S05.E21: Beginning of the End, Part One / S05.E22: Beginning of the End, Part Two

[Amerilla]

11 hours ago, snarktini said:

When Diana astral projected (or whatever that is) to Nick, they said "Is that Diana?" "It has to be." Except for her not being anywhere near the right age.

I can overlook the age thing as an in-show acknowledgment of "soap opera rapid aging syndrome," but it was still stupid. They all saw Renard introducing Diana with his "family" at his victory party at the start of the episode.    

9 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

I'm not happy about Adalind being hamstrung in a nightie all episode. 

Me either. I expected her to be more central.

I also expected the people around her to care what's happening to her. I understand that sometimes you have to hand characters the Idiot Ball to move the story, but there's no reason for Nick and Monrosalee and the Gang to act like Adalind is with Renard out of bad faith. She's clearly there under duress. So having Rosalee go on about how Adalind looks "happy" at the victory party (when she clearly does not) or having Nick not seem to give a crap about anything but Kelly (when he knows from her note that she's trying to protect him as much as anything else) or everyone just ignoring the seasons they've spent showing how important Diana is to her and how the need to be with her child would be a huge trap for her a) makes no sense and b) doesn't even move the plot in any significant way. Particularly given that Adalind keeps trying to relay how sorry she is to Nick, it makes them all look pretty cold-hearted for no particular reason. 

I did like the way they made Adalind's skin visibly recoil when she thought Renard was going to get into bed with her. That amused me.

[FormerMod-a1]

On 5/21/2016 at 0:18 AM, catrox14 said:

I actually mostly liked this. About damn time Nick was badass in a fight again. I was really hoping Zombie!Nick was back.

Juliette. can just die now

Yes!  I thought it was interesting that Nick suddenly got all his fight skills back as soon as Juliette was de-Eved/d-hexened.

On 5/21/2016 at 0:27 AM, rubyred said:

Amazing that with all that carnage we didn't lose a single series regular. (Dammit *cough* Julieve). I love that there isn't a better canon name for that artifact than "Magic Stick". At least, that's what I call it - does it even have a name in the show?

I've been calling it that "damned" stick.

[Tarasme]

On 5/21/2016 at 10:00 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Diana is still creepy, but at least she's offing bad guys for now.  I do hope someone gives her a nice talk about the whole killing thing, and there is a difference between offing guys who hurt your mom, and those who get her order wrong at dinner.  Because right now, Diana is so someone I can see using her powers for those who inconvenience her.

This! Ever since they're returned pre-teen Diana, I've thought, "someone needs to very quickly begin an education of hitting is bad, hurting someone is bad, smothering someone with a bedsheet is bad, running someone through with a sword is bad, etc."

However, I also thought that Grandma in spirit Kelly would be proud of her.

Magic Stick= Spear of Destiny= Spirit Stick of Destiny. Cause I love "Bring It On."

[OtterMommy]

49 minutes ago, Amerilla said:

I also expected the people around her to care what's happening to her. I understand that sometimes you have to hand characters the Idiot Ball to move the story, but there's no reason for Nick and Monrosalee and the Gang to act like Adalind is with Renard out of bad faith.

Actually, there is quite a lot to make them think that she *could* be there out of bad faith.  Adalind has done some really terrible things to them in the past and, knowing that she's a hexenbiest again, I'm sure they are wondering if she's back to her old tricks.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Actually, there is quite a lot to make them think that she *could* be there out of bad faith.  Adalind has done some really terrible things to them in the past and, knowing that she's a hexenbiest again, I'm sure they are wondering if she's back to her old tricks.

If Adalind was up to her old tricks, she could have taken Kelly and not left Nick a note.  Not dead Juliette Eve warned Nick that BC wants "biests" and we saw the damage done by Diana looking for her Mommy.

The sad fact is Nick, Renard, Hank, Wu, etc.. don't communicate with each other and there are a lot of balls being dropped, no pun intended!

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, aquarian1 said:

Yes!  I thought it was interesting that Nick suddenly got all his fight skills back as soon as Juliette was de-Eved/d-hexened.

I've been calling it that "damned" stick.

Are you trying to say that Nick got his wood back....

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Are you trying to say that Nick got his wood back....

Lawd.

[FormerMod-a1]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Are you trying to say that Nick got his wood back....

Well, it has been mentioned before. :-P

But seriously, it's just a sign that these writers didn't know how to write these 2 people being great (aka "kick ass" brand of great) at the same time.  He has been mostly useless or less than his previous skills for no real reason other than to show Eve "taking names and kicking ass".   Although, as others have mentioned, they do still forget he has that zombie skill and super hearing, so we'll see.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

Totally agree. There was no indication she was up to her old tricks. She left Nick a note. She looked terrified up on that stage.

It's clear Renard has gone dark side and is probably hanging her children's heads over her, yet not one person says, "Hey, maybe..." so that at least someone can shoot it down and give reasons why. 

No, it was Diana that faked the call with Renard's voice to force Adalind to leave the fome.  Renard told Adalind that they were NOT in control of the situation when she showed up with Kelly Jr.  and asked why she brought the baby in the first place!  Upon meeting Conrad, Adalind made a snide comment about him holding Diana hostage.

[Darklazr]

56 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

Well, it has been mentioned before. :-P

But seriously, it's just a sign that these writers didn't know how to write these 2 people being great (aka "kick ass" brand of great) at the same time.  He has been mostly useless or less than his previous skills for no real reason other than to show Eve "taking names and kicking ass".   Although, as others have mentioned, they do still forget he has that zombie skill and super hearing, so we'll see.

Oh, this ticks me off so much!  I hated how the writers had to reduce their lead character to an idiot in order to push not dead Juliette Eve and now Diana.  Ugh.  Nick should have been the ultimate badass on this show after s1 who was taking names and beating folks up!

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

But it was Bonaparte who came to her office and issued the final threat to her, right? He was the one who made it clear she had no choice.He was pulling all of the strings. Diana just made her rush to make the final decision. 

The point is, Renard seems more than on board with the whole thing, to the point where he'll watch Adalind being tortured and kind of ineffectively say, "Oh, hey, that's not nice."

The note to Nick was penned by Adalind as a way to let him know she was protecting him, yet Nick absolutely disregarded it as if it never happened.

Okay, I see your point.  

Once Rachel secured Diana for Renard, he was onboard with working with BC and that is where (for me), I thought he was playing along to get his kid back and information on the latest threat.  

Bonaparte was the one calling the shots and I don't think Renard is the type that would just let it go on for too long.

[ShadowFacts]

I don't have too much problem with the gang not fully trusting Adalind.  The majority of their history with her tells them to be wary.  She has only been with Nick a couple of months, while she was "hexen-suppressed."  Now she is reconstituted, and who knows what that means, but probably something different than the mild-mannered mama they've seen just since childbirth.  I can see where it warrants a couple lines of dialogue, though. 

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

Yeah. As others have pointed out, Renard's actions have been inconsistent. He went from genuinely supporting the other candidate and being upset about his death, to watching people being tortured and being okay with it. It's funny, because I'd thought his support of the other candidate was a scam, and I was surprised to find out he was actually supportive.

I'm waiting for some explanation as to his extreme behavior change. 

I am thinking it started in the scene where Rachel brought up his kid with Adalind.  Renard wanted his daughter back and Rachel was constantly buzzing in his ear and offering him sex.  Eh.  My sexy pants Renard can't seem to keep it in his pants and as one poster mentioned after seeing him in bed with Rachel, it was bad judgement on his part.  Let's not forget that Renard provided dirt on Dixon's opponent and they set him up to kill Arwan.  

Nick and Hank kept Renard out of the loop for MONTHS after Chavez died and never told him what they found out about BC and HW.  Nick's boxers were in a twist the second Renard did not jump to find out what happened to Trubel, Juliette and his dead mother's head and he's been a real ass in keeping his commanding officer out of the loop.

LOL.  Sorry for the long post.  I am sure the writers will backtrack and pull something out of their left big toe and it will make absolutely no sense at all!  Or, they could surprise us and write that Renard was pulling his own long con to bring down BC!

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, SweetTooth said:

It's clear Renard has gone dark side and is probably hanging her children's heads over her, yet not one person says, "Hey, maybe..." so that at least someone can shoot it down and give reasons why. For not ONE person to give her the benefit of the doubt, particularly the man who supposedly loves her and has lived with her? That's just bad writing.

Did Nick ever say that he loved Adalind?  Since I haven't actually watched the show in a while, I don't know....

[OtterMommy]

1 hour ago, Darklazr said:

If Adalind was up to her old tricks, she could have taken Kelly and not left Nick a note.  Not dead Juliette Eve warned Nick that BC wants "biests" and we saw the damage done by Diana looking for her Mommy.

The sad fact is Nick, Renard, Hank, Wu, etc.. don't communicate with each other and there are a lot of balls being dropped, no pun intended!

Unless they had a brain, but went down the wrong thought path, and thought that the note was an attempt to reel Nick in?  

I'm not saying that Adalind's actions were nefarious...I'm just saying that Nick and company thinking that she had nothing to do with going on is not a definite.

[Lii]

On 5/21/2016 at 11:34 AM, Babalooie said:

 

What is the story behind the miracle stick? We know that it can heal and that it also comes with a warning. I look forward to finding out more on its origins next season. I’m still sticking with it either being a splinter from Jesus’ cross or Hermione’s wand.

I respectfully change my vote to this. ^^

 

15 hours ago, snarktini said:

When Adalind and Renard started ripping each other's clothes off, I thought wow the writers are REALLY trolling us with yet another round of magical non-consent. It's not something that's outraged me, but every time they repeat it the red flag rises a little higher. Someone on the writing staff has issues.

Did like badass Nick showing off all his weapons skills and taking out a small army solo. So kind of them to enter and attack one or two at a time!

When Diana astral projected (or whatever that is) to Nick, they said "Is that Diana?" "It has to be." Except for her not being anywhere near the right age.

My Tivo has been forgetting to record Grimm a lot lately. It may be smarter than I am.

The whole consent issue thing is getting ridiculous. Every time they do it, the fans protest. Every time the fans protest, they give us the middle finger and do something even grosser. They can go straight to hell, seriously. That was just nasty.

I was waiting for Wu, at least, to have some snark about Diana being like 30 years older than she should have been. Wu, you have failed this city fanbase.

 

2 hours ago, Tarasme said:

This! Ever since they're returned pre-teen Diana, I've thought, "someone needs to very quickly begin an education of hitting is bad, hurting someone is bad, smothering someone with a bedsheet is bad, running someone through with a sword is bad, etc."

However, I also thought that Grandma in spirit Kelly would be proud of her.

Magic Stick= Spear of Destiny= Spirit Stick of Destiny. Cause I love "Bring It On."

<3

I second this nomination, please.

[Clanstarling]

3 hours ago, Amerilla said:

I did like the way they made Adalind's skin visibly recoil when she thought Renard was going to get into bed with her. That amused me.

I took it as a pre-woge state - a warning that she'd go hexie on his ass. Either way, I liked it too.

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

I don't have too much problem with the gang not fully trusting Adalind.  The majority of their history with her tells them to be wary.  She has only been with Nick a couple of months, while she was "hexen-suppressed."  Now she is reconstituted, and who knows what that means, but probably something different than the mild-mannered mama they've seen just since childbirth.  I can see where it warrants a couple lines of dialogue, though. 

Reconstituted, love it! Now, will she be original recipe, or new and improved?

Edited May 23, 2016 by clanstarling

[Lii]

8 minutes ago, SweetTooth said:

See, I think it's smart that Nick didn't fully pull Renard in, as he is a bit shady. The problem is Nick's inconsistency in who he chooses to trust and with what. Like, one minute he doesn't trust someone but the next minute he does. If he just kept the totally non-shady people in the loop, it would have made more sense. His character was all over the place this season, so you don't understand his motivations.

Ottermommy I'm blanking on the I love yous, but I could swear I remember Adalind saying it. I can't say for sure Nick did as well. Perhaps someone who remembers better than I do can confirm.

Oh, and as for Nick recognizing Diana, he did see her on TV with Renard.

Adalind said it on the phone to Nick right before Renard walked in on her and she had to hide the phone. Dunno about any other time as I usually don't watch this show sober. Almost 100% sure he's never said it to her, but then, I don't recall him ever saying it to Juliette either. He's not really a very affectionate guy, let's be real.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

See, I think it's smart that Nick didn't fully pull Renard in, as he is a bit shady. The problem is Nick's inconsistency in who he chooses to trust and with what. Like, one minute he doesn't trust someone but the next minute he does. If he just kept the totally non-shady people in the loop, it would have made more sense. His character was all over the place this season, so you don't understand his motivations.

Ottermommy I'm blanking on the I love yous, but I could swear I remember Adalind saying it. I can't say for sure Nick did as well. Perhaps someone who remembers better than I do can confirm.

Oh, and as for Nick recognizing Diana, he did see her on TV with Renard.

Renard has not done anything shady since s2 when his real identity was revealed to Nick and the two worked slowly to rebuild their relationship.  I am not saying Renard is an Angel !... however, he did hit the sheets with Juliette when she deliberately ended things with Nick.   It's okay for Nick to run to Renard when he needed help in rescuing Monroe in s4 and the recent blobfish guy being kidnapped, but you are right that Nick is very inconsistent with his actions on the show.

I have another theory that Renard's turn to the dark began AFTER not dead Juliette Eve smoked that stupid hat at HW and turned herself into Renard#2.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Darklazr

[Lii]

I'm pretty sure he WAS trying to go to Nick and them for help getting out of Black Claw's clutches when Juliette jumped into his car that one time to interrogate him, when he seemed all like he wanted to tell her a bunch more stuff but she totes wasn't interested and just jumped right back out of the car and left to stalk him around town instead? Because it wasn't until after that happened that he seemed to make his decision to throw in with Black Claw for realsies. In fact, it wasn't until later that night when he had the meeting with them at the restaurant that JuliEve eavesdropped on that he made his decision. So seriously, her robot nonsense was the catalyst for all of this crap. If she had just waited two seconds and let him talk when he was clearly crying out for help, this whole mess could have been avoided AND they would have had their deep cover agent, but no, she had to go play super wig spy. Seriously, go rewatch that episode (don't though, I wouldn't make anyone go through that). It's really clear, at least from Sasha's acting, that that was the intent. So once again, Juliette's shitty personality and need for attention causes a completely unnecessary bloodbath in Portland. Good job. Can't wait for Nick to take her back.

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, Lii said:

I'm pretty sure he WAS trying to go to Nick and them for help getting out of Black Claw's clutches when Juliette jumped into his car that one time to interrogate him, when he seemed all like he wanted to tell her a bunch more stuff but she totes wasn't interested and just jumped right back out of the car and left to stalk him around town instead? Because it wasn't until after that happened that he seemed to make his decision to throw in with Black Claw for realsies. It wasn't until later that night when he had the meeting with them at the restaurant that JuliEve eavesdropped on that he made his decision. fact, it So seriously, her robot nonsense was the catalyst for all of this crap. If she had just waited two seconds and let him talk when he was clearly crying out for help, this whole mess could have been avoided AND they would have had their deep cover agent, but no, she had to go play super wig spy. Seriously, go rewatch that episode (don't though, I wouldn't make anyone go through that). It's really clear, at least from Sasha's acting, that that was the intent. So once again, Juliette's shitty personality and need for attention causes a completely unnecessary bloodbath in Portland. Good job. Can't wait for Nick to take her back.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Darklazr
updates

[OtterMommy]

40 minutes ago, SweetTooth said:

Ottermommy I'm blanking on the I love yous, but I could swear I remember Adalind saying it. I can't say for sure Nick did as well. Perhaps someone who remembers better than I do can confirm.

I know that Adalind said it to him before they did the deed.  However, the closest I remember seeing Nick come to saying it was when he was out on the roof with Monroe.  Monroe asked Nick if he was in love with Adalind, and he said he didn't know what he felt for her.  And then they talked skanky switcheroo sex.  That was also the last episode that I actually watched....

Edited May 23, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

@Lii, I made a mistake and must of hit the wrong key, so here is my comment on your current post.

There are a few things out of sync in your post based on the show.  1) Rachel was showing Renard the newspaper headline after he killed Arwan and she brought up Adalind/Diana.  Yes, not dead Juliette Eve was listening in on the conversation between Renard and Rachel and she hopped into Renard's car with her five second routine.  2) Rachel showed up at Renard's office to try and get him to commit to running for Mayor.  3) Not dead Juliette Eve was snooping around Rachel's home and found the poster / mailing information and informed Nick and Hank what she found.  4) Not dead Juliette Eve used that stupid hat trick and turned herself into Renard.  5) Renard#2 and Rachel had sex and then he/she clued Nick in on Renard sleeping with the woman and BC wanting hexenbiest/zauberbist...  6) Renard comes home to find Rachel and Diana and that is when he nods his head in acceptance of the offer to run for Mayor/BC... 7) Rachel keeps pushing for Adalind to join their little team and that happens after mother and daughter see each other.   

I may have missed a few steps, but I don't think Renard was interested in BC until AFTER the not dead Juliette Eve smoked that hat and Diana was brought back to Portland.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Darklazr

[Lii]

@Darklazr Oh, that's right. Still stands that he was pretty much begging for help at the point where JuliEve was stupidly grilling him without letting him actually talk, though. I had forgotten that he didn't actually commit that night at the weird restaurant meeting.

Also, why is it so hard to spell restaurant? Seriously, that and business are the only words I ever got wrong on spelling tests in all of elementary school. I swear I have issues with the letter U. Actually, I just have issues in general. Imma just leave that one alone, lol.

[Darklazr]

@Lii,,,oh, let's not talk issues, okay?!  

Renard tried to tell not dead Juliette Eve what was going on and that twit was so rude!  Ugh.  

[jhlipton]

On 5/21/2016 at 11:34 AM, Babalooie said:

[T]here is a hole that needs to be filled.

Good thing Nick's got wood!

Yes, I'm 12!!!

 

7 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

I'm waiting for some explanation as to his extreme behavior change. 

Good luck with that!

At least we're done with that ridiculous name ("Bonaparte") and ridiculouser soul-less patch.

[Lii]

@jhlipton We may be finished with Bonaparte, but if Grimm has taught me anything, it's that there is always an even more ridiculous villain waiting directly in the wings. Sigh.

[snarktini]

7 hours ago, Lii said:

I was waiting for Wu, at least, to have some snark about Diana being like 30 years older than she should have been. Wu, you have failed this city fanbase.

 

Exactly! It was such a natural moment to address her age and Wu would have been perfect. A line of dialogue would have tied up this loose end, even if only as an inside joke to viewers. Until now I thought we were supposed to understand she was aging rapidly due to magical reasons. Didn't Diana gestate super fast, too? After this I assume they are following soap opera rules. I'll stop thinking about it now, since it doesn't crack the top 10 list of dumbest things happening right now. (It might not even be in the top 5 list of dumbest things happening with Diana.)

Edited May 24, 2016 by snarktini

[Lii]

5 minutes ago, snarktini said:

Exactly! It was such a natural moment to address her age. A line of dialogue would have tied up this loose end, even if only as an inside joke to viewers. Until now I thought we were supposed to understand she was aging rapidly due to magical reasons. Didn't Diana gestate super fast, too? After this I assume they are following soap opera rules. I'll stop thinking about it now, since it doesn't crack the top 10 list of dumbest things happening right now. (It might not even be in the top 5 list of dumbest things happening with Diana.)

Not after this episode, it isn't. Between her dollies and that tacky sheet mummy she made, nope, it sure isn't. And I don't mean the mummy was tacky, btw, the mummy was stupid at the time but once I realized Renard was actually waking up next to it and had been sleeping there the whole time, it was legit terrifying. The sheets. Those were tacky as hell. 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Lii

[FilmTVGeek80]

Quote

For not ONE person to give her the benefit of the doubt, particularly the man who supposedly loves her and has lived with her? That's just bad writing.

I think the others being wary of Adalind and her motives is a hell of a lot more in character than them befriending her for most of this season just because she's Nick's baby mama. Given their past with her, and knowing that she got her powers back and lied to Nick about it, I wouldn't expect them to just assume the best with her.

I don't think Nick is in love with her. He's thankfully never declared his love for her on the show. Having said that, I don't agree that he didn't  give her the benefit of the doubt. I believe he explained the note she left to Hank and/or Trubel. I also think Trubel asked him if he thought Adalind had no other choice and he understood her motives.

As someone who abhors the Nick/Adalind pairing I loved that Nick's focus was on getting Kelly back. I don't think he was torn up in the least at losing Adalind. I think he cares enough about her that he doesn't want to see her hurt, but his priority is his child.

[withanaich]

18 hours ago, Darklazr said:

No, it was Diana that faked the call with Renard's voice to force Adalind to leave the fome.

Which is another thing that bugs me. Did Renard ever ask Adalind why she showed up now? Does he know that Diana impersonated him? Does he know why Adalind made up her mind all of a sudden? Such a small thing, I know, but literally one two lines of dialogue could settle that. There are so many things up in the air, and most of them (like this) don't need to be! If they can't even clear this up, how can we trust them to handle bigger, more egregious plot holes?

Quote

I'm waiting for some explanation as to his extreme behavior change.

 Explanation? For behavior changes? That would involve careful planning and shrewdness on the part of the writers ... bwahaha, what show do you think you're watching?

[OtterMommy]

7 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

I wonder after all of the shade Monroe threw JuliEVE's way, if he's suddenly going to be all cuddly-wuddly with Juliette now that she's shed the biest.

Off to the wishlist with my reply....

[ShadowFacts]

18 hours ago, clanstarling said:

Reconstituted, love it! Now, will she be original recipe, or new and improved?

Rebranded - Portland's First Lady.  She can do a crossover to Portlandia.

[Darklazr]

6 hours ago, withanaich said:

Which is another thing that bugs me. Did Renard ever ask Adalind why she showed up now? Does he know that Diana impersonated him? Does he know why Adalind made up her mind all of a sudden? Such a small thing, I know, but literally one two lines of dialogue could settle that. There are so many things up in the air, and most of them (like this) don't need to be! If they can't even clear this up, how can we trust them to handle bigger, more egregious plot holes?

 Explanation? For behavior changes? That would involve careful planning and shrewdness on the part of the writers ... bwahaha, what show do you think you're watching?

No, but I think Renard found out from Rachel that Conrad threatened Adalind and he said Diana had better not find out that piece of information.  So, I guess Renard realized that Conrad's threats are what made Adalind leave Nick.

[iMonrey]

Quote

One question: If there are enough Wessen in law enforcement to staff an entire precinct, then why all the to-do about how the regular justice system can't understand or apply to Wessen crime? Why use this shadowy Wessen Council who never seems to do anything about the day-to-day Wessen-on-Wessen or Wessen-on-human violence (thereby leaving the "Wessen secret" open to exposure) when there are loads of cops who understand what is happening and why, and could handle things quietly? Why does Team Grimm have to work outside the system to handle Wessen matters when the system seems pretty well equipped to take that on? The show is undermining its own premise, and I can't tell if it means to or not!

Not only that, but what's the point in electing Renard Mayor when he's already a police captain and could (conceivably) have an entire station filled with Wesen police? Doesn't that already give him more direct control over the community than being mayor would? If anything he'd have less control. 

I mean - I think the overall intent here is that by moving Renard up the political ladder he might eventually become governor or even President, but in order for Black Claw to essentially wage war on humanity they're going to have to do this on a much larger scale, electing Wesen to high office all over the country simultaneously. Within the premise of this show, I just don't think that's workable. Even if we were given little bits of dialogue about the other political races BC was in charge of elsewhere, it doesn't make a lot of sense to focus on Portland as the hot seat of Black Claw activity. 

At some point - long ago in fact, as early as Season 1 - they really needed to address the question of why Portland is so damned special to Wesen and why every single species known on earth seems to wind up there, why there's such a focus on it, etc. Sort of like how Sunnydale had a hellmouth. 

[DeeDee79]

Hello all: I'll keep this short and sweet. *Deep breath* enjoyable ep; hate what they've done to Renard, annoyed that they killed Meisner instead of fleshing out his character, happy for return of ballsy Nick, disgusted for the return of Juliette, confused because I think I like Adalind now. Also, yay a Monrosalee baby!

[tpel]

For all its problems, there were a few things I liked. Some, other posters have mentioned: the scene when Wu smirks at the wesen cops pointing their guns at each other, the general action-packed pacing, Nick kicking ass. Two other things I want to add: (1) The look on Rosalee's face when Monroe is beating up her obnoxious ex. They've shown before that Monroe getting violent on her behalf kind of turns Rosalee on, and she had a nice subtle smile on her face here. (2) Not being with Nick makes Adalind so much better. It's like she's gone from bland-and-boring back to her feisty personality. Loved it when she called Renard a moron. Renard was great in that scene too -- just the right combination of arrogance and sheepishness when she yelled at him for believing she would want to sleep with her.

[proserpina65]

No, not Meisner!!!!!!

[proserpina65]

On ‎05‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 7:05 AM, ChitChat said:

My hubby thinks it might be the Holy Lance, aka The Spear of Destiny.

"The Holy Lance, also known as the Holy Spear, the Spear of Destiny, or the Lance of Longinus, is the name given to the lance that pierced the side of Jesus as he hung on the cross, according to the Gospel of John."

I figure it's a piece of the True Cross.  Not that I believe in such things, but on a show with Blutbaden and the like, hey, why not?

[SnarkyTart]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 9:27 PM, bentley said:

Thoroughly enjoyed the episode until the end, between Meisner's death and Juliette's comeback. Renard, who I've always enjoyed as a gray character who was mostly on Nick's side, is now dead to me. Standing idly by while watching Meisner die, Adalind choke, and Nick almost die....there's no coming back from that. Even towards the end I had hopes that he was playing a long con on Black Claw. I think they've ruined his character by this late turn of events.

This.  Turning Renard irredeemably evil was the second biggest crime of this finale...the first being the resurrection of Juliette.  This season was tolerable for me once the writers seemingly made it clear they'd only found a way to keep Bitsie by properly utilizing her, um, acting talents:  turning her into an emotionless, expressionless automaton named Eve.  Now Nick really does have wood, and her name is Juliette.

The Sean Renard who placidly allowed Bonaparte to torture Adalind, allowed Bonaparte to murder Meisner (only choosing to quickly hasten his death), and would have continued to stand by while Bonaparte killed Nick, is now a character with no redeeming qualities, imo.  Nick doesn't know that it was Diana who killed Bonaparte (albeit by proxy), so this will allow stupid Renard to con Nick into believing that he (Renard) was playing a long con this whole time, trying to take Black Claw down from the inside.  I'm not looking forward to that storyline, cuz I'm done with Renard.

Now that Bitsie will obviously be returning as not-Eve, and Adalind is regaining her full hexenbeist powers and associated bi-polar emotions, there's no way Adalind is going to go quietly when Nick decides to try to make things work with Juliette again.  We'll likely be treated to more of Adalind trying to kill Juliette, maybe even Nick...again.  I'm not looking forward to this storyline either.

I hated the Diana character and her gross rapey dolls.

I wonder if we'll ever find out how HW and Meisner raised Juliette from the dead and turned her into an automaton.  Maybe HW has something like their own magic stick, and now JuliEve will remember how to use the same magic to resurrect Meisner. Naaah. 

Will we ever learn what that nearly endless tunnel beneath Nick's loft is all about?  Or if the magic Coins of Zakynthos perished in the trailer fire?  With a certainty of only 13 episodes in Season 6, we'll probably get no answers...only more stupid Juliette drama, neutered emo Nick, and yet another pregnancy/baby story.  Yeah.

Edited May 27, 2016 by SnarkyTart

[withanaich]

Sadly, you're right and we probably won't get any answers about the coins (I thought the last we saw of them in-show, Real Kelly had them?). Or the magic stick. Or the tunnel beneath the loft. Or the true nature of hexenbiests. Or or or or or. For one thing, there's not enough time and for another, I doubt the writers even know yet!

[Captain Asshat]

With regard to Renard:

Renard started this show as kind of a bad guy. He's the one who sent the assassin after Aunt Marie in the first episode. As the season went on, the character evolved to a morally gray character who wanted power. He wanted a seat at the Royals' table. Dreamed of being a world leader (visions brought on by the coins) He wound up allied with Team Grimm as he realized that they were the better team, with or without the Resistance, in a fight with the Royals, bad Wesen, etc. However, he still had some shady dealings that he kept from Nick. That's the "good guy" Renard we've seen. He was still a "good guy" this season, until he was tempted by power. He saw how powerful Black Claw was, was offered a power position by them, and he took it.

In this episode, I noticed how his conscience was nagging at him any time Bonaparte used threats and torture. You saw it when Bonaparte went after Adalind, and you saw it when Renard tried to reason with Meisner, rather than outright kill him. He kept trying to get Bonaparte to stop torturing Meisner. Renard's shooting Meisner was an act of mercy. Yet, despite how he felt about Bonaparte's method's, Renard stood by. Why? Because Bonaparte offered him power? Because he would rather have a zauberbiest with so much power on his side? While I don't necessarily *like* this turn for Renard, it's not too far out of character for him. 

[Darklazr]

8 hours ago, Captain Asshat said:

With regard to Renard:

Renard started this show as kind of a bad guy. He's the one who sent the assassin after Aunt Marie in the first episode. As the season went on, the character evolved to a morally gray character who wanted power. He wanted a seat at the Royals' table. Dreamed of being a world leader (visions brought on by the coins) He wound up allied with Team Grimm as he realized that they were the better team, with or without the Resistance, in a fight with the Royals, bad Wesen, etc. However, he still had some shady dealings that he kept from Nick. That's the "good guy" Renard we've seen. He was still a "good guy" this season, until he was tempted by power. He saw how powerful Black Claw was, was offered a power position by them, and he took it.

In this episode, I noticed how his conscience was nagging at him any time Bonaparte used threats and torture. You saw it when Bonaparte went after Adalind, and you saw it when Renard tried to reason with Meisner, rather than outright kill him. He kept trying to get Bonaparte to stop torturing Meisner. Renard's shooting Meisner was an act of mercy. Yet, despite how he felt about Bonaparte's method's, Renard stood by. Why? Because Bonaparte offered him power? Because he would rather have a zauberbiest with so much power on his side? While I don't necessarily *like* this turn for Renard, it's not too far out of character for him. 

All of these things happened AFTER not dead Juliette Eve smoked the hat and turned herself into Renard#2. Let's not forget that Renard is half-zauberbiest and we all know the impact of smoking the hat and creating two versions of the same character (bland but good Juliette versus bland but bad Juliette), and all of the destructions that character did on the show, so why wouldn't the NEW gray Renard character act badly in order to regain custody of his kid and throw his hat into the Mayoral ring?!  If not dead Juliette Eve now has all of her "feelings" and will be forgiven by the Scooby gang, why not Renard or even Adalind?  Is forgiveness on this show ONLY for not dead Juliette Eve?  The Resistance and BC had Diana and I am sure any parent would do whatever it took to get their child back.  Will all of the good that Renard did after Nick learned his true identity be thrown away, because he wanted his kid back and a chance to be Mayor?

Renard told Bonaparte to stop trying to kill Meisner, but it was clear the man had no intentions of allowing a non wesen to live, so he put a bullet in Meisner to end his pain.  However, this is where Nick and Hank should have taken Meisner back to the loft and used the "stick' to save the man's life.  How awesome would it have been for "not dead Meisner" to show up at the North Precinct alive and well to help rescue Nick!  Bonaparte and Renard would want to know how in the hell the man could be alive and Meisner would be out for revenge!

Edited May 27, 2016 by Darklazr

[theatremouse]

I just want to know why, if Eve had the power to do the whole "close up your mouth and nose" thing with magic she used to torture various folks in interrogation, why did she not use the same to seal up her gaping flesh wound. No stick required, bitch produces magic stitches we've seen on screen three times!

Edited May 27, 2016 by theatremouse

[ShadowFacts]

34 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

I just want to know why, if Eve had the power to do the whole "close up your mouth and nose" thing with magic she used to torture various folks in interrogation, why did she not use the same to seal up her gaping flesh wound. No stick required, bitch produces magic stitches we've seen on screen three times!

Really good point.  Plus, an arrow to the neck from Trubel didn't kill Juliette, who only got more powerful after that, why would a glass shard to the gut be any worse? 

Quote

Renard told Bonaparte to stop trying to kill Meisner, but it was clear the man had no intentions of allowing a non wesen to live, so he put a bullet in Meisner to end his pain.  However, this is where Nick and Hank should have taken Meisner back to the loft and used the "stick' to save the man's life.  How awesome would it have been for "not dead Meisner" to show up at the North Precinct alive and well to help rescue Nick!  Bonaparte and Renard would want to know how in the hell the man could be alive and Meisner would be out for revenge!

It also would have been awesome for Renard in that scene to pull an Indiana Jones and just shoot Bonaparte.  He didn't need him, he was already elected mayor. That was the end result, anyway, courtesy of Diana.

[Darklazr]

4 hours ago, theatremouse said:

I just want to know why, if Eve had the power to do the whole "close up your mouth and nose" thing with magic she used to torture various folks in interrogation, why did she not use the same to seal up her gaping flesh wound. No stick required, bitch produces magic stitches we've seen on screen three times!

Woah.  Excellent post and you are right on target!  Why couldn't not dead Juliette Eve heal her own wound with her badass self?!  Okay, I am joking about not dead Juliette Eve being a badass!

3 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Really good point.  Plus, an arrow to the neck from Trubel didn't kill Juliette, who only got more powerful after that, why would a glass shard to the gut be any worse? 

It also would have been awesome for Renard in that scene to pull an Indiana Jones and just shoot Bonaparte.  He didn't need him, he was already elected mayor. That was the end result, anyway, courtesy of Diana.

I don't think Bonaparte would have allowed Renard to get the jump on him, since he is a full zauberbiest and seems to be very, very powerful.  It would have been awesome if Bonaparte's powers did NOT work on Nick when he was trying to get information on the Grimm book.  

[Darklazr]

I really don't buy Diana being all lovey dovey with either one of her parents.  Adalind conceived Diana for the sole purpose of selling the kid to regain her powers and Renard gave his child away to protect her from Royal's/Resistance/Adalind.

[Darklazr]

5 hours ago, Darklazr said:

All of these things happened AFTER not dead Juliette Eve smoked the hat and turned herself into Renard#2. Let's not forget that Renard is half-zauberbiest and we all know the impact of smoking the hat and creating two versions of the same character (bland but good Juliette versus bland but bad Juliette), and all of the destructions that character did on the show, so why wouldn't the NEW gray Renard character act badly in order to regain custody of his kid and throw his hat into the Mayoral ring?!  If not dead Juliette Eve now has all of her "feelings" and will be forgiven by the Scooby gang, why not Renard or even Adalind?  Is forgiveness on this show ONLY for not dead Juliette Eve?  The Resistance and BC had Diana and I am sure any parent would do whatever it took to get their child back.  Will all of the good that Renard did after Nick learned his true identity be thrown away, because he wanted his kid back and a chance to be Mayor?

Renard told Bonaparte to stop trying to kill Meisner, but it was clear the man had no intentions of allowing a non wesen to live, so he put a bullet in Meisner to end his pain.  However, this is where Nick and Hank should have taken Meisner back to the loft and used the "stick' to save the man's life.  How awesome would it have been for "not dead Meisner" to show up at the North Precinct alive and well to help rescue Nick!  Bonaparte and Renard would want to know how in the hell the man could be alive and Meisner would be out for revenge!

Ha!  I am going to respond to my own post.

The show is clearly setting up another round of Nick and not dead Juliette Eve now that she has her "feelings" back, so how can fans root for this couple and not Nick/Adalind or Renard?  Adalind stood at Catherine's grave and said she was going to be a better mother to her children and so far that is the character the show is writing.  

There are times where I think the writers just throw poop against the wall and hope fans don't realize it!

[withanaich]

On 5/27/2016 at 5:19 PM, Darklazr said:

Is forgiveness on this show ONLY for not dead Juliette Eve?

Nah, I think forgiveness is for anyone the writers decide it's for, because they don't understand that there are some lines you don't cross. They keep taking things too far, committing character assassination, and then trying to hit the reset button. Nick's forgiven Renard and Adalind for all the heinous shit they've done, even if it makes no sense for the characters or the plot, so I'm sure Nick will forgive Juliette too. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Or if the magic Coins of Zakynthos perished in the trailer fire? 

Kelly took the coins and hid them somewhere so they didn't perish in the fire. But since Kelly is dead probably nobody knows where they are now. I think we can safely write off the coins for good.