S04.E13: Sins Of The Father

[FormerMod-a1]

Oliver receives an offer from Nyssa that is hard to refuse. Meanwhile, Thea continues to battle the blood lust, Malcolm steps in to help his daughter, and Laurel has a heart to heart talk with Nyssa.

 

 

[hogwash]

I feel like I just watched S03 the episode. Only better than the entirety of S03. It's almost like this episode made S03 suck more retroactively. That's weird.

Malcolm is totally the "him" from the flash forwards.

[dtissagirl]

This episode was 95% snore, 5% HAHAHAHAHAHALOLS.

[EmilyBettFan]

Felicity and her father were the only good parts. Oh yeah the hand and Oliver + Felicity were really good to. Lol

[foreverevolving]

Well... did we see Malcolm knowing about William coming? and being the one to tell Dahrk? I don't think I did..

That was, interesting.

 

I would still much rather keep Malcolm than Laurel..

Nyssa giving Laurel a verbal breakdown was great.

Nyssa disbanding the league? not so much.- on the up side: I guess this means are marriage with Oliver are truly dead.

 

I am however still pissed with Oliver for not yet telling Felicity about the kid.... 

Edited February 11, 2016 by foreverevolving

[nksarmi]

I feel like it's Christmas. Things I love....

 

1. Everyone remembering that Malcolm is evil and responsible for most of the bad shit that has happened on this show.

 

2. Nyssa calling Laurel on leaving her in prison but still being able to appreciate their friendship.

 

3. Nyssa disbanding the league and destroying the ring.  Someone was paying attention to all of us hating the LoA.  Now I can look forward to Nyssa showing up without dreading it having something to do with the League.

 

4. Malcolm losing a hand! Grant it, that fight scene was weak as hell, but I'm still glad Malcolm suffered some pain.

 

5. Everyone telling Oliver to just kill Malcolm already.

 

Things I did NOT like but are still very much in character....

 

1. Oliver thinking because Thea shares Malcolm's blood it means ANYTHING.

 

2. Malcolm telling Oliver he knows about William and Oliver thinking Malcolm won't use that against him at some point.

 

3. Felicity thinking her father leaving her had anything to do with her as a child.  As someone who hasn't seen their dad since they were about the age Felicity was when her father took off - I can assure you, that it is not a requirement that a kid would grow up thinking there was something wrong with them.  I never once thought me not knowing my dad had anything to do with me and I don't know why Felicity would feel that way. I'm not nearly as awesome as she is - that's a BS writing moment.

Edited February 11, 2016 by nksarmi

[Delphi]

Awh, good Nyssa! Making smart choices.

Totally saw Oliver cutting off the hand, to be honest.

I thought the Noah and Felicity drama would last longer than an episode though. These people suck with pacing things.

I wish people would stop saying that Malcolm killed Tommy, that's not what happened.

[wonderwall]

This episode was worth it for a few reasons:

1. NYSSA
2. NO MORE LoA
3. We can probably now just love to hate Malcolm because he's full on evil
4. Felicity/Papa Smoak was awesome
5. NO MORE LoA 
6. And now we know Malcolm is the killer
7. YAY MALCOLM SUFFERS! 
8. NO. MORE. FRIGGIN. LoA!

[Jediknight]

Did Oliver really say he's lost 4 people he cared about and loved?  I'm counting 6, there's Robert, Shado, Sara, Yao Fei, Akio, and Slade.  I guess they could say that Slade and Yao Fei aren't among them, but that goes against everything we saw.

 

Nyssa isn't the new Ra's, I guess that can free her up to join Team Arrow.

[chaos is welcome]

Oliver/Felicity continually remind me they are the only reason I watch this show anymore. The flashbacks were awful, Malcolm is the worst, the # of times nyssa called Oliver husband was yuck. Burning the ring was cool though. Everything else was so zzzzzz, predictable. Feel bad for Felicity bc the ground work for the betrayal of Oliver's lie is boarderline overkill. The whole people don't change thing. Yuck.

[jay741982]

LOVED Oliver cutting off Malcolms hand. Glad that it looks like Malcolm is the one that knows about Oliver's kid. Not someone like Dig or Donna who telling Oliver he's doing the right thing will taint them in my eyes

[Guest]

I don't know how I feel about this episode. Boring at times but interesting in others. The pacing sucks though.

 

Felicity and her mom/dad was great but I wanted more. It sucks that it was wrapped up in one episode, though I knew that would happen. I love that she turned him over to the Police though. I never expected that. Awesome!

 

Oliver/Felicity were perfect, as usual (gross lie aside). I just really enjoy them together and how natural they are as a couple. The 'marry me' scene was lovely.

 

The rest though? Eh. Predictable, repetitive, meh. And some of the acting is this episode was just plain BAD.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[jay741982]

Deleted

Edited February 11, 2016 by jay741982

[dtissagirl]

DD being all super giddy that he put Felicity in a wheelchair was the most interesting piece of writing in this episode for me.

[Ann Mack]

There was really very little to like about this damn episode. I think I was annoyed more than I was enjoying it the majority of the time. I just mute all the island scenes now I really just don't give a damn. Oh this episode frustrated me the potential is there to do so much more but the show it limited by it;s lack of creativity and vision!! Ugh...... (internal screaming)!!!!

[Delphi]

[Edited by mod for spoilers.]

But perhaps you could refrain from posting that in the 4.13 episode thread.

Edited February 11, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[jay741982]

.I'm really hating that hack piece of crap Guggie cause this BMD was not needed at all. But no happy couples aren't interesting SMH. Him and writers are just lazy

Edited February 11, 2016 by jay741982

[foreverevolving]

So, Donna's "people don't change line" is so gonna be what Felicity will use when she breaks it off with Oliver, right? I mean that was like Sun sized anvil.

[cambridgeguy]

Nyssa to Oliver - I have never asked anyone to do my fighting for me.  Well, except for this episode when I've been trying to blackmail you into killing Malcom.

[jay741982]

But perhaps you could refrain from posting that in the 4.13 episode thread.

Oh shit thanks I'm deleting!

[nksarmi]

Awh, good Nyssa! Making smart choices.

Totally saw Oliver cutting off the hand, to be honest.

I thought the Noah and Felicity drama would last longer than an episode though. These people suck with pacing things.

I wish people would stop saying that Malcolm killed Tommy, that's not what happened.

 

Malcolm is responsible for Tommy's death and 502 other people.  He is also responsible for Robert Queen's death, Oliver ending up on the island, and Sara going through hell before he brainwashed Thea to kill her.  The man is evil and deserves all the blame we can lay at his feet.  I'm pretty sure he's responsible for global warming and children starving in China as well.

[chaos is welcome]

Yeah this episode felt like 4 eps of season 3 in one. I guess it was supposed to show Oliver's growth?

[apinknightmare]

So, Donna's "people don't change line" is so gonna be what Felicity will use when she breaks it off with Oliver, right? I mean that was like Sun sized anvil.

 

LOL, yes. And then Oliver's "Some people can!" LMAO

[Primal Slayer]

Overall it was an ok episode but kind of forgettable? Laurel/Nyssa had good scenes, Felicity and her father had good scenes, Malcolm is still Malcolm and a tattle tale.

 

They totally set up Olicitys breakup with Mama Smoak doing the whole "people don't change" speech. 

 

They found a way to have their cake and eat it to. Just a shame that Nyssa couldn't be the one to chop off his arm. But that entire battle was REALLY quick, quicker then it should've been given both of their skill levels. I can't really believe that the LoA would disband so easily, these people have been part of this for a LONG time and to just give it up? Nah can't buy it. But good for Nyssa for growing and not needing it anymore even though it did kind of make the entire episode useless. 

 

Malcolm must've been kidding himself with his whole speech to Oliver about the LoA. What has he done in his year of taking it over that has made it soooo much better then when anyone else has ran it? What makes him so much better then Nyssa? Did he forget what he did in S1? How he wanted revenge so  badly that he killed hundreds of people just in the name of his wife? And now that he can't have his cool club, he has to run to DD about Olivers son. The ultimate cry baby. But I didn't understand why Malcolm didn't have his men just move O.L.D. out of the way and go after Nyssa instead of huffing and puffing away.

 

I was happy that Nyssa set Oliver straight at the beginning of the episode with the whole "this is your fathers fault" but then Nyssa is all like "and yet this is all Malcolms fault, he set this all in motion" drop mic.

[janeta]

I was all, "Noooo Felicity don't let dad into the lab!" but I should have known she was on top of it. :)

William in the grave?

[jay741982]

So, Donna's "people don't change line" is so gonna be what Felicity will use when she breaks it off with Oliver, right? I mean that was like Sun sized anvil.

Ugh it probably will then here comes "that Bitch! How dare she be rightfully mad" SMH

[dtissagirl]

LOL, yes. And then Oliver's "Some people can!" LMAO

 

He's totally changed, three years ago he'd probably kill BM and kidnap the kid.

[Delphi]

Malcolm is responsible for Tommy's death and 502 other people. He is also responsible for Robert Queen's death, Oliver ending up on the island, and Sara going through hell before he brainwashed Thea to kill her. The man is evil and deserves all the blame we can lay at his feet. I'm pretty sure he's responsible for global warming and children starving in China as well.

I agree, but they keep phrasing it as Malcolm showed up to CNRI and shot Tommy in the face. Malcolm orchestrated the destruction of part of the city that Tommy wouldn't have even been in had Laurel listened and had stayed out of the Glades.

[SleepDeprived]

We finally get Felicity's Dad and we spend 2.5 seconds on that storyline. *sigh*

 

Why couldn't we have gotten an episode mostly about the Smoaks? The Calculator actually seems like a refreshingly interesting villain. He just exuded something sinister to me despite the kindly old Dad veneer. Good on Felicity for following through and turning her Dad over to the police, though. Thank goodness she had Donna raising her. On a show filled with questionable parenting, at least we have Donna as a bonafide good parent.

 

The LoA and Malcolm's (and Oliver's) insistence that he's Thea's Father is so overly-played out. Haven't we suffered enough with the whole of S3 for this storyline? Good Lord. Thanks for finally disbanding this version of the LoA, Nyssa.

 

"People don't change. Even if you want them to." Oh, hey, anvilicious dialogue to set-up the Oliver/Felicity break-up. How's it going?

[Guest]

I'm struggling for things to say, that's how much of an impression this episode made on me. LOL.

[Primal Slayer]

But you know, Oliver deserves these bad things to continue happening to him since he just won't kill Malcolm! If he killed Malcolm, life would be so simpler for him.

[nksarmi]

I agree, but they keep phrasing it as Malcolm showed up to CNRI and shot Tommy in the face. Malcolm orchestrated the destruction of part of the city that Tommy wouldn't have even been in had Laurel listened and had stayed out of the Glades.

 

Truth, but I can't blame Laurel because she really didn't understand the magnitude of the danger - no one really explained it to her. It would be nice to think I wouldn't make that kind of mistake, but I don't feel like she was given quite enough information to make a good decision.

 

And I refuse to give Malcolm a break for anything - so as far as I'm concerned, he might as well have shot Tommy in the face.

 

The one thing that gave me pause was just how BAD the fight between Oliver and Malcolm was.  I hope some parts of it got edited out or something, because it was so bad - I thought they were faking it.  Right up until Malcolm told Darhk about William.

[apinknightmare]

We finally get Felicity's Dad and we spend 2.5 seconds on that storyline. *sigh*

 

Now I understand why there weren't any interviews or publicity about it, because it was barely a storyline. 

[hogwash]

I can't believe Oliver still defended Malcolm after that bizarre rant about Nyssa being a EVUL choice for leader of the LOA. He was unhinged. It totally reminded me of his batcrap crazy rant to Tommy about the EVUL poors in the S01 finale.

 

I honestly see this episode as a way S03 could have actually worked. Oliver was still the moron he was in S03 but everyone else got to keep their brains. 

[Guest]

So is Oliver divorced now or what? Haha.

 

They really went a bit overboard with all that 'my husband' stuff didn't they? And I joked in the summer that Nyssa would say that at some point. I never meant for her to say it so many damn times! LMAO.

[popgoesculture]

This episode just leaves me with one question: why do I still watch this show?

 

I want the show about the Smoaks, and dealing with the decision to call the police on her dad. I want more conversations between Donna and Felicity about Noah (also does Donna no longer live in Las Vegas? So confusing). I want the conversation with Lance ABOUT her father. I want Diggle and Felicity talking about family members betraying them. I want Lyla's thoughts on the matter. I want Thea to have a storyline that moves beyond her being the bone of contention between these two idiotic men. 

 

I don't want the rest of it. Oliver's terrible decisions, LoA, Malcolm... any of it. Just beyond annoying and boring. And I fastforwarded the flashbacks except for the last one, because that's the only one that matters to the plot (what there is of it). 

[Trini]

So Oliver wants to make wedding plans in the same episode that kept reminding us he's married? Interesting choice, show.

[roomtorome]

Boring and I really can't stand the flashbacks - never liked them and now just really despise them.  Thank heavens for fast forward - 

 

After watching the fun that the Flash was last night, this just reminded me of how dull I find this show all the more - 

 

Really loved it the first season - oh well - 

 

And, oh, JB - how many facelifts has he had now?  He barely looks real anymore.  

 

I wish there was a more charismatic actor playing Oliver - Felicity is the most sparkling character - but, good god, Oliver is a snooze (to me, obviously)

[Chasity]

He's totally changed, three years ago he'd probably kill BM and kidnap the kid.

I kinda miss that Oliver. 

 

Anyway, this episode was not very good. The only things I liked were Olicity, the blink and you miss it Felicity/Dad story, and the Felicity/Donna scene. I like John Barrowman, but Malcolm needs to be dead by the end of the season. 

[Ann Mack]

Keep waiting for the neon lights to go off for Oliver.

 

[Morrigan2575]

Great gif.

Aww, Robin :- (

[nksarmi]

So is Oliver divorced now or what? Haha.

 

They really went a bit overboard with all that 'my husband' stuff didn't they? And I joked in the summer that Nyssa would say that at some point. I never meant for her to say it so many damn times! LMAO.

 

I laughed every time she said it.

 

So here's my take on it. Since they were only married by the laws of the League and the LoA is now gone - they aren't married.

 

If we see her again, she should call him her former husband. :)

[SleepDeprived]

Did Oliver really say he's lost 4 people he cared about and loved?  I'm counting 6, there's Robert, Shado, Sara, Yao Fei, Akio, and Slade.  I guess they could say that Slade and Yao Fei aren't among them, but that goes against everything we saw.

 

IIRC, FB!Oliver said that he's lost 4 people since Robert. So, that's Yao Fei, Shado, Sara, and Akio. I don't think he's counting Slade since Slade did try to kill him after he got Mirakuru-crazy.

 

And some of the acting is this episode was just plain BAD.

 

I'm normally fine with SA's acting choices. I think he's really good in certain scenes. But, man. His scenes with JB was filled with SO. MUCH. SHOUTING. It was just unnecessary. I mean, I know that JB chews scenery like no one's business but SA could've modified some of his acting a little bit there. If you're alluding to the FB's though, well I've long since given up on the acting on the flashbacks. If there's anything that is a constant this season, it's that the FB's will produce the most questionable acting and the least interesting portions of every episode.

[jay741982]

Aww Felicity is his Jasmine lol

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this one.  Thought the Oliver/Malcolm stuff was strong and loved him cutting off Malcolm's hand.  Definitely should have killed him.  Didn't expect Nyssa to disband the League.  Hopefully this will lead to her joining Legends of Tomorrow next season.

 

The actor playing Felicity's father reminds me in look of Brent Spiner.  I liked the Felicity stuff and was glad she approached the situation intelligently instead of buying his father's BS.

 

Hell, I thought this was even a strong episode for Laurel.

 

For some reason, DD saying "we did a number on her" and how pleased he was with that made me laugh.

[dtissagirl]

I wish they were going for some kind of fundamental difference of opinion about what family means with Oliver and Felicity. Felicity learned her father is evil. Her reaction was she told everyone about it, researched him, and then sent him to prison. Oliver's hiding a secret kid for... reasons [discussed ad nauseum], but the underlying subtext here is that Felicity doesn't think blood ties = family first, but Oliver [like Malcolm when it serves his interests] totally does.

 

And since the ~theme of the season IS family, they should be exploring that, instead of just giving each regular character a new/old family member, and calling it a theme.

Edited February 11, 2016 by dtissagirl

[foreverevolving]

Aww Felicity is his Jasmine lol

I know you meant it in an innocent way, but all I can hear now in my head is Oliver singing "A Whole New World"

Edited February 11, 2016 by foreverevolving

[jay741982]

I know you meant it in an innocent way, but all I can hear now in my head is Oliver singing "A Whole New World"

LOL!! A duet with him and Felicity maybe!?

[Trini]

We finally get Felicity's Dad and we spend 2.5 seconds on that storyline. *sigh*

 

Do we know that the actor is only here for a short time? I feel like Felicity's father being a supervillain is not something that they'd let go so easily. Plus Oliver's line about closure not coming easily.

[Delphi]

I know you meant it in an innocent way, but all I can hear now in my head is Oliver singing "A Whole New World"

But he did show her the world! Assassinations, skydiving, Bali, crazy drug dealers, it's fate!