Players in the People v OJ Simpson: Kathryn, Faye and Various Others

[zoeysmom]

It still pisses me off to this day. Here were his attorneys who were using his black skin to push their agenda, but the asshole was not known for embracing his black heritage. I watched a documentary about this whole race card thing being played out by the attorneys as they hoped to influence the jury. This documentary went into detail about Simpson's "white privileged life". I wish I could remember the finer details of that documentary. There were a couple of articles that also went into detail about Simpson's life. One thing I do recall from one article is how it mentioned how the only time Simpson seemed to be a black man was when he was being chased by the LAPD. 

 

From what I gathered from various sources that I read back in the day when this all happened, Ron enjoyed what Nicole's lifestyle offered him. I am not at all saying he used Nicole. He truly enjoyed her friendship. It just had perks. She knew well-known people and rich people. She went to the upscale night clubs and other places where Ron enjoyed going to. He loved the attention he received when he was seen with Nicole or using her car. His friends mentioned those two were definitely not dating. Ron was enjoying the lifestyle that being friends with Nicole brought to him. He was a handsome, young man who enjoyed the dating scene in the upscale area that he frequented. 

Tagging on to your thoughts, Zoesdad went to USC with none other than Robert Kardashian.  After graduating from USC he did his post grad work at UCLA.  He continued to use the USC library and during this time he was helped by a young African American woman named Marguerite Simpson.  Zoeysdad has a tongue twister of a last name and Mrs. Simpson apparently remembered it and how to pronounce it.  Zoesdad ran into Mrs. Simpson, they recognized each other, she had her two children, one a toddler and the other an infant and thought to himself-wow  this guy has it made, a beautiful wife, two children a Heisman and professional football career and wide acceptance into the USC crowd (white people).  Moving forward, Zoeysdad ran into Bob Kardashian.  Bob invited him to a USC event and added, "OJ will be there we are the best of friends."  My husband asked, "oh will his wife be there? I remember her from SC."  He said the look Bob gave him was one of disbelief as if why would she be invited?  Apparently, OJ had been rumored to be sleeping with everything that moved and a common denominator is they were white women.  Zoeysdad didn't go and really didn't support a lot of USC events.  My husband sensed that OJ, with the help of his new white friends, was pulling away from this lovely women he had married and eventually bore him three children. 

 

So when OJ got arrested, and Robert Kardashian popped up, he mentioned that OJ could do better in the smarts department than having Bob Kardashian as an attorney.

 

I do think OJ enjoyed the benefits of being accepted into a primarily white social crowd, in later years he was part of a primarily white broadcast team.  It is not to say he did not keep his friendship with his African Americans, I found this about his relationship with Johnny Cochran.  http://www.amazon.com/The-Run-His-Life-Simpson/dp/0679441700#reader_B00BO4GT0G

[Almost 3000]

I understand that Court TV was repackaged as Tru tv.

but they don't have the live court telecasting anymore.

[Midnight Cheese]

Tagging on to your thoughts, Zoesdad went to USC with none other than Robert Kardashian.  After graduating from USC he did his post grad work at UCLA.  He continued to use the USC library and during this time he was helped by a young African American woman named Marguerite Simpson.  Zoeysdad has a tongue twister of a last name and Mrs. Simpson apparently remembered it and how to pronounce it.  Zoesdad ran into Mrs. Simpson, they recognized each other, she had her two children, one a toddler and the other an infant and thought to himself-wow  this guy has it made, a beautiful wife, two children a Heisman and professional football career and wide acceptance into the USC crowd (white people).  Moving forward, Zoeysdad ran into Bob Kardashian.  Bob invited him to a USC event and added, "OJ will be there we are the best of friends."  My husband asked, "oh will his wife be there? I remember her from SC."  He said the look Bob gave him was one of disbelief as if why would she be invited?  Apparently, OJ had been rumored to be sleeping with everything that moved and a common denominator is they were white women.  Zoeysdad didn't go and really didn't support a lot of USC events.  My husband sensed that OJ, with the help of his new white friends, was pulling away from this lovely women he had married and eventually bore him three children. 

 

So when OJ got arrested, and Robert Kardashian popped up, he mentioned that OJ could do better in the smarts department than having Bob Kardashian as an attorney.

 

I do think OJ enjoyed the benefits of being accepted into a primarily white social crowd, in later years he was part of a primarily white broadcast team.  It is not to say he did not keep his friendship with his African Americans, I found this about his relationship with Johnny Cochran.  http://www.amazon.com/The-Run-His-Life-Simpson/dp/0679441700#reader_B00BO4GT0G

 

WOW.  This was an amazing read zm!

 

I remember reading about Marguerite.  Remember OJ's recent girlfriend?  He has caused big-time suffering for so many people.

 

http://dlisted.com/2008/08/27/dear-christine-prody-its-time-to-go/

[LIMOM]

but they don't have the live court telecasting anymore.

HLN, home of Nancy Grace televises the big court cases if you are interested.

The original Court TV was the best though.

[JennyMominFL]

I

 

 

One thing I will always wonder about.  I was seeing a detective who occasionally worked with the LA detectives, even though he was now in another city.  The day after the murder he talked to some of the detectives and I don't remember much of what he told me, but one thing has always stuck with me, and it was never admitted as evidence.  He told me they found blood residue in the OJ's sink drain (it had been taken apart.)  Maybe it was too degraded, maybe the cops thought they already had plenty to convict on, who knows? 

 

"Blame the victim" was indeed part of the trial.  Was it a deciding factor?  I don't think so, but I do believe it played a small role. 

 

 

There was also a large blood drop on Nicoles back that was likely not hers.. It was "lost".

 I remember everything about this case. Everything. And I  Can't watch the miniseries.  Once years ago, I was driving through Brentwood. I passed Rockingham. Kept going, minutes later I passed Bundy. I remember all of the crap about how he wouldn't have had time etc etc... Bullcrap

[JennyMominFL]

Whenever the subject of the OJ trial comes up, I think of Ron's father, Fred and his sister, Kim. That young man may have liked living in the fast lane a bit, but he was loved. Really loved. And Fred and Kim will never get over what happened to him.

I will never ever forget the sound of Kim Goldman's crying when the verdict was read. Never. I also remember the jury foreman stating flat out that they discarded all of the abuse evidence because, "This was a murder trial, not domestic abuse," Moran said. "If you want to get tried for domestic abuse, go in another courtroom and get tried for that.".  And her statement that they didn't really understand DNA

Edited January 23, 2016 by JennyMominFL

[Almost 3000]

HLN, home of Nancy Grace televises the big court cases if you are interested.

The original Court TV was the best though.

Thank you. I guess I just haven't been as interested and have Nancy Grace burnout. I also think judges aren't letting cameras into very many trials anymore. As to the housewives involved with the case its just to heavy handed at the moment or maybe I just don't like what seemed like a clumsy Lisar/tptb ambush on the new girl.

[LIMOM]

I will never ever forget the sound of Kim Goldman's crying when the verdict was read. Never. I also remember the jury foreman stating flat out that they discarded all of the abuse evidence because "This was a murder trial, not domestic abuse," Moran said. "If you want to get tried for domestic abuse, go in another courtroom and get tried for that.".  And her statement that they didn't really understand DNA

Besides the fact that DNA was a relatively new science used in the courtroom, none of the jurors had any scientific background.

It was domestic abuse but Cochran turn the trial into a case of civic disobedience. (Which has its place but not here IMO)

[GreatKazu]

Besides the fact that DNA was a relatively new science used in the courtroom, none of the jurors had any scientific background.

It was domestic abuse but Cochran turn the trial into a case of civic disobedience. (Which has its place but not here IMO)

It also didn't help (it helped the defense, not the prosecution) how they made sure to confuse the jury on the DNA evidence. There was mention of cross-contamination and how any blood evidence couldn't be reliable due to how it was mishandled by the forensic team and the supposed planting of evidence. There was a video of a criminalist who was collecting blood and never changed their gloves during collection of two or more samples. 

[Umbelina]

Here is the jury:

Profiles: Who are the O.J. Simpson jurors?

Jurors

28-year-old married black woman, works for the post office, high school graduate; said as a young child, she watched her father beat her mother and "as an adult I don't go for any man being abusive to me''; said she wasn't familiar with DNA; was "shocked'' to hear Simpson was a suspect.

24-year-old single black woman, works at a Los Angeles hospital, one year of college; said she has had no experience with domestic violence; said of both sides in the case: "Everybody has a lot to lose or gain.''

50-year-old divorced black woman who works as a county collections vendor, two years of college; said she "respects (Simpson) as an individual based on his past accomplishments.''

32-year-old single Hispanic man, delivers Pepsi, high school graduate; said Simpson was "a great football player.''

37-year-old married black woman, works in a post office, high school graduate; said she doesn't think Simpson "acts too well'' in movies and described the freeway pursuit that ended in Simpson's arrest as "stupid.''

38-year-old single black woman, environmental health specialist whose father was a police officer, college graduate; said the 911 tapes of Nicole Brown Simpson calling for police help as Simpson broke through her door in October 1993 "sound frightening.''

52-year-old divorced black woman, postal worker, high school graduate; described Simpson as "only human.''

22-year-old single white woman who handles insurance claims, college graduate; said she was shocked when she heard Simpson was a suspect.

43-year-old married black man who works as a phone company salesman, high school graduate; said he thought Simpson was a good football player; alternate juror until Jan. 18.

60-year-old divorced white woman who is a retired gas company clerk, one year of college; said she was the lone holdout in another murder case and managed to get other jurors to change their minds; alternate juror until March 17.

44-year-old single black woman who fixes computers and printers for county Superior Court, high school graduate; said Ms. Simpson "wasn't a saint''; had no opinion about whether Simpson is innocent or guilty; said in jury selection, "If I'm not picked, I can look at it and say, they let a good one go;'' alternate juror until April 5.

71-year-old married black woman, retired cleaning worker, completed 10th grade; said of the case: "I haven't come to no conclusion one way or the other. ... I don't know nothing about no O.J. Simpson;'' alternate juror until May 26.

Alternates

If any more jurors are dismissed or cannot continue service, their replacements would be selected randomly from this list:

72-year-old married black man, security guard.

24-year-old married white woman, receptionist.

Dismissed

48-year-old single black man, who does quality control for Hertz Corp., for whom Simpson was a spokesman.

38-year-old Hispanic letter carrier who said she had suffered verbal and mental abuse from an ex-boyfriend.

63-year-old white female who suffers arthritis and was treated by the same doctor who plans to testify about Simpson's health.

46-year-old black courier who was the subject of numerous complaints over several weeks. He denied the allegations, including one that he made a bet with a co-worker before the trial that Simpson would be acquitted.

52-year-old married man, half American Indian and half white, who works as an Amtrak manager. Sources say he was suspected of writing a book about the trial. He said was keeping a journal on his computer and acknowledged he might eventually have turned it into a book, but insisted he did nothing wrong.

38-year-old married black woman who, as an employment counselor, referred domestic violence victims to other agencies. She failed to reveal a past personal experience with domestic violence. Her complaints about racial strife among jurors and preferential treatment by some deputies prompted the judge to investigate.

26-year-old single black woman who works as a flight attendant; told the judge, "I can't take it anymore.'' During jury selection, she said she saw Simpson in "Roots'' and "Naked Gun'' movies and "he seemed like he would have a good sense of humor.''

38-year-old married white woman who works for a telephone company. Another juror accused her of receiving preferential treatment from deputies guarding the jury and treating black panelists unfairly. It also was reported that her husband had pneumonia and she told the judge she didn't know if she could continue to serve.

54-year-old married black man who works as a postal operations manager; said he was "shocked'' when he first heard Simpson was a suspect; alternate juror until Feb. 7. No reason for dismissal given.

28-year-old single Hispanic woman who works as a real estate appraiser with Los Angeles County assessor's office; about the slow-speed pursuit, she said she "wondered why he ran;'' said Simpson was "the only person who had a visible motive;'' had no opinion about whether Simpson was guilty or innocent; alternate juror until May 1. No reason for dismissal given.

By The Associated Press

This was a jury of his peers.  He lived in Brentwood.  How did they get practically an all black jury?  That verdict was in the moment the jury was seated.

 

I get it in a way.  I certainly heard people say that letting OJ off was for all the black men who never had a chance against the system.  The LA police department at that time had pretty well-documented racism, including a video of them beating Rodney King. I feel like letting OJ off was, at least partially, retribution for other black men who didn't get fair treatment by the LA cops, and if I were to guess, most members of that jury had seen that unfairness, that racism, in their own lifetimes, or their friends', neighbors'.  A way of balancing out the injustices of decades, centuries, I even remember someone bringing up To Kill A Mockingbird, the whole black man/white woman gimme trials of the past. 

 

The defense team knew he was guilty as hell, so they switched the script, OJ wasn't on trial, the LA police department and DA office was, they turned it around, and it was brilliantly successful.  Would it have worked on a more representative jury?  Maybe.  At the very least I think they would have had a hung jury.

 

Also, Marcus denied sex with Nicole, under oath.  As far as I know, the only one who said Nicole and Marcus had sex was her "friend" Faye Resnick.  For money.  Did anyone else say Nicole told them that?  Because yeah, I'm certainly not going to take Faye's word for it.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Umbelina

[lunastartron]

Of course, Marcia Clark was in it to win a conviction and not a deadlock - that doesn't mean she was ever going to get anymore than most longshot candidates for Presidents are going to surmount low polling and low name visibility to obtain the nomination.

 

She and the prosecution allowed a former Black Panther into the juror pool - the aforementioned Lionel Cryer who performed the Black Power salute at the reading of the verdict (this is not a commentary on the legitimacy of the BP but strident activism suggests a propensity for advocacy, not impartiality, imo). She disregard the focus groups she and the DA's office had assembled while Cochran and the defense specifically constructed major elements of their strategy around their own fgs.

 

Clark herself has said that, in retrospect, she could feel "justice being subverted long before we started picking a jury" and that "I think even if they'd had a videotape of him committing the murders, he would have been acquitted. It would have been argued that someone had hired an actor who looks like him to carry out the murders. The conspiracy theories were absurd, but a jury in search of an excuse will always find one."

 

That is what I'm referring to when I assert that the best Clark could have realistically hoped for in context - whether she realized it at the time or not - was a hung jury.

 

Cochran, Bailey, and company also referred to Anise Aschenbach, the white woman who initially voted for conviction, as "the Demon" in their private meetings.

 

As for the matter of motive and an immediate fuse to O. J.'s homicidal explosion, both Toobin and Faye address a financial dispute that had roiled the relationship between him and Nicole in the weeks prior to murders and reportedly finally bolstered her resolve at decisively cutting him off permanently. She had sold a condominium in San Francisco that she had rented out and managed to evade paying taxes on the sale by noting that the Bundy Drive Brentwood residence, the purchase of which she subsidized with the SF sale proceeds, was also going to be an investment rental property while she lived at the Rockingham residence with O. J. When their reconciliation ended, she moved into the Brentwood condo and O. J. threatened, both verbally and in writing through his lawyer, to report her to the IRS for tax fraud, the fine for which would have drained all of her resources. She purportedly viewed this, unlike the physical abuse she suffered, as a direct attack on the children's welfare, which compelled her to refuse his request to sit with her and her family at the school function on the day leading up to the slayings.

 

As for the slut-shaming, it was worse from the respondent team in the civil trial. Baker, O. J's attorney in that venue, said Nicole hung out with literal "prostitutes" in his opening statement, connected her to Heidi Fleiss in the same monologue, and claimed she brought "drug dealers" into the home while Sydney and Justin were present.

 

In addition to her disquisitions about Nicole being "ruined" for white men by the sexual prowess of black dudes, Faye in her book claimed that Marcus Allen and Al Cowlings were O.J.'s only black friends and that he never helped out black charities and implied that he basically wanted to be white.

 

Vis-à-vis Faye's continuing friendship with Kris, she's appeared on KUWTK multiple times and Kris officiated at Faye's wedding ceremony earlier this year.

Edited January 23, 2016 by lunastartron

[LIMOM]

And what ethnicity does Faye claim?

[lunastartron]

Faye claims she's Spanish-Italian through her mother but also, oddly, that said mother hailed from the patrician Old South. I don't know that she has ever specified her dad's heritage but her stepfather was white.

[LIMOM]

Spanish Italian? Really?

Maybe she means Afro Hispanic.

Patrician old south?

I am surprised that she does not call herself creole.

Self hatred runs deep with this one.

[suomi]

She also referenced Corsican heritage in one interview. I remember that because some JFK assassination theorists propose that shooters were imported from the Corsican mafia. (Corsica is an island in the Mediterranean belonging to France)

Edited January 23, 2016 by suomi

[Cranky One]

GreatKazu, you are spot on with your post about jury and I agree with your post 100%. If that jury was mostly white people with an upper income bracket, I'm willing to bet it would have been a different verdict. I'm surprised Clark and Darden agreed to thst jury.

Zoeysmom, fascinating story! Just think, you could have been keeping up with the Kardashians! Lol

P.S. Great posts in here! Because I'm on my phone, I'm mentally liking everyone's posts!

Edited January 23, 2016 by Cranky One

[Umbelina]

http://allthingsrh.com/photos-of-faye-resnick-throughout-the-years-before-plastic-surgery-plus-what-is-her-ethnicity/

 

Faye Resnick through the years.

Faye and Nicole

 

Faye and Kathy

 

transformed for Playboy:

 

I believe she angrily address questions about her race in that Geraldo interview earlier in the thread. 

More about Faye or at least her book:

'Diary' Opens a New, Lurid Chapter : Author: Faye Resnick's bumps in the fast lane would be unremarkable except that she shared some of them with Nicole Simpson.  http://articles.latimes.com/1994-10-20/local/me-52588_1_nicole-simpson

 

Sounds like her German stepfather beat her for bed wetting, and she never knew her real dad.

[Almost 3000]

Oh, joy! A link which contains Dominick Dunne's body of work for Vanity Fair, including the Letters From Los Angeles. But of course. Enjoy.

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/search?q=dominick+dunne

Thank you. Bookmarked it. Loved him.

[Umbelina]

June 13, 1994 Nicole and Ron were murdered.  OJ verdict came in Oct. 3, 1995

 

Thought I'd check the ages of the RHBH involved people, and the people being discussed on the show, at the time.  That's IF google birthdays are correct.

 

Kyle, 25 (She married Mauricio on January 20, 1996, became pregnant around verdict date in Oct 1995)

Kim, 30 (in case her upcoming filming has to do with this.)

Kathy, 35

Faye, 37

Kathryn, 30

Lisa R, 31

Eileen (since she dated Marcus) 35

Nicole, 35

Kris Jenner (since she was and still is part of the OJ group of Kathy/Faye/Kyle  divorced Robert Kardashian in 1991 ) 39

OJ, 47

Marcus Allen, 34

Ron Goldman, 25

 

ETA, just went by 1994, not actual birthdays.  Year of birth, and used 1994 as date of murder.  If I missed any or got any wrong, let me know!)

Edited January 24, 2016 by Umbelina

[lunastartron]

I had to kill some time today so I skimmed through my Toobin again. I didn't realize this before, but he devotes a not insignificant number of pages to parsing the impact Faye's book deal generated upon the trial.

As to the question of whether or not its ramifications were substantive, Judge Ito himself suspended the jury selection for two days and wrote to the chiefs of major news networks and requested that they cancel any interviews scheduled with Resnick: "surprised by It's reaction, the defense lawyers tried to use the Resnick crisis into abandoning the case entirely." There deconstruction of the events in question are lengthy, so I'm excerpting some importants quotes below but the general thesis is summarized here" "The Resnick controversy did provoke Ito into taking a hard line with jurors on the question of their own habits of media consumption. After the book was published, the judge ordered the remaining candidates not to watch any television, read any newspapers or magazine, or set foot in any book store. Ito discharged one juror after she admitted to watching videotaped episodes of primetime soaps - not matter that her husband had first deleted all of the commercials. A man was excused because he had watched cartoons with his grandson, as was a woman who watched a Barbara Stanwyck movie on television. With each winnowing, the jury pool grew ever more African-American and female."

 

Ito's pause on jury selection prompted "intense curiosity about the book in public - and probably in the prospective jurors as well. Thanks to the push from Ito, Private Diary rocketed to numbers one on the NYTimes best-seller list . . . "

 

"As for Resnick's purported desire to help the Simpson children, Dove donated $10,000 to the foundation Nicole's parents established in her memory. This largesse amounted to about once cent for each of the one million or so copies of Private Diary that were sold."

 

(In the book, Faye literally writes that she considers suicide before realizing that she has to be strong for Sydney and Justin and author the tell-all.)

 

"The irony of Resnick's book is that notwithstanding the accusations against O.J., it amounted to a generous gift to the defendant . . . Resnick would have made a dicey prosecution witness in the best of circumstances. Still, if she had simply come forward after her murder and told her story to the police, the prosecutors would have probably called her to the stand . . . Resnick's accusations . . .had the ring of truth about them. But the book made Resnick anathema to Clark . . . her conspicuous cashing in on her access to the principals would have given the defense too much ammunition in their cross-examination."

 

"In the book, Resnick quoted Simpson as saying such things as, 'I can't take this, Faye, I can't take this. I mean it. I'll kill that bitch.'"

 

Toobin interviewed Resnick himself and she said she was inspired by The Pelican Brief - the movie, not the book - to pen Private Diary.

[lunastartron]

ETA: the bolding makes script look odd on handheld but not laptop so this post may be irrelevant

Weird - the bolding seems to have made certain sentences illegible. In any case, Ito suspended jury selection for 48 hours in direct response to the book's release. He became draconian in his moratorium on jury candidates consuming any media - watching videotaped tv shows with commercials edited out, a cartoon viewing with a grandkid, and a Barbara Stanwyck oldie got three potential jurors discharged - with the effect being that the final pool grew more African-American and more female. As for the question of her deep concern for Sydney and Justin, the publisher donated 10k to the foundation that that Browns established in Nicole's name - or one cent for every book sold (when Ito freaked out, he wrote to the presidents of the news networks in order to ask them to cancel all scheduled interviews with Faye and the defense petitioned him to hold Dove Books in obstruction and rule that a fair trial was henceforth impossible).

Edited January 24, 2016 by lunastartron

[suomi]

From the essay OJ's Life Sentence for Vanity Fair, by Dominick Dunne

 

I'm so sorry, kiddo, I did everything I could. ~ Marcia Clark, crying, to Kim Goldman after the verdict.

 

It is hard for Kim Goldman to understand that the life Simpson faces will be painful. She remains unconsoled by the prospect that in many areas he will become a social leper, unwanted, uninvited, barred.

 

"What does it matter to me if people walk out of a restaurant when he walks in? I won't be there to see it," she said to me a few nights after the verdict. We were having dinner at Drai's with Cynthia McFadden of ABC and Shoreen Maghame of City News in Los Angeles. Kim hates Simpson with the same passion that her father hates him. "He's free, and my brother's dead." She described Simpson in the courtroom seconds after the verdict. "He leaned over and looked at me and smiled. I said, 'Murderer.' "

 

 

[savannah1985]

I highly recommend Dominick Dunne's Another City, Not My Own if you're interested on the OJ trial. It's not very well written, but still very readable. It's supposed to be fiction but it's Dunne's personal story of the trial and he had a permanent seat in the courtroom...the only media person to have one. He knew everybody and there isn't one name he was unwilling to drop. In spite of its subject matter it's a fun, trashy read.

[LIMOM]

She also referenced Corsican heritage in one interview. I remember that because some JFK assassination theorists propose that shooters were imported from the Corsican mafia. (Corsica is an island in the Mediterranean belonging to France)

Lol.

My grandmother was Corsican.lol

I would live to exchange notes with ms Faye....

[JennyMominFL]

From the essay OJ's Life Sentence for Vanity Fair, by Dominick Dunne

 Dominick Dunne is another one whose life makes me sad as hell. The man knows an injustice when he sees it, that's for sure.

[zoeysmom]

I had to kill some time today so I skimmed through my Toobin again. I didn't realize this before, but he devotes a not insignificant number of pages to parsing the impact Faye's book deal generated upon the trial.

As to the question of whether or not its ramifications were substantive, Judge Ito himself suspended the jury selection for two days and wrote to the chiefs of major news networks and requested that they cancel any interviews scheduled with Resnick: "surprised by It's reaction, the defense lawyers tried to use the Resnick crisis into abandoning the case entirely." There deconstruction of the events in question are lengthy, so I'm excerpting some importants quotes below but the general thesis is summarized here" "The Resnick controversy did provoke Ito into taking a hard line with jurors on the question of their own habits of media consumption. After the book was published, the judge ordered the remaining candidates not to watch any television, read any newspapers or magazine, or set foot in any book store. Ito discharged one juror after she admitted to watching videotaped episodes of primetime soaps - not matter that her husband had first deleted all of the commercials. A man was excused because he had watched cartoons with his grandson, as was a woman who watched a Barbara Stanwyck movie on television. With each winnowing, the jury pool grew ever more African-American and female."

 

Ito's pause on jury selection prompted "intense curiosity about the book in public - and probably in the prospective jurors as well. Thanks to the push from Ito, Private Diary rocketed to numbers one on the NYTimes best-seller list . . . "

 

"As for Resnick's purported desire to help the Simpson children, Dove donated $10,000 to the foundation Nicole's parents established in her memory. This largesse amounted to about once cent for each of the one million or so copies of Private Diary that were sold."

 

(In the book, Faye literally writes that she considers suicide before realizing that she has to be strong for Sydney and Justin and author the tell-all.)

 

"The irony of Resnick's book is that notwithstanding the accusations against O.J., it amounted to a generous gift to the defendant . . . Resnick would have made a dicey prosecution witness in the best of circumstances. Still, if she had simply come forward after her murder and told her story to the police, the prosecutors would have probably called her to the stand . . . Resnick's accusations . . .had the ring of truth about them. But the book made Resnick anathema to Clark . . . her conspicuous cashing in on her access to the principals would have given the defense too much ammunition in their cross-examination."

 

"In the book, Resnick quoted Simpson as saying such things as, 'I can't take this, Faye, I can't take this. I mean it. I'll kill that bitch.'"

 

Toobin interviewed Resnick himself and she said she was inspired by The Pelican Brief - the movie, not the book - to pen Private Diary.

Here is a partial transcript of Faye's deposition in the civil proceeding. http://simpson.walraven.org/fr_depo3.html  At the time the total she had been paid for BOTH books was $193,000.00.  So essentially Dove's contribution was about 5% of what Faye made.    Marcia Clark penned a deal pre-verdict for $4 million and collected a her salary and huge amount of compensation for overtime.  There is just no moral compass on either side.  I can understand once OJ was acquitted why the children's fund was stoked.  They had a father who not only could support them but had sole custody.

 

So if this quote from Toobin is correct, the police never contacted Faye Resnick prior to the book being released?  It would just seem as part of an investigation, and searching for the truth and prior bad acts people like Faye, Nicole's housekeeper and numerous other "friends" and acquaintances would be contacted.   Anyone who had been around OJ and Nicole in the months prior to the homicide.

 

Since the prosecution lost the case in hindsight they probably should have called Faye.  it certainly could not have hurt their case.  These Monday morning quarterback statements are interesting only because it shows the prosecution was not reading the jury.  Does anyone remember if the  last year of Nicole and OJ's wife was laid out for the jury? 

[kokapetl]

Here is a partial transcript of Faye's deposition in the civil proceeding. http://simpson.walraven.org/fr_depo3.html At the time the total she had been paid for BOTH books was $193,000.00. So essentially Dove's contribution was about 5% of what Faye made. Marcia Clark penned a deal pre-verdict for $4 million and collected a her salary and huge amount of compensation for overtime. There is just no moral compass on either side. I can understand once OJ was acquitted why the children's fund was stoked. They had a father who not only could support them but had sole custody.

So if this quote from Toobin is correct, the police never contacted Faye Resnick prior to the book being released? It would just seem as part of an investigation, and searching for the truth and prior bad acts people like Faye, Nicole's housekeeper and numerous other "friends" and acquaintances would be contacted. Anyone who had been around OJ and Nicole in the months prior to the homicide.

Since the prosecution lost the case in hindsight they probably should have called Faye. it certainly could not have hurt their case. These Monday morning quarterback statements are interesting only because it shows the prosecution was not reading the jury. Does anyone remember if the last year of Nicole and OJ's wife was laid out for the jury?

Wow. Is there any part of the American justice system that is not warped to the point of absurdity? One lawyer asks the morally corrupt Faye a question, 3 lawyers for three parties instantly raise objections, and it's considered unnecessary for a judge to be present for this?

[zoeysmom]

Wow. Is there any part of the American justice system that is not warped to the point of absurdity? One lawyer asks the morally corrupt Faye a question, 3 lawyers for three parties instantly raise objections, and it's considered unnecessary for a judge to be present for this?

During the discovery phase there is no judge.  If a witness refuses to answer a question(s) they make a motion and the judge rules whether or not the witness has to answer.  I think it might have been overreaching asking how many siblings Faye has.  There was a very odd thing going on where the attorney kept referring to the book and asking Faye to remember.  She didn't write the book and I noticed eventually they laid some foundation about reading from the book and even then one of the clown attorneys kept holding up the wrong book.

 

I am still bewildered why Faye and some of these people weren't approached by the police during the course of the investigation.  I would think it important to interview people who had been around OJ and Nicole the months before the murder.

[kokapetl]

During the discovery phase there is no judge. If a witness refuses to answer a question(s) they make a motion and the judge rules whether or not the witness has to answer. I think it might have been overreaching asking how many siblings Faye has. There was a very odd thing going on where the attorney kept referring to the book and asking Faye to remember. She didn't write the book and I noticed eventually they laid some foundation about reading from the book and even then one of the clown attorneys kept holding up the wrong book.

I am still bewildered why Faye and some of these people weren't approached by the police during the course of the investigation. I would think it important to interview people who had been around OJ and Nicole the months before the murder.

But discovery with such an extensive scope is a uniquely American thing too, right? And that is pretrial as well. Do other common law jurisdictions feature anything like that? I understand that the reasoning for this pretrial stuff is to lead to settlements before trials, and not waste time and money on trials, but is any time and money being saved if everyone, even third parties like Faye, essentially need legal teams for this pretrial part? It's like a trial of the trial without a judge.

[lunastartron]

The quote from Toobin about "if she had just gone to the police" is confusing because the opening scene of Faye's book depicts an alleged meeting in Marcia's office in which she asks Faye to testify and Faye agrees. After that meeting, Faye fled town to Vermont in order to pen her book. According to Faye, she left LA because her home was burglarized and her diaries stolen (hence her book's title). She says she knew OJ committed the burglary by proxy and that he was going to murder her for what she knew about his death threats to Nicole, etc. She says her attorney put her in touch with her co-writer and told her writing all of her secrets from the stolen diaries was the best way to protect herself from being killed by OJ. The prosecution called Denise Brown to provide eyewitness testimony about the abuse Nicole endured over their marriage; they also called neighbors who lived near Nicole after their divorce who testified that OJ would watch/peep/stalk Nicole through the windows of her new house (I think most of this was pre-reconciliation). The jury disregarded Denise's testimony as performative/fueled by vendetta. Darden and Clark did not do a good job of establishing the nuances in the marital dynamic - ie why Nicole stayed with OJ for almost two decades despite the beatings - and basically portrayed him as a maniacal non-stop wife-abusing machine. That being said, in order to overlook all of the documented domestic violence, the jury had to discount tapes of 911 calls featuring Nicole screaming as she was being struck, testimony from police officers who responded to those calls and let OJ go without arrest, and the selfie Polaroids that Nicole had secreted away in a safety deposit box.

[RedheadZombie]

I'm wondering if anyone here read OJ's book "If I Did It". I'm wondering if he really let true details slip or if it's 100% fiction. I believe the Goldmans went to court to claim any of his profits, so I'm sure (at that point) he lost interest in the book selling.

[WireWrap]

 

I am still bewildered why Faye and some of these people weren't approached by the police during the course of the investigation.  I would think it important to interview people who had been around OJ and Nicole the months before the murder.

I agree with this, I agree they should have been questioned IF the police knew about them but DID they actually know about Faye and others? Along that same line of thinking though, WHY didn't Faye and others that knew NS during the marriage go to the police AS SOON AS THEY HEARD she was murdered? I'm sorry, but if a close friend of mine was murdered and I believed that I knew who had killed her, I would be camping out in front of the police station until the lead Police Investigators/Detectives  listened to me, I would NOT wait until they found me! 

[lunastartron]

Semantics can sometimes be confusing but maybe Toobin meant "If Faye had just gone to the police" in the sense of 'if she had *only* gone to the police rather than divulging the information to them as well as authoring her book.'" 'Cause, remember, Cochran tried to work Faye's nefarious shadow into Det Lange's testimony - so maybe Lange interviewed Faye at some point.

[Atwood]

I'm wondering if anyone here read OJ's book "If I Did It". I'm wondering if he really let true details slip or if it's 100% fiction. I believe the Goldmans went to court to claim any of his profits, so I'm sure (at that point) he lost interest in the book selling.

I read it back when the pdf leaked (I think it was linked on ontd), but I mostly skimmed since that was before my kindle days and reading PDFs on the computer isn't very comfortable. I have some vague memories, mostly in visuals, but I can't really be sure what's from the book and what's from other information sources. I'd reread the Simpson murder file on crimelibrary.com (that site doesn't seem to exist anymore, but I'd spent countless hours on it back in the day), so some things could be mixed up from that. 

 

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly, it could have been one of her other friends, but my memory says Faye. Since I didn't have a face for her back then, it's possible I filled it in afterwards. I'm more than 50/50 that it was her though. If anyone else remember this factoid, I would love some info. Before OJ and Nicole's reconciliation, some of her friends were more interested in keeping up the relationship with OJ. If I remember it correctly, Faye and her significant other had gone on double dates with OJ and his new girlfriend. This had been an additional source of tension, she felt he was isolating her by winning over her friends with his fame and status. Does this sound at all familiar to anyone else?

 

I especially thought it was vile after the fact, since she would have known he had been abusing Nicole. I think that's contributing a bit towards my negative feelings towards Faye, even though I'm not even 100% sure that it WAS her...

Edited January 24, 2016 by Atwood

[lunastartron]

That is Faye. The boyfriend OJ won over was Christian Reichardt. There are scenes in the book in which OJ erupts at Nicole for nothing - like, say just mentioning another man's name in conversation - and Faye tells Nicole to apologize to OJ while he's screaming insane stuff like, "why does she provoke me like this?" Faye's commentary on Nicole's purported affair with Allen also comes across pretty disapproving.

[zoeysmom]

But discovery with such an extensive scope is a uniquely American thing too, right? And that is pretrial as well. Do other common law jurisdictions feature anything like that? I understand that the reasoning for this pretrial stuff is to lead to settlements before trials, and not waste time and money on trials, but is any time and money being saved if everyone, even third parties like Faye, essentially need legal teams for this pretrial part? It's like a trial of the trial without a judge.

Discovery with depositions is just in civil cases in California.  To get the ball rolling the sides "propound" interrogatories to the parties.  Here are the form interrogatories-keep in mind there can be literally hundreds of special interrogatories.  From there the attorneys begin the deposition process. http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/disc001.pdf

 

In California we use preliminary hearings for the most part instead of grand jury indictments.  This is an open proceeding and the prosecution presents enough evidence to get the defendant(s) bound over for trial.  It is in front of a judge.  The standard is different than beyond a reasonable doubt and by statute is to be held within 10 days of arraignment-or was at the time of OJ's case.  I believe Marcia Clark originally wanted to go the grand jury route as those proceedings are not public and the defense is not present.  Instead there was a preliminary hearing and he was bound over for trial. 

 

Discovery in criminal cases in somewhat mutual but not totally.  The prosecution must hand over all police reports interviews, affidavits in support of search warrants etc., the defense not so much-they are required to submit alibi defenses. 

 

Civil cases are very expensive because parties are required to bear their own costs until verdict.  Court reporters and videographers are very expensive.  So the ridiculousness of having four or five attorneys at a deposition is evident.

[zoeysmom]

I agree with this, I agree they should have been questioned IF the police knew about them but DID they actually know about Faye and others? Along that same line of thinking though, WHY didn't Faye and others that knew NS during the marriage go to the police AS SOON AS THEY HEARD she was murdered? I'm sorry, but if a close friend of mine was murdered and I believed that I knew who had killed her, I would be camping out in front of the police station until the lead Police Investigators/Detectives  listened to me, I would NOT wait until they found me! 

The police at that time had hundreds of people contacting them.  Jill Shively who saw OJ near Bundy shortly after the murders came forward, a knife salesman they were pretty much ex'd off the list when they sold their stories.  Normally, in a homicide, the police do try and learn a little about the victim.  Who were friends, enemies, even interviewing the children.  Not for purposes of testimony necessarily but for background. What was paramount in this case were witnesses that could verify other physical and verbal abuse incidents by the defendant.  Granted there are only so many hours in a day and so many detectives.  What has always amazed me, is everyday in LA courts prosecutors have to advocate for  victims with questionable character, pimps, hos, drug dealers, adulterers, batterers, drug addicts, organized crime members and street gang members.  To me, this canonization of Nicole was unnecessary.  There is nothing based just on the crime scene, to indicate she was an aggressor.  Forgetting about Nicole's past-what about Ron Goldman?  He was pretty squeaky clean.  Additionally, prosecutors make deals with witnesses and accomplices for their testimony, many, many witnesses are less the stellar members of society.  So this whole idea that whole idea that Faye by writing a book describing her relationships and interactions with OJ and Nicole and being paid for the same should not have been insurmountable.   It is pretty much what the prosecution has to deal with on a day to day basis.

 

Do we know why and when Faye met with Marcia Clark?  Did Marcia find out about her or did Faye come forward.  I am curious if Kris Jenner was ever interviewed by police.

 

ETA-Does anyone know how long Faye was in rehab after the murders?

Edited January 24, 2016 by zoeysmom

[zoeysmom]

Semantics can sometimes be confusing but maybe Toobin meant "If Faye had just gone to the police" in the sense of 'if she had *only* gone to the police rather than divulging the information to them as well as authoring her book.'" 'Cause, remember, Cochran tried to work Faye's nefarious shadow into Det Lange's testimony - so maybe Lange interviewed Faye at some point.

That questioning of Detective Lange though was outside the presence of the jury and the court denied bringing in the drug dealer scenario as not having enough  to support it.  Detective Lange IIRC basically testified the drug dealer angle was not one they would investigate.  It is not up to the prosecution to develop all theories of the crime, once they have a defendant it is their job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant is guilty of the crime. 

[lunastartron]

Cochran questioned Lange in front of the jury. After the entire disquisition on Faye in his opening statements, he wanted to remind the jury that Faye was in residence with Nicole immediately prior to the murders. No, he did not present the detailed theory about the marauding drug dealers but he tried several times to ask Lange on the stand whether or not Lange discovered, "had learned," etc that Faye had lived at Bundy Drive. The exchange prompted a hearsay objection from the prosecution and precipitated a tense episode between Darden and Ito in which Darden made a disrespectful remark to the judge, Ito asked for an apology, Darden refused multiple times, and Ito threatened to hold him in contempt. Darden even requested his own attorney after consulting with Clark until finally capitulating. I only reference this exchange vis-a-vis the question of whether or not the police ever interviewed Faye since Cochran was using Lange to establish that Faye had stayed at Nicole's condominium. I'm going to assume Lange corroborated this directly with Faye, though I could be wrong. I have never read Marcia's memoir but at least one commenter on TWOP back in season 3 noted that Clark devoted at least one passage to Faye's flight to Vermont and characterized it as a willful evasion of law enforcement's efforts to locate and reach out to her. As mentioned above, Faye mentions that she was in fear for her life; if her attorney actually implored her to write the tell-all in lieu of divulging all of her information to the prosecution, this would seem to flirt with obstruction. Wrt to the question of Faye's stint in rehab, she says she was on day 3 when informed of Nicole's murder. I'm going to make an educated guess that she stayed the customary additional 25 days but that's conjecture.

[crgirl412]

And what ethnicity does Faye claim?

All these years I thought that Faye was Jewish!!  I just turned 25 when the verdict came down. 

[Wings]

All these years I thought that Faye was Jewish!!  I just turned 25 when the verdict came down. 

 

 

I assumed she was a mix of black and white.  What is she?  

[kokapetl]

I assumed she was a mix of black and white. What is she?

She's evasive.

[Wings]

She's evasive.

 

If she were some exotic mix she would be boasting.  Seems like she is black trying to pass for exotic or whitish.  Strange woman. 

[JennyMominFL]

Cochran questioned Lange in front of the jury. After the entire disquisition on Faye in his opening statements, he wanted to remind the jury that Faye was in residence with Nicole immediately prior to the murders. No, he did not present the detailed theory about the marauding drug dealers but he tried several times to ask Lange on the stand whether or not Lange discovered, "had learned," etc that Faye had lived at Bundy Drive. The exchange prompted a hearsay objection from the prosecution and precipitated a tense episode between Darden and Ito in which Darden made a disrespectful remark to the judge, Ito asked for an apology, Darden refused multiple times, and Ito threatened to hold him in contempt. Darden even requested his own attorney after consulting with Clark until finally capitulating. I only reference this exchange vis-a-vis the question of whether or not the police ever interviewed Faye since Cochran was using Lange to establish that Faye had stayed at Nicole's condominium. I'm going to assume Lange corroborated this directly with Faye, though I could be wrong. I have never read Marcia's memoir but at least one commenter on TWOP back in season 3 noted that Clark devoted at least one passage to Faye's flight to Vermont and characterized it as a willful evasion of law enforcement's efforts to locate and reach out to her. As mentioned above, Faye mentions that she was in fear for her life; if her attorney actually implored her to write the tell-all in lieu of divulging all of her information to the prosecution, this would seem to flirt with obstruction. Wrt to the question of Faye's stint in rehab, she says she was on day 3 when informed of Nicole's murder. I'm going to make an educated guess that she stayed the customary additional 25 days but that's conjecture.

She was at Nicole's funeral. I remember her expression of Nicole's pained facial expression in her casket. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by JennyMominFL

[lunastartron]

She also said OJ basically confessed at the burial. Some drug treatment centers in California extend day passes to patients, however - Lindsay Lohan filmed an entire movie while in rehab, returning to the facility at night. But to give an idea of the timeline: the book hit shelves on October 17, so that is just over four months from the murders for composition, revision, editing, printing, etc.

[WireWrap]

The police at that time had hundreds of people contacting them.  Jill Shively who saw OJ near Bundy shortly after the murders came forward, a knife salesman they were pretty much ex'd off the list when they sold their stories.  Normally, in a homicide, the police do try and learn a little about the victim.  Who were friends, enemies, even interviewing the children.  Not for purposes of testimony necessarily but for background. What was paramount in this case were witnesses that could verify other physical and verbal abuse incidents by the defendant.  Granted there are only so many hours in a day and so many detectives.  What has always amazed me, is everyday in LA courts prosecutors have to advocate for  victims with questionable character, pimps, hos, drug dealers, adulterers, batterers, drug addicts, organized crime members and street gang members.  To me, this canonization of Nicole was unnecessary.  There is nothing based just on the crime scene, to indicate she was an aggressor.  Forgetting about Nicole's past-what about Ron Goldman?  He was pretty squeaky clean.  Additionally, prosecutors make deals with witnesses and accomplices for their testimony, many, many witnesses are less the stellar members of society.  So this whole idea that whole idea that Faye by writing a book describing her relationships and interactions with OJ and Nicole and being paid for the same should not have been insurmountable.   It is pretty much what the prosecution has to deal with on a day to day basis.

 

Do we know why and when Faye met with Marcia Clark?  Did Marcia find out about her or did Faye come forward.  I am curious if Kris Jenner was ever interviewed by police.

 

ETA-Does anyone know how long Faye was in rehab after the murders?

If Faye was living with NS close to the time of her murder AND had witnessed OJ abusing NS in person then she would be a person they, the police, would want to talk to. As I said, had it been my friend, I would have been camping out in front of the police station to make sure they knew the facts about his abuse and his ongoing threats to my friend. AND, if I was in rehab when the murder occurred, I would make sure that my lawyer or a close personal friend of mine got word to the police ASAP as to where they could contact me, rehab location. My first priorities would be helping find/convict my friends murderer and getting clean/sober, it would NOT be writing a tell all book!

[zoeysmom]

Cochran questioned Lange in front of the jury. After the entire disquisition on Faye in his opening statements, he wanted to remind the jury that Faye was in residence with Nicole immediately prior to the murders. No, he did not present the detailed theory about the marauding drug dealers but he tried several times to ask Lange on the stand whether or not Lange discovered, "had learned," etc that Faye had lived at Bundy Drive. The exchange prompted a hearsay objection from the prosecution and precipitated a tense episode between Darden and Ito in which Darden made a disrespectful remark to the judge, Ito asked for an apology, Darden refused multiple times, and Ito threatened to hold him in contempt. Darden even requested his own attorney after consulting with Clark until finally capitulating. I only reference this exchange vis-a-vis the question of whether or not the police ever interviewed Faye since Cochran was using Lange to establish that Faye had stayed at Nicole's condominium. I'm going to assume Lange corroborated this directly with Faye, though I could be wrong. I have never read Marcia's memoir but at least one commenter on TWOP back in season 3 noted that Clark devoted at least one passage to Faye's flight to Vermont and characterized it as a willful evasion of law enforcement's efforts to locate and reach out to her. As mentioned above, Faye mentions that she was in fear for her life; if her attorney actually implored her to write the tell-all in lieu of divulging all of her information to the prosecution, this would seem to flirt with obstruction. Wrt to the question of Faye's stint in rehab, she says she was on day 3 when informed of Nicole's murder. I'm going to make an educated guess that she stayed the customary additional 25 days but that's conjecture.

Again opening statements are not evidence.   I would think it a stretch that Cochran questioned Lange about being in the residence "immediately prior to the murders" that would misrepresent the evidence.  She had not been there for a couple of days.  Immediate would be a mischaracterization of the facts. be dates and times .  I believe the exact question was nine days prior.  http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1995-02-24/news/9502240255_1_christopher-darden-marcia-clark-nicole-simpson

 

Marcia characterizing something is pretty meaningless.  Faye went back east for 30 days.  Unless there was a material witness order in effect, Faye had every right to go wherever she wanted.  It would be hard to construe something as obstruction when during the crime she was in rehab. They knew where she was and they knew of her.   Marcia also tried to tell the women who saw OJ near the scene that she could be charged criminally for getting paid.  In spite of being berated by Clark, both women agreed to testify. 

 

According to an earlier post when was in Marcia's office before the book was released.  What Faye did may not have been what the prosecution wanted but it does not elevate her to a criminal or even flirting with obstructing justice.      Any person can refuse to answer police questions but be compelled to by subpoena to answer them in open court.    

[Jextella]

I haven't read the Faye Resnick book.  Before jumping in too deep in the anti-Faye pool, I'd like to learn more about what she says in the book. If it is true that the book was intended to shed light on OJ's character - bad character - when no one else would shed light on it, then I'd support Faye.

 

I found myself disliking her simply because she wrote a book - presumably with the intention of profit if from it.  Maybe that's not what happened at all.

 

Also, in watching some of the clips above, she may have had to hire an attorney at some point to protect herself from OJ's allegations and she may have needed the money.

 

I just don't know enough about it.

 

....good idea for a separate thread for this topic.  I recall the trial but there was just too much information pouring in to keep track of.  I'd like a crib  notes version - including all the players and their roles, e.g. Faye, etc.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jextella

[zoeysmom]

If Faye was living with NS close to the time of her murder AND had witnessed OJ abusing NS in person then she would be a person they, the police, would want to talk to. As I said, had it been my friend, I would have been camping out in front of the police station to make sure they knew the facts about his abuse and his ongoing threats to my friend. AND, if I was in rehab when the murder occurred, I would make sure that my lawyer or a close personal friend of mine got word to the police ASAP as to where they could contact me, rehab location. My first priorities would be helping find/convict my friends murderer and getting clean/sober, it would NOT be writing a tell all book!

No one seems to know if and when she contacted the police or if the police contacted her.  Faye did talk to Marcia Clark before the book came out. 

[WireWrap]

No one seems to know if and when she contacted the police or if the police contacted her.  Faye did talk to Marcia Clark before the book came out. 

Talking with the Prosecutor is one thing, a good thing, but did she talk with the investigating police? I haven't read anything that says she did, does she mention it in her book because I have NOT read it and doubt I ever will. I just find it that odd if she didn't and that she wrote the book first BEFORE telling the police all she knew about the physical abuse and the threats against NS by OJ.