S06.E02: Abby vs. Melissa

[RedFire2000]

The mothers are shocked to learn that Abby is forming a new team; News breaks that Abby could be facing jail time; When Mackenzie receives the brunt of Abby's rage, Melissa vows not to play nice anymore.

 

 

[KaveDweller]

The mothers are shocked to learn that Abby is forming a new team;

 

The mothers are shocked Abby does something she's done like three times by now? They really are getting dumber.

[Rebecca]

That's just lovely that she projects her rage about her legal matters onto her student. I wouldn't expect any less from this beast. I wonder if Melissa will actually do something or if she'll just have a little "tough talk" and no action like always. She would gain a modicum of my respect if she did tell Abby off finally.

[iluvobx]

Recycling the scripts.

Can not believe this train wreck is still on.  It should have been dropped, especially when Abby was charged and was insinuated that production had a hand in helping to hide the money.

 

edit to correct word from insulated to insinuated

Edited January 15, 2016 by iluvobx

[Ljohnson1987]

Can't believe that Melissa is still subjecting her kids to this. Along with the other mothers. They must really care more about fame, than their children's well being.

[KaveDweller]

I feel like it's kind of sad that Jill and Kendall's goal seems to be the number 2 girl to Maddie's number 1.  Why not aim to surpass her? Also, her crying over having to wear ugly make up was obnoxious.

 

I felt bad for Mackenzie having to do a dance that looked like it was designed for a six-year-old.  Abby may be right that she's not technical as good as she should be, but pigtails and jumping on a bed/couch?

 

And did Melissa imply that she's some sort of accomplice to Abby's tax/money fraud? Cause it's rather dumb to do that when you're on a TV show, whether it's true or not.

[RedFire2000]

I feel like it's kind of sad that Jill and Kendall's goal seems to be the number 2 girl to Maddie's number 1.  Why not aim to surpass her? Also, her crying over having to wear ugly make up was obnoxious.

Ugh, Kendall's such a crybaby. Her crying over the makeup was ridiculous. Too old to be crying about stupid silly stuff like that. You're 13 years old not a 5 year old.

[leighroda]

I feel like it's kind of sad that Jill and Kendall's goal seems to be the number 2 girl to Maddie's number 1. Why not aim to surpass her? Also, her crying over having to wear ugly make up was obnoxious.

I felt bad for Mackenzie having to do a dance that looked like it was designed for a six-year-old. Abby may be right that she's not technical as good as she should be, but pigtails and jumping on a bed/couch?

And did Melissa imply that she's some sort of accomplice to Abby's tax/money fraud? Cause it's rather dumb to do that when you're on a TV show, whether it's true or not.

I know! She essentially sold Abby up the river because that makes her sound really guilty... Isn't the show what got her caught to begin with? Normally I would say "eh, it's not like the judge is a dance moms fan" but someone seeing dance moms after she filed for bankruptcy was what tipped them off to investigate if I remember correctly.

Now, can someone explain this to me... It has been widely reported that Abby took issue with production wanting there to be a dance about teen pregnancy. Abby has also been quite vocal criticizing that Nia sold out her image in her music video... But she thinks that choreographing twerking into a routine is ok!? Good for Nia not crossing that line.

Ok, so I have a slight issue with Holly... One of her biggest complaints since day one has been the typecasting of Nia. Now I think it's great that she has been able to portray some strong black women like Rosa Parks, and Maya Angelou, those have been some of her best dances. But I find it a little odd that Holly had no issue with this cookie dance. I have never seen Empire, I know absolutely nothing about that character, what strikes me as odd is that Laqueefa was the only black character I recall Holly taking issue with (I could be wrong I don't remember), so was her issue typecasting Nia as an African American character, or because it was a drag queen? I'm starting suspect it was more the latter but to remain pc Holly used the African American typecasting as a scapegoat, but ymmv.

Last point, how ridiculous is Jill! Omg, she dropped Melissa so fast when there was a slight opening as Abby's bff. But it's so pathetic that she is basking in the glow of Abby's heart, does she really not see that Abby is just using Kendall to make Melissa jealous? It's really kinda sad to watch.

[RCharter]

I know! She essentially sold Abby up the river because that makes her sound really guilty... Isn't the show what got her caught to begin with? Normally I would say "eh, it's not like the judge is a dance moms fan" but someone seeing dance moms after she filed for bankruptcy was what tipped them off to investigate if I remember correctly.

Now, can someone explain this to me... It has been widely reported that Abby took issue with production wanting there to be a dance about teen pregnancy. Abby has also been quite vocal criticizing that Nia sold out her image in her music video... But she thinks that choreographing twerking into a routine is ok!? Good for Nia not crossing that line.

Ok, so I have a slight issue with Holly... One of her biggest complaints since day one has been the typecasting of Nia. Now I think it's great that she has been able to portray some strong black women like Rosa Parks, and Maya Angelou, those have been some of her best dances. But I find it a little odd that Holly had no issue with this cookie dance. I have never seen Empire, I know absolutely nothing about that character, what strikes me as odd is that Laqueefa was the only black character I recall Holly taking issue with (I could be wrong I don't remember), so was her issue typecasting Nia as an African American character, or because it was a drag queen? I'm starting suspect it was more the latter but to remain pc Holly used the African American typecasting as a scapegoat, but ymmv.

Last point, how ridiculous is Jill! Omg, she dropped Melissa so fast when there was a slight opening as Abby's bff. But it's so pathetic that she is basking in the glow of Abby's heart, does she really not see that Abby is just using Kendall to make Melissa jealous? It's really kinda sad to watch.

The judge doesn't have to be a fan.  The judge's wife, the judge's clerk, the clerks wife, the stenographer, the stenographers wife.

 

Abby can lose me with her pearl clutching on any level.  She is the one that put those kids in prosti-tots outfits when they were much, much younger.  Little girls dressed up like burlesque dancers from the Moulin Rouge, yet Nia puts on some makeup and suddenly she should be branded with the scarlet A.  And as far as I could tell, Kendall was wearing less clothing her in video...the one that Abby was in charge of, so......

[tessa]

My thoughts - good god that pancake make-up on Melissa was thick and I could still see her bad skin and wrinkles.

 

Mac is not Maddie - each kid has different strengths and weaknesses. Each will progress differently - but when there actually has been no teaching in at least the last 3 years - it's hard to progress. That said - the dance was too young and there was too much thrown in for me to enjoy it. Her picking on Mac to me is another scripted episode from production as Mac's popularity went downhill after the release of the video from the Ireland tour and many thought she was full of herself on the Girls Talk episode.

 

Nia should have gotten the solo for next week - she placed 2nd over a third place from Kendall. If Abby were going to use #'s - Nia could have placed 1st with that exact score and Kendall's 3rd place would have still beaten her.

 

Actually - once hearing the song - Kendall's face make - up didn't make sense - she looked more like a monster than a beautifully aged woman - but again - nothing to get up set about. The only 1 who could be the next Maddie is Brynn - Kendall doesn't even come into play as I'm sorry she offers nothing. She's cute but her dancing is nothing special, she's arrogant like her mom and she has the personality of a dishrag. Jojo stands out because of her personality - like Nia - Kalani stands out due to her prettiness and pleasant personality. I look at Brynn and she dances beautifully - like Maddie - but I hope she has some sort of personality to distinguish her from the others.

 

I thought the group dance was great but again - repeated moves - Kendall's leg extension - Kalani's turn - Mac's flips - and if Maddie was there - her turns and Maddie face. They are all repeated in every dance it seems. Nia's dance was underwhelming - Kendall's forgettable and Mac's too busy.

[DoctorWhovian]

Abby: da' Nile ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

Also props to Mac for speaking up regarding the "youngness" of her dance 

Edited January 13, 2016 by DoctorWhovian

[RazzleberryPie]

Holly disappoints me the most. I understand her frustration with Abby, but Holly clutches her pearls and then sits back and let's Abby continue with the Tootie comments, Laqueefa, dogs, rants about terrible feet, trying to degrade Holly's education and job as an educator, etc.

I hate to agree with Abby but this new image nia is being branded with might be fun, but it's just so.....not Nia. I see her as a clean cut Disney girl, not some pseudo urban sex kitten. It's weird and she's too young for that styling. And no, Jill isn't any better for Kendall's sexier image now, either.

[leighroda]

Mack is quickly becoming my least favorite... While I dont really have any issue with anything she said last night, and if Abby does, she can have a seat because she created the monster in my opinion, with a little help from Melissa. I don't blame Mackenzie for talking back last night, because in the past she is one of the few people who had ever been able to talk back to Abby and be heard, there have been times where Mackenzie has made a critical remark about a dance (like with the spice girls dance last season) and I hold my breath because I thought she was gonna get it, only for Abby to be like..."ok". So if Abby thinks she is disrespectful now, it's partially because Abby let her be (in my opinion). My reasons for disliking her are more related to the fact that she has seemed to become kinda snotty, she seems to think her shit doesn't stink, and she has somewhat of a mean girl attitude. I don't necessarily blame her, she's a product of her environment, but I don't like it.

I find it annoying that Abby wants to constantly compare her to Maddie. A) even if they had identical training, they are different people, like stated above, with different strengths and weaknesses. B) they haven't had what I would even say is comparable training. Maddie was 9-10 when dance moms started, meaning up until that point she had more proper training out of the spotlight, more actual dance classes under her belt etc. Mackenzie was 6 when the show started, most would agree that once the show started and gained popularity proper dance training kinda went out the window. So no, I wouldn't expect Mackenzie to be at Maddies level when she was the same age, she doesn't have the training Maddie had. Even if they had identical training, there is nothing wrong with Mackenzie having different strengths.

[cali1981]

Good God, where to even begin.  Did it ever occur to Jill, America's Village Idiot, that perhaps Abby has been told by her lawyers not to discuss her indictments with anyone privately, let alone on national television? The stereotyping of Nia has been shameless but at least as leighroda said it's largely involved admirable role models.  But Cookie Lyons from Empire?  Whoa!  Taraji P. Henson is brilliant in the role but her character is hardly someone that a teenager should be emulating and yet Hollie sits on her hands.  As far as Kendall goes, I feel sorry for this kid. Her talent is marginal at best but she is being shoved into faux "stardom" by her own horror show version of Mama Rose (and Jill is looking more and more like Ethel Merman in her later years). It's very sad.  And last and always least: hey gang, Melissa has discovered that she actually has another daughter.  I thought for the longest time that Mac was the result of an immaculate conception but it looks like she did sprout from Melissa after all.  One can only laugh at the supreme irony of Melissa now going to the mat for Mac when prior to this she routinely threw her under the bus in favor of Maddie, the perfect snowflake child.  Give me a freaking break.  I chuckled at Melissa's "I know a  lot of things" threat.  I wonder if knowing things and being complicit in them are one in the same?  Anyone want to take bets on when the federal prosecutors will be having a chat with Melissa?

Edited January 13, 2016 by cali1981

[RalyWilmy]

My thoughts - good god that pancake make-up on Melissa was thick and I could still see her bad skin and wrinkles.

 

God, yes!  Although to be fair, widescreen HD doesn't do most of them any favors.  Jill is another one.  And I say this as someone who wouldn't look great on widescreen HD either ;)

 

Sorry, Melissa, too little too late.  I happen to be one of those people who believe that this show is 90% scripted.  However, whether real or written, her blatant favoritism of Maddie has been glaring for the entire run of this show.  The only reason she's standing up for Mackenzie now is because Maddie isn't there.  If Maddie were there, Mackenzie would still be "whats-her-name".  I have two daughters who are both pretty serious dancers.  I could never, ever, ever place more importance on one than the other.  Ever.  Not even if it was scripted.  Not enough $$ in the world.  Melissa goes from not saying a peep about the way Mackenzie is treated to full-on fishwife mode.  I'm not buying it.  I'm not crazy about anyone on this show (or myself for continuing to watch it) but I really can't stand Melissa.  She's worse than Abby, in my opinion.

[cali1981]

Melissa goes from not saying a peep about the way Mackenzie is treated to full-on fishwife mode.  I'm not buying it.  I'm not crazy about anyone on this show (or myself for continuing to watch it) but I really can't stand Melissa.  She's worse than Abby, in my opinion.

"Full-on fishwife mode".  Hah, great line!

[Absolom]

Ratings: 1.262 M viewers and a .46 rating.

[Odelia]

It frustrates me to watch Kenzie dance in the sense that I feel if she were enrolled in gymnastics or acrobatics, she'd be amazing, national level. Whereas in dance, she's good but Abby is right.. she's no Maddie. And it bothers her that she gets these comparisons all the time. So it would be nice if she had her own sport.

I'm also bothered how bratty she has become, in that "No Moms" special, she was very rude to Maddie.

 

Kendall - seriously, crying over costume makeup?

Nia - Wish she'd get a cool hiphop routine, she'd shine in a different style of dance. Holly and Nia seem much more tolerable than in season 5.

[NextIteration]

Does anyone else have Xfinity/Comcast?  My DVR served up two copies of last week's episode and none of this week's, did anyone else have that happen?

 

eta: watched online.  The busted weaves, the fake nails (that look fake) and the excessive makeup - the only ones that look normal anymore are Jess (for Jess) and Holly.  The drama is old and tired.

 

The dances - solos.  Nia's solo had zero content for a teen jazz and from what I could tell (I thought I could see where it went in the choreo), the 3 seconds of twerk might have actually helped it, this is Cookie we are talking about.  The costume didn't fit the dance or character at all either, the point differential could have reflected both the lack of difficulty in the choreography and the lame choreography itself.  Kendall was given a gift with that choreography and professional make up job and what did she do?  She whined and cried about it.  Abby was right and it was a great idea to give her that make up job, because an upset Kendall might have performed more of what the piece needed.  Instead?  She went out there and gave no face at all, just the pretty smile.  Mackenzie, once again the stupid cartwheels in a circle and pigtails.  She didn't stand a chance as a Junior with that choreography but came within tenths of a point of Kendall.

 

Group dance - they did not give the proper face for that dance at all, and they needed eyeliner in their makeup.  Their eyes just disappeared which exacerbated the problem, you can't give face to the judges without eyes.  They come in second, makes me curious what the point deduction was for the slip (which could have been for the slip itself, and for the costuming that caused it).

 

I'm looking forward to seeing some Minis!

Edited January 14, 2016 by NextIteration

[MNDancemom]

I think the show kind of had to change the scope of Melissa, now that Maddie is gone doing her other projects. I am sure Melissa signed a contract, and is legally obligated to be on the show. Otherwise you know she would be on location with Maddie. And I agree, they need to do damage control with Mackenzie, after the unflattering Meet and Greet behavior. So it's best to make her the underdog this time around. That way we will feel sorry for her.

 

I still can't believe Nia is even back this season. Not due to her dancing ability, but because of all the drama from last season.

 

Who fell during the group dance? I totally missed that.

 

I also think that the teacher/mom from the competing dance school looks like Kate Gosselin. And there is another mom from that school that I think looks like a tranny, the one with the tattooed on choker.

 

Sorry if this has been repeated, this is my first post.

 

I thought all the solo's were super basic, there was not a large degree of difficulty to any of them, nor did I see anything new or unique.

 

 

[RCharter]

Wow - if you had told me a year ago that Jessalyn would be the most level headed and most likable Dance Mom I would have called you crazy. But to me, she is the best out of all of them. Almost everything that comes out of her mouth makes sense, and even if its shady, its done so lightly that she gets away with it.

I have no idea why Kendall didn't suffer Abby's wrath, unless it really is all about punishing Melissa. Or unless she has serious self-esteem issues, in which case, Jill is terrible for putting her on this show where people will constantly dissect her looks. But, other than that, she had no business crying over that makeup because it was the only way that song made any sense. Although if she had that pasted on smile with that old makeup it will would have looked funny.

Nia's dance was sad, because as usual, it was sort of the forgotten dance. I'm glad she refused to twerk....I don't think Cookie would twerk either. Abby is like one of those people who watched a YouTube video with black girls twerking and now thinks that its something EVERYONE in the black community does or identifies with. That black judge on the end was already giving Nia side eye with that routine and if she had twerked I suspect it would have been 10x worse. I like the idea of Cookie as an inspiration for a dance, because she is a strong female character who turned pain into triumph. But I think that strength comes with time and age, so its a lot to ask from a 14 year old girl.

Abby was really going in for ol' MacZ and it was not pretty. Especially because I don't think the girl was saying anything to Abby with an attitude. I think she was honestly trying to tell Abby that she thought the routine was named after the quote she had on the show that everyone remembers. The one that Abby got wrong.

Abby is likely losing her marbles and its fascinating and sad. Under what theory would the mothers be in jail, unless she is talking about Melissa helping her to do something shady with her money. Its good to see that she is keeping AquaNet in business though.

I think the show kind of had to change the scope of Melissa, now that Maddie is gone doing her other projects. I am sure Melissa signed a contract, and is legally obligated to be on the show. Otherwise you know she would be on location with Maddie. And I agree, they need to do damage control with Mackenzie, after the unflattering Meet and Greet behavior. So it's best to make her the underdog this time around. That way we will feel sorry for her.

 

I still can't believe Nia is even back this season. Not due to her dancing ability, but because of all the drama from last season.

 

Who fell during the group dance? I totally missed that.

 

I also think that the teacher/mom from the competing dance school looks like Kate Gosselin. And there is another mom from that school that I think looks like a tranny, the one with the tattooed on choker.

 

Sorry if this has been repeated, this is my first post.

 

I thought all the solo's were super basic, there was not a large degree of difficulty to any of them, nor did I see anything new or unique.

Kendall fell -- and again, it was a surprise that she didn't feel Abby's wrath for that, especially after refusing to wear makeup and coming in 3rd. I'm fine with Abby not being mean to a child, but when she talks about how she treats everyone fair, she clearly doesn't.

I've thought the exact same thing about the mother from the other dance company looking like a tranny. And not a good one either...just like a dude in a dress. But, she seems like a very nice woman.

I thought the group dance was really good in this episode. It didn't look pulled from Abby's usual bag of tricks so maybe she let Gia choreograph this time.

[NextIteration]

Wow - if you had told me a year ago that Jessalyn would be the most level headed and most likable Dance Mom I would have called you crazy. But to me, she is the best out of all of them. Almost everything that comes out of her mouth makes sense, and even if its shady, its done so lightly that she gets away with it.

 

I've been thinking this from her first couple appearances on Dance Moms.  I expected the caricature that we got on AUDC, but she is so much more genuine seeming on DM.  Maybe it's just another act, but it doesn't seem like it.  She's just so much more sensible and less smack talk.  And JoJo is so damn earnest most times anymore, no real smack talk like on AUDC either.

[WhosThatGirl]

Being honest, I hardly pay attention to this show anymore, it's on in the background while I'm doing other things and ever since Chloe left, I don't have a favorite. To me, I always find myself watching and feeling sick that the moms put their kids through this; but then I remember that the Moms are probably locked in via contacts and have to do this. 

[Bossca]

Apparently Kendall was crying due to an allergic reaction to the old lady makeup. There's a photo on Abby's instagram saying that and Kendall with a red, peeling fact. Also if you look at Kendall's skin around the edge of the makeup on the ep, it was a painful, red/purple colour.

[Absolom]

Even on the show you could see the reaction on her face. 

[leighroda]

Ahhhh that makes a lot more sense. I wasn't actively watching so I didn't notice a reaction, but I thought it was REALLY strange that Abby wasn't livid about Kendall not wanting the make up, especially because she cried and that is a huge red button issue for Abby, she gets so mad when Kendall cries. I had just chocked it up to the Mackenzie story line since Abby had been treating Kendall differently to get a rise out of Melissa/Mackenzie... I thought it was just the extreme, but I still found it odd since Abby is normally so adement about props/costumes/make up, I figured she would pull it before she would let Kendall perform it without the make up Abby wanted.

[MNDancemom]

I thought it was nice for Jessalynn to try to make Kendall feel better.

 

That explains Kendall's bright red face. It looked painful.

 

I feel like there was no dancing in Mackenzie's dance. Lots of acro. I guess I don't know how acro is judged at a dance comp. But you would think there would need to be some dancing in it, otherwise it should be competed at a gymnastics meet.

 

I didn't think Mackenzie was giving attitude either. Just stating a fact. I feel bad she has to take the brunt of Abby's anger. But I also enjoy when Melissa gets all wigged out and twitchy.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don't think Mack was being rude; when the camera was not doing close-ups of the dance, it did look like a dance she could have done when she was little. 

[NextIteration]

I guess I don't know how acro is judged at a dance comp.

If your screen name is indicative of your area, we don't have many (or any) acro entries in our area generally, never have.

[leighroda]

I thought it was nice for Jessalynn to try to make Kendall feel better.

That explains Kendall's bright red face. It looked painful.

I feel like there was no dancing in Mackenzie's dance. Lots of acro. I guess I don't know how acro is judged at a dance comp. But you would think there would need to be some dancing in it, otherwise it should be competed at a gymnastics meet.

I didn't think Mackenzie was giving attitude either. Just stating a fact. I feel bad she has to take the brunt of Abby's anger. But I also enjoy when Melissa gets all wigged out and twitchy.

I was in dance many moons ago... When I danced acro wasn't really a thing, you would have the rogue aerial in a few solos but that was pretty much it. My understanding about acro is that it's kinda an iffy area as far as judging is concerned... Much like tap, some love it some hate it.

I'm from Texas, where the high kick is a big deal, and kick had its own catagory in competition... So I'm going to apply what I know about that and guess that it probably closely resembles how judging acro would be. For a dance to be in the high kick catagory at least 80-90% of the dance had to be doing kicks (which is really hard if you are unfamiliar, on my team you had to "kick your hat" meaning your leg literally touches your face... There were a few broken noses due to this) anyway back to my point. You couldn't really do too much kicking, there was a minimum amount, but no max... But it would be important to note that if you did it 100% of the time you wouldn't lose points in that catagory, but you would lose points for presentation or artistry. So, if the same is true for acro, she could literally do all tricks, with minimal dancing transitions... But she may not score as high if a judge isn't a fan of acro because like you were saying they may feel it lacked dancing (which in top of it being an immature dance, could explain her score).

[NextIteration]

I feel like the only really good acro on Dance Moms was Brook's, the really Cirque heavy stylings.  I wonder what is different about Mack's flexibility that Abby hasn't taken her pieces in that directions.  But it could be what she was critiquing her for about her very straight lengthened legs and pretty feet.

[leighroda]

That's a good point, that would be the most logical next step for Mackenzie that would get her out of Maddies shadow, I think it's been said that acro is actually Maddies weak point.

Personally I don't think at this point she is in a place to do the more cique styled acro because a) Abby still see her and treats her like a child b) Brooke had a more mature, graceful style, she did each move and held it to complete it, with Mackenzie she seems to rush through each move, I'm not sure if it's because she is simply unable to hold the positions, or if she is rushing to finish one trick to move to the next, but that is not to say she can't work in that direction... But I think Abby is too busy trying to make her a triple threat to focus on one aspect and truly master it. C) it seems like Brooke excelled more in the lyrical/contemporary style, which goes along with my second point I guess, but those styles lend themselves more so to incorporating cirque styled acro, while Mackenzie does better with fast paced jazz type dances... But I think in a way that's a disservice because I think that allows her to be choppy with her tricks and not truly finish them. I think she could potentially improve with some work, but I don't know if she wants to or is willing to put in some time