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Sleepy Hollow in the Media

maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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DeLurker

DeLurker

 They haven't even soundly wrapped up inconsistencies and plot holes in the current story --why go introduce a completely new element that doesn't seem to tie into their already established plot arc?

Perchance to deflect us from focusing on the never ending unanswered questions, inconsistencies and plot holes?  Look Guys!  It's a SHINY Object!

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Hell, at this point, any episode without either Katrina or Henry is one I'll at least watch before I delete it from the DVR.   While I'm glad to see Capt Irving get some screen time and a story, as might have been expected he will be completely detached from any of the main cast, from the sound of it. 

 

Well then, I guess that means you are not going to be watching episode 2.15. (I don't blame you at all)

 

Episode 2.15 Spellcaster - Extended Synopsis.

 

I don't know man...I just don't know...

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Amethyst

Amethyst

Well then, I guess that means you are not going to be watching episode 2.15. (I don't blame you at all)

 

Episode 2.15 Spellcaster - Extended Synopsis.

 

I don't know man...I just don't know...

 

So we're getting a Hawley-centric episode one week, followed by a Katrina-centric episode...sigh.  At least this gives my DVR a break. 

 

You know that meme of Chrissy Teigen's face at the Golden Globe awards?  That's pretty much how I feel, only without the joy.  The only (potential) good thing about this is

the possibility that Katrina could be evil.  Or her powers are.

 It wouldn't endear the audiences to her any more, but it would make sense.

 

(spoiler marked just in case!)

phoenics

phoenics

Based on an article posted earlier about Katrina's powers by Goffman,

I think that Katrina is going to end up evil or something crazy happens. His words were something like, Katrina taps into her power and that's when things really get out of control. It's in the article where the guy who plays Abraham (neil jackson?) mentions something about KW liking what she's doing - or maybe it was the one where he mentioned she was bored last season? don't remember anymore...

I'm just not interested though - this character will have had at least 3-4 episodes centered around her and that's 3 too many. We may not even make it to the Abbie centric episodes.

DearEvette

DearEvette

During Empire last night they were running Sleepy Hollow promos like it owed them rent.  Interestingly, there were no shots of Katrina during the many ads.  Plenty of Abbie, Jenny, Irving & Ichabod... but no Katrina.  Don't have to be a genius to realize why. But how blatant esp. since Goffman has been doing the Katrina-centric poledance all season.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

During Empire last night they were running Sleepy Hollow promos like it owed them rent.  Interestingly, there were no shots of Katrina during the many ads.  Plenty of Abbie, Jenny, Irving & Ichabod... but no Katrina.  Don't have to be a genius to realize why. But how blatant esp. since Goffman has been doing the Katrina-centric poledance all season.

 

Well, rumour is that if the show gets a season 3, they will pair it with Empire on the schedule. This week, my TV network reran Empire followed by SH. Usually it's Gotham and SH. Monday is a rough day to compete against, so I can see them moving it to Wednesday with Empire.

 

And the fact that the ads contained NO Katrina. God that makes me laugh my butt off. It's like there is this huge black void sitting between FOX and Goffman and co. FOX thinks one way, Goffman and co another. What sucks though is that some of the Empire viewers already know better. Also, the ads are misleading. A new viewer will watch the episode and go 'who is this useless witch?'

 

On the postive note - maybe the season will really surprise us at the end, and there will be something to come back for (assuming the show still exists)

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catrox14

catrox14

(edited)

If they move it to Wednesday IMO it will get slaughtered by CBS and Arrow and Supernatural for the genre fix if it moves to 8 or 9. But it will make my viewing choices easier. SH will be DVR only because I'll be watching Arrow and Supernatural live.

It's better to leave it on Monday following Gotham since Empire is essentially a family /business soap opera like Dallas but in the music world and to me it doesn't pair well.... Oh wait I guess it would if SH continues being the CW instead of the awesome genre show that it was.

Eta: oh autocorrect you suck..it's the CFD not the CW

Edited by catrox14
HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

If they move it to Wednesday IMO it will get slaughtered by CBS and Arrow and Supernatural for the genre fix if it moves to 8 or 9. But it will make my viewing choices easier. SH will be DVR only because I'll be watching Arrow and Supernatural live.

It's better to leave it on Monday following Gotham since Empire is essentially a family /business soap opera like Dallas but in the music world and to me it doesn't pair well.... Oh wait I guess it would if SH continues being the CW instead of the awesome genre show that it was.

 

Yeah, I just don't know where they should move the show, if that is what they are doing. For me, Gotham then Sleepy was a good Monday Night. If there was a Football game, I would DVR both, watch SH live and then watch NFL. Doing that, I could fast forward through commercials (I have no tolerance for commercials).

 

I don't care about things like the Voice or American Idol or whatever reality show(and don't watch those other shows you mentioned), so the rest of the week becomes a free from TV week, so in my head, lots of space to move it. But yeah, there is lots of competition. You are right.

 

And to think - if Goffman and co. didn't screw up the show in the first place by pandering to his muse, we wouldn't even be discussing this, because SH would have had strong ratings on an already packed Monday night and be comfortably matched with Gotham. It makes me despise Goffman and co even more.

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allyw

allyw

Well, rumour is that if the show gets a season 3, they will pair it with Empire on the schedule. This week, my TV network reran Empire followed by SH. Usually it's Gotham and SH. Monday is a rough day to compete against, so I can see them moving it to Wednesday with Empire.

 

I think this is probably wishful thinking as networks don't usually use a high rated show to prop a veteran show which is what Sleepy Hollow would be by then. If Empire continues to have these ratings it's more than likely going to be pair with whichever new show Fox is high on.

DearEvette

DearEvette

So Fox announced renewals for Empire, Gotham, and Brooklyn Nine-Nine.  No word on Sleepy Hollow yet.   I still think it is going to be renewed, but the fact that it was not announced in the first slate leads me to believe that Network is having a talk to the creators first.  I remember...I think it was Wiseman.... who said Fox required them to show them their whole season outline before the first season.  So I am wondering if they had laxed on that the second season and are now requiring that again ahead of S3 before they give the greenlight? 

 

At any rate, it feels like the Network at least is not hand waving S2 away as a mere Sophomore slump.  And another indicator of how far S2 has been from S1.  SH went from being the first show renewed among the 2013 freshmen to having it's fate still in limbo.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Damn...first, FOX renewed three shows - Gotham, Empire and Brooklyn 99. No mention of Sleepy Hollow yet. ETA; DearEvette got here first!

 

Then this....from the Television Critics Association Winter Press Tour: Answers to questions about SH and renewal. You have to scroll down the twitter hashtag to find the references to SH, but in summary:

 

- No offical renewal for SH yet.

- 'changes coming to the show'

- Moving away from more serialized drama

- FOX waiting to see the 'creative direction' before deciding on renewal

- Renewal dependent on those tweaks to the show.

 

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with SH, is there? Not at all. /sarcasm/ The only serialized elements are CFD and Henry/redemption.  My happy prediction. Goffman is out, Katrina and Henry gone. Good riddance.

 

What a fall from grace, though for this show.

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DearEvette

DearEvette

Wow.  We knew they were not happy with the ratings, but...the 'creative choices' thing.  Since the big difference this season vs. last season in 'creative choices' is the fore-fronting of Katrina & CFD, it seems Fox is about as happy as fans with that.

 

Also, I am a little concerned about the idea that they plan to move away from serialized stuff.  The whole Two Witnesses and Apocalypse is very much part of the serialization.  In fact this season felt more episodic with the exception of the Henry crap.  I hope they still mean to follow through with the Witnesses/End of Days otherwise the identity of the show changes.

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cynic

cynic

(edited)

Being reported here too.

http://tvline.com/2015/01/17/bones-season-11-renewal-sleepy-hollow-season-3/

Hope this leads to improvements and less CFD/Henry/Katrina.

ETA: Ugh, this doesn't sound promising. Seems like we're looking at a bunch of MotW and we still have to deal with freaking Katrina.

"Having said that, Walden said there’s no current plans to make any cast changes (cough-Katrina-cough). “We don’t have any creative changes [planned],” she said. “It was more [about] having a show that’s easier to access week to week that you don’t have to feel like if you tune into episode three of our new run, that you have to go back and watch the first two. So some greater procedural stories and maybe toning down a little bit the apocalyptic vision that existed in the initial episodes this season.”"

http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/17/fix-sleepy-hollow/

Edited by cynic
Yolapukka

Yolapukka

 

 

- Moving away from more serialized drama

- FOX waiting to see the 'creative direction' before deciding on renewal

 

 

The first point is only good news if it means they are moving away from the soapy relationship snoozefest of the CFD and worthless Henry's redemption. It's an awful turn if it means there is no central arc to individual seasons or the show as a whole. I never thought I'd read about Fox examining "creative direction" prior to renewal as positive for a show, but for once, I do.

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Being reported here too.

http://tvline.com/2015/01/17/bones-season-11-renewal-sleepy-hollow-season-3/

Hope this leads to improvements and less CFD/Henry/Katrina.

ETA: Ugh, this doesn't sound promising. Seems like we're looking at a bunch of MotW and we still have to deal with freaking Katrina.

"Having said that, Walden said there’s no current plans to make any cast changes (cough-Katrina-cough). “We don’t have any creative changes [planned],” she said. “It was more [about] having a show that’s easier to access week to week that you don’t have to feel like if you tune into episode three of our new run, that you have to go back and watch the first two. So some greater procedural stories and maybe toning down a little bit the apocalyptic vision that existed in the initial episodes this season.”"

http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/17/fix-sleepy-hollow/

 

I read the comment about the cast changes exactly like I hear comments from presidents of companies who tells you the company had a bad year. They say they have to reorganize their business units to maximize profit but will claim no layoffs are coming. Then you walk in one day, and boom - a bunch of people are downsized. They really can't say that anyone will be let go, whether it's writers or actors or whatever in advance. But the fact that EW does a (cough Katrina cough) is telling enough. Then read the comments. Same things are being said there too.

 

The new writers and show runner coming in however, can take the show "in a new direction" and write in the death of Henry and Katrina. Problem solved.

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MissAlmond

MissAlmond

You guys are fast! 

 

All I can say is Wow.  Just Wow.  I guess the rumors were true.  When the new FOX heads stated not only that they wanted to be the #1 Network but also commented on not being onboard the cable model, I knew things had changed for SH.  But I thought it would be after renewing it for Season 3.  Totally didn't expect FOX to address things this fast although, with hindsight, I should have.  Like I said, 1.6 might have been good enough for (apparently the old FOX) but it isn't anywhere near "We're number one!" territory.

 

I wonder what this all means.  Is FOX demanding the writers to show them what they had in store for Season 3 for their approval?  Are they crossing out suggestions they hate with a red pencil or just keeping count of things that spell Not Worthy of Renewal?  Did Mark Goffman ask FOX to "trust him" only for the FOX execs to slap him and hand over pages and pages of bad reviews?  Did Raven Metzner cry all he wanted to do was write Jenny with the red dress on?  Did the other writers finally speak up, point fingers and say "He made me do it!"  I want to know all.  LOL. 

 

Seriously, it's apparent that although Goffman was going "la la la la, I don't hear you", somebody at FOX had an intern keeping track of things.  Since SH deals with the supernatural, they stand a chance of fixing things now, especially if FOX is pro active in getting word out that with Season three,  a change is going to come.  They can also keep their current cast if they so desire, personally I hate for any actor to lose a gig.  SH could simply put Katrina back where she was in Season one.  I personally thought she worked better as the voice of whoops, forgot to tell you the whole story.  Whatever, a  creative writing team should be able to come up with something.  Maybe Irving did have that dream.  After all, I'm still a one woman band on John Noble being the mayor of Crazy Town LOL. 

 

But really, what's far more interesting to me is what's going on behind the scenes with FOX and the current regime of SH over the fate of a possible Season 3.  Because . . . reasons. 

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CinnamonCW

CinnamonCW

From @Abaiers (Aaron Baiers, who is apparently head of Kurtzman/Orci Productions from what another fan told me cause I don't know) on Twitter - a0085a014ce40f1cb803e3aa7a16ee12.jpg

To be fair this was the only one that came in to #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter to respond. He interacts with fans sometimes even very angry ones, and always seemed sincerely concerned and sympathetic to us.

So, who knows.

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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

I think breaking the serialization is necessary as a last resort because this season is a lost cause. They aren't going to regain viewers with the current focus on the Colonial love triangle. They need to wrap that crap up, bid the should-be-dead colonials (i.e. Katrina, Abraham and Henry) adieu, and bring the focus back to the man out of time navigating the modern world with his feisty partner.

Yep, I think this is spot on! "Breaking the serialization" in a show without a large audience right now makes sense. If the audience grows, then a more serialized approach could be pursued, but right now FOX's first priority is to stop the hemorrhage and grow the audience. An established show that has the "trust" of the audience, (which Pete Martell alluded to and, which, I agree, may have been lost forever) can serialize branch out etc, but SH doesn't have that luxury right now.

 

I continue to think a new show runner and new approach could resurrect the show given it's strengths, but we'll have to see.

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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

(edited)

A lot of Twin Peaks was insustainable, especially for that era of TV, where shows like Jake and The Fatman (car chases, lots of guns, but ultimately an episodic reminder of the safety of family and friendship)  were still more of the norm for TV drama. Twin Peaks did implode, but it was miraculous that it even held together as long as it did, or that it had an audience in the first place.

 

 

Had to come back to this given the influence the short-lived Twin Peaks has had. It's influenced me to the point where I'll have to stop at Snoqualmie Falls on my next trip to Seattle and also look of the "varied thrush" in the opening credits. :)  

 

It's undeniable that TPs has influenced television as we now know it---from X-Files to Northern Exposure and beyond. I remember well when Kyle Maclaughlan was on SNL and practically have the whole "Sprockets" sketch with Mike Myers memorized. It's amazing to me that such a short -lived TV show could have changed the TV landscape to such a degree. Honestly, SH (despite its debt to TPs and some similarities--see the sign for TPs and SH in the Intros)  has none of that ground-breaking potential, but I still enjoy it and hope to see a rejuvenated version in season 3. 

Edited by RiddleyWalker
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phoenics

phoenics

From @Abaiers (Aaron Baiers, who is apparently head of Kurtzman/Orci Productions from what another fan told me cause I don't know) on Twitter - a0085a014ce40f1cb803e3aa7a16ee12.jpg

To be fair this was the only one that came in to #AbbieMillsDeservesBetter to respond. He interacts with fans sometimes even very angry ones, and always seemed sincerely concerned and sympathetic to us.

So, who knows.

I'm tempted to respond to him and ask if Orci/Kurtzman plan to come back to save this show and oust Goffman? Because that's the ONLY thing that will save this show.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Had to come back to this given the influence the short-lived Twin Peaks has had. It's influenced me to the point where I'll have to stop at Snoqualmie Falls on my next trip to Seattle and also look of the "varied thrush" in the opening credits. :)

Wait, what?

I've been to Snoqualmie Falls several times, there's a casino there. What does that have to do with Twin Peaks? I watched the shoe but it was so long ago, I only remember the basics and the weird stuff...like the dream midget.

As for SH there's nothing wrong with serial. I'd actually say S1 was mostly serialized. It was a MoW format with the Apocalypse as the looming season/series long arc. You could easily drop in/out of S1 without being confused.

Supernatural follows the same format it's worked for years.

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blixie

blixie

I honestly do not see serialization as the problem (though I think the show could sustain the more X Files/Supernatural style of MoTW with Arc eps sprinkled in), hopefully it's just a smoke screen for Katrina and Goffman are out on their asses, new showrunner and writing staff is in store. 

 

Also great to see Kurzman/Orci's interest still asserting itself somewhere in there, even if they've moved on from Fox, I always got the impression they really loved this project and helping Iscove get it off the ground.

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phoenics

phoenics

I honestly do not see serialization as the problem (though I think the show could sustain the more X Files/Supernatural style of MoTW with Arc eps sprinkled in), hopefully it's just a smoke screen for Katrina and Goffman are out on their asses, new showrunner and writing staff is in store. 

 

Also great to see Kurzman/Orci's interest still asserting itself somewhere in there, even if they've moved on from Fox, I always got the impression they really loved this project and helping Iscove get it off the ground.

For me, the "secret" serialization that worked so well in S1 is the way to go. It was serialization, but it didn't feel like it. Until the big WHAMMY plot twist at the end.

If they really are dropping the whole Apocalypse thing, I will be very sad. They didn't even really DO it.

I couldn't tell based on the article if the writer was interjecting thoughts that they would drop the apocalypse part completely or if that was literally what the Fox folks were actually saying? Can anyone clear that up for me?

All of the buzz around Empire does have me thinking though - and I do wonder if they plan on pairing it up with Empire because they now recognize the power of diversity? That's what I thought when I saw that. The only issue is, with the show being so crappy right now, Empire fans will see right through it.

I watched Empire's premiere - I don't remember seeing that many SH promos - but I wasn't paying much attention during commercials, so...

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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

(edited)

Wait, what?

I've been to Snoqualmie Falls several times, there's a casino there. What does that have to do with Twin Peaks? I watched the shoe but it was so long ago, I only remember the basics and the weird stuff...like the dream midge

 

Lucky you! 

 

Snoqualmie falls is featured in the opening credits sequence on TPs and The Great Northern Hotel, where agent Cooper stays, is owned by Ben Horne and where his daughter Audrey is often about (frequently enticing Agent Cooper) and is just above the falls . The Northern Hotel scenes were filmed at what is now the Salish Lodge and Spa in the pilot but later reproduced as a set in Hollywoood.

Edited by RiddleyWalker
Pete Martell

Pete Martell

I have a sinking feeling that Sleepy Hollow is on track to suffer its own version of the Great Firefly Debacle of 2002 (or the Dollhouse Disaster of 2009), and that's incredibly unfortunate.

 

 

Other than being genre shows that (at least with the other two) ended early, I'm not sure what the comparison is. Sleepy Hollow isn't a Whedon-type show (he'd never cast an actress like Nicole Beharie in a major role - he has 2 or 3 "types" and will stick to those to the end of time) and the show wasn't in the same position those shows were in - it was actually doing well until this season (or late last season). 

 

Episode orders and lack of serialization are not the show's major problems, in my opinion.

 

Sometimes I read these articles and think the show has 30 episodes a season, like Knots Landing used to have. 18 episodes isn't that huge for a show that is on good ground creatively. I just don't believe they'd be any better with only 12 episodes. It would likely just mean even more of I, Ichatrina, and less of everything else.

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Yolapukka

Yolapukka

(edited)

I don't feel that the episode count or the stand-alone episodes were the problem. Many of the best episodes this season were stand-alones  and often did more in terms of character building than those tied to the main plot. "Deliverance" was a main plot episode and was a low point whereas I quite liked the episodes featuring a wendigo, a pied piper and a weeping lady.  Fox has a point when it comes to their concerns with the continuing story this season because it has been boring, repetitive, faux-romantic tripe. I was horribly impatient watching the MOTW episodes because I wanted the show to tell the main story, but the main plot had been made secondary to CFD, whinging Abraham, whinging Henry and the wigstand peeping around doorways, following whims, getting into damsel danger and generally screwing up. She will soon be entering Jar Jar Binks territory for me. "Mama" existed in some sort of weird middle ground, it was mainly about a MOTW, but dealt with dangling threads from the first season and positioned Irving to be free for the mid-season finale. It was also an episode that you could watch and be drawn into without needing to be familiar with all that had passed before in the Sleepy Hollow universe. I think when Dana Walden refers to the show becoming overly serialized, she's referring to the soapiness, not the idea there is a larger story being told. As well as being dull, the CFD is also rather incoherent and it's hard to keep track of who they are to each other in any given episode if you've missed a prior one. One of the problems with the CFD involves having to pay close attention to something which is not very interesting.

Edited by yuggapukka
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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

Dana Walden did point out the chemistry between NB and TM in that interview. Hopefully this means the focus will return back to the witnesses, their relationship and away from Katrina/CFD.

I'm also going to believe the reference of getting way from serialization is changing this show from a melodrama back to Sci-fi/fantasy. I watch Empire for melodrama. I watch show like SH for Sci-fi / fantasy.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)
wow, that article seems so far off the mark I don't even know what to say. FOX is to blame for killing SH by giving it more episodes?

FOX is killing SH by reacting to the drop in ratings by trying to get SH back to what worked in S1? After half of the season has already aired and failed both ratings and critic wise but it's FOXs fault for wanting S3 to NOT be a S2 redux or worse?

S1 was great but we don't need SH to be another serialized show because that sucks!!! I'm sorry but what show were you watching in S1? S1 was serialized, every episode was a MoW, some connected directly to the main apocalypse and others were just loosely part of the series long arc. They even said it in one of the early episodes that along with stopping Moloch and the 4 Horseman the Witnesses would face all kinds of monsters/demons/evils over the next "7 years".

Edited by Morrigan2575
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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Hey Everyone...This thread is starting to get off track and moving into discussion on how to fix the show. It's hitting a fine line, only because some of the posts are a combination of discussion on the TCA media announcements, then going into how to resolve things, which really belongs in the Therapy thread. I'm guilty of this also, actually *grin* There is just too much good drama going on!!!

 

I'm going to move some posts into the Therapy thread, to keep the threads on topic. Any other press announcements or media articles on the show, by all means, please post in here. If you don't find your post here - it's been moved to Therapy!! Happy discussion!

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RiddleyWalker

RiddleyWalker

YES! Speculating about the behind the scenes maneuverings is 100x more interesting than anything we've seen on SH this season.

I'd totally watch a documentary about this! This is absolutely fascinating to me. The inner workings, decision making, the honest thoughts of actors, show runner, writers,  Fox execs etc would be "must see TV" for me.

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DeLurker

DeLurker

I'd totally watch a documentary about this! This is absolutely fascinating to me. The inner workings, decision making, the honest thoughts of actors, show runner, writers,  Fox execs etc would be "must see TV" for me.

They'd call it a drama or comedy or dramady, but it would be a documentary. We need some underling wired up with Google Glass and a hidden mike! They could make it pay-per-view.

Indi

Indi

Sorry, I can't hear the dialog well (and that may be for the best), but did Ichy actually acknowledge he's aware his beloved wife has messed up the team and the mission, but he doesn't really care? He is taking yet another break to hook up with his beloved wife, leaving Abbie to fend on her own again? And the cherry on top is Abbie propping him up and giving him advice on how to court the women he's married to?

HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

Does anyone wonder what the hell these two talked about when they were married?? Seriously. So Ichabod needs pointers to court his bloody wife?? Also, she didn't know he was banging Betsy Ross. Again, seriously?? Did they ever interact at all? I mean, there is the whole "all they did was have sex" but that doesn't even seem to be the case. This is the oddest relationship ever, I tell you. It's supposed to be the perfect romance, but hell, even trashy romance novels do it much much better.

 

And I am going to predict that him not telling her about Ross, will exonerate HER on all of her lies. Those many many lies...

 

Oh, and don't forget the required ship tease, of Ichabod saying to Abbie about "OUR" time. I'm gonna need a lot of wine.

Yolapukka

Yolapukka

(edited)

 

Ichabod needs pointers to court his bloody wife?? Also, she didn't know he was banging Betsy Ross. Again, seriously?? Did they ever interact at all? I

 

Whatever else they do to fix the Katrina problem has to include the casting of a love charm on Ichabod. This damned couple makes no fucking sense whatsoever. Seriously, if you are going to inject soapy relationship crap into a show, at least make the relationships credible. These people don't even know each other, how can that be an epic love story that transcends time, dimension and underwear trends?

Edited by yuggapukka
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