S02.E01: The Wish

[OnceSane]

Sol plans to tell Robert about his betrayal.  Frankie is determined to finally separate emotionally from Sol, but events pull her back in.

[imjagain]

I'm glad we got a new season!  I'll binging on it this weekend. 

[OnceSane]

Weird how life imitated art.  Robert's heart attack and the family rallying around him was great.  Especially when Robert told his doctor they were all family.  And I appreciated Sol not wanting to enter married life with Robert while he wasn't being honest, but did it for Robert.

But I LOVED Frankie being more than a little annoyed that Sol considered their ONS a "fuck up", but not lying to and cheating on her for twenty years.

Poor Grace.  Feeling guilty and trying to "Grace" her way through everything.

Mallory is pregnant with twins!  Holy cow!

[Julia]

Oh, Sol. I genuinely didn't think he could be more of a narcissistic putz. 

[RCharter]

Wow, was the dressed up daughter always this much of a bitch?  She may turn out to be the reason I skip the rest of the episode.  Maybe the rest of the season.

Edited May 7, 2016 by RCharter

[Blakeston]

On 5/6/2016 at 3:09 PM, OnceSane said:

But I LOVED Frankie being more than a little annoyed that Sol considered their ONS a "fuck up", but not lying to and cheating on her for twenty years.

I'm not sure why she took it the way she took it. All Sol said was that he fucked up - and that seemed pretty accurate to me. He didn't imply that sleeping with Frankie was his only fuckup, or that it's uncharacteristic of him to fuck up that way.

[Maysie]

I think I was lukewarm on this partially because it's been a year and I feel a bit out of touch. It would be nice if Netflix did a very short "previously on" reel when they start a new season of anything.

While I appreciate the premise of Sol wanting to start his marriage without the burden of a lie (especially considering that much of his marriage to Frankie was basically one big lie), I am not on board with him confessing the one night stand with Frankie to Robert. I've never been one to support the premise of confessing to a one night stand to relieve yourself of guilt or absolve yourself of your bad decision. Serial cheaters, long-running affairs are a different story, imo.

I haven't re-watched the first season, so I may be wrong, but what I remember is Frankie and Sol had somewhat spontaneous, consensual sex. I cannot remember if Sol initiated it or not, but the bottom line is he made the choice to cheat on Robert, for whatever reason, because ultimately, it made him feel better about things. It seems to me that confessing the infidelity will make SOL feel better (I'm such a good/nice/honest man that I had to be truthful about my bad judgement and take whatever nasty things my partner will say about me), but all it'll do is piss Robert off/hurt him and cause a lot of grief.

Of course, the entire family knows at this point (does anything stay private with this group?), so that may be a reason to come clean. Otherwise, my feeling is Sol made the mistake (with Frankie) and if it doesn't affect his feelings about Robert, Sol and Frankie should have to live with it.

[OnceSane]

5 minutes ago, Maysie said:

I think I was lukewarm on this partially because it's been a year and I feel a bit out of touch. It would be nice if Netflix did a very short "previously on" reel when they start a new season of anything.

 

They do…sorta.  There is a recap in the "Episodes and more" section of the show, I believe the recap clip is just above the trailers.

[Maysie]

Quote

They do…sorta.  There is a recap in the "Episodes and more" section of the show, I believe the recap clip is just above the trailers.

Thank you! I had no idea. This will help a lot.

[OnceSane]

13 minutes ago, Maysie said:

Thank you! I had no idea. This will help a lot.

You're welcome!  I just checked and it can be found in the "Trailers and more" section, just below the Season 1 Trailer.  It's called "Grace and Frankie: Season 1 (recap)" and its 1-2 minutes long.

[AuntieMame]

I agree that this is an infidelity that could profitably be kept between Frankie and Sol. After all it did finally really mark the end of the marriage. OTOH, Sol knows the toll a secret can take on a relationship and doesn't want that poison in his relationship with Robert. The more I think about it, the more I think it would be the perfect karmic penance for Sol to have to keep this secret. 

Its amazing to me that the affair was a secret for decades as nothing else seems to be in this group. This show looks like fluff at first glance, but subtly asks some pretty interesting moral questions.

[Julia]

6 hours ago, RCharter said:

Wow, was the dressed up daughter always this much of a bitch?  She may turn out to be the reason I skip the rest of the episode.  Maybe the rest of the season.

She was. But her damage is that she's her father's daughter, and as much as her father always undercut and dismissed her mother, it never occurred to her that her father got away with being who he was because Grace was behind the scenes making everything perfect for him. Now, she's a capable, hard-charging, successful woman and everyone's judging her because she's exactly as much of an asshole as her dad is but she doesn't have someone like her mother or her sister making it work. It's like rain on your wedding day...

[zxy556575]

1 hour ago, Julia said:

She was. But her damage is that she's her father's daughter, and as much as her father always undercut and dismissed her mother, it never occurred to her that her father got away with being who he was because Grace was behind the scenes making everything perfect for him. Now, she's a capable, hard-charging, successful woman and everyone's judging her because she's exactly as much of an asshole as her dad is but she doesn't have someone like her mother or her sister making it work. It's like rain on your wedding day...

I'm not arguing against this, but I always figured Brianna learned how to be an aggressive business executive from Grace. We only saw her briefly as the president of her company before she retired, but she came off as pretty ruthless to me.

Normally I would advise that Sol not confess his infidelity because doing so would be needlessly cruel to Robert. And as @AuntieMame suggested, being quiet about it would be punishment for Sol himself, and he's the one who transgressed. However, it has to come out now that all the kids know because sure as shit none of them (except maybe Bud) can keep a secret. Sol is also too guilt-ridden and self-involved not to unburden himself.

One thing that felt a little off was Robert being so fond of/emotional about Bud and Coyote. I don't remember either of the dads being particularly close to the other one's kids.

In addition to the previouslys, the wiki episode summaries for season one are a brief refresher.

Edited May 8, 2016 by lordonia

[Julia]

17 hours ago, lordonia said:

I'm not arguing against this, but I always figured Brianna learned how to be an aggressive business executive from Grace. We only saw her briefly as the president of her company before she retired, but she came off as pretty ruthless to me.

She struck me that way too. I just think their family damage plays out by everyone dismissing Grace's contributions while they rely on on them. And I think the only way their kids would see her social contribution would be through her husband, who treats her like a joke. 

And in fairness to Brianna, it doesn't seem likely that Grace put a lot of energy into being socially deft with her children. 

[Empress1]

If no one but Frankie knew about the sex, I'd definitely say to keep it a secret. Telling Robert would only hurt him - it would unburden Sol, but at Robert's expense. It's not going to happen again and he clearly didn't do it as a way to end his relationship with Robert - to "cheat out." But since everyone EXCEPT Robert knows, they have to tell him. I loved them popping around to different people trying to get them to do the wedding. "Even with this new Pope? I hear he's really shaking shit up."

[Crs97]

Once again, with all the angst only Grace made me cry.  Paraphrasing - You will not die.  I wasn't allowed to be mad at you because you were gay.  I'm not allowed to be mad at you now because you're sick.  You cannot die; I have 40 years built up of stuff to say. 

Jane hits all the right notes in that scene.

[morakot]

Frankie's situation is too close to my own not to make me cry. I really felt for her having to officiate the marriage of her ex-husband/best friend to his new husband. Even if the sex was closure to the marriage, it was only a day ago.

[Bastet]

I'm so glad this show is back.

The scenes with the four of them in the hospital room were wonderful, especially when Robert said they're all family - the doctor can talk to all of them.  (I also liked Nora Dunn saying she's just going to quit guessing [who the spouse is] because she always gets it wrong.)

Grace exploding that Robert does not get to die right now, because she hasn't been allowed to express 40 years' worth of anger yet, was perfect, as was his quiet acquiescence and then her pausing - out of his sight - to say she didn't mean it when she said it would have been better if he'd died than left her.  Their relationship intrigues me.

I liked the two sisters clasping hands as they prepared to enter the room.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Bastet

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Their relationship intrigues me.

I agree, and I hope in Season 3 (there will be a Season 3 right?), that Grace and Robert deal with each other.  It seems like a lot of the show has been devoted to the devolution of Frankie and Sol's relationship, but not as much with Grace and Robert.  Even if their marriage wasn't as close and affectionate as Frankie and Sol's was, they do still share two children and (soon to be) 4 grandchildren and the conversation in the hospital room goes to show that they haven't reckoned with the consequences of that.  I'm hoping that 

Spoiler

the revelation of the gift stash and the proposed sale of the family home will bring that into the forefront in the next season, the same way that Frankie and Sol sleeping together in Season 1's finale propelled the action in Season 2.

[hatchetgirl]

The cast has seemed to come into their own.  Robert and sol (the actors) have finally gotten into a better groove.  I felt they were always playing gay which was such a distraction.  With this episode, they seem to be acting and not playing.  Bravo. 

Jane and Lilly are just wonderful together now that we don't have the whole "I never liked you" shtick from last year.  

[BW Manilowe]

Late to the party, but let’s just embrace the fact that I showed up at all, as they used to say on the last show Ms. Tomlin & Mr.Sheen co-starred in. At some point after this show started (I forget which season they were filming/about to start filming at the time), Mr. Sheen had real life heart bypass surgery during a Christmas break between seasons (I forget how many blood vessels were involved; I wanna say 4) that wasn’t classified as emergency surgery—more like proactive (I think that’s the right word), taking care of an issue before it becomes bigger & more dangerous/life threatening. Having binge watched this ep early this morning, I wondered if it was merely a coincidence that Robert also had heart surgery, or if it was written in because of Mr. Sheen’s recovery period from his real life cardiac surgery. Does anyone know/remember how the cardiac events were connected?

[Bastet]

9 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Mr. Sheen had real life heart bypass surgery during a Christmas break between seasons (I forget how many blood vessels were involved; I wanna say 4) that wasn’t classified as emergency surgery—more like proactive (I think that’s the right word),

Elective is the term used for such surgeries (although obviously proactive also accurately describes the general situation).

9 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Does anyone know/remember how the cardiac events were connected?

When Sheen had and recovered from his surgery, it was during the hiatus between seasons two and three, so Robert's heart attack and subsequent surgery had long since been filmed; filming on season two wrapped about a month before the surgery.

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Elective is the term used for such surgeries (although obviously proactive also accurately describes the general situation).

When Sheen had and recovered from his surgery, it was during the hiatus between seasons two and three, so Robert's heart attack and subsequent surgery had long since been filmed; filming on season two wrapped about a month before the surgery.

Thanks for reminding me about “elective”. I’m the kid of 2 former medical/nursing  professionals (1 deceased almost 2 years ago), plus I’ve had way more than my share of hospitalizations & procedures myself, so you’d think I’d remember the word “elective”, in the medical/hospital sense, easier. Maybe I can remember it better now, since (finally... sometimes I’m a late bloomer) noticing “emergency” & “elective” both start with E.

I thought I’d remembered Mr. Sheen’s surgery was between S2 & S3; I did remember he returned home right before Christmas & there was a picture in various celebrity media sources of him holding a pillow showing the anatomy of the heart, with all the blood vessels. His son Emilio also acted as spokesman for the family during his illness, as I remember.

I still find it rather ironic that Mr. Sheen & his character both went through cardiac surgery within about 2 years of each other.