S32: Michele Fitzgerald

[ProfCrash]

I have no problem with Michele winning. She had a good social game and was willing to work with anyone and everyone. Given that I had complained about the idiots in the first Brains/Beauty/Brawn who would only work with the people that they allied with (Dan/Mike) and refused to work with others until they were totally desperate (Mike), I have little room to complain when someone works to keep her options open by talking with everyone. Michele intentionally worked on rebuilding bridges after she had not been included in the Scot vote out and after Tai voted for her. She understood the social game well enough to know that Tai's rant about her being at the bottom of their alliance was BS and that she was safe at that Tribal.

One of these years the Producers will learn how to highlight the social game better. It shouldn't be that hard to show someone building bridges with people. They do a fine job showing the people who try to play the middle and fail miserably, you know Tai as a flip flopper, Julia as a double agent, but they can't show how it is that Michele managed to get along with everyone.

And Michelle did win a good number of challenges. Yes, some of those wins came at the end when more physical competitors were taken out but who cares. She won when she needed to and used those wins to her advantage. That is what you are suppose to do.

[SlackerInc]

On 3/25/2016 at 5:30 PM, SlackerInc said:

I am mystified.  I thought Michele was the standout of this latest episode, but she got very little mention in the episode thread and none here.  Just me I guess!

 

On 3/25/2016 at 5:44 PM, LanceM said:

Nope it is not just you. Last episode solidified her as my winner pick this season. The fact they devoted so much time to her on a tribe that never went to tribal council was quite telling.  They are definitely setting her up for the end game and I expect this to continue next episode.

 

On 3/25/2016 at 6:53 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I agree. After the first episode I thought the winner would be either Julia or Michele and after the latest ep Michele has become my #1 pick.

 

I like her a lot. I'm trying to forget the pic of her hanging out with Scot/Jason.

 

On 5/2/2016 at 1:31 PM, SlackerInc said:

Really surprised Michele continues to get so little attention after the very strong episode she had this past week.  For my money, she is one of the best Survivor players of all time. In addition to the usual winning characteristics, she is careful not to let Jeff's TC questions lead or provoke her into saying something impolitic. I consider this an overlooked and very important Survivor skill. It's not a skill, of course, that CBS is going to play up, because they don't want to encourage it. 

 

I have been hesitant to go to the finale thread, because what I've seen so far elsewhere online is a lot of negativity about Michele, and "Aubry wuz robbed"!  I think the best player this season came in first, and the second-best second (and to Michele's credit, she tried to get rid of her toughest competition, but Tai wouldn't go for it).  So I am glad to see in this thread the thoughtful, well-considered posts from several people over the last week or two.  And then I quoted the above posts because I think LanceM, peachmangosteen, and I deserve particular credit for seeing Michele's subtle but powerful game months ago, when it was mostly being ignored by everyone else.

So happy my favorite player powered through for the win!

Edited May 20, 2016 by SlackerInc
Cleaned up quotes for relevance

[NutMeg]

Quote

One of these years the Producers will learn how to highlight the social game better. 

Not sure they will, because it's not flashy enough for what they think the viewers want. And seeing as the viewers rewarded people such as James or Rupert before, I kind of see their point. Then again, maybe the Jameses, Ruperts, Russels, were rewarded because they were front and center in the editing of their seasons. And maybe, maybe, the public is not that shallow, and could get behind someone "normal" playing a good game. Show, you must show us more than you did there : some hardcore fans saw a Michele win edit right from the bat - me, long time fan, never saw it coming, to the point that I was suspecting that some who were active on the spoilers thread were just spilling as prediction what they had read as spoiler. Me, never saw her win coming, but understand it nonetheless.

As said above, Michele's game is eerily similar to Danni's - but at least we got enough of a story to explain why Danni won and why Stephenie lost. This time, we got neither. 

[cherrypj]

2 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

One of these years the Producers will learn how to highlight the social game better. It shouldn't be that hard to show someone building bridges with people. They do a fine job showing the people who try to play the middle and fail miserably, you know Tai as a flip flopper, Julia as a double agent, but they can't show how it is that Michele managed to get along with everyone.

The trouble is that building relationships take a long time. It's not something you can show easily. Maybe during the extra footage?

(I think you also mean, @ProfCrash, Worlds Apart. The first B/B/B was Tony and Cass and Woo.)

[Special K]

4 minutes ago, cherrypj said:

The trouble is that building relationships take a long time. It's not something you can show easily. Maybe during the extra footage?

(I think you also mean, @ProfCrash, Worlds Apart. The first B/B/B was Tony and Cass and Woo.)

That's true, but I still knew that JT was loved and had built bonds, and the Fabio was someone everyone wanted around and was fond of.  They managed to communicate that those guys had endeared themselves to the others.  You might say Fabio was an "undeserving" winner, but I was actually rooting for him because he played the charisma/nice-guy strategy to the hilt (and, yes, won challenges when he needed to).  We just didn't see Michele do that or hear others talking about it, how great she was, how drawn to her, etc..   Tai said basically the opposite.

I agree with whoever said this was the ultimate #blindside on the audience.  Part of me thinks they just couldn't bother telling a cohesive Michele story.

[azshadowwalker]

Well, Tai didn’t have "chemistry" or feel the "energy" of most people out there. Considering how he shut himself off from everyone except three people, I don't know that I put much into Tai's assessment of social interaction. He was the one who chose to shut most people off, by his own admission. 

[peachmangosteen]

21 hours ago, Special K said:

That's true, but I still knew that JT was loved and had built bonds, and the Fabio was someone everyone wanted around and was fond of.  They managed to communicate that those guys had endeared themselves to the others.

Well, they're men. I think that's quite telling.

Danni is probably the best job editing has ever done with this type of female player, but I think that's only because Stephanie was so horrible that it was super easy to show how she lost and so that is more why it was easier for them to show how Danni won. Same thing with Natalie White.

But there is actually a pretty good number of online fans who could see that Michele was the winner. And from very early on. I personally suspected it as early as the premiere actually. So I don't think Michele's edit was quite as bad as it's being made out to be by the "Aubry was robbed!' group.

Edited May 21, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

I don't remember anyone being happy about Fabio's win. If they were it was because his competition was pretty awful. JT was given a positive social edit but he also strategize do a lot with Stephen. Even Stephen said that JT and he were a team and it wasn't Stephen calling the shots. While JT's social game was good, he brought other things to the table. Some people were upset that Stephen didn't win but I don't remember there being massive outrage at JT's winning.

I don't think they failed to show Michele as not being someone people liked being around. She didn't get into fights. She had alliances and friends ships with Aubrey, Julia and Cydney. She found a way to get along with Tai even when he said he didn't feel connected to her. She struck me as someone who was pretty approachable and who was well liked. 

I don't think she was like Parvati. I think she got along with folks and was willing to flirt if it helped her but I think Parvati planned on flirting all the way to the end. 

Michele played a chill social game and managed to work her way out of trouble. She didn't get upset when she was left out of a vote. SHe approached the situation calmly. I thought she did a good job at the Tribal where Tai was targeting her. She called him out for saying she was not a part of the alliance. She asserted that she had been in the alliance longer then he had. She was clear that she felt safe and she was. Tai put another target on his back, wasted his advantage, and made himself look like an idiot in front of the jury.

They should have showed more Aubrey's paranoia and people commenting on it. They should have shown more of Michele's friendship with Cydney. But we did see Aubrey burn her bridge with Debbie. We knew Michelle was best friends with Julia. We knew the douche brothers would not vote for Tai or Aubrey based on their being pissed off at losing. 

[SlackerInc]

At the risk of implying that some viewers were obtuse, I'm with peachmangosteen.  All this talk of "either Michele didn't do anything, or the editors failed to show it" just doesn't wash with me.  I have a post upthread from way back in March, go look: it says, basically, "why is no one here or in the episode thread talking about Michele?  She's awesome!".  Then a couple other people chimed in with some agreement.

So it's clear that the vast majority of people missed it, but I would submit that it was there, and the above posts are proof that some of us could see it.  Or do you think we just imagined something that wasn't there, and then happened to have been wrongly touting the player who lucked into the invisible win?

[azshadowwalker]

I wouldn't say anyone's obtuse, either. What I will say is that production has long implied that there are "best" ways to play the game. One is challenge monster. The other is strategic mastermind. Well-rounded with an emphasis on social interaction doesn't rate to them. It's a chicken/egg discussion about whether they take a cue from viewers or viewers take a cue from them. 

For those of us who like spoilers, we heard that Michele won, but so many of the spoilers were sketchy. Trusting them was unwise. But the suggestion that she won might make me watch the spoiled winner more closely to see how production tells the story. Being spoiled is why I never suggested she won. I already knew that it was a very strong possibility. 

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

I wouldn't say anyone's obtuse, either. What I will say is that production has long implied that there are "best" ways to play the game. One is challenge monster. The other is strategic mastermind. Well-rounded with an emphasis on social interaction doesn't rate to them.

So true. This is probably why they don't seem to have really bothered with trying to find a way to edit those types of games so that more people can understand how those people win.

I was not spoiled for this season (except for accidentally seeing a rumor that Tai made F3) and I do think the editing was lacking a bit where Michele is concerned, but I still believe she got a credible winner's edit.

[SlackerInc]

I was not spoiled one bit, and I was very impressed with what I saw from Michele on screen, at least after mid- March.

[NutMeg]

On 5/21/2016 at 3:34 AM, azshadowwalker said:

I wouldn't say anyone's obtuse, either. What I will say is that production has long implied that there are "best" ways to play the game. One is challenge monster. The other is strategic mastermind. Well-rounded with an emphasis on social interaction doesn't rate to them. It's a chicken/egg discussion about whether they take a cue from viewers or viewers take a cue from them. 

For those of us who like spoilers, we heard that Michele won, but so many of the spoilers were sketchy. Trusting them was unwise. But the suggestion that she won might make me watch the spoiled winner more closely to see how production tells the story. Being spoiled is why I never suggested she won. I already knew that it was a very strong possibility. 

Not relating to this season, because after the fact I do get why Michele won, but I must say I've been puzzled in previous seasons when some posters were adamant that player x was going to win, when it was far from obvious (all right, I'm short sighted, but I wear contacts or glasses :) ) and oftentimes I wondered if they had just come from the spoiler thread and were seeing the whole episode with spoiler-thread-glasses. And that's something that I really dislike. People who are spoiled (their choice, I'm choosing not to be spoiled) shoud be nice enough to only comment on what's been shown and keep their "glee!" moments for the spoiler thread. YMMV, etc. 

[ProfCrash]

Most spoiler readers do not bring spoilers into the non-spoiled topics. Anyone who does is normally called out fast by other spoiler readers. We know that most folks don't want to be spoiled.

[peachmangosteen]

I think the problem is just that if you read spoilers then it's almost impossible for your opinions to not be informed by them and so sometimes you can inadvertently spoil something when discussing episodes.

I actually didn't even know there were spoilers that Michele won. People were making it seem like there were no spoilers for this season. I'm glad I didn't decide to venture into the spoiler thread!

[ProfCrash]

Not really. Normally the spoilers are pretty speculative. It is rare that a season is fully known in advance. Most of the discussion is actually in the spoiler thread. I can honestly say that the discussion in the thread episode is on the episode only and I rarely see someone in the spoiler thread speculating in the episode threads. People are pretty careful.

The spoilers for this season were lame. Unless there is a contestant who spills everything or a former contestant who knows someone competing spoilers are more speculation based on screen captures and vague clues someone might have gotten from some where. The only seasons that were really well spoiled were Russell's seasons last two seasons because he told all.

Take a look at this seasons spoiler thread. Now that the season is over you won't have anything ruined. You can see what I am talking about and maybe it will make you feel more comfortable with things.

[fishcakes]

Even if people aren't active in the spoiler thread here, the could be getting spoilers elsewhere and then posting here in the episode threads. I looked at our  spoiler thread a few days ago and it was mostly innocuous (although Michele as winner was spoiled a week before the finale), but based on some pretty out of left field commentary that one poster was making throughout the season, I'm pretty sure that he/she was spoiled and making "predictions," so I'm going to add that poster to my ignore list next season.

[ProfCrash]

Your call. Based on what I saw at most sites, there were no real spoilers for the season. Sometimes people see the show differently enough to make a call that others missed.

[fishcakes]

16 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm curious how Michele's win was spoiled a week before the finale.  I mean, how is that possible?  I thought only a handful of show insiders knew that info.

There's a 5/12 post in the spoiler thread saying that someone named Missyae spoiled Michele as the winner; no idea who that is or if he's associated with Redmond. Missyae also evidently spoiled the boot order and Joe's medevac. I avoid spoilers like poison, so I don't know who any of the people are or how they get their information.

[ProfCrash]

Missyae is the one who spoiled Russell's seasons with his help. She/he has largely been discredited. I didn't follow the spoilers all that diligently but the first 6 or so pages that I read had Caleb's evac and that was about it. There were 8 pages left. I think it was in the main stream press that there were three evacs, I know Rob discussed it on Rob Has a Podcast and he dies not look at or allow Spoilers. He and Stephen were trying to figure out who the last evac would be and had settled on Joe because of his age, guessing he would be the one most likely to fail towards the end. I have no idea about the boot order or when it was released so i can't comment on that.

[LadyChatts]

At the start of the season, Peter gave me this vibe that he could win.  Thankfully I was wrong. I don't know that I ever remember seeing Michele in any final 3 combo until a week or so before the finale.  I thought she might win, but given that her edit wasn't as big as some of the others, also thought it was impossible.  Going into the finale, I thought she had a chance since Aubry and Tai had ticked off some of the jurors. The editing during the finale, though, made me think I was wrong once again and that Aubry was taking it.  Last season, having returnees spill the info, a lot of spoilers were also picked up by promos and press pics.  People knew before the premiere about the third tribe and that Varner made it because of the gold buff.  In a press pic of Monica/Jeremy/Stephen, there was a Ta'Keo canteen in the back, indicating they made the swap.  This season they got more careful.  I also don't remember there being a ton of accurate spoilers for WA.  I do think something was spoiled in the Ponderosa shots, but I was skeptical of that.  Actually, did that even turn out being right?

Edited May 24, 2016 by LadyChatts

[Special K]

The only thing about the Ponderosa shots was that it seemed clear that contestants from this season were used in those shots (well, their legs were walking down the pier).  It seemed to suggest who was on the jury and by omission who wasn't, though the shot was so blurry, I don't think anyone can say to this day if the final three were in it or not -- as in they could have filmed it after FTC when everyone (presumably) was at Ponderosa.

But the piers shot did seem to show Scott, Jason, and Cydney, I think. But some speculated that Tai was there too. I think the single pair of feet walking along the beach away from the camera were Julia's.

It was more detective work than spoilage.  :)

[azshadowwalker]

9 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Even if people aren't active in the spoiler thread here, the could be getting spoilers elsewhere and then posting here in the episode threads. I looked at our  spoiler thread a few days ago and it was mostly innocuous (although Michele as winner was spoiled a week before the finale), 

A lot of the information discussed in the spoiler thread came from Reddit. Michele's win was suggested as early as the second week of March, but the supposed final five was almost completely wrong otherwise. So even those who believed that Michele won would have known very little about how the season unfolded. I think discussion of Michele getting to the end and winning begins on about page 4 of the 14 pages in the spoiler thread. At least, that's how it is on my tablet. First post with her in final five was posted on March 9th. 

Like others have said, though, most of us who read them keep the information to ourselves and certainly don't know how everything turns out. I wrongly predicted that Tai would end up being betrayed by Scot and Kyle, despite reading spoilers. Since there's no way to know if they are true or not, it's best to rely on what is shown in the edit. 

 

Quote

But the piers shot did seem to show Scott, Jason, and Cydney, I think. But some speculated that Tai was there too. 

I thought it showed everyone but the final three. I think it was eventually agreed that the leggings belonged to Cydney, the tattooed legs belonged to Kyle, and Scot was there, too. I didn't want to believe it, because I wanted Cydney to make finals over Tai. In the end, though, I think it was an actual spoiler based upon good detective work. Still bums me out. 

Edited May 25, 2016 by azshadowwalker

[KimberStormer]

I have finally seen the finale (posting from undisclosed vacation location) and I just wanna say Michele looked fucking fabulous at the reunion.  Crazy dress but I loved it.  Now no more until I return because my keyboard is loud and my brother is trying to sleep.

[NutMeg]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

I have finally seen the finale (posting from undisclosed vacation location) and I just wanna say Michele looked fucking fabulous at the reunion.  Crazy dress but I loved it.  Now no more until I return because my keyboard is loud and my brother is trying to sleep.

KimberStormer, there you are! I was surprised not to hear from you after the finale :) Enjoy your vacation, I'll look forward to reading your insights when you next procrastinate...

[ByaNose]

7 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I have finally seen the finale (posting from undisclosed vacation location) and I just wanna say Michele looked fucking fabulous at the reunion.  Crazy dress but I loved it.  Now no more until I return because my keyboard is loud and my brother is trying to sleep.

I had the opposite reaction to Michelle's dress. When I saw it I was like, "Why is she wearing a Granny dress?". Usually, the young woman dress in short dresses or in Kim Spradlin's case....shorts! That said, I don't have any sense of style and Michelle's dress could have been designed by some famous designer & cost a million dollars. LOL!!!

[peachmangosteen]

I loved Michele's dress. I thought she was the only one who looked almost as good at the reunion as she did on the island.

[phlebas]

19 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I loved Michele's dress. I thought she was the only one who looked almost as good at the reunion as she did on the island.

I can't come with you on this :)  Michele was very pretty, unsurprisingly enough, but I thought Aubry was smokin' at the reunion. I don't know what Cochran's love life is like right now, but he might want to add her number to his favorites list.

[marys1000]

While Alecia has the excuse of being a spoiled rather stupid self centered child who is proud of everything she does Michelle is, I belive, a self proclaimed environmentalist. Yet she participated in the tiger petting thing which is thing is heinous and so intuitively wrong. I hate both of them (at least based on what I know) and pretty much everyone who swims with dophins, pets tigers etc. http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/asia/thailand-tiger-temple-cub-bodies-found/index.html

While Alecia has the excuse of being a spoiled rather stupid self centered child who is proud of everything she does Michelle is, I belive, a self proclaimed environmentalist. Yet she participated in the tiger petting thing which is thing is heinous and so intuitively wrong. I hate both of them (at least based on what I know) and pretty much everyone who swims with dolphins, pets tigers etc. http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/01/asia/thailand-tiger-temple-cub-bodies-found/index.html

[KimberStormer]

I'm beginning to think Michele is the ultimate Game Changer, because her win so infuriated Probst that he's destroyed the best game ever created over it.  Survivor was beautiful, RIP

[LadyChatts]

15 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

I'm beginning to think Michele is the ultimate Game Changer, because her win so infuriated Probst that he's destroyed the best game ever created over it.  Survivor was beautiful, RIP

What I find humorous is that Probst blamed the KR jury (mainly Scot and Jason) for influencing the outcome over Aubry, that he said that's why they have the new jury format.  Yet, I can't help but think Adam's display at the MvsGX finale had something to do with that.  Now it's basic talking points, and I was thinking this was a way to avoid sob stories getting into the mix, and people actually having to answer for the game moves.  But the HHH final 3 proved me wrong on the sob stories part, so thank you Chrissy and Ben!  Okay, Chrissy's wasn't a sob story, but she still gave a story about moms and heroism and inspiration.  I would have voted Ryan solely for having to defend his game moves, and doing quite well at it.  I also think Brad losing to Sarah last year might have something to do with them doing the F4 twist this year.  Though if Tai made it to the final 3, I kind of think he might have won.  Brad was really not well liked, except by Debbie and Sierra.  Ozzy liked his approach to the game, but in one of his jury speaks videos (hey, why didn't we get those this year?) he said he liked Tai a lot for the same reasons.

I still can't say I like Michele much or agree with her win, but Probst needs to let it go.  Seriously, he's had favorites lose before in the final 3, we know there's been winners he doesn't like, but for some reason the KR season eats at him.  Survivor was better before he became a producer.  And I don't know what planet he's on or where these fans are that claim they love all these twists, changes, evolution of the game, big moves, and that he knows best when it comes to implementing changes and twists.  I know there are a lot of fans out there, and some do agree, but for the most part, a lot of fan communities online hate what the show has become.  Twitter can be a hard read, because I know some people complain for the sake of complaining, and others are so desperate to get noticed and cast that they'd do anything to make Probst happy.  And when the fans complain, we're wrong!  We're wrong for not liking the people he does, and for liking people he doesn't like.  I just love reading his spin on things and how "the fans were hungry for this".  Yeah, I was dying to see Devon go from sure thing final 3 to losing in a tie breaker to a guy that the show helped along because...story?  

[TVFan1]

I loved Michele's win. I wanted her to win ever since I saw her on the Beauty tribe. This was the first time I was for a player to win from start to finish.

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

And I don't know what planet he's on or where these fans are that claim they love all these twists, changes, evolution of the game, big moves, and that he knows best when it comes to implementing changes and twists.  I know there are a lot of fans out there, and some do agree, but for the most part, a lot of fan communities online hate what the show has become.  

The online community of most shows is such a small portion of the overall audience. I actually can easily believe that most of the audience, or at least a lot of it, especially casual fans who don't really care much about it beyond watching it from week to week, like what it's become. Which sucks for me because it means '100 idols! New game-changing twist! Here's another advantage!' will just continue until the end of the show.

10 hours ago, TVFan1 said:

I loved Michele's win. I wanted her to win ever since I saw her on the Beauty tribe. 

Same. She's also one of the few winners I called from every early on, which makes me feel smart lol.