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S02.E13: The Heart Is a Dumb Dumb

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in You're The Worst [V]

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

I thought that was a pretty terrific finale. 

 

After last week, I kind of suspected this season was building up to saying those three little words so I wasn't surprised it happened but I was pleased.  And I did like how it happened and the performances. 

 

I also think Chris Geere was hilarious in this episode from his bug eyes when he realized that Gretchen didn't take medication and the various stages of drunk Jimmy.  There was something so adorable with the way he said that Nina was 'aight' when Gretchen was raving about her beauty.  BTW, I shouldn't have felt that the bar scene between Nina and Gretchen was hilarious because if Gretchen had been a man, I wouldn't have been laughing but dammit...I was laughing when she was asking Nina for a kiss. 

 

Man, I don't know how I feel about Paul and Lindsay.  Can I really watch them try to make their miserable marriage work?  I can't imagine Lindsay as a mother.  Yet, I do think she knew Becca would spill the beans because that's who Becca is. 

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I am enough of a sap to think Edgar and Dorothy broke up.  (In my defense, she's a guest star and it did seem like a season finale would be the time to write her out...  And also, it looks like Paul really did break up with Amy.  I hope she comes back, though.)

 

Lindsay's last scene pretty much underlined how doomed she and Paul are.  Remember "Equally Dead Inside"?  "I'm not a sidekick! I'm Beyoncé, not Kelly Rowland. If I'm on a motorcycle, I'm driving the motorcycle, not riding in that shitty little side motorcycle thingy for poor people and dogs."

 

Becca: How much money?

Vernon: So much money.

 

Oh, Vernon.  What a fantastic scene between Paul and Vernon though.

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CMH1981

CMH1981

I loved this episode, it covered/confirmed everything we have all talked about regarding Gretchen and her use of medication.  

 

I loved the end scene, it would have been the perfect series finale if we didn't already know it was renewed for a third season.

 

Lindsay and Paul singing was great, but I felt bad for her at the end b/c she still doesn't love him like he loves her.  I forgot about the "side-car" quote, so wow, great callback.  If anything they should have replayed that quote over the scene of her horrified look when she saw the side-car and the ride home.

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Eyes High

Eyes High

(edited)

I also loved the shitty sidecar callback.

 

I'm glad we finally got an explanation as to Gretchen's treatment. It's still some bullshit that this was never raised before by anyone prior to this episode, even when Gretchen was virtually catatonic. The reason it was never raised before, I'm guessing, is so that Gretchen wouldn't have to stall for several episodes on the issue of getting treatment while marinating in her depression and getting huffy about anyone not being 100% on board with her behaviour until she made her big decision in the finale to seek treatment. Still bullshit.

 

With all that said, it's so Gretchen that she wouldn't seek treatment not because she can't afford it (fair enough, she might have trouble getting coverage), not because she's worried about the side-effects of medication (fair enough, they can be brutal), but because she doesn't want to lose her "edge." It makes her actions earlier in the season--railing that she doesn't need to be fixed and that other people just need to accept her, wailing about how she can't feel anything--look so, so, sooooooo much worse.

 

I am enough of a sap to think Edgar and Dorothy broke up.

 

Friends had this same plotline, though. Chandler and Monica have a fight, and Chandler, never having had a healthy adult relationship before, assumes that they broke up, and Monica sweetly reassures him that it was just a fight. (This is particularly annoying given that Stephen Falk has made snotty comments about not being like those other sitcoms in interviews.) Not only did Friends do it better, when you're reduced to cribbing plotlines from Friends, well...If I wanted to watch Friends, I'd watch Friends. What I like about You're the Worst is the crazy stuff, the truly dark stuff, the complicated stuff, the psychologically interesting stuff, the real stuff. Don't give me warmed-over cliche romcom treaments involving the living embodiment of twee (Dorothy) or thinly-disguised after school special treatments of depression. (Dorothy is far more irritatingly twee than Jess on New Girl, and that's a sentence I never thought I'd write about any fictional character, ever.) I've seen it elsewhere many times, and I've seen it done better many times. Give me something that never pulls its punches. Give me truly dark humour, not sitcommy silliness. Give me something brutal and beautiful.

 

I became interested in Stephen Falk's work not only because of the TWOP connection but also because he wrote some of the most beautifully wrenching episodes of Weeds. That show was terrible in so many ways, especially towards the end, and he wrote some spectacularly terrible episodes, too--I think Weeds is a pretty good example of the dangers of letting writers do whatever they want--but some of the episodes he wrote were so sad, so poignant, and so real, while also being deeply funny. You were screaming at your television but only because you realized that no matter how sad the things he wrote, they couldn't play out any other way. (However, Weeds did cop out at the end and plastered a mostly-happy ending on a show where that ending really wasn't earned.) I haven't seen anything as good as the best of what he did on Weeds in You're the Worst, and it's frustrating to me to see critical praise lavished on something that to me so often seems subpar.

 

...I dunno, maybe this is an American thing. British comedy tends to be sharper, nastier, and, dare I say it, funnier. American comedy tends to be softer, warmer, and cuddlier. American reboots of British comedies tend to be sweeter and happier. The Office UK vs. The Office US. The Thick of It vs. Veep. 

Edited by Eyes High
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Friends had this same plotline, though. Chandler and Monica have a fight, and Chandler, never having had a healthy adult relationship before, assumes that they broke up, and Monica sweetly reassures him that it was just a fight. (This is particularly annoying given that Stephen Falk has made snotty comments about not being like those other sitcoms in interviews.)

In fairness, it often feels like shows go the other way, also cliched, and in fact Falk almost did that too. From his interview with Alan Sepinwall:

 

Stephen Falk: I read your piece on the (last) episode about worrying that I was going to break them up. I was very dumb and I did have them break up. I don't even remember if it's draft, but at the last minute I was like, "Wow I'm just falling into a lot of stupid bad writing TV traps here." They get in a misunderstanding, and it's a big one, but a misunderstanding, and suddenly their relationship is over. And now the audience is going to never like trust me again if I introduce a character. A lot of TV shows, just as a viewer, taking away my job, I watch and I go, "Well, that's not really how people behave." And so I did it to myself as I stopped and went, "Oh, wait that's not how people behave." If they like each other, and I told the audience as a showrunner you should care about this couple, then to just have them break up because it's the end of the season and because Jimmy is always ruining Edgar's life, would be kind of a dick move on my part and just bad writing. And so at the last minute we pivoted and we had him follow her and had her give voice to just that fallacy that I had almost put on those poor characters in that show. So yeah, I thank you for calling me out on it before I even did it.

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Traveller519

Traveller519

I'm glad that they shot down the notion of Lindsay getting pregnant from the sperm she kept. Though I would have liked if there was some more mystery to who it could be. The possibility of it being Sam would have been more entertaining.

 

And I hate seeing Paul apart from Amy, who he has a real emotional connection with, for some baby that I don't think either he or Lindsay really want.

 

I am ready to see Edgar grow out of his Jimmy relationship too. I hope they focus on more of that next season.

 

Bravo on a terrific season on the whole. Very brave.

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(edited)

I forgot to say last night:

 

* How weird and fun to see the VFX for Paul's life-blogging on his phone expand into a very sci-fi visualisation expanding several feet beyond his phone in all directions, complete with the practical blue glow on his face.

 

* McLeod is a very competent singer.  (edited because I don't know why I can't remember his last name correctly.)

 

* Becca truly is the worst.

 

* I'd semi-forgotten the weirdness of Vernon's "born dead" anecdote so I went back and rewatched that part from that episode and it was still great.

Edited by arc
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whiporee

whiporee

(edited)

 

...I dunno, maybe this is an American thing. British comedy tends to be sharper, nastier, and, dare I say it, funnier. American comedy tends to be softer, warmer, and cuddlier. American reboots of British comedies tend to be sweeter and happier. The Office UK vs. The Office US. The Thick of It vs. Veep.

 

I might say that British sitcoms are more based on people being assholes than American ones, or maybe a British audience has more tolerance for watching assholes than an American one does. I thought the British office was ONLY funny for its assholishness, while the American version had funny scenes that weren't only about people being jerks. That's what has impressed me about YTW this season -- they've been willing to be nice, where Britcoms would have had them maintain their same characteristics throughout the run. 

 

I'd even suggest that's the big difference is that American shows are willing to let their characters grow, and British shows are willing to let them stay the same. It's a different overall mentality when it comes to entertainment. I don't mind assholishness, but I don't need it slammed on me every moment I'm watching, and I'd like to see people be more than just their punchlines. 

 

On to your Friends comment, I remember that plotline. The difference is that on YTW, it got two minutes of screen time -- on Friends it was what the show was about. That's the difference between the shows, at least as far as I'm concerned. 

 

As for the episode, I don't think it could have been better. Every moment felt earned, even something like Vern bringing the cake over to Becca. Just a great end to a great season. Glad it's coming back. 

Edited by whiporee
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Eyes High

Eyes High

(edited)
I might say that British sitcoms are more based on people being assholes than American ones, or maybe a British audience has more tolerance for watching assholes than an American one does. I thought the British office was ONLY funny for its assholishness, while the American version had funny scenes that weren't only about people being jerks. That's what has impressed me about YTW this season -- they've been willing to be nice, where Britcoms would have had them maintain their same characteristics throughout the run.

 

I don't think it's a fair assessment to say that the British Office was only funny for its assholishness. The most iconic moment of the British Office is David Brent's dance; he has assholish motivations (a childish need to outdo Neil and to be the centre of attention), but the humour is based in the absurdity of the dance moves, not on his assholery. To me, one of the funniest bits in The Office UK was Tim's "Form an orderly queue, ladies" speech. It was bone-dry and cutting, as he calmly and bluntly lists all the reasons why he would be unappealing to possible romantic prospects, but it wasn't assholish. The humour has the sad ring of truth to it--Tim's probably not wrong--but it's so funny because he's so matter of fact about his bedroom having seen a "lot of action" ("mainly dusting").

 

I'd even suggest that's the big difference is that American shows are willing to let their characters grow, and British shows are willing to let them stay the same.

 

I think British comedies tend to be more aware of the grim reality that characters growing and maturing isn't terribly funny in of itself. The UK show Coupling begrudgingly showed characters growing and maturing, but the funniest bits had to do not with the characters maturing but with their succumbing to their worst impulses: Steve's over the top rants, Sally's paralyzing insecurities, Patrick's cheerful callousness, Susan's self-righteous vanity, etc. etc. The humour of AbFab is predicated on the premise that these characters are incorrigible and unchangeable in their ridiculousness; they will never "grow up," since the moment they do, the humour well will run dry. Who wants to see Edina and Patsy get sober and renounce their hard-drinking, selfish, narcissistic, mutually enabling ways? No one, that's who.

 

In addition to that, there's allowing characters to grow and change, and then softening them and muting their more awful characteristics to the point that they become unrecognizable given their former selves. I find that American comedies are more likely to introduce characters and then have them act in ways that are out of character to suit the contrivances of the plot. Sometimes they pass this off as "maturing," but it's usually just inconsistent writing. I find that British comedies are more likely to keep characters the way that they are and follow character traits through to their logical conclusions, even if this doesn't result in warm and fuzzy outcomes. It was completely in character for British Office Dawn to reject Tim and go off to the States with Lee; it hurt like a son of a bitch for the audience, but it was absolutely what that character would do, given her low self-esteem, need for security, and her domineering boyfriend.

 

American comedies will usually go for the warm, cuddly moments, which means that we have many comedies which are popular not because they're funny, but because of that warm, fuzzy feeling viewers get when watching them. Parks & Recreation, a show which celebrated optimism and character growth, was not particularly funny; people watched it for other reasons. However, nothing in the entirety of Parks & Recreation was as funny as Patsy railing at Edina's daughter Saffy that she had urged Edina to get an abortion: "ABORT! ABORT! ABORT! Flush it down the pan! Bring me...A KNITTING NEEDLE." Of course it's awful. That's the point!

 

There are American comedies where nobody learns anything or changes. Seinfeld was a good example, and I will always respect it for refusing to allow the characters to grow or mature, because the minute you do that, I think, the comedy takes a big hit. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia is another example.

 

To bring it back to You're the Worst, I think the show is guilty of both favouring maturity and change at the expense of humour and of distorting characters to fit the needs of the plot. The show wants us to buy that Lindsay is a vapid, fun-loving, flighty party girl who bonded with Gretchen through a shared love of crazy partying and wild times aaaaaaand a supportive, devoted friend who soberly stuck by Gretchen in the past when her depression hit hard. That's just not who Lindsay is--the Lindsay they've written would have ditched Gretchen the second she became boring and serious--but they've written Lindsay that way to suit the contrivances. If you're going to write Lindsay that way, write her to act and behave in ways that are consistent with that character. Don't pull your fucking punches!

 

Also, going away from the meta writing angle, my observation in real life is that people don't really change past a certain point. People don't deal with their shit by and large. People don't have epiphanies that they need to do better, and, if so, they almost never follow through on them. Mean people stay mean. Shitty boyfriends/girlfriends don't become less shitty. British comedies appear to be aware of this as well. 

 

It's a different overall mentality when it comes to entertainment. I don't mind assholishness, but I don't need it slammed on me every moment I'm watching, and I'd like to see people be more than just their punchlines.

 

It depends on what you prioritize. You're the Worst has prided itself on wallowing in its characters' awfulness, so it's depressing to see the show pulling its punches and demanding that the characters grimly march towards maturity and adulthood the way they do on so many American comedies. It feels a bit like a bit of a bait and switch given that this show was sold as celebrating the worst in people, and I think even the most positive reviews this season have noticed that the show hasn't been terribly funny. Edgar/Dorothy has been described as sweet, cute, and uplifting, but it has not been described as hilarious, because it isn't. Ditto for the depression storyline; even the most positive reviews have pointed to the lack of humour.

 

On to your Friends comment, I remember that plotline. The difference is that on YTW, it got two minutes of screen time -- on Friends it was what the show was about. That's the difference between the shows, at least as far as I'm concerned.

 

If you're selling your show as a super edgy romcom that's not like those other network romcoms, which are supposedly so vanilla and no cliched, you'd better take care not to crib plotlines from them. The writers have no business talking shit about how awful other sitcoms are when they use the same shitty tropes as the shows they're supposedly so far above, or talking about how wonderful and unique their depression storyline is when there are many other shows that have done it before and done it better. Put up or shut up, I say.

Edited by Eyes High
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Texasmom1970

Texasmom1970

 

As for the episode, I don't think it could have been better. Every moment felt earned, even something like Vern bringing the cake over to Becca. Just a great end to a great season. Glad it's coming back.

Agree with you 100 percent I thought it was perfect. Especially the last scene the love declaration was fitting forr their characters, not overly saccharine it fit perfectly. I so love this show!

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

I have been pretty concerned about this shows direction, and how its been handling the depression story, and how it has seemingly lost its sense of fun, but damn it if this episode didn't end on a great note. 

 

There were so many interesting emotional beats, even for a joke character like Vernon. This show, for the issues I have had with how they have changed genres a bit this season, and how I think the topic of depression could have been handled better, has always succeeded in making these weirdo characters human and understandable, no matter their weird quirks. I can always admire them for that.

 

I was sure we were going to end on a Gretchen/Jimmy break up, and I am still surprised instead we got, not only Gretchen decided to get on medication, but an I Love You. Its a weirdly touching ending for such a cynical show, but its feels really earned. If that was where the show ended, I would be sad, but fulfilled. 

 

But now, I am really interested to see where the show goes from here. 

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It depends on what you prioritize. You're the Worst has prided itself on wallowing in its characters' awfulness, so it's depressing to see the show pulling its punches and demanding that the characters grimly march towards maturity and adulthood the way they do on so many American comedies. It feels a bit like a bit of a bait and switch given that this show was sold as celebrating the worst in people

For me, YTW has had heart ever since the pilot, when Gretchen and Jimmy realize that there's a connection between them that's deeper than just a one night stand between two awful people. The entire show has been about these people in a state of delayed or arrested development slowly growing up. Lexi's statement in "LCD Soundsystem" about whether or not holding on to your cool 20s is worthwhile and authentic is like the thesis statement for the show.  That's not pulling punches. Pulling punches would be pretending two 30 yos pretending to be 23 isn't sad in its own way.

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inyourmarrow

inyourmarrow

(edited)

For me, YTW has had heart ever since the pilot, when Gretchen and Jimmy realize that there's a connection between them that's deeper than just a one night stand between two awful people. The entire show has been about these people in a state of delayed or arrested development slowly growing up. Lexi's statement in "LCD Soundsystem" about whether or not holding on to your cool 20s is worthwhile and authentic is like the thesis statement for the show.  That's not pulling punches. Pulling punches would be pretending two 30 yos pretending to be 23 isn't sad in its own way.

I agree completely with this. I've always felt that what makes YTW feel so authentic to me is that, at one point or another in our lives, we always feel/act our very worst when we're trying so hard to be our best. That is life, at least how I've experienced it. I've never experienced depression like Gretchen, at least not clinically, but I felt and understood her self-loathing, immobility, and (at times) petulance. I'm an only child, creative professional, so I definitely exhibit the narcissism of Jimmy. And I'm basically Lindsay, albeit a bit more self-aware.

 

I'm also one who doesn't really think the show's tone has changed so much as the show is growing and evolving in the same way that its characters are growing and evolving. Its cynicism and dark humor has never felt lost to me either, even in the thick of Gretchen's unraveling. I'm so happy the show has another season. And this finale was so subtle and felt perfectly earned. Like Sunday Funday, every season finale should include a musical element during a Barbara backyard themed-party.

 

The final ILY moment was excellent. All I have to say about Chris and Aya in that moment is FACES. FACES. FACES. I love their faces. 

Edited by inyourmarrow
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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

I've comforted a friend or two who have had fights with their boyfriends and wondered if it meant they were done.  It's an experience more than one person has had. As long as TV shows write about life, they're going to cover similar ground. It doesn't mean they're "cribbing" or "copying."    And just because the creator wants to do something different doesn't mean he doesn't respect or is denigrating the thing he wants to be different from.  I haven't read every single word he has said but I've never gotten the impression he didn't like TV. He used to recap TV.  Even if it was full of snark, that's usually someone one does out of love for TV.  Not hate.

 

It was completely in character for British Office Dawn to reject Tim and go off to the States with Lee; it hurt like a son of a bitch for the audience, but it was absolutely what that character would do, given her low self-esteem, need for security, and her domineering boyfriend.

Sure.  But she came back.  Even the original The Office went with sentimentality when it pleased them.

 

Parks & Recreation, a show which celebrated optimism and character growth, was not particularly funny; people watched it for other reasons.

Parks & Rec was funny.  A lot of people watched it because it was funny.  In fact, that's the only reason I watched it.  I never connected much with the sentimentality of the show.  If I did, I would probably love it more. 
 

However, nothing in the entirety of Parks & Recreation was as funny as Patsy railing at Edina's daughter Saffy that she had urged Edina to get an abortion: "ABORT! ABORT! ABORT! Flush it down the pan! Bring me...A KNITTING NEEDLE." Of course it's awful. That's the point!

Eddie and Pats were cartoons.  Hilarious cartoons but cartoons.  I love this style too.  There's enough room in this world for both kinds of comedy. 

 

This show is a romcom so there were always going to be characters with different layers to them.  It works for me. It feels more real than overly sentimental stories or overly caustic stories.  Even the assholes I know have people who love them and people they love.  And sometimes they shock me how sweet and decent they can be to those people while not giving a damn about anyone else.

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Eyes High

Eyes High

(edited)
Sure.  But she came back.  Even the original The Office went with sentimentality when it pleased them.

 

She left in the Season 2 finale. It was only in the Christmas special that she returned and hooked up with Tim (the same Christmas special where David Brent improbably secured a lovely woman who wasn't repulsed by his awfulness), and for all the fans who squeed at this the appropriate amount, there were critics who expressed disappointment that The Office was backing away from the beautiful bleakness of the Season 2 finale in favour of sentimental pap like getting David a girl like some sort of fucking prize and hooking up Tim and Dawn, and they were right. The writers pulled their punches, and the show ultimately suffered, just as You're the Worst is suffering now from (among other things) a refusal to follow character traits through to their logical conclusions, and a need to distort characters to fit the plot.

 

Eddie and Pats were cartoons.  Hilarious cartoons but cartoons.  I love this style too.  There's enough room in this world for both kinds of comedy.

 

YTW is full of cartoons, much like Weeds, the show where Stephen Falk cut his teeth as a TV writer. Lindsay is the most cartoonish character I've seen on TV in some time who wasn't an actual cartoon. Becca is the essence of cartoonish awfulness. (Do you think it's a coincidence that their actresses do a lot of cartoon voice work?) Even the leads are very cartoonish, despite their hipster patina: Jimmy's mustache disguise in of itself is as cartoonishly silly as anything Patsy and Edina ever got up to doing. YTW has some good qualities, but a masterwork of subtle characterization it is not, no more than Weeds was.

 

Parks & Rec was funny.  A lot of people watched it because it was funny.  In fact, that's the only reason I watched it.  I never connected much with the sentimentality of the show.  If I did, I would probably love it more.

 

I appreciate that that's your opinion, but I specifically recall the Parks & Recreation eulogies floating around saying, over and over again, "It wasn't funny, true, but the show was so great because of the boundless optimism of blah blah blah, the warmth of the connection between the characters, the show's strong commitment to feminism, etc. etc. etc." I even recall fans ruefully admitting even as they praised the show that it didn't make them laugh. I see the same sorts of reviews of Brooklyn 99: sweetness, warmth, an admirable commitment to diversity, etc. compensating for lack of humour. The sentiment seemed to be "Great show, shame about the comedy."

 

For a show like AbFab, no one cares about the potential of the characters for change or growth, or about the values stressed by the show. They only care about one thing and one thing only: is the show funny? If that's the only thing that matters for the audience, then you have to bring the funny, which AbFab and similar shows brought in spades. If you are as a writer incapable of bringing the funny, then you have to turn to other stuff, like "serious" material, the relationships between the characters, "growth," "maturity," and all that, shit that nobody cares about as long as the show makes them laugh. Nobody cared about the Seinfeld characters growing or changing because they were so funny that it didn't matter.

 

All the YTW writers had to do was bring the funny in Season 2. That's all that they had to do. They couldn't even do that. If they could truly bring the funny, no one in the audience would care about the writers making them feel warm and fuzzy, about the show bringing the characters towards maturity, or about the material deeply resonating with their own struggles with mental illness or marital breakdown; they'd be too busy laughing to care. However, the YTW writers appeared to have ascertained at some point, either individually or collectively, that they were incapable of writing pure comedy and bringing said funny. Thus the introduction of self-serious, dramatic, award bait material like this depression storyline, where the writers appear to be screaming "Look at how important and realistic this is. Look at it! Now look at Aya Cash crying. Isn't she acting so goddamn hard? You're probably thinking you should be throwing some awards at this important, realistic storyline. Did we mention it's important and realistic? Because it's important. And realistic." It's sad to see. I'd like to see the writers have some faith in their ability to amuse without worrying about falling back on anything else.

 

Even the critics most kindly disposed towards YTW's second season have basically said the same thing they said about Parks & Rec: "Great show. Shame about the comedy." Given the way that they wrote the depression storyline, the writers appear to be acknowledging that the show has failed as a comedy. Whether it has succeeded as something else is open to debate.

Edited by Eyes High
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Qoass

Qoass

 

What a fantastic scene between Paul and Vernon though.

 

Ooh, that scene was so cringe-worthy (in a good way) that i was glad I had the distraction of noticing the same two books fall off the back of the toilet three times thanks to the editing.

 

I had forgotten about the side-car comment and even the born-dead thing.  I started missing the show the second the closing credits rolled so I think I would like to watch a marathon starting with the pilot sometime soon.

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Deanie87

Deanie87

(edited)

For me, YTW has had heart ever since the pilot, when Gretchen and Jimmy realize that there's a connection between them that's deeper than just a one night stand between two awful people. The entire show has been about these people in a state of delayed or arrested development slowly growing up. Lexi's statement in "LCD Soundsystem" about whether or not holding on to your cool 20s is worthwhile and authentic is like the thesis statement for the show.  That's not pulling punches. Pulling punches would be pretending two 30 yos pretending to be 23 isn't sad in its own way.

 

I totally agree and I have always seen it as a different take on a relationship/romantic comedy.  Its what you get when two people who reject every notion of romance and sentimentality (either through self-preservation or because they think they are "too cool" for it) and then find themselves facing it.  I would probably still like it if everyone were flat out monsters because it is funny, but the moments of sweetness or "romance" here mean that much more to me because it often has to be pulled kicking and screaming from the characters.

 

Comedy and humor are one of the most subjective topics around.  Parks and Rec was sweet, and Leslie, Ben and Ann weren't a laugh a minute, granted.  But personally, I can't understand how some people don't find Ron Swanson, Perd Hapley, Jean Ralphio, or Andy Dwyer all hilarous (all characters from P & R for the uninitiated), but like I said it is subjective.  After seeing the whole season of YTW, I appreciate the LCD Soundsystem and A Rapidly Mutating Virus episodes, even if I didn't really enjoy them.  I don't need this show to be funny all of the time, but my favorite part of the show, and my main reason for watching, is the interactions of Jimmy and Gretchen, whether they are sweet, horrible or somewhere in between.  So I just don't enjoy the episodes that don't have that nearly as much.

Edited by Deanie87
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Ottis

Ottis

I loved this episode, it covered/confirmed everything we have all talked about regarding Gretchen and her use of medication.

 

 

Unfortunately, it took the most annoying and bullshitty way possible to get there. It felt like the show was echoing the boards every time Jimmy brought up, "No medication?!" That should have happened 3-4 episodes ago.

 

No idea what Lindsey is doing. Why tell anyone except Gretchen? Especially at whatever the hell that party was (and The League had, the same night, an episode featuring the same kind of party - is this a real thing?). I could see it if she was somehow feeling like she missed out on something by not having kids, but no sign of that as far as I can tell.

 

The bartender is the most well-adjusted character on the show.

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

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Especially at whatever the hell that party was (and The League had, the same night, an episode featuring the same kind of party - is this a real thing?).

Do you mean the "revealing the baby's gender to everyone by cutting into a cake" kind of party? Because those are definitely a real thing for several years. I don't remember when it started being a really popular/expected thing (but I know my cousin had one before her first kid was born and that was five years ago, so at least that long!).

Heh, or do you mean a trash juice hidden in popcorn containers and karaoke kind of party? Because those have always been a thing!

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ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

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(edited)

If it didn't happen on the internet, it never actually happened so 2008 it is! Seriously, imagine the intern who was told to spend a day googling baby gender parties.

I'm just glad that Becca's cake wasn't one of those pregnant torso cakes (I also dislike the baby butt cakes, but the baby coming out of the vag cakes are the worst (there are even worse ones, but I'll leave it at that)!

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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inyourmarrow

inyourmarrow

Speaking of, when Vernon brought the cake over to Becca, and they cut it - just the two of them - that was a really great moment. And I know they're only supporting players, but it also felt like very earned humility for the couple. Since the beginning of the series, they've both played themselves up to be the couple with the life that everyone should aspire to, Becca always rubbing it in Lindsay's face and being condescending towards Jimmy and Gretchen; Vernon always acting like a "bro." But now with his burdens out in the open, and Becca realizing her life is just as broken as everyone else's, that particular moment was golden.

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

(edited)
Even the critics most kindly disposed towards YTW's second season have basically said the same thing they said about Parks & Rec: "Great show. Shame about the comedy."\

We must read different critics.  Maybe more aligned with our personal preferences?  Because never have I read that Parks and Rec was sweet but not funny.  It had sweetness, optimism....etc. but it also got praise for its hilarity, especially when it came its cast of supporting characters. 

 

Similarly, I've seen critics I follow on Twitter respond to people who share your opinion that S2 of YTW lost its humor by outright disagreeing with them.  Did I find the depression stuff funny?  Not really but there was a lot of humor in other places. 

 

there were critics who expressed disappointment that The Office was backing away from the beautiful bleakness of the Season 2 finale in favour of sentimental pap like getting David a girl like some sort of fucking prize and hooking up Tim and Dawn, and they were right.

I was not the one who brought up The Office as an example of people-are-who-they-are.  I was just pointing out that even that show had its sentimental moments and they wrote that Season 2 finale knowing there would be a Christmas special.  And the reason Tim and Dawn worked for who it worked was not because they pulled the couple out of their asses.  It was because it had been building for two seasons.  As crass as it could be, the heart was always there. 

 

Comedy really is subjective.  I like comedy with heart and I like comedy without it.  But the one thing adding layers to character does is make me care even when my funny bone is broken. 

 

I'm just glad that Becca's cake wasn't one of those pregnant torso cakes (I also dislike the baby butt cakes, but the baby coming out of the vag cakes are the worst (there are even worse ones, but I'll leave it at that)!

My sister was in charge of a party where they didn't do the food coloring thing but instead put a little penis shaped thing in the cake.  The only good thing about the party was how funny it allowed everyone to be.  Otherwise, I shudder at those gender reveal parties.  Because apparently a lame baby shower isn't enough.

Edited by Irlandesa
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biakbiak

biakbiak

(edited)

This thread might be bearing off-topic to the point I think a thread about weighing the heart of this show/ embodying the title of that they are all the worst deserves its own thread. I will say this Parks and Rec rarely failed to crack my shit up while also being sweet and based on the previews for this show I avoided the first season because I didn't need another show of assholes being assholes to each other (fan of The League in its prime, Always Sunny, British shows mentioned here etc.).

I was sick before the second season premiere and finally listened to critics and a few friends and binge watched the first season. And kept watching because of its heart. They are assholes but even Shitstain tries to look out for Gretchen because he likes her. Even Becca and Vernon who are horrific have their moments, not necessarily caring for someone else but at least understanding (to me that means heart) how they got there.

Edited by biakbiak
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