S03.E05: Hakeldama

[jay741982]

I don't see Clarke easily trusting Lexa. She's just been forced into situations where she has to work with Lexa and they've regained some trust as a result. Considering Clarke's had the threat of the Ice Nation hanging over her head, I think it's understandable that she made the decisions that she.did.

Clark making googly eyes at her says she trusts her in my eyes

[Izeinwinter]

They're in postapocalyptic USA. Finding enough firearms isn't going to be a problem. The grounders didn't use guns not because they can't find any but because mount weather blew anyone that did up. No mount weather, no threat maintaining the taboo any longer. Getting any guns they know where to find back into usable order, and organizing a proper rifle division that is a bit more of a tall order. But not that tall, either. Honestly, however, I suspect Lexa will just flat out escalate and show up with cannon. Because she's not going to get peace unless she shows up with a stick that compells unconditional surrender. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Izeinwinter

[stealinghome]

Clark making googly eyes at her says she trusts her in my eyes

But that's what makes the relationship so delicious. The googly eyes set against the lack of trust and wariness and bitterness!

[quarks]

Adding to the chorus of people not thrilled with the way The 100 seems to be unraveling all of Bellamy's character development from last season. It does feel as if they're trying to sabotage the character - although I don't think this has anything to do with ship wars or going after Bellarke fans in favor of Clexa fans, as has been suggested. I think The 100 is trying to make a point about U.S. politics and using Bellamy to do so, which isn't necessarily all that much better.  

 

It's failing for me for two reasons: one, apart from Bellamy's speech to Clarke, the first half of which I liked because it could be interpreted as either whining or justified (I like scenes that can be interpreted in more than one way) I haven't seen enough on the show this season to understand why a guy who last season argued against killing people until the very last possible second this season was all, huh, so you just want me to get the guns, right? Got it.  Or, for that matter, why a guy who has resisted authority for two seasons is now following Pike. We got one scene where Bellamy seemed to want Kane's approval, and the speech to Clarke, but neither has been enough, for me at least. I don't think it helps that the girlfriend character was barely on screen and although I liked her, as far as it went, and it seemed like Bellamy liked her, I didn't have enough time to get invested in that relationship.  We did seem to see that Bellamy had come to terms with the people he had killed, which in retrospect I guess was the setup for saying that he'd be ok with killing still more people, but we didn't really get much about his opinions/thoughts about it. Jasper and Monty, sure, but not Bellamy. I guess we also got a hint that Bellamy was personally ticked off that a woman he helped save from Mount Weather last year turned around and betrayed him, but we didn't really see that on screen either, so that's mostly me fanwanking. And if I have to fanwank a character's motivations, that's generally a sign that something's missing from the show.

 

But the main reason it's failing for me is that this show has gone out of its way to show Bellamy as above all, pragmatic and thinking about what will keep him and his sister and friends safe.  And that's where this falls short for me, because The 100 has also established that:

 

1. Bellamy knows the Grounders believe in blood for blood. He knows they will want revenge for this.

 

2. Bellamy knows that the Grounders have a larger army, know the terrain, and are a warrior culture. He knows that at the moment, the only advantage that Arkadia has is superior weapons/technology, and that a source for a lot of that just got blown up. And he knows, because he was part of this, that a group with superior weapons/technology can be taken down by the smaller, less armed group. This just happened a few months ago.

 

3. Bellamy knows that the Grounders are not unified or in agreement, and that there's a good chance that, left on their own, they'll rip themselves apart. 

 

4. Bellamy knows that his sister identifies herself as a Grounder right now, and that continuing to create this "Grounders are dangerous" idea puts her in more danger. He even said that her self-identity as a Grounder was dangerous.

 

5. Bellamy knew that Clarke was in the Grounder city, and that there was a very good chance that the Grounders would kill Clarke in retaliation for this, especially since he didn't know that Lexa had sworn fealty to Clarke. (And in any case, Lexa was seriously into Clarke last season and still betrayed her on the basis of what was good for the Grounders, so that's not really a sure thing.) We just saw Bellamy disguise himself as a Grounder and go running after Clarke, and I'm expected to believe that just a couple of episodes later, he's willing to endanger her just because she refused to go back to Arkadia with him?  Not buying it, The 100. Maybe if this was just endangering Clarke, or just endangering Octavia, but not both. 

 

So yeah, I'm not buying the turnaround, and I'm not buying that Bellamy would be so willing to risk the consequences of this. Sure, yes, last season Clarke persuaded the Grounders to temporarily put aside their revenge and team up, but that resulted in the Grounders betraying them after all, and I don't think that Bellamy has seen anything that would convince him that the Grounders wouldn't respond violently to this.

 

I'm also not exactly thrilled that The 100 seems, at least so far, to be glossing over Abby's part in this - it was her decision to go back to Mount Weather that directly led to the Grounders and that one Mount Weather guy deciding to destroy Mount Weather, which convinced Pike that the Grounders were evil, which led to this. Or, for that matter, that The 100 hasn't brought up that Kane could have contacted Indra through those secret radios and warned her that Arkadia had just had an election that didn't bode well for them and that the Grounder army might want to put up some extra guards or something. None of that excuses Bellamy at all, but it's kinda distressing that after a season of showing that everyone was at fault, the show seems to be focusing blame Bellamy and Pike and, to an extent, Clarke in Bellamy's speech.

 

But in terms of redemption - Clarke killed her boyfriend, was willing to let Octavia be bombed for strategic reasons, and later helped kill everyone in Mount Weather, including innocent kids. Monty figured out how to kill those kids. Jasper's not wrong about them. Abby agreed to send her own daughter down to a planet which, for all she knew at the time, was still filled with deadly radiation.  For that matter, Abby, Kane and Jaha sent 100 kids down to a place which, for all they knew, was deadly, without any backup radios. Lexa massively betrayed Clarke. Murphy was a happy little sociopath (still is). Nathan participated in some crap stuff early on.  So why do all of them still have the chance to come back from all of this, but not Bellamy?  He's already started - sorta - with his "We went too far" and with helping prevent the situation in Abby's hospital from getting too deadly. It's not much, I admit, but it's something.

 

Really hoping that Lexa's decision for try for peace won't backfire on her.  After she had that awesome moment with the Ice Queen and Roan, too.

[jay741982]

Adding to the chorus of people not thrilled with the way The 100 seems to be unraveling all of Bellamy's character development from last season. It does feel as if they're trying to sabotage the character - although I don't think this has anything to do with ship wars or going after Bellarke fans in favor of Clexa fans, as has been suggested. I think The 100 is trying to make a point about U.S. politics and using Bellamy to do so, which isn't necessarily all that much better.  

 

It's failing for me for two reasons: one, apart from Bellamy's speech to Clarke, the first half of which I liked because it could be interpreted as either whining or justified (I like scenes that can be interpreted in more than one way) I haven't seen enough on the show this season to understand why a guy who last season argued against killing people until the very last possible second this season was all, huh, so you just want me to get the guns, right? Got it.  Or, for that matter, why a guy who has resisted authority for two seasons is now following Pike. We got one scene where Bellamy seemed to want Kane's approval, and the speech to Clarke, but neither has been enough, for me at least. I don't think it helps that the girlfriend character was barely on screen and although I liked her, as far as it went, and it seemed like Bellamy liked her, I didn't have enough time to get invested in that relationship.  We did seem to see that Bellamy had come to terms with the people he had killed, which in retrospect I guess was the setup for saying that he'd be ok with killing still more people, but we didn't really get much about his opinions/thoughts about it. Jasper and Monty, sure, but not Bellamy. I guess we also got a hint that Bellamy was personally ticked off that a woman he helped save from Mount Weather last year turned around and betrayed him, but we didn't really see that on screen either, so that's mostly me fanwanking. And if I have to fanwank a character's motivations, that's generally a sign that something's missing from the show.

 

But the main reason it's failing for me is that this show has gone out of its way to show Bellamy as above all, pragmatic and thinking about what will keep him and his sister and friends safe.  And that's where this falls short for me, because The 100 has also established that:

 

1. Bellamy knows the Grounders believe in blood for blood. He knows they will want revenge for this.

 

2. Bellamy knows that the Grounders have a larger army, know the terrain, and are a warrior culture. He knows that at the moment, the only advantage that Arkadia has is superior weapons/technology, and that a source for a lot of that just got blown up. And he knows, because he was part of this, that a group with superior weapons/technology can be taken down by the smaller, less armed group. This just happened a few months ago.

 

3. Bellamy knows that the Grounders are not unified or in agreement, and that there's a good chance that, left on their own, they'll rip themselves apart. 

 

4. Bellamy knows that his sister identifies herself as a Grounder right now, and that continuing to create this "Grounders are dangerous" idea puts her in more danger. He even said that her self-identity as a Grounder was dangerous.

 

5. Bellamy knew that Clarke was in the Grounder city, and that there was a very good chance that the Grounders would kill Clarke in retaliation for this, especially since he didn't know that Lexa had sworn fealty to Clarke. (And in any case, Lexa was seriously into Clarke last season and still betrayed her on the basis of what was good for the Grounders, so that's not really a sure thing.) We just saw Bellamy disguise himself as a Grounder and go running after Clarke, and I'm expected to believe that just a couple of episodes later, he's willing to endanger her just because she refused to go back to Arkadia with him?  Not buying it, The 100. Maybe if this was just endangering Clarke, or just endangering Octavia, but not both. 

 

So yeah, I'm not buying the turnaround, and I'm not buying that Bellamy would be so willing to risk the consequences of this. Sure, yes, last season Clarke persuaded the Grounders to temporarily put aside their revenge and team up, but that resulted in the Grounders betraying them after all, and I don't think that Bellamy has seen anything that would convince him that the Grounders wouldn't respond violently to this.

 

I'm also not exactly thrilled that The 100 seems, at least so far, to be glossing over Abby's part in this - it was her decision to go back to Mount Weather that directly led to the Grounders and that one Mount Weather guy deciding to destroy Mount Weather, which convinced Pike that the Grounders were evil, which led to this. Or, for that matter, that The 100 hasn't brought up that Kane could have contacted Indra through those secret radios and warned her that Arkadia had just had an election that didn't bode well for them and that the Grounder army might want to put up some extra guards or something. None of that excuses Bellamy at all, but it's kinda distressing that after a season of showing that everyone was at fault, the show seems to be focusing blame Bellamy and Pike and, to an extent, Clarke in Bellamy's speech.

 

But in terms of redemption - Clarke killed her boyfriend, was willing to let Octavia be bombed for strategic reasons, and later helped kill everyone in Mount Weather, including innocent kids. Monty figured out how to kill those kids. Jasper's not wrong about them. Abby agreed to send her own daughter down to a planet which, for all she knew at the time, was still filled with deadly radiation.  For that matter, Abby, Kane and Jaha sent 100 kids down to a place which, for all they knew, was deadly, without any backup radios. Lexa massively betrayed Clarke. Murphy was a happy little sociopath (still is). Nathan participated in some crap stuff early on.  So why do all of them still have the chance to come back from all of this, but not Bellamy?  He's already started - sorta - with his "We went too far" and with helping prevent the situation in Abby's hospital from getting too deadly. It's not much, I admit, but it's something.

 

Really hoping that Lexa's decision for try for peace won't backfire on her.  After she had that awesome moment with the Ice Queen and Roan, too.

Yes THANK YOU Bellamy is getting raked over the coals yet Clarke Lexa and others are getting defended I just don't get it. Like I said it's nuts that Clarke even likes or Trusts Lexa after what she pulled last season to a woman she says she has feelings for! A lot of these characters have done bad things

[LadyPenelope]

Ok, here I go, about to try to justify mass murder.

 

While we can all agree that killing all those people was wrong, I can sort of see where Bellamy is coming from. There is xenophobia to an extent (and certainly with Pike) but the line of thinking isn't 'they are different to us and therefore can't be trusted', but 'they have proven over and over again that they can't be trusted'. Not all Grounders are a monolith, obviously, but actually the army outside the gates sort of is - whatever the individuals might believe, they answer to Indra, and Indra answers to Lexa. Indra might be an ally, and might have grown closer to some of the Arkers, but that didn't stop her abandoning them all at MW on Lexa's command, and it certainly wouldn't stop her killing them all if she was ordered to do so. As for Lexa, although we can see that she regrets her decision at MW and is genuinely committed to protecting Clarke and her people, nobody else has witnessed that. As far as Bellamy and co. are concerned, last time they had an alliance with Lexa, she abandoned them all to die. And now there is a 300 strong army outside the gates with only Lexa's word that they are there to protect and not to attack. And with all the infighting going on, there is a pretty strong chance that Lexa could a) decide that keeping peace between the 12 clans is worth sacrificing Arkadia for, and let it be taken (the exact same decision she made just three months ago) or b) be killed or deposed and replaced by a new commander whose first act would be to destroy the camp. Bellamy has just had a sharp reminder that he can't trust anyone with Echo's betrayal, and now they are all supposed to sit there and rely on the goodwill of a woman who has already proven herself untrustworthy. While killing an entire army in their sleep is undeniably vile, if Indra gets the order to kill everyone at Arkadia, she's hardly going to wait until they can properly arm themselves for a fair fight. I am not condoning what they did, but I can certainly understand the reasoning behind it.

 

And for what it's worth, I liked the conversation this episode between Bellamy and Clarke - it gave us an insight into his thoughts and decision making process (if you can call it that when it's Bellamy!) that was sorely lacking in the previous episode. I don't see that he is blaming Clarke for what happened - I think he was furious with her already, and her suddenly turning up to give him orders just pushed it over the edge. I love Clarke (actually I love everyone - except maybe Jaha) but she abandoned her people when she left at the end of last season. Yeah, she was upset and needed time, yadda yadda, but she wasn't the only one responsible for MW. Monty and Bellamy were equally responsible, and they had both spent time in MW, knew the people, and were working with them. In the first season, Bellamy tries to go off on his own to sulk or cry or whatever, and Clarke asks him to stay because she needs him. She tells him not to go into MW and he agrees, then she changes her mind and tells him he has to go and he agrees. She says jump, he asks how high. But then when roles are reversed and she's the one who wants to leave, and he asks her to stay - she won't. He risks his life to bring her back, gets stabbed in the leg and still has to be physically stopped from going after her, and then when he finally gets to her, she's all 'thanks but no thanks'. I'm not surprised he's pissed off.

 

Sorry - went on a bit of a rant. I definitely think Bellamy is in the wrong here (as I think the show wants us to) but disagree that he is now irredeemable... or at least no more so than any of the other characters. With the exception of Raven, who is a darling.

 

 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Lots of the characters have done some horrible things, sure, but that's hardly a reason to redeem each and every last one of them. If for nothing else then because the atrocities committed by the important characters would lose meaning if we know there is no risk of the perpetrator suffering any serious consequences. Personally, I didn't like Finn's sudden turn to capability to go on a murderous spree but I loved that he faced the music in the end. Plus, they would have to really work extra hard to convince us that the Grounders from the 12 clans would ever be willing to give Bellamy and the rest of the participants in the treacherous attack a second chance. It would feel very forced.

 

 

As far as Bellamy and co. are concerned, last time they had an alliance with Lexa, she abandoned them all to die.

 

That's not entirely true, many of the Arkers were outside Mt. Weather at the time and in no immediate danger.

 

 

And now there is a 300 strong army outside the gates with only Lexa's word that they are there to protect and not to attack. And with all the infighting going on, there is a pretty strong chance that Lexa could a) decide that keeping peace between the 12 clans is worth sacrificing Arkadia for, and let it be taken (the exact same decision she made just three months ago) or b) be killed or deposed and replaced by a new commander whose first act would be to destroy the camp. Bellamy has just had a sharp reminder that he can't trust anyone with Echo's betrayal, and now they are all supposed to sit there and rely on the goodwill of a woman who has already proven herself untrustworthy.

 

It's not like Indra's 300 could have attacked and killed all the Arkadians even if Lexa were plotting a preemptive strike. Also, Bellamy had just sneaked into Lexa's capital killing a few guards along the way, she let him go without so much as an admonition and his reaction is "she probably plots to kill us all, these bastards never show mercy"?

 

 

There is xenophobia to an extent (and certainly with Pike) but the line of thinking isn't 'they are different to us and therefore can't be trusted', but 'they have proven over and over again that they can't be trusted'.

 

Which is still xenophobia unless all the Grounders Bellamy knows have behaved treacherously. Thinking that Nyco or Lincoln can't be trusted because Lexa's or the Ice Nation's actions is xenophobia. What would Bellamy think if Lexa were to decide to kill Clarke and Octavia because of what he and Pike did - that it is justified?

[LadyPenelope]

If for nothing else then because the atrocities committed by the important characters would lose meaning if we know there is no risk of the perpetrator suffering any serious consequences. Personally, I didn't like Finn's sudden turn to capability to go on a murderous spree but I loved that he faced the music in the end.

 

See, I could write a whole separate essay on Finn and why I felt for him - his death was so well written but I never felt he 'had' to die in order for me to enjoy the show - he was just a kid with severe PTSD, forced into fighting a war and pushed to breaking point. Still a terrible, unjustifiable thing, but I think understandable.

 

It's not like Indra's 300 could have attacked and killed all the Arkadians even if Lexa were plotting a preemptive strike. Also, Bellamy had just sneaked into Lexa's capital killing a few guards along the way, she let him go without so much as an admonition and his reaction is "she probably plots to kill us all, these bastards never show mercy"?

 

Agree to disagree re: the first point - even with guns, if Pike could wipe out an army with 10 men, I'm pretty sure Indra could very well have taken out Arkadia, or at least made a good attempt. And I don't think even Bellamy thinks that Lexa is out to get the Arkadians just for the hell of it. It isn't about not showing mercy - it's about the fact that there are plenty of scenarios where the most rational choice for Lexa might be to let the Arkadians die. As I said - if it came down to all of the 12 clans rebelling against her and threatening to go to war, destroying the peace she had created, because they felt so strongly about her making peace with Arkadia? I don't think anyone could blame her for putting her own people first and sacrificing the few for the sake of the many. She's done it before. And even last episode there was an extremely good chance of her losing her position of commander, at which point the new heda's first act will presumably be to mobilize that army.

 

Which is still xenophobia unless all the Grounders Bellamy knows have behaved treacherously. Thinking that Nyco or Lincoln can't be trusted because Lexa's or the Ice Nation's actions is xenophobia.

 

Well, Bellamy didn't seem to hold anything against Lincoln or Nyco. Pike may have the attitude that all Grounders are evil, but I don't think he needs to feel that way in order to feel that the army (again, under Lexa's sole command) is a threat. You don't have to assume they are all evil, or untrustworthy, or anything else - it doesn't matter what the individuals are like personally, because they are not acting as individuals, they are an army. In war, individual soldiers don't get to make choices - they follow orders. Every single one of the 300 could be trustworthy, wonderful human beings, but that fact won't save anyone once they are given the order to kill the Arkadians.

 

Just an FYI - I feel that I should mention again here that obviously I don't think killing 300 people in their sleep was the right move for anyone. Just trying to explain the logic behind it, as I see it. Not... you know... pro genocide or anything.

 

Also, while I'm playing devil's advocate, I've read a few times that Bellamy was handing Clarke over to Pike to be killed, which is just not true. She was sneaking in and out of camp so she wouldn't be caught and captured - I think Pike is genuinely fond of her and certainly not about to put a bullet in her head just for fraternizing with Grounders (otherwise he would have shot Octavia already). Pretty sure Bellamy's plan - if it can be called that - was to have her locked up so she couldn't go back to Polis, hence him saying something along the lines of "this is for your own good". Not loving his manhandling of Clarke and Octavia this episode 'for their own good' but it is certainly in character for S1 Bellamy and his treatment of Octavia.

 

 

 

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Agree to disagree re: the first point - even with guns, if Pike could wipe out an army with 10 men, I'm pretty sure Indra could very well have taken out Arkadia, or at least made a good attempt.

 

Pike wiped out an army that expected an attack from the opposite side, had vastly inferior weaponry and no fortifications in place (and even that was implausibly easy, if you ask me but that's another topic). If Indra's force were inside the fenced perimeter, I would understand the Arkadians feeling imminent danger but they weren't. Even back in season one when it was just the teenagers from the Ark with far fewer guns, the Grounders had real trouble getting through their makeshift fences, IIRC.

 

 

As I said - if it came down to all of the 12 clans rebelling against her and threatening to go to war, destroying the peace she had created, because they felt so strongly about her making peace with Arkadia? I don't think anyone could blame her for putting her own people first and sacrificing the few for the sake of the many. She's done it before. And even last episode there was an extremely good chance of her losing her position of commander, at which point the new heda's first act will presumably be to mobilize that army.

 

All true. Still doesn't justify a preemptive strike at all, IMO. Morality aside, it's strategic blunder because it common sense should have told Bellamy that the attack would either result in Lexa abandoning any attempts to make peace or her replacing by someone just as unwilling to make peace. He didn't have the luxury of reading the script and knowing Lexa would still try to push for peace. So they killed a small portion of the Grounder army but lost any moral high-ground they might have had. If Lexa had planned to attack them, this would have done nothing but strengthen immensely her political position. Nothing unites people better than a common enemy who is perceived to have committed atrocities against them.

 

 

Also, while I'm playing devil's advocate, I've read a few times that Bellamy was handing Clarke over to Pike to be killed, which is just not true.

 

Well, he didn't intend her to be killed obviously, but he should have realized there was a high chance Pike wouldn't treat her too well. He might not have killed her outright but any Grounder sympathizer would be in danger under the rule of that fanatic - as Bellamy himself told Octavia. Then again, he apparently didn't bother think that Clarke was basically Lexa's hostage at the time of the treacherous attack either, so I don't his brain was making much of an effort in the last two episode...

 

 

See, I could write a whole separate essay on Finn and why I felt for him - his death was so well written but I never felt he 'had' to die in order for me to enjoy the show - he was just a kid with severe PTSD, forced into fighting a war and pushed to breaking point. Still a terrible, unjustifiable thing, but I think understandable.

 

I felt for Finn to extent too but him dying made for a much better story. So many shows try to be darker and edgier yet end similar plotlines with a "magical third option". If it an important character, that is, if it is a red shirt, he can burn.

 

 

Every single one of the 300 could be trustworthy, wonderful human beings, but that fact won't save anyone once they are given the order to kill the Arkadians.

 

When you said 'they have proven over and over again that they can't be trusted' I thought meant the Grounders as a whole, not just their leaders.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[AnnaMayWong]

...i still do not get the following: Why are some(former leaders, scoundrels, semi-madmen) so special as to be redeemed following awful stunning 'for the good of our society' and this is your punishment due to...'

Redemption by fellow citizenry. Redemption by viewers. ... EXCEPT for Jaha.

What acts have Jaha committed for him to be dismissed, insultingly disregarded, and reviled by viewers to such a degree?

Abby, Kane, (Jaha), Murphy, Bellamy, Lexa,... have all personally directed and/or been complicit in acts running the gamut from➡betrayal to injurious plans and acts to horrific punishments to heartless crazed scenarios brought to fruition to out and out deliberate murderous purging of a people↪their own allies*.

Why do ALL of these people get praise, forgiveness, pats on the back, giggles, "Ah, he/she didn't mean it'', "Yeah, he/she did it, but..."

Why are those Arkers the recipients of redemptive thoughts/acts but not Jaha ?

Are not his thoughts and actions--drinking and pouring The COLaid-- being performed in the BELIEF of helping his arkmates just as some others have done? What is the difference?

*( Allies are always at risk of betrayal by one another even in The Real World militaristic, political, economic realms. And, at times, these alliances have been/are created with former/currentish antagonistic( from Cold-Shouldering to Killings) parties. The alliances may be short-lived or long-standing. Not cause for ensuing ill considered xenophobic preemptive death strikes-- otherwise alliances would never be formulated/formed.)*

...

Edited February 21, 2016 by BookElitist

[Gabe Torres]

I'm having to agree with a poster I saw on here who said Both Bellamy and Clarke are both basically being unlikable this season . Bellman being under Pike's Control so to speak and Clarke making googly eyes and trusting a Woman AGAIN who sold her and others out left them to die AND was willing to let Octavia Die. Gee I wish I could betray someone like that and they easily trust me again. Who's to say Lexa won't sell her out again.

 

Bellamy is not under Pike's control. Bellamy armed Pike and his men previously, and even when stopped and given a night to think things over, he went with Pike and butchered people in their sleep. He is being a xenophobic mass murderer all on his own.

 

Clarke chose to trust Bellamy again, after it was revealed his actions were not to help the 100, but for the sake of his agenda regarding killing all the 2500 Arkers in space - including Clarke's mom. Even after seeing the field of bodies that Bellamy played a star role in creating, she still believed in him to be a better (good) person. Even after he just went and completely tore into her, guilt tripped her, blamed her, mocked her, she still trusted and believed in him. And he then betrayed all of that.

 

Clarke forgave Bellamy after a few days for his 1st round of causing mass death. This was primarily motivated by A: he needed that and B: for the survival of the Delinquents she needed him to have it together. But for some reason Clarke starting to trust Lexa is horrible? I am curious if you hold the same anger towards Clarke for her much easier forgiveness of Bellamy? Particularly as Bellamy's actions were purely selfish and had zero positive mitigating factors such as trying to save your own people.

 

Yeah Clarke was willing risk that Octavia would die. Her reason for that for the sake of keeping Bellamy safe and the 44 delinquents inside Mount Weather. With Lexa it similar but with regards to her own people. With Bellamy he just wanted all those 2500 people to die to save his own ass. None of these actions are inherently right, but motivation and reasoning is key when it comes in general for people to if not forgive then at least understand such actions. Clarke was willing to risk Octavia with the goal of saving their people, Bellamy actively wanted all Arkers to die and therefore that includes Abby for purely selfish reasons. I do consider one much worse than the other. Also I am not sure why you hold this so much against Clarke but not Bellamy. I get Bellamy being angry over risking his sister, but Bellamy definitely don't have the moral high ground here either. I don't see how it could excuse Bellamy's actions, insane verbal shredding of Clarke, or him wanting to hand her over to Pike to likely be killed or interrogated for information.

 

In S1 Clarke actually left Finn and Bellamy and several others of the kids to die as well. She did that when she chose to shut the doors of the drop ship on them, because she didn't want to risk Grounders getting inside and killing more them. So she decided the number of people they would lose that was left outside, was smaller than the number they would lose if more Grounders got inside. Like S2 was not the first time on the show someone chose to leave X to die in order to save greater amount of Y.

 

I find Clarke pretty likable this season. It has been a nice little journey so far to see her going from very shut down to starting to becoming more activated again because she just can't not do something. Trying to take care of her people/others, is a huge driving force behind Clarke's actions, and it has been interesting to see her get pulled back in. 

 

By the way, Bellamy is getting raked over the coals because he already used his Get Out Of Jail For Free Card in S1.

 

There is only so many times a viewer can accept or buy into that a character is being redeemed for their terrible actions. Bellamy is not being brain washed or anything. He is on board and believing in xenophobic ideas, which is a personal motivational factor for him to then go slaughter innocent people. We have Bellamy in the middle of the night together with a handful of other people pulling the trigger on his riffle, shooting up people with bullets while they sleep. Bellamy systematically gunning down one individual after the other with his group until all that is left is a mix of 300 wounded or bullet riddled bodies.Then after going back, he acts all sulky and outraged over people being upset with him. He follows this up with being extremely terrible towards Lincoln, his sister and Clarke. If you can't understand why some of us are not signing up for Bellamy Blake The Redemption Part Deux then we will just be agreeing to disagree. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Gabe Torres

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

What acts have Jaha committed for him to be dismissed, insultingly disregarded, and reviled by viewers to such a degree?

 

Being involved in the snoozefest that is the City of Light storyline. Not giving a damn when the people he took with him on that journey died helped too. I liked him in season 1, even though he was the leader of a terrible dictatorial regime but ever since he landed on Earth he has been locked in some boring show of his own that only now has started to have anything to do with the rest of the story.

 

And yes, Bellamy has been Karma Houdini quite a few times. He shot Jaha and almost killed him, when the adults landed they knew that but conveniently said "whatever, bygones are bygones". Mind you, the regime on the Ark was horrible, so shooting the head of state isn't quite the vile crime it would be a normal country but the sheer nonchalance with which he was forgiven was rather annoying to me. Same goes for Murphy who was forgiven... why again? Did they even bother with a reason other than the meta-justification "We like the actor"?

 

 

*( Allies are always at risk of betrayal by one another even in The Real World militaristic, political, economic realms. And, at times, these alliances have been/are created with former/currentish antagonistic( from Cold-Shouldering to Killings) parties. The alliances may be short-lived or long-standing. Not cause for ensuing ill considered xenophobic preemptive death strikes-- otherwise alliances would never be formulated/formed.)*

 

Agreed. I don't recall - was the Arkers-Grounders alliance formalised beyond the truce? I mean, they fought together obviously but did they have an official agreement not to make separate peace and the likes? Because honestly, once Lexa achieved the goal of getting her people out if the only formal agreement was the truce pulling out would not technically be a betrayal. Maybe not the smartest thing to do in the long-run (depending on the chances of an all out attack against Mt. Weather) but still.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[Kate213]

In this episode, Bellamy Blake was emotionally abusive.  Not saying he always is, but in this episode, he was.  It's a dangerous line to walk if/when they plan to redeem him, considering the hordes of teenage girls online that are romanticizing that scene.  Clarke and Bellamy's scene was not some cute emotional argument, it was Bellamy blaming Clarke for everything that has gone wrong for them since they landed, guilting her to tears for choices of which he was a large part, blaming her for HIS horrific actions.  

 

Mount Weather was Clarke and Bellamy together.  That's how it's always been portrayed, that's what Bellamy has said, they bore that guilt together...until she didn't behave like he wanted.  Then suddenly it's all on her, she's responsible for it, she's the monster, not him.  "People die when you're in charge."  He has the gall to say this after he went and brutally slaughtered 300 people while they slept, as if he has any kind of moral high ground.

 

Clarke has always put her people first, usually to her own detriment.  She's never done anything for herself, always thinking of what's best for that group of idiots.  After Mount Weather, she needed time for herself, to deal with what she had to do to save them.  "You left me."  Clarke's responsible for Bellamy's choices and actions because she didn't stay and put him back together.  Regardless that she needed to put HERSELF back together.

 

And just when it seems that Clarke is getting through to him, he handcuffs her to a pipe.  He pretended to listen, pretended to care, just to get close enough to kidnap her; to prevent her from getting in the way of his and Pike's mass murdering plans.  

 

And what assurances were there exactly that Pike wouldn't kill/torture Clarke?  This is a man who masterminded and executed the killing of 300 defenseless people and yet he would never kill a potential threat to him?  Would never torture her to get every scrap of information he could use to his advantage?  Bellamy had to know that was a strong possibility.

 

There's little doubt the writers will attempt to redeem Bellamy, but he really doesn't deserve it.  

[MostlyC]

A brief note:  Please do not quote an entire post, especially when their post is lengthy.

 

Best to say,  "I agree 100% with MostlyC's Post" or "Wow, MostlyC said exactly what I was thinking"  or even,  "I disagree with MostlyC's post, but I understand MostlyC's point of view."

 

Of course, feel free to quote:  "MostlyC is the coolest Mod on PTV" as much as you like.  I'm not bashful.  ;)

 

 

[RCharter]

A brief note:  Please do not quote an entire post, especially when their post is lengthy.

 

Best to say,  "I agree 100% with MostlyC's Post" or "Wow, MostlyC said exactly what I was thinking"  or even,  "I disagree with MostlyC's post, but I understand MostlyC's point of view."

 

Of course, feel free to quote:  "MostlyC is the coolest Mod on PTV" as much as you like.  I'm not bashful.  ;)

I was going to say the hottest, but whatevs!  :)

[MostlyC]

Ahhhhhh!  You quoted my whole post!  Bad Poster, bad poster!

 

 

But RCharter, I appreciate the comment.  I'll take hottest any day.

[RCharter]

I mostly agree with MostlyC's comment about being the hottest mod :)

[Jack Shaftoe]

Come to think of it, not showing us the actual massacre of the 300 grounders as it happened and sparing Indra who was the only one of those people whom the viewers had gotten to know or even seen at that point makes me pretty certain Bellamy will have a redemption storyline. Though, I can always hope they showed us only the aftermath because action scenes are expensive to shoot.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The 100 Hands The Inmates The Keys To The Asylum
With Pike in charge and Jaha back on the scene, the situation at Arkadia is more unstable than ever.

[AudienceofOne]

I think I basically yelled at the TV re Bellamy's actions for 40 minutes straight. So I guess other things happened?

 

I get the writers seem to think this is about getting Bellamy back to the character he was in the beginning (he even says this is who he is). But I still just can't buy it. In particular, Bellamy's response to the Grounder massacre and to their treatment of Lincoln should have been, "shit, I just went too far. I'm out of here". But instead he doubled down. The latter is a surprisingly common response to being wrong but I just don't buy that Bellamy is not capable of greater self-reflection than that. Otherwise, we wouldn't have seen him grow so much as a character in the last two seasons.

 

I felt for Clarke so much in that scene because she really does rely on Bellamy and she really did believe that if she could just talk to him face to face things would be alright. I don't think she realised how angry at her he was.

[STOPSHOUTING]

Well, I've been kind of slow binging this over the last few months and I'm really feeling ... not great about season 3 to date. I've been spoiled, inevitably, on a few upcoming events, but am trying to watch with as fresh eyes as possible. 

I'm not annoyed from any kind of 'ship perspective, as that's not really my thing, just the wildly diverging, for no logical reason, characters. First, Bellamy becomes a cold-blooded murderer, killing his friends and allies while they sleep. Even Finn's psychotic break -- and when he did the shooting, I was like, they gotta kill him off now -- was more nuanced. (That they didn't SHOW Bellamy murdering makes me think they WILL try and redeem him and, no.)

Then, Lexa, the unflappable warrior queen, just says, 'Yeah, let's NOT avenge our people who were totally wholesale killed, because this girl I want to do made a lame speech?' AND Idra, who watched every single person she knew and loved murdered in front of her, responds, 'Okey-dokey, Commander' in 2 seconds flat? Seriously, show?!? WTF?!

I'm not buying either flip-flop and it's just not ... interesting, if you can't trust in the world and storyline they've put together to stay true to itself.

And, Pike, the one-note asshat ... I don't believe he'd win an election with a pledge "I'll bring back all the murdering." And give me something that shows he's at least a little savvy, even if only for his own self-interest. We get it. You like to kill Grounders. Guess what, there's more of them than you and bullets don't last forever. So, umm, check with history, Mr. Earth Skills teacher, on how that usually works out.

Lastly, perhaps it's my hate for Isiah Washington, the actor, but, man, I couldn't care any less about Jaha and Allie and the dumb ass City of Light.

Not bailing yet, but totally unimpressed with a show I liked so much up to this season I actually bought it on iTunes so I could watch before it came to Netflix. Regretting that decision now. Big time.

[Lady Calypso]

Massacring an entire army definitely didn't do Bellamy any favours. So what if he tried to limit the amount of deaths and tried to convince Pike to spare the wounded? This act makes Bellamy look really bad, and I'm not so sure if he can come back from this in my eyes. There's a difference between doing something for the greater good and doing something out of fear. For Bellamy and Pike, it feels like they're doing this out of fear, as if they think that all Grounders are evil and must die. There was no greater good in this. They didn't do this to save hundreds of lives. They didn't do it to save their people, because their people are not in danger of this army. 

Bellamy seems to think that what he's doing is right, but it's not. Octavia is on her way to hating her brother with every action he makes. If Octavia can team up with Clarke, someone she ended up hating last season because of her actions that killed Grounders, then Bellamy just surpassed Clarke in that massacre. I don't expect Octavia to forgive her brother for a long, long time and I will support her if she stays angry at him long after he probably chooses to go against Pike, whenever that is. I hope he comes to his senses soon, although he needs to be jailed for a long time after he does. The more episodes he stays on Pike's side, the more unredeemable he will be. He's already pretty much there with me as well.

I didn't even cheer at his conversation with Clarke, because he didn't really look good in it. Clarke made some valid points. Bellamy's just a pouty baby that Clarke left him to his mainpain. Clarke didn't have to stay; she was going through a lot of her own pain and needed to leave so she could deal with it herself. She had no obligation to stay. Sure, Clarke made bad choices as a leader. Bellamy's making worse choices with standing alongside a dictator. 

At least Miller is on the side of good; it makes sense for him to work as a double agent, to help Lincoln and the other sick Grounders. 

God, Lexa's decision is most certainly going to get her killed, isn't it? I'd advocate for the death of every Skaikru involved in the massacre; I know it's only 10, but it's a start. If Finn got killed for killing 18 Grounders for no reason, then Pike and his crew should suffer the same fate. The one time I'd agree with Lexa for blood must have blood chant, and she listens to Clarke! No, Clarke; your people aren't above punishment. Most of them voted for Pike to get into power. They just killed 300 while they were sleeping and unprepared for a battle.

Jaha's still in Crazy Town. Now, he's advocating for people to basically die and move to this City of Light. No, Jaha; you're just going to kill your cult members for nothing. Good job. Unless Emori's brother is going to pop back to life (which would be utterly stupid, by the way), Jaha needs to maybe get off the infinity drug. Now Raven's on it and I guess she thinks her leg is healed? Or it's something that just temporarily takes away the pain. I wanted Raven to get a plot not involving her depression over her leg, but joining Jaha in the City of Crazy is not what I had in mind.

Murphy and Emori are pretty great, at least. 

Also, to end the episode on a note: Pike needs to be locked up in an air tight room and they need to release the acid fog on him. Yeah, I think I'll continue to envision Pike dying in brutal ways until it happens....it better happen, by the way, or else I'll be sorely disappointed. I don't think I'm interested in seeing his redemption. I know every character who has crossed unforgiveable lines has been able to cross back and I've accepted that; Pike is a different story. So...release the acid fog!