Unpopular Opinions: Total Crackpot Thread

[PeterPirate]

I've never heard that described as a cliffhanger before (but I wasn't terribly involved with any online commentary regarding WW at the time it aired; just obsessively discussing it among my friends and co-workers who also watched).  I think it's a nice way of showing the audience he's decided to run again; I still remember getting a nice little shiver when Leo said, "Watch this," and then Bartlet put his hands in his pockets. 

 

You are right, I should have used quotation marks (a la "cliffhanger") like I did in my previous post.  I realize that Mr Sorkin was using the hands-in-pocket thing as a way of giving a non-verbal answer to the question. I just didn't like it. 

 

I will add, however, that in the commentary to one episode, Sorkin himself uses the word "cliffhanger" to describe the ending to Two Cathedrals.  

[alexvillage]

After all these years I decided to re-watch the show. I am surprised to noticed how some of my impressions haven't changed at all, while others have gone the opposite way.

What is the same:

Donna: still hate her. Hate the actress, hate the Josh/Donna shoved down my throat since I can't see a drop of chemistry between the actors (romantically) 

Danny/CJ: hated the pairing, dislike Danny a lot

The supporting cast/assistants (Ginger, Bonnie, Carol): Still love them

Charlie: still find him very arrogant (liked him in the first couple of seasons). Disrespectful even

Ainsley: still ugh!

Still like the pace of dialogues and how Sorkin uses words, language. 

Some themes are still very current, which is disturbing (like money and elections, how super pacs were a dangerous thing and now so mainstream)

The first minutes of the first episode, season 2 still give me goose bumps (GW, go, go go!)

 

What changed just a little:

Sorkin: I find myself even more annoyed by his sexism. I don't call him misogynist because I think he is really clueless and he thinks women are supposed to be "cute", even if sometimes they are smart, but mostly "cute". But the way her writes women is UGH! Women without pants during interviews, Women not knowing anything, women as comic relief, women going into closets because they are so whatever...

Sam: even more endearing, except when he is being a jerk. 

Toby: crankier

Leo: bossy and not very ethical

 

What changed a lot:

Josh: my favorite years ago, now I can't stand him, don't find him funny, hated the Christmas episode

Hoynes: I find myself rooting for him

Bartlett: don't like him too much anymore. Maybe because Obama is so much cooler.

 

It is just a show but some of the things that happen there, like the press walking around as if it is allowed annoys me. Since the show ended I have friends working in the White House and it is nothing like that. What annoys me is that I cannot suspend disbelief anymore, it is way too far from anything resembling reality on things that I pay attention too (and I am full of peeves, I admit)

Or I am just older and crankier. 

[twinkietwin94]

when Josh/Donna finally happens I liked it but I loathed the seven years of build up to it, it was annoying.

CJ/Danny was cute at first but again went on with the build up too long and wasn't worth the pay off.

Josh and Amy blergh, while I think she was a good intelligent foil for him it just didn't work for me

I hated the Shareef storyline but I did like the CJ/Simon line

Ainsley gets on my nerves within an episode or two

Much as I love Matthew Perry him coming on only to reveal the Hoynes affair annoys me, first day luck or something and the character is just gone

the less said about Christian Slater's character the better

I never could decide how I felt other than shocked when CJ was chosen as CoS

I wasn't a Santos fan, much more a Vinick fan but count me on the Alan Alda love train (just one reason I own the entire M*A*S*H series on DVD) so that probably colors my feelings.

 

rewatching now, midway through season 2, sure more things will come to me as I watch

[hiccup]

Reading through this thread, a couple of my opinions don't seem to be unpopular, but I will add them anyway...

1.  I really disliked Amy Gardner.  It might have a little to do with the fact that I'm not really a fan of Mary Louise Parker either.

2.  HATED that C.J. became Chief of Staff.

3.  HATED the leak storyline with Toby.  

4.  I really disliked how Leo was written after his first heart attack.  And I also didn't like his assistant, Annabeth, when he was the VP running mate.  

However, this is still my all time favorite show and I still watch most of the series at least once a year.

[DebbieW]

I liked CJ as CoS, but I hated how Abby basically treated it as a babysitting position for the President.

[alexvillage]

I am reading this whole thread and this comes late but:

Toby's babies were via IVF. Andy had the embryos frozen and decided to implant them - without talking to Toby before she did

Some rant, maybe not unpopular:

Zoe's birthday party with magicians and burning flag - how old was she? season 1 she was 19, then she was in college and applied when she was 17, so she was around 24 -26. Magicians party? Really? And everyone referring to it as a "kid's party" made me want to vomit.

Josh and Donna finally have sex! Yay! Only that the whole thing was so badly written and badly performed. After all the years they had been such "great friends" (Josh ending up drunk in her apartment, Donna being her PCA when he is recovering from the shooting) they know everything about each other and then, when they have sex they feel awkward? Two adults, in their 30's and 40's, feeling awkward after sex means they are not sexually compatible. That should have put an end to it. But nooooooo! Shove them down everyone's throat because people had been waiting for this for too long.

And FFS! How bad were the episodes about Santos? 

[twinkietwin94]

rewatching along with the podcast and realizing the more times I watch the series the less I like the Sam/Lori story line. The first time or two it was ok but after a dozen rewatches or more lol it's just annoying, honestly I skip the Sam, Josh, Lori scene in IED, just ergh!

[SlackerInc]

I pretty much unreservedly love this show and almost everything about it, but I have one opinion that I think qualifies as unpopular.  I don't like Leo.  He makes sense as a character, he's well written and well acted, but he makes me grit my teeth when he's on screen.

[Moose135]

Heretic... ;-)

[Kohola3]

SlackerInc, what is it about him?  His looks?  Voice?  I absolutely adore him so I'd be curious.

[twinkietwin94]

I love Leo until season 5, the abyss, I don't know what they were thinking but all of a sudden he goes form being a gruff man with a heart of gold to a chrotchety old grouch, constantly yelling and often at CJ

[BW Manilowe]

On July 11, 2016 at 6:39 PM, twinkietwin94 said:

rewatching along with the podcast and realizing the more times I watch the series the less I like the Sam/Lori story line. The first time or two it was ok but after a dozen rewatches or more lol it's just annoying, honestly I skip the Sam, Josh, Lori scene in IED, just ergh!

Small thing... Lisa Edelstein's character's name was actually spelled LAURIE (I'm almost positive). But you can be forgiven for the misspelling, I guess, since the storyline's started to grate on you the more you rewatch the show.

[Guest]

On September 7, 2016 at 6:30 AM, SlackerInc said:

I pretty much unreservedly love this show and almost everything about it, but I have one opinion that I think qualifies as unpopular.  I don't like Leo.  He makes sense as a character, he's well written and well acted, but he makes me grit my teeth when he's on screen.

Just show yourself out right now. 

 

(This is obviously a joke.)

[SlackerInc]

On September 7, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Kohola3 said:

SlackerInc, what is it about him?  His looks?  Voice?  I absolutely adore him so I'd be curious.

It's what Twinkietwin said (crotchety old grouch), but for me it begins right away.   (I saw the whole series when it first aired, but I have been rewatching along with the podcast and just finished the first season.) 

[twinkietwin94]

SlackerInc I can see that, but I guess for me at the beginning he's a loveable old grouch, and he seems to go back to that in 6 & 7, it's just 5 that I don't like him, then again like many I don't like much of season 5 in general

[Crs97]

On June 27, 2016 at 2:01 AM, hiccup said:

1.  I really disliked Amy Gardner.  It might have a little to do with the fact that I'm not really a fan of Mary Louise Parker either.

In watching the season 3 finale, I was reminded why I dislike Amy so much.  Josh has had to make some compromises to get welfare reform passed, one of which is the marriage incentives provision.  Amy goes nuts and wants the entire bill killed instead, regardless of the fact that they got an extra Billion for daycare and other provisions that will help women.  Nope, no compromise for Amy.  (How is she even in politics if she doesn't understand how compromise works?)  She points out how Bartlett is selling out the party and maybe needs to be replaced, but when Josh points out that he will have to make phone calls to all the people who didn't back the bill, she says he threatened her.  How is she characterizing her comments as not a threat?!?

Anyway, my biggest problem with her is that when Josh grabs his cell phone to start making calls, she takes it from him and breaks it.  Then when he goes to the landline, she cuts the cord on his phone.  Was I supposed to find that funny?  Charming?  Just Amy being passionate Amy?  Because I am pretty sure that if Josh had grabbed her phone from her hand and tossed it, she would have characterized it completely differently.

[Danny Franks]

I think the whole Josh/Amy thing was when I started falling out of love with the show. She was a dreadful woman, and Josh's desperation to win her, coupled with his general chauvinistic attitude, really annoyed me. Not that I liked Josh/Donna either. Because he was an asshole to her too, much of the time.

And so I was already annoyed with the show when it was revealed that Rob Lowe was leaving, which meant I pretty much stopped watching at the mid-point of season 4. I eventually watched the rest of season 4, but hated that the Zoey kidnap plot was a point for point rehash of the hypothetical incident Bartlett outlined in Mr. Willis of Ohio. It just felt too hacky.

[kassygreene]

I regard Amy Gardner as a classic example of how Hollywood Men don't know how to write real women.  There's half a dissertation worth of commentary I could follow that up with, but it's been nearer twenty years and there are more urgent things to rail about these days.

The real problem with Amy Gardner is that Mary Louise Parker is apparently a really great person to work with.  So Show kept bringing her back, as other Shows try to keep bringing back characters that were originally planned to be in very short arcs.  To be fair, the character did remain consistent, in no small part (I believe) due to MLP herself, who never lost the side-eye, the acute political awareness, and the permanently wired shut jaw.

[twinkietwin94]

As I'm rewatching season 1, at Noel now. I'm not hating Mandy, ok I hated her in both of the first episodes but in the ones since then she's not bugging me. No she doesn't seem to fit in, she feels like an outsider but other than her intro which was awful I'm not so bothered. First time I've felt that way but I'm trying to watch with fresh eyes, that said even trying that I still can't stand the Sam/Laurie (Lori??) storyline

[Kohola3]

Quote

First time I've felt that way but I'm trying to watch with fresh eyes, that said even trying that I still can't stand the Sam/Laurie (Lori??) storyline

Ditto. That's one of the ones I never convinced myself was worthy of this show.

[Guest]

Hated the Sam Laurie plot with the exception of some one-liners by Josh/Toby.

[Bastet]

Yeah, I can't wish it away, because to this day I use "I don't understand, did you trip over something?" when someone tells me they "accidentally" did something that wasn't at all an accident (e.g. called an ex).  But I hate it.  It's quite offensive how she outright tells him she does not want to be friends with him, that he embarrassed and even scared her, and he just ignores it and decrees they'll be friends because that's what he wants.  Gross.

[Guest]

He definitely seemed to have a "savior, look what a big person I am for being friends with her" vibe going on. I think that's why it took me some time to warm up to his character.

[Danny Franks]

Thankfully, they dropped the storyline pretty quickly. He never did try to 'save' her, other than that thing in The State Dinner, where he offered her ten thousand dollars not to sleep with the guy who brought her. I think someone must have realised that the storyline was doing Sam no favours.

Either that, or it was just the first instance of Sorkin's forgetfulness when it came to Sam and women. But honestly, I think that the show just went in a direction where the drama of Sam's life outside the office (or indeed, anyone's life outside the office) was not needed. Looking back now, it's a storyline that just doesn't fit the show.

But it was all worth it, just to hear CJ say to Josh, "wow, are you stupid!?"

[Kohola3]

21 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But honestly, I think that the show just went in a direction where the drama of Sam's life outside the office (or indeed, anyone's life outside the office) was not needed. Looking back now, it's a storyline that just doesn't fit the show.

I always wonder if this story line was written back when they were going to have Sam be the focus of the show rather than Bartlet.  It makes more sense to have  both office and personal issues and some that crossed.  When they ditched Sam as the central character they went in a totally different direction.

[Bees]

Ooo...can I play? I just got done with the series and have a few to add in.

* I thought Post-Sorkin did a much better job writing conservatives. Though that doesn't mean that Sorkin didn't have his good conservative characters, it's just that Post-Sorkin did a better job with it. 

* I preferred Vinick over Santos as a person, but would've probably voted for Santos because of education. 

* I preferred Josh with Joey Lucas over Amy or Donna. 

* I liked some parts of the Kate/Will relationship, particularly that scene in Drought Conditions when they keep stealing glances at each other set to "Take Five" kind of giving off a "Well...maybe....?"

* I'm still annoyed that there was little resolution to Charlie and Zoey

* I really enjoyed Seasons 6 and 7, even if it felt more like a spinoff. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Bees said:

* I'm still annoyed that there was little resolution to Charlie and Zoey

So much this. 

[queenbee9b]

I was the right age when this show was first on, but I had just left DC and was not in the mood to watch a show that was all DC all the time, even though every one of my friends loved this show and proclaimed it the best thing ever.  So I just wanted the whole show in like 3 weeks and I never really followed anything online (except since I was on TWoP, I did know the the whole sorkin on the boards things, but not the context), so these might not be the most unpopular opinions and if so I apologize. 

I completely agree with Bees, I liked Josh with Joey, at least she stood up to him in a non combative way (Amy) and didn't idolize him (Donna).   To me the Donna you see in Season 7 is at least not working for him and doesn't seem to need his approval as much, so that is better than if he ended up with Season 1-5 Donna.  

I like Will for the most part -- but to be fair I think it is because I like Josh Malina (on Scandal before they destroyed the David Rosen character and on his podcast and his twitter) so I feel like I might be feeling more generous to the character than I would have when it was original on and I would have not been familiar with the actor.  Plus, I kind of like the idea that he and Mary McCormick like each other enough as friends that she brought him to In Plain Sight.

I hate season 6 more than season 7 -- maybe that is because I know they are trying to wrap things up at this point so I can give it a break, but season 6 was such a slog.  Part of the reason (which continues through season 7) is the separation of the cast - episodes with CJ, Leo, Barlett and Toby, then different episodes with Donna, Josh, and Will aren't as compelling as they were when they are all together.  Plus, I just felt like the humor was gone once Sorkin left (this is probably not an UO), even when serious things happened in 1-4 there was something in mos episodes that was lighter.

Also, I love Lily Tomlin, but I could have done without her at all in this series. I think she might have been for the lightness I felt was missing above, but she was in so few episodes that it didn't really work for me. 

[Crs97]

I just rewatched Election Night; I forgot that my dislike of Donna reached new heights when she couldn't figure out her absentee ballot and then spent six hours on the streets begging someone to trade votes with her.  I never liked her, but she officially became too stupid to live with that storyline and never was redeemed.  Why they would trust her with anything more important than a coffee order is a mystery for the ages.

[Kohola3]

2 hours ago, queenbee9b said:

 

2 hours ago, queenbee9b said:

Plus, I just felt like the humor was gone once Sorkin left (this is probably not an UO), even when serious things happened in 1-4 there was something in mos episodes that was lighter.

From 17 People:

JOSH You know what they did?

SAM Yeah.

JOSH They forgot to bring the funny.

SAM Yep...

[twinkietwin94]

10 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I just rewatched Election Night; I forgot that my dislike of Donna reached new heights when she couldn't figure out her absentee ballot and then spent six hours on the streets begging someone to trade votes with her.  I never liked her, but she officially became too stupid to live with that storyline and never was redeemed.  Why they would trust her with anything more important than a coffee order is a mystery for the ages.

I still love Donna but that storyline was ridiculous! As I often say in reference to myself, she's blond but not THAT dumb. I mean really? It bugs me even more bc in my first election I was away at college and voted absentee and it came with instructions. If Donna will comb who knows what all files to justify giving someone a stamp she would read the flipping directions for the absentee ballot, or being so meticulous as to find out that the interpreter doesn't speak the same dialect as the person Josh and Toby wanted to talk to that she hunted down a kitchen worker to use in the translation process come on. (BTW I excuse her for not knowing the guy didn't speak English, Toby didn't know either, neither did Josh and apparently they just assumed the guy didn't) So yeah that storyline annoys me, and much as I do love Christian Slater I hated his character in this.

[oceanblue]

What I hated most about Laurie is that she was an "escort" because she wanted to live in a nice apartment and not have loans, not because she had no other choice.  She's becoming a lawyer but she has so little regard for the law that she breaks if for her comfort and ease.  What kind of lawyer is she going to be?  

[twinkietwin94]

19 hours ago, oceanblue said:

What I hated most about Laurie is that she was an "escort" because she wanted to live in a nice apartment and not have loans, not because she had no other choice.  She's becoming a lawyer but she has so little regard for the law that she breaks if for her comfort and ease.  What kind of lawyer is she going to be?  

I think I would have been bothered less by her choice if she was just doing it to stay in some tiny little place and pay her school bills, but she does live in a really nice apt that would cost I don't even want to think how much in the DC area, even if she's not in DC proper. I get not wanting to have loans and even disagreeing with that particular law, but the snazzy apartment really bothered me.

[Guest]

On 1/11/2017 at 10:30 AM, Crs97 said:

I just rewatched Election Night; I forgot that my dislike of Donna reached new heights when she couldn't figure out her absentee ballot and then spent six hours on the streets begging someone to trade votes with her.  I never liked her, but she officially became too stupid to live with that storyline and never was redeemed.  Why they would trust her with anything more important than a coffee order is a mystery for the ages.

Plus, it was so dumb to "trade votes." The election isn't decided by popular vote, so you can't trade votes in any way that makes sense. 

[oceanblue]

I can understand not wanting to have loans too - no one wants to have loans - but I had loans and paid them and in hindsight I still think that was better than being a prostitute.   I lived in a crappy apartment while in school and for a while after.  I lived.   If she was a single mom doing it to feed her kid and build a better life for them, she's got no problem from me.  

[twinkietwin94]

On 1/23/2017 at 7:09 PM, deaja said:

Plus, it was so dumb to "trade votes." The election isn't decided by popular vote, so you can't trade votes in any way that makes sense. 

as we've learned twice in the past 16 years

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

She knew her vote wasn't really going to count as a trade. She commented about how her vote in Wisconsin meant more for some reason, than the democratic vote in DC. I think she said Bartlett would win DC anyway, but, the Wisconsin vote mattered more. She just wanted a democratic vote in her "name."

[twinkietwin94]

47 minutes ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

She knew her vote wasn't really going to count as a trade. She commented about how her vote in Wisconsin meant more for some reason, than the democratic vote in DC. I think she said Bartlett would win DC anyway, but, the Wisconsin vote mattered more. She just wanted a democratic vote in her "name."

Well her vote does count as more when it comes to electoral college than one in some other places

[Guest]

Jed is the only Bartlet I like. Zoey is ok. The rest would improve the show greatly by never being on the show.

This opinion is prompted by my current rewatch of Abu El Banat, but has been true throughout my watch of the show.

[CJRocks]

I love Toby. I always assumed the twins were made the old-fashioned way. I never picked up any IVF clues. If Toby expected to be nothing more than a sperm donor, why was he willing to turn his life upside-down and buy her a house so they could marry and raise the babies together?

I think Donna is the one character who showed true growth. She started out as that dippy volunteer who was getting over a broken heart to Chief of Staff to the First Lady! She took her job and her time in the White House seriously and actually learned and flourished.

Hated Amy. Loved Ainsley. Loved CJ, but did hate her as CoS, although as someone pointed out, if they gave the job to Josh, then he couldn't go to work for Santos. I didn't care for the whole Shareef/Stalker/Simon arc either, but then we wouldn't have seen CJ in the black Vera Wang, or seen her fall over when she shot Simon's gun, or when she touched her face because he made her feel feminine, or Allison Janney's superb emoting during "Hallelujah".

I liked Beginning Will Bailey, then hated Bingo Bob Will Bailey. Would the man who prayed for rain in CA be the same man who ran the campaign of a bumbling fool? The man who had the courage to ask the President why a Kundunese life was worth less to him? I think not.

I hated the way they turned Chili-cooking Zoey into Spoiled Princess Zoey. And her on again-off again with Charlie? That poor man. Charlie/Jed scenes were among my favorite.

Leo was and always will be The Man. More than anything, I hated the way Jed treated him up at Camp David, basically bullied him into that first heart attack.

My favorite peripheral character was and always will be Ron Butterfield.

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, CJRocks said:

I didn't care for the whole Shareef/Stalker/Simon arc either, but then we wouldn't have seen CJ in the black Vera Wang, or seen her fall over when she shot Simon's gun, or when she touched her face because he made her feel feminine, or Allison Janney's superb emoting during "Hallelujah".

Damn, had to reach for a tissue just remembering that.

8 hours ago, CJRocks said:

My favorite peripheral character was and always will be Ron Butterfield.

Ditto!  Loved it when Toby was trying to accept blame after the shooting and Ron shut him down with his calm, matter-of-fact "anyway, the Secret Service doesn't comment on procedure" statement.

[Crs97]

Ron Butterfield was the bomb!

[Kohola3]

Favorite scene.  Loved his understated "thank you".

[Moose135]

19 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Favorite scene.  Loved his understated "thank you".

I love that scene!

[PepperMonkey]

I just started a re-watch... was going to watch every episode, but I find myself skipping to my favorites, which is ok, too.

Here are my unpopular opinions so far:

CJ as chief of staff: for me, it's a no. She's eminently qualified for what she does, but I don't buy her as the logical replacement as CoS when Leo left. I realize they couldn't choose Josh because he was making the decision to go to work for Santos or already had and, obviously, Toby was a non-starter. Bringing in a new chief might have been more interesting but I'm thinking they didn't want to introduce any more new people at that point. Which is just lazy.

Josh/ Donna/ Josh and Donna: Donna was exposition to begin with and then they decided to get rid of Mandy and expand Donna's role. What always rang false to me were the scenes where it was the core staff: CJ, Sam (before he left), Leo, Toby, Josh... and DONNA. None of the other assistants were in the scene. It just felt off to me. I liked Donna okay though, until they decided the big end story was Donna and Josh. I never found Josh that appealing and I agree with all who said J and D had zero chemistry. It would have felt more natural to me if, after their "awkward" sex, they realized they should just be friends and moved on.

Toby and the twins at age 55 or whatever. Gawd. I know this was probably one of the first shows to do this but I'm so tired of that story line. They make these people act like they are going to DIE if they do not procreate. I have 2 kids of my own and I like kids just fine, but not everyone on the effing face of the planet has to have 2 OR MORE kids. Overpopulation is one of my hot buttons anyway, but maybe it's because where I currently live, everyone has 5 or more children and still breeding. Just stop it. Stop it now. Loss of habitat is why the bees are dying.

Finally, and I'm not sure this is actually unpopular: I do not care for Jimmy Smits. Really haven't ever liked him on much of anything I've seen him on, up to and including L.A. Law. So I was never a Santos fan. He always comes across as a "try harder" to me.

[BW Manilowe]

On 3/19/2017 at 10:52 PM, PepperMonkey said:

I just started a re-watch... was going to watch every episode, but I find myself skipping to my favorites, which is ok, too.

Here are my unpopular opinions so far:

CJ as chief of staff: for me, it's a no. She's eminently qualified for what she does, but I don't buy her as the logical replacement as CoS when Leo left. I realize they couldn't choose Josh because he was making the decision to go to work for Santos or already had and, obviously, Toby was a non-starter. Bringing in a new chief might have been more interesting but I'm thinking they didn't want to introduce any more new people at that point. Which is just lazy.

Josh/ Donna/ Josh and Donna: Donna was exposition to begin with and then they decided to get rid of Mandy and expand Donna's role. What always rang false to me were the scenes where it was the core staff: CJ, Sam (before he left), Leo, Toby, Josh... and DONNA. None of the other assistants were in the scene. It just felt off to me. I liked Donna okay though, until they decided the big end story was Donna and Josh. I never found Josh that appealing and I agree with all who said J and D had zero chemistry. It would have felt more natural to me if, after their "awkward" sex, they realized they should just be friends and moved on.

Toby and the twins at age 55 or whatever. Gawd. I know this was probably one of the first shows to do this but I'm so tired of that story line. They make these people act like they are going to DIE if they do not procreate. I have 2 kids of my own and I like kids just fine, but not everyone on the effing face of the planet has to have 2 OR MORE kids. Overpopulation is one of my hot buttons anyway, but maybe it's because where I currently live, everyone has 5 or more children and still breeding. Just stop it. Stop it now. Loss of habitat is why the bees are dying.

Finally, and I'm not sure this is actually unpopular: I do not care for Jimmy Smits. Really haven't ever liked him on much of anything I've seen him on, up to and including L.A. Law. So I was never a Santos fan. He always comes across as a "try harder" to me.

I don't think that it was they didn't want to bring in any new people (a new CoS character) at that point; more like they probably couldn't due to the budget cuts required to keep the show on the air for the last season/season & a half. Therefore, they had to use what/who they already had to work with. Which was CJ because of the storylines involving the other cast members.

[Melancholy]

West Wing introduced a TON of new characters in S6-7. In fact, "I don't care about these new guys. I'm here for the original cast" was IMO the most common critique of S6-7. I really disagree that the S6-7 were lazy or cheap about introducing newbies. I think that the new writers particularly loved Joshs and CJ's characters of the original cast and wanted to develop and change their roles. I enjoyed it. CJ's trajectory was odd but once she was COS, she really fit the job especially since the Bartlet administration was so hobbled by his declining health. She wasn't a super star knock Down impressive COS. She was a dear friend COS bent on preserving Bartlet's legacy even though Bartlet was in failing health. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Melancholy

[Crs97]

I thought CJ was a bad fit as COS, and I felt they puffed up her character to the detriment of President Bartlet and anyone else left on staff.  In my opinion, the writers looked at who had won the most emmys and decided she could just run everything.  Then they also made Josh incredibly stupid on the campaign, making all sorts of terrible decisions, to puff up Donna and Jeanine G's character.  YMMV, but I try to stay clear of those post-AS seasons.

[Melancholy]

I love Jed Bartlet but I really appreciated that his illness impaired him in the last two years. It made the MS more than just a S2-3 story. I think Toby was the only White House character done wrong after CJ became COS but given Toby's lack of a personal story as well as his professional limitations and then failure, I don't think the new writers besides Deborah Cahn responded to his character.

I think Josh was characterized fairly in S6-7, except when he was OTT callous and incompetent in Third Day Story. I do agree that his mistakes still worked actively to fluff a character to the point of annoyance but IMO, that character was Matt Santos. Donna didn't join Team Santos until mid-S7. Lou Thornton came to be more Josh Lymanesque in her outlook to fiercely hold up the latest icon in the "cult of personalities" as she became a "Santosista". (I really like that exchange between Lou and Josh.) Meanwhile, Santos was constantly sold as a perfect candidate by making him smarter, cooler, more righteous, more manly, etc. than Josh. 

Edited March 24, 2017 by Melancholy

[twinkietwin94]

Wait was Toby 55? I put him in his 40s maybe. Ok just looked it up he was born December 23, 1954 so when the show aired he was mid 40s, tons of people having kids at that age anymore, especially with IVF as it seems they did.  Donna's whining for a better job made me crazy I was glad when she finally left Josh and her character finally seemed to grow by the time they got together it seemed to fit it worked for me, before that up until Gaza it was a little too much schoolgirl crush for me.