All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

In the flash forward opening of the Bartlet presidential library in which this conversation occurs, how much time has passed since C.J. left the White House?

It's at the beginning of Season 7 and it reads, "Three Years Later." Season 6 ended with the Santos nomination, so three years from the convention, would mean approximately two and a half years since C.J. left the White House. Rough estimate. 

[izabella]

Wow, I forgot about Season 1, Ep. 8, "Enemies."  I loathe almost everyone in this episode. 

First, Bartlett, keeps Josh at the WH until the wee hours blathering factoids about national parks because he is lonely without Abby at home.  Then, Bartlett shows up to a Cabinet meeting and is a complete and utter ass to Hoynes for no reason.  Oh, right, we find out it was punishment for Hoynes "making Jed beg" for his support during the primaries.  Yeah, if I were Hoynes, I'd have walked right the fuck out after Jed said that, and never looked back.  "You deserve a VP that you don't want to stab in the face.  Clearly, it ain't me.  Good luck with the next guy!  Stop by for some bbq if you're in town!"   I'm sure the Texas oil industry would have welcomed him home.

Then, Danny, who always irritates me in every way, keeps dropping into CJ's office willy nilly.  He won't tell her much about his scoop that something happened between the POTUS and his VP at the Cabinet meeting, but he keeps telling her he's going public with it.  That leaves CJ to run around trying to fix a mess without having a clue what even happened.  And in the end, they did nothing about a stenographer who leaked the Cabinet meeting information to Danny?!  Like, nothing at all?  Why?

In the meantime, Leo's daughter invites Sam to the opera, and Sam seeks Leo's permission to go out with Mallory (don't get me started on THAT bullshit!).  Leo then deliberately makes Sam stay late to write a birthday card for some random assistant deputy of whatever, which means he'll be late for the opera.  Leo gets Bartlett involved, too, and he makes Sam stay even later to rewrite the birthday message. 

Not that I care about Mallory and Sam going to the opera, but I absolutely despise this kind of game playing, especially when Mallory is given no agency in this and none of them even give her a thought!  Leo and Jed are fucking with Sam, but in the process, they are also fucking with Mallory, and she isn't even there to speak for herself for most of it.  Sam even said later that he had figured out Leo's scheme - well, he certainly didn't tell Mallory about it!  Instead of doing that right away when she showed up, he tried to convince her this birthday message assignment was super important, and told her to wait because he was almost done.  Gaslighting her, AND wasting her time. 

And, of course, there's know-it-all Mandy at every turn trying to convince Josh it is totally ok to accept an amendment to strip mine on federal land site in order to pass their banking bill.  She's so sure she's right, as always, she won't even consider there might be other options, and just treats Josh like he's an idiot for trying to come up with one.  Which he does, in the end.

Ok, glad I got that off my chest. I'm hoping the next episode will be funny, or at least not infuriating.

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by izabella

[izabella]

S1, Ep 9 was much better!  It was "The Short List" about choosing a new Supreme Court nominee, and everyone was firing on all cylinders. 

I liked the premise of this one.  All their campaign ideals and wish lists for a SC Justice during the campaign went out the window for what they thought was a safe choice nominee.  The outgoing Justice called Jed out on that, and kept pushing for Jed to just meet with one of the other judges on the short list, which got Josh's wheels turning...and Jed's. 

Eventually, they discovered their pick had written something decades ago which showed that he did not believe the right to privacy was in the Constitution.  That the framers wrote in specific rights, so therefore any rights not specifically enumerated in the Bill of Rights did not exist.  Sam and Toby argued that the framers didn't want people to think the Bill of Rights excluded other rights that weren't specified, and cited their sources.  Talk about a timely episode!! 

Danny was the only annoyance in this episode, but he always annoys me with how little respect he shows CJ.  Still, it was the goldfish episode, so CJ got a good laugh at his expense.

Edited January 5, 2023 by izabella

[Guest]

16 hours ago, izabella said:

Wow, I forgot about Season 1, Ep. 8, "Enemies."  I loathe almost everyone in this episode. 

First, Bartlett, keeps Josh at the WH until the wee hours blathering factoids about national parks because he is lonely without Abby at home.  Then, Bartlett shows up to a Cabinet meeting and is a complete and utter ass to Hoynes for no reason.  Oh, right, we find out it was punishment for Hoynes "making Jed beg" for his support during the primaries.  Yeah, if I were Hoynes, I'd have walked right the fuck out after Jed said that, and never looked back.  "You deserve a VP that you don't want to stab in the face.  Clearly, it ain't me.  Good luck with the next guy!  Stop by for some bbq if you're in town!"   I'm sure the Texas oil industry would have welcomed him home.

Then, Danny, who always irritates me in every way, keeps dropping into CJ's office willy nilly.  He won't tell her much about his scoop that something happened between the POTUS and his VP at the Cabinet meeting, but he keeps telling her he's going public with it.  That leaves CJ to run around trying to fix a mess without having a clue what even happened.  And in the end, they did nothing about a stenographer who leaked the Cabinet meeting information to Danny?!  Like, nothing at all?  Why?

In the meantime, Leo's daughter invites Sam to the opera, and Sam seeks Leo's permission to go out with Mallory (don't get me started on THAT bullshit!).  Leo then deliberately makes Sam stay late to write a birthday card for some random assistant deputy of whatever, which means he'll be late for the opera.  Leo gets Bartlett involved, too, and he makes Sam stay even later to rewrite the birthday message. 

Not that I care about Mallory and Sam going to the opera, but I absolutely despise this kind of game playing, especially when Mallory is given no agency in this and none of them even give her a thought!  Leo and Jed are fucking with Sam, but in the process, they are also fucking with Mallory, and she isn't even there to speak for herself for most of it.  Sam even said later that he had figured out Leo's scheme - well, he certainly didn't tell Mallory about it!  Instead of doing that right away when she showed up, he tried to convince her this birthday message assignment was super important, and told her to wait because he was almost done.  Gaslighting her, AND wasting her time. 

And, of course, there's know-it-all Mandy at every turn trying to convince Josh it is totally ok to accept an amendment to strip mine on federal land site in order to pass their banking bill.  She's so sure she's right, as always, she won't even consider there might be other options, and just treats Josh like he's an idiot for trying to come up with one.  Which he does, in the end.

Ok, glad I got that off my chest. I'm hoping the next episode will be funny, or at least not infuriating.

 

I like Jed and I think his arrogance makes sense for his character, but man- it does not make him likable at times. Making hard working staffers stay to indulge him (which happened in 1.5 as well!) is wrong. His treatment of Hoynes is wrong. Hoynes was a great side character in the early seasons, I think. I hate Danny’s insistence that the leaker not be punished; it was unreasonable. You can’t be in that room if you can’t be trusted. 

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I like Jed and I think his arrogance makes sense for his character, but man- it does not make him likable at times.

It's a gift that they're irreversibly convinced that he's arrogant 'because now he can be. If your guy's seen that way, you might as well knock some bodies down with it.

[ProudMary]

From "Arctic Radar" S4, Ep. 10:

Will Bailey:  For the record, I was President of Cambridge Union on a Marshall Scholarship and I've written for three Congressional races and a Governor.

Toby Ziegler:  I read the Stanford Club speech. I thought it was good; not as good as other people thought it was. 

Will:  Yeah?

Toby:  Call and response isn't going to work in front of a Joint Session. You're alliteration happy; guardians of gridlock, protectors of privilege. I needed an avalanche of Advil. And when you use pop culture references, your speech has a shelf life of twelve minutes.  You don't mind constructive criticism, do you?

Will:  No sir.

Toby: Anyway, thanks for coming in.

[buttersister]

Quote

I bet Aaron wishes he can erase/redo post season 4. 

Me, too. The HLN marathon drove me to HBO Max and I binged the whole enchilada. (At first, I thought I'd stop at the end of S4, but for some reason--perhaps denial over what came next--I soldiered on.)

Charlie went to Georgetown Law (along with an old pocket-sized Constitution given to him as a lovely parting gift by Jed).

Supremes was the highlight of the post-4 episodes, imo. Convenient story, but low bar.

I never believed CJ as COS. On rewatch, it seemed that oxygen-deprived Leo suggested her because she was quick on her feet, could hold an extraordinary amount of detail in her head and keep it straight, and would be an excellent project manager. The same qualities Mr. Billionaire admired when he offered her $10B to go solve a problem. A strategist and confidante to replace Leo? No. Nope. 

Also in the nope column, Kate Harper. And Will, most of the time. 

Vinick. With a spinoff, so I could have had a weekly date with Alan Alda. 

 

 

[labresq]

Is anybody else thinking about the episode when they got caught studying coastal erosion and got in trouble with the Russians?  Today's Chinese weather balloon incident brought it all back to me.

 

[Guest]

One random scene that always bothers me....

In the Shadow of Two Gunmen, when Margaret and Mrs. Landingham see the news, Mrs. Landingham takes off running.  You would assume she goes to the hospital, but we never see her there. Not sitting in the waiting room with the rest of them, nothing. She just runs off to not be seen in present time for the rest of the episode. Where did she go?  

[Crs97]

I thought we saw her at the hospital holding Donna’s hand.  Is that the next episode?

[Moose135]

She was at the hospital later on, but I assumed when the news broke, she ran back to her desk to start notifying people and doing whatever else she would need to do in such an emergency.

[Crs97]

Continuing In the Shadow of Two Gunmen and my dislike of Donna, her speech when she finally gets to the hospital annoys me (shocking, I know).  When she blathers on about how hard it was to get into the hospital, I wanted Sam or Toby to be sarcastic in telling her how sorry they were that she was having such a bad day.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Crs97 said:

Continuing In the Shadow of Two Gunmen and my dislike of Donna, her speech when she finally gets to the hospital annoys me (shocking, I know).  When she blathers on about how hard it was to get into the hospital, I wanted Sam or Toby to be sarcastic in telling her how sorry they were that she was having such a bad day.

Donna annoys me more with every rewatch, I think.

I can't believe I missed Mrs. L at the hospital even when I looked for it this last watch. Sigh.

[Bastet]

45 minutes ago, deaja said:

Donna annoys me more with every rewatch, I think.

What bugged me from early on was her being included in things no other assistants were.  She's not that special.  The show thinks she is, but she's not.

I'm glad I quit watching before she and Josh got together.  It was really odd, but they were somehow both simultaneously too good for and not good enough for the other.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Bastet

[izabella]

I watched to the end, and saw Josh and Donna get together.  It was anti-climactic, to say the least.  They looked bored with each other, especially Donna, even as they were finally a couple, and the whole thing came off as really dull rather than exciting or satisfying or even real. 

[juno]

30 minutes ago, izabella said:

I watched to the end, and saw Josh and Donna get together.  It was anti-climactic, to say the least.  They looked bored with each other, especially Donna, even as they were finally a couple, and the whole thing came off as really dull rather than exciting or satisfying or even real. 

Just finished it myself. Rather dull is a good description. Instead of a honeymoon phase they acted like an old married couple. Very anti-climatic.

[ProudMary]

Timely.

 

[Guest]

Their whole relationship was so creepy. They both crossed so many lines the whole time they worked together, then she all the sudden decided being an assistant to the second in command of the White House was soooo far beneath her that she was insulted (despite the fact most at that level have masters degrees and she didn’t even finish college). Then she just suddenly knew everything and was perfect at everything despite being incompetent at multiple points during the series.

[juno]

18 minutes ago, deaja said:

Their whole relationship was so creepy. They both crossed so many lines the whole time they worked together, then she all the sudden decided being an assistant to the second in command of the White House was soooo far beneath her that she was insulted (despite the fact most at that level have masters degrees and she didn’t even finish college). Then she just suddenly knew everything and was perfect at everything despite being incompetent at multiple points during the series.

The version of Donna I really enjoyed was the first few seasons where she was humble, a bit awkward, messed up at times but still was tough on Josh and Sam and was good at her job but was more real. You capture perfectly what she became in later seasons. Almost a different person.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, juno said:

The version of Donna I really enjoyed was the first few seasons where she was humble, a bit awkward, messed up at times but still was tough on Josh and Sam and was good at her job but was more real. You capture perfectly what she became in later seasons. Almost a different person.

My sign that I needed a break from TWW on my most recent rewatch was when I decided she got what was coming to her in Gaza for the fit she threw to get sent to Gaza. Compare her reaction to being left off a trip just because she wanted to go with Josh’ reaction to having to miss the China summit over the flag issue… one acted like a professional. The other was Donna.

[Orcinus orca]

The SpaceX explosion being described as "Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly" reminded me of Leo's wonderful line in the West Wing first episode 

"The President, while riding his bicycle on his vacation in Jackson Hole, came to a sudden arboreal stop." Never fails to crack me up.

[Orcinus orca]

Cliff Calley : This is why good people hate us, this, right here, this thing... 

[juno]

7 minutes ago, Orcinus orca said:

Cliff Calley : This is why good people hate us, this, right here, this thing... 

That was an amazing quote. Show was full of many great lines.

[ProudMary]

On 7/9/2022 at 5:46 PM, Bastet said:

M*A*S*H won, but WW was the runner up.  Maybe next year.

 

On 7/9/2022 at 10:04 PM, PeterPirate said:

When next year's nominations roll around, someone needs to pour Wheatena on Proud Mary's keyboard.  

 

On 7/9/2022 at 10:39 PM, ProudMary said:

I solemnly swear NOT to nominate any show but The West Wing for G.O.A.T. next year! 

The Primetimer Awards are in the nominations phase until June 8th. There is a G.O.A.T. category. When I first got there, someone had already nominated The West Wing. (I'm hoping it was one of our regular posters here. 🙂) I just want everyone to know that I quickly removed myself from that thread! If TWW doesn't make it this time, I had nothing to do with it! 😄

The category has reached the maximum number of 50 nominations and is now closed. If you're interested is seeing all the nominees, here's the link to the category:  https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/139233-golden-oldie-favorite-off-air-show-of-all-time/#comment-8024454

Just my opinion, but I think there are at most, 10 shows that could be considered Hall of Fame worthy. Some of the nominees are 🙄.

First round voting begins on June 12th. In the initial round, votes can be cast for multiple shows. I am voting ONLY for The West Wing. 😇

 

 

[Bastet]

26 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

When I first got there, someone had already nominated The West Wing. (I'm hoping it was one of our regular posters here. 🙂)

It was on my list, but someone had already nominated it by the time I got there (I didn't notice the announcement until the second day).

[Guest]

I nominated it at the exact time as someone else so momentarily there were consecutive posts nominating it. That’s got to be a good sign. ;)

[jah1986]

I totally nominated it and hope it makes it this year.

[ProudMary]

From "Somebody's Going To Emergency, Somebody's Going to Jail" Season 2, Episode 16.

(I was unable to find a video clip for the first scene, hence just the dialog. There's video for the second scene.)

In the White House Situation Room, Nancy McNally presents Sam with a very thick file, the cover of which indicates highly confidential blue markings.
Sam: That's not an FBI file.
Nancy: It's an NSA file.
Sam: Nancy, I'm classified but I don't have code word clearance.
Nancy: I know.
Sam: I'm saying I'm not allowed to see that and you could get in trouble for showing it to me.
Nancy: I could go to jail for showing it to you, which obviously I'm not going to do. I have blocked out any lateral reference that is code word classified. These are the only things I've blacked out and they are in no way relevant to your question.
Look at me. Do you believe me?
Sam: Of course.
Nancy: Go ahead.

 

[Orcinus orca]

Treason. 

A very powerful scene.

[ProudMary]

Here we go...

It's time to get out the vote! The first voting round of the Primetimer Awards, which will reduce the nominees from 50 to 5, is now live. I'm voting only for The West Wing. Let's get this done! Here's the direct link to the category:

Golden Oldie: Favorite Off-Air Show Of All Time

[Orcinus orca]

11 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

It's time to get out the vote!

Done!

[schnauzergirl]

Done

 

[Guest]

 

 

[juno]

[TV Diva Queen]

On 1/3/2023 at 12:25 PM, ProudMary said:

I'm glad HLN aired this holiday West Wing marathon because it's created so much new activity in this forum!

Some random comments:

Season 6 was pretty much a disaster IMO, until Josh left the White House to run the Santos' campaign. From that point on, I've looked at 6/7 as a pretty good West Wing spinoff with Josh as the main character and a healthy dose of a few of the other WW  characters (Donna, Will, Leo.) I enjoyed the campaign(s), but then I've alwas been a fan of both Jimmy Smits and of Alan Alda. Everything that was happening at the lame duck White House was boring to me. I was not a fan of the Kate Harper character and never really bought into CJ as COS. 

I didn't care for the Annabeth character either, but I generally find Kristin Chenowith annoying. (I know most people love her and I'm in the minority with this opinion.) "The Hubbert Peak" episode got me wondering. 🤔 It was one of the early appearances of the Annabeth character and also included a good-sized role for an actress I really like, Rachael Harris. I wonder if she had auditioned for the Annabeth role and instead was given the one-shot as a consolation prize. I would have liked the Annabeth role much better if Harris was acting it. JMO, of course.

One small item on the series finale that bugged me: Following the inauguration, when President and Mrs. Santos are walking out of the Capitol Building to bid farewell to the Bartlets and we have a nicely written exchange between the incoming and outgoing Presidents, Ron Butterfield is standing there and President Bartlet just silently gets into the limo. No final words to the man who's headed up POTUS's security detail for the previous eight years??? It just seemed weird to me on re-watch. Butterfield was already heading up Santos' detail during the transition, so I'll have to assume he and the President had parting words offscreen when he moved over to Santos, but a few onscreen words on the Capitol steps for the audience would have killed the writers?

Sorry to quote you 5 months later but I just finished this again last night and me and my 22yo daughter both commented on how Barlett didn't say saying to Ron.  We said "well, Bartlett is now able to show Ron how pissed he was at Ron losing Zoey".  

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

No final words to the man who's headed up POTUS's security detail for the previous eight years???

I had given up on the show about halfway through the first season without Sorkin, but I came back for the last few episodes and wondered if there had been some fallout I had missed.  They blew it there.

Another missed opportunity (mostly because Sam was always my favorite character) was when Bartlett commiserated with Santos about Kennedy screwing up the curve for inaugural addresses, but said Santos got some good lines in.  I would have liked Bartlett to add, “Sam?” and have Santos nod.  I thought it would have been a nice callback to Sam’s ability as a speech writer.

[TV Diva Queen]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I had given up on the show about halfway through the first season without Sorkin, but I came back for the last few episodes and wondered if there had been some fallout I had missed.  They blew it there.

Another missed opportunity (mostly because Sam was always my favorite character) was when Bartlett commiserated with Santos about Kennedy screwing up the curve for inaugural addresses, but said Santos got some good lines in.  I would have liked Bartlett to add, “Sam?” and have Santos nod.  I thought it would have been a nice callback to Sam’s ability as a speech writer.

I thought the same thing about Sam!!

I would have liked to see Toby on Inauguration day too, like when he got word that he was pardoned.  (also, my max app shut down with three minutes left in the show and I didn't fell like fussing w it, so maybe they did show Toby and I didn't see it)

[Orcinus orca]

We made it to the final five - vote for WW here!

[juno]

38 minutes ago, Orcinus orca said:

We made it to the final five - vote for WW here!

[ProudMary]

Here's the direct link to the category:

Golden Oldie: Favorite Off-Air Show of All Time

 

[Guest]

If you haven’t voted yet…..

 

 

[txhorns79]

Watching Two Cathedrals, I now find it very odd that Mrs. Landingham is having a teenager go advocate to his father for the women on the faculty and staff at the school to get equal pay.  It feels really inappropriate on her part to put Jeb in that position.  I know she mentions that she's functioning as a "big sister" for him, but she isn't his sister, she's his father's secretary and an adult woman.  I didn't really think about it before, but it bothers me now.          

[ProudMary]

Actor Paxton Whitehead passed away on June 16th at the age of 85. He appeared quite memorably in two West Wing episodes as the snooty Bernard. 😢

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

Actor Paxton Whitehead passed away on June 16th at the age of 85. He appeared quite memorably in two West Wing episodes as the snooty Bernard. 😢

That was the first thing I thought of when reading about his death, so I posted this in the In Memoriam thread:

So many funny lines in so few minutes!

[Orcinus orca]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

So many funny lines in so few minutes!

And impeccably delivered.  I can't even put anyone else in that role and have those lines delivered so well.

[Bastet]

On 6/19/2023 at 5:22 PM, Orcinus orca said:

We made it to the final five - vote for WW here!

It won.

(I voted for The X-Files, which came in as the runner up, as I liked more seasons of that than I did this, but I'm very happy it won; when it was great, it truly was one of the best shows in all of television.)

[ProudMary]

Well done to all who voted! 👏

 

[bluegirl147]

It's about time.

[Guest]

[txhorns79]

I forgot just how awful Sam is with Laurie.  His barging into her date while she was working and humiliating her is really just unforgivable.  I just want to be like: "Sam, if you don't like her being a prostitute, just leave her alone."  Acting like this adult woman needs you to save her is just condescending.  And of course, because it's Sorkin, she goes from being upset and angry to being charmed by Sam.