People in charge (supposedly)

[caracas1914]

I do wonder if Ryan had resentment because the Original Cast didn't want to tour anymore.

 

When you think about it, if the Noobs had been successful, how disposable would have been the cast that was left?   One would think that Ryan would have kept
Lea, Cory, Naya, Chris and eventually Darren in the NY side, but other than Lea, I wonder how invested he would have been in keeping them as actual leads...

 

Rumors were flying that Matt was even more persona non grata when he refused to tour with the kids in the summer concerts.

[Pink ranger]

Matt was allowed to perform his own song in the season 2 finale, which was related to what he did that summer, promoting and touring with his first album so the producers didn't seem annoyed with him about that. His screentime began deminishing long before that anyway, s2 featured him about 40% less than the previously one.

[Sara2009]

The rumors were about Matt wanting to leave( which he denied), but I don't recall anything about him being persona non grata. I don't think the speculation about that began until the " Glee" spoof on " The New Normal."

Edited January 6, 2015 by Sara2009

[LydiaMoon1]

Someone also asked Falchuk who wrote and direct 6x06. His response? "I don't remember."

These people really don't care anymore.

 

Honestly, these people stopped caring a long time ago.  My hypothesis is that the end began when the cast revolted against participating in all those tours and movies and their gravy train slowed to a crawl.  Suddenly everybody found other things to do, and their disinterest has only continued to grow.  Maybe they hoped  the 2.0 Noobs would give them another golden ticket, but, when that didn't happen, they gave up altogether. 

 

I recall being shocked at how poorly episodes like Bashed and Tested were put together.  The writing was weak and disjointed.  The direction was bad.  The pacing was teririble.  The song staging was awkward and sloppy.  I still thought the cast did well, but everything involving the production of the show was incompetent, like they turned the show's production over to a bunch of drunken interns.

[ChaChaSlide]

Not sure how to respond to the author directly, but I saw this quote and wanted to provide clarification

Quinn, who didn't even come back for her ex-boyfriend's funeral! (I'm sure Dianna Agron had a very good reason but it was still weird.)

Dianna was not asked back to appear in that episode, according to her interview in the New York Post

“Glee” showrunner Ryan Murphy announced that the third episode of the upcoming season, which debuts Sept. 26, will be a tribute to Monteith and his character. Agron, who was reduced from a series regular to appear in just three episodes last season, was not asked to participate in the memorial show. In fact, the actress isn’t certain she’ll be back at all this season.

Ryan Murphy says it wasn't a matter of inviting people, it was a matter of them asking to come back.

“When you write something like that there’s no right way to do it. So we wrote it. We put people who were under contract to the show in it. And a lot of the actors contacted me and said, I just loved him so much can I just please be a part of it? So we put those people in.”

At the most positive end of the spectrum, it was just a matter of an oversight/miscommunication. At the most negative, it was a deliberate move by Ryan because he has something against Dianna. With the meta way they managed to diss Naya by making her sing an Ariana Grande song, i'm willing to bet dollars to donuts things were at the more fractious end of the spectrum. I mean even if Dianna didnt grovel her way back into the episode, who in their right mind wouldnt invite a person who played such an important part to Finn's storyline? I've never heard of an actor/actress having to ask for their role back in this type of an episode, they're's typically an open invitation for core cast members, past and present to return for memorial/reunion type episodes. Dianna must've felt distinctly uncomfortable if she was waiting for a specific invitation back, she must not have felt welcome to just return. I couldve swore I read that he was very very hard to work for, but this is pure speculation. The whole thing was just handled in a very messy confusing way.

TL;DR, Dianna did not willfully skip the reunion, she was not invited back.

[ComfySweater]

TL;DR, Dianna did not willfully skip the reunion, she was not invited back.

That whole thing about how she didn't beg to be included was ass covering. She showed at related events. She clearly cared. The entire situation was as hard for her as it was for everybody else. Actors aren't the decision makers. How much they grovel to be included in things is just not how tv works. That was some of the strangest spin ever.

[tom87]

The  "I"  in RIB, Ian Brennen has quietly dropped off the map.

 

Not that I blame him.

Edited January 10, 2015 by tom87

[caracas1914]

Ian is involved in the upcoming Scream Queens anthology, but not in AHS or the Crime Series Ryan and Brad are working on.

[tom87]

Ian is involved in the upcoming Scream Queens anthology, but not in AHS or the Crime Series Ryan and Brad are working on.

I know I meant in relation to glee.

[heyerchick]

What do you mean? In every scene from the show and all the promo photos Darren is taller than Chris Colfer! (rolling my eyes here)

 

Chris Colfer is approximately 5'10" - Darren Criss is approximately 5'7". He looks 'taller' in the scenes from the show because they were intentionally shot in such a way as to make him look taller, and in the promos because photo shop. Try looking at photos of the two of them on the red carpet together, which haven't been faked.

Edited January 10, 2015 by heyerchick

[shantown]

Chris Colfer is approximately 5'10" - Darren Criss is approximately 5'7". He looks 'taller' in the scenes from the show because they were intentionally shot in such a way as to make him look taller, and in the promos because photo shop. Try looking at photos of the two of them on the red carpet together, which haven't been faked.

Sorry, the sarcasm didn't transfer apparently. I think it's ridiculous they make Kurt seem shorter in order to Blaine be the taller Alpha Gay. I wish they'd let Kurt be his own, taller person - away from Darren.

[heyerchick]

I thought you were being sarcastic, but decided asking you if you were being serious was condescending ;)

[indeed]

Sorry, the sarcasm didn't transfer apparently. I think it's ridiculous they make Kurt seem shorter in order to Blaine be the taller Alpha Gay. I wish they'd let Kurt be his own, taller person - away from Darren.

Why would they do that? Blaine/DC is the one to focus on. Who cares about actual real-life heights?

[tom87]

Why would they do that? Blaine/DC is the one to focus on. Who cares about actual real-life heights?

 

To keep up the illusion that Blaine is the catch of the pair? 

[jaytee1812]

To keep up the illusion that Blaine is the catch of the pair?

Or that he's the 'alpha-gay' the athletic, 'straight looking', one of the two. Which they can't do as Chris is taller and more muscular.*

*there's nothing wrong with the way Darren looks, just Chris is taller and more muscular.

[heyerchick]

Why would they do that? Blaine/DC is the one to focus on. Who cares about actual real-life heights?

 

'Blaine/DC is the one to focus on' for some fans. Clearly not for others, or it wouldn't have been necessary to stand Blaine/DC on so many boxes along the way...

[indeed]

'Blaine/DC is the one to focus on' for some fans. Clearly not for others, or it wouldn't have been necessary to stand Blaine/DC on so many boxes along the way...

Oh, I know. Again, we need a sarcasm identifier. LOL

There is nothing wrong with the way DC looks (except the unfortunate need to plaster Blaine's hair with too much gel)...or CC. One just happens to be taller than the other--so why make the tall one the shorter one?? It matters to somebody... Will DC fans really abandon ship if he's presented as the shorter one? It's just silly.

[caracas1914]

Let's not even go there with the height issue and all the implications on the Klaine pairing.

However I will say that the pairing with Blaine/Karofsky solves that issue, short of a ladder no need to pretend there it's logistically impossible.

Edited January 10, 2015 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

When I mentally list all of the billions and billions of choices and decisions and stories and scenes and song choices and singer choices etc. etc. that have enraged me about this show, the top of the list, the one thing that if I think of it when I'm sitting at a red light I just get so so so so angry is Kurt and kerchiefs.  I hate them with the fire of a thousand suns.  They are the wrong choice for the character, and they are the wrong choice for every viewer who has to look at them.  I want the person or persons responsible to be drummed out of the entertainment business in perpetuity.  I want them to have to publish weekly apologies that try to defend their choice (unsuccessfully, of course, because there is no defense).  I want a video of the last moment of shooting that shows Chris Colfer lighting a bonfire made only of the kerchiefs and then I want the ashes ground up, pulverized and made into a sweater that the person or persons responsible for the kerchiefs has to wear non-stop for 365 days - including when sleeping, showering, swimming, running, walking, shopping, eating...

 

I just hate them so much.

[fakeempress]

Lol, the day you give up on Hummel fashion is a sad day. But I agree, the kerchiefs look silly. He had scarves before, they were nice. I think the current costumer isn't as inventive as Lou Eyrich. Even though some of the Kurt outfits that Lou did were wacky, at least there was a wink in them, or something whimsical. I guess kerchiefs are as far as the present costumer's flight of fantasy can go. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

Frankly the entire wardrobe department from season 4 onwards deserve never to work again. Particularly anyone responsible for choosing the girls' outfits.

If you look at the first three seasons the girls outfits were kind of exaggerated, as they would be, but they were all individuals. You could look at any outfit alone and know which character it was for.

Season 4 starts and it short dresses and skirts all round, except the plus size women who got awful leggings and tops to wear. Look at the recent episodes, Tina and Quinn look like they raided their mother's wardrobe, and they've both been like that since season 3/4. Thankfully they've stopped dressing Rachel liked she walked into Santana's wardrobe, but that new girl Jane looks like she dresses like sixty year old.

Edited January 28, 2015 by jtrattray

[Ceeg]

I don't know, I think Santana and Brittany's styles are pretty specific to them individually. I never understood the drastic change in Tina though.

[Ceeg]

 

I don't get their logic. Kurt was a breakout character, CC himself made the top 100 list for (was it?) Time's most influential people in 2011, there were tons of press about Kurt getting a boyfriend...and then more and more they diminished his importance. Sure, he was a main character and they've all pretty much gotten shafted, but TPTB really mishandled one of their main assets IMO.

 

I honestly think it's because Ryan's ego is so big that he never understood that his writing didn't make the show so popular: the actors playing these characters did. No one paid $50+ to go see Glee in Concert so they could hear Ryan's words. Granted, there are moments for each character where it really does come down to the writing, but IMO the actors built these characters and gave them these little moments for the audience to grab onto, both individually and as a group, for the most part. I think Ryan believed that he could just sub in any actors off the street, and they would be magical and compelling, because he believed his writing was just that good. What he didn't understand is that these actors were turning shit into sugar on a daily basis.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[caracas1914]

I honestly think it's because Ryan's ego is so big that he never understood that his writing didn't make the show so popular: the actors playing these characters did.

 

I don't know the reasons WHY, but to me it's obvious Chris Colfer lost favor or Ryan lost interest in writing for him on the show.  Very obvious.    I don't buy the bullshit that Chris requested a reduced workload (it's not as if he could even work on other acting projects regardless)

 

The critical acclaim Chris got was irrelevant, again  for whatever reasons, unlike say Klaine or Blaine fans, Ryan seemed (to me ) to resent the popularity that Chris/Kurt seemed to generate.

[fakeempress]

Well, we talked about graduation-gate and how Ryan blamed Chris (and Lea/Cory). I think this, and the initial spinoff talks in general, may have been a source of disagreement. I don't think Chris took Ryan's passive aggressive punches in the press lying down. Since then Kurt got more bogged down in Klaine mess. Chris wasn't silent on that either in interviews and I don't remember him gushing about RIB any more, so he got more of the same lol. The interesting thing is who got him the episode writing gig, some speculate it's Fox and not RIB. This may make sense of the constant jabs about his episode since the start of the current season.

Edited February 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

Since then Kurt got more bogged down in Klaine mess, and Chris wasn't silent on that either.

 

I thought it was telling that when Ryan was asked about the actors/characters in Season 6 he mentioned Rachel, Sam and Blaine as SL "heavy" characters.  When asked about Kurt, he said that KLAINE was a major arc.    Not Kurt, Klaine.

[camussie]

My impression is that RM's relationship with Cory soured towards the end of season 1 and his relationship with Chris soured after season 2.  The reason I say after season 1 is when most of the cast was sitting watching the pilot for the DVD commentary RM was surly in general but seemed to be openly hostile to Cory.  

 

For Chris I think it was "graduation-gate" where RM messed up but seems to blame Chris for the resulting media firestorm.  I mean look at what seems to have been the sequence of events:

• Spring 2011 - Cory, Lea, and Chris were approached about the plans for a spin-off but were asked to keep their mouths shut about it. 
• Early July 2011- RM opened his big mouth and said those three would be off the show, which, most people understandably took to mean they would be gone completely.  In that same interview he flat out said he had talked to Lea & Chris and but not Cory but he was sure Cory knew Finn was graduating (my guess is Brad or Ian had talked to Cory)
• Next day - During his Emmy nod interviews Chris was asked about "being off the show" and he continued to be a good company man and not spill the beans about the spin-off by talking around it.  That made it seem that, not only did RM not talk to Cory, but he was lying about talking to Chris
• Late July 2011 - Fox nixed the spin-off due in part to the backlash (although I also think someone at Fox realized that Glee wasn't a strong enough brand to sustain 2 shows) and RM did an interview blaming the backlash on the cast (read Chris) when really it was his own stupid interview that set the whole mess in motion

Edited February 9, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Personally I think it was more  than GraduationGate, if even that, and Chris did get some focus and storylines in Season 3.   What is puzzling is that by Season 4 RIB didn't view him as  a valuable asset worth of SL's and focus.   The WHY we'll probably never know.

 

Ditto Matt and Naya.

[Ceeg]

Like I said about, I think they "why" is because Ryan wanted to usher in the New Class while quietly backgrounding the Old Class. He wanted the Noobs to take off and become as popular and successful as the originals, because that would mean that Ryan's writing transcends actors and chemistry. 

[Myrna123]

Like I said about, I think they "why" is because Ryan wanted to usher in the New Class while quietly backgrounding the Old Class. He wanted the Noobs to take off and become as popular and successful as the originals, because that would mean that Ryan's writing transcends actors and chemistry. 

And I assume there wasn't a single person in Murphy's employment (or Fox's apparently) willing to suggest otherwise. 

 

I can't think of another showrunner in more need of an assistant whose sole job is to just smack the pencil out of Murphy's hand and say, "Absolutely not.  That's the stupidest idea I've ever heard."  No matter what the idea.

[jaytee1812]

I think the focus moved the like of Darren, Chord and Lea possibly because the actors are 'easier' to work with. They don't strike me as the type to make waves.

[Ceeg]

I'm pretty sure that FOX is the only reason that Mark, Amber, and Harry stayed on contract in season 4. And I think they're also the reason why Rachel, Finn, Kurt, and Santana even got any storylines at all. That's all I feel comfortable saying on a public message board, though.

[Pink ranger]

The positive reception that the season 6 newbies have recieved from critics and fans actually makes me think Ryan's recasting vision may have been successfull if he had exercuted it better from seasons 2/3. After so many people called Sammie Ware a rock star after her first episode I could easily see her becoming lead caliber if they had roughly year more to groom her up like they did with say Naya in s 2-3.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Pink ranger

[camussie]

Well Chord made waves before season 3 where from all accounts he demanded to be put on contract like Darren was.  Fox/RM said "see ya"  and my guess he had to come back hat in hand which probably has led to him never challenging RM and team again.  After all through s3 he was still listed as a guest star.   Then S4 came around and they needed bodies to fill the choir room  so he got a contract.  Then Blam! seemed to catch RM's and team's eye so not only was he on contract he was a lead.  

 

And I think they're (Fox) also the reason why Rachel, Finn, Kurt, and Santana even got any storylines at all.

 

 

I could see that for everyone but Rachel.  I think she was always going to remain lead no matter the focus of Glee.  

Edited February 9, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

FWIW, while I do think FOX informed  Ryan and Company that the grand NOOB experiement of Season 4 was ending earl;y in Season 5,  However,  I don't think anyone at FOX insisted that the Noobs get absolutely  zero songs, not even an exit song for the "100" celebration.   I lay that squarely on RIB.

 

My guess is that Ryan blamed the Noobs completely for the lack of success of New Directions. 

Edited February 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

I'm pretty sure that FOX is the only reason that Mark, Amber, and Harry stayed on contract in season 4. And I think they're also the reason why Rachel, Finn, Kurt, and Santana even got any storylines at all. That's all I feel comfortable saying on a public message board, though.

  

So Fox are to blame for the awful New York storylines. Even characters I liked at McKinley were awful in New York. Awful storylines about awful people.

The positive reception that the season 6 newbies have recieved from critics and fans actually makes me think Ryan's recasting vision may have been successfull if he had exercuted it better from seasons 2/3. After so many people called Sammie Ware a rock star after her first I could easily see her becoming lead caliber if they had roughly year more to groom her up like they did with say Naya in s 2-3.

CBS seem to think Melissa can lead a show.

FWIW, while I do think FOX informed  Ryan and Company that the grand NOOB experiement of Season 4 was ending earl;y in Season 5,  However,  I don't think anyone at FOX insisted that the Noobs get absolutely  zero songs, not even an exit song for the "100" celebration.   I lay that squarely on RIB.

 

My guess is that Ryan blamed the Noobs completely for the lack of success of New Directions.

I'm sure that 'joke' about the newbies being forced out of McKinley was meta for them being kicked off the show.

Ah I'm sure it'll not be the last time they work with crazy people!

[caracas1914]

The positive reception that the season 6 newbies have recieved from critics and fans actually makes me think Ryan's recasting vision may have been successfull if he had exercuted it better from seasons 2/3.

 

See to me that's like saying the Pope would do a better job if he wasn't Catholic.

 

Or that the ocean wouldn't be wet. 

[camussie]

FWIW, while I do think FOX informed  Ryan and Company that the grand NOOB experiement of Season 4 was ending earl;y in Season 5,

 

 

I still think after the ratings for 502 came in and demos dropped from 2.0 to 1.6 (a 25% drop) Fox said enough.  This will wrap up with graduation/the 100,  an option I think Fox was keeping in its hip pocket since the newbies were given only 13 episode contracts that June (before Cory passed).  Anyway they were filming "The end of Twerk" when 502 aired and the newbies still had a role.  2 episodes later they were persona non grata with McKinley focusing almost exclusively on Blaine & Sam.

 

My guess is that Ryan blamed the Noobs completely for the lack of success of New Directions.

 

 

Well when he is not blaming Cory's death for it.  

 

The positive reception that the season 6 newbies have recieved from critics and fans actually makes me think Ryan's recasting vision may have been successfull if he had exercuted it better from seasons 2/3.

 

 

The biggest element for it to work has little to do with the kid actors at all.  For it to work Will's role would have had to remain front and center.  The second he became lead on paper only, staying at McKinley, instead of following the grads, was a recipe for failure. Slowly replacing the original cast with newbies would not have been successful unless there was a Coach Taylor like character at the center of the show holding it all together.

Edited February 9, 2015 by camussie

[Ceeg]

 So Fox are to blame for the awful New York storylines. Even characters I liked at McKinley were awful in New York. Awful storylines about awful people.

 

You say 'awful', I say 'the only reason why I even continued to keep up with Glee at all'.

 

Tbh, watching Lea, Chris, and Naya just sit around staring at each other in silence would have been more compelling to me than yet another Theme of the Week in the Choir Room or moar show choir competition drama.

[caracas1914]

So Fox are to blame for the awful New York storylines. Even characters I liked at McKinley were awful in New York. Awful storylines about awful people.

 

 

Fox is probably responsible for the focus going back to the Original Characters in New York.   However Ryan and company wrote the scripts, and in hindsight they used the  seven all New York episodes to burn it to the ground.   Ryan was envisioning a return to McKinley in Season 6 even while writing NY Glee it's clear to me.

 

I know we disagree; IMO  NY Glee was a hell of a lot better than Marley lacking a spine SL"s along with bad boy  by scooter Jacob and Woe is ME  Blake.   Competent actors but sorely lacking in charisma and chemistry as an ensemble.

 

Though Jacob dancing shirtless 24/7  would have been fine with me.

Edited February 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[tom87]

You say 'awful', I say 'the only reason why I even continued to keep up with Glee at all'.

 

Tbh, watching Lea, Chris, and Naya just sit around staring at each other in silence would have been more compelling to me than yet another Theme of the Week in the Choir Room or moar show choir competition drama.

They never let Rachel, Kurt and Santana really have any NY fun.    Even though they were spinng Rachel's story out of control to set up season 6 at least they finally wrote some comedy for them in season 5.   Rachel and Kurt got  very little to  zero comedy in season 4.

Edited February 9, 2015 by tom87

[fakeempress]

Personally I think it was more  than GraduationGate, if even that, and Chris did get some focus and storylines in Season 3.   What is puzzling is that by Season 4 RIB didn't view him as  a valuable asset worth of SL's and focus.   The WHY we'll probably never know.

 

Ditto Matt and Naya.

This is true, but at the same time his non-Klaine or rather competitive stories like WSS, the student elections, NYADA auditions had Kurt on the losing side. 

Edited February 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

I know there's been a lot of comments about Kurt, Mercedes and Artie basically being around this season and not doing very much. I wonder if they were all kept on basically to help give RIB the diversity pat on the back they seem to love.

I mean technically Kevin doesn't give them diversity points but Artie does.

Had Amber not been a regular, you only have two women, both white. And no men of colour at all.

They lose Kurt even if they keep Blaine they lose the only gay actor among the men.

Or are they not that bright?

[LydiaMoon1]

I don't think it's a question of intellect. I think it's a question of arrogance. RIB are arrogant and cunning, and, yes, I absolutely believe that they keep those actors on the books for the sake of appearances.

 

Whatever lesson Glee set out to teach in season one, all it really taught me was never to never trust these clowns with my viewership ever again.

[SevenStars]

I know there's been a lot of comments about Kurt, Mercedes and Artie basically being around this season and not doing very much. I wonder if they were all kept on basically to help give RIB the diversity pat on the back they seem to love.

 

 

I have start to wonder if that isn't the real reason they gave Amber a contract. Because honestly, so far there is no reason for her to get a contract since they don't seem to have any intention of telling Mercedes' story, except for her to be there to push Rachel toward greatness and love.

 

Or many Amber just have better management than I thought. 

[camussie]

I think she got a contract for a couple of reasons.  The biggest one was that she was a good company girl and stepped in when things went sour with Naya in the back half of S5.  I think Mercedes was only supposed to guest a couple of episodes but with Naya written off for a few episodes they kept Amber on for the vocal diversity.  She was loyal to them so in turn they were loyal to her this year.  The other probably is to say see we have minorities as regulars.

[caracas1914]

Let's not forget Amber was saavy enough on her own to make a big splash (and win) on  "Dancing with the Stars."

Edited February 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

I wasn't sure if/where I should post this. It's slightly off topic but it is relevant to discussions in this thread and another about Amber/Mercedes in particular, but could also apply to Alex and Jacob.

I wonder how many of these Glee is guilty of?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/tamerragriffin/loaded-words-coded-meanings-black-people?bftw&utm_term=4ldqpfp#.lyBEGrAxw1

[Glorfindel]

Let's not forget Amber was saavy enough on her own to make a big splash (and win) on  "Dancing with the Stars."

And Chris won his 3rd PCA in a row and became a New York bestseller.

 

So I think part of the reason why these 2 were kept on the show was because they had successes outside of Glee and were proven to have a loyal fanbase, so they could serve as recognizable faces on the show and hopefully draw in some viewers.

 

Heck, in seasons 4 and 5, when 90% of the episodes were focused on the noobs and Blamtina in Lima, they heavily promoted Kurt alongside with Rachel in New York: he was on many of the promo pics and his 1 scene per episode often flashed by in the promo videos, misguiding people in thinking there would be more of Hummelberry in New York in the episode than there really was. Chris even did interviews (with Cory) for one of the Grease episodes, when he wasn't even in it!

 

But Kurt has been not much more than cute windowdressing for 2 seasons, and that seems to continue in season 5, with the added bonus that the writers sneak in at least one dig at him (Kurt or Chris: take your pick) per episode now.

 

I think they kept Kevin as regular because Kevin was starting to get several gigs outside of the show, some of them in England. So in order to keep him available for Glee at all times whenever they wanted him they never let him out of his contract or offered him a guest star status, as the other originals being guest stars now is probably complicating things for production (as Glee has to work their schedule around the actors now).

Edited February 9, 2015 by Glorfindel

[jaytee1812]

I think they kept Kevin as regular because Kevin was starting to get several gigs outside of the show, some of them in England. So in order to keep him available for Glee at all times whenever they wanted him they never let him out of his contract or offered him a guest star status, as the other originals being guest stars now is probably complicating things for production (as Glee has to work their schedule around the actors now).

Kevin's game show broadcasts in the UK, not just England. They're not the same thing.