S19: Samoa

[Whimsy]

Here is your Survivor S19 topic.

[fishcakes]

I'm watching this again for the first time since it originally aired, and although it pains me to say this ... Russell Hantz isn't as bad a player as I remember. His social game was much better the first time around. He was a complete dick in the first few days, but mostly in the confessionals and in the middle of the night, pouring out water and burning socks while everyone else slept, so the others weren't really on to him and if they were, he voted them out. But once it got down to the Foa Foa four of him, Natalie, Mick, and Jaison, they were actually a pretty tight group and seemed to genuinely like each other. His misplays were mostly in talking to Galu members, where he'd show his idol to one person after another, trying to get them to flip, and telling each that no one else knew about it, as if they wouldn't talk to each other, but since he actually did get John to flip, it worked despite its stupidity, so I can't fault him too much.

 

I hated this season the first time around but am liking it much better now. Having subsequent shitfests like Nicaragua, One World, and Worlds Apart is probably part of the reason, but mainly it's because it's entertaining to watch Galu lose their 8 - 4 merge majority due to sheer arrogance. I have to give Natalie and Russell equal credit for making that happen, with an assist from Jaison, whose idea it was to target Erik right after the merge. Mick was pretty, but a non-entity. Natalie cracked Galu first, and Russell bulldozed his way through it with a combination of idol play and working Shambo. In my opinion, Natalie was a worthy winner, but Russell would have been too. I think he got worse in HvV because he went into it thinking he'd won Samoa and it made him lose whatever small bit of humility he had about his gameplay and then even worse in RI because his ego wouldn't allow him to admit that he wasn't the greatest. But if he'd won Samoa over Natalie, I wouldn't consider that a travesty. I do still hate him for the way he badmouthed her after she won, though.

 

Second unpopular opinion: Ben is a far worse human being than Colton. Both are hateful and ignorant, but Ben is aggressive about it. There doesn't seem to be any information online about where he is now or what he's doing, so I'm going to assume he's in prison.

 

Galu is simply annoying, individually and collectively. Laura Morrett is a 40-year-old high school mean girl. Shambo is weird and obstinate. Erik, John, and "Danger Dave" (pardon me while I roll my eyes) are condescending jerks. Brett and Kelly seem fairly normal, so naturally they get no airtime. But Monica has them all beat. A smug, worthless moron. TURRRIBLE in the challenges and zero strategic ability, yet she swanned around the camp like she invented the game. And so so proud of herself for making Russell angry (the day he voted her useless ass out), as if that was difficult. All you had to do to make Russell angry was say you didn't trust him, as Marisa, Betsy, and Liz all learned right before he got everyone to vote them out. How she got voted in by the fans for Season 31 is a mystery to me. I'm guessing people either didn't remember her or just wanted eye candy because she is one of the worst players ever.

 

Watching the finale tonight so I get to see Russell cry at the Reunion. Yay! Or ... I'm conflicted.

 

ETA: After watching the Ponderosa videos after Shambo got voted out, my opinion of Monica is a lot higher. She was nice to Shambo, gave her a hug when she arrived, and talked to her at dinner. Laura and Kelly, on the other hand, made a point of sitting as far away as possible, drinking, staring daggers at Shambo, and talking about how she "ruined" Ponderosa. My opinion of Monica's gameplay stands, but at least she's a decent, kind person.

Edited January 24, 2016 by fishcakes

[LadyChatts]

I threw votes Monica's way for S31, despite remembering zilch about her.  But it was more 'she seems better than some alternatives, and I have to vote for 10 people' kind of vote.  Looking bad, I'm kind of sorry I voted her in.  Maybe it would have been different if she was on Ta'Keo or switched to Angkor and actually had a chance to play, instead of her first time losing was the time she was voted out.

 

I like Samoa more on re-watch as well.  I wouldn't rank it top 10, but I do think a lot of it has to do with some of the craptastic seasons that followed after it.  I was a huge Russell fan at the time, even though it somewhat nauseates me now that he was pretty much the face of Samoa and the love affair Probst & CBS had with his family.  I don't think he's the be all that ends all for Survivor players or the greatest person to ever play.  I also didn't like his attitude about wanting to change the rules because he couldn't win on 2 attempts (at that point when he was throwing his tantrum) and his wanting to just have the title of Sole Survivor.  He dug his own grave during HvsV and RI.  I don't think he anticipated anyone being given any info about him pre-game for HvsV, but I also agree I think he thought he won Samoa and that's where a lot of his arrogance came from.  I also don't think he changed his game at all during RI, regardless of what he tried to say.  He became more of a laughable train wreck at that point.  He's still a legend in his own mind.  Natalie was a deserving winner.  It took a re-watch for me to remember much about her, but I think she's a deserving and underrated winner.  If it wasn't for Samoa being turned into the Russell show, I think we would have seen more that she did to deserve her win. 

 

I liked Shambo Jaison, and Brett from this season the most.  I know Shambo has turned down any offers to return, but I'd love to see the other 2 return.  Galu was annoying.  Never liked Laura and find her even more annoying now since she played with Ciera.  Yasmin, I actually kind of enjoyed her going to Foa Foa and trying to tell them everything they were doing wrong at camp, if for any other reason that it made Ben look like an even more ignorant tool.  Many of the other women blend together for me this season.  I liked the other Russell the first go round, not so much after Philippines.  Watching Galu self destruct at the merge and lose their majority was one for the books.  Loved the location, and the challenges this season were among some of my all time favorites.  Ben is yet another contestant that made me question the screening process for this show.  He's a scary dude.  I always expected to see him show up on Dr Phil under the headline 'Our son is a ticking time bomb that tried to murder us in our sleep'.  I'm glad he was an early ouster. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by LadyChatts

[fishcakes]

It took a re-watch for me to remember much about her, but I think she's a deserving and underrated winner.  If it wasn't for Samoa being turned into the Russell show, I think we would have seen more that she did to deserve her win.

 

I agree. She had a killer social game; it helped that she was sitting next to Russell, but in her own right I don't think anyone had a bad word to say about her.

 

I liked Jaison a lot too. The way he calmly yet with open disgust took down both Ben and Erik at TC was so great.

[phlebas]

Second unpopular opinion: Ben is a far worse human being than Colton. Both are hateful and ignorant, but Ben is aggressive about it. There doesn't seem to be any information online about where he is now or what he's doing, so I'm going to assume he's in prison.

That is probably fair :)

 

I rewatched this too not long ago, and I had forgotten about Ben. He is definitely a toxic piece of work.  I'm not quite ready to put him ahead of Colton, but that may only be because Colton was on my TV longer. I can put them tied for the top spot.

 

(Well... arguably behind Brandon, but I think Brandon is actually a decent guy who was struggling with some demons.)

 

I think this is him: https://twitter.com/browningben

 

Looking through his feed, there is little of substance. Not a surprise.

[fishcakes]

Ugh, yes, that's clearly him. Tweeting about a "little ratchet black girl" and hashtagging it #trashybitch and talking about guns and his nasty sex dreams. Why are they letting him tweet from prison? 

 

I watched the finale last night and Russell didn't cry! I feel cheated. It must have been the HvV finale where he cried.

 

But here was a weird little thing. In one of Jaison's Ponderosa videos, he's in the bathroom in his cabin shaving his face and head and it's a cute, goofy segment where first he shaves in a goatee and says he was trying for Denzel but ended up looking more like Chris Rock, then he shaves half his head and half his face and repeatedly turns to the unshaved side and says, "Survivor Me" then to the shaved side saying, "New Me." But in the middle of the segment, the camera pans left for a few seconds and we see Monica asleep in the bed. Which ... what? Let's hear more about that, show. I mean, I know that there weren't cabins for everyone and people were sharing, but I'd like to know how he ended up sharing with Monica and not, say, John or Dave Ball. Maybe it's no big deal since they all slept in a big stinky pile back at camp, but I would like some more gossipy details on this pairing.

[phlebas]

I watched the finale last night and Russell didn't cry! I feel cheated. It must have been the HvV finale where he cried.

He didn't cry, but his unhinged, whiny begging to get Natalie to sell him the title is almost as good.

 

For Quality Russell Tears, watch his exit from Redemption Island. You'll feel like licking your fingers clean.  (Then look away the next time the word Hantz gets mentioned. If you haven't seen Brandon before, there is no happy ending down that road.)

[ljenkins782]

Second unpopular opinion: Ben is a far worse human being than Colton. Both are hateful and ignorant, but Ben is aggressive about it. There doesn't seem to be any information online about where he is now or what he's doing, so I'm going to assume he's in prison.

 

That is probably fair :)

 

I rewatched this too not long ago, and I had forgotten about Ben. He is definitely a toxic piece of work.  I'm not quite ready to put him ahead of Colton, but that may only be because Colton was on my TV longer. I can put them tied for the top spot.

 

(Well... arguably behind Brandon, but I think Brandon is actually a decent guy who was struggling with some demons.)

 

I think this is him: https://twitter.com/browningben

 

Looking through his feed, there is little of substance. Not a surprise.

 

 

Lol on the prison part, if he's not there yet, he will be. 

 

I would put him ahead of Colton on the loathsome human being scale because of his treatment of animals (in addition to his horrible treatment of people.) Shoving sticks down lizard's throats and reportedly torturing small animals while they were out there (and probably at home as well) makes him far worse than Colton's bitchy personality to me. 

 

Laura Morrett is a 40-year-old high school mean girl.

 

Ugh, I couldn't stand Laura on this season. I liked her slightly better on BvW because I can't help but soften toward people when they're shown with family, but she was very unpleasant on Samoa.

 

I liked the other Russell the first go round, not so much after Philippines.

 

I couldn't stand other Russell on either one of his go arounds and I'm not entirely sure why. His overly dramatic voice bugs the shit of me, he makes every simple little thing he says sound like some kind of grand pronouncement and he seemed to have a very healthy dose of arrogance about his leadership role. 

[LadyChatts]

In the Ben vs Colton debate, both are despicable human beings but for different reasons.  Colton snagged a guy like Caleb (RIP) so I feel like he couldn't have been that bad of a person to get a nice guy like Caleb.  I believe Colton played the part of the villain and played it up for airtime.  Not to say he didn't really believe what he was saying or that he isn't some obnoxious arrogant tool in real life.  But he knew what he was going when saying that.  It even gave him extra airtime than he probably would have gotten during the OW reunion because Jeff needed to touch on it and see if he'd apologize.

 

Ben?  I don't think there was any playing up anything for him.  That's how he is.  Anyone who tortures animals and gets off on it has issues.  I cringe to think of what he would have done had he stayed out there longer.  I feel like he might have been the first person in Survivor history to possibly get bounced from the game for conduct issues.

[Constantinople]

On 1/24/2016 at 11:44 AM, fishcakes said:

Second unpopular opinion: Ben is a far worse human being than Colton. Both are hateful and ignorant, but Ben is aggressive about it. There doesn't seem to be any information online about where he is now or what he's doing, so I'm going to assume he's in prison.

I wouldn't be surprised.  I don't know if it amuses me, but I thought it was interesting that Ben was such an asshole that Foa Foa couldn't even put up with him.

The one thing that did amuse me after-the-fact was Brett having the first TH of the season and then disappearing until the end.

[cherrypj]

@fishcakes sums it up nicely, I think.

If they hadn't shoved L'il Russell down our throats and let some of the other players, you know, talk, I would have liked him better. He didn't seem to be playing against the other contestants: he played the producers, exploiting their laziness and predictability. Every time he found an idol without a clue, it was a big ol' "TRY HARDER" sign for TPTB. But maybe the other players were just that bad. 

That Galu tribe was miserable. From 8-4 to 1-4 in numbers. It was fun to watch Erik go. And I'm guessing this was the original Purple Kelly?

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, cherrypj said:

And I'm guessing this was the original Purple Kelly?

The original Purple Kelly was from the Nicaragua season, called that because some of her hair was dyed purple and to distinguish her from the other Kelly on that season. She was even more invisible than Samoa Kelly, which a lot of people speculate was punishment for something she did in the game (I won't spoil it, in case you haven't seen that season yet). But I don't know if that's true; there are usually one or two people who get almost no airtime when the season includes a big, obnoxious personality, and Nicaragua had Naonka, who did the same thing Purple Kelly did, and yet was in our faces every episode.

Samoa was similar. Because it was The Russell Show, we didn't hear much from Kelly and when it got to the end, it turned out there was a Brett who'd been there all along.

[SVNBob]

Found a couple of very interesting things that I totally forgot about from this season, in regards to a question being asked about the current season.  While looking for a scene from season one or FVF, I found a scene from episode 9 in which Natalie (the eventual winner) kills a rat.

 

In the same search I found what I think is a "secret scene" from Shambo about the rat-eating and her not participating while everyone else did.

 

What makes this interesting is the symbolism one can assign to these scenes.  The rat is a symbol for one of the players (no points for guessing which one.)  The winner was willing to use the rat for their own purposes, killing it and (b)eating it.  While Shambo, who would have let the rat live, was the only person to give the rat a vote at FTC.

So in a way, that first scene was actually part of a winner's edit.

[Vyk]

2 hours ago, SVNBob said:

While Shambo, who would have let the rat live, was the only person to give the rat a vote at FTC.

Actually, John, the rocket scientist, also voted for the rat in question.

[scowl]

I'm rewatching this season which I barely remember because all everyone I knew talked about was that Russell was the best player in the history of Survivor and would surely win.

Best moment so far was when Shambo matter-of-factly said that she didn't catch any fish, but the good news is that there are "hundreds of thousands of fish" in the ocean. The interview with Laura afterwards was classic: "You'll never believe it! There are fish in the ocean!" and covers her mouth in shock. 

[simplyme]

1 hour ago, scowl said:

Best moment so far was when Shambo matter-of-factly said that she didn't catch any fish, but the good news is that there are "hundreds of thousands of fish" in the ocean. The interview with Laura afterwards was classic: "You'll never believe it! There are fish in the ocean!" and covers her mouth in shock. 

Heh. SimplyMom and I just started rewatching this season, too. I'd forgotten Laura M. was on it until that comment.

I will say that I'm enjoying this season after slogging through the Hell that was Tocantins. I loved Taj, but she couldn't save it. We're three episodes in and my mother is horrifyingly fascinated (or possibly fascinatingly horrified) by Russell Hantz. He's helped her put Coach in perspective.

[Daisy]

On 1/27/2016 at 1:15 PM, ljenkins782 said:

I couldn't stand other Russell on either one of his go arounds and I'm not entirely sure why. His overly dramatic voice bugs the shit of me, he makes every simple little thing he says sound like some kind of grand pronouncement and he seemed to have a very healthy dose of arrogance about his leadership role. 

are we talking about Black Russell? 
I can't stand him either. that idiot going on and on how he almost died for this game - like that earns him something. No you dummy, you forgot to drink water. That makes you stupid, not that you love the game that much. 

[Nalan]

17 hours ago, Daisy said:

are we talking about Black Russell? 
I can't stand him either. that idiot going on and on how he almost died for this game - like that earns him something. No you dummy, you forgot to drink water. That makes you stupid, not that you love the game that much. 

He wasn't much better when he returned in Philippines, either.

[scowl]

I just watched the classic episode in which a chicken outsmarts Shambo and escapes, then she tells everyone that she didn't know chickens could fly.

Black Russell: "I'm not calling Shambo stupid...but it's a bird for crying out loud! Something with wings can probably fly."

[Lamb18]

I just started watching this season this morning and I don't know if I can get through it. Well, I will, but having to watch Russell H. in every episode makes me a reluctant watcher. He's worse than I thought he would be. (I did see him in Redemption Island and he seemed like a blubbering mess to me whose whole self-worth was wrapped around winning Survivor.)

As I watched the first episode I kept on thinking, "I've just seen something where this happened or where something like this happened." And I'd think back to the other seasons I just watched. But it wasn't Survivor, it was Big Brother! I don't know if BB Paul watched survivor but his puppetmaster speech and his having an alliance with every house guest is lifted straight from Russell Hantz's strategy book.

Ben is the curly dark-haired guy, right? He did kill that lizard before roasting it over the fire, didn't he? I still don't know who Natalie is and I didn't recognize Laura. I recognized Shambo's name from hearing about her. I recognized Russell Swan, to, since Philippines is the first full season I watched. (I watched bits and pieces from the prior season, which I think was Redemption Island.) Sorry to read that Betsy goes early.

[Lamb18]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 10:44 AM, fishcakes said:

I'm watching this again for the first time since it originally aired, and although it pains me to say this ... Russell Hantz isn't as bad a player as I remember. His social game was much better the first time around. He was a complete dick in the first few days, but mostly in the confessionals and in the middle of the night, pouring out water and burning socks while everyone else slept, so the others weren't really on to him and if they were, he voted them out. But once it got down to the Foa Foa four of him, Natalie, Mick, and Jaison, they were actually a pretty tight group and seemed to genuinely like each other. His misplays were mostly in talking to Galu members, where he'd show his idol to one person after another, trying to get them to flip, and telling each that no one else knew about it, as if they wouldn't talk to each other, but since he actually did get John to flip, it worked despite its stupidity, so I can't fault him too much.

 

I hated this season the first time around but am liking it much better now. Having subsequent shitfests like Nicaragua, One World, and Worlds Apart is probably part of the reason, but mainly it's because it's entertaining to watch Galu lose their 8 - 4 merge majority due to sheer arrogance. I have to give Natalie and Russell equal credit for making that happen, with an assist from Jaison, whose idea it was to target Erik right after the merge. Mick was pretty, but a non-entity. Natalie cracked Galu first, and Russell bulldozed his way through it with a combination of idol play and working Shambo. In my opinion, Natalie was a worthy winner, but Russell would have been too. I think he got worse in HvV because he went into it thinking he'd won Samoa and it made him lose whatever small bit of humility he had about his gameplay and then even worse in RI because his ego wouldn't allow him to admit that he wasn't the greatest. But if he'd won Samoa over Natalie, I wouldn't consider that a travesty. I do still hate him for the way he badmouthed her after she won, though.

I'm progressing through the season - 8 players left. I'm liking it a lot better than I thought I would and, surprisingly, like Russell better than I thought I would. I quoted FISHCAKES above because I so much agree with what he or she said. I couldn't stand Russell the first episode and really while they were still in two tribes. Anyone who dared question him was next to go. But once the tribes merged and Foa Foa was in the minority, it's been really fun to watch how the Foa Foa four managed to stick together and get Galu people voted out. Natalie really worked the Galu team to get the women to vote Erik out. That one is on her. Russell's main contribution is working through Shambo. He's not as dominating as I thought he would be and more fun to watch when he's scrambling. You have to admire the three idols in a row and his ability to scramble and survive. I can see why he was a popular player and considered one of the best. But he is very arrogant and I have a feeling that is what's led to so many people disliking him. So I've gone from dreading the next episode to looking forward to seeing what will happen next.

[Lamb18]

OK, I'm watching the finale and Russell got two votes, not one.  Mick didn't get any.

Wow, that last episode Russell really displayed his overwhelming arrogance. You could tell Mick and Natalie were just sick of it. He was rubbing it in that he was going to win. I imagine people watching who disliked him were cheering in glee. I wonder how much Erik's speech swayed the jury or if they had pretty much decided who they were going to vote for. I thought he had one of the best speeches I ever heard.

[healthnut]

Just watched for the first time, I enjoyed the season but there was definitely too much Russell and too little Galau. Russell was worse in the first two episodes that I had imagined. I honestly don’t know if Russell is really that great of a player or if this crop of castaways were just incredibly stupid. If Russell would’ve won I think that could’ve really changed the show in a bad way. Jury management is so key in Survivor and Russell truly sucked at that, this wasn’t a bitter jury, but Russell wasn’t humble or penitent, that’s a necessity at FTC. 

[Corporal Agarn]

Well, that wasn’t as terrible as I thought it would be. I’m watching my way through and everything post season 8 has been a first time watch for me. All I knew was that Russell was generally despised. Once the merge hit, I was impressed how the Foa Foa stuck together and dismantled the dysfunctional Galu. Russell irritated the crap out of me the first few episodes, then when he voted out Liz, then the last episode when he kept antagonizing Natalie and Mick about FTC. 

I’m still not entirely convinced Brett was actually there the whole time. Did he even speak five words before his IC run?

I like Jaison. Mick was pretty. Natalie was a worthy winner. 

I thought Erik’s FTC speech was going to be Fiji Alex levels of annoying, but it actually turned out pretty darn good!