The Beyonce Topic

[nymusix]

As I'm sure many of you are aware, Beyonce released her new album on iTunes with zero fanfare late last night.

Can anyone speak to if it's any good? I've never been a particularly big fan of hers to be honest. However, I can listen to Kate McKinnon as Ann Romney quote Beyonce over and over:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HL7ffdWz3k

(Apologies for the quality, this was the best I could find on YouTube.)

[Michele]

I was actually going to post about this, but seeing as how I don't own it, it didn't feel right. However, I have heard it (the person in makeup class was playing the videos as they were working) and I actually dug it. I love the idea of how she just dropped it and everyone flipped out (and it sold 80K in about three hours with no warning whatsoever). I love, love, love the concept of a visual album because I adore music videos and they all look really good. It goes to show that if you're good/popular enough, you don't need to spend money on promotion. That's sort of awesome and scary at the same time.

[Kate]

I like it. It's strongest in the sexy-Rhianna kind of stuff. There isn't a monster single like "Countdown" or "love on top" in the bunch so there's an argument to be made that it sounds like a b-sides collection.

The videos are kind of awesome. "Blow" in particular is super cool.

[Dejana]

Oooh, a music section! Still listening to this album all the time, months later. I get a little obsessed with a different song every week or two; right now it's Superpower, before it was Yonce, then Flawless, and Blue (so adorable at the end when Blue Ivy is saying "Beyonce" in her baby talk way).

I really love how she dropped the album out of no where twelve days before Christmas, and that it's been such a big success for her.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Dejana

[27bored]

I figured Bouncy deserves her own thread.

 

I'll say this: I've always found Beyonce to be aggressively overrated. Like, just when we start to chill on her, she does something that her fans and the industry decide is the best shit ever and started singing her praises. Over and over and over. It's not that she's great at everything; it's that her fans are super obnoxious. I really don't have a problem with her fans -- stans do what stans do -- but they give the impression that Beyonce has a bunch of "haters" when really they just overreact to the slightest dissent of her greatness. If you watch a YouTube video of hers and say you don't like it, thirty-five people are going to respond with how great she is and how you couldn't do it better...and you're the hater and the one with the problem.

 

I think I like Beyonce as a person. She goes away. She seems sweet and down to Earth. She works hard. But her image is all sex, and it's not particularly remarkable. It's just very obvious and unnuanced.

 

The video for "Formation" is whatever. This half-rap, half-singing thing is tired, and I have no idea why people are acting like it's so controversial. Please. Her people sent out press releases to major media sites to drum up some publicity for her. And that Superbowl performance was wack, too. Oh wow, you mean Beyonce is doing yet another step-routine ass song in a one-piece? She's changing the game, y'all. Really the most interesting thing is that Beyonce is putting on some weight and she's moving closer to self-parody. She looks less like she wants you to get in Formation and more like she's Stingy with her Kutty Kat.

[Ohwell]

Don't even get me started.  I really don't hate her--she seems like a nice woman--but I'm tired of everyone falling over her.  Someone several years ago commented about her being on Oprah's show and her falling over Beyonce so much that she loved the corns on Beyonce's feet.  Or words to that effect.  

 

I give her props for working hard but I can't say I've been that big a fan of her music.  The put a ring on it song was cute but that's about it.  Plus, when she opens her mouth she just sounds....not too smart.

 

People can call me a hater if they want but it's just my opinion of her as a performer.  I liked Kelly Rowland much better.

[methodwriter85]

What kills me about Beyonce is that she forces songwriters to give her writing credits (and therefore their royalties) so she can call herself a songwriter, when her actual involvement is pretty minimal. That just offends me. And the media is never allowed to call her on that.

 

I mean, really though. She's a pop R&B singer. Does anyone really think people generations down the line are going to care about "Bootylicious" or "Single Ladies" the way they do about "Where Did the Love Go?" or "Ain't No Mountain High Enough"? And her attempts at being deep- like "Pretty Hurts" or "The Best Thing You Never Had" are nice, but again, I doubt we're still going to care about even that stuff the way we do about things that had actual soul and depth in it, like "Waterfalls", which came out over twenty years ago but people still love it and talk about that song.

 

 

And that Superbowl performance was wack, too. Oh wow, you mean Beyonce is doing yet another step-routine ass song in a one-piece? She's changing the game, y'all. Really the most interesting thing is that Beyonce is putting on some weight and she's moving closer to self-parody. She looks less like she wants you to get in Formation and more like she's Stingy with her Kutty Kat.

 

I mean, look at Beyonce's mom. That is basically her future look, and it's been interesting to see her do her best to delay her inevitable slide into becoming a bigger woman. She's already in her mid-30's and it's going to become only harder. I feel like unless Beyonce actually gives us something other than Sex, she's going to be officially done once she can't look good in a unitard anymore.

 

I do appreciate that after being in our faces all the time from circa 2003 to 2009, she basically disappeared except for when she has an album she wants to promote. Taylor Swift could take some lessons on how to actually make people miss you.

Edited February 14, 2016 by methodwriter85

[vibeology]

And I love Beyoncé. I do believe that she's a lightning rod for criticism and hate because she's successful, black and female all at once. I do side eye her for the songwriting issue because that's not okay, but overall she's someone with immense talent and serious drive.

As for Formation, I like it but I also know it's not for me. That's about Beyoncé celebrating her southern Black heritage. For someone with her level of fame to do that is pretty important. I'm not a Stan, but I do thin Beyoncé challenges pop culture and makes the music scene way more interesting.

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't mind her but I am in agreement with the observations about her fans.  She's flawless as far as they're all concerned and it's irritating.  The "Queen Bey!" and "all hail the queen!" shit is really over the top.

 

Has it ever been proven she does that with songwriting or is that just a rumor?  I just ask because I have no idea.

 

I do applaud her for being female and getting out there and doing it.  I also applaud her for being a bigger girl who's not afraid to show it off.  We need more of that so people stop making disgusting comments about her body.

[topanga]

 

I'll say this: I've always found Beyonce to be aggressively overrated. Like, just when we start to chill on her, she does something that her fans and the industry decide is the best shit ever and started singing her praises. Over and over and over. It's not that she's great at everything; it's that her fans are super obnoxious. I really don't have a problem with her fans -- stans do what stans do -- but they give the impression that Beyonce has a bunch of "haters" when really they just overreact to the slightest dissent of her greatness. If you watch a YouTube video of hers and say you don't like it, thirty-five people are going to respond with how great she is and how you couldn't do it better...and you're the hater and the one with the problem.

I like your term "aggressively overrated," but I guess I don't go to the right places to see or read about her adoring fans. My experiences from reading comments on the Internet are that for every Beyoncé fan who buys her music, there are two or three other people who hate her and think she's an overrated and un-talented, not to mention overweight, hack who put voodoo on JZ to get him to fall in love with her. 

 

• Do I think she's a great singer? She's average in terms of professional singers, but I can't deny that Beyonce's voice has a unique sound that makes her songs quite recognizable and some might say unforgettable. 

 

• Is she a great dancer? Definitely. I think her music videos play a huge role in her popularity (as they also did for Michael and and Janet Jackson). 

 

• Does she write her songs? I have no idea. I'll leave it up to you experts. I do think she's a savvy business woman, and if she "forced" her name into the songwriting credits of her songs, maybe this is the universe righting a wrong and paying back all of the singers from the 50's and 60's--many of them black women--who never received songwriting credits for their hugely popular songs, even if they did write the lyrics. Many of these artists received tiny fractions of the money they actually deserved for their music.

 

• Is she a beacon of feminism and female empowerment? I'm scratching my head on that one: she  does sing empowering songs like Independent Woman, Me, Myself, and I, and Irreplaceable, but also she did a booty dance on the Grammys (?)  when her husband sang "99 Problems (But a B**** Aint One)." And she danced along with JZ's impression of domestic abuser Ike Turner.

 

• Is she a good actress? Not really, but I don't have a problem with that. Neither was Whitney Houston, and Whitney kept making movies.Many movie stars aren't great actors. Oh, I do think she gave a great performance in "Cadillac Records."

 

• Was she ever really pregnant? IDK. That pillow did flatten on when she sat down to do the interview on someone's show (I can't remember which show it was). If she and JZ used a surrogate, I wish they would just admit it. There's no shame in it. So why lie about it?

 

• Is Beyoncé pretty? I think she is, but she also has the "accepted" look for a pretty Black woman: light skin, facial features that aren't especially African, almond, medium-brown eyes, and she's got long, blond hair. (I know she wears a weave, but Beyoncé's real hair is long and medium-brown). 

 

--Bottom, line, I do like Beyoncé's command of her career, and I admire her success. I do like most of her music. And I think Beyoncé has the "It" factor that makes people stand up and take notice whenever she does, well anything. But I don't agree that she's universally loved. I think just as many people hate her, and that hate is often as irrational as her fans' rabid devotion. 

Edited February 15, 2016 by topanga

[GaT]

I don't really understand the Beyonce worship either, but whatever. What really annoys me for some reason is that every time I've seen her perform on a show (never seen her actually live, but I assume it's the same) a ton of her performance is lip synced so she can dance. Now I understand not being able to dance & sing like that at the same time, but she's supposed to be a singer, if someone is paying big money to hear you sing live, then sing LIVE. Let your back up dancers do the dancing, that's what they're there for.

[27bored]

Has it ever been proven she does that with songwriting or is that just a rumor?  I just ask because I have no idea.

 

It's pretty much an open secret, sort of like her lip-synching to live versions of her songs during shows. The latter was found out when it came out that she lip-synched the SSB at the 2nd Inauguration. Her fans insisted she didn't until they showed a picture of her in the studio with the band the day before. OOPS! So she had to sing it at that press conference to show that yes, I can sing live when I want to.

 

The songwriting thing has come up plenty of times over the years. Many journalists don't ask her about songwriting because she doesn't actually write much. My guess is she has a lot to do with the song-making process, even if she isn't actually writing her bars. I think Beyonce has a good ear for vocal arrangements (being from a girl group and all...) and how songs should sound, and so she helps craft them after a certain point. It's not a huge deal in theory, but when people talk about her like every song she releases is amazing, it's hard not to want to douse them with cold water. She's talented and pretty and works hard, but let's not get carried away.

 

Other thing is, at a certain point, I...don't know how good Beyonce is versus her just getting attention for everything she does. Formation isn't a particularly remarkable song; the MOR music video might get people talking for ten minutes, but whatever. Bey is ramping up the sex politics shit after seeing Adele do what she did off a classy, if-it-ain't-broke ballad. And why is Beyonce going on tour so soon? She just got off tour, like, a little over a year ago. I don't know if she has the material to tour again. People are going to pay good money to hear her do the same material she just got through doing? O...K.

[topanga]

Is this going to be a "Beyoncé ain't all that" thread? Just asking.

--I'm not a Beyoncé worshiper, but the posts so far seem overwhelmingly negative. 

 

I mean, a lot of singers/dancers lip sync through at least part of their shows--Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson, Brittney Spears, etc.

[27bored]

It's kind of cathartic to get the Hate out of the way. I think plenty of people are tired of the Beyonce praise. That said, I'm sure eventually this thread will just turn into a news-y type thread.

 

The thing about her lip-synching isn't that she's especially bad for doing it. It's that she does it -- many of her fans doubt that -- and that makes her many other people in the industry. Not some savant genius of performing.

[vibeology]

I like Beyoncé's approach to the lipsynching. Most of the time, its not lip synching so much as it is pre-recording a live track, singing over it during the verses so that the vocals sound layered and not even trying to lip synch during the dance sections. The number of Single Ladies performances where she's not even moving her mouth are enough to convince me she's not trying to fool anyone; Beyoncé just wants to do a bit of it all and comes up with the solution that makes it work. It would be amazing if she could sing live and dance full out, but she can't and I don't think there's anyone who really could.

[CaughtOnTape]

I don't mind the lip synching thing.  Living in Denver, people HAVE to lip synch here.  They can't breath.  I think expecting an artist to sing live and dance is expecting a bit much.

 

As for the SSB, I didn't get the big deal about lipping that either.  Clearly the woman can sing, she's proven that.  Whitney lipped hers too and I don't think anyone would say she couldn't sing.  That's one of the hardest songs in the world to sing so it doesn't bother me.  Better than singing live and screwing the words up a la Ms. Aguilera.

[27bored]

Again: this is why Beyonce gets flack. She lip-syncs like a lot of other singers That makes her par for the course, not exceptional. The issue with the SSB at the Inauguration was, Beyonce? You have sold millions of records, you've been singing all your life, you have umpteen Grammy's...but you can't make your way through the national anthem at a once-in-a-lifetime event like a Presidential Inauguration? I'm sorry but that's wack. If you're doing a show and there's a lot of dancing and whatnot going on, eh. I still think you need to sing more than lip-sync, but I get it. But if you can't stand there and sing the national anthem at a major event like that, you don't need to be up there. Period. That's one of the most basic things any aspiring singer does: singing the national anthem at a sporting event. 

 

Hell, Kelly Clarkson sang right before her and sang live. Beyonce could have; she just didn't. So she deserved all the flack she got for that. And if I recall, she kind of made a show of looking like she was singing live, with the removal of the ear piece and whatnot. Girl, bye.

 

Christina did fuck up the SSB, but that was probably because she was trying to add too many runs into each phrase. And she did something else singers shouldn't do: she didn't finish her rehearsal. TMZ showed her rehearsing and getting it right, but she just stopped in the middle and walked away.

[CaughtOnTape]

It's not that serious.  LOL

[ramble]

I don't care for her so I don't really pay much attention, but I would request, if anyone gives a sweet patootie, that the unitard/leotard die a quick, painful death that it can never be reborn from.

[topanga]

I don't care for her so I don't really pay much attention, but I would request, if anyone gives a sweet patootie, that the unitard/leotard die a quick, painful death that it can never be reborn from.

This I must agree with. She wears that damn onesie all the time: in concerts and in most of her live appearances. It was nice the first time (or two or three) to see a curvy girl be willing to wear something so revealing, but it isn't the most flattering look for her. Yet she insists on wearing it. A lot. 

[Archery]

I guess I am officially an old woman, because I don't like the profanity in songs and I wish she'd put on some pants.  Otherwise I think she's an excellent dancer, and some of her songs I flat-out love (Irreplaceable, Flaws and All, and If I Were a Boy, especially).

[27bored]

This heifer. So it appears Beyonce is trying to do a sequel to 2013 where she performed on the Super Bowl, went on tour, released an HBO special, and then released an album "without any advance notice or promo". Expect a video anthology for Formation and for people to lose their shit over it.

[UYI]

Of course, some of the momentum of a "surprise album" is lost when you've already gone that route before. 

 

Not that the Beyhive cares, though.

 

(GOD, I hate the nickname.) 

[27bored]

Me too. I call them "the Orphanage" because they act like Beyonce is mother, for real. And she doesn't know y'all motherfuckers.

 

Just got through watching Eve's Bayou-meets-Beloved-meets-Tyler-Perry-set-to-Beyonce, otherwise known as "Lemonade". I...liked it? I don't know. It kinda lost steam towards the end. It was a nice combination of ratchet and artsy. I don't know how I feel about Beyonce's knowing statements about being "the baddest chick in the game" and having "bomb pussy" and whatnot. The "Denial" section was good. and her spiel about wearing the other woman's skin and hair and using her teeth as confetti and her sternum as a bedazzled cane, then with the braids and the mink coat and the foul language (and we've heard Beyonce curse before but damn) and saying "this is your final warning. You know I give you life. You try this shit again, you're gonna lose your wife". It wasn't just the fakey "B-girl" shit she does; this felt real and atonal and out-of-character. Even the vignettes dealing with Apathy and Emptiness felt well-acted and yet real. Her saying "so what are you going to say at my funeral now that you've killed me?" She mentioned being the mother of his children, both living and dead (reference to her miscarriage, which counts as a low-blow that's meant to hurt and shows she's...still thinking about that). It worked. The emotions felt raw and real.

 

It was moving to see the mothers of Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown, clearly emotional. The protest song she did was alright, too. But overall, it wasn't as interesting. They had a few clips of Jay-Z looking directly into the camera and it's like, whew. That's a mug only a mother and a wife could love.

 

I will say the parallels she drew between her father having an affair and a child, a daughter, out of wedlock, and Jay-Z cheating on her, were interesting. It shows a fair amount of honesty and and introspection on her part.

 

Last but not least, there were some other interesting guest appearances, my favorite being Serena Williams. Beyonce had to be really secure giving her so much camera time. Serena has more ass than a little bit, and while she can't move as well as Beyonce (she's a tennis player not a performer), she loved just as good as Beyonce in that skimpy ass outfit she had on. Damn.

[TwistedandBored]

Damn! This is turning into Anti-Beyonce thread. 

 

Anyways, I love her. I think she is great singer and overall entertainer. I also enjoyed listening to her new album Lemonade. 

[DearEvette]

I loved Lemonade, both the visual experience and the music.  i wasn't as impressed by Beyonce (the previous visual album), it felt like very much the same Beyonce pop stuff, the tracks on Lemonade feel fresh and smart.  That Daddy song, with the country vibe is excellent.  I think that'll be the breakout if it is released as a single.  The Reggae-ish song, the rock-tinged one she did with Jack White, the Freedom anthem and the Six Inch (very low and throbby) all were my favorites.  And so different from each other and so very Un-Beyonce.

 

I like her fine.  Her fans can be a bit much, but they don't bother me.  I find them kinda fun actually.  I just feel sometimes everything is so negative all the time that it is good to just enjoy it when someone revels in something they like and enjoy in an apologetic, enthusiastic way. 

 

if nothing else, I truly respect her hustle.  She's a business woman.  And frankly she is black and I am here for her because I always like seeing black women triumph in their chosen fields.

[27bored]

And so different from each other and so very Un-Beyonce.

 

Yeah, that is true. She played with some styles and even ways of singing that were out of the norm for her. The "Anger" song reminded me of a song Justin Timberlake did on the 20/20 Experience Part 1. Where it was angry and distorted. He performed it on SNL.

[TwistedandBored]

I loved Lemonade, both the visual experience and the music.  i wasn't as impressed by Beyonce (the previous visual album), it felt like very much the same Beyonce pop stuff, the tracks on Lemonade feel fresh and smart.  That Daddy song, with the country vibe is excellent.  I think that'll be the breakout if it is released as a single.  The Reggae-ish song, the rock-tinged one she did with Jack White, the Freedom anthem and the Six Inch (very low and throbby) all were my favorites.  And so different from each other and so very Un-Beyonce.

 

I like her fine.  Her fans can be a bit much, but they don't bother me.  I find them kinda fun actually.  I just feel sometimes everything is so negative all the time that it is good to just enjoy it when someone revels in something they like and enjoy in an apologetic, enthusiastic way. 

 

if nothing else, I truly respect her hustle.  She's a business woman.  And frankly she is black and I am here for her because I always like seeing black women triumph in their chosen fields.

 

This soo much!

 

Her last album was more about celebrating her sexuality and I like that fine but Lemonade was really about her journey as woman who has been betrayed. I felt sad, angry, and hope in the end. It was amazing to her do many different genre of music in one album. Just amazing. 

 

I am not involved in the Beyonce fandom, I am a casual fans of hers who just downloads the song and listens to them. So, I really don't care about the Beyhives. Didn't even know they were called that until I came on twitter. However, Beyonce fans might be problematic but then every artist has a problematic fans. Let's not pretend it is just only the Behives. They just get more coverage because of Beyonce. 

[DearEvette]

I am not involved in the Beyonce fandom, I am a casual fans of hers who just downloads the song and listens to them. So, I really don't care about the Beyhives. Didn't even know they were called that until I came on twitter. However, Beyonce fans might be problematic but then every artist has a problematic fans. Let's not pretend it is just only the Behives. They just get more coverage because of Beyonce. 

 

i think it might also just be exacerbated by the nature of social media.   I would probably characterize most of her fans as people like you or me.  But there is vocal group of superfans who hype her a lot.  It can be annoying sometimes.  But I think the combination of what is sometimes the hyper scrutiny of Bey -- I mean how many think pieces does this one woman inspire --  plus some of the criticism that feels tinged in misogyny and racism, gets them really defensive and brings out even the casual fan to defend her.  And of course nothing whips up a tempest like twitter!   But otoh, it just sweet to see  people like Janet Mock or Serena Williams just being super fangirly. 

 

And it is official my favorite track is Daddy Lesson.  Love the Zydeco flavor of it.

[TwistedandBored]

i think it might also just be exacerbated by the nature of social media.   I would probably characterize most of her fans as people like you or me.  But there is vocal group of superfans who hype her a lot.  It can be annoying sometimes.  But I think the combination of what is sometimes the hyper scrutiny of Bey -- I mean how many think pieces does this one woman inspire --  plus some of the criticism that feels tinged in misogyny and racism, gets them really defensive and brings out even the casual fan to defend her.  And of course nothing whips up a tempest like twitter!   But otoh, it just sweet to see  people like Janet Mock or Serena Williams just being super fangirly. 

 

And it is official my favorite track is Daddy Lesson.  Love the Zydeco flavor of it.

 

I agree. I think her causal fans only get involved when coverages of her has double meaning and some dog-whistle statements. I remember getting very defensive of her over the whole Formation thing. Like they were so OTT with it. 

 

Anyways, I think Hold up, Sorry, 6 Inch, Daddy Lessons, Forward (those pictures did me in), and Freedom are my favorite so far. 

[27bored]

I think the reason the Beyhive looms so large is that you have mainstream publications -- not obscure blogs or blogs that only follow social media trends -- talking about them. It's one thing to talk about her fans going in on someone on The Shade Room, but they shouldn't be getting mentioned in front page CNN articles or NYT features. It's like they're relevant because they're riding on her relevance.

 

Plus, you have journos who write for heavily-circulated publications who appear to be members of the Beyhive themselves. They will devote prime real estate to splashy articles about how wonderful Beyonce is. It's a little creepy.

 

Also, it's interesting that her popularity has reached a fever pitch in the last few years when, overall, her last two albums haven't been that commercially viable. None of her singles from 4 cracked the Top 10 (I think), and her BEYONCE album sold well due to strategic marketing and giving the other looks she had that year (Super Bowl, Presidential Inauguration, World Tour, HBO documentary), but Drunk in Love and Partition did just okay commercially. It kind of felt like she was on a downturn for a minute.

 

I remember reading something -- I think it was on Pitchfork, but I can't find it right now so maybe I'm just making this up -- about Drunk in Love that seems prescient given Lemonade. It said (to paraphrase) that Drunk in Love seemed like a bit of a ruse, and that in a few years we're going to look back at it and realize it was all just a grand scheme or trick. I felt that way too. Beyonce got real raunchy on BEYONCE and overtly sexual and it felt...contrived. Now, given Lemonade, even though it appears they're still together, the euphoria of monogamous sex she extolled on BEYONCE seems, yeah, like a ruse.

 

It obviously wasn't that good.

Edited April 25, 2016 by 27bored

[MsDiva2007]

I didn't take lemonade as a shot at Jay Z. Lemonade I feel was about her mom and dad. I think it was about women learning the lessons from the bad situations and taking all that bitterness and bottling it and making some sweet lemonade out of. The best revenge is success. 

[Queena]

I loved Lemonade, both the visual experience and the music. i wasn't as impressed by Beyonce (the previous visual album), it felt like very much the same Beyonce pop stuff, the tracks on Lemonade feel fresh and smart. That Daddy song, with the country vibe is excellent. I think that'll be the breakout if it is released as a single. The Reggae-ish song, the rock-tinged one she did with Jack White, the Freedom anthem and the Six Inch (very low and throbby) all were my favorites. And so different from each other and so very Un-Beyonce.

I like her fine. Her fans can be a bit much, but they don't bother me. I find them kinda fun actually. I just feel sometimes everything is so negative all the time that it is good to just enjoy it when someone revels in something they like and enjoy in an apologetic, enthusiastic way.

if nothing else, I truly respect her hustle. She's a business woman. And frankly she is black and I am here for her because I always like seeing black women triumph in their chosen fields.

This! I have never been a Beyonce fan. She's made a couple of songs that I've liked, but Formation.... I like that one! Negro noses, Afro's, and Messy Mya? I honestly thought that Solange had wrote the song and directed the video. Lemonade surprised me in a very good way!

[KatWay]

 

I didn't take lemonade as a shot at Jay Z. Lemonade I feel was about her mom and dad. I think it was about women learning the lessons from the bad situations and taking all that bitterness and bottling it and making some sweet lemonade out of. The best revenge is success.

 

Maybe it was about both, but the Jay Z allegations seemed like a big part of it to me. He only showed up halfway through, in bits and parts before he could show his face, like he had to earn his way back into her good graces. And her lyrics were pretty clear, combined with what we know about his cheating.

[truthaboutluv]

I love the album. Yes, I find the Beyhive insufferable but frankly, Taylor Swift's Swifties or whatever the hell they're called are just as freaking insufferable. The fact is fandoms tend to be rabid and over the top when it comes to whoever they're stanning for. And yes, I totally side-eye Beyonce and her "writing" credits. Not to mention that the number of writers I have seen listed on her songs, some of which were pretty basic, is kind of sad in my opinion. Like no song should have FIFTEEN damn writers...WTF? And especially when the lyrics aren't exactly Chaucer levels of amazing. 

 

But all that being said, I genuinely loved the album, more so than Beyonce. I especially give her props for stepping outside herself and trying somethings new. Daddy Lessons is not a sound I think ANYONE ever expected to hear from Beyonce, certainly not when we going Crazy In Love or Single Ladies with her. Don't Hurt Yourself is so clearly a Jack White-produced track but that's not a bad thing. And after rolling my eyes at the desperate lengths her fans were going to, to try and make Formation some huge black anthem, I'll give it up to her that Freedom delivers on that. Of course, I have a feeling that's because of the Kendrick Lamar connection. That song was VERY Kendrick Lamar. 

 

My other favorites are Pray You Catch Me, Sorry, Sandcastles and Hold Up. Honestly, the only song I'm not impressed with and that's been the case since it came out, is Formation. I still think that song's awful and listening to it along with the entire album, that's even more so in my opinion because it just does not stack up at all. And what's worse, that's one of the songs that required something like seven writers. 

 

I'm not going to speculate about the stuff about her marriage because frankly while I don't doubt for a second that Jay-Z cheated and likely continues to cheat (ratchet though Wendy Williams may be, I thought she was dead on in her read of that elevator situation with Jay-Z and Solange), I also think Beyonce is a shrewd businesswoman. In other words, she knew exactly what she was doing here, in that all the speculation would only fuel interest in the album and songs while she'll never confirm or deny anything, only adding to mystery, and speculation. Also, while I don't doubt she loves her husband and he loves her, at this point Beyonce and Jay-Z are a brand, a brand who knows how to keep themselves successful and relevant. A little cynical but hey, I'm not passing judgement, just calling it as I see it. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[DearEvette]

I also think Beyonce is a shrewd businesswoman. In other words, she knew exactly what she was doing here, in that all the speculation would only fuel interest in the album and songs while she'll never confirm or deny anything, only adding to mystery, and speculation. Also, while I don't doubt she loves her husband and he loves her, at this point Beyonce and Jay-Z are a brand, a brand who knows how to keep themselves successful and relevant. A little cynical but hey, I'm not passing judgement, just calling it as I see it. 

 

I believe she knew what she was doing, but I also believe this album is very personal.  As I was watching this I had this vision of Bey furiously journalling all her emotions during her marriage as well as her betrayal by her father.  And then turning them into this.  The structure of The movie/album feels like it is about a woman who confronts the sorry state of her marriage.  And her disappointment in her father.  The two get conflated in the movie a lot because I think she has to because they both cheated.  At one point there is a young girl looking into the camera and the words spoken say "are you talking about your husband or your father?"

 

It is funny to think about this in light of the Beyonce album that came before it.  Because the overt sexuality of that album, the message behind Flawless and Pretty Hurt, now in retrospect sound like a woman who was desperately in denial.  So the Denial part of Lemonade really makes sense in that context. And then comes the words to all the songs in the Anger portion where she makes statements about "bomb ass pussy" and how good he had it in bed with her.  Also how she got her own money and doesn't need his.  And she can take her child and they can live fine.  There is a lot of posture and blustering.  But there is also an undercurrent of humiliation too. 

 

The thing that got me the most, though, was the sheer joy on her face when she is in that yellow dress breaking windows.  I get the feeling that that joy is her actually putting him on blast with this and then in the end the Freedom anthem is about not hiding it anymore.  Imagine how stressful it must be to be Beyonce and project this image of the perfect marriage with Jay when the entire world suspects he's cheating?

 

In the end, yeah they are a brand and yeah this is very much a shrewd move by her but I see it more as a personal power move.  She took him back, but we got to see her put his clothes out on the lawn and burn his car down.  It was no mistake, imo, that there were quite a few scenes in Lemonade that were reminiscent of that Angela Bassett scene in Waiting to Exhale with her walking away from burning car.

[topanga]

I'm not going to speculate about the stuff about her marriage because frankly while I don't doubt for a second that Jay-Z cheated and likely continues to cheat (ratchet though Wendy Williams may be, I thought she was dead on in her read of that elevator situation with Jay-Z and Solange), I also think Beyonce is a shrewd businesswoman. In other words, she knew exactly what she was doing here, in that all the speculation would only fuel interest in the album and songs while she'll never confirm or deny anything, only adding to mystery, and speculation. Also, while I don't doubt she loves her husband and he loves her, at this point Beyonce and Jay-Z are a brand, a brand who knows how to keep themselves successful and relevant. A little cynical but hey, I'm not passing judgement, just calling it as I see it. 

I haven't listened to the album yet, but Beyonce knew who Jay Z was before she married him. I remember Wendy Williams talking years ago on her radio show that Jay Z cheated on his then-girlfriend Beyonce with Free (from 106th and Park--that's how long ago this was). Whether or not it was true, the rumors were out there even when they were dating. 

[truthaboutluv]

I believe she knew what she was doing, but I also believe this album is very personal.

 

The two are not mutually exclusive. As I said, I don't doubt for a second that Jay-Z cheats. As the poster above rightly noted, it's a fact that's been speculated about and rumored for years, back when they were just dating. And frankly, I don't know why some are acting so surprised by this because did no one listen to Ring The Alarm and Resentment on her B-Day album? What did people think those songs were about?

 

I'm just saying that I'm not going down the path of this "female power, relationship anthem, what it all means, yada, yada" because I feel like that's partly why it was done. Again, not saying she isn't singing her truth but let's just say at this point Beyonce's truth is so deeply intertwined with her brand and image and career, it's practically one in the same. Yes, she wanted to share something personal but I do also believe she knew it would get tongues wagging and speculation flowing and that's not a bad thing for her career and album sales at the end of the day. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[DkNNy79]

I'm pretty neutral on Beyoncé.  I don't love her, but I don't hate her.  I do think she's a little overrated.  That's how I feel about Rihanna as well.  B is beautiful though.  So when her and Jay Z got together, I was a little stunned.  I know I'm being judgemental, but I lose a little respect for women who take back cheaters (Hillary included), especially these woman who can stand on their own feet and who are not dependent on their husbands for financial security.  But she is ambitious and I gotta give her props for building her empire. 

 

I do agree the fandoms are out of control, whether its the Beyhive, the Swifties, Demi Lovato's fans.  Poor Rachael Ray getting attacked by the Beyhive just because her name is similar to Rachel Roy.

[27bored]

The fandom thing is strange for another reason: hypocrisy. These same publications that enjoy talking about the "Beyhive" attacking people would be the first ones to run an article about the effects of cyber-bullying. I know it's not exactly the same, but Beyonce being their favorite singer/celebrity is not reason to troll anyone who says something they dislike. Because like I said, she doesn't know, nor does she care, about any of them. If you could meet her, would you tell her you spend several hours a day looking at her mentions on Twitter so you can flame any and all detractors of her greatness? Probably not. So, why do it?

 

The one bit of shade I'll throw at Lemonade is this: had someone like Jazmine Sullivan did the same album, most people wouldn't give a shit. I know that might sounds like a non-insult, but what I'm saying is, since Beyonce has talked in the past about separating her private life from her music, and wanting people to enjoy her art as opposed to just being interested in her personal life, I'm trying to do that. And it seems to me that it wouldn't be so "stunning" if it were an artist we didn't almost ritualistically overrate.

 

In the end, yeah they are a brand and yeah this is very much a shrewd move by her but I see it more as a personal power move.  She took him back, but we got to see her put his clothes out on the lawn and burn his car down.  It was no mistake, imo, that there were quite a few scenes in Lemonade that were reminiscent of that Angela Bassett scene in Waiting to Exhale with her walking away from burning car.

 

Exactly. One thing about Beyonce that I've always respected is that up until now she's never really tried to use her relationship to sell records. You could tell some of her songs were probably about Jay Z, but it was still just entertainment. With Lemonade, she's putting all her shit out in the street, and I don't think she would've just now done that out of strategy. For one thing, I have a theory that gossip sites and tabloids usually have some grain of truth. Beyonce and Jay-Z have been left alone to a big extent, given their level of visibility. So when the rumors really picked up a few years ago, I figured there was something to it. Then it was the YesLivCan chick who made the horrible rap song "Sorry Ms. Carter". Then it was the Solange fight in the elevator (which in retrospect seemed like it had something to do with Jay Z, and Solange being about that action and Beyonce more or less letting her cut up on her husband). Then there were reports of her changing lyrics during their "On the Run" tour (and by the way, very interesting that they toured together in the wake of those rumors). It all amounted to something.

 

I think Beyonce is strategic and business-savvy, but she's still a woman. And I think she was scorned and upset and channeled it through her music. I think she probably cleared it with Jay Z beforehand, but this was penance. Jay Z has had the reputation and image of being cool and calm and collected; so I don't think he would allow his image to be tainted just for the sake of artifice. I don't think Beyonce would ask him to do that. As a matter of fact, I bet most of this stuff Beyonce would not even say to Jay Z outside music. I think she sort of has to be playing a character to be that brave.

Edited April 25, 2016 by 27bored

[Sheenieb]

 

So when her and Jay Z got together, I was a little stunned.  I know I'm being judgemental, but I lose a little respect for women who take back cheaters (Hillary included), especially these woman who can stand on their own feet and who are not dependent on their husbands for financial security.  But she is ambitious and I gotta give her props for building her empire.

 

I remember being stunned as well. Beyonce came from a well to do nuclear family, had this wholesome image, and she hooks up with a former drug dealer who stabbed someone? It was next level opposites attract. But he seemed to have matured during the course of their relationship.

 

Unfortunately, women are expected to take back and make allowances for cheaters. We either blame ourselves for not looking our best/being too busy/not putting out as much as he wants. The worst is, most of the time, we're told from the women in our own families that "we won't do better."

 

Which leads me to what I really liked about Lemonade: the generational aspect. Women have been dealing with heartache and betrayal from men since time immemorial. The hurt and excuses get passed on from mother to daughter; rinse, lather, repeat. We all know that Beyonce doesn't need Jay to take care of her, but she joins countless women who've stayed for their own personal reasons. Perhaps it made their marriage stronger, and Jay is officially on "act right."

 

Or, he's on notice.

 

She may have known who he was when they married, but he knew who she was, as well. He also chose to commit. If there was infidelity, which it seems obvious that it was, then it was up to him to honor his commitment. Bey doesn't strike me as the type to be cavalier about her affection. When she commits, she commits.

[Ohwell]

Maybe Beyonce wouldn't have been so butt hurt if Jay Z had been handsome; as it was maybe she thought he had some nerve cheating on her.  I mean, she would have been hurt anyway, but damn...

[27bored]

As shallow as that is, I have to co-sign on it. I'd go in too if Jay-Z's camel-looking ass cheated on me.

[Grace19]

I don't think people really get why bey is famous. Its not because she is the best singer (she is a great singer IMHO), it is mostly because she is a great performer just like Michael Jackson. MJ wasn't the best singer, and some of his songs were not that great, but when he is on stage, he commands your attention. Bey is just like that, in addition, she works very hard and is very professional and smart. Thats why she's successful, and it is well deserved.

Beyonce is beautiful and sexy, I don't think she's fat. Ofcourse as a curve woman, she will struggle with her weight, thats the only downside to having curvy sexy body.

Some fans can be problematic, whether as music, tv shows or movie fans or as shippers. Some go too far, so this is just not a beehive thing.

I think some of the time people just hate seeing someone at the top for years, this is especially worse for women. At first everyone loves them, but once they last long people start getting uncomfortable and want them gone, then they start writting thinkpiece on how that person is overrated. I love that 20years into her career, Beyonce is still at the top, this is no easy thing for female artists. I hope she stays there a little longer.

I'm not a beehive member, but I believe beyonce is one of the best living artist and that Lemonade is her best album.

[27bored]

I have a non-shady question: I know a lot of people, including me, mention that Beyonce works hard. She's so driven and motivated. But...how? I mean this semi-sarcastically, because a lot of Beyonce's success is hype -- media and the entertainment industry like her so they keep her name out there, which isn't to say it isn't deserved or earned, but like I said above, if Jazmine Sullivan made the same record, there wouldn't be wall-to-wall coverage -- but I'm genuinely curious how Beyonce works harder than her contemporaries. Why is she known for her work over other artists? She records music, she makes videos, and she tours. Like every other you know of and plenty of others you don't. What makes her different?

Edited April 27, 2016 by 27bored

[DearEvette]

Honestly, while I think luck plays some part in any artist hitting it big, I believe that you can;t get to that level she is at without a strong work ethic.  I think drive is something hard to quantify.  AS fans (or not fans as the case may be) we only see the result.  We don't ever actually actually see the process.  But think how much work had to go into creating a piece of work like Lemonade.  From concept to end product.  Just thinking of all the moving pieces to get to what we saw on tv.  And she absolutely controlled the message and the delivery.  Sure success builds on success so an artist like Beyonce could do something like Lemonade whereas an artist like Jazzmin probably couldn't.

I also don't think that giving her props for hard work is necessarily a comparison to someone else not working hard.  it is simply a comment about her.  Showbiz is an tricky business and there are a lot of hungry up and comers or long timers who have been working as hard as she has.  They just haven't gotten over the hump.  Like I said above you don't get to her level without a strong work ethic but that is just one element of it.  Think of all the big name artists like Madonna, Michael, Prince, Lady Gaga etc. I think they all share that same ethic,  Or as I like to call it   - hustle.  There is something extra thirsty about people like that so that the combo of Lucky break  + hard work + hustle + charisma + staying power is what makes them successful.

Also thinking about those artists is their refusal to stagnate.  They try and experiment and do some innovative things.  Madonna's sex book for instance or how she took on a different personality every tour, Lady Gaga's whole persona as performance, Prince and his various iterations... Michael and his. 

It always fascinates me when I watch a documentary of an artist after they've died (there is a recent one on Michael on Netflix I think...) and you learn so much more about their work process.  The one thing that usually stays true is that they were kinda obsessive about what they did.  My eyes opened about Michael a lot.

[AimingforYoko]

Beyoncé's Lemonade isn't a breakup album, it's a black album.

[topanga]

9 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

Beyoncé's Lemonade isn't a breakup album, it's a black album.

Great article. I agree that Lemonade is a statement on black womanhood, not just Beyonce's marriage. 

[vibeology]

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 1:27 PM, 27bored said:

I have a non-shady question: I know a lot of people, including me, mention that Beyonce works hard. She's so driven and motivated. But...how? I mean this semi-sarcastically, because a lot of Beyonce's success is hype -- media and the entertainment industry like her so they keep her name out there, which isn't to say it isn't deserved or earned, but like I said above, if Jazmine Sullivan made the same record, there wouldn't be wall-to-wall coverage -- but I'm genuinely curious how Beyonce works harder than her contemporaries. Why is she known for her work over other artists? She records music, she makes videos, and she tours. Like every other you know of and plenty of others you don't. What makes her different?

I agree with @DearEvette but I also think there's something else at play. Beyoncé has been around a while and when she came up the expectations of a pop star was singing and dancing and Beyoncé learned to do both well enough to break out. Most of her original contemporaries (Janet, Britney, Xtina, Shakira, JLo, PCD, Fergie) have slowed down a little while she is still slaying and the new girls coming up in pop music don't dance. Taylor, Selena, Katy and even Rihanna are poor dancers who do minimal choreography and count on visuals/props and personality to carry a performance. That gives the impression that Beyoncé works harder because she's doing something else that people can see. She gets credit for that because its obvious.

No one gets famous without serious effort and I'm not trying to shade the other women I mentioned because not dancing isn't a bad thing. But I think Beyoncé works very hard and she goes about her business in ways that are noticeable and will get attention and that only furthers the idea that she works hard. She knows where to put her efforts and makes smart decisions about what projects to take on to stay on top and be buzzworthy.

[quangtran]

On 27/04/2016 at 3:27 AM, 27bored said:

I have a non-shady question: I know a lot of people, including me, mention that Beyonce works hard. She's so driven and motivated. But...how? I mean this semi-sarcastically, because a lot of Beyonce's success is hype -- media and the entertainment industry like her so they keep her name out there, which isn't to say it isn't deserved or earned, but like I said above, if Jazmine Sullivan made the same record, there wouldn't be wall-to-wall coverage -- but I'm genuinely curious how Beyonce works harder than her contemporaries. Why is she known for her work over other artists? She records music, she makes videos, and she tours. Like every other you know of and plenty of others you don't. What makes her different?

I can think of a few. She always delivers a high-energy show, she stated that she records a hundred songs to whittle down for each album, people often mention that she's a perfectionist (not always a compliment because she's often dubbed as a pageant queen), and clearly she's super, super ambitious (with her outright stating that she wants to win one of each kind of award).

As for the album, I am a bit bothered with the way some casual music fans are reacting to it. It seems like there's an attitude that Lemonade album doesn't deserve this acclaim or a high Metacritic rating purely because she's a pop princess. True, and song writing credits are dubious, and she she doesn't have the pure musical talent as some of the greats, but I don't for a second that this invalidate her ability (or other people from her genre) to create a genuinely great product. Her choosing the right collaborators and using them well is actually a good thing, not a negative as has been pointed out. It bothers me a bit because as someone who liked her stuff with Destiny's Child but didn't care for her first four albums, I've become super impressed with her growth as an artist with her two recent albums.

Edited April 29, 2016 by quangtran