Roots (2016 History Channel)

[DHDancer]

Hmm, I just assumed there were more children but they were not focused on.  I can't imagine Tom Lea keeping Kizzy around if she wasn't producing "more stock" for him, no matter how much he liked her.

[Ohwell]

Speaking of children, how many children did Chicken George and his wife have?  I think she mentioned three were sold, and there were three (?) living on the plantation when he came back after 20 years.  I was surprised that they had so many children before he was sold to the British guy.

[Raja]

34 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Speaking of children, how many children did Chicken George and his wife have?  I think she mentioned three were sold, and there were three (?) living on the plantation when he came back after 20 years.  I was surprised that they had so many children before he was sold to the British guy.

I think Chicken George said 8 at one point 

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, DHDancer said:

Hmm, I just assumed there were more children but they were not focused on.  I can't imagine Tom Lea keeping Kizzy around if she wasn't producing "more stock" for him, no matter how much he liked her.

Well Kizzy did work, and slaves were expensive. You can't just go selling a female slave because she only managed to give birth to one child unless you're very very wealthy. Who knows what other kind of slave you'd get in her place? It could've been a combination of factors, Kizzy could've been taking a combination of plants, or douching with vinegar/lemon juice (anything acidic she would have access to) on the regular in an attempt to prevent another pregnancy. (Women knew that acid was bad for sperm, it wasn't as fool proof as our modern contraceptives but worth the effort). George's birth could've caused a complication that affected her fertility, in addition Tom Lea may have had low fertility and hence why he only seemed to have one child. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

Speaking of children, how many children did Chicken George and his wife have?  I think she mentioned three were sold, and there were three (?) living on the plantation when he came back after 20 years.  I was surprised that they had so many children before he was sold to the British guy.

Yes three were sold, three grown sons with wives and then two unmarried children equals 8 as Chicken George mentioned. Although the old age makeup was good, given we didn't get a year with each time jump it could get confusing. Assuming Chicken George and Matlida married when they were around 18, and had 8 children together in 12 or so years before he was sold (one was just a new baby), twenty years later when he came home the time line adds up, and they would only be 50. 50 for a slave in the antebellum south is not 50 a 50yrs old office worker in 2016 (looks wise I mean). 

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

I think Chicken George said 8 at one point 

Thanks, I missed that. 

[TigerLynx]

In the original, the woman taking care of Kizzy after Tom raped her the first time, told Kizzy that Master Tom liked them young, and he would bother her until she had a child, and then he would move on to someone else.  There were also plants women could take which would prevent pregnancy, or end one.  The Native American women would know which ones they were, and the slaves which were part Native American and part African American would know to.

[Scarlett45]

Watching Episode 4 again now (my Mom wanted to see it), one thing that stood out to me that I didn't mention before, is that Tom's misdirected anger towards Chicken George for "doing something foolish to get himself sold away", although WRONG and misguided seemed VERY VERY REAL. (there is nothing George could have done, he went away screaming and crying, he warned Tom Lea not to make those bets etc). At the end of the day, although Tom is certainly a man in his culture (age wise), when Chicken George was sent to England he was a boy, and he saw the pain and heartache that caused his Mother, Grandmother and siblings. He had to be angry at SOMEONE, being angry at Chicken George who wasn't there, was a hell of a lot easier than being mad at the system of slavery which he was still entrenched, by believing he could protect his family from the same thing by being better/smarter etc gave him a bit of mental power in a world where he was powerless. As Chicken George tells him when he comes home "there's no right way to be a slave".

[Swansong]

Quote

  Fighting back takes a lot of forms.  Not just the physical altercations we saw in this one, but also in the simple act of trying to escape.  Given how many slaves escaped or attempted to escape, we can figure that many were fighting in their own way.   Or in small everyday little rebellions  like tainting food or watching a master choke on a chicken bone and not running for help, or a judicious push down the stairs when no one is looking.  

The only 'fight back' moment I had a problem with was the last one when George killed the slaveholder son and even that was more because I don't think the show did a good job of establishing that the slaveholder father had that much affection or much of a relationship with his slaves which I think they needed to do for that to pay off. I think someone said he was supposed to have some affection for Tom, but I don't remember that being established all that well or at all or maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention. I mean he was nicer than his son, not hard to be, but he was also apparently willing to deny them food and then offered them that lame chicken and hog deal for them continuing to work the land. So the idea that he would help them after they killed his son, even in self-defense, even if he didn't like his son all that much and knew what an arse he was didn't really work. Plus it really wasn't a necessarily moment since the real empowering event was them getting to leave of their own free will not getting to kill a white slaveholder.

Whereas the moment with Kunte Kinte worked for me because there were no real witnesses(well except the British soldiers who stumbled upon him after the fact and had their own agenda which he then played on) and the importance of Kunte being someone still very tied to his African roots and being a warrior were treated as very integral to his character and from what I've read they were more likely to fight back so I though the circumstances fit. I also thought Tom Lea was one of the better developed white characters and that the show did a pretty good job of establishing his relationship with Kizzy and Chicken George and Mingo and the kind of man he was and how that played into their relationship with him.

I also agree it wasn't just a case of slaves being passive or going all Django, but something much more in between and complex in terms of resistance and I thought the series also did a great job of showing that not just with the rebellions and the 'killing moments', but also with the moments like slaves repeatedly trying to run away or less obvious things like the songs they sang and how they were used or trying to hold on to traditions or Kizzy learning to read and write despite the severe consequences or putting stuff in people's food or even playing up to their slave owners in the hopes of getting concessions in return.

[ruby24]

England abolished slavery in 1833, so if George was taken there in 1831, he wouldn't have had to be a slave for the next 30 years. Was that an error?

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, ruby24 said:

England abolished slavery in 1833, so if George was taken there in 1831, he wouldn't have had to be a slave for the next 30 years. Was that an error?

I think although George may have been technically free in England, he couldn't come home to the USA without the proper documentation, or he'd just belong to Tom Lea again, as such he was effectively enslaved, at least I thought that's what the writers were getting at. 

[junemeatcleaver]

Is anyone watching the original miniseries on blu-ray?  I think the first Roots is more frustrating and infuriating.  There was a scene where the Vic Morrow's overseer, the Reynolds/Waller brothers and Reynolds' wife were debating whether slaves had the capacity for learning, thought and feeling that made me so angry I had to turn it off.

[Raja]

On 6/7/2016 at 3:09 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I think although George may have been technically free in England, he couldn't come home to the USA without the proper documentation, or he'd just belong to Tom Lea again, as such he was effectively enslaved, at least I thought that's what the writers were getting at. 

I was thinking he was also more an indentured servant. If he did have any children in England they would not become the property of the cock fighting owner

[Ohwell]

I wondered about George having children in England, because I'm assuming he must have had some kind of relationship(s) over 20 years.

[Scarlett45]

5 minutes ago, Raja said:

I was thinking he was also more an indentured servant. If he did have any children in England they would not become the property of the cock fighting owner

The status of slavery/freeman is determined by your mother not your father, as such George's legal status wouldn't have had any effect on his children born in the US or Britain, but I see what you're getting at. 

[TigerLynx]

10 hours ago, junemeatcleaver said:

Is anyone watching the original miniseries on blu-ray?  I think the first Roots is more frustrating and infuriating.  There was a scene where the Vic Morrow's overseer, the Reynolds/Waller brothers and Reynolds' wife were debating whether slaves had the capacity for learning, thought and feeling that made me so angry I had to turn it off.

These were just a few of the lame excuses the slave owners made for why it was okay for them to have slaves.  The whole "we are doing it for their own good" "they are better off with us looking after them" "we are better, they are inferior, this is the way it's supposed to be" blah blah blah idiotic crap that was used to try and justify slavery.  The reality was it was greed.  It's the same thing people have been doing for centuries.  A group of elites enjoys wealth and a comfortable lifestyle at the expense of another group.

[Amethyst]

On 6/6/2016 at 7:37 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Watching Episode 4 again now (my Mom wanted to see it), one thing that stood out to me that I didn't mention before, is that Tom's misdirected anger towards Chicken George for "doing something foolish to get himself sold away", although WRONG and misguided seemed VERY VERY REAL. (there is nothing George could have done, he went away screaming and crying, he warned Tom Lea not to make those bets etc). At the end of the day, although Tom is certainly a man in his culture (age wise), when Chicken George was sent to England he was a boy, and he saw the pain and heartache that caused his Mother, Grandmother and siblings. He had to be angry at SOMEONE, being angry at Chicken George who wasn't there, was a hell of a lot easier than being mad at the system of slavery which he was still entrenched, by believing he could protect his family from the same thing by being better/smarter etc gave him a bit of mental power in a world where he was powerless. As Chicken George tells him when he comes home "there's no right way to be a slave".

Very true.  For me, that scene confirms how similar Chicken George and Tom are.  It mirrors one with Chicken George and Kizzy, years earlier.  CG figured the cockfighting profits would be enough to buy the family's way off of Tom Lea's farm.  Kizzy knew better.  Chicken George got angry when Kizzy brought up how her father Kunta Kinte had struggled with his own pride, and CG snapped that he would be better than some broke-down slave with half a foot, iirc.  That's when Kizzy slapped him.  

Years later, Tom tells his mother Matilda that he'll be better than his own father, who was "foolish enough to get himself sold away."  

1.  Both men believe that if they behave the "right way" and play by their Massa's rules, then their families will be spared some of the atrocities that other slaves faced, and may even prosper in the end because of it. 

2. Both are disrespectful to their predecessors because they think they know better.  And sadly, they learn how wrong they are.  

But on a positive note, Chicken George returns to the states much wiser, and tries to teach the lessons of his grandfather to his own children.  Tom realizes that his father wasn't all talk, and CG has endured painful sacrifices of his own.

[Snarklepuss]

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but let me preface it by saying that I was very happy to see that Roots had been remade and really wanted to watch it.  I am about a year or so younger than LeVar Burton and watched the first version when it originally aired, which I saw again last year and realized how dated it was.  So I was all primed for a remake.  I am not a person that wants to see history whitewashed or sanitized and I think some stories need to be told no matter how bad they are.  All that said, I tried very hard to make myself watch this but it was just TOO graphic, TOO violent, TOO loud and TOO horrible ALL THE TIME.  I forced myself to sit through hours and hours of Nazi and WWII documentaries depicting all manner of very real violence and death, so I am no lightweight, but even I have my limits.  Mr. Snarkle watched this Roots and said it was "really good" but agreed that it was just non-stop wall to wall misery.  Far be it from me to insinuate that there wasn't a lot of misery involved in slavery but I just can't believe it couldn't have been toned down just a little bit without sacrificing realism. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

It's odd to me, how a period piece, or a show/series/mini-series/movie can be "dated." 

And I went scrolling to see who was in original-aside from the ones I clearly remember and I find it weird that the remake changed the names of the Reynolds, to Waller. That Chuck Connors's character was Tom Moore, not Lea, which is the name they gave Jonathan Rhys Myers. And a few other name changes.

And I knew I wasn't misremembering!  A wee Todd Bridges was in the original, if only for one scene. I think at one point I was mixing up who was in what, between original Roots and North and South.

[Snarklepuss]

6 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It's odd to me, how a period piece, or a show/series/mini-series/movie can be "dated."

A LeVar Burton quote from this article:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/roots-cast-reveals-challenges-remaking-iconic-miniseries/story?id=39410986

Quote

"There was a whole new generation of kids out there for whom the original was old and was dated," Burton said. "In order for them to get the power of the story, it had to be retold in a language that they could understand… I think that's the value of storytelling. It helps gives us a context for who we are, why we're here and what we're doing."

I'm far from being a kid but after seeing the original again last year I even felt it was dated.  It felt like "Gunsmoke" meets "Little House on the Prairie".   It didn't feel that way to me when I first saw it. 

[ClareWalks]

8 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

A LeVar Burton quote from this article:

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/roots-cast-reveals-challenges-remaking-iconic-miniseries/story?id=39410986

I'm far from being a kid but after seeing the original again last year I even felt it was dated.  It felt like "Gunsmoke" meets "Little House on the Prairie".   It didn't feel that way to me when I first saw it. 

LOL you nailed it. The style of filming was dated, at the very least. It also had these weird "humorous" moments that were like a Brady Bunch episode or something. I still enjoy it, of course, but you can see that it was a product of its time.

[truelovekiss]

On 6/6/2016 at 9:38 AM, Stacey1014 said:

 

I didn't think about African medicine  I almost wondered if Patricia's fertility issues were really Tom's issues.

That seems very likely. They knew so little about fertility at that point anyway, and I'm going out on a limb and assuming that when a woman was "barren," it was generally assumed something was wrong with her and never the man.

[truelovekiss]

On 6/6/2016 at 8:03 AM, junemeatcleaver said:

I remember from the book Kunta was a virgin until he married Belle at 40-something

Semi-related, but I was struck by how he turned down that girl who came onto him in the first episode, because he didn't want to risk getting her pregnant and his child being a slave. I think he fell in love with Belle and that all changed, but I was so sad for him, knowing how much he valued family, that he was ready to push everyone away and give up on having a family because he couldn't give them a good life.

[truelovekiss]

Like other posters, I have to agree that Chicken George killing Frederick in front of his parents and then happily leaving with his family was so unrealistic it took me right out of the story. Hell, when Kizzy was being sold and Kunta punched a guy, I  thought that realistically, that probably would have been it for Kunta Kinte. Yeah, Frederick was threatening Tom, but I don't even remember if he laid his hands on him? I don't care how much the old man liked Tom, how much the old lady liked Matilda or how big of a pain in the ass Freddie was. That was a crazy  Hollywood plot, and while a vengeful, TV enthusiast part of me was happy that Jackass died at George's hands, the better part of me was annoyed that they would do something like build the  slave ship from scratch for accuracy, but allow themselves to be derailed because they thought viewers would value revenge on one bad guy over accuracy. I thought it kind of wrecked the feel of the ending.

Edited June 13, 2016 by truelovekiss

[Scarlett45]

6 hours ago, truelovekiss said:

Like other posters, I have to agree that Chicken George killing Frederick in front of his parents and then happily leaving with his family was so unrealistic it took me right out of the story. Hell, when Kizzy was being sold and Kunta punched a guy, I  thought that realistically, that probably would have been it for Kunta Kinte. Yeah, Frederick was threatening Tom, but I don't even remember if he laid his hands on him? I don't care how much the old man liked Tom, how much the old lady liked Matilda or how big of a pain in the ass Freddie was. That was a crazy  Hollywood plot, and while a vengeful, TV enthusiast part of me was happy that Jackass died at George's hands, the better part of me was annoyed that they would do something like build the  slave ship from scratch for accuracy, but allow themselves to be derailed because they thought viewers would value revenge on one bad guy over accuracy. I thought it kind of wrecked the feel of the ending.

The only way I could fanwank that Geogre could leave the farm after killing Frederick is that it was a Sunday and there were no other white persons on the plantation- that Frederk's parents feared the retaliation of all of the other freedman on the plantation if they attempted to arrest George. It wasn't as if there were telephones where they could call the police. In that instance he would've had to shoot George on sight or had the help of others to restrain him. But it is absolutely a stretch. 

As far as Kizzy killing one of the slave brokers that took her, that would've problably lead to her hanging but I speculated that the other guy wanted his money and now he wouldn't have to split it.....good old fashioned greed. 

Mad far as an historical piece being "dated" you can usually tell when historical pieces were made based on subtle things like hairstyles (look at how many westerns had 1960s hair!) or phrasing, themes etc. I had no problem with them remaking the miniseries for modern audience. 

7 hours ago, truelovekiss said:

Semi-related, but I was struck by how he turned down that girl who came onto him in the first episode, because he didn't want to risk getting her pregnant and his child being a slave. I think he fell in love with Belle and that all changed, but I was so sad for him, knowing how much he valued family, that he was ready to push everyone away and give up on having a family because he couldn't give them a good life.

I actually didn't like that part. It seemed unrealistic to me that a woman in her position was offering herself sexually to a man she didn't know (he was barely speaking English with his fellow slaves at this point, keeping himself distant). I am not insinuating that slaves didn't have energy or capacity for relationships etc but it just seemed so random. She may have thought he was attractive (I sure did), but unless she was assigned to "watch him" the way fiddler was I didn't understand. If the master wanted to "breed her" there were other men for her to choose from in an effort to get pregnant......(assuming she had a choice)...... Or maybe I'm just a hater because that man was so hot I am jealous I couldn't proposition him. 

[Swansong]

Quote

Hell, when Kizzy was being sold and Kunta punched a guy, I  thought that realistically, that probably would have been it for Kunta Kinte. 

I suspect killing someone elses 'property' because you were mad would probably be more trouble than it was worth though especially financially. I assume that's why Kunte was hobbled when he kept running away instead of being outright killed because a dead slave has no value. It reminds me of the scene where that slave woman died giving birth in the field and Waller was upset, not because she'd been treated so horribly, but because her death cost him money and then said he was taking the money out of his overseers pay check. I assume anyone who killed a slave without the blessing of the slave owner would also be risking a significant financial loss. 

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Swansong said:

I suspect killing someone elses 'property' because you were mad would probably be more trouble than it was worth though especially financially. I assume that's why Kunte was hobbled when he kept running away instead of being outright killed because a dead slave has no value. It reminds me of the scene where that slave woman died giving birth in the field and Waller was upset, not because she'd been treated so horribly, but because her death cost him money and then said he was taking the money out of his overseers pay check. I assume anyone who killed a slave without the blessing of the slave owner would also be risking a significant financial loss. 

Especially in an instance like that, whipping Kunta would've been a more effective punishment. Giving him a chance to "calm down" and accept his punishment is easier and more effective than killing him for attacking a poor slave broker he'd never see again. 

[truelovekiss]

2 hours ago, Swansong said:

I suspect killing someone elses 'property' because you were mad would probably be more trouble than it was worth though especially financially. I assume that's why Kunte was hobbled when he kept running away instead of being outright killed because a dead slave has no value. It reminds me of the scene where that slave woman died giving birth in the field and Waller was upset, not because she'd been treated so horribly, but because her death cost him money and then said he was taking the money out of his overseers pay check. I assume anyone who killed a slave without the blessing of the slave owner would also be risking a significant financial loss. 

True, but I would think that they couldn't let that go. It's an example setting thing. Like how on the slave ship, Kunta pretty much staged that rebellion and got nothing, because he was too valuable. I would just think that they would make an example of slaves that rebelled or retaliated. But I guess he probably got in a lot of trouble, we just didn't see because we focused on Kizzy from that point on.

[TV Anonymous]

On the last episode, how was it that Chicken George was owned by a Briton? I thought slavery was illegal in Britain since 1778 and formally and officially abolished in 1833?

[ZaldamoWilder]

I was 9 when the original series aired in America but didn't see it until I was 11 because we were in England and it didn't reach British tv until 1979.  I remember it being as riveting then and there as it must've been in the U.S.  so much so that I shushed my Aunt who, during the last moments of one of the episodes, was trying to tell me that my mom had just delivered the baby sister I'd been asking for because, bad timing and no I don't want to go to the hospital to see her.

On 6/1/2016 at 9:35 PM, mightysparrow said:

I agree that it's unbelievable that Kunte would be able to get away with killing all the White men he's killed.  I understand that they want to please a modern audience but I think it's important to emphasize the state of terror that slaves lived under.  If a slave was even suspected of having harmed a White man, that slave would have been tortured and then set on fire.  I don't think that the slaves were weak because they didn't fight back.  What were they supposed to do?  There was no place for them to go, no-one to turn to.  They didn't even own themselves.  The fact that they survived is amazing.  But they didn't ONLY survive.  They built America and created American culture.  Remove African-Americans from America and it ceases to exist.

It was hard watching Kizzie beg her master not to rape her in front of her son.  It just enforces that slave masters were the worst human beings ever.

Edited to add:  I wish we had a chance to know how Kizzie felt about teaching the wife of her rapist to read.  Kizzie was risking her life to help that woman (it was death for a slave to learn how to read) and what did she get out it.  Her mistress couldn't or wouldn't even keep her husband from raping Kizzie.

I promise you, I'm going to find a way to get all of this on the back of a tshirt.  It brought real tears to my eyes.

On 6/2/2016 at 9:43 PM, DearEvette said:

Ha!  I'll hop right on the shallow bus with you.  There was a point when the actor who plays George smiled right into the camera and I felt like I was looking at the sun.  Boy is cute as hell.  And then the actor who played the free man, what a tall, dark bite of chocolate!

Sorry.  Hopping off the bus now.

I also agree on the acting.  Everyone is doing a great job.  Anika Noni Rose put some bass in her voice for Kizzy.  She had me riveted.  I've always liked her just fine, but for me seeing her in this role is like me with Bey &  Lemonade.  it was a revelation and I gained new respect for her.  I hope this raises her profile a bit. I would love to see her more.

Ya'll gone need to put that bus in reverse and pick me up.  When Marcellus took his hat off and introduced himself to Kizzy, oh God, my whole world shut down.  He's impossibly beautiful.  And he wants to help me with this here plate of cornbread? ::swoon::

On 6/3/2016 at 1:32 AM, voiceover said:

I mourn the loss of two of my favorite moments from the original: 

1. An aged Kizzy spits in the cup of an ancient Missy ( who claims not to recall ever knowing her)...I was SO SURE we were being set up for that when Missy grinned at Kizzy's adding the bitter leaf to the snotty girl's lemonade.  

2. Kunta weeping over Fiddler, dead of old age and life, crying, "You free now, Fiddler! How it feel?"  I want to know which was the book version.  And if it was the original, then why didn't they keep it??

Lovely coda.  Pretty much how a writer's imagination takes him.  Glad I watched.

Can I mourn with you.  I was waiting for the spit in the lemonade, I remember cheering loudly at what would've ordinarily disgusted me.   

How it feel?  Awww man.  I know there wasn't room for everything but a little less revenge and a little more screenplay accuracy would've gone a long way.

On 6/3/2016 at 8:01 PM, mightysparrow said:

I've never seen 'Django Unchained' and don't intend to but I understand what is meant by the 'Django' effect.  The assumption that the viewers are children that won't appreciate a truthful story but prefer to see one where the slaves are action heroes.  The truth is that a Black man or woman risked their life if they raised their voices to a White man/woman, much less raised a hand.  I would have preferred that a story that told a new audience the horror and violence of life as a slave.  There was a lot of rape but very little of how slave women survived repeated rapes.  I would have liked to see a conversation between Tom and his wife after her gang rape.  How does a man deal with the fact that he can't protect his wife, mother, daughter, sisters.  That he might have to help raise the child that is a result of rape.  The Snoop Doggs might not want to see it but I do. Those people are my ancestors and I'm here because they endured and survived the unspeakable.

Even today, there seem to be people are African descent who feel shame because their ancestors were slaves.  That makes me sad.  Descendants of Holocaust survivors don't feel shame.  Why should descendants of the survivors of a 300 year holocaust feel shame?

I think the producers made a mistake in trying to pack too much into the show.  Anna Paquin and Mekhi Phifer were good but their story was borderline absurd.  The brave men and women who risked their lives as Union spies deserved more than that. 

Like so many, I found it impossible to believe that George would get away with killing Fredrick right in front of his parents.  There's no way George and his family would have made it off the property before he and his sons were brutally murdered and all of the women repeatedly raped.  The only way I could justify Fredrick's killing was that his parents knew what an asshole their son was and were glad to be rid of him.

With all it's flaws (and there were a lot of them), I'm glad I watched this version of 'Roots'.  The cast was outstanding with so many amazing performances.  I wept at the end to see Alex Haley greeting his ancestors.  Apparently Haley made up a lot of his story.  Well, that's what happens when you steal a people's history from them.  But Haley gave many of us a history that we could call our own.  He gave us something to hold on to and to give us pride.  I'll always be grateful to him for that.

Username fits.     YOU. BETTER. TEACH.

[qtpye]

On 5/31/2016 at 1:02 PM, nodorothyparker said:

If you read much period writing over the last several centuries especially here in America, you can see that slavery and our policies toward the native population were highly dependent on the idea that they weren't human the same way whites and in particular white Christians were.  They were at best some form of subhumans who needed to be managed and corrected into their proper roles and at worst were little different than livestock to be used, sold, or put down as it best suited their superiors' purposes.  Scientific writing at the time highlighted supposed differences in brain size and intelligence while Bible verses that seemed to sanction slave and master roles bolstered thinking that since neither Native Americans or mostly Muslim Africans were Christian what they were doing was sanctioned by God and they were in fact doing them a solid by forcing them to give up their pagan cultures.  Once you've completely denied the humanity of a population, a lot of things become possible for your mind to accept.

Some of it makes for some really horrifyingly fascinating reading.

Heck, the English did this to the Irish.  White Americans became unified, because there was a far different "other" to pick on.  All of a sudden if you or your descendants were from northern Europe, you were of a superior race.

On 5/31/2016 at 0:07 PM, Avaleigh said:

Yeah, I'm glad I'm not the only one who side eyed that. It made me think about how the O'Haras in Gone with the Wind had such contempt for their overseer Jonas Wilkerson and his family, save Scarlett's mother who seemed to pity them.

I'm also reminded of the hateful character of Bob Ewell from To Kill a Mockingbird. I realize this story took place well after the end of slavery but he still came to mind because he's right at the bottom of white society and isn't respected, but if he scrubs himself up extra clean, since he isn't a [insert profanity], suddenly his word is treated like gospel from the people who usually look down on him even when the truth is obvious. 

On this show the owners are always going to side with the overseer against their slaves but I'm positive that they'd quickly side eye their overseer and would magically have a more accurate gauge of his character if he had something negative to say about some aristocratic white character. IMO, in that sort of situation, I think they'd be a lot more quick to see him for the cruel asshole that he is.

What's interesting to me about overseers is that no aristocratic white person would ever have wanted that job and to me on some level, whether they want to acknowledge it or not, it's because they know that overseers have to be monsters in order to get the job done and the rich whites want to tell themselves that they're above that sort of cruelty and that manner of getting their hands dirty. It goes against the very word gentleman that so many of these aristocratic southerners were hung up on. I also doubt these men considered the rape of slave women to be rape.

It's fascinating what psychological hoop jumping has to be made to keep the institution of slavery running. It requires both sides to play a sick game where both are fighting to survive. I say both because the white people who were born into the system are essentially told that if they don't take a firm line that they'll end up getting their throat cut one day. It seems like it would take an exceptionally strong character to stand against the majority when the fucking law (gah!) is on the side of the majority. 

It's so devastating to process just how many lives were ruined under this system. I can't imagine a life where safety, beauty, kindness, humor, hope, selflessness, and loyalty are so scarce that they're basically like alien concepts.

The barbarity of slavery has no end.  Slavery, also hurt poor whites, as it took away the labor jobs that they needed to feed their families.

The irony is, it is the descendants of some of the poor whites that now join the Klan and talk about the good "ole" days.  This was a feudal system economy that was brutal to all those that were not on top (and very few whites were rich plantation owners).  I think, Gone With the Wind is taken as fact and not a romanticized version of life from the view of a Southern Aristocrat.   It is also interesting to note how the plantation owners look at the "poor whites" in that book.

Edited June 21, 2016 by qtpye

[Scarlett45]

So does anyone else agree it's a TRAVESTY that Annika Noni Rose wasn't nominated for an Emmy in the "Best Actress in a MiniSeries" category?!!!

However the program was nominated for Makeup Artistry (Non Prostetic....forgive my misspelling) and Costumes. The certainly deserve the win for makeup. 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Scarlett45