GET BACK WITH DONNA? DONNA IN THE NUN PLACE WAS CREEPY

- Seemed like Clare was more shocked about Valerie hooking up with David than Donna was.

- Seriously Kelly. Why would Clare need to tell you that Ray slept with Val. None of your business.

- Hypocritical Kelly.

- Kelly I would be concerned that 3 of my friends picked my sibling as best kiss. The lack of concern was confusing

- 2nd best season. Would have been best if Susan didn't turn to Kelly like, Clare didn't turn into Kelly like and David and Val stayed together.

 

S7

- Why are Donna and David back again?

- David gets rolled by two chicks in Vegas. LEGEND!

- The lack of concern of David by Steve his best friend kind of and Clare his ex-girlfriend in Vegas is quite a concern.

- The grandparents episode was the worst.

- The actor guy was the worst

- That Chloe girl was the worst

- Poor Tracy

- You had your chance Kelly and you ruined a nice thing for Brandon

- Thank god Clare and Steve are no more.

- Kind of wished David fell asleep instead of sleeping with Donna.

- Really Donna? A deer? A god damn deer.

- Of course Donna is held hostage.

- Of course Donna gets some attractive fireman.

- Brian looked out of it this season and the next. You could tell he couldn't be arsed anymore and was just getting the checks. Ditto Jason. 

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Hmmm, I can't be sure, and you haven't exactly made it clear, but...are you trying to tell us you didn't like David and Donna as a couple?

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- Val should have called Ginger's bluff. Who cares if Donna, Kelly, Steve, Ray and Clare hated her. David would have stuck by her and ditto Brandon. Ruined the best couple in the show

What was Ginger bluffing about?

Yes, Andy,  I too am stunned and devasted myself to see David and Donna together in whites and candles.

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Hmmm, I can't be sure, and you haven't exactly made it clear, but...are you trying to tell us you didn't like David and Donna as a couple?

 

Damn...You're on to me. 

 

Seriously though I did like the couple during the HS years but I guess I just didn't like Donna full stop as a character from season 4 onwards. I guess I'll fault the writing on that. I just preferred Donna with someone like Joe who wasn't always wanting sex or someone like Valerie for David who just clicked without the drama.

 

Regarding the Ginger bluff thing. She had the tape or something I just saw the episode where something to do with stealing and having Val catch her so everybody would like her stuff. Then she came back to bribe Val out of money or sleep with David (okay...?) or otherwise air the tape confession. So basically Val told David to sleep with Ginger and Ginger told him that she was trying to hurt Val, and then David dumped her. 

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Val and Ginger set the whole thing up....Ginger stole some stuff, Ray got blamed, Val sweeps in to expose Ginger as the culprit, Ginger leaves town, everyone thanks Val for telling the truth. But they set it all up so the gang would like and trust Val. The whole thing is very stupid because just a few episodes later Val is doing more stuff to make the gang hate her, so it was pointless. Then Ginger comes back and threatens to tell everyone the truth about their "scam" unless Val gets David to sleep with her. (Ginger) It's all very, very stupid.

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Val and Ginger set the whole thing up....Ginger stole some stuff, Ray got blamed, Val sweeps in to expose Ginger as the culprit, Ginger leaves town, everyone thanks Val for telling the truth. But they set it all up so the gang would like and trust Val. The whole thing is very stupid because just a few episodes later Val is doing more stuff to make the gang hate her, so it was pointless. Then Ginger comes back and threatens to tell everyone the truth about their "scam" unless Val gets David to sleep with her. (Ginger) It's all very, very stupid.

 

100% dead on. It was stupid and ruined a great relationship. 

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If I hated someone the way Kelly hated Val, that little stunt wouldn't have changed my mind. I'd just be like "see? Your best friend in the whole world is also a shady, lying, thieving bitch. Birds of a feather. No wonder I hate you."

Great post Soup Thrower! I too thought Val and David (Valvid? Valid?) were the best couple on the show.

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And Donna and Clare will follow suit. Dylan left by then. No one cares about how Joe feels. David and Brandon would stick by Val and Steve will fall into line by Clare or get dumped by Clare if he follows Brandon. So really it made no sense at all and I guess so they could use Colin more and have Donna who was tanned more than an orange date David again. 

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This might be the strangest post in this whole forum, but I laughed when I saw this and I had to share it with some people who would get it. Hubs & I are 16 weeks pregnant with Baby #2. I get a weekly email telling me current info about the baby, which also compares the baby's size to a fruit or vegetable. This week, Baby #2 is the size of an avocado! I immediately started calling him/her "avocado head", which hubs doesn't understand, because he wasn't Dylan-obsessed as I was, so his experience with our gang is limited to the few minutes he caught of the recent BTS movie, Tori Spelling's trainwreck marriage-in-crisis shows, Luke Perry being Lane Frost and the one time that I forced him to watch the scene when Kelly breaks up with Mark and has the very best breakup line in the history of breakups (paraphrased): "You're so into money, I have a little tip for you. Every time the phone rings, bet someone that it's not me. You'll be right every time." He actually has changed-it-up and used that line in different situations.

 

Anyway, my child is an avocado head and I remember way too much about my teenage shows.

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Who was Mark? I remember John and Colin. 

 

I remember the episode where that guy tried to rape Donna and before that David said to Donna that she was a "Self involved *****" & "Pale version of what she used to be". 

 

Though it was a bit mean and I kind of thought that was true considering the character shift. 

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Pale version of what she used to be".

Though it was a bit mean and I kind of thought that was true considering the character shift.

 

Not to mention her hair, makeup and wardrobe choices-- talk about pale!

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Who was Mark? I remember John and Colin.

I remember the episode where that guy tried to rape Donna and before that David said to Donna that she was a "Self involved *****" & "Pale version of what she used to be".

Though it was a bit mean and I kind of thought that was true considering the character shift.

So this should maybe go in the UO thread, but I always thought the Donna/Ray abuse story was really well done. Probably the best "serious issue" the show ever did. I liked how nothing really concrete happened for a long time and everybody got a bad feeling about Ray but didn't have any real proof of why. Meanwhile Donna becomes more and more wrapped up with him and starts to treat everyone who isn't Ray pretty badly and sort of isolates herself with him. And for the longest time he's just sort of short tempered, but not really physical so it would be easy for Donna to justify that it wasn't abusive. And then when he does get violent in Portland, he doesn't hit her exactly. He grabs her and throws her around and it's easy to see how Donna was confused about what happened, but already sort of isolated from other people in her life making it hard to get her bearings on what's normal anymore and her and Ray just keep spiraling together. I even like how it was him cheating, not abusing her, that finally gave her the guts to leave him. It actually is really close to how a good friend of mine's abusive relationship went down. The abuse was much vaguer than a slap across the face, she got really bitchy everyone who wasn't the guy and isolated herself in the relationship, and she left when he cheated not when he hit her.

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Who was Mark?

 

If I remember right, Mark worked with Brandon at the tv station?  I think he dated Kelly briefly, but the relationship consisted mostly of "Kelly, why won't you sleep with me?"

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So this should maybe go in the UO thread, but I always thought the Donna/Ray abuse story was really well done. Probably the best "serious issue" the show ever did. I liked how nothing really concrete happened for a long time and everybody got a bad feeling about Ray but didn't have any real proof of why. Meanwhile Donna becomes more and more wrapped up with him and starts to treat everyone who isn't Ray pretty badly and sort of isolates herself with him. And for the longest time he's just sort of short tempered, but not really physical so it would be easy for Donna to justify that it wasn't abusive. And then when he does get violent in Portland, he doesn't hit her exactly. He grabs her and throws her around and it's easy to see how Donna was confused about what happened, but already sort of isolated from other people in her life making it hard to get her bearings on what's normal anymore and her and Ray just keep spiraling together. I even like how it was him cheating, not abusing her, that finally gave her the guts to leave him. It actually is really close to how a good friend of mine's abusive relationship went down. The abuse was much vaguer than a slap across the face, she got really bitchy everyone who wasn't the guy and isolated herself in the relationship, and she left when he cheated not when he hit her.

 

Huh I really never thought about it like that. She did drift away from Kelly for a bit (Kelly was with Brandon most of them) and Ray hated Clare and David who was probably the ones around her. She did tell Valerie that she didn't see the right thing and she did blame David for Ray going on tour and told Clare off for telling her that she could do better.

 

Hmmmm.

 

Yeah she was a completely different character also after and before that abusiveness stuff. I don't recall Donna doing much for David's somewhat music compared to Ray. She did say if Ray asked her the marry her, she would say yes. 

 

But still never liked Donna and the seasons I liked the best Post S4 were the ones she wasn't in a relationship David.

 

If I remember right, Mark worked with Brandon at the tv station?  I think he dated Kelly briefly, but the relationship consisted mostly of "Kelly, why won't you sleep with me?"

 

Yeah I don't remember much of that season except Donna and David breaking up and going back together, David going crazy and getting mugged, Tracy, Kelly and that damn journal (inner monologue), Clare putting down Steve like all the time, and the final episode. I still don't remember Mark. 

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Mark started out ok; he did work at the tv station. Kelly liked him and said he was almost like a combination of Dylan and Brandon. But then he got weird and had anger issues. (Kind of out of the blue.) He and Brandon competed for the same fellowship/scholarship/whatever it was and when he lost Mark blew up. Kelly broke up with him and the next thing you know dude transferred schools and moved away. They clearly just hastily wrote him off the show. I remember reading an interview with one of the writers and he said Jennie didn't like the actor so they got rid of him. I don't know how true that is but it's obvious they wanted him off because his character deteriorated so quickly.

Another thing I remember about Mark...he lived in the house up in the hills and when a forest fire was coming the gang helped him hose down the house. That was probably the same time Donna wandered off and saved the baby deer.

Edited by desertflower
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Huh I really never thought about it like that. She did drift away from Kelly for a bit (Kelly was with Brandon most of them) and Ray hated Clare and David who was probably the ones around her. She did tell Valerie that she didn't see the right thing and she did blame David for Ray going on tour and told Clare off for telling her that she could do better.

Hmmmm.

Yeah she was a completely different character also after and before that abusiveness stuff. I don't recall Donna doing much for David's somewhat music compared to Ray. She did say if Ray asked her the marry her, she would say yes.

But still never liked Donna and the seasons I liked the best Post S4 were the ones she wasn't in a relationship David.

Yeah I don't remember much of that season except Donna and David breaking up and going back together, David going crazy and getting mugged, Tracy, Kelly and that damn journal (inner monologue), Clare putting down Steve like all the time, and the final episode. I still don't remember Mark.

Well to clarify my earlier position, when I said it was really well done I was grading on a curve for how badly 90210 usually handled "issues". I still think it was one of the better abusive stories on a 1990s teen soap. I think I'm just impressed that they didn't go with 1 of 2 eye rolling options:

1. Have a basically 3 story abuse arch. Couple meets. He beats the crap out of her after the first date. She finds inner strength and walks away. 2. Make a long standing character physically violent out of the blue.

I hate both of those options and I don't think either is realistic. I liked that Ray was always written as an insecure, jealous guy with a bad temper, but he didn't really cross a line for the longest time. I also like that the abuse happened in stages. He didn't just wake up and smack her one day. There was lots of grabbing and shoving and threats first. They also went through periods where nothing much happened. I don't know, looking back I'm always surprised at how much of it is a decently complex story about domestic abuse. Especially considering the show and the time.

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Mark started out ok; he did work at the tv station. Kelly liked him and said he was almost like a combination of Dylan and Brandon. But then he got weird and had anger issues. (Kind of out of the blue.) He and Brandon competed for the same fellowship/scholarship/whatever it was and when he lost Mark blew up. Kelly broke up with him and the next thing you know dude transferred schools and moved away. They clearly just hastily wrote him off the show. I remember reading an interview with one of the writers and he said Jennie didn't like the actor so they got rid of him. I don't know how true that is but it's obvious they wanted him off because his character deteriorated so quickly.

Another thing I remember about Mark...he lived in the house up in the hills and when a forest fire was coming the gang helped him hose down the house. That was probably the same time Donna wandered off and saved the baby deer.

 

I hate that deer. I hate that arc. I hate that a fireman fell in love with her. I hate that she basically juggled two men at one time which was one was David. Kind of wished David was like "Screw this" and Donna picked the Fireman. 

 

I think I know who you are talking about now. The guy who loved kung fu stuff and got whiny about a surprise party.

 

Well to clarify my earlier position, when I said it was really well done I was grading on a curve for how badly 90210 usually handled "issues". I still think it was one of the better abusive stories on a 1990s teen soap. I think I'm just impressed that they didn't go with 1 of 2 eye rolling options:

1. Have a basically 3 story abuse arch. Couple meets. He beats the crap out of her after the first date. She finds inner strength and walks away. 2. Make a long standing character physically violent out of the blue.

I hate both of those options and I don't think either is realistic. I liked that Ray was always written as an insecure, jealous guy with a bad temper, but he didn't really cross a line for the longest time. I also like that the abuse happened in stages. He didn't just wake up and smack her one day. There was lots of grabbing and shoving and threats first. They also went through periods where nothing much happened. I don't know, looking back I'm always surprised at how much of it is a decently complex story about domestic abuse. Especially considering the show and the time.

 

Yeah I never thought about it in the detail because the show and talking about the issues kind of suck. I guess it started when Ray was annoyed at Donna because she had a boyfriend (Griffin)

 

Also went back to that New Year's Episode in Season 6. The Corrs and the fact that Valerie and David had an argument and it was the first time on the show where the character realized how stupid it was and laughed about it. 

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Yep, SoupThrower, Mark is the one who got pissy about the surprise party. That's when they first started making it clear he wasn't the perfect guy Kelly thought he was.

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He and Brandon competed for the same fellowship/scholarship/whatever it was and when he lost Mark blew up

 

And wasn't he something of a snobby sore loser about it? Like, he was from a prestigeous old money family or something, and how dare a nobody like Brandon get the prize over him? Unless I am not remembering it correctly...

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I hated Mark but I get why he was annoyed. Like any normal person who is competing for a coveted position, he kept his business to himself until Kelly pressured him to 1) tell Brandon he was in the running, 2) introduce Brandon to the people on the judging committee whom Mark knew through his own contacts, and 3) help prep Brandon for the questions they'd ask (or something like that, it's been awhile).

Mark is a grown man and could have said no but I feel Kelly sort of guilted him into doing those things since he was Brandon's friend. Brandon won and I guess Mark felk like well shit, I basically helped my competition win to impress the girl I'm trying to sleep with, who happens to be her ex whom she's still in love with lol. I get why he was a bit pissy.

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I remember rolling my damn eyes because of course asshole Brandon got it.

 

Well he did write about the Twins. Moral of the story is that sports win and that's why life is amazing. 

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Damn...You're on to me. 

 

Seriously though I did like the couple during the HS years but I guess I just didn't like Donna full stop as a character from season 4 onwards. I guess I'll fault the writing on that. I just preferred Donna with someone like Joe who wasn't always wanting sex or someone like Valerie for David who just clicked without the drama.

I guess I'm also in this minority...never understood the buzz behind them other than being high school sweethearts, and that just doesn't intrigue me enough. Plus, Donna as a singular character. I. could. never. get. into. completely. Enjoyed her with Joe for the reasons above.

 

Team Valerie and David forever. And I am firmly Team Clare and Steve as well. They may not have been meant (this sounds weird) to be together forever, but I loved Clare as an individual character, and I think this relationship helped Steve develop and become a wonderful man. 

 

Also, Dylan and Toni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dylan and Kelly. (I know.)

Edited by inyourmarrow
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Yeah, you couldn't carry out the Donna virgin story line with David for many more seasons. The fact that they had it more than 2 seasons was something. He drifted away from her and into Val and before that Clare. But the show is really about the rise of Donna Martin in a way. 

 

I liked Steve and Clare before they made Clare more like Kelly. I actually preferred her trying to get Brandon and her with David because she was different from the other girls. She was funny until somehow they decided "Hey let's not have Clare be funny anymore because Tori does stuff"

 

Yeah I didn't really get the whole David/Donna thing and the whole they look Donna's grandparents stuff. I still find it so badly funny that Donna wanted to sleep with Joe but NO!!! JOE IS A VIRGIN!!! It was so bad because you knew it was coming and that his birthday was on Thanksgiving and her birthday was on Christmas and no one knew who's birthday was when other than those two. 

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Team Valerie and David forever.

I'm 100% with you on this. I was also really into Brenda and Dylan living happily ever after in Europe and not on the show. I mean don't get me wrong, I really missed Brenda because she was the best at being a bitch, but when Dylan left and every so often Brandon would mention he got an email or call from one of them and they were together. I liked that idea. 

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Because back-stage shenanigans with Shannon Doherty!

 

On topic: David and Claire were a nice couple and should have lasted longer. Steve and Claire...not so much.

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Joe loves Donna!  Joe loves Donna!  Damn bird!

 

I bet secretly Donna let the bird out to ruin everyone's New Years. Rose Princess is EVIL!!!

 

I'm 100% with you on this. I was also really into Brenda and Dylan living happily ever after in Europe and not on the show. I mean don't get me wrong, I really missed Brenda because she was the best at being a bitch, but when Dylan left and every so often Brandon would mention he got an email or call from one of them and they were together. I liked that idea. 

 

Personally I think Brenda deserves better than Dylan. Just have Brenda hook up with an English actor, a West Ham United Player or a cricketer. 

 

Because back-stage shenanigans with Shannon Doherty!

 

On topic: David and Claire were a nice couple and should have lasted longer. Steve and Claire...not so much.

 

Agreed. I don't get the love for Steve and Clare. Clare was a jerk to him. At least with David, she was funnier and less of a jerk. At least it gave David some funny moments with that horrible yet endearing hairstyle. 

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Shannon was a bitch, but how about Brenda?  She was mean to Kelly when she liked Jake, but that was all I saw.

 

I don't know maybe people loved Kelly more or Brenda seemed like a better villain. I always liked the Shannen Brian chemistry but they didn't get much. 

 

Anyway Clare and David, the best couple hands down in Season 5. Reason: Dr. Martin got 'static' from their tape. That's all that needs to be said. 

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Which one was Brian?

 

Brian Austin Green.

 

How awkward for Dr. Martin to watch a sex tape featuring his daughter's ex-boyfriend and one of her current roommates.

 

Awkward? I bet he loved it. 

 

They were the comedic duo until they broke up. Lame. 

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I've completely jumped ahead of the podcast and am on season 4 with POP, and my DVR. I hate, hate, hate the Stewart-Brenda episodes. He has no personality, looks like he's 35 and they are engaged after what, 6 weeks of dating? Donna also bugs more than usual in these early season episodes, acting more like David's mom than his girlfriend. At least, they could've given Brenda a love-interest that had a personality.

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Oh, I've seen every episode probably 20 times (or more). I know how Donna gets. Doesn't David break up with her at the end of the season 4 Christmas episode (and her birthday). I remember seeing her cry in the kitchen or back room of the Peach Pit.

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So in the "Hate is a Four Letter Word" VSE near the end when Rolland Turner the controversial figure is speaking at CU, Brandon tells Janice next time they should get someone like Bill Cosby to be the speaker.

Oops!

Edited by geekburger
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So in the "Hate is a Four Letter Word" VSE near the end when Rolland Turner the controversial figure is speaking at CU, Brandon tells Janice next time they should get someone like Bill Cosby to be the speaker.

Oops!

 

Yeah I know what you mean. I was watching that ESPN 30 for 30 on the Buffalo Bills (which they had a clip from the 1st episode of Season 5) and it was OJ Simpson interviewing the players. A year or so later and we all know.

 

Also I remember Season 4 Clare was like "I hate my life!" and then you watch Season 6 Clare and it is like a completely different person. Lame. 

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You know it still bugs me that the writers had Valerie go after Ray.

 

It was the beginning of Val's (long and slow) downward spiral that really made her irredeemable to root for most of the time, which is such a wasted opportunity for the show. Did she just like the power of getting someone else's man (again)? Was it his sweet tunes? His tattoos? His mom? Did she want to buy him that extra T? The residual effects of going "schizo" living with Jim & Cindy? Just because she could?

 

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Thinking about that Xmas episodes.

The one where Donna gets dumped. Everyone saw it coming except her.

Then there is the one with Andrea and Jesse something something something. Just remember Donna crying and David's weird haircut.

Then there was the one with Brandon getting sad over his parents nearly splitting up

Then the episode where Donna's mother goes on some racist and whatever thing.

Man the Christmas episodes suck throughout the whole show.

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