S01.E10: Fun Ways to Tell Boyfriend You're Pregnant

[truthaboutluv]

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 I guess I sympathize with him, it seems like he was expected to just suck it up and handle it, and he couldn't.  

I wasn't expecting Danny to just suck it up and as I said, I understand that yeah, it had to have sucked to have two parents locked in their own grief. But it wasn't that he was just upset and sad about, he was also a huge freaking brat. Fine, yell and confront your parents privately but to basically piss all over a public memorial for your dead brother? There was no excuse for that, IMO. He just came across as incredibly shitty, rude and entitled. 

 

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He was clearly traumatized by his brother being gone,

Was he, because I haven't gotten that impression, which is exactly what I was referring to above when I noted that it would help if in the flashbacks we ever saw him truly torn about Adam. But we haven't. As I said, yes, Willa became a nutty control freak trying to control and fix everything, but we saw that she really thought Hank was guilty because she'd seen Adam with Hank before he disappeared. She also looked concerned and bothered when she saw that. She was also the one frantically searching for him before telling their parents when she couldn't find him. All we've seen of Danny is him being a drunk as an adult and an angry, pissy little shit as a teenager. Even when Ben first showed up - while I accepted someone had to be skeptical, I thought it was really shitty how his attitude right from the start was somewhat cold and then to say to Ben/Adam, "why didn't you ever run?"

Edited May 4, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[backformore]

I'm not disagreeing with what you say we've seen, just trying to explain it.  Teenage boys get depressed and show it in different ways than girls or adults.  Because of increased testosterone and societal expectations, when teenage boys get depressed, they become angry, aggressive, and turn to drugs or alcohol.  It doesn't make them assholes, it's just what happens.  It's the flip side of depression.  The tree ceremony?  His attitude was that it was stupid.  And he was right.  What does a tree actually DO besides make people feel better by thinking they're helping?  And it wasn't working for him. He was pissed because it wasn't about Adam, it was a photo op for his mom.  He didn't want to be there, it was forced on him, and he was expected to swallow his feelings and give a nice speech. Saying what he really thought doesn't make him an asshole.

People are different.Willa expressed grief by being controlling, Danny expressed his grief by being pissy and drunk.  From what we've seen so far, Danny only really hurt himself.  But Willa helped to frame Hank, then hatched the scheme for Ben to fake being Adam, leaked her dad's affair, all while putting on the good daughter act.  She's the real asshole, not Danny.  

Edited May 4, 2016 by backformore

[Madding crowd]

Danny didn't understand that the tree gesture was about Claire's career and not really about his brother. To me his sadness and grief seemed very real. Not only did he lose his brother, he lost his parents too. His parents didn't care enough to attend his winning football game or to provide dinner. To him, nothing was going to bring his brother back and maybe nothing would bring his parents back either. I don't see a grieving brother as an asshole any more than I see a controlling sister, mother who doesn't take care of her other kids, or father who drinks and has affairs an asshole.

[Guest]

I also balked a bit at teen Danny's behavior.  I understand he was hurt but c'mon, it'd only been a couple months and it's not like he's a third grader.  He can make his own dinner or order out, and it was a football game, not graduation.  

We also thought it was kind of rude how he looked to his mother to fill the frig, when there's dad standing right there.  And Danny must've been of driving age, if he had that car back when Adam was around, to be photographed with it.  

I believed Hank that Claire and John weren't exactly doting parents when Adam was alive.  

[jhlipton]

14 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I'm sorry, I get that having a grieving mother who was just sleeping her days away and a drunk, cheating father sucked, but teenage Danny was an asshole. And frankly, when he told Claire that she had two other children when she reminded him her child died, I wanted her to say, "one of them is you, big whoop..."

 

10 hours ago, backformore said:

Yeah, but he was a teenager, and teenagers often act like assholes - and then grow out of it.   I assume he was resentful at having to keep an eye on his brother, felt guilty about losing track of him, and his parents pretty much neglected his emotional well-being.

 

41 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I also balked a bit at teen Danny's behavior.  I understand he was hurt but c'mon, it'd only been a couple months and it's not like he's a third grader.  He can make his own dinner or order out, and it was a football game, not graduation. 

I got a bit of a feeling that Danny had been a bit neglected before Adam's disappearance; and after, his parents acted like he wasn't even there.  A State Championship is pretty huge (that's where some scholarships come from) and they didn't even comment.  Instead of them showing up in his life, he's forced to show up in theirs. I'd be snotty and pissed if my parents treated me like that.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

 

 

I got a bit of a feeling that Danny had been a bit neglected before Adam's disappearance; and after, his parents acted like he wasn't even there.  A State Championship is pretty huge (that's where some scholarships come from) and they didn't even comment.  Instead of them showing up in his life, he's forced to show up in theirs. I'd be snotty and pissed if my parents treated me like that.

Was it a state championship?  I missed that.  I agree that John and Claire are presented as never having been the Cleavers.  They seem driven by their own self-interest, mainly.  

What was John's job before becoming a writer/speaker about grief?  Did they ever say?

[kitlee625]

22 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Didn't they say he was in shock when he escaped? He might not remember, and the bunker was in the middle of the woods. I think they knew where he'd first gotten to civilization, but I don't think he was capable of saying more than that at the time. Since then he's become more normal with talking about what happened.

Also we have no idea how long it took him to get out of the woods. He was probably wandering for hours before he found a main road, and with all those trees, it's not a surprise to me that he couldn't lead the police right back to the bunker.

[juniemoon]

I apologize if someone else has already mentioned this in previous episode threads, but I've been struck by the physical resemblance between Doug and Ben. They look like brothers. I thought the show was trying especially hard to show this by having them sit side by side on the bench this episode. So I keep wondering how it all shakes out if Ben is, in fact, Doug's brother or son.

[Guest]

I think that possibility went out the window with us having seen Doug holding Ben against his will in that dungeon.  I did wonder if it was some con they're running on the Warrens before we saw that Ben was definitely an abused captive, though.  I think ABC is out on a limb enough with this story without it being a relative doing the imprisoning and molesting.  But I think they probably did style those two the same just so we would wonder if they were working together earlier on. 

[DebbieM4]

5 hours ago, juniemoon said:

I apologize if someone else has already mentioned this in previous episode threads, but I've been struck by the physical resemblance between Doug and Ben. They look like brothers. I thought the show was trying especially hard to show this by having them sit side by side on the bench this episode. So I keep wondering how it all shakes out if Ben is, in fact, Doug's brother or son.

Way back, I thought - as others here did - that maybe Ben was Doug's son.  Then I kind of got away from that.  However, I did notice in this episode exactly what you're saying.  There was one shot in particular where it seemed very obvious, as though that was the point being made.  So now I don't know what to think.  Obviously, they're doing all kinds of things, twisting and turning, to keep us guessing.  So maybe that's all it was, but it really stood out to me and seemed deliberate.  Ben may not be Doug's son (and I hope he isn't), but they may be related in another way.  I just think it meant something.

[txhorns79]

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I got a bit of a feeling that Danny had been a bit neglected before Adam's disappearance; and after, his parents acted like he wasn't even there.  A State Championship is pretty huge (that's where some scholarships come from) and they didn't even comment.  Instead of them showing up in his life, he's forced to show up in theirs. I'd be snotty and pissed if my parents treated me like that.

It's hard to tell.  We haven't really been given a great picture of what they actually were like prior to the kidnapping.  I would say while I understand Danny's feelings and he is entirely entitled to them, I also understand that losing your child, particularly in tragic, uncertain circumstances, would be devastating to the point where you essentially become a zombie.  It's essentially a situation where no one is really at fault.  Claire and John are not the parents their kids need, but they have a legitimate reason to be checked out.  

This show has grown on me.  I find Willa to be so interesting.  I didn't like Alison Pill on The Newsroom, but I think she's very good here.  She really telegraphs just how damaged the character is, and the realization that she's likely going to destroy her family beyond anything that happened with Adam once her lie is found out.      

[Suzywriter]

On 5/4/2016 at 9:04 AM, Winston9-DT3 said:

  I missed that.  I agree that John and Claire are presented as never having been the Cleavers.  They seem driven by their own self-interest, mainly.  

I totally get Danny's grief. I had a similar experience as a young person when grief caused my parents to just stop participating in life.  I too got really angry because my parents expected me to figure out my own meals and pretty much look after myself while they figured out their sadness. I got that they were really sad, but they seemed to forget that I was still a kid, and even if a parent had just  sat in their robe, chain smoked and talked me through how to make Rice-A-Roni, it would have felt like they at least cared if I had food.

Claire's irritated banging of pots and asking Danny what he wanted her to cook was brilliantly acted, and painful. It showed the audience very clearly that even if Claire prepared her son a meal, it was done grudgingly. She treated her remaining son as though he was being obnoxious because he needed his parents to still value him.

When Danny brought home friends to celebrate his game win, Claire took that support away by sending his friends home early and then creeping back up to bed, leaving her son lonely, disappointed and ignored. Everything Danny asked of his parents or tried to do on his own was refused or thwarted. No wonder he was so rageful!

[Suzywriter]

On 5/2/2016 at 5:33 PM, BonnieD said:

I'm so sick of TV depictions of giving birth that end with the delivery of the baby. Jane had to cut the cord, deliver the placenta and clean herself up, which obviously they aren't going to show all of, but still having her sit there and chat after what she'd been through. No freakin' way. 

Not to be smug, but my family gives birth exactly that way, at home, unassisted. The mother handles the delivery, placenta, cord, etc. It is unusual, but it can and does happen, even in the U.S. I have seen it with my own eyes.

[beaker73]

Every time I look at Jane I think the actress looks just like Laurie Metcalf.  I finally IMDb'd her and--voila! She's her daughter.  

[txhorns79]

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Not to be smug, but my family gives birth exactly that way, at home, unassisted. The mother handles the delivery, placenta, cord, etc. It is unusual, but it can and does happen, even in the U.S. I have seen it with my own eyes.

If you've seen the process with your own eyes, wouldn't that mean that the person actually did have assistance present (or at least someone there to observe and assist as needed) when they gave birth? 
 

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Claire's irritated banging of pots and asking Danny what he wanted her to cook was brilliantly acted, and painful. It showed the audience very clearly that even if Claire prepared her son a meal, it was done grudgingly. She treated her remaining son as though he was being obnoxious because he needed his parents to still value him.

 

I completely agree.  Claire and John totally checked out, and were awful parents to their remaining children.  It's interesting with John and Claire.  John helped set up their neighbor to take the blame for kidnapping and killing Adam, essentially deceiving Claire about what had happened for the next decade.  Now Claire has unknowingly paid back John by going along with the lie that Adam has returned.   

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Suzywriter said:

When Danny brought home friends to celebrate his game win, Claire took that support away by sending his friends home early and then creeping back up to bed, leaving her son lonely, disappointed and ignored. Everything Danny asked of his parents or tried to do on his own was refused or thwarted. No wonder he was so rageful!

What I saw was the boys playing loud music, speaking about dick size and tossing a football in the kitchen.  Even if I wasn't grieving, I would ask them to go elsewhere, at least outside or to a more remote part of the house, if I wasn't in the mood.  She didn't force Danny to remain home alone, he could've gone elsewhere with his friends.  She just wanted some respect for her own grief.

[truthaboutluv]

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What I saw was the boys playing loud music, speaking about dick size and tossing a football in the kitchen.

Not to mention laughing along when Danny sat there and rudely responded to his mother. If I were Claire I would have backhanded those rude little shits out of my house, along with backhanding Danny for his rudeness. 

[LisaM]

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Every time I look at Jane I think the actress looks just like Laurie Metcalf.  I finally IMDb'd her and--voila! She's her daughter.  

Seriously? Wow....

I'm waiting for Willa to go batshit crazy when everything is finally revealed. 

Don't know why they cast Matt Saracen if he doesn't have a larger part in the show? Perhaps he is the one who figures out the truth?

[izabella]

I'm fully expecting Willa's head to explode every time I watch this show.

Has Matt Saracen been getting much work since FNL?  Maybe he hasn't so he needs the job, and was happy to get a part in any network show?

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, izabella said:

Has Matt Saracen been getting much work since FNL?  Maybe he hasn't so he needs the job, and was happy to get a part in any network show?

Not really. He was in Off the Map and The Mob Doctor, which were both canceled after 1 season.

[Guest]

Off The Map was another Jenna Bans show.  I liked it.  

Jane does sound like Andy's mom on Toy Story, a Laurie Metcalf role.  I would never have put that together, though!  

[bref]

Nice catch, Beaker! And get this, JEFF PERRY IS HER DAD. Zoe really does look like her mom. Mind blown!

[candall]

On ‎5‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 0:26 AM, Suzywriter said:

Not to be smug, but my family gives birth exactly that way, at home, unassisted. The mother handles the delivery, placenta, cord, etc. It is unusual, but it can and does happen, even in the U.S. I have seen it with my own eyes.

Okay, well, that's the most interesting thing to come my way from this show.  Wow!

***************

Seen it a zillion times and I was still devastated when those two bunker doors were in different places.  I'm stressing out over Agent FBI--fever, chills, infection and a probable skull fracture.  My head throbs when he's on screen.  "Lean over and drink from the straw"??  OW OW OW.

This was one of the weaker episodes, to me.  I'm having a little trouble accepting Willa as a polished liar/strategic mastermind when belligerence and suspicion are written all over her face every time she looks at Ben.  She has a big neon-flashing hate bubble over her head.  Can't this kid ever have five minutes of peace?  Not liking Willa too much these days.

 

Not exactly a spoiler, but there's a delicious little tease in the programming guide description for the finale, week after next.

Spoiler

An unexpected phone call changes everything.

My fingers are crossed for Season Two.

Edited May 7, 2016 by candall

[theatremouse]

On 5/2/2016 at 7:27 PM, Major Bigtime said:

Hank thinks that when Pocky came to fix the cabinets and drawers, that's when he first spotted Adam, then sees him again at the rally with his birdhouses. Which is where Adam disappeared. It's not proof of anything, barely circumstantial, yet Hank is hellbent on the cop heralding him a hero.

They didn't show Hank getting into it, but I think the point was Doug A: was there to have scoped out Adam to begin with, and pedophile to pedophile Hank's basically vouching that he remembers and recognized the look and B: not only was Doug at the rally but the flashback showed Hank recalling the booth next door saying Doug was not there for a while, establishing opportunity. That alone is barely anything but still worth having a second look at Doug. Then we see Nina rewatching the video in which he says he was at his booth pretty much the whole time, and yes it's still all circumstantial but suddenly much more suspicious as well.

On 5/2/2016 at 9:13 PM, bref said:

I've probably forgotten a prior scene, but how did Nina know Adam is not Adam? 

The lefthandedness she observed on the bus, his slip "we" in the therapy video and the discussion of "imaginary" friend and the fighting fish, other things in Ben's behaviour made her believe there were at least two in the bunker. HOWEVER the lefthanded thing being a big kicker really annoyed me because had it still been ambiguous here if he were really Adam, the one thing they could easily get me to believe is a formerly right-handed kid might now be lefty. I've known many people whose teachers forced them to write right-handed as small children and now they do. He was in a bunker for 10 years. Maybe his right was the one regularly shackled or otherwise impinged. Plenty of reasons he could've adapted in that time to doing things lefty in the bunker due to the way he was locked up. I guess, I don't mind it as a detail adding to suspicion but I would've preferred it used either in a more ambiguous situation or as a smaller detail among a longer, clearer list of causes for suspicion. As it played, the hand seemed to be the biggest indicator compared to the others.

On 5/2/2016 at 10:45 PM, Bobbin said:

Ironic that Doug would walk into the police station, point to his wanted poster and say, "That's  me," the same as Adam/Ben did at the beginning. Supposedly he has nothing fear, as there is no physical evidence linking him to either boy.

I don't think it was ironic. I think it was intentional. I assumed that part of what Doug and Ben discussed that time he insisted they "chat" was how it went down when he showed up, specifically so that when Doug went in, knowing Nina had basically diddly squat on him, he could taunt her with it. He was basically gloating, telling her yep it's him even though she couldn't do fuck all about it.

On 5/2/2016 at 8:09 AM, designing1 said:

Maybe I missed something -- this show is pretty dull to me, and I zone out a lot -- but did Bridey flip open that laptop to find it not protected by a password? Or was there a password and she knew/guessed it? Because it makes no sense that someone running a political campaign (or anyone, really) would allow such easy access to their computer.

There were a couple of cuts there, so my headcanon is that before she put in the thumbdrive to which she copied whatever stuff she grabbed, possibly she also had a thumb drive with a password cracker on it and it cycled through and Willa just didn't have something especially complex so it broke it right away; and it's just in the editing for time they made it seem like it was Open Laptop, Copy File, The End, no login or anything. This bothered me more from a Willa-political-mastermind perspective than anything else. Yes there are still some people who don't bother locking their laptops. But for Willa to be as a good a fixer as it's implied she is, she should not have incriminating shit about Ben on a laptop she would bring with her to a reporter's home and the machine, if not the files themselves, should be locked up tight.

Edited May 17, 2016 by theatremouse