S04.E07: Brotherhood

[bijoux]

I really hope this turns up at the loft at some point.

 

[kismet]

I honestly don't mind Ray's existential crisis, even if I howled at, "So they renamed the city in my honor. Big whoop." The wealthy are a species onto themselves. He's had six months to fight being strangled by cockroaches and avoiding dust bunnies so they don't squish him. He's had a lot of time to overthink things. But I very much objected to "not going back to the same useless thing" he was doing before. Which he says when Felicity, who is right there, is doing that same thing because he left her in charge of it. It felt really douchy.

Because even in his existential crisis... RP can't shake his tendency to be a douche bag. I might have felt a little bad for him that nobody cared that he died. I mean there were initial reviews of s3 finale that completely forgot to mention it. So I got it. But in his core he is still will always be a little douche because that is who he is Tater Tot size or real size.

Darhk being a Disney fan on the other hand? Totally works for me. I bet he had an existential crisis after seeing Scar bein eaten by hyenas.

I agree with you and the others that are pleasantly surprised that DD is a Disney fan. Does NM sing? Perhaps he should belt out a villain's song just to spice up the constant monologues.  He does have a Scar feel to him.

Alex's lack of reaction the day (or days?) after Thea attacked a guy in public was weird. She was justified from my POV, but she didn't explain what happened to him. She only asked for time. And he's okayish with this? What?

I also agree with the people that think Alex looks like Tim Tebow. So any odd behavior I just associate it with him being Tim Tebow knockoff. But it is becoming distraction. It was like when they had the Peyton Manning look-a-like on Astronaut Wives Club, I keep on expecting them to throw stuff. Also I feel like he is going to be dead by the end of the season, so I really don't care about him being a little unexpected.

 

Side Note - They must have found the creepiest looking man available in central casting to play the role of bar creeper. Perhaps they cast him in case TQ took MM's advice and went after a sex offender. Because that man looked old and creepy.

[arjumand]

I was more curious about the business than Ray. :)

I'm also really sick of Oliver and Thea being poor, by the way. It makes no sense first of all, but secondly really Oliver, you don't have one tux? The fake bank didn't want your custom tailored tuxes.

 

WHAT THE HELL, RIGHT?

 

This line, to me, was even worse than Laurel's first line of the episode, which I was close to considering the worst ever written for television:

 

"The ghosts! They're back to knocking over armoured cars!"

 

YOU THINK?

 

Did KC do something to the scriptwriter? Who writes a line like that and expect another human being to say it without bursting out laughing? Is there a blooper where David Ramsey says "Thank you, Captain Exposition!"

 

Oh, yes. the tuxes. Of course, the bank went after his tuxedos. Maybe Felicity set them all on fire after he joined the League of Assassins. No, I'm joking. What I want to have happened is Thea saying - "no, Oliver - they're in storage, along with the rest of your things. What, you think I threw all your stuff away?"

But that would have been smart.

 

Once again, when I like something (it took Supernatural eight and a half years to finally make me give up on it, and it took super-misogyny and bullshit to push me out) I make allowances for minor flaws - so I enjoyed this.

 

Wow, Diggle does not forgive, does he? To misquote the show my userpic comes from, "The quality of mercy is not Diggle."

 

Also, I thought he had some experience with interrogation - that wasn't very impressive.

 

It was clear to me that the obvious showing of the dock number was a trap, it was just a question of for whom. But I liked that, later on, Darhk  bit off more than he could chew with Thea, and he got the line of the episode when he called her Merida! What can I say, I like my pop culture savvy villains.

 

The flashbacks - I wish I could say I hate them. I kind of do, and Elysia Rotaru is truly a terrible actress; in fact, I'm starting to think that all that love interest stuff was just click-baiting, because there is nothing between them. No spark, no chemistry, nothing.

 

But, at least for me, still better than Hong Kong.

 

ETA - one thing occurred to me, and Diggle could have said it as another point against going after Andy: They found the location of the hideout and staging area thanks to the tooth. That could have been an incredible advantage - and they squandered it to go after one man. Who didn't even want to be rescued, and who's probably going to pull a Joker / Silva: got caught on purpose so that Darhk can get into their shiny new lair.

 

Insert Tony Stark notagreatplan.gif here.

Edited November 19, 2015 by arjumand

[tanita]

Glad I wasn't the only one who had serious problems with the direction/camera work for those fight scenes. They looked like they were filmed with a mobile phone or that they belonged in a B or more likely C quality movie.

 

The episode in general was quite boring. Ramsey is great, but I find most Diggle-centric episodes weak, and this one is no exception. There were a few bright spots : Felicity bondage joke, Thea and Malcom, Thea and Darkh - Thea has really improved from season 1 and Willa has IMO returned the writers trust in her with some great work - nothing award worthy but has been standardly good and dependable.

 

The flash-backs have officially overstated their welcome. I think this batch is the weakest in all 4 seasons so far. And the actress who is playing that Russian chick is TERRIBLE.

[looptab]

WHAT THE HELL, RIGHT?

 

This line, to me, was even worse than Laurel's first line of the episode, which I was close to considering the worst ever written for television:

 

"The ghosts! They're back to knocking over armoured cars!"

 

YOU THINK?

 

Did KC do something to the scriptwriter? Who writes a line like that and expect another human being to say it without bursting out laughing? Is there a blooper where David Ramsey says "Thank you, Captain Exposition!"

Oh my God, yes, what was that? It's not like Diggle was just in the neighborhood and decided he could give them a hand. There a lot of bad exposition lines, but this is high on the Worst list.

[arjumand]

Oh my God, yes, what was that? It's not like Diggle was just in the neighborhood and decided he could give them a hand. There a lot of bad exposition lines, but this is high on the Worst list.

 

I mean, how stupid do they think we are? Are they going to start spelling out plot points using Lego figures?

[looptab]

I mean, how stupid do they think we are? Are they going to start spelling out plot points using Lego figures?

It's not even just that. Like, if you need to do exposition, do it. Just try and do it a little better, maybe? Have her say "Looks like they're back to .." or "Aren't they tired of ..?" IDK, whatever but NOT THAT, haha.

[kismet]

The flashbacks - I wish I could say I hate them. I kind of do, and Elysia Rotaru is truly a terrible actress; in fact, I'm starting to think that all that love interest stuff was just click-baiting, because there is nothing between them. No spark, no chemistry, nothing.

 

But, at least for me, still better than Hong Kong.

The s4 plot is marginally better than Hong Kong. Still a snoozefest. But at least I cared about the actors in HK, they had some life & personality. OQ whipped somebody and I wasn't even phased... And I hate to be mean to Poppy/ER, but she really brings nothing to the screen. Even in some of her worst acting moments, KC at least looks pretty. But between the wardrobe & the make-up they are making ER look horrible. The acting is just horrendous.

[kismet]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/1682dada396cf1a3122f217d6abf00e7/tumblr_inline_ny22dzyGQh1shrb8p_500.gif

 

He was so trying to Hand Hold his way out of this argument.... We all know what hand holding does to these two ;)

 

A little something something to distract her... Good thing our girl is smarter than that. Can't say I wouldn't have tried it myself if I was him :)

[SleepDeprived]

I don't really know what to think about that episode. Some of it was like action sequences from video games. But I don't want to just watch a video game. I want to play them. So, I think I'm torn between being happy about the plot advancements on Diggle and Thea's arcs but being kinda meh about the episode as a whole. My sister thought it looked like a low budget mini-movie. She also said that Poppy looks like she could be Oliver's Mom and that Brandon Routh is kinda looking Dad-like with his hair like that.

 

On the one hand, there were a bunch of scenes/moments that I really liked (stuff with Diggle, Lyla [stay forever, Lyla!], Thea, Felicity, Oliver). On the other, the camera work in A LOT of the fight choreography kept giving me Cloverfield flashbacks and there were quite a few weird as hell cuts/transitions (there was a scene in the beginning which had David Ramsey, in the same frame as Willa, with his profile CUT OFF FROM THE NECK UP. Headless Diggle! Did this happen to anyone else? Is my tv too tiny or the dimensions wrong or something? WTF is that?). Not a good debut, Bamford. Better luck next time. Please don't let there be a next time.

 

I gotta say, I'm very disappointed with Money Van Driver. Dude, you're in a bullet-proof truck. The Ghosts are on motorcycles. Keep your head on and just ram their bikes with your truck while you speed off. That'll throw them off their pursuit. Don't keep looking to the side all easily distracted. Poor guy, though. Now, he probably not only lost his job but may also be possibly deaf thanks to Laurel's (still ridiculous-looking) sonic scream choker.

 

By the way, the sonic choker is meant to amplify Laurel's screaming into glass-shattering amplitudes, right? Does it affect her voice or her person/throat at all? Like, in that earlier episode (4?) when the cops neutralized her device, she acted like it hurt her physically when the cop shut off her scream frequency. But, if the choker is meant to amplify sound waves from her voice box and is not actually connected to her vocal cords then she should actually still have been screaming in her normal voice levels quite a bit before she figured that the device stopped working. Am I wrong? This issue isn't really anything of importance but every time Laurel screams, I just can't help but picture KC miming a scream soundlessly each take. Then I giggle. It's not KC's fault, though. I also giggle when I imagine Melissa Benoist and Laura Benanti eye-fighting something fierce on Supergirl. I'm 12.

 

Does Alex know about Felicity? Or does he only think she's the financial backer for the campaign? Why did Thea and Oliver need to act all weird when Felicity called when all they needed to say was that it was Oliver's girlfriend and they had to go see her. Was that scene supposed to be a callback to how Oliver isn't a good fibber about vigilante things (and I guess neither is Thea now)? Alex did see them together at the party so I'm assuming he's aware of the relationship.

 

I see Malcolm's going to be up to no good now that he knows Darhk may be the key in curing Thea of her bloodlust. I can almost see the wheels turning in his head. He's either going to do something against Dahrk for Thea or betray Team GA and partner with Darhk for Thea or do both and get what he wants, anyway.

 

Andy really looked like a zombie around the eyes while Diggle was talking to him. I think he barely even blinked. All the kudos to DR for his fantastic acting throughout the episode, though!

 

I don't know if I'm impressed or insulted that an evil, criminal organization conducts meetings outside where anyone can spy upon them. This show has skewed my ability to form appropriate opinions. So, what's in the yellow pills?  

 

The yellow pills contain the yellow compound from Wolfman Biologics that, I think, lead to the breakdown of the Ghosts' DNA. How exactly DNA breakdown helps in making the Ghosts subservient to Darhk, I've no idea. The Arrow writers love writing scientific mumbo-jumbo that make no sense. Maybe Darhk performs some sort of ritual on it? I think Palmer also found some water in the tooth he was examining, with traces of sodium fluoride. So, maybe he mixes Lazarus Pit water in those pills? Or the water was just from whatever the Ghosts drink at their hideout. Gotta hydrate! At least, we know H.I.V.E. doesn't neglect the dental health of its employees.

 

What if he wants to buy a coffee at Starbucks and doesn't have cash on hand? Think of these things, Ray!

 

Palmer doesn't drink Starbucks. He drinks Bulletproof Coffee. Fresh, creamery butter with your caffeine fix! Doesn't that sound absolutely tasty?

Edited November 19, 2015 by SleepDeprived

[bijoux]

The episode in general was quite boring. Ramsey is great, but I find most Diggle-centric episodes weak, and this one is no exception. T

 

They keep failing Diggle.

 

 

He was so trying to Hand Hold his way out of this argument.... We all know what hand holding does to these two ;)

 

A little something something to distract her... Good thing our girl is smarter than that. Can't say I wouldn't have tried it myself if I was him :)

 

Oliver, this is not the time! -...But it's always been the time so far.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Flashbacks kind of suck.

 

I thought they really sucked, and should have been completely left out of the episode.

[Menrva]

The exposition was so clunky and poorly inserted. I felt like DD was vamping while he waited for Oliver and Dig to get into position so he could start shooting at them. Lance is definitely the walking dead now. More so than the Ghosts.

 

If this had been Game of Thrones, there would have been naked women having sex in the background while an old white guy explained things. Not sure which is worse.

 

The flashbacks need to stop. They make no sense. 

[bijoux]

Is Dig once again officially Oliver's bodyguard? He referred to himself as such at the bar and Oliver told him to sit the event out since Alex hired security detail. I would also like to know what "bullets" he has in his gun. So they're obviously not meant to kill but they're pretty damn ineffective. Andy bounced back up in no time.

 

Oliver wasn't the only one activating sappy looks.

 

This  pretty much equals this 

 

Also, now that I see that lady again (who at first I thought was a man in drag), I wonder if Alex will catch wind of a Queen sex scandal. Leading to him first badgering Oliver about it, that he needs to tell him these things, how is he supposed to deal with them therwise. And then when he hears about him and Felicity supposedly being into bondage is too embarassed to discuss it. Never mind. It'll probably be ok. 

[lexicon]

All in all this episode felt a bit meh to me. 

 

The action sequences were okay, not s1-2 level by any means, but not bad. The way they were shot however were just really strange. I am definitely not a fan of the shaky handheld camera option for action scenes. I feel like they were shot that way to make it seem more realistic and make the viewer feel closer to the action but it just came off as bad home movie to me instead.

 

The pacing just felt really off as well. I mean we had the entire cast and hundreds of extras on hand, all dressed to the nines and ...for what? for LL to give Diggle a pep talk at the bar, a Felicity joke and a DD/Oliver showdown. None of those things required this particular setting, or that kind of fancy dress set up and so you'd think a show as budget-challenged as Arrow is reputed to be, would make better use of the gala set up or not bother to go this route at all. I was so excited when all those BTS pics of the cast dressed up started to appear for this ep and now I just can't help but think what a waste.

 

David Ramsey was great (as always) and really sold Dig's pain and heartache at the Andy reveal but it never sits right with me how easy Diggle seems to give up and be ready to move on after losing someone he loves. It's almost as irritating as Oliver's seemingly naive insistence on NEVER EVER giving up on family. If that were just limited to Thea that would be fine but since we seen him expect everyone else to jump aboard the family can do no wrong train...nope. Preventing Thea from giving MM up to the LOA, buying into LL's madcap plan to resurrect her dead sister via LP are just some of the ways this can go so very very wrong. Also where was this when Moira was around? He wasn't so quick to preach forgiveness then, hmph.

 

I'll add my two cents about how they never seem to have time for Felicity and Thea or Felicity and Diggle to have a conversation onscreen but her ex-bf Ray showing up at the loft she shares with new bf to work (instead of the lair or anyone of a thousand other places) is totally 'organic'.  

 

As for the flashbacks...sigh.

The best ...or worst, thing I can say about them is that last night, when Conklin was found out and was going to be punished I got upset for a second because I thought they were going to kill him and I didn't want him to die because he is literally the only thing of any interest in the FBs. Even FB Oliver is just meh and uninteresting, Conklin at least is an antagonist and gets a reaction out of him. With everybody and everything else on the island, it just seems like he's coasting, waiting for s5 Bratva flashbacks, just like the rest of us. Also, he doesn't buy into the idea of Poppy (I typed Poopy as first and I feel like that may actually be a better name considering her work so far) being either a potential love interest or a believable example of an eastern European accent. Yikes.

 

All in all, as a promised Diggle-centric episode it all fell kinda flat to me. David Ramsey and Diggle deserved better.

[cambridgeguy]

 

None of those things required this particular setting, or that kind of fancy dress set up and so you'd think a show as budget-challenged as Arrow is reputed to be, would make better use of the gala set up or not bother to go this route at all.

Who knows, maybe the casting call for the extras said that they were guaranteed a spot if they came with their own formal wear.

 

No media reports about how the sister of mayoral candidate Oliver Queen almost beat a guy to death?  That strikes me as something that would make the news.

[apinknightmare]

Stuff like this in the episode drove me crazy:

 

 

Why aren't you showing me the whole screen? If you're focusing on it, freaking show it - the camera did finally manage to pan *almost* the whole way down, but damn.

[Chaser]

It wasn't just the fight scenes that had questionable directing. There were a lot if awkward cuts. I noticed more of them watching Olicity Queens videos. 

[nksarmi]

I was distracted for a lot of this episode so I guess I didn't notice how weak it was overall.  But the Flashback scenes have almost become like commercials for me.  I liked the Hong Kong flashbacks well enough because I cared about the characters.  I mean yes it was painful that somehow Oliver wasn't mastering Mandarin in them because supposedly he could speak it like a native in season one - but I don't think most people even remember that.  Anyway, Waller had more of a presence in season three and I understood Oliver's purpose in the flashbacks.  I don't have a freaking clue what he's doing on that island now and neither does he! 

 

Also I liked and cared about both Mateo and Tatsu (and would love to see more of her) so even as weakly as the flashbacks tied into the present day plot and as obvious as it was that the boy was going to die - I still cared because it was telling us how this awesome couple came to be in the place they were in the present and how their story ends so tragically. Not everything about season two's flashbacks were perfect either, but at least the actors kept you invested when the story telling got a little weak.

 

At this point, I don't give a rats ass about any of these new people on the island and I find myself hoping that not a single one of them shows up in the present day.  If the show is going to keep the flashback model, they need to get Oliver in Russia or something and show me how he becomes a member of the Russian mafia.  Answer questions I've had since season one - don't bore me with the island again.

[quarks]

Prior to this episode I was just neutral on Taiana. She was just there, so whatever. But the scenes in this episode were so very, very bad. So, I'm completely on board the this-actress-sucks-in-the-role train. Will Oliver fall into the same pattern as he did with Slade when he didn't tell him how Shado died?

 

I honestly don't mind Ray's existential crisis, even if I howled at, "So they renamed the city in my honor. Big whoop." The wealthy are a species onto themselves. He's had six months to fight being strangled by cockroaches and avoiding dust bunnies so they don't squish him. He's had a lot of time to overthink things. But I very much objected to "not going back to the same useless thing" he was doing before. Which he says when Felicity, who is right there, is doing that same thing because he left her in charge of it. It felt really douchy.

 

 

 

Yeah, that was another problem with that bit - it came off as "Well, I'm too good to be doing that, but it's fine for you." Not to mention that last season he was all "We're going to be friends. That's not negotiable." And here's Felicity, asking him to help not just her, but all of the other QC/PT employees who will lose their jobs if she can't turn things around in what is now just four more months, and he's all, not feeling it! I need a purpose!

 

Had that included even one line of - "I gave the company to you because I knew you could make it succeed," it might have gone over better, but as it is, I can only handwave it because it was basically a "I am heading off to another show to go hero and your show needs some way to pay for all of the motorcycles, so, let's deal" speech, not a "huh, that makes a lot of sense" speech or "well, at least I get where he's coming from" speech.

[tv echo]

I was really looking forward to a Diggle-centric episode.  But for an action-filled episode directed by the head stunt guy, this episode felt oddly... flat.

 

First, let me say that Diggle's readiness to give up on his brother and his adamant refusal to delve deeper into Andy's actions made no sense to me.  Unless there's some childhood beef between the brothers, I expected Diggle to be more happy at Andy's being alive and more curious as to what happened to him. Yes, he can be unforgiving - but uncurious? That said, DR nailed his scenes with Oliver.  And DR really got to me with his emotional scene with Lyla - and his reaching out to hold her hand seemed really natural.

 

In contrast, the scene by the bar when Laurel held onto Diggle's arm with both her hands seemed forced. However, I did buy that they would have that conversation about their respective 'resurrected' siblings (although Andy wasn't dead, as far as we know, while Sara was).  I actually thought it was a nice scene (if you forget about past eps) - except for the weird arm grabbing.  The Laurel character isn't a touchy-feely person, as far as I can tell from watching this show.  BTW, why wasn't Lyla with Diggle at that party? Couldn't they get a babysitter for baby Sara?

 

However, I did like that Felicity and Diggle convinced Oliver that the public Oliver Queen persona needed to fight DD in the light (to be that symbol of hope to the citizens of Star City) and not in the shadows as an undercover mole (which would've regressed him to S3 Oliver).

 

I was also intrigued by why DD touching Thea backfired on him and eased Thea's bloodlust and curious about the history between Malcolm and DD. 

 

Ray was integrated better into the main story than he was last season.  However, his reluctance to come out publicly as alive and return to Palmer Tech seemed unconvincing and designed solely to ship him off to LoT.

 

Unless Alex is an undercover HIVE guy, he is just so uninteresting.

 

Bamford's directing seemed odd in spots, especially some of his framing of scenes and his editing.  When TA is discussing Andy in the Arrowcave, there's seated Laurel, standing Felicity and seated Oliver fully centered in one shot while they talk,(*) and then there's standing Diggle and seated Thea fully centered in another shot while they talk.  These two shots could've been filmed at two different times and seemed somewhat disconnected.  It would've looked more natural if there was a wider shot of TA seated or standing randomly around that round table, and then zoom in to the person talking with the people next to him/her partially cut off - to give a sense of continuity to the surroundings.  As it was, it looked too posed in each shot.

 

(* Incidentally, I wonder if the placement of Felicity between Laurel and Oliver had any hidden meaning.)

 

Then, in the sequence when TA goes on the mission to grab Andy, in one moment we have Felicity saying over the coms that Andy is next to Thea, and we see Thea fighting Andy in this long action sequence (which, incidentally, had some odd framing and editing, like when we're watching the fight from another room) before incapacitating him with an arrow.  And then in the next moment, we have Felicity saying over the coms that BC has Andy and we see Thea wandering the halls alone before encountering DD.  What happened?  Are we supposed to infer that BC caught up to Thea and then Thea handed the unconscious Andy over to super strong BC to carry back out by herself, while Thea continued on to find Ghosts to fight to appease her blood lust?

 

Also, once again, the use of stunt doubles and the transitions to the actors were really obvious.

 

As for the flashbacks, I think Oliver's failing to tell Taiana that he was the one to kill her brother is going to come back and bite him later on.  (IIRC, he blamed Conklin for Vlad's death.)

 

P.S. The Canary Cry still looks stupid in live action television.

 

P.P.S.  I guess we're still supposed to believe that TA did not kill anyone in this episode?

Edited November 19, 2015 by tv echo

[BunsenBurner]

I got the joke... I was being sarcastic. I just thought it was a little of out of date... It could be that I think there was a Hunger Games promo with Katniss in a colored hood on tonight. But it's funny none the less.

i was too. i was in a weird mood last night and the sarcasm was overflowing at my house and here. Sorry.

[apinknightmare]

BTW, why wasn't Lyla with Diggle at that party? Couldn't they get a babysitter for baby Sara?

 

Diggle was there as Oliver's security guard. 

 

What I really don't get about Ray (spinoff aside) is if his company went down the tubes after he died, wouldn't that alone indicate that his life was worth something? The last we heard about the financial state of the company was early in S3 when stock prices were rebounding, but did his fixation on his suit level out or otherwise harm the company? Because seriously...makes no sense.

Edited November 19, 2015 by apinknightmare

[dtissagirl]

P.P.S.  I guess we're still supposed to believe that TA did not kill anyone in this episode?

 

YES.

 

Team Arrow employs a crime scene cleaners service that, among other things like removing everything Laurel touched from the premises so she's not fingerprinted ever, also picks up all unnamed minions left unconscious, and take them to the nearest hospital for treatment, and no one ever dies from blood loss or head injuries or anything. It's a very efficient service.

[nksarmi]

Yea I am trying to ignore the stuff with Ray and his "I don't want to come back from the dead" spiel because it really doesn't make any sense.  I would buy some version of "Felicity, I believe in you - you are going to save the company, not me.  I had already realized I was too obsessed with the suit and not running the business before I blew myself up.  I knew I belonged in R&D and I wanted you to take over - that's why I drew up those papers.  Nothing has changed."

 

or

 

"Felicity, after my fiancé died, I threw myself into building this suit - even acquiring Oliver's company and recruiting you to work for me was all about the suit.  I'm not the right person to head the company and I need to find a new reason for being.  And I couldn't have picked a better person to run the company for me - you are amazing and I know you can do it."

 

or

 

"Darkh wants this suit and if I come back from the dead, he's going to come after me and the suit.  I need to disappear for awhile so that whatever it is he wants - he can't get it.  And I need some time to process.  I'm going to take off for awhile.  After all, if Oliver can be dead for five years, me staying dead a few more months won't hurt.  And Felicity, you'll be great - you really are the best woman for the job.  I always knew that."

 

Or some combination of the above.

 

However, I do think they are writing Ray well now and BR is selling this stuff with as much humble sincerity as he can.  I still look forward to seeing him on the spin-off.

[Starfish35]

"The ghosts! They're back to knocking over armoured cars!"

YOU THINK?

Hahaha can't believe I forgot to mention that. :) Yeah, that was a terrible line.

Had that included even one line of - "I gave the company to you because I knew you could make it succeed," it might have gone over better, but as it is, I can only handwave it because it was basically a "I am heading off to another show to go hero and your show needs some way to pay for all of the motorcycles, so, let's deal" speech, not a "huh, that makes a lot of sense" speech or "well, at least I get where he's coming from" speech.

That was weird. There was all this talk about the company failing, and the one who is currently running the company is sitting right there. So is he saying/not saying that Felicity's doing a terrible job? It just felt strange to have no acknowledgment of it.

[Chaser]

I was really looking forward to a Diggle-centric episode.  But for an action-filled episode directed by the head stunt guy, this episode felt oddly... flat.

 

First, let me say that Diggle's readiness to give up on his brother and his adamant refusal to delve deeper into Andy's actions made no sense to me.  Unless there's some childhood beef between the brothers, I expected Diggle to be more happy at Andy's being alive and more curious as to what happened to him. Yes, he can be unforgiving - but uncurious? That said, DR nailed his scenes with Oliver.  And DR really got to me with his emotional scene with Lyla - and his reaching out to hold her hand seemed really natural.

 

In contrast, the scene by the bar when Laurel held onto Diggle's arm with both her hands seemed forced. However, I did buy that they would have that conversation about their respective 'resurrected' siblings (although Andy wasn't dead, as far as we know, while Sara was).  I actually thought it was a nice scene (if you forget about past eps) - except for the weird arm grabbing.  The Laurel character isn't a touchy-feely person, as far as I can tell from watching this show.  BTW, why wasn't Lyla with Diggle at that party? Couldn't they get a babysitter for baby Sara?

 

However, I did like that Felicity and Diggle convinced Oliver that the public Oliver Queen persona needed to fight DD in the light (to be that symbol of hope to the citizens of Star City) and not in the shadows as an undercover mole (which would've regressed him to S3 Oliver).

 

I was also intrigued by why DD touching Thea backfired on him and eased Thea's bloodlust and curious about the history between Malcolm and DD. 

 

Ray was integrated better into the main story than he was last season.  However, his reluctance to come out publicly as alive and return to Palmer Tech seemed unconvincing and designed solely to ship him off to LoT.

 

Unless Alex is an undercover HIVE guy, he is just so uninteresting.

 

Bamford's directing seemed odd in spots, especially some of his framing of scenes and his editing.  When TA is discussing Andy in the Arrowcave, there's seated Laurel, standing Felicity and seated Oliver fully centered in one shot while they talk,(*) and then there's standing Diggle and seated Thea fully centered in another shot while they talk.  These two shots could've been filmed at two different times and seemed somewhat disconnected.  It would've looked more natural if there was a wider shot of TA seated or standing randomly around that round table, and then zoom in to the person talking with the people next to him/her partially cut off - to give a sense of continuity to the surroundings.  As it was, it looked too posed in each shot.

 

(* Incidentally, I wonder if the placement of Felicity between Laurel and Oliver had any hidden meaning.)

 

Then, in the sequence when TA goes on the mission to grab Andy, in one moment we have Felicity saying over the coms that Andy is next to Thea, and we see Thea fighting Andy in this long action sequence (which, incidentally, had some odd framing and editing, like where we're watching the fight from another room) before incapacitating him with an arrow.  And then in the next moment, we have Felicity saying over the coms that BC has Andy and we see Thea wandering the halls alone before encountering DD.  What happened?  Are we supposed to infer that BC caught up to Thea and then Thea handed the unconscious Andy over to super strong BC to carry back out by herself, while Thea continued on to find Ghosts to fight to appease her blood lust?

 

Also, once again, the use of stunt doubles and the transitions to the actors were really obvious.

 

As for the flashbacks, I think Oliver's failing to tell Taiana that he was the one to kill her brother is going to come back and bite him later on.  (IIRC, he blamed Conklin for Vlad's death.)

 

P.S. The Canary Cry still looks stupid in live action television.

 

P.P.S.  I guess we're still supposed to believe that TA did not kill anyone in this episode?

I laughed at them having Laurel grab Andy. Laurel carrying bodies around. It's like a running joke at this point.

[Chaser]

Unpopular opinion: I didn't care much for "The green one" line. I appreciate the sentiment, but it was so corny and awkward.

[Starfish35]

I don't mind the dark lip, but it was too much all put together. I wouldn't mind any of it if she would just put her hair up in the field. Think of the neck sweat. Ugh.

I was more thinking of her makeup at the party. I wasn't really paying attention to her makeup in the field, whether it looked any different than normal.

I actually thought Felicity could have used a touch more makeup (but that dress was gorgeous) and Laurel could have used a lot less.

[Chaser]

When they went into the lab, I was distracted by Laurel's perfectly coiffed hair.

 

I did want more from the fancy gala. :-(

[benteen]

I really enjoyed this episode.  Strong one for David Ramsay and his interaction with SA was great.  Really liked the Thea/Andy fight.

 

Hey, they actually remembered that Diggle's brother had a wife and kid.  Usually those kind of details get ignored on a CW show (*cough*Smallville*cough*) and elsewhere.

 

I wish they would stop clinging to the boring flashback sequences.  To me, they have become useless since last season.

Edited November 19, 2015 by benteen

[bijoux]

I was more thinking of her makeup at the party. I wasn't really paying attention to her makeup in the field, whether it looked any different than normal.

I actually thought Felicity could have used a touch more makeup (but that dress was gorgeous) and Laurel could have used a lot less.

I was talking about the party makeup as well. I just transitioned into her field hair so it came out odd.

[Guest]

When Laurel entered the lab to find the drug, did anyone else notice that she walked past a whole cabinet of yellow liquids? How do they know she got the right one? LMAO.

 

I said I wasn't going to say anything about it but I'm still kind of annoyed that Diggle is confiding in Laurel. I do understand why to an extent - what with their 'resurrected' siblings - but it feels like they're purposefully ignoring 3 years' worth of friendship and history with Felicity just so Laurel has a scene. Honestly, Diggle would have had the same reaction with anyone asking if he wanted to talk and I'd believe Felicity to be more touchy-feely than Laurel. It just feels like they're forcing a bond that I've not seen build but whatever. I expected this. It's almost too predictable at this point.

 

I do hope we get some Delicity scenes soon because maybe I'll forgive when they pull agenda crap like this.

[Starfish35]

I'm going back and forth about whether campaign manager guy is going to turn out to be evil. On one hand, having him be evil would be a little too reminiscent of the DJ guy last year. But on the other hand, he seemed like he forgave Thea for beating the crap out of that guy wayyyyyy too easily. So now I'm somewhat suspicious.

The two situations aren't really close to each other at all, but somehow I'm reminded of Lex and Helen in Smallville.

[Guest]

I'm going back and forth about whether campaign manager guy is going to turn out to be evil. On one hand, having him be evil would be a little too reminiscent of the DJ guy last year. But on the other hand, he seemed like he forgave Thea for beating the crap out of that guy wayyyyyy too easily. So now I'm somewhat suspicious.

 

I wonder if he's not evil yet? DD could try to get him on his side. Saying that, he was pretty against Oliver's hippy campaign to save the bay and we know DD doesn't want that either so it could go either way at this point. Eh. Maybe it might make him interesting. He's a little dull so far.

[KirkB]

On the subject of Ray, when did he learn to fight so well? Last season they needed Oliver to remotely handle the fighting. Now Ray flies in and is knocking guys around with a lot of fancy martial arts like everyone else, odd in a guy with powered armor but anyway...did he find some well trained cockroaches to learn from? Not a big deal really it just kind of jumped out at me during the fight scene.

 

We don't know exactly what Dark (I refuse to add the h in case anyone is wondering, it's just so pretentious) does when he kills people with a touch. Is he sucking the life out of them? Draining their soul? Whatever it is, I'm guessing it didn't work on Thea because she's been in the Lazarus Pit. That could connect the power to the pit water Ra's said he took with him, or it could mean Thea's soul or life force is different than others. Not only didn't it drain he it seemed to negatively affect him. This might give Thea resistance or immunity to that one power but it might also make her a target. And when Thea was telling Malcolm about Dark, I didn't see his reaction as one of "Hey, maybe this can help Thea" but rather "Oh crap, Damien Dark?" Not quite as scared as he was of Ra's (for no apparent reason) but maybe not someone he wants to mess with. Speaking of Dark, it's good to know he's keeping up with events in Nanda Parbat, since he knows Ra's al Ghul is now Malcolm Merlyn. I guess he still subscribes to the newsletter?

 

I'm trying to decide what bothers me more. Laurel/Canary or the flashbacks. At least she doesn't bore me. I can't stand seeing her on screen but I can't ignore her as much as I might try. The flashbacks bore me and no longer make any narrative sense. But since they are a part of the story I might as well discuss them here. I don't understand the head bad guy on the island. He thinks the bearded guy (they do have names, I assume) lied or was a troublemaker, but he has him whipped and humiliated instead of killed, which is bad for morale and creates a potential enemy for both himself and Oliver.

 

Diggle's attitude toward Andy, while harsh, kind of makes sense to me. He spent eight years mourning his brother. Finally came to terms with both his death and with the man who (he thought) killed him. Which, by the way, makes me wonder about the whole Deadshot storyline. Anyway, he finds out that Andy has been alive this whole time and deliberately avoided contacting him or his own family. He doesn't want to talk about it with Oliver or Laurel, despite his insistence at understanding better than anyone else what he's going through, even though it's not even remotely the same, because there isn't anything they could say to give him answers or closure. He only wants to hear it from Andy.

 

The last guy Thea dated, the DJ, turned out to be a plant for Ra's. I'd like to think the Arrow writers were more creative than to have Alex be a plant for Dark but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Edited November 19, 2015 by KirkB

[bijoux]

@KirkB, cockroaches are my explanation for Ray's fighting skills improving. If they were comparqtively the size of goldn retrievers and ganged up on him, he had to have toughened up. Or maybe he somehow cued in Oliver's moves from last season into to suit so that it's doing the work for him.

[apinknightmare]

 

On the subject of Ray, when did he learn to fight so well?

 

Hey, he had to go toe-to-toe with all kinds of rodents for food when he was living as a tot!

[Starfish35]

And when Thea was telling Malcolm about Dark, I didn't see his reaction as one of "Hey, maybe this can help Thea" but rather "Oh crap, Damien Dark?" Not quite as scared as he was of Ra's (for no apparent reason) but maybe not someone he wants to mess with.

I saw it as both. At first when Thea said the name, there was definitely an "oh crap" look on his face, and he was definitely alarmed about Thea running into DD. But then as Thea explained, it seemed like there was a slow dawning of "hmm I can work with this." Malcolm is nothing if not a schemer, and if he can turn this to his advantage and help Thea at the same time, so much the better.

[AyChihuahua]

It wasn't just the fight scenes that had questionable directing. There were a lot if awkward cuts. I noticed more of them watching Olicity Queens videos. 

William Shatner even said something about one of the weird cuts on Twitter.

[bijoux]

William Shatner even said something about one of the weird cuts on Twitter.

I just checked his tweets and have no idea why ab flash made me laugh as hard as it did.

[dtissagirl]

I can fanwank Palmer knowing how to fight: it was the suit that recorded every movement that Oliver did last year while controlling it, and learned how to emulate it.

[Starfish35]

William Shatner even said something about one of the weird cuts on Twitter.

I just went to see what he said, and yeah, that one was weird (the cut from the FB whipping to Thea laughing).

[Primetimer]

The fight-to-plot ratio is somewhat skewed this week as Team Arrow invades multiple secret headquarters.

Read the story

[Ann Mack]

 

Loved this scene but I just kept thinking Felicity (Emily) looks about 14 years old and a bit like Supergirl in this shot! They are adorable little cuties though!

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ann Mack

[arjumand]

Unpopular opinion: I didn't care much for "The green one" line. I appreciate the sentiment, but it was so corny and awkward

 

.

I was just going to answer when I realised you meant when John Diggle said it, rather than Andy Diggle?

Because at the beginning, when Andy said "KILL THE GREEN ONE!" I kind of had to giggle, as it reminded me of "FIND THE HALFLING!" from Fellowship of the Ring. I dunno, it just had a very Central Casting Bad Guy tone to it. Does the yellow pill affect their vocabulary and tone too?

 

    .

    Then, in the sequence when TA goes on the mission to grab Andy, in one moment we have Felicity saying over the coms that Andy is next to Thea, and we see Thea fighting Andy in this long action sequence (which, incidentally, had some odd framing and editing, like when we're watching the fight from another room) before incapacitating him with an arrow.  And then in the next moment, we have Felicity saying over the coms that BC has Andy and we see Thea wandering the halls alone before encountering DD.  What happened?  Are we supposed to infer that BC caught up to Thea and then Thea handed the unconscious Andy over to super strong BC to carry back out by herself, while Thea continued on to find Ghosts to fight to appease her blood lust?

 

 

I can honestly say that I have no idea what happened in that whole fucking sequence - it's like last season finale's final fight with R'as, only much worse. Seriously, is no-one at the CW providing any notes on the show before it goes out for broadcast? I can honestly say that I blamed myself for the confusion, as I'm at home with a chest infection, and I said to myself, damn, the blocked nasal passages must be cutting off oxygen to the brain, can't make sense of Arrow anymore.

Because as you said, Thea was fighting Andy, and needed help to carry him once she knocked him out. And then she's running around on her own, and who the fuck helped with Andy? Felicity says Laurel, but seriously girl, you are tripping. I actually thought Thea's interaction with DD was a dream sequence at first, because why the fuck is she alone? And how did Laurel carry Andy down? Did Laurel find the powerloader from Aliens?

 

Is that how Felicity's turning the company around, she and Curtis are developing that powerloader? In which case I want one! I have a work assigned laptop which weighs a ton, and my shoulder is giving out.

Edited November 19, 2015 by arjumand

[looptab]

Didn't Oliver send Ray to help them?

[tarotx]

Oliver did send Ray to help get Andy.

[arjumand]

Didn't Oliver send Ray to help them?

 

Oliver did send Ray to help get Andy.

 

Great. Ray ruins everything. Hey Ray, fuck off to your own show, ok ?

 

Still, Felicity said that Laurel had Andy, while Thea was the one who had the big amazing fight with him, or was that some other guy, and oh, why do I care? The writers clearly don't.

 

I still want to know why Thea was on her own, though. Yes, I know we had to have that very special moment, which I actually liked, because it surprised me. While everything else has been pretty predictable so far.

Edited November 19, 2015 by arjumand

[Password]

I feel really bad but...

I didn't wike it.