S02.E12: Other Things You Could Be Doing

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Gretchen’s depression comes to a head, forcing Jimmy to make a tough choice. Lindsay finally lets Paul go. Edgar has his improv graduation show.

[Irlandesa]

That was a really fine episode.  Chris Geere and Aya Cash were excellent.  Chris with Jimmy going from sad to hiding behind the bushes instead of just telling Nina he can't make it.  And Gretchen's face when she woke up, realized he had built her a tent and stayed was heartbreaking.  It's almost like she realized Jimmy passed a test she didn't even realize she was giving him but was relieved he did. 

 

I felt for Edgar even while I was laughing at Jimmy's doppelganger in the audience.  I wonder if something will happen to upset his happy status quo.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Lindsay possibly being pregnant.  Who's the father?  Paul from the turkey baster incident?  Is there someone else?  I don't think I need to see her with a baby even though it would be hilarious to see the sibling rivalry come out  when Becca finds out Lindsay is also having a baby.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was so disappointed that Jimmy let Edgar down by not showing up to his graduation performance, but (and it's a fairly significant but) I am glad that the reason he missed the show was because he was trying to help Gretchen (as opposed to just forgetting for no reason or having sex on top of a bar). But the upside is that it pushed Edgar to be more independent. As much as I will miss Edgar making breakfast for Jimmy and Gretchen at the beginning of each episode, I support him moving out and not being so dependent upon Jimmy for approval. I like Edgar so I don't like seeing Jimmy take him for granted.

 

Gretchen just broke my heart when her face crumpled and she said, "You stayed?" I don't think it was a conscious test on her part. I believe she really meant what she said earlier about how he deserves to be happy. I don't think she was doing that teenage girl thing where you say one thing (go away) but mean the opposite (don't go!). She really expected him to leave and then she was going to order some food and then drag herself back to Lindsay's before he got back. I think she truly believes that she is broken and that no one (except maybe Lindsay) can love her the way that she is which is why she was so surprised that he stayed.

Edited December 3, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[arc]

A few quick thoughts, one I only got from an AV Club comment: Vernon was eating specialty popcorn. Like the kind you'd get from ... A POPCORN CATALOG.  More generally, I loved seeing so many characters come back for the quick one-on-ones with Gretchen. Sam's list of geniuses with depression was the standout joke, I guess followed by Vernon referring to his now-rich domme.  (Oh, and I guess Rob's reappearance kinda solved whether or not he was hitting on Gretch before. "Plus, I have a separate credit card. My dad gave it to me for emergencies.")

 

Gretchen's crying at the end turned a good episode into a great one.

 

I agree with ElectricBoogaloo above that at least Jimmy bailed on Edgar for a really good reason.  Speaking of which, it kinda throws me that Edgar's class was called a "101" rather than "Level 1" (so more like UCB terminology) but the theater itself looked more like iO West than UCB.  Also, I feel like it's a little contrived that (1) they managed to sell out a 101 class show and (2) Jimmy's silhouette-double would end up sitting in the seat reserved for Jimmy.

[butterbody]

Henry Rollins, you guys!

[Arynm]

Oh, This show!! When Gretchen started crying, I started bawling. I agree that Jimmy passed a test she didn't even know she was giving. I can't wait to see who the father of Lindseys baby is. I am not sure I want her to have a baby, but I will roll with whatever the show decides to do.

I also loved that Dr. Vern was all, nope, no idea what her problem is.

[Traveller519]

Henry Rollins, you guys!

I think you mean.. "Hen-REEE Row-LiNS????????"

[CMH1981]

Great episode...I was scared we were going to get another epic rant from Gretchen when Jimmy came in wanted her to explain it again, but it was beautiful how she tried to explain it in the simplest terms to him.  They were both tired of hurting one another.  I too cried when Gretchen realized she really needed Jimmy and was glad he stayed.  I can't figure where this side of Jimmy is coming from though, b/c this is a side we have really never experienced before.

 

As for Lindsey and the being pregnant, didn't she use Paul's sperm that was in the freezer a few weeks back...that was her plan to get him back by blackmailing him right?  I feel bad b/c she finally has let him move on and now...this.  I guess now we will see how noble Paul really is, will he leave his new girl to be w/ the mother of his child that he still loves as well or will he write Lindsey and the baby off.

[Deanie87]

Oh, its great to love this show again!  I love how the camera made it look like Jimmy was going to smother Gretchen with the pillow, but really he put it under her head. I guessed that part, but didn't see the tent coming and I had heart eyes when I saw it.  I loved seeing Gretchen cry after being so numb for so long and I'm glad that it was Jimmy that brought it on.

 

I can't figure where this side of Jimmy is coming from though, b/c this is a side we have really never experienced before.

 

 

I always got the impression that Jimmy has that in him, but that he got so bitter and angry after Lindsay's sister dumped him.  He seemed to believe in marriage and romance, to a certain degree anyway, where Gretchen has always seemed more guarded and caustic.  But I am excited to see what comes next.

 

I agree that the Lindsay pregnancy twist doesn't thrill me, but I did love seeing her pee outside in the CVS parking lot LOL!  I would absolutely love it if Sam turned out to be the father, but I'm sure it will be Paul's.  

 

I loved the montage of Lindsay's "friends" trying to help her out and I'm glad that Jimmy called them, even though it was probably sheer torture for Gretchen.  I especially loved the return of the creepy neighbor ("let's start a group") and the degenerate old friend.  As for Henry, boy he is looking old, which means that I probably am too.

 

Very happy for Edgar moving on, but the actor is reminding me more and more of Ross Gellar/David Schwimmer and not in a good way.

[arc]

As for Lindsey and the being pregnant, didn't she use Paul's sperm that was in the freezer a few weeks back...that was her plan to get him back by blackmailing him right?

I don't know if it was her plan, but specifically, it was (1) hours-old sperm by the time she thought to freeze it, and then she (2) dumped it in a mug that had some residual wine and (3) microwaved it until it was nearly scalding hot. I'm no doctor, but it seems to me every one of those factors should sharply reduce the chance that she's pregnant with Paul's kid.

[Eyes High]

I am still frustrated by the fact that there's no clarity as to whether Gretchen has tried medication, therapy, etc. and found it ineffective, and by the fact that no characters--even those who supposedly love and care about her--have raised the issue. It also seems incredibly irresponsible that people who supposedly love and care about her would not seek emergency professional help immediately when Gretchen was pretty much physically paralyzed by her depression. And someone who has claimed that this storyline is based on the experiences of people he's known in real life, as Stephen Falk has, would surely know that. It's like having a storyline where a character is diagnosed with cancer and not only does the character not receive treatment, treatments are never even discussed by anyone, even to say that they wouldn't be effective. It's completely fucking insane.

 

On the AV Club thread, I saw at least one commenter assuming that Gretchen must have tried medication, therapy, etc. and found all treatments ineffective, but there's still nothing in the show to verify that. Just one line--Gretchen commenting that she wouldn't take her medication because she couldn't mix booze with her antidepressants--would go a long way.

 

In interviews and such, Stephen Falk seems to be holding this storyline out as a fictional representation of a problem many of his real-life friends in the creative community, but the elephant in the room is the fact that Gretchen has come out and said that she has a disease--clinical depression--and nobody has breathed a word about treatment. It's horrible writing. You don't claim that you're writing a realistic representation of depression and then completely neglect any mention whatsoever of treatment. It's not only false, but it's also highly irresponsible to depict depression with no reference whatsoever to treatment and to present it as a disease which is not only apparently completely untreatable but whose effects are to be uncritically accepted by one's partner as a test of true love, as this episode did with the "You stayed" bullshit.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Eyes High

[wendyg]

arc: biological probabilities aside, this is American TV. I had been wondering why we hadn't seen Lindsay discovering she was pregnant yet. It's a handy way of keeping Paul around a while longer. And it's far enough back that she may no longer be able to get an "abobo", thereby neatly sidestepping the problem that her character *would* get one but apparently no main character is ever allowed to.

 

Still in play:

- Jimmy's love letter to Becca (that was awkwardly glossed over when she showed up to talk to Gretchen)

- the gun

Edited December 3, 2015 by wendyg

[arc]

I feel like the gun was paid off when Gretchen pulled it on the women attacking her rappers.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Henry Rollins, you guys!

I was really hoping he would show up to talk to Gretchen.

And seriously, I would be horrified if someone sent a group text to everyone in my contacts. I have numbers of people I haven't talked to for ages or had to call once.

As for whether Gretchen has tried meds or therapt, I feel like what Gretchen said in this episode indicates that she hasn't. She told Jimmy that with her past episodes of depression, she has always managed to flip herself back over but that this time she can't. To me that sounds like she usually just waits it out until it passes. I found it so sad when she told Jimmy that this is just the way she is now. She has accepted the fact that being miserable is her new normal.

Edited December 3, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[wendyg]

arc: maybe. But it hasn't gone off.

[rho]

I am still frustrated by the fact that there's no clarity as to whether Gretchen has tried medication, therapy, etc. and found it ineffective, and by the fact that no characters--even those who supposedly love and care about her--have raised the issue. It also seems incredibly irresponsible that people who supposedly love and care about her would not seek emergency professional help immediately when Gretchen was pretty much physically paralyzed by her depression. And someone who has claimed that this storyline is based on the experiences of people he's known in real life, as Stephen Falk has, would surely know that. It's like having a storyline where a character is diagnosed with cancer and not only does the character not receive treatment, treatments are never even discussed by anyone, even to say that they wouldn't be effective. It's completely fucking insane.

 

On the AV Club thread, I saw at least one commenter assuming that Gretchen must have tried medication, therapy, etc. and found all treatments ineffective, but there's still nothing in the show to verify that. Just one line--Gretchen commenting that she wouldn't take her medication because she couldn't mix booze with her antidepressants--would go a long way.

 

In interviews and such, Stephen Falk seems to be holding this storyline out as a fictional representation of a problem many of his real-life friends in the creative community, but the elephant in the room is the fact that Gretchen has come out and said that she has a disease--clinical depression--and nobody has breathed a word about treatment. It's horrible writing. You don't claim that you're writing a realistic representation of depression and then completely neglect any mention whatsoever of treatment. It's not only false, but it's also highly irresponsible to depict depression with no reference whatsoever to treatment and to present it as a disease which is not only apparently completely untreatable but whose effects are to be uncritically accepted by one's partner as a test of true love, as this episode did with the "You stayed" bullshit.

 

I humbly disagree.

 

I like to think that TV writers in this day and age would use their platform to shed a light on something as sensitive as psychological disorders, but I also don't expect it. At the end of the day this is a 22 minute sitcom and I watch for the character building and the laughs, not the moral compass. I think it was established early on that these are not characters to emulate. This is heavy subject matter for a comedy and I think that Gretchen's treatment shouldn't be relegated to a throwaway line either. I think it's worse to introduce a shrink as a caricature of a person just for laughs. I also don't want to sit through an entire episode dedicated to Gretchen and her meds. The show is already beginning to hit a little too close to him, and not in a good way.

 

Given that, I really don't think it's out of character that they don't make an effort to get Gretchen psychiatric help. As a writer Jimmy has seen his share of emotional slumps. He had his own issues in the first season and Gretchen basically just ignored them. I think that set a precedent for how those emotions are handled in their relationship. He also has somewhat of a hero complex that stems from a severely inflated ego and probably think if he can't fix her himself, no one can. I don't put much faith in the rest of them. There is still a major stigma on psychological disorders and many people are still blissfully in denial of psychiatric medication and even psychotherapy. I wouldn't consider it unrealistic that neither Jimmy nor Lindsey made that suggestion.

 

I would much prefer the show not broach the subject at all, as opposed to bastardizing it for laughs, as I fear might happen.

[arc]

Come to think of it, though, part of Edgar's PTSD treatment includes medication. They haven't gone way in depth with it, but it's been mentioned.

[nexus]

I hear what you mean about medication, but Gretchen tells Jimmy how when she's had this before she can 'flip back over' (like Mars Rover) but this time she can't. Which makes me think she underestimated how it would be and self medicated etc.  

I didn't like that Lindsay went back to self-centred given she was on the ball with Gretchen's illness before and we see gaps where she could be awesome and then it was like she forgot about it.

 

But yup, that last bit "you stayed? You stayed.." and her quivering lip, made me teary. Even seeing Jimmy looking upset and about to cry as he left was so sad. I'm glad he actively chose to stay, he actually chose to do so (albeit of course ignoring Nina as his way of dealing with it being very much in character).

[Eyes High]

I like to think that TV writers in this day and age would use their platform to shed a light on something as sensitive as psychological disorders, but I also don't expect it. At the end of the day this is a 22 minute sitcom and I watch for the character building and the laughs, not the moral compass. I think it was established early on that these are not characters to emulate. This is heavy subject matter for a comedy and I think that Gretchen's treatment shouldn't be relegated to a throwaway line either. I think it's worse to introduce a shrink as a caricature of a person just for laughs. I also don't want to sit through an entire episode dedicated to Gretchen and her meds. The show is already beginning to hit a little too close to him, and not in a good way.

 

Well, Stephen Falk did go there, and it appears from interviews that he is selling this as a serious treatment of a subject that's a reality to people he knows. It is also clear that the treatment of Gretchen's depression has been far from humorous, with big scenes lacking "funny" beats: Gretchen inconsolably weeping in her car, Gretchen telling Jimmy that he should just go because she can't feel anything, Gretchen raging at Jimmy that she doesn't need to be "fixed," etc. None of this was presented as loopy or funny. If they're gong to play it straight, if they're going to present this as serious with all the ugly, unfunny beats that entails, it is supremely irresponsible of them to omit such an important aspect of the struggle with depression.

 

Given that, I really don't think it's out of character that they don't make an effort to get Gretchen psychiatric help. As a writer Jimmy has seen his share of emotional slumps.

 

That's just it, though. As not only a creative type but also as a writer who prides himself on belonging to a long tradition of writers (many of whom notoriously struggled with depression), he would be intimately acquainted with the nature of depression and would therefore be aware at least of the possibility of treatment. It's also unrealistic that Jimmy, for all his insensitivity, self-absorption and misplaced optimism, would be blind to the seriousness of Gretchen's depression and would not be making noises about seeking help for her.

 

As for Lindsey, for all her selfishness, intellectual shortcomings, and poor judgment, she has shown herself smart and sensitive when it comes to Gretchen's depression. She kindly confirms with Gretchen that her depression is making itself known again. She urges Gretchen to tell Jimmy. She even acknowledges that Gretchen's lack of emotion is fucked up (although her boop on the nose with a spoon as opposed to immediately seeking help for Gretchen was some bullshit). Why would someone who is so perceptive and supportive when it comes to Gretchen's depression fail to urge her to seek help, especially when she reaches the point where she is pretty much paralyzed?

 

I had a friend in university who confessed to me that she'd pretty much stayed in bed for two weeks due to her depression. I urged her to seek help immediately. You don't need to be a genius to know that that shit is not normal, and you don't need to be a saint to care enough to act on that knowledge.

 

I would much prefer the show not broach the subject at all, as opposed to bastardizing it for laughs, as I fear might happen.

 

I think the complaint about the show's treatment of depression is that it hasn't been funny. If they had gleefully and irreverently bastardized depression for laughs the way they have with drug use, death, abortions, PTSD ("I didn't know it was a school," like mocking soldiers accidentally killing children is sooooo edgy and sooooooo dark, am I right?), etc., that would have been braver, darker, and edgier than anything this show has done. I would have loved that. It was actually pretty disappointing that the show couldn't find the funny with the depression, something the suits actually told Stephen Falk to do before going ahead with this storyline (which he evidently failed at). Instead we get this anemic After School Special bullshit that hits all the weepy, maudlin beats a crappy Lifetime movie would--Gretchen weeping in the car, Gretchen lashing out at her friends, Gretchen pushing Jimmy away because she can't feeeeeel anything, Gretchen crying helplessly as her fantasy of cozy domestic life falls apart, Gretchen railing at Jimmy when he tries to "fix" her, Jimmy drifting away because it's too much for him to handle, the obligatory sexy friend tempting Jimmy away from his sick partner, Gretchen blubbering "You stayed!" with gratitude at Jimmy proving his devotion, etc. etc.--but doesn't once mention treatment, the way any self-respecting crappy Lifetime movie would. It's not only highly irresponsible, it's downright baffling.

 

Also, for all the praise of how realistic the treatment of depression has been on this show, even leaving aside the issue of the non-mention of treatment (something no realistic portrayal would omit), I've seen much more realistic depictions on other shows (Amy Adams on Everwood, to give one example).

Edited December 4, 2015 by Eyes High

[Irlandesa]

This show isn't an after school special.  It may not be responsible storytelling but I don't think it's supposed to be responsible storytelling.  I don't think it makes it bad writing.  It's telling a story about people who do not live healthy lives.  They don't make big life decisions due to sound reasoning. 

 

I think Gretchen's depression is an interesting depiction.  Up until recently, she appeared to be coping.  Her moments of being unable to move were intermixed with Gretchen getting up, going to work, socializing and even having sex.  She's telling him to leave her alone and she'll fix it.  Jimmy clearly doesn't know what to do so he's willing to take a hands off approach and avoiding any serious conversations. 

 

As it has gotten worse, she has taken to rejecting Jimmy.  Jimmy's a bit of a narcissist so he's focusing on that makes him feel and it wasn't until this episode where he looked past feeling hurt and rejected by her to change his approach.

Lindsay probably has seen Gretchen "flip herself around" before and is just waiting it out.  They're all perfectly comfortable in their patterns. 

 

I haven't loved this story.  The only time I found humor in it was when Jimmy's family came to visit.  I may want to know what coping strategies Gretchen has tried.  Has she tried medication or not?  But I don't think it's unrealistic, wrong or bad writing to show a group of people opting to do nothing because they don't know what to do and the person they're worried about having no interest in them trying anything.

[wendyg]

I think it's notable that here Jimmy has proved why he's different from his father - go back to what his father said about being married to a wife who got into a rough patch and stayed in it. The father sounds like he spent all those years as an unresponsive, resentful lump who after years of "putting up with" her got left. Jimmy has broken through taking it personally to something different.

[Ottis]

I call bullshit on this episode.

 

Gretchen, who fled and when Jimmy found her ordered him away, suddenly decides to return to Jimmy's? After spending several episodes telling him he can't fix her, leave her alone, go away? Why, exactly? Oh, so Jimmy has to hesitate before heading out with the bar owner, setting up a false dilemma. Bullshit.

 

Not only does she show up, she tells him she is scraped out, and then promptly goes comatose. On his couch/bench. In middle of the living room. Bullshit.

 

My complaint isn't that the show hasn't handled depression as funny. Characters in a funny show can also have depth. My complaint is the manipulative way the show has used depression make a point on behalf of TPTB while stretching the bounds of belief far beyond any realistic depiction of either Gretchen's situation or Jimmy's response to it. Based on what we have seen, Gretchen sucks. Jimmy should have left. 

 

The smartest thing Jimmy said in this ep was, "Better now than 10 years from now." That seemed to hit its mark with Gretchen ... and yet she still couldn't manage to provide Jimmy with any useful info, and also continued to hang around his living room. And Jimmy chose not to believe his own words, and stayed instead of leaving with the bar owner.

 

All bullshit. "You're the Worst' is clearly not about Jimmy any longer, because he is a completely different person now, with infinite patience and understanding for a a girlfriend he hasn't known all that long, who treats him badly and who apparently has little upside when it comes to treating her depression in any kind of realistic way. This entire depression thing feels like a plot lifted in whole cloth from some other universe and dropped onto this show and these characters in order to ... make someone's point? Be a PSA? Win an Emmy? You may as well have Genghis Khan move in next door and have special episodes about how people who are different are still people.

 

Bullshit.

[Jade Foxx]

 

I love how the camera made it look like Jimmy was going to smother Gretchen with the pillow,

 

I thought this was where it was going, too. lol

 

What's the deal with Jimmy eyeing Gretch's car, and there was a rag stuffed in the gas tank, and whatever else? Did I hallucinate?

 

Lindsay peeing in the CVS parking lot was everything.

 

I'm hesitant to get into the clinical depression conversation as it pertains to the show. Having major depressive disorder IRL, I went through several bouts like Gretchen's before getting professional treatment and meds. So, there but for the grace of god go I, and that sort of thing...

[Adultosaurus]

The actor who plays Jimmy has the worst "I'm not bald, really I swear" comb-over/comb-front.  

 

I am happy this was a good episode after the last couple.  However, if next week's is Gretchen being all fine just because Jimmy made her a living room fort - then I'll call bullshit.

[blixie]

 

I think the complaint about the show's treatment of depression is that it hasn't been funny.

 

It's interesting to me because Crazy Ex-Girlfriend DID find a way to be realistic AND funny about Rebecca's depression, including the joke numb as the come about  how many kinds of medication she was on to feel "normal" and be focused/productive, and that she didn't want to do that whole therapy thing again.

 

I'm finding the whole story line a mixed bag, try hard and yes a bit having it both ways irresponsible. they want you to take this VERY seriously, and Aya Cash is killing that, but then yeah they have no one around Gretchen behave realistically when confronted by her increasing emotional despondency, a boop on the nose after she almost got you killed and then claimed she was bored, is not consistent with the Lindsey who was sensitive to Gretchen being in a downturn and encouraged her to tell Jimmy. I get that they're not responsible people, but I'm watching because I think they care about each other, Linds blowing that off felt contrived to serve up Jimmy the breakthrough moment.

 

But I loved the breath through moment just the same, and I do think the depth/length of this despression is supposed to be new.

[Eyes High]

It's interesting to me because Crazy Ex-Girlfriend DID find a way to be realistic AND funny about Rebecca's depression

 

I'm pretty sure there's a whole subgenre of humour nonfiction devoted to writers and comedians writing mordantly funny memoirs either incidentally or primarily about their struggles with depression. Realistic, humorous takes on depression are not hard to find, either on TV or in other media.

 

I get that they're not responsible people, but I'm watching because I think they care about each other, Linds blowing that off felt contrived to serve up Jimmy the breakthrough moment.

 

While I'm bagging on the realism of this storyline, I question the realism of Lindsay sticking by Gretchen after having seen it happen before. From what we know of Lindsay and Gretchen's friendship, when they were younger it appeared to be based on a shared love of partying and irresponsible behaviour (they reminisce fondly about one of them snorting K off the other's "vadge"). We also know that Lindsay encourages Gretchen to live it up (she gets genuinely excited about Gretchen's invitation to party on a private plane) and even gets angry when Gretchen refuses to join her in partying (end of Season 1). Given all that and what we know of Lindsay and Gretchen, is it realistic that Lindsay would have stuck around the first time Gretchen had one of these episodes and lost her interest in partying and going out? It seems more likely that Lindsay would have ditched Gretchen the minute she stopped being "fun" and "interesting" and kept to her bed. In my observation of similar situations with popular friends of mine who were going through crises that dampened their enthusiasm for partying or going out, the fun-loving party girls who had eagerly proclaimed themselves my friends' BFFs were the first ones to bail when the shit hit the fan and my friends stopped being "fun." They had no interest whatsoever in dealing with someone in crisis, since that was too serious and heavy for them, and they all mysteriously evaporated when my friends desperately needed real emotional support. Now, I don't think that she's a bad person, but I don't see anything about Lindsay to suggest that she's any different. It seems completely out of character that she would have stayed and supported Gretchen the first time she saw this happen to her.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Eyes High