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maraleia

By maraleia
in Sleepy Hollow [V]

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jenrising
jenrising
cynic
cynic

Oh, I have no doubt that Beharie wanted to leave. My issue is the laying of blame at Beharie for wanting to leave without considering why she wanted to leave. It was pretty clear two and a half years

Badsamaritan
Badsamaritan

I don't believe a word from FOX. Look how they treated Orlando Jones, by far their biggest cheerleader. And the fact that he has still been supporting Nicole tells me he knows what the fuck really hap

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fantique

fantique

(edited)

Why wouldn't she? She clearly is encouraged to be flirty with him in her scenes and the casting call asked for a Mrs Smith to his Mr Smith. I would be surprised if she didn't think it's a possibility.

 

From the interview:

although of course there are some elements that are very true to whatever historical facts we have about Betsy Ross.

How precise sounding... What are said facts and when will I see them? *facpalm* Edited by fantique
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BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

Ugh. "a possible romance between the two [betsy and Ichabod,]". She should have been told right from the start "Not Gonna Happen." It's very disturbing that she even sees that as a possibility..

She clearly delusional. Mason looks like he's perpetually confused as to why he even has scenes with SBR. Lol. Man, I love that dude!

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Yolapukka

Yolapukka

(edited)

Meh, she's not going to shoot down a potential romance, even if she knows better, because that possibility is what is currently being teased onscreen. However, It does look awfully one-sided. *ahem*. 

Edited by yuggapukka
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fantique

fantique

(edited)

What!?!? Did I blank that out of my brain? I don't even remember reading that. Wow, that is an overstatement if I ever heard one. Even if she was Tatiana Maslany-ing our minds away (in terms of how the actress crafts her characters), I don't see how the character presented to us is "the ultimate woman". SBR is the saddest attempt at convincing the viewers she is a strong female character since Laurel Lance/Buckles Canary (Arrow reference) and the unfortunate "Wow...you're so strong" lip service by a random boy she saves. Maybe that's because this is the richest/most layered role she's ever gotten to play? This sentence makes me sad. She is a carbon cutout of what 13 yr old fantasy nerds get off to and think is a real woman as opposed to a fantasy. I actually feel sad for NR. She seems so nice too... I just hope she's not at NYCC.

Edited by fantique
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slayer2

slayer2

She clearly delusional. Mason looks like he's perpetually confused as to why he even has scenes with SBR. Lol. Man, I love that dude!

 

She's not delusional, the writers have already hinted at a romance between BR and IC, so no, nothing delusional there.

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BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

(edited)

She's not delusional, the writers have already hinted at a romance between BR and IC, so no, nothing delusional there.

They've hinted or lied about quite a few things that didn't pan out over the last couple of seasons.

Edited by BigEasygirl
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phoenics

phoenics

Gavin Hetherington at SpoilerTV likes Betsy Ross. Of course he does. :/

 

S3E2 review

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/10/sleepy-hollow-whispers-in-dark-review.html

S3E1 review

http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/09/sleepy-hollow-i-witness-season-premiere.html

Gavin is just so... special. Bless his heart.

NR isn't delusional to suggest romance - since the PR has done that so much already. But it would be such a detriment to this show. Plus I still can't figure out her "sexy" angle - she just comes off as awkward and weird. I also can't tell if Ichabod is just confused by her or ready to go hide in the broom closet. It doesn't scream romance to me at all - unless they are going to have Ichy do a 180. He certainly doesn't look at her the way he looks at Abbie - which makes it really, really hard to get into that. Plus, Betsy just seems like she's only there to exposit the latest MoW and honestly there are more interesting ways to do that.

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jhlipton

jhlipton

Betsy just seems like she's only there to exposit the latest MoW and honestly there are more interesting ways to do that.

 

Easily the worst part of the episode. Her stopping Howe was ghastly -- he could find another groupie at the drop of a tri-corner; no way he would postpone business for that THOT.

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Free

Free

They've hinted or lied about quite a few things that didn't pan out over the last couple of seasons.

 

I think that also had to do with the numerous changes and rewrites, especially last season, you could literally see storylines being wrapped up too neatly when they clearly wanted to do more with them.

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slayer2

slayer2

They've hinted or lied about quite a few things that didn't pan out over the last couple of seasons.

Doesn't make her delusional, might make us delusional but they're her bosses, pretty sure they speak regularly and whatever she is regurgitating came from them.

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BigEasygirl

BigEasygirl

(edited)

Doesn't make her delusional, might make us delusional but they're her bosses, pretty sure they speak regularly and whatever she is regurgitating came from them.

Maybe. But she could be putting what she wants to happen out there in the hopes that it will in the hope that it might lead to an increase her role on the show and make SBR more relevant.

In any case, I used the word delusional ( which has been latched onto without seeming to take in the rest of the tone of my post) in a playful manner. Mostly pointing to the lack of chemistry between NR and TM as well as their acting styles not meshing too well. No, that didn't stop them last season with KW, but it seems unlikely that they'd go that route again.

Self-promotion by actors happen all the time. No biggie. And that's what NR seems to be doing.

Edited by BigEasygirl
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Miss Dee

Miss Dee

(edited)

While I like that AV Club does serious reviews and not snarky ones, I personally feel they can be a bit "too cool for school" in their attitudes towards most shows. Just about every other review I read was positive, even if there were reservations about various aspects.

Edited by Miss Dee
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DearEvette

DearEvette

I think like most things, it depends on the individual recapper.  I remember the TWOP recapper for SH did not like Abbie and seemed to nitpick all sorts of things about her, some of which were just factually wrong.

 

The commenters on that site gave the ep a better grade than the recapper did and seemed a lot more even in their assessment.  I do like that the comments seem to be more analytical and less passionate sometimes tho.

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Criminey

Criminey

Hilarious recap by TV Recappers Delight. 43 Thoughts on Sleepy Hollow's Whispers in the Dark. A fun read!

Thanks HalcyonDays. I hadn't read this recapper before.

I had forgotten Ichabods comment about how aggressive Betsy was. I know he said he hid in a closet to avoid her; but I figured he just wasn't interested and took an easy but cowardly way out of an entanglement. In rethinking their scenes together, (I think about this show entirely too much!), the lack of chemistry can be explained by his playing out his annoyance and disliking her aggressive in you face play for him. Which kind of puts NR's interpretation in a different light. She's doing a darn fine job of playing an annoying would-be lover. I still don't care for it; but well done if that's what they're going for. (Just my opinion trying to put a positive spin on Reeds performance.)

I love this show. I'm not sure what could make me stop watching it, other than losing the 3 stars.

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vanarnd1

vanarnd1

Fun with comments:

 

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/653321698205376512/photo/1

 

Probably not the reaction they were expecting...

Even though this is a small thing, it does worry me a little how oblivious they seem to be fan reaction of Betsy Ross. Between this and the Nikki Reed interview it seems like they are teasing a continued focus on Betsy and Ichabod together which is the exact opposite of what the show needs. If the show were on more solid ground than maybe it wouldn't matter as much, but fan excitement and good will is really important right now so doubling down on what  is not going over well with the audience just seems like stubborn thinking from TPTB.

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jhlipton

jhlipton

She's doing a darn fine job of playing an annoying would-be lover. I still don't care for it; but well done if that's what they're going for. (Just my opinion trying to put a positive spin on Reeds performance.)

.

 

She's still doing a crap job as super-spy, though.

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phoenics

phoenics

Even though this is a small thing, it does worry me a little how oblivious they seem to be fan reaction of Betsy Ross. Between this and the Nikki Reed interview it seems like they are teasing a continued focus on Betsy and Ichabod together which is the exact opposite of what the show needs. If the show were on more solid ground than maybe it wouldn't matter as much, but fan excitement and good will is really important right now so doubling down on what  is not going over well with the audience just seems like stubborn thinking from TPTB.

I keep thinking that they CANNOT be this tone deaf. They just cannot be. So something else must be going on.

Cliffy said in one interview that they'd gone as far as they could go with Betsy - so I think she's actually not going to factor in in a huge way - at least in terms of how she's written on the show. You know he's looking at this and seeing exactly what we're seeing - he's not dumb. And so far, SBR scenes have fallen flat and actually felt more like Ichabod doesn't reciprocate - whereas the Ichabbie scenes have been overtly shippy - that's never really happened before, has it?

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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

Did they mention at NYCC2015 the possibility of bringing Betsy Ross into the 21st century? Did these fools learn nothing by bringing Katrina into current times. It's like a definite lets gain some good faith back with our fans and then burn it ALL down again. There will be NO coming back if these fools do the same thing again. Has no one explained the definition of "crazy" to them i.e. doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. I wish the cast gainful and quick employment if they are indeed this stupid. How and why would they tank the show again over a no talented, bland ass woman. UGH RAGE if it happens!

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Happytobehere

Happytobehere

Okay, that scene with Ichabod and Daniels was totally about Crane taking ownership of Abbie. Now whether this ownership is romantic or friendship is up to the beholder.

I think the googly eyes over Ichabod two weeks in a row is hinting at something and not just an ode to Mison's physical appearance.

I liked having Joe Corbin back and interacting with Jenny. They work well together. Question -- Didn't Joe leave with a recommendation from Abbie to get into Qunatico? What happened there?

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jhlipton

jhlipton

Okay, that scene with Ichabod and Daniels was totally about Crane taking ownership of Abbie. Now whether this ownership is romantic or friendship is up to the beholder.

 

Considering how many of Crane's friends were slave-holders, "ownership" has an more repulsive connotation than the usual "man owns the woman" crap.  I would forever hate Crane if I had seen that.

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cynic

cynic

(edited)

Did they mention at NYCC2015 the possibility of bringing Betsy Ross into the 21st century? ...

There was no mention of Betsy coming into the present. They really didn't give many specifics about her or tease her storyline at all. NR basically just repeated what she has been saying about her not being the Betsy you would expect and how she's the "ultimate woman". She didn't even really allude to a romance with Crane, only saying that she liked to make him uncomfortable.

Metzner did give a spoiler, but wouldn't say who it was about. He said that

someone in our extended crew is going to switch sides

. Odds are it's her, but who knows.

Edited by cynic
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Ann Mack

Ann Mack

There was no mention of Betsy coming into the present. They really didn't give many specifics about her or tease her storyline at all. NR basically just repeated what she has been saying about her not being the Betsy you would expect and how she's the "ultimate woman". She didn't even really allude to a romance with Crane, only saying that she liked to make him uncomfortable.

Metzner did give a spoiler, but wouldn't say who it was about. He said that

someone in our extended crew is going to switch sides

. Odds are it's her, but who knows.

Thank you. 2 episodes in and I'm already very much OVER Betsy Ross.

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WearyTraveler

WearyTraveler

Fun with comments:

 

https://twitter.com/SleepyHollowFOX/status/653321698205376512/photo/1

 

Probably not the reaction they were expecting...

 

So far, my favorite response to that request for caption is

 

Melissa ‏@melsano  · 20h20 hours ago @SleepyHollowFOX "Shall I shiv this one now or wait a fortnight?"

 

LMAO!

 

That NR interview reminds me of the time Sheila Kelley got the role of Zoe on Lost.  It was as a recurring character in the last season, and the actress basically said in an interview that her character was important and that maybe she had the key to solve the mysteries of the island, or something along those lines.  The fan explosion on the internet was major.  Many people found it outrageous that this new character who we hadn't seen or heard about in 5 seasons would suddenly reveal everything, instead of that going to the regular characters we had been following from the beginning.

 

The fan break-down was so big that she had to make statements basically retracting all of that, saying that, as an actress, she constructs that sort of story in her head, so she can build her character, but that no producer, or writer had told her that was what her character would do.  On screen, she was mysterious, she had an agenda and she knew some secrets (nothing really major), which was par for the course on any new character introduced on Lost.

 

So, anyway.  Actors get some direction and some statements as to their characters stories and motivations, some more than others, that depends on the show (Lost as characteristically mysterious and cagey with its own actors sometimes because they didn't want any big secrets spoiled).  With that, actors build their characters and perhaps play them in a way that reflects where they think their character is going, I'd guess some wishful thinking goes into that as well, consciously or subconsciously.  I'd imagine it'd be hard for any actor to not try to play their character as someone immensely important to the story of which they are a part.

 

As for the overall purpose of Betsy Ross, I think she's there for the same reason Daniel is there.  Not to become Ichabod's next true love, but to be a catalyst for Ichabbie actually getting together (and I say this as a non-shipper of any couple on any show, ever).  I believe Cliffton when he said that Ichabod and Abbie will be a slow burn, and that makes sense given the story so far (I wouldn't buy it if they suddenly got feelings for each other in three episodes).

 

Daniel showed up and Ichabod was jealous.  Betsy will probably show up in the future time and make Abbie jealous, even though Crane doesn't appear to have any feelings for her, but they have a history.  Both, Betsy and Daniel, will motivate Ichabod and Abbie to examine their feelings for each other and discover that they actually are interested in more than a friendship/partnership.

 

That's my theory given everything we have read in the media about this season and the new characters so far.  I reserve the right to be wrong, off course. :D

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Julia

Julia

(edited)

I hate to sound like that person who stansplains whatever the contrarian viewpoint is, but as awful as whisper-voiced tween badass super-Betsy is, that character is super popular with (male) producers right now. I can think of three recent shows off the top of my head which have / had a version of that character as the creator's pet.

 

I guess I'm saying, I'm not a huge fan of the actress, but I feel like All The Things that are wrong with SBR were in the producers' creative brief for the character over the summer. I don't know if she has a choice.

Edited by Julia
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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

blackhoney - were there any cast photos of Betsy, or were those just left off? Just trying to figure out if you left them off or if the show did.

I don't know. All I know is they weren't in the set that I got. I was on Tumblr a few days ago and came across another webiste that had the same pics and Betsy was missing from those too. Again, don't know why.

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Blackhoney

Blackhoney

So far, my favorite response to that request for caption is

 

Melissa ‏@melsano  · 20h20 hours ago @SleepyHollowFOX "Shall I shiv this one now or wait a fortnight?"

 

LMAO!

 

That NR interview reminds me of the time Sheila Kelley got the role of Zoe on Lost.  It was as a recurring character in the last season, and the actress basically said in an interview that her character was important and that maybe she had the key to solve the mysteries of the island, or something along those lines.  The fan explosion on the internet was major.  Many people found it outrageous that this new character who we hadn't seen or heard about in 5 seasons would suddenly reveal everything, instead of that going to the regular characters we had been following from the beginning.

 

The fan break-down was so big that she had to make statements basically retracting all of that, saying that, as an actress, she constructs that sort of story in her head, so she can build her character, but that no producer, or writer had told her that was what her character would do.  On screen, she was mysterious, she had an agenda and she knew some secrets (nothing really major), which was par for the course on any new character introduced on Lost.

 

So, anyway.  Actors get some direction and some statements as to their characters stories and motivations, some more than others, that depends on the show (Lost as characteristically mysterious and cagey with its own actors sometimes because they didn't want any big secrets spoiled).  With that, actors build their characters and perhaps play them in a way that reflects where they think their character is going, I'd guess some wishful thinking goes into that as well, consciously or subconsciously.  I'd imagine it'd be hard for any actor to not try to play their character as someone immensely important to the story of which they are a part.

 

As for the overall purpose of Betsy Ross, I think she's there for the same reason Daniel is there.  Not to become Ichabod's next true love, but to be a catalyst for Ichabbie actually getting together (and I say this as a non-shipper of any couple on any show, ever).  I believe Cliffton when he said that Ichabod and Abbie will be a slow burn, and that makes sense given the story so far (I wouldn't buy it if they suddenly got feelings for each other in three episodes).

 

Daniel showed up and Ichabod was jealous.  Betsy will probably show up in the future time and make Abbie jealous, even though Crane doesn't appear to have any feelings for her, but they have a history.  Both, Betsy and Daniel, will motivate Ichabod and Abbie to examine their feelings for each other and discover that they actually are interested in more than a friendship/partnership.

 

That's my theory given everything we have read in the media about this season and the new characters so far.  I reserve the right to be wrong, off course. :D

I swore I wouldn't do this, this season, but here I am. I had such hope when Heather Kadin, the show's ONLY female producers said this season they would only bring in characters to help Ichabod and Abbie. She made a point of saying it was important to THINK before surrounding the Witnesses with just any old character. But here we are, right back in season two with all the wrong supporting characters being brought in.

 

Betsy Ross isn't just a poorly acted and poorly written character, she is a direct THREAT to the second Witness because like Katrina in season two, she nullifies Abbie.

 

It amazes me how many people haven't NOTICED that Crane and Betsy are solving the demon of the week cases back in colonial times. It is there partnership that sets everything off. In both S3 episodes we get a flashback that leads to Crane hooking up with Betsy and SHE providing the pivotal clue- the message she left behind in 'I, Witness” and calling Marcus Collins by name in “Whispers in the Dark.”

 

In each episode, Abbie, the second Witness, contributed nothing except the final shot that killed the Yugwai (or whatever it's name was) which ANYONE could have done. Abbie wasn't needed. Crane and Betsy are solving Abbie's cases 2 centuries in the past. LOL

 

Betsy and Daniel aren't needed to provide slow burn or anything else. Just another waste of time that could've been filled with quality characters, like a High Council to assist the Witnesses.

 

Uggg. I can't. I won't do this another season.

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blixie

blixie

 

In each episode, Abbie, the second Witness, contributed nothing except the final shot that killed the Yugwai (or whatever it's name was) which ANYONE could have done.

 

I agree that both episodes have relied too much on linking a present day monster to Ichabod's past/SBR, but I don't agree with your characterization of how they  "solved" the Yugwai, it was Abbie's observation that she was able to wound it when it's eyes were white that lead them all to recall in the present about the famous saying not to shoot until they saw the whites of their eyes. It was Abbie who identified it's fatal weakness and Abbie who destroyed it. SBR had jack all shit to do with that, and Ichabod only marginally less. Then she and she alone killed it's ass.

 

Having said that I 130% hate SBR, and do think overall the frame of FB/SBR is there to undermine Abbie. I just think she fully contributed in the premiere. 

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fantique

fantique

(edited)

This tweet about the caption is the most beautiful thing ever.

 

 

"Who taught you how to go incognito - Lady Gaga??"

I just about died.

 

Considering how many of Crane's friends were slave-holders, "ownership" has an more repulsive connotation than the usual "man owns the woman" crap.  I would forever hate Crane if I had seen that.

Well...I think "man owns the woman" crap is repulsive enough. LBR, this show doesn't do serious implications. SBR would have been at least groped and harassed going around like that and if it was cable, she would have narrowly escaped being raped. 

 

 

Having said that I 130% hate SBR, and do think overall the frame of FB/SBR is there to undermine Abbie. I just think she fully contributed in the premiere. 

Hmm...So far it's been too short and mcguffin-focused to feel like a threat. She's a plot device of the most apparent order. I mean, it makes Bonnie on TVD look like she was the star of the show.

 

Okay, they explained why BR was without a dress. Makes sense TBH.

 

Best part of the panel, IMO, is the email from Mison that Zach Appleman read out. That was hilarious.

That was a valid reason off screen reason but narrative wise, they should have just had her either change in her "I totally can pass of as a man" get up or just made it so she did take care of him like that. I don't see what's wrong with a woman using her assets in war if she does it of her own volition and it can even add depth to this kiddie pool of a character. Or they should have shown her tying and gagging him. That would have been hilarious. If they are going down the comedy road with her, it needs to look more deliberate. They should have edited her speech out and just shown her fan on his chest and then cut to him being gagged. I would have loved that.

 

From the video: Can Tom write the show? Pretty please? Television Gods, I am praying very hard. Also, I find Zach very adorable for some reason. I just want to give him a hug.

Edited by fantique
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jhlipton

jhlipton

Someone live tweeted the NYCC panel. Here are the tweets.

 

Okay, they explained why BR was without a dress. Makes sense TBH.

 

Ugh no.

 

on a practical level it's so Betsy can get in the moving carriage; her skirts would have made that impossible.

 

As mentioned, it would have made more sense to have her change into her "super-spy" outfit.

 

she led him down a path & left him tied & gagged.

 

So the most brilliant general in the British Army was led astray during a crucial period and overwhelmed by super-spy Betsy.   Eyes roll..  Abbie maybe, but not Busty!

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Julia

Julia

So the most brilliant general in the British Army was led astray during a crucial period and overwhelmed by super-spy Betsy. Eyes roll..  Abbie maybe, but not Busty!

 

Did they explain how she kept him from having her hunted down and hung afterwards? 

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HalcyonDays

HalcyonDays

As mentioned, it would have made more sense to have her change into her "super-spy" outfit.

 

That "Super Spy" outfit of hers - it screams modern to me. Is it supposed to be her 1700s spy outfit? Everytime I see it, I think modern times, hence probably the belief that she's gonna appear in the modern times.

 

I think I would have rathered her try to seduce Howe, and knock him out in a bedroom and escape. The big bulky dress reason does make sense - like stated above, I wish they would have had a quick line of dialogue that stated that.

 

Interesting casting news - I remember this mentioned early on -

the season will be split between two villians - Pandora then this guy. If that's the case, I can see Pandora switching sides, the joining Crane/Abbie in fighting the new big bad.

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phoenics

phoenics

Holy Moly - the sleepyhollowfox instagram is getting LIT UP by angry fans after they (stupidly) posted this: https://instagram.com/p/8wTom1FodB/?taken-by=sleepyhollowfox

I know they mean "soulmate" by their post, but it is still REALLY offensive to Nicole Beharie. Why? Why use "leading lady" in your question to mean "soulmate?" Don't use that and then pit Abbie against two other women. Both of whom are DEAD. No. NO!

Whoever created that instagram post is such an idiot.

Besides that - they BETTER follow it up with "Who should be Abbie's leading man?" if they don't delete that trash.

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BestestAuntEver

BestestAuntEver

Deep sigh, I've come to the conclusion that TPTB for this show are tone deaf idiots. It's a safety mechanism. It's the only way for me not to lose my shit everytime they post, tweet, instagram or have interview that is tone deaf. IMO, they are constantly out of step with a large contingent of the audience.

This show could be used as an example of what not to do with a show and how PR can work against you.

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