Survivor In The Media

[jsm1125]

14 hours ago, SnideAsides said:

Given Nick's track record of voting for POC on his seasons of Australian Survivor (4/5 possible times, and playing a double-vote advantage in one case), and given what I've heard from people who've interacted with him in person, and given what his part of Australia is like in general, I'm fine with calling that racist a racist. I'm not saying he's like a slur enthusiast or anything, or that it's deliberate, but... there's a pattern there.

What person of color did he vote for besides Barry on either of his seasons?

This seems out of left field to me.

[SnideAsides]

9 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

What person of color did he vote for besides Barry on either of his seasons?

This seems out of left field to me.

Moana Hope is part-Māori.

[peachmangosteen]

RHAP: Black Voices of Survivor Roundtable

 

[fishcakes]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

RHAP: Black Voices of Survivor Roundtable

 

I'm going to try to watch this later, but if you've seen it already, do you know why T-Bird was asked to participate?

[LadyChatts]

Out of curiosity, what was the discussion about?  Being black in America, or black representation on reality tv?

Edited June 25, 2020 by LadyChatts

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I'm going to try to watch this later, but if you've seen it already, do you know why T-Bird was asked to participate?

It seems like she had some part in putting it all together along with Sean and Rob. T-Bird only spoke at the end and she talked about how much she loved them all and that she was an ally. They all seemed to love her as well.

2 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Out of curiosity, what was the discussion about?  Being black in America, or black representation on reality tv?

Both, but more so as it relates to Survivor. They talked about their edits, how there are virtually no black or POC working behind the scenes, a bit about the casting process, and about some microaggressions (and aggression-aggressions) that they experienced while playing Survivor.

I recommend watching it. It's interesting.

Julia is doing a solo interview with Rob today about her experience and there's going to be another panel thing with Julia, Brice, Wendell, and other newer players on Friday.

[LadyChatts]

2 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

It seems like she had some part in putting it all together along with Sean and Rob. T-Bird only spoke at the end and she talked about how much she loved them all and that she was an ally. They all seemed to love her as well.

Both, but more so as it relates to Survivor. They talked about their edits, how there are virtually no black or POC working behind the scenes, a bit about the casting process, and about some microaggressions (and aggression-aggressions) that they experienced while playing Survivor.

I recommend watching it. It's interesting.

Julia is doing a solo interview with Rob today about her experience and there's going to be another panel thing with Julia, Brice, Wendell, and other newer players on Friday.

Thanks!  I'm at work so I can't watch it until later, but I just wondered whether it was worth watching or not.  I was curious what Julia had to say especially, since she's the one who made the claim about the contestant using the n-word, and was pretty vocal about her lack of edit and some of the behind the scenes stuff (including the lack of diversity within the production staff and camera team).

[peachmangosteen]

Just now, LadyChatts said:

Thanks!  I'm at work so I can't watch it until later, but I just wondered whether it was worth watching or not.  I was curious what Julia had to say especially, since she's the one who made the claim about the contestant using the n-word, and was pretty vocal about her lack of edit and some of the behind the scenes stuff (including the lack of diversity within the production staff and camera team).

Julia barely spoke lol. She's doing her own interview with Rob today so she said she would talk more during that.

Sabrina talked about being called names, Ted talked about being called the n-word by Clay, and Jolanda spoke about being called the n-word and physically threatened during Ponderosa by '2 twenty-something white men' in her cast.

[LadyChatts]

25 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Julia barely spoke lol. She's doing her own interview with Rob today so she said she would talk more during that.

Sabrina talked about being called names, Ted talked about being called the n-word by Clay, and Jolanda spoke about being called the n-word and physically threatened during Ponderosa by '2 twenty-something white men' in her cast.

Lol as quiet here as she was on the show.  But yeah, I can see where she'd probably hold off until her own interview.  I can't wait to check this out!

In regards to Ted, wasn't that something that Helen (who was incredibly bitter at her ouster) told him?  And then kind of walked the comments back?  I might be remembering wrong.  I watched Thailand for the second time not too far back, and I couldn't remember if the comment was said directly to Ted or not.  Between that and what happened with Ghandia that was a problematic season.  

And Jolanda-yikes!  I've never heard that one before. 

I can remember years ago Gervase, Ramona, and Nick from Outback (so this shows how far back I'm talking lol) complaining about their edits as being very stereotypical-they were the black people who couldn't swim, were edited as lazy, not being able to handle it, etc.  I think Nick kept a somewhat low profile due to his job and schooling in the real world, but he said it was disappointing to just see himself on screen laying around doing nothing.  

[peachmangosteen]

8 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

And Jolanda-yikes!  I've never heard that one before. 

She said that they called her the n-word and then she had to get a pool cue to protect herself because they were trying to fight her. The pre-jury group was broken up and sent on 2 different trips because of this. 

I would watch the panel just for Earl's stories alone. Also because he's fine as hell and has a really sexy voice lol.

[fishcakes]

13 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

In regards to Ted, wasn't that something that Helen (who was incredibly bitter at her ouster) told him?  And then kind of walked the comments back?  I might be remembering wrong.  I watched Thailand for the second time not too far back, and I couldn't remember if the comment was said directly to Ted or not.

This is the first time I've heard that Clay said anything directly to Ted, and I doubt that happened because Ted was so mad at Brian that he was going to vote for Clay to win the million until Helen told him that Clay said something racist about him. Then at the reunion, Clay asked what it was he supposedly said and Ted said that Helen never told him specifically what it was. Both Clay and Jeff asked Helen what it was and she acted like no one was talking to her. She just stared straight ahead and wouldn't speak, and Ted looked at her like he was starting to realize she lied to him. Supposedly Brian heard it too, but when they asked him, he got this panicked look and said something like, "I think it was just a general comment." So I've always thought that Helen lied so that Ted would switch his vote and Brian would win. It's possible that later Helen and/or Brian told Ted that Clay called him the n-word, but based on what happened at the reunion, I'm positive he never said it to Ted's face.

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

She said that they called her the n-word and then she had to get a pool cue to protect herself because they were trying to fight her. The pre-jury group was broken up and sent on 2 different trips because of this. 

Holy shit. That would probably be Jonathan (who was eliminated before the game started along with Wanda) and Jeff (the guy who rolled his ankle). Bobby Jon was also in his 20s, but he was the last of the pre-jury group to arrive at Ponderosa.

[BK1978]

On 6/24/2020 at 9:20 AM, SnideAsides said:

Given Nick's track record of voting for POC on his seasons of Australian Survivor (4/5 possible times, and playing a double-vote advantage in one case), and given what I've heard from people who've interacted with him in person, and given what his part of Australia is like in general, I'm fine with calling that racist a racist. I'm not saying he's like a slur enthusiast or anything, or that it's deliberate, but... there's a pattern there.

That is a lot of circumstantial evidence.  I honestly do not recall why Barry was voted out (They just started posting season one on YouTube and I have started watching it again and the Barry vote was one I was interested in because I remember liking him but for the life of me I don't remember why I like him.) but calling anything to do with voting Moana out racist seems suspect to me.  She was one of the biggest targets in the game, she along with David were the key shot callers of the season.  It would be foolish not to target her.

Saying he is racist because of what part of the country he grew up in is a generalization.  It would be like saying any white people from the American south automatically hate black people, or any black person from South Central Los Angeles automatically hates Koreans.  That is far too broad of a brush to paint. 

Now I obviously cannot defend anything about people having personal interactions with him.  All I am saying is I am not so quick to call someone a racist, I need hard facts before I taint someone with that word.  And the thing is I am not even a Nick fan during either of his seasons I was team Matt Rogers, Moana, and David through and through.  

[LadyChatts]

6 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Holy shit. That would probably be Jonathan (who was eliminated before the game started along with Wanda) and Jeff (the guy who rolled his ankle). Bobby Jon was also in his 20s, but he was the last of the pre-jury group to arrive at Ponderosa.

I also don't think it was Bobby Jon.  It had to be Jonathan and Jeff.  My first thought was James, but he wouldn't fit what she said.  I think Jeff and her butted heads before she was voted off.  so that might make sense it continued after the fact.  That's just crazy, though, that it got into an almost physical altercation.  I'm honestly shocked that's never leaked out.  What the early seasons got away with before social media!

Edited June 26, 2020 by LadyChatts

[peachmangosteen]

I don't think Ted said anyone said it directly to him. I do think he said he had heard people were calling him names and then specifically mentioned Clay.

Sabrina said an older man on her season called her a slur to her face and I'm assuming it was Tarzan since there weren't any other 'older men' in her season. Except I guess perhaps Troyzan. 

[fishcakes]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Sabrina said an older man on her season called her a slur to her face and I'm assuming it was Tarzan since there weren't any other 'older men' in her season. Except I guess perhaps Troyzan. 

My guess would be Tarzan too. He defended Colton at TC and said he was sick of hearing about racism and that the fact that Obama was president proves racism is over. Tarzan was an old ignorant fucker.

ETA: Okay, I tried to watch the video but I only got about ten minutes into it and had to quit. The varying volumes for each person was driving me nuts. I'd have to turn it way up to hear Sean for example, and then Cesternino would come back on AND BLOW OUT MY EARDRUMS. Disappointing because it sounds like it was an interesting talk.

Edited June 26, 2020 by fishcakes

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I would watch the panel just for Earl's stories alone. Also because he's fine as hell and has a really sexy voice lol.

Aggggh!!!!!!!!!!!!  I hope he comes back to play again.

18 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

She said that they called her the n-word and then she had to get a pool cue to protect herself because they were trying to fight her. The pre-jury group was broken up and sent on 2 different trips because of this. 

That's disgusting.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 6/20/2020 at 10:38 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Um ... 

ETA: I poked around a bit more and, yea, Joe is definitely in a cult lol.

I looked this up!  Holy mackerel!

[Nashville]

Yo Joe, a little friendly advice: if you require external validation to determine whether you’re a “real man” or not, then I think you already have your answer.

[LadyChatts]

I actually read some of the replies to that post where people were asking him WTF was he doing.  His replies make even less sense that what he wrote.

Quote

I don't think Ted said anyone said it directly to him. I do think he said he had heard people were calling him names and then specifically mentioned Clay.

It's not that I won't say it didn't happen, but Clay seemed genuinely shocked when Ted made the accusation towards him.  Considering that Helen seemed reluctant to back up her claims when she was asked, I wonder if heard it from someone else and then told Ted.

Edited June 26, 2020 by LadyChatts

[peachmangosteen]

6 hours ago, fishcakes said:

Okay, I tried to watch the video but I only got about ten minutes into it and had to quit. The varying volumes for each person was driving me nuts. I'd have to turn it way up to hear Sean for example, and then Cesternino would come back on AND BLOW OUT MY EARDRUMS. Disappointing because it sounds like it was an interesting talk.

Yea, that is very annoying. Sean's sound was really bad the whole time and he kept breaking up. It was distracting.

[jsm1125]

13 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't think Ted said anyone said it directly to him. I do think he said he had heard people were calling him names and then specifically mentioned Clay.

Sabrina said an older man on her season called her a slur to her face and I'm assuming it was Tarzan since there weren't any other 'older men' in her season. Except I guess perhaps Troyzan. 

Plus, Troyzan seemed too woke to say that.

22 hours ago, BK1978 said:

That is a lot of circumstantial evidence.  I honestly do not recall why Barry was voted out (They just started posting season one on YouTube and I have started watching it again and the Barry vote was one I was interested in because I remember liking him but for the life of me I don't remember why I like him.) but calling anything to do with voting Moana out racist seems suspect to me.  She was one of the biggest targets in the game, she along with David were the key shot callers of the season.  It would be foolish not to target her.

Saying he is racist because of what part of the country he grew up in is a generalization.  It would be like saying any white people from the American south automatically hate black people, or any black person from South Central Los Angeles automatically hates Koreans.  That is far too broad of a brush to paint. 

Now I obviously cannot defend anything about people having personal interactions with him.  All I am saying is I am not so quick to call someone a racist, I need hard facts before I taint someone with that word.  And the thing is I am not even a Nick fan during either of his seasons I was team Matt Rogers, Moana, and David through and through.  

Plus, I didn’t enjoy watching Moana, so it’s possible that those not in her alliance didn’t enjoy playing with her. 

[Nashville]

On 6/25/2020 at 11:35 PM, BK1978 said:

Saying he is racist because of what part of the country he grew up in is a generalization.  It would be like saying any white people from the American south automatically hate black people, or any black person from South Central Los Angeles automatically hates Koreans.  That is far too broad of a brush to paint. 

Yet that same portrait gets painted on a daily basis.  Day before yesterday one of my older daughter’s friends was upset because she had said “y’all have fun” in a FB post, and someone immediately replied and labeled her racist for using the word “y’all” in a sentence.  Apparently being Southern automatically equates to being a racist these days.  I must’ve missed that memo.  🙄

[peachmangosteen]

Targeting mostly POC in both games you played and people pointing that out as a pattern and a possible unconscious bias seems perfectly reasonable to me. 

I am so glad that we finally aren't just letting people's microagressions and unconscious biases go unquestioned anymore. Sometimes it's uncomfortable and sometimes I have to come to terms with my own unconscious biases which is hard but, hey, if it keeps POC from being killed I'll accept that little bit of uncomfortableness lol.

I'm trying to find when Shirin directly called Nick racist. I just watched the F5 round and her whole final speech and she didn't in either of those. She also did not call Adam racist either, which I think has been said other places. @BK1978 do you happen to remember when she directly called Nick racist?

[peachmangosteen]

Survivor Alumni Launch Petition Demanding More Diversity on the Reality Series

J'Tia's Tribes and Tribulations panel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YK4DjRQwI

[LadyChatts]

Quote

Teresa "T-Bird" Cooper, who appeared on season 3, co-hosted the event with Cesternino. During the panel, Cole — who competed in Fiji and became the first Black male Survivor winner — expressed his disappointment in CBS for not highlighting him or his season after the final three were all Black contestants.

Quote

Cole also opened up about not feeling like a member of the Survivor family.

Quote

"I was never invited to any finales," Cole said. "I live in L.A. and the finale was right here. There would be other people from the past there, winners after me there. Not one invitation, not one ... I didn't understand what that was about."

Quote

He also said viewers "hated" his season.

I think Earl pretty much summed up why his season wasn't highlighted.  It was a pretty unpopular season then, and even now.  I've seen many say it was one of the worst final 3s ever because of Cassandra and Dreamz, and that Earl winning was the only saving grace.  I have a feeling if Dreamz had double crossed Rocky with the car deal viewers wouldn't have cared as much.  But Cassandra got dragged to the end, Dreamz (who I think played a good game) was controversial, and then there was Earl.  That's on top of the other moments that season (Rocky vs Anthony, the bitter jury, Lisi/Stacy with their mean girl attitudes towards Cassandra/Dreamz, the car deal gone wrong, etc).  I re-watched Fiji recently, and I'd probably rank it in the middle somewhere.  It wasn't as bad on re-watch, but it wasn't great, either.  I think it's an example of why casting diversity for the sake of diversity doesn't always work.  

That is sad and surprising that Earl hasn't been invited to any finales, but he's been asked back twice, right?  For Game Changers (which I heard he declined for work reasons), and Winners at War (which he couldn't do because of his new baby).  I have a feeling he would have made it on both of those seasons.    

And as for Jeff-does anyone really care what he thinks?  This is the man that thinks Brad Culpepper is one of the best Survivor players ever.  And as to the rest of the article, I would be surprised if any of what they want to see happen (except for possibly having a more diverse cast and crew) will happen.

ETA: in the People article, was showing the World's Apart cast picture (of all casts) the best they could do?

Edited June 27, 2020 by LadyChatts

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

And as for Jeff-does anyone really care what he thinks?  

Yes, unfortunately.

I love Fiji. I liked Earl, loved Cassandra, and found Dreamz entertaining and interesting as hell. Plus, that season has Yau-Man! I will never understand why it's so hated.

[LadyChatts]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yes, unfortunately.

I love Fiji. I liked Earl, loved Cassandra, and found Dreamz entertaining and interesting as hell. Plus, that season has Yau-Man! I will never understand why it's so hated.

I didn’t love it, but after all these years I don’t think it is as bad as people make it out to be.  At worst, I’d probably call it boring, in large part because of the Have Not twist in the beginning.  I always thought the Dreamz/Yau Man thing was over blown.  It wasn’t a good look that Dreamz said until almost the end he’d honor the deal and was excited to have his soon see this.  That said, I like game players.  Dreamz was playing the game and he would have been my winner.  I’ll also saw, too, that this season was wedged between Cook Islands and China, two seasons I found way more enjoyable.  I liked how accident prone Boo was, but he was just there.  I actually found Alex and Edgardo likable on re-watch.  They got overconfident at the merge, and of course Edgardo gave us what was then the best blindside ever (and still is one of the best ones).  I liked Earl, Yau, Dreams, and Michelle.  Most everyone else was either forgettable or I didn't like.   
 

Oh, and I also hated how Michelle got voted off (when they merged, but then divided into 2 teams at the IC, and she wound up with people she hasn’t been in the game with at all-and then they went right to TC, so she didn’t have a chance to plead her case).  But I enjoyed the location.  The Fiji we had then seemed like a very different Fiji than we have now.

Edited June 28, 2020 by LadyChatts

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Targeting mostly POC in both games you played and people pointing that out as a pattern and a possible unconscious bias seems perfectly reasonable to me. 

I am so glad that we finally aren't just letting people's microagressions and unconscious biases go unquestioned anymore. Sometimes it's uncomfortable and sometimes I have to come to terms with my own unconscious biases which is hard but, hey, if it keeps POC from being killed I'll accept that little bit of uncomfortableness lol.

Total agreement - so long as the questioning of others’ motivations doesn’t translate to an automatic indictment.

[BK1978]

14 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm trying to find when Shirin directly called Nick racist. I just watched the F5 round and her whole final speech and she didn't in either of those. She also did not call Adam racist either, which I think has been said other places. @BK1978 do you happen to remember when she directly called Nick racist?

It was not Shirin who I was talking about, it was one of the RHAP commentators who made the comment. 

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, Nashville said:

Total agreement - so long as the questioning of others’ motivations doesn’t translate to an automatic indictment.

It usually doesn't though lol.

13 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I liked how accident prone Boo was, but he was just there.  I actually found Alex and Edgardo likable on re-watch.  They got overconfident at the merge, and of course Edgardo gave us what was then the best blindside ever (and still is one of the best ones).    
 

Oh, and I also hated how Michelle got voted off (when they merged, but then divided into 2 teams at the IC, and she wound up with people she hasn’t been in the game with at all-and then they went right to TC, so she didn’t have a chance to plead her case). 

I forgot Boo was on that season and that that's the season of the Edgardo blindside and the Michelle boot. Man, that season was awesome imo.

8 hours ago, BK1978 said:

It was not Shirin who I was talking about, it was one of the RHAP commentators who made the comment. 

Oh yea, I didn't hear her call Nick racist either. She did point out the fact that he had been targeting all the black players.

[Ms Blue Jay]

21 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yes, unfortunately.

I love Fiji. I liked Earl, loved Cassandra, and found Dreamz entertaining and interesting as hell. Plus, that season has Yau-Man! I will never understand why it's so hated.

I love Fiji too.  Cook and Fiji are definitely in my top 10.  And I would argue that for me, diversity is a big reason why.

23 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

 I think it's an example of why casting diversity for the sake of diversity doesn't always work.  

The flip side of that would be what, casting while ignoring diversity?  For me, that is what doesn't work.

[ByaNose]

I do wonder how Season 39 & Season 40 will affect Season 41 & 42 during this long break whenever they start filming?! If Season 41 had gone out on time they probably wouldn’t have seen how Season 40 ended with Natalie (fire tokens) or how Tony had it all locked up (for the win). I don’t think Extinction Island was coming back into play but the fire tokens might or might have been. How much will production change the theme with whatever cast shows up for Season 41 to keep them on (Or off) their toes?

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I love Fiji too.  Cook and Fiji are definitely in my top 10.  And I would argue that for me, diversity is a big reason why.

The flip side of that would be what, casting while ignoring diversity?  For me, that is what doesn't work.

+1

[KelseyNikki614]

I really enjoyed the Tribes and Tribulations discussion, and I enjoyed the roundtable Rob C did as well although I agree that the sound issues were jarring. It's unfortunate that it took this long and that Survivor has shied away from airing any of the racism which appears to happen regularly. They had no problem airing Varner outing Zeke, why not out these racists too? The number of Black contestants who have said they heard the N word while on the island seems to be high, yet it has never been aired or even publicly called out. We still don't know which contestants were doing these racist actions.  I hope Survivor actually takes the steps laid out in the petition. 

I do remember reading Julia's post after EoE and many people speculating that the person using the N word was indeed Joey Amazing who is a Jeffy favorite and production pet so that makes sense. 

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, KelseyNikki614 said:

I really enjoyed the Tribes and Tribulations discussion, and I enjoyed the roundtable Rob C did as well although I agree that the sound issues were jarring. It's unfortunate that it took this long and that Survivor has shied away from airing any of the racism which appears to happen regularly. They had no problem airing Varner outing Zeke, why not out these racists too? The number of Black contestants who have said they heard the N word while on the island seems to be high, yet it has never been aired or even publicly called out. We still don't know which contestants were doing these racist actions.  I hope Survivor actually takes the steps laid out in the petition. 

I do remember reading Julia's post after EoE and many people speculating that the person using the N word was indeed Joey Amazing who is a Jeffy favorite and production pet so that makes sense. 

Even Sabrina saying “an old man from my season” which is obviously Tarzan. Why not just name him? Are they afraid of lawsuits? I didn’t watch the whole town hall but seems like everyone was dealing in generalIty but not specifically naming anyone outright. Why? Just curious.

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, KelseyNikki614 said:

I do remember reading Julia's post after EoE and many people speculating that the person using the N word was indeed Joey Amazing who is a Jeffy favorite and production pet so that makes sense. 

Yea, it was 100% Joe, who is now in a cult lol.

9 hours ago, ByaNose said:

Even Sabrina saying “an old man from my season” which is obviously Tarzan. Why not just name him? Are they afraid of lawsuits? I didn’t watch the whole town hall but seems like everyone was dealing in generalIty but not specifically naming anyone outright. Why? Just curious.

Well, if they outright name people they're gonna get a lot of people coming at them for calling someone racist so they may not wanna deal with that. This way, they can let the fans themselves suss it out, which is usually quite easy to do, and then they get out exactly who is racist without having to be the one to call them that and take heat for it lol.

[truthaboutluv]

22 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

who is now in a cult lol.

Wait, what?

[Ms Blue Jay]

18 hours ago, KelseyNikki614 said:

They had no problem airing Varner outing Zeke, why not out these racists too?

You can't equate being racist with being trans.  It was abusive for Jeff Varner to out Zeke.  It is not abusive to out a racist.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[LadyChatts]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Yea, it was 100% Joe, who is now in a cult lol.

Well, if they outright name people they're gonna get a lot of people coming at them for calling someone racist so they may not wanna deal with that. This way, they can let the fans themselves suss it out, which is usually quite easy to do, and then they get out exactly who is racist without having to be the one to call them that and take heat for it lol.

Julia probably came the closest to naming the person without naming the person.  Supposedly she follows everyone from her tribe but Joe, too.  

And I agree-I think naming the person who will just deny it and claim slander is actually a bigger headache for both sides than it's worth.  People can usually figure it out.  Look at Jolanda.  She narrowed her claims down to 3 people.  It seemed obvious who it was.  

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

You can't equate being racist with being trans.  It was abusive for Jeff Varner to out Zeke.  It is not abusive to out a racist.

I think Kelseynikki's parallel use of "outing" led you to misinterpret their point. If I'm reading their post correctly, their point was not to equate being racist with being trans, or outing a racist with outing a trans person.

I believe they were equating being racist with being the kind of jackass who thinks it's cool to out a trans person. In other words, if they can show Varner being a POS, why not show Joe or Tarzan or whoever doing the same?

[Ms Blue Jay]

It is not accurate that the show "had no problem" airing Varner outing Zeke.  It was a major problem that required Zeke to grant permission.  I also don't think it is sensitive or sensible to put these two completely different things (Varner outing Zeke, people being racist) as equal things in a sentence together.

Quote

According to The New York Times, between the episode's taping and airing, CBS and the producers of Survivor worked with Smith as well as the advocacy group GLAAD to determine how best to handle the episode.[47] 

I'm for showing the racism on the show, because it is real.  It would be much more real for the show to show what contestants are being racist instead of hiding it.  The show has shown it in the past.  There have been many many instances of racism over the years, some were microaggressions, some were much more explicitly racist.  I hope that the show continues to show it in the future.  

The case with Zeke is different to me because if Zeke did not agree to Varner outing him then I would not agree for it to be aired, either.  If somebody was attacked with a racial slur and the victim of that attack did not want it to be aired then again, I would not agree for it to be aired, either.  However, if the receiver of that slur was fine with airing it then by all means.

It is my opinion though that to act like these are the same thing is not appropriate or useful.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

It is not accurate that the show "had no problem" airing Varner outing Zeke.  It was a major problem that required Zeke to grant permission.  I also don't think it is sensitive or sensible to put these two completely different things (Varner outing Zeke, people being racist) as equal things in a sentence together.

I'm for showing the racism on the show, because it is real.  It would be much more real for the show to show what contestants are being racist instead of hiding it.  The show has shown it in the past.  There have been many many instances of racism over the years, some were microaggressions, some were much more explicitly racist.  I hope that the show continues to show it in the future.  

The case with Zeke is different to me because if Zeke did not agree to Varner outing him then I would not agree for it to be aired, either.  If somebody was attacked with a racial slur and the victim of that attack did not want it to be aired then again, I would not agree for it to be aired, either.  However, if the receiver of that slur was fine with airing it then by all means.

It is my opinion though that to act like these are the same thing is not appropriate or useful.

I don't think the phrase "had no problem" should be taken literally. The point is they did air it - with Zeke's permission, yes, but they were willing to air it rather than hide it. That's how I read "had no problem" in this case.

I really don't think anyone is saying the two situations are equal, or "the same thing", other than that they are both examples of contestants' horrible behavior related to other contestants' identity. So I'm having trouble understanding why you object to the point. You yourself are drawing a comparison between the two situations: you're saying that airing Varner's outing of Zeke should only have been done with Zeke's permission, and airing racists' comments should only be done with the victims' permission.

So maybe I'm being dim here, but I'm just not getting the problem. But it's not your job to make sure I get it, so ignore me if you like.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The original quote was that the show "had no problem" airing Zeke being outed.  I said, there actually was a problem.  Your response is "Don't take it literally".  Ok.

The original quote says, The show did A, so why not B?  I say that I think A and B are very different.  You have an issue with me saying this.  Ok.

I think the show airs racism all of the time.  It would be a fantasy to pretend there hasn't been racism on 40 seasons of Survivor.  There has been a lot of it.  
To be clear, I don't agree with the show hiding people being racist to other players.  And yet, yes, I do think it is an entirely different situation when somebody is being outed as being trans on the show.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The original quote was that the show "had no problem" airing Zeke being outed.  I said, there actually was a problem.  Your response is "Don't take it literally".  Ok.

The original quote says, The show did A, so why not B?  I say that I think A and B are very different.  You have an issue with me saying this.  Ok.

I think the show airs racism all of the time.  It would be a fantasy to pretend there hasn't been racism on 40 seasons of Survivor.  There has been a lot of it.  
To be clear, I don't agree with the show hiding people being racist to other players.  And yet, yes, I do think it is an entirely different situation when somebody is being outed as being trans on the show.

We are clearly working under different interpretations of "no problem". I've explained my interpretation but you're not seeing it. And I don't have an issue with you saying A and B are very different; I was just trying to understand why you are saying they are so different (and yet draw a parallel between them yourself) that it is offensive to compare them even a little bit.

Whatever racism the show has aired is not the kind of direct, in-your-face usage of terms that people like Julia, Sabrina and Jolanda have mentioned. I was under the impression that that was what was under discussion here. I certainly am not pretending there hasn't been racism on 40 seasons, and nothing I've said has indicated that.

But this discussion is going sour, so I yield.

[Ms Blue Jay]

• Jolanda was called the N-word at Ponderosa.  Ponderosa is never aired on the show?
• Sabrina was called a slur to her face.  We have no idea if this was on camera?  If it was on camera and edited it out later, then that's bullshit.  If not.... well?  How can Survivor air it?
• Julia said that the N word was used in a game.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  A game where the cast was discussing movies.  Once again, I have no idea if this was caught on camera, or not.

I never used the word "offensive".

[peachmangosteen]

8 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

• Sabrina was called a slur to her face.  We have no idea if this was on camera?  If it was on camera and edited it out later, then that's bullshit.  If not.... well?  How can Survivor air it?

I think it was filmed. She mentioned that she didn't react to it at the time because she didn't want them to be able to portray her as an 'angry black woman.' She said she took him aside when she knew they weren't being filmed and talked to him about it.

You're right that the Jolanda incident couldn't really be aired because it happened during Ponderosa and that Joe saying the n-word was while singing and they don't show singing on the show. However, with the Joe thing, they could have shown Julia talking about it if they wanted to. Like they could have asked her about it during a confessional and aired that.

IMO it's obvious the show had pretty much always tried to hide/downplay any racism until the Jamal/Jack thing.

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, tracyscott76 said:

In other words, if they can show Varner being a POS, why not show Joe or Tarzan or whoever doing the same?

Tarzan was shown being racist on Survivor.  Bill pointed out that Colton was a racist, which he was, and Tarzan went insane and started yelling that he didn't want anyone to talk about race anymore because Obama was President which meant that racism was over.

6 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

IMO it's obvious the show had pretty much always tried to hide/downplay any racism until the Jamal/Jack thing.

The show is also racist with who they choose to cast and how they edit the show.  I think Survivor has shown a lot of racism over the years, but maybe sometimes it was the kind of racism that the editors themselves don't see or understand.  

My original point was that the Zeke situation is different.  I wasn't saying one is better or worse or whatever, just that I do think that it's different.  I didn't realize that would be so controversial.  Racism isn't just "slurs"; it is a lot beyond that, and the show both participates and shows it often.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The show is also racist with who they choose to cast and how they edit the show. 

Exactly, that is the actual problem and the reason for the petition the players put together.

6 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Tarzan was shown being racist on Survivor.  Bill pointed out that Colton was a racist, which he was, and Tarzan went insane and started yelling that he didn't want anyone to talk about race anymore because Obama was President which meant that racism was over.

You make good points. They have shown a lot of shit. And to think, there's still so much they left on the cutting room floor. And I still believe they have always tried to downplay it in any case.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

• Jolanda was called the N-word at Ponderosa.  Ponderosa is never aired on the show?
• Sabrina was called a slur to her face.  We have no idea if this was on camera?  If it was on camera and edited it out later, then that's bullshit.  If not.... well?  How can Survivor air it?
• Julia said that the N word was used in a game.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  A game where the cast was discussing movies.  Once again, I have no idea if this was caught on camera, or not.

I never used the word "offensive".

Fair enough. You said it wasn't sensitive or appropriate, not that it was offensive. And I said I yielded, but here I am responding again.

But it's only to say I give up. Maybe it's too hot and my brain isn't working, but speculating about whether or not the incidents were filmed doesn't really seem to relate to the specific conversation you and I were having (and obviously they don't air Ponderosa on the show; that was just another example of the kind of behavior under discussion).

[Ms Blue Jay]

38 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

IMO it's obvious the show had pretty much always tried to hide/downplay any racism until the Jamal/Jack thing.

I think it's an interesting thing to highlight , this particular incident.  The show has shown much worse racism than Jack's comment, which was kind of subtle, but I still think Jamal was 100% valid to feel the way that he did, but this one of the few times Survivor actually let the receiver of the racism talk about it so in depth and at length.  I think others, like Bill, tried, but they definitely weren't given the same respect or "space" that Jamal was to really let everything out, speak to Jack, and have a real "show the viewers" moment about it.  Instead, moments like Tarzan's at Tribal Council get glazed over as if it's not really worthy of deeper analysis, and even worse, people like Colton are brought back onto the show!  Colton's second casting and John Rocker's first to me, are perfect examples of the show being totally complicit in racism.  Sometimes I do feel like they WANT these racist encounters to happen; it's pretty much guaranteed when you have people like Colton and John Rocker on the show.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay