Compare And Contrast: Show vs. Book vs. Similar Works

[David T. Cole]

Compare & Contrast.  Open air spoilers ahead.

[picklesprite]

I just finished the novel this afternoon, so the comparisons are in my face. They've dramatically changed the flavor, upping the suspense, violence, and cussing for HBO. With the darker, more violent tone, I can see where it made sense to turn the mayor into a police chief.  I really liked the mayor, though, so I miss him. Obviousy not a problem for anyone who hasn't read the book.

 

I liked the (much) more gentle flavor of the book, but I'm going to try to judge the tv show on its own merits. I can buy the more apocalyptic feel of it; I just don't know yet  if I'm going to like it.

[whiporee]

I read the book a while ago. After reading the show thread,

I'm worried that people think they are going to get some answers when, unless the show digresses to the point of not being about the book, they won't. 

and as a result dislike the show on its face. 

 

The October 14th scene, as good as it was, seemed more dramatic in the book. Maybe because it was more drawn out (or it might not have been in the book at all). They did a great job of capturing Jill and her friend, and I thought the GRs were dead on. Meg seems to have more backstory here than in the book.

 

One thing that troubled me reading the novel but seemed more apt here was the level of devastation everyone felt. When i was reading the book, I was baffled by people's inability to get past it. But in watching last night, I could see it more clearly. it's not just the disappearance, it's the mystery. They just vanished, and you've no idea why, and you know you'll never know why. 

[picklesprite]

From reading the show thread, I'd say they should have explained the cigarettes immediately, rather than annoy viewers by not explaining it.

 

There's a whole lot more rage in the show than was in the book. I find it believable,but I hope the overall tone won't be one-note. The police chief is already at fever-pitch, for instance, so where's he going to go from there? There's nothing to build to.

 

They've added some new things that I think do work--the dogs, for instance.

 

 

 

[Jamoche]

I read the book a while ago. After reading the show thread,

I'm worried that people think they are going to get some answers when, unless the show digresses to the point of not being about the book, they won't. 

and as a result dislike the show on its face. 

It's by one of the producers of Lost; anyone who expects what you put in the spoiler block hasn't been paying attention.

[car54]

I am reading the book now and I was pretty comfortable with most of the changes, but the one that surprised me was casting a black actor as Wayne.   I'm not sure he was specifically described in the book, I was just picturing an older white man when I read it.   The actor was really interesting--he was younger, and had an accent and I think that may add some things to that part of the story.   I'm actually still reading it so maybe it is too early for me to tell much!

I didn't mind Kevin being made the police chief, but the actor playing him seemed very different than I pictured the character.   The same with Nora.  

[beaker73]

Meg seems to have more backstory here than in the book.

 

It took me until the end of the episode to realize that Liv Tyler was playing Meg.  I thought she was much younger in the book for some reason.  And Wayne--I too thought he was an old white guy in the book.  I can't remember for the life of me if that's how he was described or I made that up in my mind. 

[thewhiteowl]

@picklesprite, they added that??? I think the dog killing is the worst thing about this awful, depressing mess.

[picklesprite]

In the book, Laurie is 46 and Meg is "mid-twenties." Meg's comparative youth made the eventual, er, event more dramatic, probably, but I kind of like this change that makes them closer to peers.

 

I thought Wayne was white, and when I went back just now and checked I realized I had jumped to that conclusion because he was described as looking like a blue-collar Bruce Springsteen kind of guy. The stereotype in my mind kicked in. But I'd bet he was white in the book, and the author has taken the opportunity to make the cast more diverse. The actor playing Wayne is much sexier looking than I thought Wayne would be. I'm not objecting.

@thewhiteowl

 

They did! It was awful, but I totally buy it, because it makes the whole situation look so much more desperate and intrinsically cruel. I noticed that our recapper didn't like the heavy symbolism of it, but I'm a sucker for heavy symbolism, so I like the Lord of the Flies feel of it. (Even though I hated Lord of the Flies, lo, those many years ago when I read it.)

 

The show is giving me one creepy feeling the book never really did, which is that nobody in that world can be sure that a Sudden Departure might not happen again at any time.

 

I don't know how anybody who hasn't read the novel can figure any of it out! Seriously, I can see why it looks like a mess to you. It isn't to me, but only because I know stuff, although any of what I "know" can change.

Edited June 30, 2014 by picklesprite

[ottoDbusdriver]

It felt like in the book that a much larger percentage than 2% disappeared on Oct. 14 -- nearly everyone knew someone that had disappeared.

 

The introduction of the dogs as a larger part to the tv story was odd  -- while there was a very brief mention of one guy getting a ticket for shooting at a pack of stray dogs, there was nothing in the book about roaming packs of feral dogs taking down large animals.  Why didn't the police even seem to be aware of the roaming packs of dogs until now ?  And why wouldn't the dogs start taking down people be a legitimate concern ?

 

That deer that was in the woman's garden (when the sheriff went to notify Dudley's owner) was absolutely fake -- it didn't move at all, not even a twitch (unless it was another vision).  The deer trashing his kitchen just seemed like some script writer pulled that out of their ass (it wasn't in the book either).

 

They should have done some explanation of what the GR acronym stood for, and some back history.  Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense at all.

 

If you didn't read the book, this pilot episode was pretty confusing.  Plus there have been some not-so-subtle changes:

-- there's been no mention of Jill's best friend that disappeared while standing right beside her, which would better explain the state she's in.

-- the lead character was the mayor in the book, not the chief of police.

-- they changed the mayor from a man to a woman.

-- the violent clash between the crowd at the statue unveiling with the GRs never happened

[KurlyGrl]

 

They should have done some explanation of what the GR acronym stood for, and some back history.  Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense at all.

 

 

 

 

From reading the show thread, I'd say they should have explained the cigarettes immediately, rather than annoy viewers by not explaining it.

 

 

 

I don't know how anybody who hasn't read the novel can figure any of it out! Seriously, I can see why it looks like a mess to you. It isn't to me, but only because I know stuff, although any of what I "know" can change.

 

 

I would appreciate any spoilers, cause otherwise I don't think I can finish this show beyond this first episode or two.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I would appreciate any spoilers, cause otherwise I don't think I can finish this show beyond this first episode or two.

 

 

I'll put this in spoiler tags

 

Nothing really happens -- there's no explanation of why the disappearances occurred, there's no explanation of who's really behind the Guilty Remnants (GRs) or why they do some of the stupid shit they pull, the whole nonsense with Holy Wayne goes nowhere (turns out he's just a cult leader/pedophile with a harem of teenage brides he conned into having sex with him so that one or more of them could give birth to his child who was supposed to be important but isn't), Tom and Christie go on the lam to protect Holy Wayne's baby but that also turns out to be nothing special and they just abandon the child on a random doorstep, Jill goes through an abusive period and then considers joining the GR but then bails at the last moment. Mayor Kevin dates Nora Durst (the woman who lost her entire family) for a while, and slowly gets enamored with Jill's friend Aimee that is staying with them (until Aimee realizes the flirting has crossed a line and then leaves abruptly). As a GR, Meg sacrifices herself to perpetrate a fraud that the GRs are being targeted by wackos and should be treated sympathetically.

 

I found the whole book to be mediocre at best -- obviously setting up for a sequel that never happened.  How this ever was greenlit as a TV series is beyond me let alone stretching this out over 13 episodes, but I think it will give 'Under the Dome' a run for its money for the title of shittiest summer programming.  

 

[KurlyGrl]

 

I'll put this in spoiler tags

 

 

Thanks for the information.  Well, I just don’t know what to say now.  And that’s not a good thing for me as I am rarely left speechless.  Really!?!?!?  This is what goes on?!?!?!  I have to laugh.  Yes, it’s summer, and people are out and about.  TV is not a priority.  But at 10pm on a Sunday night, most folks are home as SOMEONE in the house usually has to get up for work the next day, and would like to watch something decent before the news comes on.  But HBO ought to be ashamed of itself for committing money to a project like this.  I think I may watch one or two more episodes, but this will not be a “turn off the phone, ply the kids with cough syrup to get them to sleep early, kick hubby to the curb, watch with closed caption on” type of shows.  

[whiporee]

Hey Kurley. before you give up on it, let me offer a counterpoint to Otto (I'm not disparaging his opinion. But I think he's harder on the book than it deserves). 

 

The Holy Wayne stuff makes a point, that in the aftermath of the massive disappearance, people would be looking for something -- anything -- to make them feel better. As that plot develops Wayne, who started out doing just that, becomes more megalomaniacal. I don't think he's a cult leader as much as he's a prophet trying to help. And I don't remember a harem as much as I remember Christina. But It's import an to remember that he's at least portrayed (and they do it int he show, too, with Buddy Garrity) as somehow having the ability to help ease the loss.

You have to remember that this is about loss. I've read some reviews that say it's about death, and I don't think that's true -- it's about how you deal with and continue to exist after the unfathomable has happened. One out of every 50 people you know has just disappeared (not to mention those who died in the aftermath) -- how do you deal with that. And not dead as in a plague or a nuke, just gone, and in the aftermath you're expected to just go on with life as thought it never happened. It's not a book about plot, so that make sit hard to translate, but it's unfair to say nothing happens because a lot does.

For example, when Kevin and Nora start dating -- they are trying to get on with the business of being aloive. But they can't get past it until he end,when the book ends rather hopefully with Christina's baby being left on Nora's doorstep, and her calling Kevin and asking that they start a family together -- that they move on. Eventually that happens with everyone, for the most part. 

 

Part of the problem with the show is going to be it's a very introspective book where a lot goes on inside the character's heads, and you can't do that on TV. In the book we get a feel at least for what the GR are through Laurie's thoughts, but we won't be able to see much of that, or get a feeling for how someone ends up at the GR in the first place.

And that ties into something else about it -- it's also about trying to able to make sense out of the senseless. Jill's best friend vanishes in front of her -- how does one get past that? I think the show is going to show that Kevin was skewing someone other than Laurie -- how do you get over that? The disappearing baby -- your whole family gone, just like that. How do you come to grips with it? 

 

One last thing:

I don't think Perrota planned a sequel, because if he did, it would be on the shelves. Anybody would publish anything the guy writes. He told his story the way he wanted to, and that's that. Now I think he wants to expand it, but I think it's a misnomer to present the novel as a setup for a failed sequel, because there's nothing in the book that would suggest a continuing saga

. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by whiporee

[KurlyGrl]

 

Hey Kurley. before you give up on it, let me offer a counterpoint to Otto (I'm not disparaging his opinion. But I think he's harder on the book than it deserves).

 

 

It’s good to have another perspective.  Thank you!!  I agree the show is about loss rather than death.  And how folks are not able to cope with the unexplainable.  If a person got sick and died, was in a car accident, killed themselves, even, I guess it would be “easier” to come to terms with the loss.  But not knowing where these people went, just sitting talking to someone who just vanishes in front of your eyes, well, that would make anyone go insane.  Like someone up post said, what’s to say the disappearances won’t happen again?  That would make any person crazy, the not knowing.  And people are drawn to cults for that reason.  To belong to something that seems to understand what no one else does.   And trying to find love and stability in this post - whatever you want to call it - has to be super difficult.

 

 

But see, my problem with the pilot, as someone who has never even HEARD of the book, is that they could have done more to explain up front the reasoning behind some of what is happening.   They didn’t have to spell it all out like I am a 4 year old.  But it just seems to leave too many unanswered questions and too many head scratching moments.  It’s too confusing.  They didn't set the right tone.  Maybe that is the thinking of the producers, to keep folks intrigued enough to keep coming back, but that ploy can also backfire.  Which I think is what happened here.  IMO.  Instead of leaving people wanting more, people are already giving up on it. 

 

 

That is why I like discussion boards.  You can get perspective and insight you never considered before.

[picklesprite]

Yeah, in the different strokes for different folks categories, I'm with whiporee here, and I'll add a couple of things:

 

The baby wasn't left on just any doorstep. I'm not sure I need to entirely spoil that, so I'll leave it there.

There was a harem of sorts--once Wayne's ego got the best of him--but Christine was the "chosen one" because she got pregnant with a child who was supposed to save the world.

 

The show so far is much, much harder edged than the book. The book is very much about character development in the midst of tragic and baffling and frightening events, so the conflicts tend to be psychological and emotional rather than physical. The mayor in the book is a sweet man, and the central figure, who is trying to help and to keep the peace. He's not at all the tough character he has been turned into as the sheriff.

 

The show drops you into situations abruptly that took longer to develop in the book, which made them easier to understand. The book was patient, and the show is not so much.

 

p.s. I just now thought, this is what it may be like three years down the road for the people who lost loved ones on that flight that disappeared. I don't mean they will face roving packs of dogs, of course. But I can imagine them feeling unmoored, still frightened, insecure, unable to trust, perhaps, and so forth. I can imagine them turning to religion/cults.

Edited June 30, 2014 by picklesprite

[ottoDbusdriver]

Part of the problem with the show is going to be it's a very introspective book where a lot goes on inside the character's heads, and you can't do that on TV. In the book we get a feel at least for what the GR are through Laurie's thoughts, but we won't be able to see much of that, or get a feeling for how someone ends up at the GR in the first place.

 

That is the part that I think they will find difficult translating to the screen. Unless a lot of inner monologues start to appear in the next episodes, someone is going to have to start explaining things verbally to the audience.

 

I was disappointed that Holy Wayne basically started out acting like Sybok in Star Trek 4 (he was the laughing Vulcan who "eased people's pain") by telling his story on stage and offering hugs afterwards to help people overcome their grief.  But then the people he helps start working as his minions/believers and it all kind of goes south from there.

 

The book mentions that several groups pop up after Oct. 14 in order to fill the spiritual void -- the GRs, the Holy Wayne followers, the Barefoot People, etc. -- and those are just the ones in North America.

 

I'm curious why they changed the lead character from being the mayor to being the police chief.

[AuntiePam]

What reason was given in the books for the smoking?  I think my guess was wrong (a form of self-flagellation).

[picklesprite]

The smoking:

 

Even in the book, people see the smoking as annoying more than anything. The group is all about civil disobedience and breaking up societal structures. They intend to be presences to wake people up and remind them nothing matters anymore. They have what the book calls a confused theology. They say that Tribulation comes after the Rapture, but it wasn't really a Rapture, so. . .But still, they say nobody's going to live long enough for smoking to matter. They annoy the hell out of everybody, just as they are annoying the hell out of viewers. :) I keep hoping somebody on the show will get in their faces and follow and watch the watchers and annoy them. That never happens in the book, darn it.

[AuntiePam]

picklesprite, thanks.  I was afraid it might be something like that.  It's working!  I'll probably fast-forward all those scenes.

[bravelittletoaster]

I loved Perotta's Little Children, which also was adapted--for film. I always meant to get around to reading The Leftovers but never did until a couple of weeks ago when I had a long flight ahead of me and figured I'd read it in anticipation of the show. I really admired and enjoyed the book and what it seemed to me that it was trying to do: use a fantastical event as a metaphor to explore loss and people drifting apart in the modern world. But the whole time I read it I thought, "I don't know how the hell they think they're going to make a tv show out of this? What are they thinking? Are they just going to change everything?"

The short answer seems to be yes. I liked the book, hated the pilot. Hate what they did to Garvey. Honestly they should have just changed the character's name. That would have made it slightly more palatable to me that the show runners had no interest in using the protagonist in the book, because this isn't that character at all. Instead of the novel's Kevin who is kind and struggling but throughout it all a grounded and stable person, we have what I can only presume HBO thought would be more gripping: a perpetually sweaty and on the brink Justin Theroux channeling Rick Grimes (probably my least favorite protagonist on tv). I can feel a lot of mansplaining on the horizon.

I still don't really know how they're going to sustain this for one season, let alone several, unless they're importing an explanation for the phenomenon that wasn't in the book. I stopped and restarted the pilot several times as my interest wandered, and turned it off entirely at the scene near the end where the dogs mauled the deer, because it was just such an HBO thing to do--look how ugly our edginess is! Don't you want to give it an Emmy? At the end I was just left thinking A: HBO really is starting to get a kind of unified tone across their bleak-ass dramas that I'm not sure is going to serve their brand in the long run, and B: You guys passed on Orange is the New Black and bought this and a forthcoming show by Ryan Murphy? Lol, ok. Fire your development dept.

Edited July 3, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Trick Question]

I'm also curious how the book's premise and characters can be stretched into a multi-season TV series, though given Lindelof's past issues on "Lost," I suspect he might already have an end-date planned out in advance.  He and Carlton Cuse infamously felt they were spinning their wheels midway through the third season of that show, so they went to ABC and arranged that "Lost" would only run for three-and-a-half more seasons (that were shorter than usual network seasons).  It could be that Lindelof and Perrotta already know Leftovers will be a three-or-four season show at the most, unless they veer into much different territory than the novel.

 

While it feels like the creators may have erred in assuming that non-book readers would be able to easily understand and get into this world, I'm still very interested in seeing how the series expands on some of the underexplored or somewhat unexplained aspects of the novel.  The mystery behind the Sudden Departure will more than likely end up being a macguffin that's never actually explained, though am I wrong in believing that Perrotta gave a hint of an explanation in the novel? 

Nora says that just before her family vanished, she'd momentarily wished to be rid of them, and then POOF. I interpreted this as perhaps the Departed were all people who had death/disappearance idly wished upon them at that very instant and some higher power made it happen.

[bravelittletoaster]

Nora does say that, but that's not an explanation in any way, IMO.  Except an explanation for her guilt and inability to heal.  

[NorthstarATL]

I'm curious about two things, and they may have to do with when the book events are supposed to have taken place. The teen girl who is not JT's daughter mentioned the Internet, so it exists, but was this written before texting? Because the GRs could save a lot of penmanship misshaps (and be easier on the viewers) if they could text. Ditto smoking. Was this before the strictest bans on cigarette smoking? Because they could be jailed or fined in some areas for the activity. Why not e-cigs? Same visual, with no harmful effects for the smokers? Or pot? Much less restriction legally. Odd choices, but if it takes place about te3n years ago, they'd be more in keeping with that period.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm curious about two things, and they may have to do with when the book events are supposed to have taken place. The teen girl who is not JT's daughter mentioned the Internet, so it exists, but was this written before texting? Because the GRs could save a lot of penmanship misshaps (and be easier on the viewers) if they could text. Ditto smoking. Was this before the strictest bans on cigarette smoking? Because they could be jailed or fined in some areas for the activity. Why not e-cigs? Same visual, with no harmful effects for the smokers? Or pot? Much less restriction legally. Odd choices, but if it takes place about te3n years ago, they'd be more in keeping with that period.

 

The book was published in 2011, and it appeared to be very current to that time period + 3 years.  No fancy new technology or anything different from what we see in today's society.

 

In the book the GRs do use tech things like phones and Instant Messaging over the Internet, I think that they choose to not used tech for some things.  But yeah, text messaging would allow them to explain things a lot more easier and explicitly (and not have to try and decipher quickly written bad handwriting)

 

Plus there is a website that was setup for the release of the book -- http://www.guiltyremnant.com -- that the GRs in the book had the URL printed on the back of their business cards (and that website is still functioning).

[bravelittletoaster]

In the book (and I feel I can say this since we're already past this point on the show) the Feds just calmly arrest Wayne because he's a charlatan fucking underage girls. There's no shoot out, there are no dead teens. It makes me wonder what the show's agenda is with that. Tho it does just have a general vibe of "let's butch this up a bit," starting with Kevin, who's the sensible, calm, mild mannered mayor in the book. Apparently someone thought the proceedings all needed a bit more testosterone poisoning.

[bravelittletoaster]

I think the smoking is meant to be off-putting and even a mild act of civil disobedience (much as their weird stalking behavior is) so I think the world of the book is meant to have our modern attitudes about smoking, they're just flouting that.

[whiporee]

I think one of the things that gets overlooked by us watching -- one of the things that I keep reading everywhere -- is that the magnitude of the loss isn't really picked up on. I think most people see the occurrence as something like 9-11, tragic but recoverable. This event was 60 thousand times that -- even in the US you're talking about 1.5 million people just gone. I don't think that is nearly as recoverable as we watching might think. It would send people to cults because there would be no understanding it. It would cause a breakdown of everything because you wouldn't have any idea of what to trust anymore. If you thought of it as a rapture and were left behind, what does that say about you and God? If you had been atheistic, what would you think then when something clearly supernatural had occurred? 

[ottoDbusdriver]

Couple of major differences from the book in Episode 3:

-- In the book, Father Jamison was not related to Nora Durst.  In fact he publicly outed Nora's husband as an adulterer via his newsletter. In the TV show, Father Jamison is Nora Durst's older brother and he only outed her husband's extramarital details to her only.

-- In the book, Father Jamison's church was not sold to the GR, nor was there any mention/inclusion of an Indian casino nearby.

[Trick Question]

A few more book/show changes...

 

* Kevin wasn't cheating on Laurie in the book.  (I'd guess from this that the brief flashback of "what he was doing during the Departure" was he and the mistress.  Maybe she vanished during sex?)

* Laurie doesn't go back for the lighter after she ditches it.  That was actually one of the book's creepier scenes to me, the first of many signs that Laurie wasn't just going to eventually snap out of it.

* I forget, but Tommy was Kevin's biological son in the book, right?  If so, that's a pretty major shift in family dynamic that the show has wrought.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Trick Question

[ikmccall]

The cremation in the last episode? That wasn't in the book, was it?

[The Solution]

For people who've read the book: Given where we are in the TV series right now, do you think they can drag this out for another season, or is the thing going to wrap up in 3 more episodes?

[ottoDbusdriver]

For people who've read the book: Given where we are in the TV series right now, do you think they can drag this out for another season, or is the thing going to wrap up in 3 more episodes?

 

Probably drag it out as long as they want -- they can continue for another season because they have been making up so many new things up the last couple of episodes that aren't in the book at all.

 

Here's some examples that were not in the book

-- Holy Wayne following up on the progress of his teen brides/girlfirends (Wayne spends the bulk of the book in jail, as the Feds catch him when they storm his compound, and Tom never meets another of the other pregnant teens)

-- Teenagers playing the asphyxiation game in the fridge

-- Nora going to the DROP conference in New York (Nora goes into a downward spiral and never really recovers, and she never worked for the Dept. of the Suddenly Departed).

-- Kevin's crazy father

-- big bald asshole (BBA) shooting the dogs

-- Reverend Matt having to save his church (I don't think he had a paralyzed wife either).

-- Kevin's run-in with his missing shirts at the dry cleaner

 

Take all those things out, and you don't have a lot of show left just from the book.

[The Solution]

Okay, I read the book for myself. It was a pretty quick read and a decent book. This television series is only loosely based on the book and chock-full of bullshit.

 

In short, just read the book and skip the TV show. You'll thank me.

[ktwo]

I just finished the book - finally! - and have only watched the first two episodes of Season 1. I read the first half of the book a while ago, but a combination of not getting very into it - which is weird because I have loved everything else Perotta has written - and misplacing it, I finished the last third today. The book definitely hinted that Wayne was black when they described the baby at the end having fuzzy black hair along with Christine's Asian features, although I don't recall how Wayne was described at the beginning. I usually associate the name Wayne with white rural folk, though. Will be watching the rest of season 1 this week but I am not thrilled at the changes they've made so far.