The Beyonce Topic

[27bored]

Thanks for the responses.

I think the one thing that diminished Kool-Aid for me is that I still remember "Drunk in Love" and "Partition" from the last album and how they were all night ... loooove ... and rolling up windows because Jay Z was about to skeet and all that. Turns out, Jay Z left Beyonce's ass at the house while he was out with Becky with the good hair. I just get the feeling they were perpetrating to begin with and that's why some people are like, "mmhmm...the truth always comes out, doesn't it?"

And poor little ratchet ass Solange. They would still be Crazy in Lies and Drunk in Lies if she hadn't set it off in that elevator.

[TwistedandBored]

On 4/30/2016 at 3:42 AM, 27bored said:

Thanks for the responses.

I think the one thing that diminished Kool-Aid for me is that I still remember "Drunk in Love" and "Partition" from the last album and how they were all night ... loooove ... and rolling up windows because Jay Z was about to skeet and all that. Turns out, Jay Z left Beyonce's ass at the house while he was out with Becky with the good hair. I just get the feeling they were perpetrating to begin with and that's why some people are like, "mmhmm...the truth always comes out, doesn't it?"

And poor little ratchet ass Solange. They would still be Crazy in Lies and Drunk in Lies if she hadn't set it off in that elevator.

Um, the last thing I would use to describe Solange of all people is ratchet. Solange has always been low-key and above the mainstream media. The only time she got attention was during that whole elevator thing. 

As for Beyonce and Jay Z, I really don't know what happens in their personal lives. Maybe when Beyonce wrote those songs, she was happy and they were doing just fine. Cheating husbands sometimes don't stop sleeping with their wives. They do both. So, I just can't comment on that. 

As for the Kool-Aid comment, I don't think anyone was asking you or others who hate Beyonce to drink it. People were just responding to the new Beyonce album and commenting on her work ethic. We all like something other people don't like and that is fine. 

[27bored]

I called Solange ratchet because of that whole elevator thing. There have been other stories of her showing her ass, but who knows if they're true. Still, the elevator incident gives some indication that she ratchet. Plus, I'm sure Beyonce asked her not to say anything publicly about it, but that doesn't mean it was going away.

It's not nosiness to speculate when it's been put out there like this. I think in one of the spoken word portions of Lemonade she said something about trying to be sexier or something to that effect. A lot of people mentioned how BEYONCE was more sexed-up than her prior work, in addition to the fact that her get-ups got more and more risque. It made sense in context.

[truthaboutluv]

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 It seems like there's an attitude that Lemonade album doesn't deserve this acclaim or a high Metacritic rating purely because she's a pop princess.

 

 

 

Well in fairness, that happens to a lot of the really successful women (I guess there is something to be said that it is mostly the women but that's a whole separate topic). Many people reacted the same way to all the success and hype around Taylor Swift when 1989 came out and were furious about her winning AOTY for it. Now to be fair, I was one of those who called bullshit on her winning but that's just because I didn't think 1989 was a better album than Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp A Butterfly. I definitely thought she deserved to be nominated, though. And some feel the same about Adele and her success. So people reacting negatively or dismissing a pop album is nothing new.

That said, while I do love the album, I do think there is some bit of "bandwagon mentality" that goes into all the praise from critics and it's not just with  Beyonce. I also felt the same about the Beyonce album. I felt like some critics were more wowed by the whole sneak/surprise and visual album thing than the quality of the songs itself. Not everyone of course but some. I always call it the Emperor's New Clothes syndrome. Sometimes, no one wants to be the person who seems like they don't "get it". Of course on the flip-side of that is the person who tries so hard to be different that they must criticize and reject anything that is very popular. 

 

Quote

I called Solange ratchet because of that whole elevator thing. There have been other stories of her showing her ass, but who knows if they're true. Still, the elevator incident gives some indication that she ratchet.

 

 

 

 

No one knows exactly what caused whatever happened in that elevator. People can speculate and some of the speculations may be right but no one knows the specifics. And the fact is MANY of us, if a camera was shone on our lives would probably have someone dismiss us as "ratchet". The fact is, and what I believe the poster above was saying is that Solange is someone who lives her life very quietly for the most part. She is not in tabloids, not actively seeking being tabloid fodder, not on social media attacking this one and that one, not falling out of events and places drunk or high, etc. There was a family incident that got leaked by a hotel worker and the world saw it. To use only that and throw around words like ratchet, which whether or not was the intent, does have a very distasteful connotation to it, seems a little unfair. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[27bored]

I'm not basing her ratchetness on something arbitrary or ultimately meaningless. Solange fighting Jay Z like that was a strong indication of it. I mean, I think it's clear it had something to do with Beyonce and Jay Z, but you are right we don't know what happened. My point is Solange acted like someone who doesn't have anything, and that's why I said she's ratchet. Judging from body language, my guess is Jay and Bey have seen that from Solange before. 

I'm not basing her ratchetness on something arbitrary or ultimately meaningless. Solange fighting Jay Z like that was a strong indication of it. I mean, I think it's clear it had something to do with Beyonce and Jay Z, but you are right we don't know what happened. My point is Solange acted like someone who doesn't have anything, and that's why I said she's ratchet. Judging from body language, my guess is Jay and Bey have seen that from Solange before. 

[UYI]

Solange actually did post a passive aggressive Tweet after the Met Ball about someone who thinks their artsy but is actually very fake, someone who spoke to her there (without saying who, of course). And based on what she wore to the Met Ball/has worn in the past, I can at least see why people would think she LOOKS ratchet. 

[truthaboutluv]

49 minutes ago, UYI said:

Solange actually did post a passive aggressive Tweet after the Met Ball about someone who thinks their artsy but is actually very fake, someone who spoke to her there (without saying who, of course). And based on what she wore to the Met Ball/has worn in the past, I can at least see why people would think she LOOKS ratchet. 

I knew someone would bring up that tweet. IMO that was another example of people wanting a story where they may be none. Yes the tweet could have been in reference to something that happened at the MET Ball or could have been about a completely random person/incident. However, it was tweeted after the MET Ball, everyone remembers the video from last year, so of course the media and tabloids couldn't wait to run with the idea that she was clearly referring to someone at the event. Just another day in entertainment.

You know just like they ran with Leo Dicaprio "shading" Lady Gaga when she won her Golden Globe because he made face. Of course anyone who actually saw the moment, saw that Gaga bumped into his chair, he sort of jumped and made an awkward laughing face to the person he was talking to at the time. But the media sure made it seem like he was shading Gaga and in the space of an hour, the story moved to him being unimpressed with her win.  

As for Solange's MET outfits, again YMMV but I've seen nothing ratchet since most times I think she matches the theme well. I didn't get this year's outfit and I thought it was ugly but not ratchet. Solange has looked more put together and better dressed most years at the event than Beyonce, in my opinion. The MET Gala is a costume gala, which is why there is a theme. But again, this is likely a circular argument so moving on.

IMO, there are far more celebrities doing way worse than Solange who are not dismissed and brushed off with the ratchet label. As I said, for the most part Solange keeps her head down, does her indie/artsy stuff, has her kid and her husband and is basically living her life fairly quietly in New Orleans. But someone leaks a video of an incident between her and her brother-in-law and suddenly she's just dismissed as some ratchet woman.

Because let's face it, would anyone here be talking about Solange, much less calling her ratchet and reading into her vague tweet, had it not been for that incident? Which brings me to my point again that let someone turn a camera onto some of our lives and see what people say about you. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Ohwell]

I had to look up "ratchet" and found a definition in the Urban Dictionary.  I think I'll just make up a word, too.

[Bastet]

I just read through the Solange discussion, and had to go look it up, too -- to me, ratchet is a noun or verb, not an adjective, so I had to check Urban Dictionary to learn exactly what she was being called (since I figured she was not being compared to a socket wrench).

[DearEvette]

On 5/8/2016 at 3:56 PM, truthaboutluv said:

That said, while I do love the album, I do think there is some bit of "bandwagon mentality" that goes into all the praise from critics and it's not just with  Beyonce. I also felt the same about the Beyonce album. I felt like some critics were more wowed by the whole sneak/surprise and visual album thing than the quality of the songs itself. Not everyone of course but some. I always call it the Emperor's New Clothes syndrome. Sometimes, no one wants to be the person who seems like they don't "get it". Of course on the flip-side of that is the person who tries so hard to be different that they must criticize and reject anything that is very popular.

I get what you are saying about the bandwagon syndrome, but honestly, I think there is some real legitimacy to the critical response the album is getting.  Maybe because I am filtering it through my own response to it.  I have enjoyed and rooted for Beyonce in an abstract, almost absent way.  To me she has always been the type of artist whose stuff comes on the radio or who I see in videos and I hum along and sing to her songs.  But never gave them any real thought. Like I said above, I respected her hustle.

When I sat down to watch Lemonade, I was all ready to roll my eyes at the pretentiousness.  I mean she had just come out with the Ivy Park stuff about a week before and the opening shots of Lemonade just looked like an extended Ivy Park commercial.  But as it went on I became riveted.  I found myself really enjoying all the textures of the music.  It made sit up and pay attention to Bey in a way I never paid attention to her before.  She surprised me in a really good way. I am shocked by how much I like this, like totally shocked.   I actually went online after Lemonade aired to see if I was the only one who liked this, because I was sure I was missing something.  And then I bought the damn thing!  Even without the visual piece of it, I think what I like the most is that it is telling a cohesive story, a linear narrative in song, with the various musical styles punctuating the storytelling aspect of it.

Funny enough, in my own personal circle of friends on my own social media spaces, the reaction was the same.  People were surprised.  And I have some incredibly cynical friends.  So to hear them giving the album props was some next level validation for me.  So as the days and weeks went by and to see the praise the album is getting from legit musical critics tells me there really is some There there.

[UYI]

I should clarify what I said about Solange earlier:

I actually find some of her styles interesting, especially at the Met Ball. She at least attempted to be offbeat, which I like. Sometimes you need that, and the Met Ball is a place for that. I guess mileage varies on using the word "ratchet", but in any case, she wasn't boring.

As for Beyonce, I will admit straight up that I'm really not a fan of the type of music she makes, and her fans over the top worship (and it DOES often extend--to a scary degree--to the mainstream press in a way you don't generally see with any other pop star, even Adele or Taylor Swift)/ tendency to dismiss those who just aren't that into her as "jelly haters" (also, the whole Rachel Roy/Rachael Ray mix up on Instagram didn't help matters, either). However, there are four things in particular that I commend her for:

1. Her status as a prominent black woman in entertainment.

2. Her singing voice--I may not be crazy about her music, but I won't deny her singing talent.

3. The way she pissed people off with "Formation."

4. Unlike Taylor Swift, when she takes a break, she actually seems to know how to do it without continuously popping up over and over again afterwards. 

[Ohwell]

Just to clarify, I've heard of the word "ratchet" in terms of "the conversation ratcheted up to the point where a fist fight broke out," and some kind of tool, but never as a word to describe someone.  

[UYI]

It is kind of a newer slang term. Sorry for the confusion. :) 

[Ohwell]

8 hours ago, UYI said:

It is kind of a newer slang term. Sorry for the confusion. :) 

Never mind.  I'm old. : )

[TwistedandBored]

I think I am confused why a word like ratchet was even brought up in a Beyonce thread. I have been a member of this board for a while and I have never seen that word being associated with other actors or artist who have done some really ratchet things. 

[UYI]

I think ratchet can be used a a way to describe interesting/weird/cheap looking outfits, too, though, which has sometimes applied to Solange (not Beyonce herself, generally).

But I genuinely did not mean to set anything off by using that word! I'm truly sorry for that. :( 

[TwistedandBored]

I don't think I have seen anyone describing Solange as ratchet before this discussion. This was soo weird to me. 

UYI, I am sure you meant nothing by any of this. I guess that word is another trigger word for me too. It has a negative connotation that I don't like. 

[NutMeg]

On 4/28/2016 at 1:27 AM, 27bored said:

I have a non-shady question: I know a lot of people, including me, mention that Beyonce works hard. She's so driven and motivated. But...how? I mean this semi-sarcastically, because a lot of Beyonce's success is hype -- media and the entertainment industry like her so they keep her name out there, which isn't to say it isn't deserved or earned, but like I said above, if Jazmine Sullivan made the same record, there wouldn't be wall-to-wall coverage -- but I'm genuinely curious how Beyonce works harder than her contemporaries. Why is she known for her work over other artists? She records music, she makes videos, and she tours. Like every other you know of and plenty of others you don't. What makes her different?

You know that Coldplay's Hymn for the wekend song? And how she sings there? Well, I remember a member of the group saying [paraphrasing, but maybe not] "she showed up, sang her part, and was done in five minutes". That, to me, is being professional, and to be that, you have to work hard to make it seem seeemless - just my two cents, and I'm not even a fan :)

[DearEvette]

Very late on the Solange discussion, but I would never describe her as "ratchet".  She has a very boho aesthetic that is actually quite stylish, imo. Her personal style is often quite more avante garde and even more fashion forward tha Beyonce's.    Of the two, I think Solange is the more editorial and has a better sense of what suits when it comes to her look. She just has a very cool chick vibe that carries over into her own music and lifestyle.  She actually curates a music and lifestyle blog/zine called Saint Heron that is very much a mirror to herself.  It has a very neo-soul/afro-futura thing going on that fits her to a T.  It is no wonder she is besties with Jenelle Monae.  Also, her wedding was so off the hook stylish it was insane.

This is no shade to anyone here, but I have a personal hate of the term "ratchet" because it is especially coded, and mired in racial, gendered and respectability politics.  It is yet another term that is applied almost exclusively to black women and has been largely aopted to other and shame them.

Edited June 8, 2016 by DearEvette

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

This is no shade to anyone here, but I have a personal hate of the term "ratchet" because it is especially coded, and mired in racial, gendered and respectability politics.  It is yet another term that is applied almost exclusively to black women and has been largely aopted to other and shame them

 

Brilliantly stated. 

[TwistedandBored]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

This is no shade to anyone here, but I have a personal hate of the term "ratchet" because it is especially coded, and mired in racial, gendered and respectability politics.  It is yet another term that is applied almost exclusively to black women and has been largely aopted to other and shame them.

This soo much. It is one of the reason why that word gets to me soo much like using the word "thug" when referring to certain black men. Ratchet is for the woman and I hated it. 

[topanga]

I know this is the Beyoncé thread, but I want to talk about Solange again. I was disappointed to hear her on a recent episode of SNL. She sounded bad. And I always thought Solange could sing, so I don't know what happened. Maybe the sound was bad, or she was overly-nervous. 

It would suck to be the little sister who is forever in the shadow of my more talented, more famous older sister. Bey is taller, is a better singer, and is a better dancer. I won't say she's prettier than Solange--I think they're both beautiful. 

And I do think Solange is a better actress than her sister, but I'm splitting hairs.

[Ohwell]

Solange is credited with being a music producer or something on the show Insecure, so maybe she should stick to doing that, and perhaps song writing.  She did sound bad on SNL though.  Trying too hard.

[27bored]

3. The way she pissed people off with "Formation."

Y'know, I don't think that many people were pissed off by Formation. I think part of the rabid fandom she has is that everyone who's lukewarm on her suddenly becomes a hater because they're not losing their minds over her fierceness. When I saw Beyonce on the Super Bowl, I thought Formation was just another step routine song (a la Ring the Alarm, Single Ladies, Who Runs the World, 7/11, Flawless, etc). I was confused/annoyed by the fact that girlie just did the Halftime Show a few years ago (prior to releasing new material) and I don't think the Super Bowl Halftime Show should be the venue to try out your new shit. The performance was whatever. The video was alright. It had a message besides turning up, which was a nice departure, but...eh. I watch the news. I don't need sociopolitical statements from Beyonce in order to be conscious.

I know a few police departments made some noise in lieu of the message behind Formation and, well, I see both sides. Not to get too political, but while I can appreciate the message behind Formation, I can also see being annoyed by the grandstanding. Celebrities, in general, have it easier than the rest of us. Speaking out against police officers who seem to get away with shooting unarmed citizens is one thing, but fanning the flames and low-key stoking social unrest over the issue du jour, when those same people will be the ones putting their lives on the line for when your dog-and-pony show comes to town, is a little pretentious. To be fair, I don't think Beyonce was trying to be messy with "Formation" ("you know you that bitch when cause all this conversation" lyrics aside), but I can see why it might have ruffled some feathers in certain segments.

All that being said, Kool-Aid was nominated for Album of the Year at the Grammys! Good for her. The surprising thing is, I...kinda think she deserves it. On principle I'm opposed to Grammy darlings and Beyonce is definitely one of them. But this was an artistic achievement for her, and I think it's remarkable that she put it together after her last album which many people found to be an artistic achievement. Much respect to Beyonce for the fact that for the second album in a row she's using her celebrity and fame to make albums and not just catchy singles. Most artists can't just focus on putting together a body of work, because we don't consume music like that anymore. But it's good that Beyonce's not still chasing after number 1 singles like most of her contemporaries. Recording albums that have a centralized theme and focus will keep her around.

[quangtran]

Quote

Y'know, I don't think that many people were pissed off by Formation.

I'd like to think that as well, but then made the mistake of reading the comments in regards to her performing Daddy's Lessons at the CMA. Speaking out against police violence apparently gave people the permission to claim that: she hates white people, hates the police, hates America, call her the N-word, call her a monkey, and tons of other stuff not worth mentioning. So no, I completely reject this whole thing about "both sides". The funny thing about her choosing to perform with the Dixie Chick is that people are still angry at trio, and not because they still disagree with those comments (no one likes George W Bush anymore) but because they dared to ruffle feathers in the first place.

[truthaboutluv]

YMMV but my bafflement by the Formation "controversy" is and continues to be the idea that the song was some political statement against police brutality. Um how? I have read and re-read these lyrics and I am still trying to see this message in those words. And hey, I'm a student of literature so I understand metaphors, imagery and subtlety so I don't need to have something blatantly stated and thrown in my face to get a message. 

However, in my opinion, Formation is not that different from Beyonce's other "I'm the baddest bitch in the game" songs. At best, I will concede that the song does have some expression of her being proud of her heritage. But this notion of Formation as some black anthem of empowerment and criticism of police brutality against black people, is a stretch in my opinion.

Far as I can tell, many jumped on that idea when the video was released because it included images of the Black Lives Matter movement, her dancers were wearing outfits reminiscent of the Black Panther Movement, there was the shot of her sitting on the cop car floating in water, which some also took as a reference to the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. So yes, there is something to be said about the video being a statement on black empowerment but the song itself, not so much. But hey, maybe it's me. 

Quote

[Intro: Messy Mya]
What happened at the New Wil’ins?
Bitch, I'm back by popular demand

[Refrain: Beyoncé]
Y'all haters corny with that illuminati mess
Paparazzi, catch my fly, and my cocky fresh
I'm so reckless when I rock my Givenchy dress (stylin')
I'm so possessive so I rock his Roc necklaces
My daddy Alabama, Momma Louisiana
You mix that negro with that Creole make a Texas bama
I like my baby heir with baby hair and afros
I like my negro nose with Jackson Five nostrils
Earned all this money but they never take the country out me
I got a hot sauce in my bag, swag

[Interlude: Messy Mya + Big Freedia]
Oh yeah, baby, oh yeah I, ohhhhh, oh, yes, I like that
I did not come to play with you hoes, haha
I came to slay, bitch
I like cornbreads and collard greens, bitch
Oh, yes, you besta believe it

[Refrain: Beyoncé]
Y'all haters corny with that illuminati mess
Paparazzi, catch my fly, and my cocky fresh
I'm so reckless when I rock my Givenchy dress (stylin')
I'm so possessive so I rock his Roc necklaces
My daddy Alabama, Momma Louisiana
You mix that negro with that Creole make a Texas bama
I like my baby heir with baby hair and afros
I like my negro nose with Jackson Five nostrils
Earned all this money but they never take the country out me
I got a hot sauce in my bag, swag

[Chorus: Beyoncé]
I see it, I want it, I stunt, yellow-bone it
I dream it, I work hard, I grind 'til I own it
I twirl on them haters, albino alligators
El Camino with the seat low, sippin' Cuervo with no chaser
Sometimes I go off (I go off), I go hard (I go hard)
Get what's mine (take what's mine), I'm a star (I'm a star)
Cause I slay (slay), I slay (hey), I slay (okay), I slay (okay)
All day (okay), I slay (okay), I slay (okay), I slay (okay)
We gon' slay (slay), gon' slay (okay), we slay (okay), I slay (okay)
I slay (okay), okay (okay), I slay (okay), okay, okay, okay, okay
Okay, okay, ladies, now let's get in formation, cause I slay
Okay, ladies, now let's get in formation, cause I slay
Prove to me you got some coordination, cause I slay
Slay trick, or you get eliminated

[Verse: Beyoncé]
When he fuck me good I take his ass to Red Lobster, cause I slay
When he fuck me good I take his ass to Red Lobster, cause I slay
If he hit it right, I might take him on a flight on my chopper, cause I slay
Drop him off at the mall, let him buy some J's, let him shop up, cause I slay
I might get your song played on the radio station, cause I slay
I might get your song played on the radio station, cause I slay
You just might be a black Bill Gates in the making, cause I slay
I just might be a black Bill Gates in the making

[Chorus: Beyoncé]
I see it, I want it, I stunt, yellow-bone it
I dream it, I work hard, I grind 'til I own it
I twirl on my haters, albino alligators
El Camino with the seat low, sippin' Cuervo with no chaser
Sometimes I go off (I go off), I go hard (I go hard)
Get what's mine (take what's mine), I'm a star (I'm a star)
Cause I slay (slay), I slay (hey), I slay (okay), I slay (okay)
All day (okay), I slay (okay), I slay (okay), I slay (okay)
We gon' slay (slay), gon' slay (okay), we slay (okay), I slay (okay)
I slay (okay), okay (okay), I slay (okay), okay, okay, okay, okay
Okay, okay, ladies, now let's get in formation, cause I slay
Okay, ladies, now let's get in formation, cause I slay
Prove to me you got some coordination, cause I slay
Slay trick, or you get eliminated

[Bridge: Beyoncé]
Okay, ladies, now let's get in formation, I slay
Okay, ladies, now let's get in formation
You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation
Always stay gracious, best revenge is your paper

[Outro:]
Girl, I hear some thunder
Golly, look at that water, boy, oh lord

These are the lyrics of Formation above. 

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All that being said, Kool-Aid was nominated for Album of the Year at the Grammys! Good for her. 

Was this meant to be dismissive or do you really not know the album's title is Lemonade. 

[27bored]

Quote

I'd like to think that as well, but then made the mistake of reading the comments in regards to her performing Daddy's Lessons at the CMA. Speaking out against police violence apparently gave people the permission to claim that: she hates white people, hates the police, hates America, call her the N-word, call her a monkey, and tons of other stuff not worth mentioning. So no, I completely reject this whole thing about "both sides". The funny thing about her choosing to perform with the Dixie Chick is that people are still angry at trio, and not because they still disagree with those comments (no one likes George W Bush anymore) but because they dared to ruffle feathers in the first place.

I'd take Internet comments with a grain of salt, but I take your point. I think people like the idea of being controversial more than actually being controversial. Having your name on the tips of people's tongues is kind of fun, especially if you're selling something, but it can and often will lead to a bunch of bullshit, too. I mean, look at the Dixie Chicks. I never entirely understood that whole issue, even when it first happened. Women in Country music still have an upward climb, even if they're successful. I think there's a lingering sense that they should be lil' ladies and not outspoken  (i.e. Natalie Maines).

Quote

YMMV but my bafflement by the Formation "controversy" is and continues to be the idea that the song was some political statement against police brutality. Um how? I have read and re-read these lyrics and I am still trying to see this message in those words. And hey, I'm a student of literature so I understand metaphors, imagery and subtlety so I don't need to have something blatantly stated and thrown in my face to get a message.

However, in my opinion, Formation is not that different from Beyonce's other "I'm the baddest bitch in the game" songs. At best, I will concede that the song does have some expression of her being proud of her heritage. But this notion of Formation as some black anthem of empowerment and criticism of police brutality against black people, is a stretch in my opinion.

Far as I can tell, many jumped on that idea when the video was released because it included images of the Black Lives Matter movement, her dancers were wearing outfits reminiscent of the Black Panther Movement, there was the shot of her sitting on the cop car floating in water, which some also took as a reference to the Hurricane Katrina aftermath. So yes, there is something to be said about the video being a statement on black empowerment but the song itself, not so much. But hey, maybe it's me. [/quote]

I agree. I don't know that it was seen as anti-police, necessarily, but the Black Panthers thing at the Superbowl made it appear that way (to her detractors, that is) and some of the imagery in the video. But you're right -- the song itself isn't really that different from her other hood chick anthems.

 

Quote

Was this meant to be dismissive or do you really not know the album's title is

Lemonade. 

Heh, I know. I call it Kool-Aid sometimes because it's kinda fun to say. I work with a girl who said, "given all the writers on that album, it should've been called Minutemaid".

Edited January 4, 2017 by 27bored

[27bored]

So Beyonce is pregnant. Uh, let me keep it real: I'm happy for her, but Beyonce...is crazy. Like, for real, y'all. I hope her people are seeing after her because I have a bad feeling in a few years we're going to look back at this photo and realize, "damn, that's when she really lost her damn mind". I've...kinda been thinking that for awhile. I thought there was something to her not giving interviews and her music getting better and yet more risque, but yeah. Beyonce is going through it. As a matter of fact, looking at her eyes this past year...she looks troubled. I love and can't stand her, but yeah, I hope she's alright.

[Watermelon]

On February 3, 2017 at 7:52 PM, 27bored said:

So Beyonce is pregnant. Uh, let me keep it real: I'm happy for her, but Beyonce...is crazy. Like, for real, y'all. I hope her people are seeing after her because I have a bad feeling in a few years we're going to look back at this photo and realize, "damn, that's when she really lost her damn mind". I've...kinda been thinking that for awhile. I thought there was something to her not giving interviews and her music getting better and yet more risque, but yeah. Beyonce is going through it. As a matter of fact, looking at her eyes this past year...she looks troubled. I love and can't stand her, but yeah, I hope she's alright.

You think so? To me she just seems like a rich bored Virgo who thinks they're being creative 

[vibeology]

On ‎2‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 7:52 PM, 27bored said:

So Beyonce is pregnant. Uh, let me keep it real: I'm happy for her, but Beyonce...is crazy. Like, for real, y'all. I hope her people are seeing after her because I have a bad feeling in a few years we're going to look back at this photo and realize, "damn, that's when she really lost her damn mind". I've...kinda been thinking that for awhile. I thought there was something to her not giving interviews and her music getting better and yet more risque, but yeah. Beyonce is going through it. As a matter of fact, looking at her eyes this past year...she looks troubled. I love and can't stand her, but yeah, I hope she's alright.

I don't see crazy. With Kanye there were very clear signs. I think Beyoncé was motivated to get pictures out there because all the speculation and rumours about her last pregnancy bug her and she doesn't want people to doubt or gossip this time. As for the pictures being kind of ugly, Beyoncé has never really had taste. I mean, ever. Look back at her red carpets, costumes, House of Dereon etc. and she's kind of a tacky gal and has been ever since her mom was sewing her costumes. (I actually think it's rather charming that Queen Bey is tacky.)

And I don't really understand the correlation between not giving interviews and being unwell. Beyoncé has consistently been very private. Look how long it took for her and Jay-Z to confirm they were together. Nothing here seems new or different to me.

[27bored]

OK, y'all, for real. Did you just see her Grammy's performance? CRAZY.

[vibeology]

Or genius. She grabbed the Madonna imagery and made it hers. She made her pregnancy the centrepiece of her performance and claimed the mother goddess role central to every world mythology. She was Isis, Mary, Venus and Ishtar all at once. Beyoncé made herself a god with that performance. It was clearly calculated and served to further elevate her image while still maintaining her distance from the fans. 

[topanga]

On 2/12/2017 at 9:05 PM, 27bored said:

OK, y'all, for real. Did you just see her Grammy's performance? CRAZY.

On 2/12/2017 at 9:45 PM, vibeology said:

Or genius. She grabbed the Madonna imagery and made it hers. She made her pregnancy the centrepiece of her performance and claimed the mother goddess role central to every world mythology. She was Isis, Mary, Venus and Ishtar all at once. Beyoncé made herself a god with that performance. It was clearly calculated and served to further elevate her image while still maintaining her distance from the fans. 

 

Some people are just born to perform*. In home video footage from Beyonce's childhood, when she used to perform in school talent shows, she had unnatural amounts of energy and passion even then. And her family says she was usually quiet and shy in school. So I guess she had Sasha Fierce even back then.

 

*Michael Jackson and Prince also come to mind.

[aradia22]

Currently doing a dive into Destiny's Child. I think my old iPod had Destiny Fulfilled and a compilation of #1's but that leaves plenty of songs off. So I'm listening to Survivor and I hit "Nasty Girls" and it completely takes me aback. I listen to the whole thing waiting for a twist... but there isn't any. Granted, this is a song from 2001 but still, it's on the same album as Independent Women. So I assume someone has written about this but this is the only article I found. https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2013/03/what-rush-limbaugh-got-right-about-beyonce/274305/

Quote

And while it suggests a kind of girl power, I suppose, that girl power seems focused on empowering Beyoncé first, and any other women a distant second. [...]

Femininity is still an insult, and power is being able to treat your enemies like bitches—that is to say, like women. Beyoncé can be strong and independent, but only (at least in this case) by relying on the tired tropes of performative misogyny. 

Maybe her catalogue is just too big to tackle but I'm surprised Beyonce doesn't get as much heat as someone like Taylor Swift who I've never found to be as worthy of vitriol as large segments of the internet... and also started writing songs (probably to a larger degree independently) at a much younger age. 

[27bored]

I agree. I think Beyonce has gotten away with a lot that other female acts probably wouldn't. Taylor gets a bit of a pass because of her age and not being affected in her writing. I think Taylor is very honest and it makes her come off bitter and clingy at times, but it is...real. Beyonce makes people twerk, so the dollop of sexual politics in many of her songs gets glossed over.

I heard that Jay Z talks about their numerous miscarriages, but that he says their twins were conceived naturally, in his latest album. I don't know much about conception and whatnot, but I wonder if Beyonce's miscarriages had something to do with her lifestyle. It's very stressful to be an entertainer, and Beyonce films videos for every song and has gone on several tours over the past few years...all while trying to conceive. I'm sure that didn't help, but I am glad they were able to have children the natural way.

[27bored]

Allow me to resurrect this thread to flesh out a theory of mine:

I have a theory that Beyonce is the reason Black female artists have a hard time going mainstream. I don't know if it's the entertainment industry or Beyonce/Jay-Z and their connections making sure she never really has any competition. I think it's probably a bit of both.

I'll elaborate.

The only other Black female singer to have a mainstream career in music in the past, say, 10 years, is Rihanna. Rihanna was signed by Jay-Z, her career was largely guided by Jay Z, and maybe a few of you remember those rumors a few years ago that Rihanna was one of Jay Z's Beckys with the good hair. Jus sayin'. And furthermore, think about Rihanna for a second. This is a pretty, light-skinned chick who grew up singing along to Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston on the radio. But to become a star Rihanna had to become this dead-eyed, foul-mouthed bad girl. It's a little Madonna/Whore when you think about Beyonce's typically picture-perfect image and calculated sexuality. 

The only other Black female who has some mainstream success if Nicki Minaj, but she's a rapper and think about her image. All fake boobs, fake butt, fake teeth, fake hair. She always looks like she's trying really really hard.

It's like there isn't one Black female who has come out who has a "normal" pop star image. I mean, Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato, Selena Gomez...they all have careers but they don't ever seem like they're elbowing each other for space.

Maybe since Beyonce is on the other side of 30 and has three children she'll fall back and let some younger females of color get some shine.

[funkopop]

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 7:11 PM, 27bored said:

Allow me to resurrect this thread to flesh out a theory of mine:

I have a theory that Beyonce is the reason Black female artists have a hard time going mainstream. I don't know if it's the entertainment industry or Beyonce/Jay-Z and their connections making sure she never really has any competition. I think it's probably a bit of both.

I'll elaborate.

The only other Black female singer to have a mainstream career in music in the past, say, 10 years, is Rihanna. Rihanna was signed by Jay-Z, her career was largely guided by Jay Z, and maybe a few of you remember those rumors a few years ago that Rihanna was one of Jay Z's Beckys with the good hair. Jus sayin'. And furthermore, think about Rihanna for a second. This is a pretty, light-skinned chick who grew up singing along to Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston on the radio. But to become a star Rihanna had to become this dead-eyed, foul-mouthed bad girl. It's a little Madonna/Whore when you think about Beyonce's typically picture-perfect image and calculated sexuality. 

The only other Black female who has some mainstream success if Nicki Minaj, but she's a rapper and think about her image. All fake boobs, fake butt, fake teeth, fake hair. She always looks like she's trying really really hard.

It's like there isn't one Black female who has come out who has a "normal" pop star image. I mean, Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato, Selena Gomez...they all have careers but they don't ever seem like they're elbowing each other for space.

Maybe since Beyonce is on the other side of 30 and has three children she'll fall back and let some younger females of color get some shine.

I remember when Rihanna first came out she was paired with a singer named Teirra Marie.  Jay-z treated Teirra like the next Princess of Roc-a-fella and Rihanna was basically paid dust, just a Island Def Jam project.  Now fast forward 10+ years .  I do think the transformation did help Rihanna because during her first 2 albums she was nothing but "Island Beyoncé" with questionable singing abilities.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Knowles Carter Institution did ice out Beyoncé's competition, remember Ashanti, Amerie, Leona Lewis.  When Beyoncé was getting her solo start she had so much potential competition but all those singers fell by the wayside. 

Prior to Beyonce, who was the last BIG Black female star?  Aaliyah?

Also when you think about it, the 4 album was her last mainstream pop album. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by funkopop

[27bored]

You're right, funkopop.

Teairra Marie was called the Princess of Roc-a-Fella by Jay Z. She had a song or two, and then that went away. Rihanna managed to snag Umbrella at just the right time, and she blew up. And it's funny you mentioned Amerie. She had a song or two. There's a video of Amerie, Teairra Marie, and Rihanna doing a Destiny's Child tribute. But yeah, there have been plenty of black females who have bubbled under the surface in the past ten years who didn't get any traction. To be fair, many of them have tried going the urban route, but even still.

Another singer is Kerri Hilson. Now, most of us know that she got iced out because she did a freestyle dissing Ciara and Beyonce and their fans got mad at her and her career wasn't the same. But, if I recall correctly, Kerri Hilson had a legitimate reason to be mad. Wasn't that entire matter over a verse that she wrote and recorded, but then some behind-the-scenes shit went down and they got Beyonce to sing it instead? I'm sure this has happened many many times before, but it's kind of like, if that kind of thing had happened to Beyonce, I'm sure her fans would've been pissed off.

And yes, I think Aaliyah was the last big black female star prior to Beyonce going solo. That's sad, but ironically, there's even a slight Jay Z connection with her...since she was dating Dame Dash at the time of her death.

Her last mainstream album was 4 and even that was a modest success. None of the singles on that album did just that well, did they? I still remember "Best Thing You Never Had". That song was...yeah. You could hear Beyonce getting behind those lyrics and puuuuuushing them out. I USED TO WANT YOU SO BAD! I'M SO THROUGH WITH IT! Yeah, Beyonce. And I still say the video for that song is when I realized Beyonce was probably a little nuts. For real. Go watch the video. It's like the bitch is running down hills in wedding dresses and reminiscing about her high school prom date on her wedding day. I don't know what the fuck was going on in that video.

[GaT]

10 minutes ago, 27bored said:

And it's funny you mentioned Amerie. She had a song or two.

I forgot all about Amerie, where did she go? I used to really like "1 Thing".

 

On 9/2/2017 at 4:11 PM, 27bored said:

I have a theory that Beyonce is the reason Black female artists have a hard time going mainstream. I don't know if it's the entertainment industry or Beyonce/Jay-Z and their connections making sure she never really has any competition. I think it's probably a bit of both.

Tinashe (who I think is a really good singer & entertainer) got slammed on Twitter for saying that "If you’re a black singer, you’re either Beyoncé or Rihanna"

[funkopop]

12 hours ago, GaT said:

I forgot all about Amerie, where did she go? I used to really like "1 Thing".

 

Tinashe (who I think is a really good singer & entertainer) got slammed on Twitter for saying that "If you’re a black singer, you’re either Beyoncé or Rihanna"

She told the truth and I think, aside from industry issues, their rabid fanbases have a lot to do with it.  They are so eager to tear down anyone that could potentially pose a threat to either that the few black female artists that do get some traction aren't supported.  You have Beyoncé, Rihanna___________________________________________Ciara.  That's all I got.  Solange has made some moves but she had to go a whole other route totally different from how she started out. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by funkopop

[UYI]

14 hours ago, 27bored said:

 

Another singer is Kerri Hilson. Now, most of us know that she got iced out because she did a freestyle dissing Ciara and Beyonce and their fans got mad at her and her career wasn't the same. But, if I recall correctly, Kerri Hilson had a legitimate reason to be mad. Wasn't that entire matter over a verse that she wrote and recorded, but then some behind-the-scenes shit went down and they got Beyonce to sing it instead? I'm sure this has happened many many times before, but it's kind of like, if that kind of thing had happened to Beyonce, I'm sure her fans would've been pissed off.

 

Keri Hilson sang backup on Britney Spears' Blackout, the album Britney made at the height of her breakdown. Keri said once that during the making of that album, Britney was "the Queen of the Ghost Moves", where she would disappear from the studio without anyone noticing. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by UYI

[topanga]

19 hours ago, GaT said:

Tinashe (who I think is a really good singer & entertainer) got slammed on Twitter for saying that "If you’re a black singer, you’re either Beyoncé or Rihanna"

And I agree with her. It's not fair to other talented singers, but Beyoncé and Rihanna are the black female singers who currently have the most mainstream success. 

On 9/5/2017 at 7:36 AM, funkopop said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Knowles Carter Institution did ice out Beyoncé's competition, remember Ashanti, Amerie, Leona Lewis.  When Beyoncé was getting her solo start she had so much potential competition but all those singers fell by the wayside

Is that the fault of Beyonce (and Rihanna), or is it a product of the industry? Music industry executives ultimately determine what singers to promote and market on their labels. Regardless of how much producing influencing Jay-Z had on the careers of these two women, he does not have the power to quash the careers of other singers.  And both Beyonce and Rihanna have the qualities that music executives prize: they’re black enough to be exotic, but they have light-to-medium brown skin and don’t have strong African features, which makes them acceptable to much of middle America. [I’m talking like conservative music executives—these aren’t my beliefs]. They both sing well enough to be considered legitimate, and Beyonce’s dancing skills have made her a top notch performer and entertainer. Plus, their collaboration with other singers and rappers along with their solo music means they’re constantly on the radio.

--So I think their success is product of the industry’s influence more than Jay-Z’s desires for their careers. And yes, they are talented. That certainly plays a role.

In terms of other singers, Ashanti had great mainstream success with her debut album. But her sophomore album wasn’t well-received, and she’s never been able to recover her fandom. Same thing with Brandy. Her first two albums brought lots of crossover success, but after a few poorly received albums, her music career has never recovered.

Monica has had some degree of crossover success over the years, but most of her music is considered ‘too R and B’—whatever the heck that means-- to be pop music.

I have no idea how much success Ciara has, but I remember that when she first came out, she was described in many circles as the new Beyonce. Much of her early singing even sounds like Beyonce—both her voice and the composition of the songs themselves. But she’s never had the success that I think many people anticipated.

[aradia22]

Quote

It's like there isn't one Black female who has come out who has a "normal" pop star image. I mean, Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato, Selena Gomez...they all have careers but they don't ever seem like they're elbowing each other for space.

Maybe since Beyonce is on the other side of 30 and has three children she'll fall back and let some younger females of color get some shine.

First of all, I'll just say that I think it's difficult to have this conversation because the mainstream/Top 40/pop space has become so muddled with other influences (hip hop, EDM, etc.) that even "normal pop stars" don't always sound like normal pop stars. To me, Ariana has managed to stay the most bubblegum pop because her music is not soul crushingly depressing and dreary and Demi Lovato has held out a little because she favors those big power ballads. But really everyone has fallen to the dominant trends in popular music. 

I can't think of a lot of non-white acts who were launched to be pop princesses. Maybe Jordin Sparks? 

I loved Melanie Fiona's first album (and I remember Bang Bang was mainstream enough that I think it was played on vh1) and her second album was OK. But she's been quiet for a long time. I think she's a nice middle ground. Mainstream but with a bit of an edge. 

Sonyae Elise, who won Platinum Hit, could be a Rihanna competitor but she's not mainstream. I mostly listen to her on soundcloud.

Leona Lewis is more like Whitney Houston and early Beyonce. I like her albums. I didn't listen to her Christmas album because I don't like any artist enough to listen to their Christmas album but the weird disco thing she did after that was unlistenable. The latest album was a return to form but I don't think she'll ever be a big threat. With her, I think you have to take into account how Adele and (for lack of a better term) other white blue-eyed soul artists have stepped into that space. Emeli Sande is also in that space. I like her first album OK. The second one is so dreary and self-indulgent I haven't managed to get through it yet. I don't know if I'd put Andra Day in that space or if she should be more in the neo-soul/gospel space. 

Jill Scott, Jazmine Sullivan, and Rebecca Ferguson have carved out places for themselves. I think, unfortunately, the superficiality of mainstream pop music means larger women like Jill and Jazmine will never be considered a threat to women who fit more into mainstream beauty norms even if their music is better. They all have their more artistic stuff and their more mainstream stuff. I'd say Jazmine is the most mainstream. But there's no reason based on their catalogs that they couldn't all have more mainstream hits. 

I haven't gotten to Kat Graham's new album yet but her first album feels more Rihanna than Beyonce. It doesn't really sound like either of them but it's more tough and sexual while still being catchy enough for mainstream radio. Though it's not as catchy as Rihanna's big hits which tend to be very simple. I really like Tinashe too. She has more of that chill, sleepy sound while Kat Graham's first album goes harder. Again, she doesn't sound like Rihanna or Beyonce to me. To me her sexuality comes off different from how they present theirs in their music. Her stuff is modern, it doesn't have the smoothness of old school R&B but it has that same vibe.

I fucking love Ella Eyre. I think she's great and should put out more music. Her stuff is well constructed and it's mainstream without being depressing or ballad-y. She has a very throwback sound that to me is more Amy Winehouse than anything Beyonce or Rihanna have been doing lately. What I mean by that is she's taking the styling of older genres of music but applying it to modern, mainstream kinds of songs. And it has energy and life. 

I like Izzy Bizu but she's more of a Corinne Bailey Rae.  

Three people who I haven't really listened to but who I'm surprised haven't been mentioned yet are Janelle Monae, Alicia Keys, and Jennifer Hudson. I can't really evaluate why they weren't that competitive. I think Alicia had some weak songs, Janelle seems to be switching to acting with success, and let's not get into it but I don't think Jennifer is a great actress and she has weak stage presence. 

I think Tori Kelly is the closest to Mariah Carey since as far as I know Ariana Grande is just Italian.

[27bored]

Tinashe (who I think is a really good singer & entertainer) 

got slammed on Twitter for saying that "If you’re a black singer, you’re either Beyoncé or Rihanna"

Yeah, I heard about that and I thought, well, the girl has a point. To be fair and slightly superficial, at first glance Tinashe reads Hispanic. She looks like a cute, young, sporty Hispanic chick. Even I didn't know she was mixed. And her sound recalls the sort of small voiced, sexy, dance-pop that Aaliyah used to make. Then Ciara. Then Cassie. She's in that vein. I think she could be a star if her label actually promoted her, because her first album I heard was really good. And I like "2 On".

She told the truth and I think, aside from industry issues, their rabid fanbases have a lot to do with it.  They are so eager to tear down anyone that could potentially pose a threat to either that the few black female artists that do get some traction aren't supported.  You have Beyoncé, Rihanna___________________________________________Ciara.  That's all I got.  Solange has made some moves but she had to go a whole other route totally different from how she started out. 

I agree. I think that Black females in R&B and hip-hop are having a moment, though. Similar to how Lorde ushered in a new blueprint for female pop stars -- which is how you get artists like Alessia Cara, Daya, and Halsey becoming mainstream acts -- I think there are some female R&B singers who have a brooding, dark personality. Artists like SZA, Kehlani, Kelela, Tinashe -- they have a sound rooted in "alternative-R&B" (controversial term that that is).

Is that the fault of Beyonce (and Rihanna), or is it a product of the industry? Music industry executives ultimately determine what singers to promote and market on their labels. Regardless of how much producing influencing Jay-Z had on the careers of these two women, he does not have the power to quash the careers of other singers.  And both Beyonce and Rihanna have the qualities that music executives prize: they’re black enough to be exotic, but they have light-to-medium brown skin and don’t have strong African features, which makes them acceptable to much of middle America. [I’m talking like conservative music executives—these aren’t my beliefs]. They both sing well enough to be considered legitimate, and Beyonce’s dancing skills have made her a top notch performer and entertainer. Plus, their collaboration with other singers and rappers along with their solo music means they’re constantly on the radio.

Well, for one, I think artists are very competitive, largely because they have to be. There's a lot of behind-the-scenes shit that goes on that we don't hear about, but it's why you only hear about certain people and from certain people. These artists have people who call around asking for stories to be written about them, press releases announcing their new album, offering gifts to people to write favorably about them, etc. It happens all the time. The good news is, it's what makes some people stars. The bad news is, you can't ever really go away. That's why Beyonce hasn't really taken a break in over a decade. Because she knows if she doesn't come out with an album or tour, the industry isn't going to give her all this attention. Same with Rihanna. I remember a few years ago Teyana Taylor was booked for some NFL event and they canceled her because at the last minute they got Rihanna.

So even though some celebrities seem really sweet and down-to-Earth, trust me, behind the scenes they have a team of people working to keep them out there over someone else. And I bet, if we don't see another Beyonce project in two years, when she does come back out, it's probably going to coincide with some cell phone release where it miraculously goes Platinum two days after it was released. And some people are going to be like, that's bullshit, but her fans will swear she was going to go Platinum anyway so who cares?

If you want an example of what happens when an artist does go away for awhile, look at Katy Perry and the floptastic "Witness". Even "Anti" by Rihanna undersold by expectations. And "Lemonade" was critically acclaimed, but most people haven't heard it because it's mainly on Tidal.

Three people who I haven't really listened to but who I'm surprised haven't been mentioned yet are Janelle Monae, Alicia Keys, and Jennifer Hudson. I can't really evaluate why they weren't that competitive. I think Alicia had some weak songs, Janelle seems to be switching to acting with success, and let's not get into it but I don't think Jennifer is a great actress and she has weak stage presence. 

You're right. I should've said Alicia Keys was the last mainstream Black female artist prior to Beyonce going solo. Even though, to be honest, Alicia fell off after her second album. That damn "No One" song is terrible and so is "Girl on Fire".

[topanga]

23 minutes ago, 27bored said:

Even though, to be honest, Alicia fell off after her second album. That damn "No One" song is terrible and so is "Girl on Fire".

They were very popular songs, though. 

[27bored]

Yeah they were. Not to get too far off-topic, but is it generally accepted that Alicia lost something after she stole that woman's husband? Because it seems like she did.

Quote

First of all, I'll just say that I think it's difficult to have this conversation because the mainstream/Top 40/pop space has become so muddled with other influences (hip hop, EDM, etc.) that even "normal pop stars" don't always sound like normal pop stars. To me, Ariana has managed to stay the most bubblegum pop because her music is not soul crushingly depressing and dreary and Demi Lovato has held out a little because she favors those big power ballads. But really everyone has fallen to the dominant trends in popular music. 

I can't think of a lot of non-white acts who were launched to be pop princesses. Maybe Jordin Sparks?

 

 

 

That's a good point. Most non-white acts aren't marketed as pop artists. Jordin had a song or two. I kind of think she could still have a hit single. I've said before that she's one of the best pop female vocalists of the past ten years. Easily better than Ariana and Demi. I kind of wish she would come back with a mainstream pop record. The only problem is, Jordin's not a bad girl pop-tart, so of course the industry has no interest in her.

Back to Beyonce. I wonder if her affiliation with Tidal is going to help or hurt her going forward. There was a messy roll-out of Lemonade on Tidal last year, and you can't really find the album anywhere now (I mean, unless you go actively trying to pirate it). I wonder if that's going to diminish her success a bit.

Edited September 16, 2017 by 27bored

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, 27bored said:

I wonder if her affiliation with Tidal is going to help or hurt her going forward. There was a messy roll-out of Lemonade on Tidal last year, and you can't really find the album anywhere now (I mean, unless you go actively trying to pirate it). I wonder if that's going to diminish her success a bit.

The album was on Tidal for less than 24 hours the night it was released and the night the short film debuted on HBO. Then it was on iTunes by the next day where people could very easily buy and access it. And it is currently still on iTunes. Unless this is only referring to other streaming sites like Spotify but a number of artists don't immediately put their albums on those streaming sites. Hell, Taylor Swift took every single one of her albums off every streaming site and it didn't hurt her none. Well until she wanted to screw Katy Perry over and so she put them all back the same night Katy's album was released. 

Edited September 16, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[aradia22]

Quote

 I've said before that she's one of the best pop female vocalists of the past ten years. Easily better than Ariana and Demi.

I will fight you. 

(Kidding! But yeah, I disagree.)

[funkopop]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:41 PM, 27bored said:

Yeah they were. Not to get too far off-topic, but is it generally accepted that Alicia lost something after she stole that woman's husband? Because it seems like she did.

That's the consensus that I have heard, and more salacious gossip forums contribute it to her no longer messing with women.

[TheGreenKnight]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 6:41 PM, 27bored said:

That's a good point. Most non-white acts aren't marketed as pop artists. Jordin had a song or two. I kind of think she could still have a hit single. I've said before that she's one of the best pop female vocalists of the past ten years. Easily better than Ariana and Demi. I kind of wish she would come back with a mainstream pop record. The only problem is, Jordin's not a bad girl pop-tart, so of course the industry has no interest in her.

This is on the mark. Jordin's voice is definitely superior to Ariana's and no question to Demi's, who does nothing but screech off-key 70% of the time. I think it's a shame she is no longer a popular act--her and Leona Lewis's careers both flamed out around the same time--but a great deal has to do with the fact that she has a wholesome image. I don't know how many times I've heard people say she has no personality because of it. Clearly most people want crazy, sex, arrogance, etc. because that's more 'interesting' than someone elegant and healthy (mentally).