S04.E15: When There's A Fire In Your Heart

[vibeology]

Autumn can stir the pot and screw with the band but thanks to contracts they are a group and she either keeps them both or send them both packing. I assume she'll keep them around as long as Gunnar is game for some sexytimes and if he says no, will send them packing at the next staff meeting.

 

I'm hoping since Rayna is still eager to go on the road and Luke is taking Layla with him, she'll return the favour and take Will out with her. I feel like Rayna's fans would be more likely to be cool with Will than the bro country scene Luke plays to. Also, even though I don't think he's a needed character, I really like Luke now. The way he stood up for Will with the one business asshole was great stuff.

 

I've always been a weird fan of Layla. I do think she's making dumb choices right now, but I also think she's still dealing with her grief and can be forgiving of her bad choices as a result. She's latched onto Avery because she doesn't really have anyone in her life. Her family is MIA, Jeff is gone, Will is around sometimes, but certainly not a close friend. Glenn is trying to get things done for her, but she's not seeing results and that can be very frustrating and demoralizing. Despite being their age, Layla never really was integrated into the younger group so she's pretty alone in Nashville. I can't blame someone feeling that alone for reaching out and trying to make a connection. Until she does something actively mean/sabotage-y to Juliette, I can be understanding of her pain.

 

Loved everything with Juliette and Glenn. I kind of wish Emily had been there at the end too so we could see the whole family back together, but I guess someone had to watch Cadence.

 

As for the Maddie stuff, it's just a mess. Maddie was wrong to lie to Deacon, wrong to perform at a bar meant for adults and wrong to perform without her parent's permission seeing as she knows that's a rule. Deacon was wrong to get quite so physical with Mr. McGrabberson - he probably could have put an end to that in a less violent way. That guy probably would have stopped if Deacon had just put his body between Maddie and the grabber. Daphne was wrong for blackmailing her sister. (Though in the grand scheme she's the least wrong of the bunch.) Mr. McGrabberson was obviously disgusting and wrong for grabbing at any performer like that regardless of age.

 

And Cash, Cash makes Layla and Juliette on their worst days look like pillars of reason. She intentionally dropped that info about sneaking out to perform to entice Maddie. Anyone who has spent a hot second around a teenager knows that exactly how to pass that info along and "Incept" that idea in her mind. The fact that she could line something up for that very night tells me she already had this plan in motion. Then at the bar, she leaves Maddie alone to be hit on by a guy; he turned out to be polite and totally reasonable but who knows. Then when Maddie's performing and the guy is touching her, Cash just keeps on recording the performance, instead of getting someone on staff to put an end to it; something she should have done seeing as she's tight with the management and was basically acting as Maddie's manager that day. Finally, the crazy rant at Deacon was so beyond okay. It'd be one thing if Maddie was yelling at her Dad that way, but the overinvestment in Maddie on Cash's part is just crazy. "I will never leave her" and some of the other stuff she said, yikes.

[Artsda]

 

It's a shame Teddy couldn't have taken the flawless values and discipline he alone bestowed upon the girls and applied it to his own life. Then maybe he could be their sole parent and they could flourish instead of being in prison for embezzlement, extortion, corruption, and paying high end escorts for sex.

 

It would have been better for the kids if Teddy hadn't taken the high road for his girls and Rayna. He should have let Hiway 65 go down, let Rayna and Tandy go down. 

 

Rayna being a sucess with 2 artists and a magazine cover is a joke considering we know the entire company can be taken by the Feds at any time and the only reason why she still has that company is because of Teddy. He took the fall for her and Tandy, so the kids would have their mother and Rayna wouldn't lose her business that she is horrible at running and barely is a parent to the girls.

 

 

My parents ROARING my name from the floor would have shattered the windows and all the barware.

Yelling at her is one thing, starting a  brawl and physically assaults are something else. Deacons lucky that yet again he's not being arrested or charged. How many times have we seen him start attacking people first when he could have handled the situations differently. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Artsda

[Soup333]

Yelling at her is one thing, starting a  brawl and physically assaults are something else. Deacons lucky that yet again he's not being arrested or charged. How many times have we seen him start attacking people first when he could have handled the situations differently. 

 

Brawl where? I'm just curious what these other ways are that Deacon could have handled this. He saw the guy touching her. Once seen, he couldn't unsee it and just stand there and wait until she was done singing. Any time a parent sits by and watches their child getting touched inappropriately and does nothing means they are a shit parent. There is no ifs ands or buts about that.

 

I'm sure Juliette didn't thank Jolene for empowering her when her creepy druggie boyfriends were making advances towards her. 

[airwair]

It would have been better for the kids if Teddy hadn't taken the high road for his girls and Rayna. He should have let Hiway 65 go down, let Rayna and Tandy go down.

Rayna being a sucess with 2 artists and a magazine cover is a joke considering we know the entire company can be taken by the Feds at any time and the only reason why she still has that company is because of Teddy. He took the fall for her and Tandy, so the kids would have their mother and Rayna wouldn't lose her business that she is horrible at running and barely is a parent to the girls.

Yelling at her is one thing, starting a brawl and physically assaults are something else. Deacons lucky that yet again he's not being arrested or charged. How many times have we seen him start attacking people first when he could have handled the situations differently.

So... Teddy was supposed to let his ex-wife's legitimate business crumble and fall to cover his own ass when HE was the one committing multiple crimes? And that would be better for the children?

Okay. :-|

I'm sure Juliette didn't thank Jolene for empowering her when her creepy druggie boyfriends were making advances towards her.

But she should've! She has so much life experience now and makes such healthy choices in her personal life as a result.

[Ohmo]

I think that Maddy is not ready for a solo career. Her voice still needs Daphne's harmony.

 

I thought I was by myself on an island thinking that, and I think this statement is true not only for Maddie the character but also for Lennon the singer.

[Sandman]

I don't think the danger is in Unawesome Autumn's firing Scarlett; I think it's in the possibility that she recognizes Scarlett and Gunnar are more than just friends, and she is going to try to seduce Gunnar just to toy with him and make Scarlett's life on the tour a living hell.

 

I don't see Gunnar, gumby though he is, joining her band.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Sandman

[vibeology]

Brawl where? I'm just curious what these other ways are that Deacon could have handled this. He saw the guy touching her. Once seen, he couldn't unsee it and just stand there and wait until she was done singing. Any time a parent sits by and watches their child getting touched inappropriately and does nothing means they are a shit parent. There is no ifs ands or buts about that.

 

But there's a space between stand by and do nothing and immediately attack someone physically. Deacon never goes for that space. He could have tried telling the guy to stop before he got physical (and yes, if talking doesn't work, by all means, move that asshole's hand, but try talking first), but Deacon didn't. It is a pattern in the character and Maddie called it out this year. Deacon gets angry and rage-y and gets violent as a result. It's a problem and when Maddie pointed it out to Rayna, Rayna brushed it off. Deacon needs to figure out how to deal with his temper.

 

One thing I liked was that the show contrasted Rayna and Maddie's performance. Maddie felt a need to perform just like Rayna and she did something impulsive, just like Rayna. When Rayna was on stage, there were fans reaching out for her and Rayna interacted with them. That's something artists do and in venues like Rayna's performance, there's security and gates and other things in place to help protect an artist (though we've seen that fail). That guy grabbing at Maddie was in a very different venue and shouldn't have, because she wasn't in a situation where she could really respond, but fans reaching out to try to touch artists is very common and something Maddie will have to deal with over and over.

[airwair]

I would have to argue that the guy grabbing Maddie was not doing something that normal fans do, as it was with Rayna. He wasn't reaching out to her as a fan and she just "couldn't respond," he was clearly touching her in a sexual manner. There is no comparison between that and the fans that were reaching out to Rayna.

As far as Deacon's temper, it has been established that he has one. It certainly gets the better of him from time to time and lands him in hot water, but I don't for one second believe he would ever hurt his family. Most of the times I've seen his rage come out against another human being has actually been in defense of his family, for better or worse.

Right or wrong, he only punched Luke because he stormed into his house uninvited and raved like a madman before calling Rayna a bitch. He shoved the paparazzi guy because he was invading Maddie's personal space and asking her inflammatory questions. Then, of course, there was throwing Revel Kings guy into a table because he had Scarlett cornered and was trying to rape her.

But based on our prior conversations here, he either should have let her experience it or tried to calmly and rationally talk Cy out of shoving his hand up her skirt.

Perhaps I'm either watching a different show or just coming up blank, but aside from the random heckler at the Bluebird I'm having trouble coming up with a scenario in which he just attacked someone because he felt like it.

I know of zero fathers who wouldn't have done the same thing to this creep or to Cy.

[Bort]

I don't think the danger is in Unawesome Autumn's firing Scarlett; I think it's in the possibility that she recognizes Scarlett and Gunnar are more than just friends, and she is going to try to seduce Gunnar just to toy with him and make Scarlett's life on the tour a living hell.

 

Not that I doubt this theory, because this IS probably what will happen, but why is Autumn fucking with them? Worst case scenario: she seduces Gunnar, Scarlett gets pissed off, the band breaks up, Autumn needs a new opening act. What I think will happen: Autumn fails to seduce Gunnar, he and Scarlett both get pissed off, they quit, Autumn needs a new opening act. Is it that she's bored with touring and creating her own entertainment? I just don't see the logic in torpedoing opening acts and having to hire new ones all the time.

[Soup333]

Deacon should have approached the guy touching his daughter in what was clearly a sexualized manner and said, "Please refrain from touching the personage of my child." And he should have said it calmly and rationally. Then he should have stood by and allowed her to finish the performance that she was not allowed to be doing. Or he should have witnessed her being touched, but then turned around and went home because clearly, his 16 year old daughter makes the best decisions and can handle herself and life lessons and all that. Anything other than a reaction along those lines is somehow publically humiliating her (which is strangely more damaging than being sexually assaulted) and asserting his paternalistic male domination over Maddie's budding womanhood. She's 16 years old, for goodness sakes, she should be allowed to do what she wants!

 

With this line of thinking it follows that Avery will never be able to warn Cadence about the dangers of the stove because it's hot. That's just life, burns happen and she'll figure it out on her own. God knows we don't want him asserting his male authority over her or disrespecting her or anything like that.

 

I'm done.

[Fisher King]

Not that I doubt this theory, because this IS probably what will happen, but why is Autumn fucking with them? Worst case scenario: she seduces Gunnar, Scarlett gets pissed off, the band breaks up, Autumn needs a new opening act. What I think will happen: Autumn fails to seduce Gunnar, he and Scarlett both get pissed off, they quit, Autumn needs a new opening act. Is it that she's bored with touring and creating her own entertainment? I just don't see the logic in torpedoing opening acts and having to hire new ones all the time.

 

This show is a revolving door of Scarlett/Gunnar breakups. I think Juliette had the same problem at times with her opening acts. Autumn was way out of line with airing The Exes' personal history. Of course she'll be screwing them both over pronto. I do hope that the duo will at least be able to get out before they turn on each other YET AGAIN.

 

Can someone clarify for me? Did Luke feel pressured to pick Layla as his opening act, meaning she will replace Will? Or was the deal with Will just to sign him to his label? Plus, I also thought that Riff guy was supposed to be Luke's opening act.

 

Bet they will finally locate Riff at The Beverly in the back guzzling Jack Daniels with Freddie.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Fisher King

[Sutton]

AIRWAIR -- If I could have given you two thumbs up I would have. Perfectly stated what kind of person Deacon is. I don't ever remember him hitting anyone who didn't deserve it. We all know Deacon has a temper but if everyone thinks about it, it only comes out when it effects family or someone he cares about. He was standing there watching and didn't do anything until the guy started touching Maddie's leg then moving his hand up to her thigh, then he went into full daddy mode. It never came out why he left/fired by the Revel's. I wonder how Rayna would reacted if she knew that it was because of Scarlet almost being raped. That's what disturbs me about this series something that serious is never talked about. I know it's not something you want to get around, but Rayna went to see him that time because she was concerned he might have started drinking again, Deacon always comes off as bad because he has a temper, quick to act like punching Luke who stormed into his house because he thought Rayna was there and then said "I should have known better then to sniff around that bitch" that's when Deacon punched the hell out of him.

 

First time father, what's it been now 2/3 yrs he still has a long way to go especially dealing with teenagers. If they are thinking about bringing back Teddy my question is WHY? Maddie didn't listen to him before what could he say that would make a difference.

[Ohmo]

I think, as far as Deacon is concerned, one should be cautious in painting all anger with the same brush.  In addition to the points already raised here by others about fatherhood, there is a vast difference to me between trashing Beverly's room and the other times that Deacon has gotten explosively angry. 

 

This may not sound very "feminist" of me, but oh well.  I'm from the Midwest.  My sister once dated a man from the South.  Our other sister once got into a situation where she potentially faced a threat from a guy.  (Thankfully, it did not escalate.  She was fine, and all was fine.) Upon hearing of the potentially dicey situation, Boyfriend said that he would have had zero problems laying hands on the guy and "escorting" him off of the premises.

 

When queried about this response (since this was the sister of his then girlfriend whom he did not know all that well), his response was very direct: "I'm from the South.  Men do not put their hands on a woman."  Assuming that Deacon is somewhere in his40s, Boyfriend is somewhere between 5-10 years younger, so he's Deacon's semi-contemporary.  Deacon's from Mississippi.  Whether one agrees or disagrees with this view, it is a regionally cultural view that exists today.

 

Yes, Maddie is Deacon's daughter, but I think he would have reacted in that way if it was Daphne or any other female.  The response was more pronounced due to Maddie's relationship to Deacon and her age.

 

(I think pigs have just flown because I have just defended Deacon Claibourne.)

[airwair]

I'm a Tennessee native who now lives in Pennsylvania and spent years in New York. I don't know anyone from above or below the Mason-Dixon that would stand there and let it happen.

And I promise they wouldn't be politely asking the gentleman to ever so kindly remove his hands.

[Ohmo]

Not that I doubt this theory, because this IS probably what will happen, but why is Autumn fucking with them? Worst case scenario: she seduces Gunnar, Scarlett gets pissed off, the band breaks up, Autumn needs a new opening act. What I think will happen: Autumn fails to seduce Gunnar, he and Scarlett both get pissed off, they quit, Autumn needs a new opening act. Is it that she's bored with touring and creating her own entertainment? I just don't see the logic in torpedoing opening acts and having to hire new ones all the time.

 

I don't think Autumn thinks of it in that way.  We know from watching Juliette that she could be an absolute train wreck and yet she could perform on stage and Glenn and her "people" (like Emily) kept things together behind the scenes.  Autumn strikes me as a person who just likes to fuck with people for sport.  She got rid of that musician in front of everyone.  She took the Exes (in part) because I think she figured out that Layla really wanted the tour. So that's how she screwed with Layla.  With Gunnar and Scarlett, Autumn  knows they have history, so that's what she will use to fuck with them.  I think it's all a game to her.  To this point, she's been successful enough (and her people have probably covered enough) that she's been allowed to get away with it.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Ohmo

[mikem]

Cash's overinvestment in a 16-year-old who's probably a decade younger than Cash and encouragement of rebellion is very bizarre and inappropriate behavior.  If Cash were male, alarm bells would be ringing all over the place.  I doubt the show is going in that direction, though.  I think people are right that it will be all about Cash's lost dreams (snore).

Edited April 15, 2016 by mikem

[Artsda]

 

So... Teddy was supposed to let his ex-wife's legitimate business crumble and fall to cover his own ass when HE was the one committing multiple crimes? And that would be better for the children?

It's not legitimate, that's the whole issue and why the Feds are after them. Teddy not giving them up, doesn't mean the Feds have forgotten everything. They'll find another way.

 

And it was a deal, a deal that would have let him be out of jail to parent his  kids. Instead he chose Rayna's awful business and not let her sister & her pay for their crimes instead of putting Daphne and Maddie first. It would have been better for them to not have the parent who actually parented them be around.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Artsda

[airwair]

It's not legitimate, that's the whole issue and why the Feds are after them. Teddy not giving them up, doesn't mean the Feds have forgotten everything. They'll find another way.

And it was a deal, a deal that would have let him be out of jail to parent his kids. Instead he chose Rayna's awful business and not let her sister & her pay for their crimes instead of putting Daphne and Maddie first. It would have been better for them to not have the parent who actually parented them be around.

What crime did Rayna commit, exactly? You specifically mention her, her sister, and "their crimes." I'm just curious.

Teddy, on the other hand, knowingly embezzled $2 million. He knowingly allowed Lamar to bribe an auditor to cover his own skin. He illegally made an investigation into a drug fueled party where an underage girl almost died go away. He extorted a public figure to gain access to taxpayer funds so that he could pay off a hooker. He signed Maddie over to the same guy who almost killed aforementioned underage girl to hide the fact that he was paying a hooker.

Rayna maybe sort of but not really forged a birth certificate.

I'm seriously baffled by this argument.

Edited April 15, 2016 by airwair

[jelaine]

 

I'm seriously baffled by this argument.

If I'm remembering correctly, Tandy was involved with Lamar's shady dealings.  She definitely knew enough to provide evidence.  She also heavily invested in Highway 65.  If the money Tandy invested is dirty money, the Feds could and would confiscate Highway 65 if they thought it would do them any good, one way or the other.

 

So no.  Rayna has not committed any crimes.  If her company was created using dirty money, it's up for grabs if the Feds decide to go down that road.

[Fisher King]

^^Yep, Tandy is as dirty as her father was. I've not been able to warm up to her at all. It doesn't help that she was also Barb's evil sister on Big Love.

[airwair]

Tandy threw in $3 million. Rayna took a $20 million mortgage out against her house and liquidated some stocks.

I guess if you want to get technical you could say she "heavily" invested corrupt funds, but I personally think $3 million vs. $20+ is chump change.

All in all, the only thing illegal Rayna ever did was not turn Teddy in when she knew about all he was doing. So that still doesn't answer my question of why Teddy is the holy grail parent.

Lamar is dead and they have Teddy. The Feds are finished on this show. Sorry. (Except I'm not. It's a show about music. The politics got taken way too far so thank goodness we are past that.)

Edited April 15, 2016 by airwair

[Sandman]

Autumn strikes me as a person who just likes to fuck with people for sport. She got rid of that musician in front of everyone. She took the Exes (in part) because I think she figured out that Layla really wanted the tour. So that's how she screwed with Layla. With Gunnar and Scarlett, Autumn  knows they have history, so that's what she will use to fuck with them. I think it's all a game to her. To this point, she's been successful enough (and her people have probably covered enough) that she's been allowed to get away with it.

 

I agree that Autumn likes having her own way, and enjoys having power over others. I'm not certain that she specifically signed the Exes because Layla wanted to be her opening act, but at the very least she knew Layla wanted the spot, encouraged her, and went ahead and hired someone else regardless of Layla's feelings. Regardless, I think, is the key here: Autumn is used to getting and doing whatever she wants without any regard for the needs or wishes of anyone else at all. Of course, relentless carelessness is theoretically distinguishable from deliberate cruelty, but it's often hard to make out much difference in effect.

 

Of course, the meta-story reason is: Because we need a crazy-ass pot-stirring vixen for plot reasons, okay?

[Artsda]

What crime did Rayna commit, exactly? You specifically mention her, her sister, and "their crimes." I'm just curious.

Teddy, on the other hand, knowingly embezzled $2 million. He knowingly allowed Lamar to bribe an auditor to cover his own skin. He illegally made an investigation into a drug fueled party where an underage girl almost died go away. He extorted a public figure to gain access to taxpayer funds so that he could pay off a hooker. He signed Maddie over to the same guy who almost killed aforementioned underage girl to hide the fact that he was paying a hooker.

Rayna maybe sort of but not really forged a birth certificate.

I'm seriously baffled by this argument.

 

As explained below, Rayna's company is funded with dirty illegal money. Teddy went to jail because he refused the deal that would have turned on Tandy, Rayna, and the Government would have ended up seizing her company and having her lose her house and everything. 

 

Rayna's hardly innocent. She has that company only because Teddy refused the deal and went to jail, which has lost him out on being with his kids and his kids their father who was their full time parent.

 

Rayna's responsible for knowing where her funds come from, the fact she has no idea what her company is built on doesn't make her innocent. She's responsible for not knowing where Tandy got the money or how she does business. Especially since Tandy was working for her.

[airwair]

Okay, I'll give the benefit of the doubt for the sake of not running around in circles.

How is this worse than the multiple crimes Teddy is guilty of committing? (One of which he easily sold his daughter out for to protect himself.)

[TVFAN]

Re the Teddy, Rayna, Tandy debate, everyone who has weighed in had been "right" in a way.

 

Teddy, in fact, could have avoided jail time (and likely any punishment) by turning state's evidence against Tandy.  He stole money, but given the Fed's interest in Tandy and Lamar, they must have stolen much, much more.  Teddy did screw up, but he realized it, and he was willing to take his punishment.

 

Rayna is "innocent" in the sense that she was not involved in Lamar's dirty deals.  But her innocence would not have saved her or the company had the Feds convinced Teddy to testify.  A forfeiture action is not a criminal action.  The person forfeiting property need not be the one who committed a crime.  For example, if you let someone use your car, and they use it to run drugs, your car may be subject to forfeit because it was used a criminal instrumentality.  The forfeiture action is what is called an "in rem" action.  It's brought against the property, not the person.

 

In this instance, Tandy invested dirty money, the fruits of her illegal activities,  in "Highway 65."  If the Feds could prove the money resulted from her crimes, the company could be forced to forfeit it.  And I think Rayna's problems go even deeper than that in the sense that it's my recollection that she inherited a boatload of money from Lamar and invested some or most of it in the company.  Since it was dirty money, it too would be subject to forfeiture.  

 

I doubt that the show goes there, but having Rayna deal with financial ruin could actually be an interesting storyline.  She's never had to struggle financially.  It would also be interesting to see her cope with the realization that she has been using dirty money.  Teddy not only spared her the loss of the company, he spared her the knowledge that Lamar and Tandy were crooks, and she was the beneficiary of their crimes.

[Clemgo3165]

Rayna's pretty darn innocent in this one to me. So her sister threw in some shady money to the start up of Hwy 65, is she supposed to ask Tandy, her own sister, if she acquired the money through shady dealings? How is Tandy going to answer that question ya think? She's surely not going to say "yes." 

 

Teddy did do the noble thing in not turning in Tandy to save his own @ss from prison, but that doesn't diminish his crimes. And Tandy is the guilty party in the money mess, Rayna would be the victim of that crime since she'd likely lose her business due to Tandy's money maneuvers.

 

 

In this instance, Tandy invested dirty money, the fruits of her illegal activities,  in "Highway 65."  If the Feds could prove the money resulted from her crimes, the company could be forced to forfeit it.  And I think Rayna's problems go even deeper than that in the sense that it's my recollection that she inherited a boatload of money from Lamar and invested some or most of it in the company.  Since it was dirty money, it too would be subject to forfeiture. 

I doubt that the show goes there, but having Rayna deal with financial ruin could actually be an interesting storyline.  She's never had to struggle financially.  It would also be interesting to see her cope with the realization that she has been using dirty money.  Teddy not only spared her the loss of the company, he spared her the knowledge that Lamar and Tandy were crooks, and she was the beneficiary of their crimes.

 

But she did know that Lamar was crooked, didn't she? I'm pretty sure she did though I could be wrong - I skipped past a number of the Tandy/Lamar scenes.

 

Rayna would definitely have to forfeit the funds given by Tandy (and thanks for this info, it was great), but would she really have to forfeit her entire inheritance? While they could likely prove that some of Lamar's money was ill-gotten gain, that house was purchased decades ago and it would be difficult to prove criminal activity going back that far.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Clemgo3165

[Bwill3133]

With everything said I think we can all agree that Deacon, Rayna and Teddy will not be winning any Parent of the Year trophies anytime soon right?

I like Scarlett and Gunnar as friends so I hope they don't let Autumn into their heads.

[Sutton]

Bwill3133 - Just take a look at Gunnar's face, in just about every episode how he looks at Scarlet, that's not a look of a friend looking at a friend. He's still very much in love with her but isn't going to make a move until she says she still has feelings for him in that way. Scarlet is even holding back, because when Gunnar was having a fling with the tour person, Scarlet wasn't very happy about it and it showed on her face every time she saw them together. I remember what Watty White said about them in season 1 or 2 about them reminding him of Deacon/Rayna's relationship when they were that age and starting out together. They are so musically matched as partners.

[Muffyn]

As far as Deacon goes, there is something in between saying, "My good sir, would you be so kind as to unhand the young lady?" and trying to rough someone up.  I have worked security at some interesting events (that is, ones with drunk and/or naked people).  The key is to stop the problem and to de-escalate.  Only if the person will not stop, would you touch them.  While in this instance many people can understand Deacon grabbing the guy who is touching a 16 year old in an inappropriate and unwanted manner, the show has set up an understanding that Deacon sometimes goes too quickly to a place of anger.  In the previous incidents, it's been a mixed bag.  Someone trying to rape Scarlet - get him Deacon!  Hit him!  Kick him!  Make him regret ever thinking about touching her!  Hulking out on a room - eh, not so good a choice.

 

Other than one person who made a comment suggesting that Maddie somehow deserved to have something bad happen to teach her a lesson (even typing that makes my brain want to explode), I think we  would all agree that Gropy McGroperson was absolutely in the wrong and needed to be stopped.  No one has the right to touch another person against their will ever.  The issue is how he was stopped.  Maddie also needs to be taken to task for her decision to sneak out to perform at such a venue. 

 

One thing this show vacillates in greatly is the parenting.  We have seen some excellent discussions between parents and children in which it was clear the children were heard and respected, and the parents explained their reasoning while providing guidance and reassurance.  Unfortunately these tend to be the clean up after some Dramah!

 

Someone further up asked about being able to perform in a bar.  The age at which performers can enter a bar depends on the jurisdiction and sometimes the type if venue.  Places with food can be under different rules than those with booze and pretzels.  When I was younger I performed in many a different venue.  In some locals, we flat out lied about my age, although usually I only had to pretend to be 18 even if the drinking age was 21.  Couldn't drink.  Could work.  In others age didn't matter as long as I was either  on stage on back stage; that is, I was not allowed on the main floor.  Since the show showed the bouncer asking Maddie's age and being okay with "She's 21 tonight" I would assume she needed to be 21 to enter.  However, they didn't address whether she could have claimed 18 as a performer. 

[EyesGlazed]

Oh, Maddie, the call is coming from inside the house, you know what I mean? Maddie's the worst, though, so I don't care. Do your worst, Cash.

Oh my gosh, When A Stranger Calls!  What a fantastic, classic movie that was.*  Thank you NuGuy514 for the shoutout and for being as old as I am.

 

I am not going to restart the great debate in this thread about whether Deacon over-reacted with Maddie in the bar -- so please don't repeat your posts again.  Enough has been (well) said.  But I do want to point out that this was a good episode because it provoked complicated reactions where we viewers could sympathize with the characters a little or a lot but also condemn them for some things too.  

 

And probably that's why we have to suffer through the teen angst of Maddie and why I think the show intends us not to have much patience for her right now.  Nashville is clearly not geared toward teens or tweens.  It's directed at the older-adult crowd.  I think we're all supposed to be throwing up our hands at Maddie's actions and debating what we would do if we were her parents.  And we're doing it.  Well played, show.

 

Re Alicia Witt as Autumn:  I saw her last playing a baddie on The Walking Dead - and she played the part well - so my insides were twisting with dread from the first time "Autumn" appeared.  Hopefully she will not split Gunnar's skull and eat his brains.

 

Why all the Layla hate?  I agree with the posters upthread who pointed out that she is alone, grief-stricken, and can't catch a fricking break in her career, so let's cut her some slack. I like her and want her to succeed.  It's about time the show let her have some career triumph or other sort of happiness.

 

*Referring to the 1979 original, not the remake.

Edited April 16, 2016 by EyesGlazed

[KaveDweller]

I'm beginning to think this is what's happening. Are we sure Creepy Cash is interested in Maddie herself at all? Or does she identify with Maddie? I wonder if the whole "Do you even know how talented she is?" means that Cash is using Maddie and Deacon to work out her unresolved conflicts with her own drunk of a father.  (Still creepy, though.)

 

I think she either identifies with her or somehow wants to be controlling Maddie as she becomes famous to either profit from her or just live vicariously through her. Everyone keeps saying how it's normal that a 16-year-old like Maddie wouldn't want to hang out with her little sister, which is true.  But what I think it much weirder than that option is a 20-something wanting to hang out with a 16-year-old. I get the idea of wanting to mentor someone, but she is way to over invested.

 

I think Maddie is a brat, but I also think Deacon did not handle things well. But on TV shows men all seem to be written as highly-tempered people who physically attack someone who does something inappropriate to a loved one. TV writers seem to think this is an appealing trait, but I disagree.  Violence isn't okay just because the other individual crossed a line. I've seen a lot of comments that any father would have reacted the same way, but I truly can't even fathom my father doing that. Now I never got groped while singing in a bar as a teenager, so I can't say for sure, but I really can't imagine him doing that. Not because he's not protective/caring, because it's just not in his nature. And that may not be normal, but he certainly can't be the only man like that. 

 

So anyway, everyone involved in the situation sucked.

 

Rayna's hardly innocent. She has that company only because Teddy refused the deal and went to jail, which has lost him out on being with his kids and his kids their father who was their full time parent.

 

She didn't know it was dirty money though, did she? I think that does make her innocent, even if her company would have been financially hurt by it all coming out.

 

At that point Gunnar would then be in breach of contract if he just said "eff all y'all" and joined her band.

 

The same way Marcus was in breach of contract when he went back to his old band, Julliet was in breach of contract when she left Rayna to sign with Luke, and Sadie was in breach of contract when she walked away from her album after she had to shoot her ex?

 

Highway 65 needs better lawyers.

[Fisher King]

Blue ribbon post, EyesGlazed! 1000 likes.

 

You're right. This show is not geared toward tweens, it's about adults who act like tweens...or younger. 

 

I also liked Alicia Witt on TWD. I'm convinced she turned specifically for this show to eat opening acts & underlings for snacks. Kudos to production for making her appear human.

 

I like Layla, too. I really don't care for how the show has wasted her talent. When she was singing her songs after the Will breakup, she was great. Jeff tainted her. No reason the show should continue stringing her along. Either end her storyline or give her a friggin' happy moment.

 

That's my major gripe: this show knows how to do fantastic, sincere moments with its main cast, they just cannot sustain these moments into plausible situations for any length of time.

 

And give me back Maddie & Daphne, the singing duo, dammit! Ever since they started acting, they're acting out, forcing Rayna to start acting like a parent. Deacon too. Why make them be responsible parents now?

Don't answer that.

Tune in next week. Maddie runs away with the creepy groper, and will Daphne will become a singing nun?

[thuganomics85]

Yikes, I have no idea what the writers are doing, but the way Jessy Schram plays Cash, it really comes off like something is off with her.  It just doesn't feel like someone who is trying to be a "good friend" to Maddie or be "supportive."  She is coming off obsessive, unhinged, and... well, kind of creepy.  I actually worry she's going to kidnap Maddie or something.  There better be an explanation for this, because at this point, I think Deacon and Rayna should consider a restraining order for Cash.

 

As for the big debate: I'm in the middle.  I wish they just had Deacon simply be pissed that she lied to him, and not do the whole "Guy touching her; must defend daughter/woman that is important to my life" story, that always does make the male character come off paternalistic and overprotective.  At the same time, at the end of the day, fair or unfair, Maddie is still technically a minor and living under their house, and while it might suck, that is life, and until she can legally get out from under them, she has to follow the rules, or suffer the punishment, as along as it isn't abusive.  As for what Deacon did making things worse, perhaps, but honestly, I'm not sure what they can do.  It feels like when Rayna and Deacon are hard on her, she goes off and rebels even harder.  When they are lenient, she takes advantage of it and the results are just as bad.  It just feels like Maddie is going always be a problem, so what is the solution?  I don't know.  Oh, and I really feel bad for Daphne, because I"m sure Maddie is going to lay into her for accidentally giving it a way, because Maddie is an asshole, who will no doubt blame others for her own mistakes.

 

I am curious if there is any legal trouble over letting an underage person in a bar, without an ID.  Because if Deacon really wanted to go all out, he could have just call the cops, and if Maddie thought what he did was humiliating, imagine how that would have turned out.

 

So, moving past all that, Will and Kevin reunite and it's bittersweet, Autumn is clearly up to no good and will probably drive a wedge between Gunnar and Scarlett, Luke is realizing he might have fucked up by bringing his old friend back on tour, and Rayna is feeling the pull of the spotlight again. Just another day in Nashville!

 

But, hey, Juliette is actually be somewhat mature right now and made good movement with Glen.  I hope it actually sticks this time.  And she and Avery continue to be civil. Too bad their is a certain Layla hanging around, clearly wanting to fuck all that to hell.  Oh, Nashville!

[Sandman]

I am curious if there is any legal trouble over letting an underage person in a bar, without an ID.  Because if Deacon really wanted to go all out, he could have just call the cops, and if Maddie thought what he did was humiliating, imagine how that would have turned out.

 

I think a bar risks losing its license by letting an underage person in. I don't know how many strikes have to be proved before the bar is out, but that might depend on the jurisdiction.

[Sandman]

Highway 65 needs better lawyers.

 

Highway 65 needs A lawyer, for a start -- not a new character, necessarily, but it would be nice to know that there is one.

[Ohmo]

And probably that's why we have to suffer through the teen angst of Maddie and why I think the show intends us not to have much patience for her right now.  Nashville is clearly not geared toward teens or tweens.  It's directed at the older-adult crowd.  I think we're all supposed to be throwing up our hands at Maddie's actions and debating what we would do if we were her parents.  And we're doing it.  Well played, show.

 

But see, I think we're way past teenage angst.  Plus, being a teenager is not an excuse for behaving like Maddie is behaving.  She is not the least bit sympathetic to anyone, and I call BS on the "teenage angst" stuff.  Being a teenager should not entitle someone to be as vapid as Maddie is, and the fact that she is as vapid and selfish as she is at 16 should concern the crap out of Rayna.

 

As has been mentioned, she utterly blew by the fact that Colt is joining the army.  The vast majority of teenagers have a basic understanding of what armed service requires these days.  Deployment likely involves combat, and this is someone Maddie cared for at one time.  Colt and Luke both mentioned being scared.  Did Maddie acknowledge the serious nature of the situation at all?  Nope, just more bitching and moaning about her music and what she can't do.

 

This is the one that really gets me.  For months and months and months, Maddie agonized and cried and went on and on and on about the fact that her parents weren't together.  Now Daphne is in that exact same position that Maddie was.  I understand that Teddy's no longer on the canvas, but Teddy's not needed for Maddie to be the one to say, "Hey Daphne.  I know how hard it must be for you to have Dad gone and have Deacon here.  Even though you like Deacon, I know it's not the same for you.  I know how much you miss Dad because that's how much I missed Deacon."  Maddie is uniquely qualified to understand what Daphne is experiencing, and teenagers are not (and should not be) be incapable of expressing empathy for others.

 

I understand that Maddie may not want to hang out with her younger sister, but establishing one's own identity should not be the same as losing one's humanity.  Maddie may be musically talented, but she is not a nice person right now.  At this moment, I don't want her to succeed musically because I don't think she deserves it.  She doesn't recognize what she has because she is entirely focused on the fact that her mean, mean parents (in her opinion) are squashing her stardom.  Shut up, Maddie, and to keep giving her a pass due to teenage angst is a disservice to teenagers.  Not all teenagers behave this way and such behavior should not be given the appearance of being acceptable because it is done during specific years on a calendar.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Ohmo

[airwair]

I think a bar risks losing its license by letting an underage person in. I don't know how many strikes have to be proved before the bar is out, but that might depend on the jurisdiction.

In Tennessee the ABC will conduct random stings at bars. They send in underage people to see if they can A) even be allowed in by the doorman, and B) if they can be served a drink without being carded.

Strike one is a misdemeanor summons/fine for the bartender and a hefty fine (upward of $10,000) for the bar. I'm not sure what the punishment would be for the doorman who allowed the minor inside.

You're then on the shit list and they'll return more frequently. Strike two results in even more of the above and a 10-day loss of the liquor license.

I've never seen strike three but I can't imagine it being pretty. That's probably when permanent loss of license begins to come in.

Now if there is an incident where it's not a sting and a situation arises where someone gets hurt or something and it's revealed there are underage people inside, those punishments vary depending on what's taking place.

A bartender at the place where I was a hostess in high school was carted off in handcuffs after a minor was served and involved in a fatal accident.

[mikem]

I enjoyed the meta-ness when first Glenn said that there was so much up and down and back and forth with Juliette, with her firing him then rehiring him over and over again, and then Rayna bemoaned that she keeps signing Highway 65 artists who have some kind of exhausting drama and then end up leaving the label anyway.  In real life, Glenn and Rayna would probably benefit from some intensive therapy to try to figure out why they keep entering the same unhealthy dynamic over and over again, but on a primetime soap, that kind of recurrent drama is par for the course.

[Sandman]

I think Rayna, for all her generosity as a person, doesn't actually have a lot of self-knowledge. She seems to think she gives her all to her artists, when she doesn't really communicate with them very effectively. Layla went off her own to guilt Luke into a tour spot because she had no idea what Rayna and Bucky were planning. And her support of The Exes, in this episode at least, seems to consist entirely of showing up for pre-concert backstage hugs before she decides to give an unscheduled performance herself, arguably upstaging her key talent.

 

Do the writers just assume the audience will believe Rayna is awesome, no matter that her onscreen behaviour is usually short-sighted and frequently blindly selfish? Do they concurrently assume that Maddie's own destructive self-absorption reads as typical teenage, and thus forgivable, behaviour, instead of the wretched near-sociopathy it has become?

[Bwill3133]

Bwill3133 - Just take a look at Gunnar's face, in just about every episode how he looks at Scarlet, that's not a look of a friend looking at a friend. He's still very much in love with her but isn't going to make a move until she says she still has feelings for him in that way. Scarlet is even holding back, because when Gunnar was having a fling with the tour person, Scarlet wasn't very happy about it and it showed on her face every time she saw them together. I remember what Watty White said about them in season 1 or 2 about them reminding him of Deacon/Rayna's relationship when they were that age and starting out together. They are so musically matched as partners.

It took Rayna and Deacon 20 years to have a successful relationship. Is that really the model they want to follow? For me Gunnar turned into a selfish ass when Scarlett was in another relationship so that's why I like them as friends. Scarlett was upset with the roadie but never reacted like She wanted it to stop. It didn't take a toll on The Exes. so I think they work better not together but that's just me.

[Sutton]

The reason it took Deacon/Rayna 20 yrs to get together, first, it was his drinking, second, she got pregnant and didn't tell him about it, third, she married someone else to hide from Deacon that he had a child because of the stupid promise she made to Teddy, fourth, when he found out got drunk (after being sober for 13 yrs) she was driving the car had an accident SUV flipped 4 times that was over done, fifth, still didn't trust Deacon so she decided to marry someone else but at the last second decided again it wasn't the right thing to do ....someone help me here I'm sure there are a whole lot of others to list.

 

AIRWAIR your so good at this do you have anything to add or fix my time line...

[Clanstarling]

As much as I dislike conniving Layla, she's not entirely wrong that Luke owes her. Or, at least, owes Jeff's memory. Luke's assuaging his guilt by giving in to her manipulations - not recognizing them for what they are. What could go wrong?

Anyone else think that Rayna ends up on tour with Luke now that Ripp (Riff?) has gone missing.

[Ohmo]

Anyone else think that Rayna ends up on tour with Luke now that Ripp (Riff?) has gone missing.

 

I think it's more likely to be Will since there's been a point of Will returning to Wheelin Dealin, and Luke saying he was wrong to end his business relationship with Will in the first place.

[Soup333]

I think Rayna, for all her generosity as a person, doesn't actually have a lot of self-knowledge. She seems to think she gives her all to her artists, when she doesn't really communicate with them very effectively. Layla went off her own to guilt Luke into a tour spot because she had no idea what Rayna and Bucky were planning. And her support of The Exes, in this episode at least, seems to consist entirely of showing up for pre-concert backstage hugs before she decides to give an unscheduled performance herself, arguably upstaging her key talent.

 

Do the writers just assume the audience will believe Rayna is awesome, no matter that her onscreen behaviour is usually short-sighted and frequently blindly selfish? Do they concurrently assume that Maddie's own destructive self-absorption reads as typical teenage, and thus forgivable, behaviour, instead of the wretched near-sociopathy it has become?

 

To be fair to Rayna, it had only been a couple days since Autumn chose the Exes. Should she have called Layla and told her about her idea before Bucky made the calls to organize it? I don't think so. I think that would disappoint her even more if it fell through and it'd make Rayna look even worse as a labelhead. 

[Clanstarling]

I think it's more likely to be Will since there's been a point of Will returning to Wheelin Dealin, and Luke saying he was wrong to end his business relationship with Will in the first place.

True - but he got Riff on board because he needed a headliner of equal status to draw the crowds - which is why I thought of Rayna, whose plot line is now how much she misses performing. I was expecting Will to be on it too - just in the slot Layla finagled for herself. Edited April 17, 2016 by clanstarling

[Ohmo]

To be fair to Rayna, it had only been a couple days since Autumn chose the Exes. Should she have called Layla and told her about her idea before Bucky made the calls to organize it? I don't think so. I think that would disappoint her even more if it fell through and it'd make Rayna look even worse as a labelhead. 

 

I don't want to speak for Sandman (whose post you were responding to), but I liked his post because I have long felt that we (the audience) are supposed to think that Rayna is wonderfully, stupendously, incredibly awesome, and we should root for her for that reason.  Yet, I don't feel that way about her, and I don't like the impression that I should feel that way.  The writers are also doing that with Maddie.  Cash just said it.  "You have no idea how talented she is" or whatever her exact words were.  That's loaded manipulation of the audience, in my opinion.  I know that Maddie is talented.  I can't sing at all.  Not now or at 16.  Ditto playing the guitar.  Maddie's talent has already been established, and this wasn't a promo scene where Rayna was talking up Layla for radio executives.  Those are scenes when the smoozing is expected, but in a scene between Cash and Deacon, I don't need to be reminded "Hey audience, remember that Maddie is talented."

 

True - but he got Riff on board because he needed a headliner of equal status to draw the crowds - which is why I thought of Rayna, whose plot line is now how much she misses performing. I was expecting Will to be on it too - just in the slot Layla finagled for herself.

 

Country music really isn't my thing except for this show, and this isn't The West Wing.  With the showrunner shift next season, could someone be trying to send a message as it pertains to real-life country music and the LGBT community?  I sense that Luke could take Will out on tour with him as both a message to his fictional audience and a message to the viewing audience.  Will declined the opportunity to sign with that one label who had musicians who were gay or lesbian who worked in a variety of genres.  Luke is a "name" in fictional Nashville, and he has apologized to Will.  I'm wondering if Luke's going to make Will a headliner with Layla as the opening act and see what happens.

[Soup333]

I was only defending Rayna's actions in that specific instance. She's not a very good at this whole label head thing, but it was just a few days Layla's showcase. Rayna told Layla they would figure something out for her and Glenn told Layla not to worry about it but she went to Luke a few days later anyway. It's a combination of Layla being impatient, her probably not trusting Rayna completely because of things that happened in the past (Markus/not showing up at the Bluebird), and the need to show Layla as willing to do whatever she has to do to "get things done" like Jeff would have done.

[Brookside]

Hey Glenn, you do realize Donald Trump doesn't have a goatee, don't you?

[Bobcatkitten]

I do think that Deacon's temper was a bit over the top but saying he should have just stayed home and waited for her to come home is ridiculous. She lied - that has to be dealt with immediately not on her timeline. 

 

Also, I think Scarlett's hair is just in that awkward, growing-out stage. It either needs to be super short or grow out a few more inches.

Edited April 21, 2016 by scribe95

[aradia22]

Oh, I missed Juliette. No one makes me cry like Hayden.

I can't tell who is more ridiculous. Sexy Maddie or Emo Gunnar.

Was season 1 Deacon this prone to outbursts? I remember him being much more even-keeled with the fighting and such being the anomaly.