S12.E22: Mama Tried

[Eolivet]

Since everyone has already commented on the Callie/Arizona storyline, I will say how surprised I am that Jackson and April's scene is being referred to as "co-parenting" and "adulting." From where I was sitting, they were gazing longingly into each other's eyes -- I couldn't tell whether it was a custody arrangement or a date (or both). This was not a dispassionate discussion that was the model of maturity -- this was a starry-eyed look into their future (never mind that it was a future supposedly apart). if they weren't divorced, you'd assume they were just a normal couple talking about things were going to be like when the baby was born. They don't fool me at all -- they're not adulting, they're backsliding. The question is where it goes from here.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Grey's Anatomy Moves Out Of The Operating Room And Into The Courtroom

The custody battle for Sofia takes center stage.

[Catznip]

I don't understand all the hoopla with Mark and Callie hooking up and conceiving a child. IRL it happens...I know several women in a lesbians relationship with children that weren't conceived with a turkey baster.  If Arizona got drunk and hooked up with a man then I could understand the outrage with this storyline. 

[craziness]

More thoughts on the episode and on some people's comments. 

Callie and AZ did read through sperm bank bios (I think in the Callie gets sued retcon ep in season 10).

I would like to join Richard and AZ's trivia team.  25 wins in 26 weeks (6 months) is an amazing record.  Unless they go to trivia more than once a week...

I think Callie signaled to her lawyer when Richard  was on the stand,  to go after/slut shame AZ.  If you watch close,  the lawyer looks back,  and Callie crosses her arms more firmly right before the lawyer goes there. 

I agree that AZ had to at least try going to court to keep Sofia,  especially after the way Callie took Sofia and ran off to MerDer's dream house after AZ cheated,  and would not let AZ see her until Christina made Callie see reason.  Not sure I would trust Callie not to run again. 

I just rewatched Sofia's birth and the next episode,  and the 12 week old sofia looks so much like the new actress playing her,  it's amazing. 

Also,  a ways back,  someone asked about which kid was around first,  sofia or Zola. From those episodes,  Sofia was born,  and about 12 weeks later,  alex started bringing the kids from Africa for surgeries (and I'm pretty sure Zola was one of those kids (maybe not the first ones,  but eventually)). Zola was probably older than 12 weeks, though. 

Whew.

[evethegreat]

Ugh, the acting was good, but I'll be perfectly honest... I hate Arizona and always have pretty much. I tolerated her until the way she behaved with Callie after the accident and after she slept with that other woman. I've tried to enjoy her friendship with Richard because it's the type of story line I usually like, but I just couldn't get into it all the way. I see nothing good about her, and it's hard for me to be happy when she gets what she wants. I don't love Callie either and I understand completely why it wouldn't be fair for her to take their daughter, but I just wish this story line never happened.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I hated the direction. It was way too "ooh, look, I'm being artsy." Hated the overhead shots, etc. 

[TheresaW1934]

The JudgesOpening/ Closing Dialog:

Thought this might help given some of the comments.  First, it's important to note that Arizona did legally adopt Sofia, meaning both Callie and Arizona are her legal parents.  Now the dialog.

"We're here today to determine a custody modification between 2 divorced parents, Arizona  Robbins and Calliope Torres.

The trials witness pool is unusual in that it will be shared by both parents.

The parties have stipulated to call each witness once at which time each side will have a chance to examine that witness.

You're testifying.  Remember this is not a popularity contest.  You are not choosing sides.

We're all on the same side.  The side of a 6 year old child.  

Dr. Torres, Dr. Robbins, custody hearings are without exception very difficult on all parties involved, your daughter included.

Things said here will undoubtedly be harsh and cannot be unsaid.  

I ask this of parents before I begin any custody hearing.  Are you both sure you want to proceed?

Then this court is now in session to determine sole physical custody of Sofia Robin Sloan Torres."

CLOSING DIALOG:

"I've taken all testimony and evidence in this matter under submission and after careful consideration my ruling is as follows:

I hereby grant sole physical custody of Sofia Robin Sloan Torres ...

sentence not finished, fades out of courthouse."

 

Hope this informs the discussions.

[pennben]

Okay, I just rewatched parts of the episode this morning....I had forgotten, in my outrage over this mess, the moment when Meredith was testifying about moms helping each other out, she said something about the kids to the effect of "we make sure they get from place to place with all their limbs intact".  I just remember at the time I first watched thinking 'oh no, oh no no no no no no no', don't go there.  Ultimately it turned out to be nothing about Arizona and her lost leg, but whew, I had a bad feeling for a bit there.  This time when I watched, I just giggled a bit, as I'm sure they didn't really think it all the way through about a throwaway line.

[Joana]

7 hours ago, craziness said:

I agree that AZ had to at least try going to court to keep Sofia,  especially after the way Callie took Sofia and ran off to MerDer's dream house after AZ cheated,  and would not let AZ see her until Christina made Callie see reason.  Not sure I would trust Callie not to run again. 

I think it was Meredith who told Arizona where Sofia was, I even remember her saying "She's her child, too". Which makes it even more strange she'd unconditionally side with Callie like that.

She looked so incredibly smug talking about how it takes a village to raise a child. It was kinda sweet to watch it blow up in her face and her realizing what she had actually achieved. 

Edited May 7, 2016 by Joana

[lorbeer]

I'm not big fun of Arizona but I'm glad she's the who 'won'. Callie acts lately like she'd lost her mind and I actually "unliked" the character. And I hate Penny so so so much. Like it's the worst character ever, she's an ameba.

Arizona on the other hand was really mature and she really carred about Sofia, while Callie made it about herself and acted very low. It was really low. And Callie definitely didn't see that coming (the loss). For the child's sake I hope they'll work it out but for now it's good that Arizona is the one to make the call. And it's actually really heartbreaking since Callie is Sofia's birthmother.

And I don't understand why Alex didn't want to support Arizona on that. Perhaps he knew Mer would be on team Callie and he didn't want to endanger their reliationship ;d... And I don't remeber - did Arizona ask April? And if she did why she refused?

Edited May 7, 2016 by lorbeer

[GreysFan89]

9 hours ago, craziness said:

I would like to join Richard and AZ's trivia team.  25 wins in 26 weeks (6 months) is an amazing record.  Unless they go to trivia more than once a week..

I need a scene of them slaying at trivia night.

Quote

Because Mark being involved fucking made for lots of drama, that's why. Arizona didn't want kids; Arizona didn't like Mark. Callie, who likes to overreact, overreacted to Arizona going overseas by getting drunk and sleeping with her BFF. Arizona returns, and the three of them have to (eventually) act like adults. Callie getting knocked up with a turkey baster wouldn't be nearly as interesting to anyone, LGBT or not.

Mark knocking up Mer would have created plenty of drama too but they didn't go there. There were plenty of ways to make a gay couple getting a kid interesting and someone has mentioned just a few possibilities, there was just no need to involve Mark. 

[thewhiteowl]

It was odd to me that Callie understood that Mark would hate this but she didn't seem to have much of an idea why he would hate it. She had all the regard for moving Sofia away as if the kid was a piece of furniture or some other possession. 

Callie came across as so self centered and entitled. That's not a good look for anyone. 

[pennben]

22 minutes ago, lorbeer said:

I

And I don't understand why Alex didn't want to support Arizona on that. Perhaps he knew Mer would be on team Callie and he didn't want to endanger their reliationship ;d... And I don't remeber - did Arizona ask April? And if she did why she refused?

I thought about this a lot between last week and this week, and I would have been Alex here, no way would I get on the stand in a custody case along the lines of this one where both are good mothers and both are friends/colleagues.  And, even though I would have thought Callie had lost her mind trying to move the child across the country (and hopefully would have tried to dissuade her), my stance would have been that none of this was my business, you do you and no I'm not going to court for either of you. 

I just can't see how when both are colleagues and both are good parents you can get up and support one (potentially damning the other), and then, worst of all, you end up hurting the case of the one you support because of cross-examination....ooof.

[redfish]

Quote

And I don't understand why Alex didn't want to support Arizona on that. Perhaps he knew Mer would be on team Callie and he didn't want to endanger their reliationship ;d... And I don't remeber - did Arizona ask April? And if she did why she refused?

Alex is smart enough not to involve himself in that kind of drama knowing it will end badly for all.

Quote

I just can't see how when both are colleagues and both are good parents you can get up and support one (potentially damning the other), and then, worst of all, you end up hurting the case of the one you support because of cross-examination....ooof.

Right. I think that no matter what the court/lawyers say that the witnesses are neutral and it's not a popularity contest, any lawyer will spin the testimony (and they tried) and inadvertently make them pick a side instead of Sophia's. Also, after the testimonies it will a very awkward workplace looking at the person who helped or hindered the case or worse not picked your side. Like the judge had said, things said in court cannot be taken back and it will might make Arizona/Callie look at their co-workers at what they said/saw them as a parent/individual and take it personally.

Edited May 7, 2016 by redfish

[izabella]

1 hour ago, lorbeer said:

And I don't understand why Alex didn't want to support Arizona on that. Perhaps he knew Mer would be on team Callie and he didn't want to endanger their reliationship ;d... And I don't remeber - did Arizona ask April? And if she did why she refused?

Maybe Alex wanted to be available for tiny human surgeries, since all the other doctors would be in court and the other doctors in the hospital, apparently, all suck.

[lorbeer]

1 minute ago, izabella said:

Maybe Alex wanted to be available for tiny human surgeries, since all the other doctors would be in court and the other doctors in the hospital, apparently, all suck.

Hah, good point.

[CED9]

 And I don't remeber - did Arizona ask April? And if she did why she refused?

She was going to during April and Jackson's ultrasound last week, but then Penny being on her service and the ultrasound glitch that required more tests happened, so Arizona never got around to it. She never asked anyone, Richard was just automatically on her side.

[Joana]

47 minutes ago, pennben said:

I just can't see how when both are colleagues and both are good parents you can get up and support one (potentially damning the other), and then, worst of all, you end up hurting the case of the one you support because of cross-examination....ooof.

Which is what happened to most of them. With the exception of Owen and DeLuca, none of those testimonies went as planned. I was surprised to see Bailey testify for Callie, but I assume she only agreed because she was told she would be an expert witness and would only talk about their work without having to choose sides. Then she saw what Callie's lawyer was really up to and wasn't having any of it. Would you really pull a stunt like that on your boss?!

Edited May 7, 2016 by Joana

[RedheadZombie]

16 hours ago, GreysFan89 said:

It makes me wonder about ep 10x09(?) Really? I mean if Arizona had not had a miscarriage, does anyone think Callie would have ASSUMED she could take Sofia and the kid Arizona would have had to NY? 

I hate to even think it, but in the spirit of this new Callie - she would have left the younger child behind because it's Arizona's.

[GreysFan89]

When you think about it Callie wasn't even really fighting for Sofia. She has Sofia already no one was trying to take her away from her. Now that she can't move Sofia to NY, you would assume she would stay in Seattle to be with her daughter, otherwise she'd be picking Penny over her kid and Callie may be oblivious and rash but she isn't horrible enough to do that. So either way she would still have her daughter or least have the choice to stay with her kid. What she was fighting for was to not have to try a long distance relationship with her new girlfriend. What have they done to Callie?!

[lorbeer]

1 minute ago, GreysFan89 said:

When you think about it Callie wasn't even really fighting for Sofia. She has Sofia already no one was trying to take her away from her. Now that she can't move Sofia to NY, you would assume she would stay in Seattle to be with her daughter, otherwise she'd be picking Penny over her kid and Callie may be oblivious and rash but she isn't horrible enough to do that. So either way she would still have her daughter or least have the choice to stay with her kid. What she was fighting for was to not have to try a long distance relationship with her new girlfriend. What have they done to Callie?!

Exactly...

[CED9]

2 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

When you think about it Callie wasn't even really fighting for Sofia. She has Sofia already no one was trying to take her away from her. Now that she can't move Sofia to NY, you would assume she would stay in Seattle to be with her daughter, otherwise she'd be picking Penny over her kid and Callie may be oblivious and rash but she isn't horrible enough to do that. So either way she would still have her daughter or least have the choice to stay with her kid. What she was fighting for was to not have to try a long distance relationship with her new girlfriend. What have they done to Callie?!

The line in the scene with Meredith where Callie says she doesn't want to have to choose between a person she loves and another person she loves seemed to be intentionally vague. I'm sure most people (and Meredith) took it as choosing between Penny and Sofia, but the way I (and a few others I read) saw it was that she was talking about Penny and Arizona.

In my mind, Callie thinks not having to see Arizona every day would help her "officially" get over her, and this was the perfect out strictly for Callie's selfish reasons, nothing else.

[GreysFan89]

Just now, CED9 said:

The line in the scene with Meredith where Callie says she doesn't want to have to choose between a person she loves and another person she loves seemed to be intentionally vague. I'm sure most people (and Meredith) took it as choosing between Penny and Sofia, but the way I (and a few others I read) saw it was that she was talking about Penny and Arizona.

In my mind, Callie thinks not having to see Arizona every day would help her "officially" get over her, and this was the perfect out strictly for Callie's selfish reasons, nothing else.

You kinda have to hope she was referring to Arizona, cause if she meant Sofia, damn girl, there is no choosing between your daughter and your girlfriend.

[Black Knight]

Rewatching this episode, something else that really struck me was Sofia's reactions to her mothers. Kids are good at sensing when something is wrong, and Sofia certainly sensed that in this episode. But she had completely different reactions to her mothers.

With Callie, Sofia noted that Callie was hugging her too long and hard - I'm not going to say that was a complaint, I'm using "noted" because it's neutral, my point here is that Sofia knew from the hug that something was wrong. But she was still perfectly fine watching Callie leave, going off to play with Zola. But when Arizona was dropping her off the next day, Sofia didn't want to stay and play with Zola, she wanted to go with Arizona. She wanted to stay by Arizona's side. We were also told that Sofia woke up really early that day, which was likely because she wanted more time with Arizona. When she yelled at Arizona that she hated her, it was only because she was angry that Arizona was leaving her instead of taking her.

I'm sure Sofia loves Callie very much and that they have a good relationship. But I think the difference in her reactions here is interesting, and points to her slightly preferring Arizona. Arizona was the mother Sofia got clingy with. And I would find that understandable because Arizona is the one who considers things from Sofia's point of view. Callie seems the type of parent who views their child as an extension of themselves. Callie never brought up Sofia's point of view once in all this, and that's certainly not because she doesn't love Sofia (without question she does, fiercely), it's that she simply doesn't expect Sofia to have a different point of view than herself. It's the same flaw we've seen her exhibit with other relationships - she's always been surprised and angry whenever Arizona had a different opinion. Kids are also pretty good at sensing which parents actually see them as people with thoughts and opinions of their own and which parents just expect them to fall in line.

[Joana]

22 minutes ago, CED9 said:

The line in the scene with Meredith where Callie says she doesn't want to have to choose between a person she loves and another person she loves seemed to be intentionally vague. I'm sure most people (and Meredith) took it as choosing between Penny and Sofia, but the way I (and a few others I read) saw it was that she was talking about Penny and Arizona.

In my mind, Callie thinks not having to see Arizona every day would help her "officially" get over her, and this was the perfect out strictly for Callie's selfish reasons, nothing else.

It's an interesting prospect for sure. But somehow I don't think she was talking about Arizona there. In Callie's mind, Penny leaving without her means it's over. And she's probably right and is on some level aware of hew own neediness. Because, you just know that the second Penny got on that plane Callie would be all miserable and complaing about missing sex, they'd argue and fight and eventually she'd call it off because she again wanted to be the happy girl dancing in her underwear. 

[CED9]

2 minutes ago, Joana said:

It's an interesting prospect for sure. But somehow I don't think she was talking about Arizona there. In Callie's mind, Penny leaving without her means it's over. And she's probably right and is on some level aware of hew own neediness. Because, you just know that the second Penny got on that plane Callie would be all miserable and complaing about missing sex, they'd argue and fight and eventually she'd call it off because she again wanted to be the happy girl dancing in her underwear. 

That's what I mean by intentionally vague. If that was the case why not just say "between my girlfriend and my daughter?"

[GreysFan89]

3 minutes ago, CED9 said:

That's what I mean by intentionally vague. If that was the case why not just say "between my girlfriend and my daughter?"

It could just be because when you say it like that it sounds absurd, that's not a decision, it's your daughter that's who you pick every time without even needing to think about it.

[GreysFan89]

26 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

Rewatching this episode, something else that really struck me was Sofia's reactions to her mothers. Kids are good at sensing when something is wrong, and Sofia certainly sensed that in this episode. But she had completely different reactions to her mothers.

With Callie, Sofia noted that Callie was hugging her too long and hard - I'm not going to say that was a complaint, I'm using "noted" because it's neutral, my point here is that Sofia knew from the hug that something was wrong. But she was still perfectly fine watching Callie leave, going off to play with Zola. But when Arizona was dropping her off the next day, Sofia didn't want to stay and play with Zola, she wanted to go with Arizona. She wanted to stay by Arizona's side. We were also told that Sofia woke up really early that day, which was likely because she wanted more time with Arizona. When she yelled at Arizona that she hated her, it was only because she was angry that Arizona was leaving her instead of taking her.

I'm sure Sofia loves Callie very much and that they have a good relationship. But I think the difference in her reactions here is interesting, and points to her slightly preferring Arizona. Arizona was the mother Sofia got clingy with. And I would find that understandable because Arizona is the one who considers things from Sofia's point of view. Callie seems the type of parent who views their child as an extension of themselves. Callie never brought up Sofia's point of view once in all this, and that's certainly not because she doesn't love Sofia (without question she does, fiercely), it's that she simply doesn't expect Sofia to have a different point of view than herself. It's the same flaw we've seen her exhibit with other relationships - she's always been surprised and angry whenever Arizona had a different opinion. Kids are also pretty good at sensing which parents actually see them as people with thoughts and opinions of their own and which parents just expect them to fall in line.

I noticed that too and thought it was interesting that they made a point of showing that.

Just as a side note, the little girl who plays Sofia now is so freaking adorable! She was on Twitter yesterday - well probably her mom - asking for a link to one of her scenes, that is just too damn cute. lol

[CED9]

17 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

It could just be because when you say it like that it sounds absurd, that's not a decision, it's your daughter that's who you pick every time without even needing to think about it.

I agree. I just look at it like this: the writers really write for the general audience, not people like us who tend to overanalyze things to within an inch of their life, and to the general audience, things we see coming a mile away are "twists." I could see them using that as a twist.

 I'm sure Sofia loves Callie very much and that they have a good relationship. But I think the difference in her reactions here is interesting, and points to her slightly preferring Arizona. Arizona was the mother Sofia got clingy with. And I would find that understandable because Arizona is the one who considers things from Sofia's point of view.

One thing that has always been consistent about Arizona's character is that she understands and relates to kids way more than adults.

Edited May 7, 2016 by CED9

[GreysFan89]

1 minute ago, CED9 said:

I agree. I just look at it like this: the writers really write for the general audience, not people like us who tend to overanalyze things to within an inch of their life, and to the general audience, things we see coming a mile away are "twists." I could see them using that as a twist.

Yeah, you could be right. I think it all depends on whether or not SaRa has signed a new contract or not. If she has then she meant Arizona and the point in all of this is for Callie to admit that's she still in love with Arizona and if she hasn't they meant Sofia and they are assassinating her character for her to follow Penny. 

[candall]

2 hours ago, redfish said:

Like the judge had said, things said in court cannot be taken back and it will might make Arizona/Callie look at their co-workers at what they said/saw them as a parent/individual and take it personally.

Oh, how could they not?? 

I had eyebrows up that Meredith and Arizona could even smile and be civil to each other at the front door instead of projecting accusations with their eyes over the top of Sophia's head.

I would think the whole core group (except Alex, bless him) would be split into rival gangs of bitter kittens.  Too late now to go back and claim neutrality.  With some good writing, that would be a more devastating disaster than a flying saucer crashing into the lobby or whatever calamity they have planned next.

[funnygirl]

1 hour ago, GreysFan89 said:

You kinda have to hope she was referring to Arizona, cause if she meant Sofia, damn girl, there is no choosing between your daughter and your girlfriend.

This exactly. 

[Black Knight]

I just really can't see this being Callie's plan (even subconsciously) to move to NYC so she can get over Arizona once and for all. Yes, the wording was a little bit weird, but I think it was more what GreysFan89 said, because if Callie says "girlfriend" and "daughter" it really makes it sound even more stupid than it already is. Callie trashed Arizona so thoroughly in court, just for having the gall to be inconvenient and get in the way of Callie's perceived perfect happy ending in NYC with Penny and Sofia, that I can't believe she has any really deep feelings of love left for her. And Arizona will never be able to forgive and forget the way Callie portrayed her in court, not in the way that would be necessary to consider taking Callie back, so a storyline where Callie genuinely wants Arizona back would be pointless. Arizona would never go for it.

None of Callie's witnesses said anything about Arizona, so in that respect I do think it would be easy for Arizona, at least, to move on. Meredith and Owen didn't criticize Arizona, and Bailey ended up switching because she was so appalled. Callie, who tends to blame anyone but herself, yeah, I can see her holding a grudge against everyone, even her own witnesses.

I didn't think Meredith handled the situation at the door that civilly - I appreciated that she at least managed a pleasant enough "good night" and wave, but that super-sad look she shot Arizona as Sofia hugged her got on my nerves, like it's a horrendous tragedy that Arizona got custody. I understand that she was backing Callie, but Arizona's a good mother too - it's not like Sofia landed in some awful home where she'll be abused and unloved. One thing I really wonder is what Meredith's reaction would have been had she been present for the slut-shaming/adoptive-is-not-as-good-as-biological portions of the trial. I wasn't surprised that she chose to side with Callie originally, but as an adoptive parent herself and as someone who also enjoys an active social life, she would've had real problems with those tactics, just like Bailey hated the "Arizona chooses work over her child!" tactic.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Black Knight

[Catznip]

3 hours ago, GreysFan89 said:

You kinda have to hope she was referring to Arizona, cause if she meant Sofia, damn girl, there is no choosing between your daughter and your girlfriend.

Exactly...I thought she said, the person I loved and the person I love, meaning Arizona and Penny.  Otherwise it's obsured for Callie to make that statement regarding her daughter and some 'tail'.

[CED9]

The issue with Callie and Arizona is that they both operate on assumption rather than truth. Arizona assumed Callie amputated her leg and resented her for it, and Callie let her until Alex told the truth. 

Callie assumed Arizona was "trapped" into a life with a kid she didn't want, and that Arizona putting work ahead of Sofia was "proof" in that Callie believes you can't be passionate at both, and taking Callie to court and fighting was Arizona's proof that she can have both and be successful at it and most importantly want to have both. Now Callie knows that truth. 

They broke up to be "free" of each other, yet now they're stuck together in a situation that neither wants.

Edited May 7, 2016 by CED9

[Catznip]

5 minutes ago, CED9 said:

 Now Callie knows that truth. 

And now they're both stuck in a situation that neither wants.

Interesting point... Let's see if Callie brings that truth in the dialog between them in the next episode. I have a feeling she's going to confess deep feelings for Arizona while Penny intends to propose to her. 

[GreysFan89]

I actually don't like that they felt they need to bring up who Arizona thought did the amputation, cause to me Arizona was never mad at Callie because she thought she physically cut off her leg but because she was the one who made the decision to amputate. Who actually did the cutting was completely not the point.

[Chicken Wing]

5 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

I actually don't like that they felt they need to bring up who Arizona thought did the amputation, cause to me Arizona was never mad at Callie because she thought she physically cut off her leg but because she was the one who made the decision to amputate. Who actually did the cutting was completely not the point.

That's why it shocked me when it was revealed that Arizona thought Callie did the actual amputation all along, because her anger made just as much sense for Callie having simply been the one to make the call to amputate.

[GreysFan89]

1 minute ago, Chicken Wing said:

That's why it shocked me when it was revealed that Arizona thought Callie did the actual amputation all along, because her anger made just as much sense for Callie having simply been the one to make the call to amputate.

They took the lazy and embarrassingly simplistic way to finish an emotional and complicated storyline.   

[CED9]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

That's why it shocked me when it was revealed that Arizona thought Callie did the actual amputation all along, because her anger made just as much sense for Callie having simply been the one to make the call to amputate.

Arizona was the only one who's never put Callie down in the sense of thinking Ortho is less important of a specialty than others. She believed Callie would fix her because of it, and when she couldn't, Arizona resented feeling like a science experiment that needed fixed after the fact. 

[Catznip]

10 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

I actually don't like that they felt they need to bring up who Arizona thought did the amputation, cause to me Arizona was never mad at Callie because she thought she physically cut off her leg but because she was the one who made the decision to amputate. Who actually did the cutting was completely not the point.

GreysFan, was that in the 12x22 or a different episode?  I have to admit, I'm a recent watcher of Greys. Didn't watch earlier seasons when they aired although I followed the Calzona storyline through YouTube. Now I'm spending the weekends watching Greys via Netfix. I must say I enjoy the earlier seasons especially Christina's snarl. 

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

GreysFan, was that in the 12x22 or a different episode?

I believe it was last season.

[GreysFan89]

1 minute ago, Catznip said:

GreysFan, was that in the 12x22 or a different episode?  I have to admit, I'm a recent watcher of Greys. Didn't watch earlier seasons when they aired although I followed the Calzona storyline through YouTube. Now I'm spending the weekends watching Greys via Netfix. I must say I enjoy the earlier seasons especially Christina's snarl. 

If you are talking about when Arizona found out who cut off her leg, I think it was last season.

[photo fox]

6 hours ago, Black Knight said:

One thing I really wonder is what Meredith's reaction would have been had she been present for the slut-shaming/adoptive-is-not-as-good-as-biological portions of the trial.

I thought that was such a cop-out, when they had her leave, even though the other witnesses stuck around. There's no way Meredith wouldn't be insulted by that, so she conveniently didn't hear it, so she can still be Team Callie. (And knowing Mere, she'll treat Arizona like crap for the next year, just because Callie says so. Maybe Arizona and Riggs can start a club.)

[GreysFan89]

4 hours ago, Catznip said:

GreysFan, was that in the 12x22 or a different episode?  I have to admit, I'm a recent watcher of Greys. Didn't watch earlier seasons when they aired although I followed the Calzona storyline through YouTube. Now I'm spending the weekends watching Greys via Netfix. I must say I enjoy the earlier seasons especially Christina's snarl. 

If you are looking for the ep it was 11x20. :)

[Joana]

It's almost hilarious that Callie and her lawyer would choose a strategy that insults their own witnesses - Bailey who got divorced because her husband thought she worked too much and neglected her family, and Meredith who is also an adoptive mother, i.e. some woman who just happened to come around. 

I wonder if that's actually intentional and Callie is going to have an epiphany of a sort and realize her oblivion and selfishness could have hurt a whole lot of people, and thus would have to eat some major instead of acting like the eternally wronged and hard done by one. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by Joana

[GreysFan89]

Man, there is going to be a lot of tension going about in that hospital. It's starting to get difficult to keep track of who hates who. lol

[CED9]

I saw a good point, I believe it was on tumblr, so I can't take credit for it, but all season Penny's main function has been to cause tension between people (mainly Callie and Meredith and then Meredith and Amelia) but she wasn't the reason they fixed their relationships, they did that on their own. 

Callie and Arizona were having a conversation on the bench and then Penny shows up and it's like all the air is sucked out and it's never finished. Will be interesting to see these last 2 episodes and if conversations happen.

[kingshearte]

8 hours ago, Black Knight said:

Rewatching this episode, something else that really struck me was Sofia's reactions to her mothers. Kids are good at sensing when something is wrong, and Sofia certainly sensed that in this episode. But she had completely different reactions to her mothers.

With Callie, Sofia noted that Callie was hugging her too long and hard - I'm not going to say that was a complaint, I'm using "noted" because it's neutral, my point here is that Sofia knew from the hug that something was wrong. But she was still perfectly fine watching Callie leave, going off to play with Zola. But when Arizona was dropping her off the next day, Sofia didn't want to stay and play with Zola, she wanted to go with Arizona. She wanted to stay by Arizona's side. We were also told that Sofia woke up really early that day, which was likely because she wanted more time with Arizona. When she yelled at Arizona that she hated her, it was only because she was angry that Arizona was leaving her instead of taking her.

I'm sure Sofia loves Callie very much and that they have a good relationship. But I think the difference in her reactions here is interesting, and points to her slightly preferring Arizona. Arizona was the mother Sofia got clingy with. And I would find that understandable because Arizona is the one who considers things from Sofia's point of view. Callie seems the type of parent who views their child as an extension of themselves. Callie never brought up Sofia's point of view once in all this, and that's certainly not because she doesn't love Sofia (without question she does, fiercely), it's that she simply doesn't expect Sofia to have a different point of view than herself. It's the same flaw we've seen her exhibit with other relationships - she's always been surprised and angry whenever Arizona had a different opinion. Kids are also pretty good at sensing which parents actually see them as people with thoughts and opinions of their own and which parents just expect them to fall in line.

If all that is deliberate, that's some impressively nuanced writing for this show these days. But it makes a lot of sense.

I've never had especially strong feelings for either Arizona or Callie, but I think I've often been slightly more sympathetic to Arizona than Callie, and this season, culminating with this custody battle, has really just cemented that. I even totally thought, right from the beginning, when whoever it was said that this whole moving across the country thing was just part of Callie's nature, that Arizona's lawyer would go after that and make Callie look like an impulsive flake. That she didn't was, I suppose, the first clue that the two sides were approaching this very differently. Which, of course, was an immediate indication of which way things were going to go. The way Callie chose to let her lawyer go about the whole thing really was gross, and kind of points to the fact that she didn't think she could win without making implications that were so ridiculous that they bordered on lies (although that itself doesn't really jive with the way she simultaneously seemed to treat the whole thing like a foregone conclusion, but whatevs). I too am glad that Arizona called her on it.

[Joana]

29 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

The way Callie chose to let her lawyer go about the whole thing really was gross, and kind of points to the fact that she didn't think she could win without making implications that were so ridiculous that they bordered on lies (although that itself doesn't really jive with the way she simultaneously seemed to treat the whole thing like a foregone conclusion, but whatevs). 

This is exactly what was so confusing about this storyline since the beginning. All this time the show made it seem like Arizona is the one facing an uphill climb and is likely to lose the custody, while in reality the odds would be against Callie. And her lawyer must have been aware of that and she probably pointed out that there's a solid chance they're going to lose the case unless Arizona's fitness as a mother was brought into question. That also must be why she made such a big deal about Penny's mistake - in those circumstances they couldn't afford a single wrong move. 

It was probably played out in such haphazard manner because the writers wanted to keep the viewers in suspense about the outcome and have a "shocking twist" in the end. I believe it's also why we were in the dark about Arizona's legal standing regarding Sofia until very late in this episode or why we didn't really see who sued and for what.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Joana