S02.E09: The Goodbyes

[OnceSane]

Coyote shares some surprising news.  Things go awry when Frankie and Sol host a family brunch.  Grace must make a difficult decision about Phil.

[OnceSane]

Wow. I was honestly surprised that Coyote's bio mom was cool with meeting him but didn't want him in her life.  That was not the impression I got from her interacting with everyone at brunch.  Frankie nailing her in the head seems almost justified.  And it was nice to see Frankie try to hide her true feelings to support her son, but her body not letting her do that (breaking Jesus, stepping on the toes).

[hnygrl]

This one wasn't one of my favorites. I fast forwarded through most of the bio-mom nonsense. It really pissed me off that NOBODY dealt with the WHY until the bitch was out the door. And the fact that this whole visit was a secret should've come up sooner. I kept waiting for Frankie, Bud, SOMEBODY to ask her WHY. That should've been the first damn question. "So good to meet you.. WHY did you give Coyote up for Adoption? Not that we're sad you did, but WHY???" Which would lead to "So how does your family feel about you having a 30 year old son? They excited to meet him"

Should've happened the first five minutes.

[Maysie]

I really liked Frankie in this episode - when she's being a mother, she's great. As for Bio Mom . . . I don't really have an opinion about what should have happened/how it should have transpired. I can say, however, that I bought the premise that for her, this was a fact-finding mission. I imagine she just wanted to meet her son and see how he was/know he was okay to make herself feel better about the decision. If she's put together a life that didn't include him in the narrative, I can see where, in her comfort zone, Coyote doesn't have a place, even all these years later. People are freaky about secrets and the past and all that. I do agree that she should have clued him in on her intentions, however. There's also the possibility that she entered the meeting being at least open to the potential of having a relationship with him and introducing him to her family, however after meeting the freaky family decided she just couldn't go there.

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

If Coyote is supposed to be 30-35 (Ethan Embry is 37), and Krystle couldn't possibly be more than 50, I think the "why" about giving Coyote up for adoption is pretty clear. 

Loved Coyote's "My mother is sitting right next to me.", but Bud, Frankie's caretaker/Sol's nurturer/Coyote's guidepost is gonna crack. He has no identity outside his family, and the more everyone moves on, he's starting to spin. The whole brunch with Krystle definitely put a huge strain on him. 

[Julia]

I want more Bud. He's a smart, funny, good-looking guy who apparently has no life outside of his job and enabling his profoundly neurotic extended family. I'm increasingly believing that it was him and not Frankie who paid the psychic bills for her and Sol's folie á deux, up to and including caregiving Coyote. I may actually ship him with Brianna.

I think it's great that Frankie marches to her own drummer, and I'm glad she has blessedly sane yam guy to love her and not get pulled into her damage. But (future episode content - there be dragons)

Spoiler

I can understand why drunk Grace would lash out at her. Grace worked very hard at being a mother and a businesswoman, and everyone - including Frankie the humanitarian - mocks her. Frankie, like Sol, seems to float through life being lovably eccentric and leaving the people around her to judge each other on how they handle the fallout. 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Julia

[txhorns79]

Quote

I can say, however, that I bought the premise that for her, this was a fact-finding mission. I imagine she just wanted to meet her son and see how he was/know he was okay to make herself feel better about the decision. If she's put together a life that didn't include him in the narrative, I can see where, in her comfort zone, Coyote doesn't have a place, even all these years later. People are freaky about secrets and the past and all that. I do agree that she should have clued him in on her intentions, however. There's also the possibility that she entered the meeting being at least open to the potential of having a relationship with him and introducing him to her family, however after meeting the freaky family decided she just couldn't go there.

I can believe she came there simply to make herself feel better, without giving much thought as to the next steps.  I will say she gave Coyote the gift of seeing why he was so much better off without her, so there's that.  Otherwise, I see her actions in showing up, then essentially closing the door to any future meeting as extreme selfishness.  

[meligator]

I didn't like it - he could have had 2 mothers - You acted just like your mother could have been fine - there didn't need to be a reaffirmation afterwards.  BLAH

[BusyOctober]

Why is Robert being such a dick about Sol?  That seems like the biggest plot hole to me.  They were friends and lovers for 30 years.  Robert cheated on Grace for 20 of those years with Sol.  Sol had one emotional night of goodbye, closure sex with his ex-wife of 20 years, not some rando he found on Grindr.  

[zxy556575]

3 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Sol had one emotional night of goodbye, closure sex with his ex-wife of 20 years, not some rando he found on Grindr.  

When you think about it, Robert must have a shit ton of stockpiled anger and resentment towards Frankie.* Here he was in a decades-long relationship with someone he was deeply in love with, and that person continued not only to have sex with, but also maintained a loving emotional connection with someone else. Sol was cheating on both Robert and Frankie.

 

 

* Directed at Frankie because the person who's cheated on always blames the third party in the triangle.

[Aja]

57 minutes ago, lordonia said:

When you think about it, Robert must have a shit ton of stockpiled anger and resentment towards Frankie.* Here he was in a decades-long relationship with someone he was deeply in love with, and that person continued not only to have sex with, but also maintained a loving emotional connection with someone else. Sol was cheating on both Robert and Frankie.

 

 

* Directed at Frankie because the person who's cheated on always blames the third party in the triangle.

That's one element of this show that feels like too much suspension of disbelief, actually. It didn't seem like Robert and Grace were that emotionally connected, making Robert's affair more plausible. But Sol must be a special kind of evil to allegedly love and respect Frankie to the degree that he claimed to and essentially lie to her face every day for 20 years.

[JBC344]

With that said I can believe that Sol could totally compartmentalize his feelings for Frankie, which I think turned into more loving best friend whom he sleeps with, and his relationship with Robert.  In other words Frankie and Sol were "Will and Grace" who sleep together from Sol's point of view, but I could see Frankie interpreting that behavior as "loving husband who adores me, with whom I have a great marriage with."

[Bastet]

“You broke Jesus?”
“He’ll come back, that’s his thing.”

Ha!  The gathering with the birth mother cracked me up, when they were trying to explain the various relationships to her.  As did the family gathering before that when Coyote told them.

I don't have a problem with her meeting with Coyote being a one-off, but she definitely should have told him that when he first reached out -- yes, I am open to meeting with you, but I don't want to have an ongoing relationship with you -- and let him decide how he wanted to proceed.

Brianna has competition – Bud is vying for the title of my favorite character other than Grace and Frankie.

Oh, Grace.  You've waited this long, you can't wait until the wife is dead?

[Eeksquire]

Oh man, the whole business with the Jesus statue was pitch perfect on all sides.

[Jillybean]

I really like Carrie Preston, but she was the wrong choice for Coyote's bio-mom. The two actors are only 10 years apart in age. I'm constantly confused about the ages the "kids" are supposed to be, but EE and CP both look their ages (he doesn't look any younger, and she doesn't look any older), and the choice made no sense. It took me out of the episode. 

Apparently he and Mallory are supposed to be about the same age, but the choice to have Brookyln Decker play a character several years older than her actual age doesn't work either, even if they constantly have her in little to no makeup.

[Julia]

Ordinarily I would agree with you, but my assumption about Carrie Preston's character was that she got pregnant as a teenager. I can't picture her being able to keep a year of pregnancy in her adult life a secret.

[Jillybean]

5 hours ago, Julia said:

Ordinarily I would agree with you, but my assumption about Carrie Preston's character was that she got pregnant as a teenager. I can't picture her being able to keep a year of pregnancy in her adult life a secret.

Even still, the 10-year age difference between the actors is a problem for me, i.e. he doesn't look younger than he is and she doesn't look older than she is.  I wasn't able to buy that they are 15+ years apart in age.

[chitowngirl]

I could buy the age difference-he's a recovering addict, which can age you and she seems to be living a cushy Southern Belle lifestyle. 

[Hecate7]

On 5/18/2016 at 2:43 PM, Aja said:

That's one element of this show that feels like too much suspension of disbelief, actually. It didn't seem like Robert and Grace were that emotionally connected, making Robert's affair more plausible. But Sol must be a special kind of evil to allegedly love and respect Frankie to the degree that he claimed to and essentially lie to her face every day for 20 years.

That's not what I get. He's not "evil." He's far more susceptible to guilt and anxiety than any of the other characters. He wanted to tell Robert about Frankie right away, because he knew he couldn't keep the secret forever--it was everyone else who insisted he lie. And Robert's heart attack made it impossible to tell the truth until Robert was on his feet.

As for lying to Frankie for so long, that's also not evil, that's protecting Robert, the kids, etc...Sol can't bear to see anyone hurt, not ever, not over anything, and especially not over something he himself has done. I think if he'd had his druthers Sol would have had an open relationship the entire time, and told the truth from day one.

I sort of wonder if Sol is polyamorous by nature. He didn't hook up with other lovers besides Robert and Frankie--I think he actually has to be emotionally engaged to start with, which is why the gay hookup culture of the 70s and its current parody in gay party and bar circles just doesn't excite him much. But I think once he is emotionally engaged, he'd rather negotiate a way to keep everyone in everyone's life, than make a clean break and move on.

In Sol's shoes, Grace or Robert wouldn't have even confessed. They would have filed it under "none of your business," and gone on with their lives.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Hecate7