S02.E10: Grey Green Brown & Copper

[formerlyfreedom]

Maura reconciles with her lineage, both past and present; Ali talks to Leslie about her academic future; Josh looks to Buzz as a father figure; Sarah tries to tie up loose ends.

 

 

[marys1000]

I binge watched, no spoilers.  Generally;
The first third or so I thought wow, brave new territory
The second third or so I felt a little traumatized (no epic horrible things just.....)
By the last few episodes I'm sorry I watched. 
 
 

[heatherchandler]

I binge watched, no spoilers.  Generally;

The first third or so I thought wow, brave new territory

The second third or so I felt a little traumatized (no epic horrible things just.....)

By the last few episodes I'm sorry I watched.

Second season slump?

Way too much sex. Not enough life. I also don't like the Berlin stuff. That Gitte person bugged me, that's not the show I am interested in seeing.

Why so little Anjelic Houston? I think she's so spectacular, I wanted more of her.

Music was good throughout.

[marys1000]

This was more than a slump.  It was like a whole different show. 

 

Yes to the too much sex, the flickety flickety thing is horrible. 

 

I thought Houston's legs looked fantastic:)  And yes SHE is fantastic.  Totally wasted on this waste of a season. Although the peek

into the Wild Wymen world was sort of interesting and I thought the actor playing the lesbian poet (of the awful poetry!)  has a lot of natural charisma that

she probably has in real life.  I don't know her but will probably look her up.  . 

Edited December 13, 2015 by marys1000

[heatherchandler]

This was more than a slump.  It was like a whole different show. 

 

Yes to the too much sex, the flickety flickety thing is horrible. 

 

I thought the actor playing the lesbian poet (of the awful poetry!)  has a lot of natural charisma that

she probably has in real life.  I don't know her but will probably look her up.  .

I was grossed out by the flicky business. I'm no prude I swear, but I just...no.

Love the lesbian poet, too. Wasn't she in the Perfecr Storm? She's magnetic!

[Maysie]

I watched the second season over three days. It was just interesting enough to make me want to see how the season went but far from compelling enough to keep me interested for more than an episode or two at a time. I felt like most of the season was much weaker than the first season because it felt like it went so far away from Maura's situation. I am not a prude, but I got tired of all the sex, particularly with Sarah and Ali. I guess it adds to the storyline in that it's part of their character development, but I don't like either character and I'm not interested in their lives much beyond the ramifications of Maura's transition.

 

And am I the only person who was put off by Ali immediately removing her shirt in front of Maura as soon as they were settled at the festival? It felt weird to me. I get that she's a free spirit and experimenting and all that bullshit, but I was squicked out by it. Perhaps it was to signal that she's the one in the family who's truly accepted Maura???

 

Honestly, I think the show could end right at this point. It feels like they aren't too keen on really delving into the interesting parts of Maura's transition. I think some of the bones were there: Maura's relationship with her mother and sister, the doctor putting her on the spot about surgery and sex, her relationship with other transgenders (especially Davina), how other women feel about her and how the kids and Shelly were navigating the change. However it feels like they basically acknowledged that stuff and otherwise spent a lot of time on Sarah and Ali having sex and Josh's messed up relationship with the rabbi. I was interested in learning what Maura was thinking about gender reassignment - why would or wouldn't she have it done, for example? You'd think someone that felt she was born into the wrong gender would have given at least a little thought about whether she'd have the surgery. I wanted to understand more about her thought process on that but oh well -- Sarah is daydreaming about the high school disciplinarian. Let's spend more time on that.

 

Though I like Cherry Jones I had no use for the lesbian poet. I guess I have a hard time with someone who bitches about patriarchy etc. yet at the heart of it, behaves very much like a man of her generation (always going after the younger women, making Ali choose between school and relationship with her). She's a man without the penis, imo.

 

However I fucking LOVE Buzz. I kinda liked his cheesy grilling and branding steaks, buying the margarita maker and all that, but he won me over when he saved the duck. And he is the one person who told Josh what he really needed to hear - I think it's the first bit of real parenting I saw the entire season. In fact, the last four minutes of the last episode were really about the best of the season for me. Buzz needs to run far, far away from all things Pfeiferman; he's way too reasonable and nice to be mixed up with this self-absorbed crew.

[Kostgard]

While I liked season one better, I liked this one too.

There was a lot of sex, but I think season one was about gender, and season two was about sex/sexuality. I completely agree with Maysie about Leslie (the poet). She was spooning out the same bullshit she was rebelling against. She may have made an exception for 32 year old Ali, but Ali is still 20+ years younger and openly worshiped her. Leslie only seemed to like relationships where she had the power. And the whole "wimmin" festival - all about rebelling against the patriarchy, yet they worked to exclude trans women from their ranks and screamed at and taunted men who were just trying to do their jobs. I'm glad Ali chose student over girlfriend when it came to Leslie, but I don't know if student will be any healthier than girlfriend.

Poor Syd. I knew Ali would crush her heart. I hope she stays away in the future. She deserves better. As does the Rabbi. As does Buzz, but it was nice to see someone actually parent Josh for once in his life. I like both Maura and Shelly, but they were super-shitty parents, and I think Josh is hungry for guidance. He tried hard to do the right thing this season, and he ended up losing everything.

Side note - Josh is the only family member who works. Where do these people get their money? Is Maura's retirement that comfortable? Well, I guess Shelly's very nice condo could be from Ed's money, and maybe Sarah is getting alimony from Len, but Ali is certainly supported by Maura. And even though Josh works, he's coming out of a period where he didn't have any income, so he was either smart enough to save or he's got money from the parents too.

 

Edited December 14, 2015 by Kostgard

[gesundheit]

Cherry Jones's character was just so wonderfully awful this season. I loved that (as infuriating as it was).

 

I still feel like this was just a teaser, though. It's weird, as if I'm waiting for a few more episodes. The pace isn't really conducive to all these 28-minute episodes. 

 

Anyway, I enjoyed that Maura wasn't Saint Maura this season and was allowed to be as awful as everyone else on occasion. And I kept waiting for people to stop saying, "Oh, I wouldn't have brought you/would've told you not to bring her," etc, etc, regarding the music festival and just have one person say, "Oh if I'd known that was the policy, I wouldn't have gone."

 

Josh's journey was oddly the most sympathetic one for me this season.

Edited December 14, 2015 by gesundheit

[Maysie]

 

I'm glad Ali chose student over girlfriend when it came to Leslie, but I don't know if student will be any healthier than girlfriend.

 

I have a sense with Ali she'll try to have it both ways. She's spoiled and entitled and doesn't seem to understand the word "no." Self-denial is not a strong suit with the Pfeifermans. And I agree with all the bullshit that the lesbian poet was spouting that the student role may not be a real healthy option. You know, the poet's neighbor made a point to say that the poet goes for young bodies. I also wonder if that also includes young minds -- minds that can be molded and influenced. Ali comes across as incredibly immature to me; I was frankly shocked that she was 33 because she behaves a good ten years younger than that.

 

 

Side note - Josh is the only family member who works. Where do these people get their money? Is Maura's retirement that comfortable? Well, I guess Shelly's very nice condo could be from Ed's money, and maybe Sarah is getting alimony from Len, but Ali is certainly supported by Maura. And even though Josh works, he's coming out of a period where he didn't have any income, so he was either smart enough to save or he's got money from the parents too.

 

Another thing I've been wondering about too. I was really pleased when Davina called Maura out on her privileged status, though I think it went right over Maura's head. There's obviously some pot of money or tree outside somewhere that they can continuously draw from. Hell, even a throwaway line about Grandpa Pfeiferman's shrewd investing or something like that would be welcome.

 

 

And I kept waiting for people to stop saying, "Oh, I wouldn't have brought you/would've told you not to bring her," etc, etc, regarding the music festival and just have one person say, "Oh if I'd known that was the policy, I wouldn't have gone."

 

This is a great point. It was never about not going; it was only about getting into/stirring up trouble. I also thought it was pretty interesting that neither Sarah or Ali seemed the least bit concerned with what happened to Maura. I never had the sense they went searching for her or even tried to call her (which begs the question: why just the note on the board? Are cellphones banned? I'm not snarking but genuinely curious). There was an instant when I was a bit concerned for Maura's safety because of the rather extreme response to the presence of men at the festival who were there to merely do their jobs. I understand why Maura wanted to get out quickly. It's probably the most I've ever identified with her; that was not a sympathetic crowd. And I also think it's pretty telling that the lesbian poet knew exactly how unwelcoming everyone would be but really offered no help or even sympathy to Maura or Ali.

 

For me, Josh's journey was sympathetic partly because Colton was a sympathetic figure and it was clear that Josh really wanted to do right by his kid. The writing has made it plain that ma and pa Pfeiferman pretty much stunk in the parenting department and Josh handled Colton like a stand-up guy -- far better than I would have anticipated, honestly. Josh's storyline is the only one I can think of when a Pfeiferman has actually put someone else first, so it was refreshing.

[gesundheit]

I have a sense with Ali she'll try to have it both ways. She's spoiled and entitled and doesn't seem to understand the word "no." Self-denial is not a strong suit with the Pfeifermans. And I agree with all the bullshit that the lesbian poet was spouting that the student role may not be a real healthy option. You know, the poet's neighbor made a point to say that the poet goes for young bodies. I also wonder if that also includes young minds -- minds that can be molded and influenced. Ali comes across as incredibly immature to me; I was frankly shocked that she was 33 because she behaves a good ten years younger than that.

 

This is a great point. It was never about not going; it was only about getting into/stirring up trouble. I also thought it was pretty interesting that neither Sarah or Ali seemed the least bit concerned with what happened to Maura. I never had the sense they went searching for her or even tried to call her (which begs the question: why just the note on the board? Are cellphones banned? I'm not snarking but genuinely curious). There was an instant when I was a bit concerned for Maura's safety because of the rather extreme response to the presence of men at the festival who were there to merely do their jobs. I understand why Maura wanted to get out quickly. It's probably the most I've ever identified with her; that was not a sympathetic crowd. And I also think it's pretty telling that the lesbian poet knew exactly how unwelcoming everyone would be but really offered no help or even sympathy to Maura or Ali.

I think cell phones are banned at some of those festivals, yes. I mean, Ali was briefly worried about Maura but only because she shouldn't have brought her due to the policy. It was so frustrating that not one person questioned the policy enough to actually say no to the festival, or apologized to her for having gotten involved in an event that denies their loved one her very identity: her womanhood.

 

This isn't to say that I think we, as viewers, were meant to agree with the policy or the views of the trans-exclusionary rad-feminists. That was a pretty honest depiction of the whole MichFest controversy (except that the Indigo Girls very specifically would not be playing there!). I just wanted her to have one person stand up for her in a bigger way than "Sorry, I would've left you behind if I'd known about the policy."

 

Edited December 14, 2015 by gesundheit

[Kostgard]

I'm kinda not surprised that no one came to Maura's defense in the moment. Obviously if Maura hadn't run away from Angelica Huston, she probably would have said something to support her (since she obviously didn't care that she was trans, helped her get away from the camp, and then the whole business in the hotel room). But in the one scene where they actually discussed it, Maura's only potential ally present was Ali, who was A. stoned, and B. in thrall with Leslie (and C. rather self-absorbed anyway). Leslie and the other ladies weren't going to support Maura since they were the ones who put that rule in place. Well, Leslie may not have been involved, but she was not interested in helping, probably out of some feeling of revenge for the time Maura-then-Mort denied her a teaching position.

 

Despite all that, I did agree with one thing Leslie said, and that is that Maura's pain and privilege are separate things. She was in pain because she was trans and her outside didn't match her inside, but the world didn't know that. The world perceived her as a white male for the vast majority of her life, and treated her accordingly. Maura is or was blind to that. I think she heard Davina, but she was completely shocked to discover that her friend had turned to prostitution to pay the bills (probably because she couldn't get a regular job), was HIV positive (probably as a result of that work) and was willing to settle for that douche-y guy because life taught her that pickings were slim for her. Maura never had to worry about getting a job because the world saw her as an educated white male and she didn't come out until she was returned and doesn't have to answer to any employer). She never had to turn to something so horrible just to pay the rent. She never had to settle for whoever would take her. Maura reminds me of Caitlyn Jenner in that regard (another trans lady who spent the majority of her life as a financially comfortable white male), and I hope next season she'll start to re-educate herself.

[gesundheit]

I'm kinda not surprised that no one came to Maura's defense in the moment. 

Neither am I, I'm just annoyed that neither of her daughters told her later in the light of day that they wouldn't have gone to the festival if they'd known it had such an ugly policy. Instead, the apology (from Ali only) was a tepid "I wouldn't have brought you" and it would be nice to see some reflection... but of course these are the Pfeffermans. I think the show does a pretty good job finding small moments of humanity in these incredibly self-absorbed people, and that would have been a nice opportunity for one. 

[Primetimer]

With S02.E10, Matt Debenham looks back on the sophomore season.

Read the story

[kieyra]

Really liked the season and was surprised to see the negative responses. I thought they explored a lot of pretty nuanced themes, and also made some bold choices, such as what was apparently crossing a major line for some people in displaying that senior citizens can have sexual dimensions. I thought the Berlin flashbacks were beautifully done. I thought the entire Leslie storyline deftly laid out a whole bunch of dorky ideas we have about gender roles, and how we will sometimes follow them off a cliff before we allow ourselves to really stop and think about them. And I thought it had just as much emotional devastation as the first season.

A few weeks ago my sister in law told us she would be transitioning to male. Obviously this has put a lot of these things into sharper perspective for me. My own mother, when I told her about the situation, made the observation that my MiL (who is on the surface okay with all of it) might want to see a counselor anyway because in a way she's losing a daughter. It was something I hadn't considered--and then I just watched Transparent's season 2 finale where they touch on the same concept for Josh.

I'd like to tentatively put forth the possibility that people are focusing on the "awful self centered people" and missing the forest for the trees. Yes, these people are privileged--but they're still people, and they're still fucked up, and the show is trying to show us why while asking a lot of much bigger questions.

Anyway, well done, and I can see why the season has already been nominated for awards.

And God Shay is hot.

Edited December 19, 2015 by kieyra

[Josiah Bounderby]

There's a lot to love in this season, and I will happily watch this cast play these characters for a long, long time.

The entire Weimar thing was a squib. It never ignited. If you are really going to tell the story of the 1930's Pfeffermans, then give that story room to breathe. We were given no time with any of the characters.

And the big reveal is that Great Grandpa Pfefferman was an asshole towards Great Grandma Pfefferman? Please. I could have told you that ten minutes into the first episode of season one.

Dr. Von Whatzitz' Institute of Sexual Freedomness seemed preposterous.. Historically accurate? Maybe. A functioning part of the Transparent universe? No.

My theory: there was a lot of Weimar material written and perhaps even shot that got cut.

[Ruby25]

I actually loved the season and thought it was incredibly ambitious in terms of scope, incorporating all those Berlin flashbacks. And this episode made me cry when Josh broke down over losing his father, because it does seem very obvious that he no longer has any real relationship with her now that she's Maura, while Ali and Sarah still do. I can see how that would be really hard for him, especially as a son who related to him as his dad, even if as he said, he didn't really like him. It's still a big thing to feel that difference.

[Fisher King]

The last episode sure made up for whatever frustrations that may (or may not) have been exhibited in previous eps. I love this show but have to admit to some distractions - or character actions - apart from Maura's journey. But like any personal revelations, they can't not eventually affect those around us, even when we unintentionally but selfishly hurt the ones supporting us the most. Maura's falling back into familiar, frustrating routine with Shelley was a harsh reality, and a misstep neither deserved. Maura's judgmental words to Davina were devastating, and Davina was awesome in her defense. I sure hope Maura learned something. Maura was able to disguise her "little secret" all her life but Davina never had that entitled privilege.

 

I wasn't sure if Ali's Weimar daydreams were sheer fantasy or not. I was profoundly reassured with the meshing of ghosts of Pfeffermans-past.  Maura & Ali's conversation on the train was an honest and much-needed moment. Brownie points for Ali there. The short time with Grandma Rose, Maura's sister, the holocaust ring & the sunset broke me.

 

The scenes of sexual kinks don't bother me, it's the uncomfortable situations Sarah keeps getting herself into that make me cringe. The sexiest things to me this season were Anjelica Houston's legs. I hope AH sticks around awhile. She's good for Maura & I hope Maura doesn't find a way to muck it up. 

 

Loved seeing Richard Masur again. I didn't trust Buzz at first but if Shelley is that amazed that he dares drive at night then he can't be all bad. His scenes with Josh also broke me. Jay Duplass stepped up his acting chops somewhat this season. I think he'll go back & retrieve Colton. And I hope we haven't seen the last of Raquel. Love her.

 

The musical score, opening credits and song selection continue to be top-notch.

 

Even though there were many negative reactions to this season, it's hard to deny that Jill Soloway & Co. can tell an honest, powerful story of people who struggle with living outside "the norm." There are folks living inhibited lives everywhere. Kudos to Soloway for bringing those inhibitions to light, as uncomfortable as they can often be.

[Ashforth]

This season was a huge disappointment.  Every family member was an asshole, not just some of the time, but almost all of the time.  Many of the other characters were also assholes.  Even Raquel became an asshole, manipulating Josh to push away the long lost son who clearly wanted to stay with him.  Those who weren't assholes were victims of the assholes, and some of the assholes were both assholes and victims of the unbridled assholery that permeated almost every episode.

 

There were meaningful themes to be explored (where does Maura fit in?  anywhere?), but the distraction of loathing every major character for his or her awfulness blunted everything else.  For me, it made the season so hard to watch that I almost gave up on it halfway through.  I decided to grit my teeth and keep watching and the last couple of episodes redeemed the season to the point that I'll give season three a shot.  But I'm not excited for it the way I was for this one. 

 

Also I have to add, if this show is a comedy, I am really missing something.  Season 1 had humor with the drama, but for me, Season 2 was not funny.  Was it really supposed to be?

Edited December 26, 2015 by Ashforth

[kathe5133]

This season was a huge disappointment.  Every family member was an asshole, not just some of the time, but almost all of the time.  Many of the other characters were also assholes.  Even Raquel became an asshole, manipulating Josh to push away the long lost son who clearly wanted to stay with him.  Those who weren't assholes were victims of the assholes, and some of the assholes were both assholes and victims of the unbridled assholery that permeated almost every episode.

 

There were meaningful themes to be explored (where does Maura fit in?  anywhere?), but the distraction of loathing every major character for his or her awfulness blunted everything else.  For me, it made the season so hard to watch that I almost gave up on it halfway through.  I decided to grit my teeth and keep watching and the last couple of episodes redeemed the season to the point that I'll give season three a shot.  But I'm not excited for it the way I was for this one. 

 

Also I have to add, if this show is a comedy, I am really missing something.  Season 1 had humor with the drama, but for me, Season 2 was not funny.  Was it really supposed to be?

I agree! I don't know, the first season, Maura's journey and how the kids were affected by her journey and such, was captivating. This season was just weird. It's like the characters were doing weirdness for the sake of weirdness. That "professor". Are we to think she's wise? Her behavior seemed classic pedophile grooming to me. And the oldest daughter is just bizarre! I believe that Josh was molested by the older woman, but, there is just one brief mention of that. I would have liked to see that topic explored more. Why his parents didn't try to stop it. Did they try?

It seems that the storylines were meant to shock for the sake of shock. And really, people orgasm. Does it need to be so graphically portrayed? It feels gratuitous.

I liked the flash backs. I'm guessing the younger sister is ment to be Maura's mother? Wish there had been some consistent attempt at accents. All the characters that were supposed to be German spoke as though they were from Southern California. It seemed unauthentic to me.

I was an enthusiastic watcher of the first season, but quite frankly I am embarrassed to acknowledge that I watch this show now. To me it feels like pornography and that's too bad as it showed such promise.

[Cheerwyn]

I just finished watching  Season 2 and am still digesting it all.

 

I kept thinking that the actress who played  young Rose in the 1930's flasbacks, Emily Robinson, looked familiar.  Turns out she also played young Ali in the flashback episodes in Season 1.

[kieyra]

I agree! I don't know, the first season, Maura's journey and how the kids were affected by her journey and such, was captivating. This season was just weird. It's like the characters were doing weirdness for the sake of weirdness. That "professor". Are we to think she's wise? Her behavior seemed classic pedophile grooming to me. And the oldest daughter is just bizarre! I believe that Josh was molested by the older woman, but, there is just one brief mention of that. I would have liked to see that topic explored more. Why his parents didn't try to stop it. Did they try?

It seems that the storylines were meant to shock for the sake of shock. And really, people orgasm. Does it need to be so graphically portrayed? It feels gratuitous.

I liked the flash backs. I'm guessing the younger sister is ment to be Maura's mother? Wish there had been some consistent attempt at accents. All the characters that were supposed to be German spoke as though they were from Southern California. It seemed unauthentic to me.

I was an enthusiastic watcher of the first season, but quite frankly I am embarrassed to acknowledge that I watch this show now. To me it feels like pornography and that's too bad as it showed such promise.

Briefly:

--I think the professor was meant to show us that even pioneers of issues like gender equality can have deep character flaws, and that giving her a specific thing we traditionally associate with MEN (refusing to date women past a certain age) was intentional.

--The show doesn't talk about Josh's abuse because his family doesn't talk about it and he himself strongly denies it. I felt the S1 episode where all three kids go off on their own because the parents were wrapped up on their own shit was symbolic of the whole series. That's the episode where young Josh goes off with Rita, and no one is around to intervene because then-Dad was at cross dresser camp, and Mom was away drinking.

--I don't recall specifically, but I thought the Berlin scenes were meant to be framed in Alli's imagination, and it was why everyone spoke English.

--I know it freaked everyone out and I didn't exactly enjoy it, but there's something admirable in admitting seniors have a sexual dimension.

Bouncing off of my second point above, I've said it before but the characters are all self-absorbed assholes because of these secrets relating to gender dysphoria and how it affected the subsequent generations. Or at least I think that's the story the show is telling; I don't think any of their behavior is meant to exist in a wacky vacuum.

And yes, I believe we were basically told that Maura had a transgender aunt who died in the Holocaust. The question is, does Maura even know she existed?

Edited December 28, 2015 by kieyra

[kathe5133]

Interesting insights, kierya! It is giving me something to think about. I'm glad I posted and I'm glad you responded!

[HeresTo2016]

Hey everybody. I'm new here. I have a question - haven't been able to read through all posts yet so sorry if it's been answered (although I see that kierya addressed some of what I'm wondering a couple of posts ago).

 

In the flashback-to-Berlin sections of the show, I believe the young actress (the one who played the non-transgender character) is the same one who played young Ali last season. Is that right? If so, what's the reason she would play this character as well? Is there some meaning to it that I'm missing? (Some link between Ali and this character?) Thanks!

Edited January 5, 2016 by HeresTo2016

[girlplease]

I think just to demonstrate the lineage - you know how people say things like "oh, you look just like your grandmother at that age"?

[Fisher King]

I think the reusing of young Ali as a young Grandma Rose could be from present-day Ali's personal imagination of her family history. The reuse of Michaela Watkins & Bradley Whitford is a wink (and good casting) from Soloway & Co.

And yes, I believe we were basically told that Maura had a transgender aunt who died in the Holocaust. The question is, does Maura even know she existed?

 

Great point. I'd also be interested to know if there will be any revelations to the family of how much of Ali's daydreams align with their true history. This could possibly be where Maura's sister returns to shed some light on that.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Fisher King

[pasdetrois]

Just binge-watched the series. Agree that the story's focus was muddied by all the gratuitous (for me, anyway) nudity, sex and manic acting out. LA allows for all that craziness - can you imagine if Maura's story took place in someplace like Little Rock or Sioux Falls?

 

And in the scenes where they are all talking over each other -- the wedding photo scene, Judith Light's mindless babbling - I nearly reached for the remote. 

 

I appreciated the concept of the Weimar thread, but there wasn't enough time per episode to execute it seamlessly.

 

Really admired the performances by Cherry Jones - she killed it, with the charisma and macho posturing - and Kathryn Hahn. I was moved by Jay Duplass' seeming transition and awareness in the synagogue (or temple?) Yom Kippur service.

 

I wonder if what I assume was sexual intercourse between Maura and Vicki (Angelica Huston) will have sent Maura into a confused panic about being trans? Was that a body double in Angelica's mastectomy-reveal scene?

Edited January 22, 2016 by pasdetrois

[paramitch]

I just streamed season two over the past two weeks, and found this show more maddening than ever.

 

As with season 1, I thought there were some incredibly beautiful and poignant moments throughout the season and this episode... but also a ton of tone-deaf, frustrating and unconvincing ones as well. The 1933 stuff I generally found clunky, obvious and awkwardly integrated, and the dialogue for those scenes was almost uniformly terrible -- the syntax always sounded too modern to me, and too forced. 

 

And since I pretty much loathed the kids in season 1, I was disappointed that there was even more focus on them this season. I understand that their flaws are supposed to make them human, but do they all have to be such oblivious, shallow assholes? I think the show's successful in painting Maura as a complex and believable, sympathetic, and flawed human. I think it largely fails at this with Shelly, and the kids.

 

But overall, I don't find their troubles or petty problems fascinating or universal, and for me there's just too little payoff to the rare sweet moments because I have to sit through a dozen other labored, cruel or overly contrived ones. 

 

I thought Houston's legs looked fantastic:)  And yes SHE is fantastic.  Totally wasted on this waste of a season. Although the peek

into the Wild Wymen world was sort of interesting and I thought the actor playing the lesbian poet (of the awful poetry!)  has a lot of natural charisma that she probably has in real life.  I don't know her but will probably look her up.  . 

 

I thought Angelica Huston was amazing, and I wished she'd been a larger part of the season. And speaking of Huston, I don't mind the show's honesty about sex -- I actually really liked those moments because they were so vulnerably acted and filmed. 

 

Cherry Jones's character was the poet, and she's one of my favorite elements of the season -- as with Huston, it's great to see an older actress given the chance to play a sexy, confident and complex character like this. If you're not familiar with her, she's an absolutely fantastic stage actress -- she won Tony Awards for The Heiress and Doubt (and is a five-time nominee), and she's also been great in tons of smaller movie roles. I always thought Jones was awesome, but I've never seen anyone give her the chance to play someone sexy like this -- she must have had a blast in this role.

 

However it feels like they basically acknowledged that stuff and otherwise spent a lot of time on Sarah and Ali having sex and Josh's messed up relationship with the rabbi. I was interested in learning what Maura was thinking about gender reassignment - why would or wouldn't she have it done, for example? You'd think someone that felt she was born into the wrong gender would have given at least a little thought about whether she'd have the surgery.

 

However I fucking LOVE Buzz. I kinda liked his cheesy grilling and branding steaks, buying the margarita maker and all that, but he won me over when he saved the duck. And he is the one person who told Josh what he really needed to hear - I think it's the first bit of real parenting I saw the entire season. In fact, the last four minutes of the last episode were really about the best of the season for me. Buzz needs to run far, far away from all things Pfeiferman; he's way too reasonable and nice to be mixed up with this self-absorbed crew.

 

This -- well said. I was interested in Maura's continuing search to define herself, and I felt like that was too often sidelined right when it got interesting. She never even got a real conversation with Davina about what happened, and the suicide hotline subplot felt very strangely and abruptly shoehorned then abandoned to me. But on the plus side, I love Buzz too, and what a gentle and kind person he turned out to be (he definitely needs to run far, far from the horrible Shelly). 

 

Leslie only seemed to like relationships where she had the power. And the whole "wimmin" festival - all about rebelling against the patriarchy, yet they worked to exclude trans women from their ranks and screamed at and taunted men who were just trying to do their jobs. I'm glad Ali chose student over girlfriend when it came to Leslie, but I don't know if student will be any healthier than girlfriend.

 

I got a kick out of Leslie because she was such a complex mix -- she's definitely got a little arrogance (and her thing for twenty year-olds was a nice reminder that men don't have a corner on shallowness) while still coming across as genuinely fascinating, smart, and sexy. I actually liked her giving Ali the ultimatum about choosing between love and study with her in the end, as anything else would have been really unethical.

 

I mean, Ali was briefly worried about Maura but only because she shouldn't have brought her due to the policy. It was so frustrating that not one person questioned the policy enough to actually say no to the festival, or apologized to her for having gotten involved in an event that denies their loved one her very identity: her womanhood.

 

The bummer of it was that I found the early scenes at the festival so joyful and lovely, and the show's use of music in all those moments was so magical. So it really was a shock when we realized that some of these free-spirited women, who seemed so kind and universally loving, were so hateful and toxic toward the men just doing their jobs (and toward poor Maura and other trans women). It was an effective way to spotlight that irrational prejudices exist on all sides.

 

Really liked the season and was surprised to see the negative responses. I thought they explored a lot of pretty nuanced themes, and also made some bold choices, such as what was apparently crossing a major line for some people in displaying that senior citizens can have sexual dimensions. I thought the Berlin flashbacks were beautifully done. I thought the entire Leslie storyline deftly laid out a whole bunch of dorky ideas we have about gender roles, and how we will sometimes follow them off a cliff before we allow ourselves to really stop and think about them. And I thought it had just as much emotional devastation as the first season.

A few weeks ago my sister in law told us she would be transitioning to male. Obviously this has put a lot of these things into sharper perspective for me. My own mother, when I told her about the situation, made the observation that my MiL (who is on the surface okay with all of it) might want to see a counselor anyway because in a way she's losing a daughter. It was something I hadn't considered--and then I just watched Transparent's season 2 finale where they touch on the same concept for Josh.

 

I agree with a lot of your thoughts, it's just that for me, those wonderful moments were still too few and far between.

 

But I have liked the show's compassionate and unblinking look at sexuality among older adults, among those with scars or imperfect bodies, as well as young ones.

 

I'm so happy for your sister-in-law and her news that she's transitioning -- that takes a lot of courage. I'm glad she has family like yours to support her.

 

I'd like to tentatively put forth the possibility that people are focusing on the "awful self centered people" and missing the forest for the trees. Yes, these people are privileged--but they're still people, and they're still fucked up, and the show is trying to show us why while asking a lot of much bigger questions.

 

 

I watch TV to spend time with characters that interest or fascinate me, and ideally, to spend time with protagonists I like (or respect), and my main problem with "Transparent" is that I don't like anyone but Maura and her friends, and the occasional supporting character. The Pfeffermans are generally dependable as the least interesting and worst people among all the characters on the show.

 

I just don't find the show consistent at a basic, foundational level. The Pfeffermans all wander in a haze of unconscious privilege, casually unconcerned with where to live or how to eat, and it's too huge for me to simply handwave. It's the oldest trope in television, and this show that has the chance to give us real human beings, glosses over the basic struggle to survive that most people face. Pretty much everyone on this show has few visible means of support, freeing them up to navel-gaze in a constant state of arrested development and immaturity, narcissism and self-obsession.

 

And it's not just privilege for me, or that unconscious arrogance of the characters, it's the fact that both combine with a kind of constant, casual cruelty -- Sarah toward Tammy, Ali toward her girlfriend, Josh toward Raquel, etc. It made sense to me in Maura's scene with Davina -- Maura has no idea how privileged and sheltered she's really been, so it made sense to me that she would be shockingly insensitive on occasion. (Paralleling the fact that -- as Leslie pointed out -- Maura completely compartmentalized how she and her department were treated while she was still living as a man.)
 

I think Gaby Hoffman is a fearless actress, but Ali is my other main problem. I feel like she's a stand-in for Soloway, and I think she's a terrible lens into the show -- to me, it feels like she's supposed to be presented as a kind of adorably clueless, well-meaning free spirit, but instead she just comes off to me like a narcissistic, thoughtless ass most of the time. But then -- as with most of the kids' characters, she'll have these few, rare moments of total exuberance or sweetness, and I forgive her again.

 

The entire Weimar thing was a squib. It never ignited. If you are really going to tell the story of the 1930's Pfeffermans, then give that story room to breathe. We were given no time with any of the characters.

And the big reveal is that Great Grandpa Pfefferman was an asshole towards Great Grandma Pfefferman? Please. I could have told you that ten minutes into the first episode of season one.

 

Yeah, I found the 1933 stuff incredibly labored, obvious, and clumsily telegraphed. It didn't help that I found it sloppily produced as well -- very few of the scenes looked or felt believably of the period to me at all. 

 

I wasn't sure if Ali's Weimar daydreams were sheer fantasy or not. I was profoundly reassured with the meshing of ghosts of Pfeffermans-past.  Maura & Ali's conversation on the train was an honest and much-needed moment. Brownie points for Ali there. The short time with Grandma Rose, Maura's sister, the holocaust ring & the sunset broke me.

 

I was constantly unclear about the ways the 1933 scenes and characters were integrated into Ali's present, and found them ultimately fairly amateurish. I wish there had been more of a tangible connection between Ali's research and discoveries so that 1933 bridged the present more seamlessly. I also thought there was a weird casualness and lack of flow to those scenes as well. It just didn't work for me.

 

There were meaningful themes to be explored (where does Maura fit in?  anywhere?), but the distraction of loathing every major character for his or her awfulness blunted everything else.  For me, it made the season so hard to watch that I almost gave up on it halfway through.  I decided to grit my teeth and keep watching and the last couple of episodes redeemed the season to the point that I'll give season three a shot.  But I'm not excited for it the way I was for this one. 

 

Also I have to add, if this show is a comedy, I am really missing something.  Season 1 had humor with the drama, but for me, Season 2 was not funny.  Was it really supposed to be?

 

I really agree with this. My dislike for most of the main characters constantly undermined the goodwill I felt from the show's occasional really lovely and true moments.

 

To echo other posters, I do think the show's use of music is one of its strongest and best points. To me, so many times, for me to like the characters I just really needed them to shut up, and let the music communicate what they really felt (as it so often did). I love the music for this show even when I find its characters obnoxious.

[7-Zark-7]

I hated the second season. Especially since they took the Rabbi, one of the few characters that I liked (aside from the lead) and turned her into just another self centered person among many.