S05.E08: A Reptile Dysfunction

[ShadowFacts]

 

Which, IMO, is disturbing because the hero is turning into someone whose first response is to kill than to capture. I can understand if there was absolutely no way  to stop someone and/or killing in self-defense but seriously I do think that Nick is turning into one of those Grimms that just ends up killing all of the Wesens that come their way.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about what Nick is doing now, Grimm- and cop-wise (I am sure I think he's an idiot where Adalind is concerned).  He cannot be a completely clean cop because of the nature of the things the wesen do that he and Hank end up investigating.  So for example recently he let the Mafia princess skate even though she killed her suitors, and he also put the 'Lost Boys' (and girl) back into the foster system after they kidnapped Rosalee and kidnapped and caused the death of another woman.  So he's still not on the path of kill first, ask questions later.  He pretty much knows that Trubel is, though, and it is problematic that he kind of used her as a weapon in this episode, just the way that Juliette is being used as a weapon.  I can't say as I like it very much. 

[Darklazr]

I was more annoyed at Trubel encroaching on Nick and Hank's wesen of the week story, since she is obviously now the head Grimm and Nick is a side character on his own show.  

 

Yes, all of the Juliette/Eve nonsense is just a way to keep BT on the show when the character should have died last year.

[marceline]

Trubel, Juliette and Adalind can all bite the dust real soon.

 

 

I can honestly say this show has some of the worst female characters I've seen on a sci-fi show. The only thing missing is Jeri Ryan's Seven of Nine walking through in her silver bodysuit and pushup bra.

 

Rosalee is the only one who doesn't repeatedly make me roll my eyes.

Edited February 8, 2016 by marceline

[Fable]

So I will have to wait I think eight days before NBC makes it available online .

 

 

I'm quite sure Hulu has these episodes the day after they air.  

[Darklazr]

I'm quite sure Hulu has these episodes the day after they air.  

 

CBS and NBC make their shows available the next day, ABC makes you wait an entire week.   I watched the 2/5/16 episode of Grimm the next day.

[TVSpectator]

I'm not sure how I feel about what Nick is doing now, Grimm- and cop-wise (I am sure I think he's an idiot where Adalind is concerned).  He cannot be a completely clean cop because of the nature of the things the wesen do that he and Hank end up investigating.  So for example recently he let the Mafia princess skate even though she killed her suitors, and he also put the 'Lost Boys' (and girl) back into the foster system after they kidnapped Rosalee and kidnapped and caused the death of another woman.  So he's still not on the path of kill first, ask questions later.  He pretty much knows that Trubel is, though, and it is problematic that he kind of used her as a weapon in this episode, just the way that Juliette is being used as a weapon.  I can't say as I like it very much. 

 

I don't know, part of why I liked Nick was because he was at least, trying to solve the cases a) within the law, and b) avoiding at all coast to not have the cases end in a murder. Although, what I got from this episode was that Nick was more than willing to end this case in a murder because he felt there was no way he could bring anyone in and just decided, before even having a suspect, to have it end in death. Although, I can see the reason why he wouldn't have arrested the mafia princess and a few others, but, IMO, lately death has been a go-to for him. Maybe it's because of all of the things that is happening around, but I do think that he is losing that certain unquie aspect of his Grimmness.

Edited February 7, 2016 by TVSpectator

[mythoughtis]

Nick stopped worrying about killing Wesen way back in Season 2.... about the time he started mailing heads to the Royals in Europe.   

[Lii]

Nick stopped worrying about killing Wesen way back in Season 2.... about the time he started mailing heads to the Royals in Europe.   

 

This. Nick has always been able to separate CopNick from GrimmNick when he needs to. He's always been able to chop heads and illegally detain bitches in the basement of the spice shop and so forth, if it was a thing that needed GrimmNick instead of CopNick to be involved. Also, yes, he's involving Trubel in his cop stuff -- but he was bringing Monroe in as a "consultant" way back at the beginning of Season One. Let's be real, here. 

 

It would be 100 times better if Monroe was more involved, like back in the day. Also, if he still has his clock fixing job, I'm pretty curious about that. Unfortunately, back in the day we didn't have as many regular characters as we do now, because these writers are idiots and can't let go of any side character that gets half a social media mention, so they decide to not only make them a regular but give them some random side subplot of their own because speshul snowflake, but all that crap has gunked the show up and made less room for Nick and Monroe and Hank, which I personally miss because it was an epic bromance, but it is what it is. This Show; These Writers.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Lii

[Prevailing Wind]

Wait a minute.  Did the lake monster breathe underwater?  Wouldn't that make him, at the very least, an amphibian?  Well, there goes the "reptile dysfunction" joke.

 

Yes, I expect the science to be as accurate as possible in my Monster Of The Week fantasies.

[Lii]

He might have been doing a butterfly stroke or something... it was too dark for me to see what was even going on, tbh. Just trying to fanwank it into making sense, because, good point.

[Darklazr]

This. Nick has always been able to separate CopNick from GrimmNick when he needs to. He's always been able to chop heads and illegally detain bitches in the basement of the spice shop and so forth, if it was a thing that needed GrimmNick instead of CopNick to be involved. Also, yes, he's involving Trubel in his cop stuff -- but he was bringing Monroe in as a "consultant" way back at the beginning of Season One. Let's be real, here. 

 

It would be 100 times better if Monroe was more involved, like back in the day. Also, if he still has his clock fixing job, I'm pretty curious about that. Unfortunately, back in the day we didn't have as many regular characters as we do now, because these writers are idiots and can't let go of any side character that gets half a social media mention, so they decide to not only make them a regular but give them some random side subplot of their own because speshul snowflake, but all that crap has gunked the show up and made less room for Nick and Monroe and Hank, which I personally miss because it was an epic bromance, but it is what it is. This Show; These Writers.

 

I loved Nick and Hank and Nick and Monroe scenes from the very beginning which is why I hate the addition of Trubel in the mix.  Wu's snarking, Renard's leadership, and Rosalie's awesomeness at the Spice Shop is what made the show so great along with the wesen of the week.  Juliette should have remained a seldom seen character and Adalind was always good for her craziness and then gone for months at a time.

[Lii]

I know right? It's like, when's the last time Wu even got a good snark in? Because probably that was the last time it was a good episode.

[Darklazr]

I know right? It's like, when's the last time Wu even got a good snark in? Because probably that was the last time it was a good episode.

 

Wu has been absent a lot in the last several episodes beginning when Truble showed up at Nick's paint shop home.  Wu could have been the one that protected Trubel at the hospital and instead he disappeared for most of the episode.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The best thing about this episode was the funny title!

 

I was cracking up that everyone is in these tiny sterile cells and that Trubel's is dominated by her weapon wall while the main feature in Juliette's is a wall used as a closet and five rave wigs. The whole underground lair reminded me of the Initiative on Buffy, so Eve ended up reminding me of Angelus. I'm sure they will find the Grimm equivalent of the Shanshu prophecy so they can turn Eve back into Juliette. Blech. Heh, but does that make Meisner's group Wolfram and Hart?

 

When that redhead asked Renard if she could make a suggestion, I jokingly thought it would be, "Take off your shirt." But then she locked the door and "seedy music" played!

[Palomar]

 

 

It's almost stunning to me to see how much less I enjoy this show now that Juliette is back. She never bothered me as much as others but now I can't stand the sight of her. She's the very definition of "no one was clamoring."

 

 

ITA.  It was very easy to get used to Juliette being killed off.  I didn't realize how annoying she was even before she turned into the evil Juliette.  Was really hoping she would not return but of course that was bound to happen. There is just no redeeming her even as Eve no matter what develops. There are certain things that are unforgivable and Juliette crossed that boundary. 

 

I imagine there will be the Nick slowly falling for Eve as he gets to know her post transformation, ala Adalind. 

[ShadowFacts]

Where has Bud been?  It might be good to find out what the eisbeibers know and think about the uprising.  I didn't catch, were the two brothers in this episode eisbeibers or just looked kind of like them?  I thought maybe Nick said something about it but I didn't understand.

[Lii]

Where has Bud been?  It might be good to find out what the eisbeibers know and think about the uprising.  I didn't catch, were the two brothers in this episode eisbeibers or just looked kind of like them?  I thought maybe Nick said something about it but I didn't understand.

 

They were "garblegarble, something similar to eisbeibers" according to Nick and someone else who also said the exact same line. I couldn't make out the garblegarble part. Quite possible that the writers leave blanks in the script for *insert wesen name here* and forgot to fill that one in. I'd believe it.

 

Are there just like no other women in Portland or something? Does it have to be either Adalind or JuliEve? Presuming the showrunners have a deep and burning need for Nick to have a girlfriend, which in itself is dumb because it presents less opportunities for shirtlessness, but whatevs, then DOES IT HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER? Ugh. Episode of wesen speed dating for Nick, anyone?

[theatremouse]

They were "garblegarble, something similar to eisbeibers" according to Nick and someone else who also said the exact same line. I couldn't make out the garblegarble part. Quite possible that the writers leave blanks in the script for *insert wesen name here* and forgot to fill that one in. I'd believe it.

I didn't hear it clearly either, but from a visual standpoint the brothers looked otter-ish to me, while Bud is beaver-ish (hence eisbiber). So yeah, another smallish mammal that spends lots of time in/near water. Edited February 9, 2016 by theatremouse

[Lii]

Yeah, they totally looked like otters. The faces were slimmer and the fur was like... wetter? Dunno, I suck at explaining things. I bet they used to swim around in that lake at night on the reg.

[ottilie]

I wonder if the brief line where Meisner didn't know what the bowl of food he was eating was suggests he is a shapeshifting alien, or a human who destroyed his tastebuds.

 

I also think that a couple of lines in the show, or perhaps a lack of explanation, make it unclear what has happened with T.rubel in the past months. It only would make sense if she learned about the Hadrian's building in the last week or two, shortly before the rest. They shouldn't have had her explain 'this is my room' as though she's been there a while. She must have first returned to the northeast, then contacted Chavez again and agreed to be sent to different cities on missions, without very much knowledge of everyone else's activities.

[jhlipton]

I wonder if the brief line where Meisner didn't know what the bowl of food he was eating was suggests he is a shapeshifting alien, or a human who destroyed his tastebuds.

 

I think it's meant to convey that the food is fairly tasteless, or all tastes the same.  Prison-type food.

 

Or to quote Tom Lehrer:

"Our mess sergeant's taste buds were shot off in the war

But his savory concoctions add to our esprit d' corps

To think of all the marvelous ways

They's using plastic now-a-days

It makes a fellow glad to be a soldier!"

Edited February 9, 2016 by jhlipton

[ShadowFacts]

I wonder if the brief line where Meisner didn't know what the bowl of food he was eating was suggests he is a shapeshifting alien, or a human who destroyed his tastebuds.

 

I also think that a couple of lines in the show, or perhaps a lack of explanation, make it unclear what has happened with T.rubel in the past months. It only would make sense if she learned about the Hadrian's building in the last week or two, shortly before the rest. They shouldn't have had her explain 'this is my room' as though she's been there a while. She must have first returned to the northeast, then contacted Chavez again and agreed to be sent to different cities on missions, without very much knowledge of everyone else's activities.

 

Also, when she first came back and Nick took her to the hospital and found a bunch of fake IDs in her jacket, one of them gave a Portland address which was an apartment that Wu checked out.  So what's the point of that if she's a bunker dweller?  What's with the fighting with Meisner, I am just confused.

[johntfs]

I think it's meant to convey that the food is fairly tasteless, or all tastes the same.  Prison-type food.

 

Or to quote Tom Lehrer:

"Our mess sergeant's taste buds were shot off in the war

But his savory concoctions add to our esprit d' corps

To think of all the marvelous ways

They's using plastic now-a-days

It makes a fellow glad to be a soldier!"

 

I did like the bit of deadpan humor with Eve when she tasted it and declared it to be chicken.

[Darklazr]

Yes, there are obvious plot holes with Lauren living in a Portland apartment, Trubel's room at the bunker, and notdeadJuliette's bunker near Trubel's bunker.  Why is Truble staying with Nick and Adalind if she has two other places to live?

 

If I close my eyes real tight, Juliette died after being scratched by Adalind's cat, and Adalind's schemes to become pregnant never came true because she's barren!

[theatremouse]

I wonder if the brief line where Meisner didn't know what the bowl of food he was eating was suggests he is a shapeshifting alien, or a human who destroyed his tastebuds.

I did like the bit of deadpan humor with Eve when she tasted it and declared it to be chicken.

I was definitely amused, but confused by what they were going for with that exchange. Are they trying to tell us something funky about Meisner, or Eve? Unclear. I hope it goes somewhere interesting instead of just being a weird little moment.

Geeze, why do I even say things like that? I feel like that's my response to nearly every episode now: I hope it goes somewhere interesting but I really doubt it will. Sigh.

[OtterMommy]

Geeze, why do I even say things like that? I feel like that's my response to nearly every episode now: I hope it goes somewhere interesting but I really doubt it will. Sigh.

 

As I said in another thread, I've never seen such bad use of Chekhov's gun as I do in this show....

 

Still haven't watched this ep.  You'd think I'd be all over a non-Adalind episode, and I thought I would be, but I just seem to have lost any and all interest in turning it on.

[johntfs]

I was definitely amused, but confused by what they were going for with that exchange. Are they trying to tell us something funky about Meisner, or Eve? Unclear. I hope it goes somewhere interesting instead of just being a weird little moment.

Geeze, why do I even say things like that? I feel like that's my response to nearly every episode now: I hope it goes somewhere interesting but I really doubt it will. Sigh.

 

I think the idea is that Eve approaches everything with the same kind of relentless focus.  She'll solve the mystery of "what kind of meat is this?" with the same determination she applies to defeating Black Claw.

[ottilie]

I'm not totally kidding with regards to shapeshifting or projecting a preferred body shape, although it wasn't my first thought. They solved one plot hole by explaining that Capt. Renard's mother is a witch who can project her preferred appearance, even though hexenbiests really look like a skeleton. His mother tells him  once 'show me your real self".

  They never explain what Meisner is. If he's a nonmagical person, that would show that nonmagical people can have skills too. But maybe he is some other creature.

[OtterMommy]

I'm not totally kidding with regards to shapeshifting or projecting a preferred body shape, although it wasn't my first thought. They solved one plot hole by explaining that Capt. Renard's mother is a witch who can project her preferred appearance, even though hexenbiests really look like a skeleton. His mother tells him  once 'show me your real self".

  They never explain what Meisner is. If he's a nonmagical person, that would show that nonmagical people can have skills too. But maybe he is some other creature.

 

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say about Elizabeth--that all happened, but it makes no sense when put up against Juliette (season 4).  If looking "normal" is a skill hexenbiests have, Juliette should have spent at least a couple episodes looking like a corpse until she learned how to project herself.

 

Of course, nothing on this show makes any damn sense.

 

As for Meisner, if I were a betting woman, I'd put money on him being a Zauberbiest.

[Darklazr]

Why can't Meisner just be an ordinary human with martial arts and bad ass skills?

[Texasmom1970]

Juliet/Eve continues to be be mind numbingly boring. 

 

 

Not only that she is harder to get rid of than an STD!

[OtterMommy]

Why can't Meisner just be an ordinary human with martial arts and bad ass skills?

 

From a functioning (ha!) show's point of view, that would mean that he would overshadow the hero.  

 

From Grimm's point of view, everyone has to be "special".

[Lii]

Also, when she first came back and Nick took her to the hospital and found a bunch of fake IDs in her jacket, one of them gave a Portland address which was an apartment that Wu checked out.  So what's the point of that if she's a bunker dweller?  What's with the fighting with Meisner, I am just confused.

 

I am too, and I don't think it's us, I think it's them. As in, I think they have no idea what they're doing or where they're going with this, so they're just throwing all sorts of shit at all sorts of walls and running with what they think is sticking, which, LOL, is apparently Adalind making out with Nick and Juliette being the baddest ass who ever badassed. 

[Blue Plastic]

I refuse to call her Eve.  Having PTSD and changing your name is not "dying" and being reborn as a different person.

Agree.  They're going to have to explain more than just saying Meissner "did what he had to" if they want to sell the idea that even though this woman walks and talks like Juliette and has her memories, she's actually a totally new person named Eve.  That's a pretty big sell and they're not doing much to convince me so far.  Neither the writing nor the acting is up to the task.

 

Can someone refresh my memory as to the relationship between Trubel and Eve? I've totally lost track. Trubel claimed she didn't know Juliette had survived, let alone was acting as an operative for this organization they both worked for. But she DID know they had taken Juliette's body, and were hoping for this, though she didn't think to mention the possibility to Nick. But now we see Trubel and Eve living and working together? I mean, Juliette walked into that ops-room with Nick, and Trubel did not react to her presence AT ALL, which seems really weird for someone seeing the big-sister-figure they KILLED alive again for the first time. Am I missing something, or does none of this make any sense? Trubel is my favourite thing this show has ever done, hands down. But she is driving me crazy this season because either she knows everything about what's happening and is lying about it for some reason (but the show is setting her up as our trustworthy entry point to this organization, so that doesn't work), or she DOESN'T know and just doesn't care.

 

This is so frustrating! I want my uncomplicated badass back!

All of this!  I know!  Trubel comes off very shady now and I don't want her to be lying to Nick about anything.  The only thing I really enjoyed in this episode was when Trubel came to kick the brothers and the sea creature Wesen around, and then when she was talking to Nick and Hank.  I don't want anything to mess that up.

 

I'm really not buying the argument that Eve isn't Juliette, ergo has no responsibility for Juliette's actions..

I don't either.  The writers just really want us to let it go because they just lurve Juliette/Eve/Bitsie.  But I don't remember us viewers ever asking for "badass Juliette" to ruin everything last season.  The writers are the ones that took the character so far and made her do such crappy things that now they have to write the whole show even further into a corner to get themselves out of it.  Now we have this even crazier storyline to cover it, with a super secret gov't department with supernatural agents that live in underground bunkers that look more like jail cells - which will probably never be explained any better than the "royals" were.

 

What I really want to know is what kind of creature Meissner is or what kind of technique does he have that allows him to control and "break" the strongest Hexenbiest that has ever lived?  But I don't suppose we'll ever get an explanation for that.  Any more than we will get Eve/Juliette ever even bothering to express remorse for her part in killing Nick's mother.  She's over it, so we should be too.

[Darklazr]

Not only that she is harder to get rid of than an STD!

 

BT is dating DG, so the character of Juliette will be here until the end, unfortunately!

From a functioning (ha!) show's point of view, that would mean that he would overshadow the hero.  

 

From Grimm's point of view, everyone has to be "special".

 

We already have one special snowflake, so I would prefer Meisner to be human.

[Prevailing Wind]

 

BT is dating DG, so the character of Juliette will be here until the end, unfortunately!

I wonder what would happen to the Special Snowflake if the real life people broke up.  Not that I wish heartache on anyone, but an amicable, mutual break-up might serve the show.  On second thought, TPTB would probably stick with BT & marginalize Nick even more.

[OtterMommy]

I wonder what would happen to the Special Snowflake if the real life people broke up.  Not that I wish heartache on anyone, but an amicable, mutual break-up might serve the show.  On second thought, TPTB would probably stick with BT & marginalize Nick even more.

 

Replying in the Everything Wrong thread...

[Darklazr]

I wonder what would happen to the Special Snowflake if the real life people broke up.  Not that I wish heartache on anyone, but an amicable, mutual break-up might serve the show.  On second thought, TPTB would probably stick with BT & marginalize Nick even more.

 

Grimm is a business and the show runners should not have to take into consideration two actors offscreen love life.  Juliette should have died and not come back.  Adalind should have never been pregnant, again.  Kelly and Diana should still be in hiding.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's stick with episode talk please. Discussion of how or why actors stay or return does not belong in this topic, and future posts that discuss it may be removed without notification.

[OtterMommy]

Hey, I finally watched this show!  

 

First of all, what a pointlessly boring episode.  This was like the Rat King episode in that it could have been good--it had the right elements--but it just wasn't executed well.  KGC (er, one of them) said that this episode was "Fargo-esque."  Country bumpkins wearing flannel who got into shady business is NOT Fargo-esque.  That's like saying Animal Farm is about what happens in a barnyard.

 

Was it just me, but was the acting from some of the extras (er, people with only a few lines) unusually bad?  I don't get it--there is a vibrant theater scene here in Portland with some really fabulous performers...they should be able to hire better talent.

 

I'm still really on the fence about Jacqueline Toboni.  I think she's a great actress...until she opens her mouth.  I just really wish she would add some inflection to her voice!

 

There was a conversation upthread about how cold the water was.  The weather in this area was really hot until the rains started and since things still looked very dry in the outdoor scene, I'm pretty sure it was filmed while we were still having a heatwave.  However, the scene with the swimmers at night (and the girl in the bikini) really looked like it was filmed on a sound stage to me.

 

Oh, the otter wesen--they (the wesen, not the specific characters) were introduced way back in season 2.  In "Kiss the Muse" the guy who was obsessed with the Musai and committed the murder was that kind of wesen.  I am glad that they aren't introducing new wesen left and right and going back to some that are already introduced but never really explored.

 

I was also really disappointed with this ending....just sending Trubel in to take care of things?  It felt like the writers lost control of the story and just had to do SOMETHING to wrap it up.  Sadly, that is becoming more and more common with this show.

Edited February 19, 2016 by OtterMommy

[theatremouse]

I'm still really on the fence about Jacqueline Toboni.  I think she's a great actress...until she opens her mouth.  I just really wish she would add some inflection to her voice!

I think her tone is an acting choice, not a lack of range. Whether one thinks it's a good choice is a separate thing...but I do think it's intentionally how she's decided to play the character.

[OtterMommy]

I think her tone is an acting choice, not a lack of range. Whether one thinks it's a good choice is a separate thing...but I do think it's intentionally how she's decided to play the character.

 

It could be...I've never seen her in anything but Grimm (I know she had a bit part in Major Crimes, I think...but I never saw it), so it would be interesting to see if she is just as monotone when she is someone other than Trubel.

Edited February 19, 2016 by OtterMommy