S02.E06: Immortal

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Cole's partnership with Ramse is put to the test when they travel to New York City of the 1970s to prevent the Twelve from murdering a disturbed Vietnam veteran with a connection to the Witness.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

 

Clip:

Edited May 24, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Promo:

Ramse: With that hair? You're gonna fit right in.

Actually, Cole's hair and beard are kind of short for 1975. My bfs' hair was halfway down their backs, and beards were not trimmed.

[Jaded Sapphire]

I love you too show!

ETA: Seriously, that was an awesome episode

[wanderingstar]

I love that note Jennifer left Cassie. Their dynamic the last 2 episodes has been a joy to watch.

Cole + Ramse - still my 12 Monkeys OTP.

Nice to see Noah Bean again, but I knew that wasn't Aaron. This makes me wonder if we'll ever see the Witness. 

Kyle was genuinely creepy. No great loss, IMO.

Next week's episode looks so good!
 

[bethy]

I love this show so much I can hardly stand it. 

So much great stuff between Cole and Ramse. The opening scene with the rubber-band war was awesome. I think there's great potential for the Sam character with both men. I'm just glad that they've kind of lessened the amount of time Ramse spends talking about "my son." (I kept having flashbacks to Michael wandering through the jungle yelling, "Waaaaaaalt!") I also like the hard time Cole is giving him about the kid. Interesting that Cole was the one all, "She's got a kid!" and Ramse was the one all, "Don't get involved."

I wonder if we'll see any of the fallout from the change they made to the timeline. 

I started to be afraid that they were highlighting the brotherly relationship between Cole and Ramse so much for the sole purpose of having Cole try to reject the connection with Ramse so that he could be a "warrior."

I wish that Cassie and Jennifer were going to spend more time together. They were so great together. Team Hyena! 

I thought all the Cassie stuff was pretty creepy.

I liked that at the end while Cole admits and regrets his tendency to jump into things, Ramse's response is to say he's realized that's what's likely to save them all in the end. I expected Cole to "learn" a lesson that he needed to be more careful. I kind of appreciated that his impulsivity is a part of his character and it's a positive thing.

Edited May 24, 2016 by bethy

[snarktini]

Between this episode and last week's Orphan Black, my blood pressure may take awhile to recover.

Loved the scene with Ramse and Cole at the end. I love you, man! Don't be an asshole. Nice to see Ramse smiling more these days. 

[shapeshifter]

There was lots to love about the episode, but why does seemingly every frickin' drama show writer/producer/whoeverisresponsible now feel the need to go all Criminal Minds/gratuitously violent? The hanging body parts were OTT for me. Leave that crap back in Apocalypse Now where it belongs.

Anyway, yeah, loved the final scene. It almost felt adlibbed, i.e., spontaneous.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Cole & Ramse makes one remember that "family don't end in blood".  Its fun watching those two play off each other, and I'm pretty sure Ramse has at least one twice-repeated "Don't do that!" moment with Cole every other episode, especially when they're on mission... and then calls him an asshole when Cole does it anyways.  lol

Is Cassie wigging out, or has The Witness taken up residence in her noggin?  I was thinking she was just hallucinating for almost all episode, and then her own eyes turned black at the very end.  Wacky stuff.

Tab can explained (sort of, anyway)!  Yes!  Liked how they showed Jennifer fisting the hole in 607, while 'seeing' it happen back in 1975 - then seeing the actual fight and punch going through the wall.  This show has an uncountable number of levels to experience & keep track of and they seem to not forget a one.  [Still waiting to see who that guy in the photo with Cole is, though, the framed b/w one in 607].

4 hours ago, bethy said:

I wonder if we'll see any of the fallout from the change they made to the timeline. 

I think the only (apparent) change made was that stopping the final victim from being killed, and then killing (without paradoxing) Slade, is what had the red storm receding into the landscape after they were back in 2044.

Edited May 24, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[thuganomics85]

After having Jay Karnes earlier in the 40s era, The Shield fan me loved seeing David Marciano pop up as one of the detectives.  I'm starting to hope that each era they travel to this season, with have a former Shield actor or actress in that time period.

A lot of great stuff with Cole and Ramse in this one.  They may not be related by blood, but they really do act like a pair of squabbling brothers, who can get on each others nerves and even screw over the other one for selfish reasons, but when the chips come down, they look out for each other, and generally care for one another.  I really like how they are writing them now, and Aaron Stanford and Kirk Acevedo have gotten this nailed down pat, at this point.

I figured the episode was going to end with Cole killing Kyle, because Kyle really is just insane, but I still enjoyed it.

I also figured Aaron's return was just going to actually be The Witness using a face he thought Cassie would respond better too, but that was still a fun return for Noah Bean.  But it sounds like this is only the beginning of Cassie's troubles.  That last journey to the Red Forest must have really screwed her up.

Hope Jennifer isn't gone for too long!

Since they did end up saving Victoria, I wonder if that will impact the timeline in anyway.  In particular, the way they kept bringing up her son makes me wonder if he is going to end up being involved in this somehow, and it will be due to Cole and Ramse saving his mother, instead of him supposedly growing up without her.  Of course, it's possible she ends up dying in another way; especially if she doesn't kick that cocaine addiction.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'd just like to add that if I ever get the chance to be a time-traveler and get to go back to the 70s, I am so totally rocking Foghat's "Slow Ride" as my theme song.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Cole and Ramse saved Victoria, they felt time being changed. There was a boom and then both Ramse and Cole got headaches. This was before the Messenger appeared so the time change was a result of Victoria being saved (not Kyle being saved). Hopefully we'll see something come of that in a future episode.

Ha, you know things are weird when Jennifer is the one suggesting that it might all be in your head, Cassie. Did we see Olivia do that naked bath/red tea thing with anyone else before Cassie? Did she do it to Jennifer in S1? When Jennifer gave Jones some of the red tea to drink, it was a very small amount, not the huge cup that Olivia poured down Cassie's throat, plus Olivia was giving her the whole "you're standing in a field" spiel (which Jones didn't get).

I enjoyed Cassie and Jennifer teaming up last week so part of me is disappointed that Team Hyena has already been (temporarily?) disbanded. I hope we get to see them reunite at some point. High five to Jennifer coming up with that drunk birthday girl story when she found Cassie wandering around the lobby yelling.

Kyle was crazy beyond the regular primary stuff we've seen from Jennifer. There's "I see/hear stuff" and there's hacking up bodies. I kept waiting for Kyle to attack Cole. I thought that whole "I know where the Witness is" story was just to lure Cole back to his creepy lair so he could kill him. What I didn't understand/believe was that he claimed the people he killed were primaries. What are the chances that Kyle somehow tracked down eleven primaries who all happened to be homeless and in New York in a year?

When Kyle was talking about Cyrus the Great's army and how they had no attachments so they were devoted to the battle, I thought that the opposite was also true. Ramse was fighting Cole so hard last season BECAUSE of his attachment to his son. If not for that, he wouldn't care what happened in the past or what the 12 Monkeys did. Similarly, a large part of Jones being devoted to this (and building the machine) was to save her daughter from dying of the plague.

Similarly, when the Witness (disguised as Aaron) said that collapsing time would mean no more death and that you could be with the one you love forever, it made me wonder who he lost and who he wants to be with that he's willing to destroy time.

Loved Cole inhaling an entire plate of pancakes while Ramse flirted with the waitress. Now that Jones has the machine able to pick them up from a specific location at a specific time, you'd think that Cole would be bringing back some groceries whenever he returns to 2044.

[bethy]

They do a nice job of dropping in little things that seem to highlight - for me at least - the difference between Cole's and Ramse's life experiences based on how old they were when the world fell apart. Cole was six or seven? Ramse was thirteen or fourteen? 

For instance, Ramse recognizing real coffee, and Cole not knowing what he'd been drinking wasn't actually coffee. Or Ramse's concern about stealing a cop car while that designation apparently didn't have any particular meaning for Cole. Last week Ramse recognized the MacBeth reference; this week Cole didn't know who Alexander the Great was.

I may be reading something into those moments that the writers didn't intend, but I like the idea of that being the reason.

[MizArk]

So they don't have "real" coffee in 2044 but apparently Jones has an endless supply of cigarettes. I don't know why, of all the wonderful, wacky things that happen in this show, that bugs me and my hubs so much. ha. I can't believe how much I've come to enjoy Jennifer when I found her so annoying at the beginning. And I enjoy Cassie and Jones, but I could watch Time Travelin' Cole and Ramsey as a show all their own.

[Bort]

26 minutes ago, MizArk said:

So they don't have "real" coffee in 2044 but apparently Jones has an endless supply of cigarettes. I don't know why, of all the wonderful, wacky things that happen in this show, that bugs me and my hubs so much. ha. 

Oh, cigarettes are easy enough to make, even ones with filters. I can totally buy that Jones has perfected this process, she chainsmokes like a fiend. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

this week Cole didn't know who Alexander the Great was

It was actually Cyrus the Great and the Immortals that Kyle Slade mentioned to Cole.

[Chaos Theory]

Some things you need to take on faith. BSG did the same thing.  They complained endlessly about lack of bullets but had an endless supply of booze and nicotine.   Even at the end of the world the Black market is the boss.  

And who says Cole doesn't pick up a carton of smokes every time he goes back in time?

Edited May 24, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[bethy]

18 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It was actually Cyrus the Great and the Immortals that Kyle Slade mentioned to Cole.

Ha! And I don't even have the excuse of having the world end when I was six. :) I knew it was someone "the Great." Thanks!

57 minutes ago, MizArk said:

 And I enjoy Cassie and Jones, but I could watch Time Travelin' Cole and Ramsey as a show all their own.

Me, too. I like Cassie and, generally, her relationship with Cole, but I have to admit I was a little disappointed about her return to 2044 just because it will likely mean less of the Cole and Ramse Show. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

At least you knew it was someone the Great! Imagine how disappointing it would have been if Kyle had been talking about George the Mediocre or Greg the Okay. 

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

...I enjoyed Cassie and Jennifer teaming up last week so part of me is disappointed that Team Hyena has already been (temporarily?) disbanded. I hope we get to see them reunite at some point. High five to Jennifer coming up with that drunk birthday girl story when she found Cassie wandering around the lobby yelling....

And from ElectricBoogaloo in the Timeline thread:

Quote

Jennifer tries to team up with Cassie to fight the Witness but Cassie declines, Jennifer leaves to fight the Witness alone and advises Cassie to go back to 2044

I hope we get to see Cassie with older Jennifer in 2044. Team Hyena 2.0

[misstwpherecool]

Dark eyes? Special effects dept over does it?

[Triskan]

This show man... this show ! 

Oh I love it ! 

The plot moved quite forward this week with, finally, the first appearance of the Witness (sort of) and a better explanation at how he/she (fuck it, let's say "it") sees the world and his plans for time.

I hope Cassie will not permanently be "possessed" (or whataver) by the Witness... if she manages to escape his grasp, she could provide a helluva lot intel on him to the table... but she could as well now be utterly destroyed and it was the last we saw of her (though c'mon, nobody believes that for a second)... in any case, I'm quite sure the show will manage to surprise me again and I look forward to ! 

Next week cant come soon enough... happily, there's Orphan Black, Supernatural, Penny Dreadful and GoT to hold on till then... oh, and Wynonna Earp and Hunters who are shaping up to be quite the guilty pleasures the more the episodes unravel... but, anyway, going off road here...

12 Monkey's awesome ! 

EDIT to add : "Team Hyena" ! We need to see more of that one ! 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Triskan

[angora]

13 hours ago, bethy said:

They do a nice job of dropping in little things that seem to highlight - for me at least - the difference between Cole's and Ramse's life experiences based on how old they were when the world fell apart. Cole was six or seven? Ramse was thirteen or fourteen? 

I figured it was more that Ramse got a lot more non-post-apocalyptic life experiences when he went back in time to assist the 12 Monkeys.  He was in the past for decades, whereas Cole, even with his repeated trips to 2015-16 and his two months in 1944, still hasn't run out of new foods and whatnot to catch up on.

[kat165]

What did Jennifer's note to Cassie say? It went by so fast I didn't catch most of it.

Great episode. I'm really liking these mini adventures in time. I'd watch a show just with Cole & Ramse checking out different time periods. As mentioned above. :)

[justmehere]

19 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What I didn't understand/believe was that he claimed the people he killed were primaries. What are the chances that Kyle somehow tracked down eleven primaries who all happened to be homeless and in New York in a year?

----

There's "I see/hear stuff" and there's hacking up bodies.

Yeah, I don't buy it either. While Kyle is Primary, his perceptions were rather off. Case in point: he was certain that a Messenger was the Witness. His war experiences seriously messed with his already messed-with mind and pushed him into hacking-bodies territory. I think he can't sort out which voices/visions are Time related and which are delusions/paranoia (not that he'd know he was having delusions anyway). Maybe some(one) he killed were Primary, but they do seem few and far between, more scattered through time (the guy in the 40s; Kyle in the 70s; Jennifer in our present time). It seems more likely that none of them were what he thought.

[bethy]

9 hours ago, angora said:

I figured it was more that Ramse got a lot more non-post-apocalyptic life experiences when he went back in time to assist the 12 Monkeys.  He was in the past for decades, whereas Cole, even with his repeated trips to 2015-16 and his two months in 1944, still hasn't run out of new foods and whatnot to catch up on.

Right. Well, sure. :)

[coppersin]

8 hours ago, kat165 said:

What did Jennifer's note to Cassie say? It went by so fast I didn't catch most of it.

Great episode. I'm really liking these mini adventures in time. I'd watch a show just with Cole & Ramse checking out different time periods. As mentioned above. :)

"You've still got plenty of fight left. Take yours to the future. I'll take mine to the streets. -J.G." 

I love the creepy factor of this show, like the Witness' outfit and the house in the red forest, so the black eyes work for me.

And next week, more Witness! And the entire team in one location! I'm loving each episode more than the last, so please, please, Syfy, give us a renewal.

[sharkunit42]

On 24/05/2016 at 2:14 PM, MizArk said:

So they don't have "real" coffee in 2044 but apparently Jones has an endless supply of cigarettes. I don't know why, of all the wonderful, wacky things that happen in this show, that bugs me and my hubs so much. ha. I can't believe how much I've come to enjoy Jennifer when I found her so annoying at the beginning. And I enjoy Cassie and Jones, but I could watch Time Travelin' Cole and Ramsey as a show all their own.

The creator says that she grows tobacco herself, so I guess that's canon!  You're not the first one to be bugged by that ;-)

I was wondering what happens when her glasses break - nobody else to make a prescription pair for her!

[Netfoot]

I like Cassie because she is hot, and I am shallow.

But she has great chemistry when paired with Jones, when paired with Jennifer, when paired with Cole...

So, maybe hotness is only incidental to why I like her, after all!

[kat165]

Thank you, Coopersin. I hope we get to see the 2 of them paired up again. I didn't like Jennifer for most of last season, but she's really grown on me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

5 hours ago, kat165 said:

I didn't like Jennifer for most of last season, but she's really grown on me.

I've really liked the JG character since about the beginning, but my real love affair for her started in ep 1.5.

[even though I love Cassie] "Quick question; who's this bitch?" and the unforgettable "Attention Night Room shoppers.....".  Classic lines.  & then there was the 'hostile' takeover of Markridge.  *swoon*

Edited May 26, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[gibasi]

Now that I am all caught up I can say that I am not as in love with this season as everyone else.  I love Cole and Ramses and their relationship, enjoy Jennifer and Jones and Cassie.  It's the way the story line has gone--I am not a fan of all they mystical magic stuff.  I preferred last season.  The fight against the plague was clearly defined.  Now we have The Witness who can appear as Aaron and now might be in Cassie.  Blah.  It's more like an episode of Supernatural which I loved back in the day.  

I still like all the characters but I am not as enthusiastic about the show.

[ZoqFotPik]

On 5/24/2016 at 0:02 AM, thuganomics85 said:

The Shield fan me loved seeing David Marciano pop up as one of the detectives.

He'll always be Ray Vecchio to me.

On 5/24/2016 at 0:50 PM, Triskan said:

Wynonna Earp and Hunters who are shaping up to be quite the guilty pleasures the more the episodes unravel

Has Hunters gotten better? I dropped it after the second episode.

On 5/25/2016 at 10:21 AM, sharkunit42 said:

I was wondering what happens when her glasses break - nobody else to make a prescription pair for her!

"That's not fair!" Seriously though if she's anything like me she has a couple of older pairs lying around. The prescription might not be perfect, but she could probably make do. And honestly grinding glasses can't be more difficult than maintaining a time machine.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ZoqFotPik said:

Seriously though if she's anything like me she has a couple of older pairs lying around. The prescription might not be perfect, but she could probably make do. And honestly grinding glasses can't be more difficult than maintaining a time machine.

Ha! One would think so. Otherwise I can imagine Cole showing up pre-plague at an optometrist's with Jones' prescription. Cassie would be better suited to the task, but Cole would provide more humor fodder.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

& then there was the 'hostile' takeover of Markridge.  *swoon*

Still my favorite Jennifer moment - "Today the dodo bird, tomorrow the unicorn"

Ha!

[sharkunit42]

I wonder how the whole "I was here 57-59" (or whatever it was) on the walls of the creepy house plays into it all.. who was it who got stuck there two years?

 

11 hours ago, ZoqFotPik said:

"That's not fair!" Seriously though if she's anything like me she has a couple of older pairs lying around. The prescription might not be perfect, but she could probably make do. And honestly grinding glasses can't be more difficult than maintaining a time machine.

True, I guess there's probably some sort of glass grinding equipment needed to maintain a time machine!  It's not like having to fabricate microchips or anything..

I dropped Hunters after one episode - it didn't grab me hugely and I was afraid of getting involved in case of cancellation. If it gets cancelled early but ends nicely, or gets more than two seasons I might consider it /cynical