All Episodes Talk: Celebrating Diversity

[kassa]

I think Cristina speaks Spanish already -- does Elena speak Japanese?  I never thought about it before -- language acquisition doesn't really seem to be impaired by Down syndrome.  I wonder how that relates to acquiring other languages?

[auntjess]

I think some can already do those, and there may be things that one can do and another can't.
To me, Steven and Elena seen to be most advanced, and can they all do money except Megan?

[Brooklynista]

23 minutes ago, auntjess said:

I think some can already do those, and there may be things that one can do and another can't.
To me, Steven and Elena seen to be most advanced, and can they all do money except Megan?

When you really look through the smoke and mirrors and speeches and t-shirts, Megan seems to have the least amount of life skills in the group.  I'm all for building confidence but Kris has really led Megan to believe she can have an independent life, run a business, go to "college" and have babies.  I'm curious to see what happens when/if Megan realizes her mother sold her a bill of goods.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Brooklynista

[ClareWalks]

@Brooklynista you got me thinking about a possible ranking from most to least independent, although I'm sure others here could tweak it:

Steven

Rachel

Cristina

Sean

*GAP*

John

Megan

Elena (I only rank her last because of her emotional issues, but I think she and Megan are tied for life skills)

Edited May 19, 2017 by ClareWalks

[camom]

I wouldn't rank Sean that well.  Part of the problem with "ranking" them is that some are strong in areas that others are weak in and vice versa.  Maybe one can balance a checkbook but can't navigate a store, another may be able to be out and about independently but can't do laundry.  You get the idea.

Steven really is in a different category.  He has mosaic Down syndrome, which means that he doesn't have the extra chromosome in every cell like the others do.  Therefore, he is not as delayed. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by camom

[Brooklynista]

1 hour ago, ClareWalks said:

@Brooklynista you got me thinking about a possible ranking from most to least independent, although I'm sure others here could tweak it:

Steven

Rachel

Cristina

Sean

*GAP*

John

Megan

Elena (I only rank her last because of her emotional issues, but I think she and Megan are tied for life skills)

I would rank Elena higher. Didnt she once live in something akin to assisted living? Aside from occasionally knocking people down (and wouldn't we all like to do that?) She seems closer to having a job and independence than Sean or John.

[Bastet]

Elena lives in a group home; she's basically in the same boat as everyone else in terms of supervision, she's just with counselors rather than her parents.

My perception from what we've seen them do on the show and what we've heard their parents report:  I think Steven and Rachel have the least degree of dependence on others, Megan is the most dependent, and the rest are all somewhere in between, but closer to the dependent end of the scale.  Cristina seems to have the most potential for learning more independent living skills.  With John and Sean, I don't really see it.  With Megan, I'm not sure whether her capacity for such learning is low or whether Kris has babied and sheltered her so much it just seems that way; probably a mixture of both.

[ClareWalks]

Yep, they definitely have different skill sets, I just put a "ranking" based on what we've seen of their potential to live on their own. We haven't seen everything, of course.

[chenoa333]

3 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

When you really look through the smoke and mirrors and speeches and t-shirts, Megan seems to have the least amount of life skills in the group.  I'm all for building confidence but Kris has really led Megan to believe she can have an independent life, run a business, go to "college" and have babies.  I'm curious to see what happens when/if Megan realizes her mother sold her a bill of goods.

What? Babies?  I haven't had the opportunity to watch the new season or much of the older episodes but why would Megans mom even think for one split second that this is a good idea? It's as realistic as telling someone like me who is 5'4" that I can be a supermodel and walk the runway in Paris. And there is NOTHING wrong with not having children for whatever reason...personal choice, age, hereditary medical reasons.  It sounds like this series is becoming too painful for me to watch. 

[camom]

Megan wants to have babies.  Kris has told her that she doesn't think it's a very good idea, but she hasn't really explained to her why it shouldn't happen (at least not that we've seen).  Interesting tidbit...males with DS are generally sterile, but women aren't.

[chenoa333]

2 minutes ago, camom said:

Megan wants to have babies.  Kris has told her that she doesn't think it's a very good idea, but she hasn't really explained to her why it shouldn't happen (at least not that we've seen).  Interesting tidbit...males with DS are generally sterile, but women aren't.

Wow. That is very interesting. I had no idea of the many medical aspects of DS. But it doesn't change the reasoning behind Megan's mother not being realistic and honest with her daughter about why she shouldn't have babies. She should focus on telling Megan the many positive reasons for not having kids. Oprah Winfrey doesn't have any kids by CHOICE. But I haven't walked in the shoes of a parent with a child with DS so I digress.

[Bastet]

32 minutes ago, camom said:

Megan wants to have babies.  Kris has told her that she doesn't think it's a very good idea, but she hasn't really explained to her why it shouldn't happen (at least not that we've seen).

I thought she explained that Megan wouldn't be able to take care of a baby without her help, and she doesn't want to take care of a baby at this stage of her life.  Or did she only say that in a talking head?  I know there was at least one discussion between them about it, while they were walking on the beach.  And maybe one in the car.  But she might not have been as direct with her in those talks; maybe that was only when talking to "us" and the other parents.  But she did get her that doll that cries, needs to be fed, etc. so Megan could get a glimpse of the work involved in taking care of a baby.

[auntjess]

Did anyone on this show, Megan or Christina, get one of those dolls that cry and act like a real baby?
I know that Hannah's (Tiny at 20) mother got her one, which really wasn't  needed at that point, and I thought that Megan needed one.

Edited May 22, 2017 by auntjess
dumb typo

[camom]

You're right, Megan did have one of those dolls for a week I think.  I'd forgotten about that.  

[auntjess]

But nothing came of it, did it?  I don't remember her interacting with it.

[Brooklynista]

They should all be more like John when it comes to babies. John wants no parts of those screaming, pooping beings.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, auntjess said:

Did anyone on this show, Megan or Christina, get one of those dolls that cry and act like a real baby?

Yes, Megan, as I said - Kris got it for her.  As expected, she thought it was fun at first, and then realized how frustrating it is when a crying baby interrupts your sleep and/or you can't figure out why it's crying.  And I think that led to yet another conversation between Kris and Megan (while they were walking the "baby"), but I don't know that Megan ever got it that she's completely incapable of being a mother unless Kris does most of the work for her.

58 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

They should all be more like John when it comes to babies. John wants no parts of those screaming, pooping beings.

I've never liked John more than when he was like, "Get that thing away from me" about babies.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Bastet

[ChaChaSlide]

33 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I've never liked John more than when he was like, "Get that thing away from me" about babies.

He also muttered "aw hell no" when Steven was walking with him and Sean after the gym and confided in them about his crush on Meagan. Thank you John for saying what I was thinking lol

[ClareWalks]

John is frequently the unlikely voice of reason on this show. I so appreciate his anti-baby wisdom :)

[woodscommaelle]

This show might be getting the boot from my DVR.  No longer interesting to me.

[anonymousgirl]

I would say Elena is quite independent given her condition, she cooks , dresses herself, and lives in a group home She did try living independently and it didn't work out for her, I think her mother said it was dangerous because she would go out at night and felt lonely, that and she eats too much on her own ad her group home helps monitor that. One of herdifficulties is her ability to reason and concept of time.  Anyways, that's more than I can say for Megan or even myself :P

 

Heres an interesting article about Elena makes you think a bit:

http://www.discovernikkei.org/en/journal/2016/9/2/elena-ashmore/

Edited May 23, 2017 by anonymousgirl

[auntjess]

Thanks for posting the article.
I'm always rooting for Elena, but I thought Hiromi was a bit self-serving in the article.
She'd be a better match for Steven than Megan.
On Rachel being an actress, I saw that documentary Kelly Goes to Hollywood, or something like that, on a man who works in movies, and Kelly is his younger sister, who has DS, and has always dreamed of being a star, and doing the red carpet bit, and he arranges for it to happen.
It's on some of the cable movie channels sometimes.

[gunderda]

I could watch and entire season just on Christina and her family.

She seems to be the only one that is try to advance in life.  She has actual goals of wanting to get married and live with her future husband and is actually taking classes to do that.  Everyone else seems to be doing things just for the show. 

[auntjess]

She does, but doesn't Christina also have controlling issues?  It seems like she got really jealous over something innocent her boyfriend did.

[Brooklynista]

24 minutes ago, auntjess said:

She does, but doesn't Christina also have controlling issues?  It seems like she got really jealous over something innocent her boyfriend did.

I think  Angel was having a conversation with one of the other girls and Christina got pissed.  She told him he had to go thru her to speak to any woman. THEN she went on to droll and fantasize over her dance partner.

[Bastet]

Yeah, she went full nutter on the poor guy, took off her ring (and made sure to walk around holding it so people would ask about it and she could tell her tale), and basically made him re-propose to make up.  She also proclaimed shit like women have to ask her permission to speak to him, because he's her fiancé, and Rachel very nicely told her she was nuts.

[camom]

The good thing is that Cristina's parents were able to point out that what she was doing was unfair.  They are such wonderful parents!

[Eureka]

Thanks for posting that article about Elena. I find her one of the most interesting ones on the show, partly because of the cultural differences with which she was raised (and how her mom had issues for the same reason). As a writer and editor though...I wish I could have done some work on that article before they published it :)

[camom]

 Sean was acting all hurt because he felt left out, but since the others didn't know he couldn't hear it wasn't their fault.  Loved John telling Sean that all he had to do was let them know he was hard of hearing. His freak out about the surgery is exactly why I have a conservatorship of my daughter.  Without it, Sean's doctors  really can't discuss his care unless he has given permission.  His mom realizing that him being in charge of his own health care could be a problem was a good thing.  I certainly hope a lot of discussion about his options happened off camera.  Glad to see his procedure seems to have worked.

Megan is already talking marriage.  Not surprised that the food seems to be the most important thing about a wedding (typical DS thinking).  Her mom really should teach her how to use a knife; I was afraid she was going to cut her hand.

Rachel's parents are supportive of her dreams but also realistic.  The agent was also supportive but honest.  I wouldn't be surprised if she gets an occasional role.  

Jumping into the shallow end of the pool, I wish Rocco's parents would cut his hair.  

[Former Nun]

32 minutes ago, camom said:

Jumping into the shallow end of the pool, I wish Rocco's parents would cut his hair.

I love Rocco's hair.  For me it's a great look--unique and just darling.  Things will probably change when he has to take care of his own hair, but he's THREE!  

[Former Nun]

Perhaps the "mom on a date," scenario was supposed to be funny, but for me Kris was simply annoying and, as Megan said several times, embarrassing.   Couldn't she just stop her comedy schtick long enough to have a short conversation with Steven's parents, let them go on their real date, and then move to her room?  She could let Steven and Megan know she was available if needed.  In my book her behavior was rude and I hope it wasn't developed/encouraged by the production staff.

On 5/19/2017 at 0:27 PM, Brooklynista said:

I'm curious to see what happens when/if Megan realizes her mother sold her a bill of goods.

I think that either Kris sold the producers a bill of goods or was/is fooling herself.

[Bastet]

I only remembered to tune in for the last twenty minutes or so, and I continue to resent the hell out of Sean and his parents.  Hooray for him getting help with his hearing, truly, but he walks in to the appointment and blatantly comments on someone's physical attributes and the attitude is that this woman should just shrug it off rather than calling it out as wholly inappropriate, just because he has DS.  Hell, no; his disability doesn't negate her rights.

Megan's "This is embarrassing; welcome to my life, America" made me laugh, but also reinforced how inappropriate it is for the parents to sit around cackling as their children try to have a simple date.  It's one thing for people "of sound mind and body" to agree to share their lives with a film crew - whether it knowingly be for vanity, or from a genuine belief a documentary crew can bring certain things to light - but where these folks can't properly consent, I take a hard look at what the parents allow to be shown/volunteer in interviews. 

[Eureka]

4 hours ago, camom said:

 Sean was acting all hurt because he felt left out, but since the others didn't know he couldn't hear it wasn't their fault.  Loved John telling Sean that all he had to do was let them know he was hard of hearing. His freak out about the surgery is exactly why I have a conservatorship of my daughter.  Without it, Sean's doctors  really can't discuss his care unless he has given permission.  His mom realizing that him being in charge of his own health care could be a problem was a good thing.  I certainly hope a lot of discussion about his options happened off camera.  Glad to see his procedure seems to have worked.

Megan is already talking marriage.  Not surprised that the food seems to be the most important thing about a wedding (typical DS thinking).  Her mom really should teach her how to use a knife; I was afraid she was going to cut her hand.

Rachel's parents are supportive of her dreams but also realistic.  The agent was also supportive but honest.  I wouldn't be surprised if she gets an occasional role.  

Jumping into the shallow end of the pool, I wish Rocco's parents would cut his hair.  

Agreed about Rocco's hair.

Also loved how Rachel's dream was handled, they didn't mince words about it could take awhile and even the "is she too old?" conversation was refreshing. She should lose the huge glasses if there's another option because after seeing the photo shoot, I realized they age her a lot.

Megan and Steven's date made me think of being in middle school. But I did feel bad because her mom really was kind of annoying at times. And is she more likely not to have sex if she can't even say the word?

Another shallow note, Cristina always looks so nice, her parents' European fashion sense rubbed off on her :) 

[Ina123]

I found the discussion about conservatorship enlightening. I'm in agreement with Sean's mother. What if he does have a very serious medical problem in the future and Sean refuses treatment or won't listen to them? As it stands, Sean is the decision-maker and the hospital scene tonight showed he should not. I found it interesting that they don't have a conservatorship of Sean because of benefits Sean would lose if they did. I found it even more interesting the way Sean's father cut off the entire conversation. It was like he was saying, "shut up". Clearly, Dad is the one making the choice not to have conservatorship. Dad wants the bennies.

[Eureka]

1 hour ago, Ina123 said:

I found the discussion about conservatorship enlightening. I'm in agreement with Sean's mother. What if he does have a very serious medical problem in the future and Sean refuses treatment or won't listen to them? As it stands, Sean is the decision-maker and the hospital scene tonight showed he should not. I found it interesting that they don't have a conservatorship of Sean because of benefits Sean would lose if they did. I found it even more interesting the way Sean's father cut off the entire conversation. It was like he was saying, "shut up". Clearly, Dad is the one making the choice not to have conservatorship. Dad wants the bennies.

See, I didn't feel that way about his dad at all. I took that to mean he didn't want to have that conversation on camera.

[Cherrio]

Steven does not seem emotionally mature enough to be dating.  I understand he wants female companionship, but it just seems to be at the most superficial level, like he is not capable of much more.   He wants that movie fairy tale.  It is his basis of reality.

 Same with Meghan, but she is always on the fast track. I have noticed the same thing with Sean and Rachel too.  They meet someone and five minutes later they are physical and talking about an instant future.

I would never leave my son alone with Megan. She may giggle about sex, but she seems determined.  

I realize this is a tv show, but there is never a firm stance about some of the behavior. If this show is so real, it would be a very different show.

I don't think encouraging Rachel about acting is a good idea. At least not in the way they are going about it. Just more rejection for her.  Sign her up and better yet, make her sign up for community theater, an acting workshop.

I agree with the above poster about Sean and his behavior.  His sexual harassment, his tantrums and rudeness need to stop. He gets scary at times.  I think the parents were doing anything they could to prevent a full scale mental and physical freakout at the hospital and many other times on the show.

He needs intensive training in a lot of areas.   He will get in trouble and there will be nothing his giggling, born again parents will be able to do about it.

[camom]

Quote

I found it interesting that they don't have a conservatorship of Sean because of benefits Sean would lose if they did.

The only thing mentioned is that certain housing would not be available if he was conserved.  I assume those are independent living situations, which Sean probably couldn't handle anyway.  For any housing I am aware of (like group homes) it wouldn't make any difference.  A conservatorship won't affect any other benefits.  And I agree that his dad really doesn't want to do it.  When Sean told the woman in the office that she was cute, his parents should have immediately told him that he was being inappropriate.  Some day he is going to find himself in a heap of trouble.

Quote

I don't think encouraging Rachel about acting is a good idea. At least not in the way they are going about it. Just more rejection for her.  Sign her up and better yet, make her sign up for community theater, an acting workshop.

There are plenty of acting classes in southern CA that Rachel can go to, and who knows, she might already be doing that.  It looks like performing is something she has always enjoyed, so this is not a new idea.  There are quite a few people with DS in the area who are actors.  Only a couple make a living at it, but that's true with most actors.  If she can handle the rejection that is bound to come, she will have a lot of fun with occasionally getting to work as an actor.  

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, Eureka said:

See, I didn't feel that way about his dad at all. I took that to mean he didn't want to have that conversation on camera.

Oh, I totally agree but it was quick and wifey clearly wanted the guardianship.

8 minutes ago, camom said:

The only thing mentioned is that certain housing would not be available if he was conserved.  I assume those are independent living situations, which Sean probably couldn't handle anyway.  For any housing I am aware of (like group homes) it wouldn't make any difference.  A conservatorship won't affect any other benefits.

Granted, I'd have to watch again but I thought he said "benefits".

[camom]

My daughter has DS and is conserved.  It does not affect her benefits at all.

[Eureka]

37 minutes ago, camom said:

My daughter has DS and is conserved.  It does not affect her benefits at all.

Camom, does she live with you? (Not asking in relation to conservatorship, just curious) 

46 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

Oh, I totally agree but it was quick and wifey clearly wanted the guardianship.

 

I agree with you that she clearly wanted it. And you may be right that he doesn't, and if that's the case, probably if she had pushed for the conversation right then, we would have seen a fight. I don't want to watch that stuff, you know?

On a kind of related note, I thought it was very funny when Megan asked "What is this, Jerry Springer?" I think she (Megan) is an interesting person - like any other person, she has her strengths and weaknesses. It's clear to me that life skills are not her forte and she has a little diva thing going on that personally, I do not find cute, but she actually has a very good sense of humor at times. 

Edited May 24, 2017 by Eureka

[ClareWalks]

10 hours ago, camom said:

Her mom really should teach her how to use a knife; I was afraid she was going to cut her hand.

I thought the same thing and was quite relieved when I looked closer that it was a butter knife! But still! Since I have no idea if Megan knows the difference between using a sharp knife and using a dull one.

Totally agree with you re: Rocco's hair. I know it's just my personal taste, but I don't like it when very little boys have "girl haircuts" (transgender children aside of course), unless those parents don't mind constantly saying "he's a boy, actually" without sounding pissy about it (some parents do androgynous styling for their kids, then get angry when you guess the gender wrong). Plus I did wonder if his parents *always* dress him up like a little hipster doll or if that was just for TV.

Edited May 24, 2017 by ClareWalks
of is not if.

[camom]

Quote

Camom, does she live with you? (Not asking in relation to conservatorship, just curious) 

Yes, she lives with me.  She lived in a group home for several years, but then asked to move back with me.  She wanted more privacy.  It works well mainly because we each have our own bathrooms. LOL

[auntjess]

8 hours ago, Cherrio said:

I would never leave my son alone with Megan. She may giggle about sex, but she seems determined.  

Yes, she was pretty agressive, and lotion or cream in her "date basket?"  The preview looks like Steven has been scared off.
Kris was annoying,  but she was right to stay.
I thought the program guide said Kris decides to get her own place, but I sure hope not.  No way is Megan ready to live alone.
 

7 hours ago, camom said:

When Sean told the woman in the office that she was cute, his parents should have immediately told him that he was being inappropriate.  Some day he is going to find himself in a heap of trouble.

Yes.  He should have been being told this for years.  And if Sean loses no benefits, I don't see a downside to conservatorship, although I suppose it could affect how the parents could leave their estate.  Would they be subject to a harassment suit for Sean's behavior, if they had total conservatorship?  But they really need it for medical issues at the least.
 
Loved Rocco.  His hair does look like a girl's, but he's so cute.  It's nice they're expanding the cast, if that's what they're doing.

[Brooklynista]

It seems like Megan's ideas of sex and love come from Jennifer Aniston romcoms.  Sex is probably a scene of a kiss that fades to black and then curtains blowing in the breeze the next morning.

[chenoa333]

I don't watch this show often due to my work schedule however, I remember Megan's mom saying ( first season maybe?) that Megan's father left them soon after Megan was born. That's traumatic enough with delivering a normal baby...but a woman being abandoned by the father of your child that was born with DS? That's a $hitload of emotions to be left to deal with. Does anyone know anything about Megan's father? 

[Eureka]

1 hour ago, Brooklynista said:

It seems like Megan's ideas of sex and love come from Jennifer Aniston romcoms.  Sex is probably a scene of a kiss that fades to black and then curtains blowing in the breeze the next morning.

That sounds like it matches Steven's romantic movie ideas of dating too.

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, Eureka said:

That sounds like it matches Steven's romantic movie ideas of dating too.

Not only are movies his frame of reference, he specifically cites Titanic.  I absolutely loathe the god-awful Jack and Rose storyline the film is centered around.

49 minutes ago, chenoa333 said:

I don't watch this show often due to my work schedule however, I remember Megan's mom saying ( first season maybe?) that Megan's father left them soon after Megan was born. That's traumatic enough with delivering a normal baby...but a woman being abandoned by the father of your child that was born with DS? That's a $hitload of emotions to be left to deal with. Does anyone know anything about Megan's father? 

He was on the show last season.  It came across to me that he was there for the cameras, not his daughter.

He split not long after Megan was born, yes, and seems to have had only sporadic presence in Megan's life (and certainly has not taken care of her, more like meeting up for lunch and talking to her on the phone).  He has another family, that season one conversation made it seem like Megan barely knows, but when he made his appearance, he talked like they (not him, they) would help take care of Megan if something happened to Kris.  (If I were Megan, I would not hold my breath on that one, and, indeed, Kris certainly isn't banking on it it.)  Kris, to her eternal credit, makes a clear effort not to badmouth him to Megan; in fact, she assures Megan her father loves her.

I mentioned after the episode where all the parents discussed their plans for who would care for the kids when they're gone or otherwise no longer able to that I was surprised Kris was the only one there alone.  With the divorce rate what it is, it would be surprising to put any random group of people that size together and have all but one person be in a long-term marriage, but I would think the stress of having a child with DS would lead to an even greater divorce rate.

[Former Nun]

10 hours ago, camom said:

When Sean told the woman in the office that she was cute, his parents should have immediately told him that he was being inappropriate.

Sean has probably been told that HUNDREDS of times!   Additionally, a DS person might be corrected "immediately," and too often the "object of affection" will say, "Oh, that's okay."  "Don't worry about it."  "I think you're cute too."  It's a lose-lose situation.  At some point in his life someone told him (joking?) that he's a ladies' man and that just sticks with him.  These kids/adults have been beaten up for mildly inappropriate behaviors and even then they don't stop... because they can't.  I'm disappointed in some advice and judgment shown on this forum (as if these were our average young adults), but also glad the show is allowing so many viewers at least a bit of insight on what it's like for the DS people, their families, and their educators and caretakers.  Imagine meeting your beautiful baby and eventually figuring out you will be handling problems, comments, and unfair judgments your/his entire life--problems that loom larger as the years go on.

[Bastet]

39 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Sean has probably been told that HUNDREDS of times!  

Given the way his parents laugh about his behavior, I doubt that very much.  There are plenty of things the various parents talk about struggling to teach their kids and how the DS makes those lessons difficult, but this doesn't fall into that category.  Sean's parents don't lament the fact he consistently speaks of and behaves with women in various improper ways, they laugh.  Even allowing for the "this is a heavily-edited and increasingly manufactured show" factor, the ratio of "Sean needs to learn some boundaries" to "Ha ha, isn't Sean the 'Ladies Man' adorable?" reactions and outright commentary is pitifully weighted towards the latter.

[camom]

Sean's parents do in fact think his "ladies man" persona is cute as a button.  He has rarely been given boundaries.   

As the parent of someone with DS, my main goal was to teach my daughter appropriate behavior so that she would be accepted in society.  I want people to look forward to being around her, not dread it.  That doesn't mean that she always behaves the way I would like, but my years of effort definitely paid off.  It's really almost too late for Sean.  It takes people with DS longer to learn, and that includes learning behaviors.  And once they learn them it's hard to get them to "unlearn" them.  His flirting behavior is pretty entrenched, so it would take quite a bit of concentrated effort on the part of him and those around him to change it.