People in charge (supposedly)

[CleoCaesar]

Didn't Ryan Murphy also create the snarky teen comedy Popular and promptly run it into the ground after a successful first season (sound familiar?)? He has a history of starting strong and then just destroying things due to his enormous ego and the fact that he has the attention span of a mosquito. If he has to make more shows (not that I'll be watching any more of them), he should stick to shows that reboot after every season (like AHS) or standalone TV movies (like A Normal Heart).

[caracas1914]

So to me, that means that this is something the industry assume/knew about long before Glee fall like it did.

 

 

Which is why many questioned even at the time Reilly and FOX giving the show a 2 year renewal when the numbers were declining.  I doubt FOX or any other network will ever give Ryan and company a two year renewal again.  There are a lot of showrunners with more impressive numbers, such as ABC Sondra Rhimes whose shows do not get multiple year renewals. 

 

What really dried  up quickly was the perception that Glee was tapped into the youth market, the social media skews things and even now Glee doesn't get much buzz, certainly nothing compared to Little Pretty Liars, Teen wolf, The Vampire Diaries, etc.

[bjork]

Ryan and his husband David recently had their second child, a son. His name is Ford.

[camussie]

FX has greenlit another Ryan Murphy show.  This one will be a fictionalized anthology about true crimes

 

http://tvline.com/2014/10/07/american-crime-story-series-order-ryan-murphy-fx/

 

I think this is one of the reasons Fox indulged him so much with Glee the last few seasons - not so much because of Glee's success itself but rather because they didn't want to sour the working relationship with someone they consider one of their more successful show creators.  They obviously view the 2 year renewal a mistake but I wonder if the rest, including indulging his attempt to make a second generation of Glee stars, they view as simply keeping a "talent" happy especially since Kevin Reilly was also on board for trying to "franchise" glee before season 4 began.

Edited October 7, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Well I guess the take on Ryan Murphy is you now give him "anthology" series where he can't screw things up narratively beyond one season. 

[camussie]

Anthology series fit much better with his creative strengths.  To me there is no denying he has a talent for developing interesting show concepts and even getting them off to a decent start but he simply has no talent for sustaining a multi-season narrative.  He barely can do it over 13 episodes.  He is fortunate that his active years as producer and writer are in a time where shorter seasons and binge watching are more and more prevalent.  

[Myrna123]

Anthology series fit much better with his creative strengths. 

Although not one based on, like, actual facts or anything.  Or, sensitive issues like, say, the murder of people whose family members are alive and well.  Can't imagine how Murphy will see fit to "punish" relatives of crime victims if they are anything less than over the moon about his portrayal of a particular historical event.  I can hear the soundbite now.  "The Simpson and Goldman families are just a bunch of haters who don't understand my artistic vision."  Blech.

[tom87]

Ryan and Brad were named to THR's Top 50 Showrunners list. Opps named for just AHS not glee....

 

Ryan Murphy and Brad Falchuk American Horror Story (FX)

Strangest fan interaction (Murphy): "I had a scary one. My [first] baby was a month old, and my doorbell rang at 11:30 at night. It was a crazed Glee fan who demanded I read a treatment for an episode she'd done. When I asked her to leave, she would not, so the SWAT team came. It was a two-hour ordeal. That was probably my weirdest one. She later fled the country and wrote me a letter of apology. At least she apologized, it was a very sweet, awful letter basically saying, 'Sorry I woke your baby. I was just so passionate about Kurt.' But for that horrible one, there's a lot more great ones."

 

Three things you'll find in the writers room (Murphy): "We keep a lot of vitamins, a lot of pens and some very bizarre things that fans have sent in — like macaroni portraits of the cast. We prop them up for inspiration. They're sweet. They show that people really have a connection to the work."

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/person/ryan-murphy-brad-falchuk

Edited October 8, 2014 by tom87

[heyerchick]

Oh, god. She had to go and be a Kurt fan, didn't she...

[tab19]

 

"It was a crazed Glee fan who demanded I read a treatment for an episode she'd done."

Maybe this is where the Glee writers get their story ideas?  Could explain this season, in particular...

[caracas1914]

So RIB are now seen as "anthology specialists"

 

http://deadline.com/2014/10/ryan-murphy-scream-queens-comedic-horror-anthology-series-fox-855641/
 

American Horror Story meets Glee. In their first big move on the scripted side at Fox, Fox TV Group chairmen Dana Walden and Gary Newman have given a 15-episode straight-to-series order to one of their most trusted creators at 20th Century Fox TV, Ryan Murphy. With Glee wrapping its run on Fox, the network has ordered comedy-horror anthology Scream Queens, from Glee creators Murphy, Brad Falchuk and Ian Brennan. This marks the second straight-to-series order for an anthology series for Murphy and Falchuk on the heels of FX greenlighting an American Crime Story spinoff from the duo’s hugely successful horror anthology series American Horror Story.
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The first installment of Scream Queens, created by Murphy, Falchuk and Brennan, revolves around a college campus which is rocked by a series of murders. 20th Century Fox Television and Murphy’s studio-based Murphy Television produce, with Murphy, Falchuk, Brennan and Dante Di Loreto executive producing.

“I knew I wanted to work with Brad and Ian again on something comedic, and we are having a blast writing Scream Queens,”said Murphy who revealed details about the setup of the series. “We hope to create a whole new genre – comedy-horror – and the idea is for every season to revolve around two female leads. We’ve already begun a nationwide search for those women, as well as 10 other supporting roles, and we’re very grateful to Dana and Gary for their enthusiastic support.”

Longtime 20th TV toppers Walden and Newman said that getting a new series created by Murphy on Fox was a top priority in their first season overseeing the network.  “We loved every element of the pitch for this show — the genre-bending concept, which blends true horror with big comedic moments; the diverse and unforgettable characters and reuniting the phenomenal creative team that delivered Glee,” they said, adding that the straight-to-series order is “a huge commitment and an expression of our faith in Ryan.”

 

Edited October 20, 2014 by caracas1914

[Myrna123]

 

revolves around a college campus which is rocked by a series of murders.

Well who can't make that hilarious?  I think most of us can agree that college students being murdered does usually bring both horror and "big comedic moments," and who better than RIB to meld those two aspects of dying violently before your time?

[jjjmoss]

I don't have any confidence that Murphy & co. can juggle 3 anthology shows at the same time. 

 

AHS is bigger than most of Fox's shows though, so I suppose it makes sense that they're willing to bet big on him.

[caracas1914]

I don't have any confidence that Murphy & co. can juggle 3 anthology shows at the same time.

 

 

American Horror Story's ratings are apparently  stronger than ever, and I think all these series are for 13-15 episode orders, so that helps I suppose. 

[tom87]

This one is also different that Ian is involved.  Only Brad and Ryan do AHS and maybe the new one.

 

I think because they are anthologies he and his entire production company plus Brad's production company can handle multiple projects. 

[Cranberry]

I'd be excited about the idea of an anthology series with two female leads if I had any confidence in RIB's ability to write women.

[caracas1914]

What does everyone think about them likely finishing filming all the episodes before any air? Good idea? Bad idea? They did the same thing with the front 13 of season 1, but the show now is vastly different than it was then.

 

 

The  showrunners didn't have a choice.  FOX determined the number of episodes, and more importantly , when the show would start airing, aka midseason.   It was basically IMO a vote of no confidence by FOX that Glee would be at  all that important in ratings or scheduling.   FOX probably had to honor the two year renewal but with a mid season 13 episode order it was more damage control than anything.    They didn't give  a rat's ass how their decision impacted Glee's dwindling audience all that much since the finale of Season 5 garnered a miserable .6 rating.

 

Any other show would have been cancelled. 

 

I do think that it's good they can't  throw even more meta comments per audience feedback, since that never seems to go well beyond flipping a finger at the most hardcore fans.

Edited November 12, 2014 by caracas1914

[Bill1978]

I admit that I had high hopes for season 6 because I continue to feel the strongest batch of episdes were the first ever 13. In hindsight it was because they actually were able to plot everything out AND just use songs that matched the story. It felt like the stories were written first and songs added later. After it was picked up to be a true series I felt that suddenly it was songs were chosen first and then the stories written around the songs. Now this wouldn't normally bother me, but when you are purely choosing what song is hot 1 week ago, the big picture story suffers. It got to the point where it was clear there was no direction with this show. They were writing this show 5 minutes before the camera rolled. Whatever matched the mood of the set and writers at that moment, screw what happened before in the story I thought perhaps with Season 6 being in a similar situation it could end on a high, but all the spoilers indicate that the writers are really jst given up caring. The only thing that I can hold onto is that I know that whatever song is hot in early 2015 won't slip into the show just ot appear cool. Hopefully Season 6 at least has the stories didcating what is to happen as opposed to a trendy song.

[Casual Viewing]

I really feel sorry for the actors on Glee. The writers have failed them big time. No actor can salvage the shitfest they've been given over the last few seasons. No character continuity, no plot continuity or any plot lately at all for that matter. They are just puppets with mean, sadistic puppeteers yanking them around. I sure hope they get a decent wage for what they've had to endure and I hope someone writes a tell all book soon.

[caracas1914]

http://www.eonline.com/news/597867/glee-bosses-drop-scoop-on-kurt-and-blaine-s-ending?cmpid=sn-000000-twitterfeed-365-kristin&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_kristin&dlvrit=51396

 

Glee showrunners/writers explain all...

"You have to have obstacles to have a happy ending," Murphy explains. "I’ve spent a year learning what they want. We have a list in the writers’ room that says, ‘What do the fans want to end that show?’ And our endings are all very uplifting, and I think by the end of it, people will be ecstatic and really thrilled by how things turn out. I am."

 

 

Do they really know what the fans want?  

[Hana Chan]

http://www.eonline.com/news/597867/glee-bosses-drop-scoop-on-kurt-and-blaine-s-ending?cmpid=sn-000000-twitterfeed-365-kristin&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitterfeed_kristin&dlvrit=51396

 

 

Do they really know what the fans want?  

 

Considering that Glee has sunk from a peak of over 13 million viewers per episode to finishing up season 5 with under 2 million, I think that it's safe to say "no", they don't know what the fans want. Glee is now finishing behind shows on the CW network (and not even behind one of their top rated shows like Supernatural or The Flash), so that is a real accomplishment.

 

Glee was never Tolstoy, but it had (for the most part) decent writing that kept characterization and continuity in mind (at least for the first two seasons). Then it started relying in gimmicks rather than smart writing. We got stunt cast guest stars, "tribute" episodes (where the storylines were tortured to fit into the musical numbers), storylines that meandered and went no where (like the Ryder/Unique "catfishing" story) and as the cherry on the shit cake - Rachel's magical Broadway adventures which ruined her character. It's a pity that FOX was tied into their renewal agreement and couldn't just cancel the show outright because it more than deserves to be chopped.

[camussie]

I think they kept characterization and continuity in mind for the first 13 episodes and somewhat for the second 9.  Season 2 it went out the window with Finn, Quinn, and Rachel all suffering from the writers ADD.  

[Casual Viewing]

After the first season I never felt the writers had any kind of set storyboard or game plan. It was as if they just threw stuff together either on a whim or because their attention was caught by some new novalty or fandom suggestion. They started and abandoned so many plots or else rushed through them that it gave me mental whiplash. Character continuity is a foreign concept to them.

I cannot understand why anyone would continue to hire these show runners/writers. Personally, I'm now blacklisting any program that has Ryan Murphy's name attached to it. He has no clue on following through on his concepts, and I hate his portrayal of "healthy" relationships, and his disdain for women.

[caracas1914]

I there is there is a reason why all  the Ryan/Brad  series that are going to be airing next year are only "anthology" series, that is rebooted after one season with new characters, SL's,etc.    The  networks aren't pretending they have any more follow through than 13 or less episodes in a season. 

[fakeempress]

Well, what Brad (I think?) practically admitted they're doing in the last Glee season

, is a reboot. And so far we have some of the actors play characters who are effectively unrecognizable from past seasons.

 

Edited November 16, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

This last interviews sounds so much like damage control as if they might have a tiny kernel of realization how pissed the fandoms are with them.

Of course the pungent whiff of desperation could just be the usual after shave scent of hubris from these showrunners.

Edited November 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[fakeempress]

It also sounds to me like Ryan's putting "the fans" on the hook for the coming trainwreck, like he foisted the newbies fail on Cory. 

[Glorfindel]

It also sounds to me like Ryan's putting "the fans" on the hook for the coming trainwreck, like he foisted the newbies fail on Cory. 

Exactly.

 

And how he said that everyone from the old cast could always come back after season 3, giving the impression that it was solely the choice of the original castmembers that some of them were leaving the show and in how many episodes they would be in seasons 4 and 5.

(which I don't think is true except for Dianna)

 

In a way Ryan also blamed mainly Chris and some of the rest of the cast who were to be in the spin-off for it being cancelled (Chris by saying he was fired in the media [which he never did], and some of the intended spin-off cast not being willing to move to New York), trying to paint them as ungrateful children to sugar-daddy RyRy so now he would take their new toy away, when it was his own big mouth that started that whole mess.

[tom87]

The cast was let go plain and simple they had no choice even Dianna.  If RIB wanted to write for them they would have they got the choice of limited regular or guest.

 

Same thing Ryan saying it was all Lea's decision if they came back for season 5.  Sure she had a real choice with hundreds of people jobs in the balance,  Her choice if anything was when they would return.

 

Of course the newbies on Cory and now the fans. 

 

I sure would like to see this "list" of what they think the fans wanted.

[Sara2009]

I think Dianna genuinely wanted to leave anyway, though.

[jaytee1812]

The thing I find odd about that is that RM seems to have a great deal of loyalty from actors. I mean over six seasons no regular actor has completely left the show, they come back whenever they're asked. I mean there's several of the original cast you wouldn't have been surprised to find had 'scheduling conflicts' when asked to return, but with the exception of Harry, who genuinely was filming halfway round the world, they all came back. Not only that there hasn't been so much as a side-eye from the newbie actors about the way they were sidelined. 

 

And it's not just this cast. I mean I get in season 2/3 when Glee was hot they got big stars. But even in season 4 he has Katey Segal and Aisha Tyler basically doing bit parts, Matt Bomer said he didn't even read a script before agreeing to appear in AHS. 

 

So whatever he does behind the scenes people seem to like him.

Edited November 19, 2014 by jtrattray

[tom87]

I think Dianna genuinely wanted to leave anyway, though.

Never the less if they wanted to write for he they would have kept her.   I do not think she was on the list to keep in the long run no matter her position.  They were going to graduate some, keep some for a spin off. 

The thing I find odd about that is that RM seems to have a great deal of loyalty from actors. I mean over six seasons no regular actor has completely left the show, they come back whenever they're asked. I mean there's several of the original cast you wouldn't have been surprised to find had 'scheduling conflicts' when asked to return, but with the exception of Harry, who genuinely was filming halfway round the world, they all came back. Not only that there hasn't been so much as a side-eye from the newbie actors about the way they were sidelined. 

 

And it's not just this cast. I mean I get in season 2/3 when Glee was hot they got big stars. But even in season 4 he has Katey Segal and Aisha Tyler basically doing bit parts, Matt Bomer said he didn't even read a script before agreeing to appear in AHS. 

 

So whatever he does behind the scenes people seem to like him.

It could be a case of don't burn bridges but I do think if you are loyal to him he is loyal to you.   With everyone you have to learn to work with a wide variety of personilties some may get him and some may not.

Edited November 19, 2014 by tom87

[Sara2009]

I think Ryan is just polarizing. I've heard of plenty of actors despising him. He has a huge ego, and not everyone can deal with that.

Even the ones who dislike him are probably willing to work with him because he's a powerful man in Hollywood. I don't think we'll ever know even half of what goes on behind the scenes, though.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Sara2009

[caracas1914]

That's par for the course for most showrunners, whereas most HW actors don't have the luxury to pick and choose. I think it also depends on chemistry, FWIW, most of the leading actors of " Popular" and " Nip/Tuck" haven't worked all that much with Ryan since.

Jessica has, but she wasn't a lead on Nip/Tuck and then there was the Santa from "Popular" in Season 5 for a one shot appearance.

Edited November 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[Sara2009]

I think the " Nip/Tuck" cast really don't like Ryan. I haven't heard details, but the rumor is that Ryan was an absolute nightmare on that set.

[fakeempress]

There was some purported first-hand account from talking to Dylan Walsh, that in Nip/Tuck's later seasons Ryan and the actors hated each other, and the actors wanted off the show but couldn’t leave. By that time, the writing had gone to shit, the characters were unrecognizable, meanwhile Ryan had directed a movie and basically was distracted by new shiny things. Sounds pretty familiar.   

[caracas1914]

Director David O. Russel, according to George Clooney, was an absolute asshole with  how he treated cast and crew during the shooting of "3 Kings".  However he's very successful (even the 3 Kings movie got critical raves) and no less a prickly personality as Christopher Bale has worked with him on several films so it really just depends.   I doubt as long as he gets TV shows on the air that most actors will embargo Ryan Murphy productions.

[jaytee1812]

There was some purported first-hand account from talking to Dylan Walsh, that in Nip/Tuck's later seasons Ryan and the actors hated each other, and the actors wanted off the show but couldn’t leave. By that time, the writing had gone to shit, the characters were unrecognizable, meanwhile Ryan had directed a movie and basically was distracted by new shiny things. Sounds pretty familiar.   

 

Shouldn't the glee cast be like that by now, but they all seem to still love him. I mean I don't read blind items but you usually hear if the cast/showrunners don't get on. 

[caracas1914]

While a show is still airing you rarelyt hear those stories.

 

Most actors keep their mouths shut because they realize it's potentially career suicide to bad mouth powerful show runners.

 

Katherine Heigle has to constantly apologize in public these days for bad mouthing Shonda Rhimes and Grey's Anatomy with her infamous public  disdain for the show and her role of Izzy years back.

 

I'm sure some of the cast loves Ryan Murphy, some hate him , and some are ambivalent, but that pretty much describes most successful TV show runners.

Edited November 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

No-one says anything publicly, but there usually is gossip. And even if no-one says anything you'll usually see a 'cooling' publicly. But this cast jump at the chance to come back, and it seems more than 'they're being paid to'.

[fakeempress]

Shouldn't the glee cast be like that by now, but they all seem to still love him. I mean I don't read blind items but you usually hear if the cast/showrunners don't get on. 

I think some of them have a more ambivalent relationship with him by now, not that it's 100% same case as N/T. There is a difference, the young Glee cast was mostly plucked from obscurity and the show (and the tours) gave them enormous exposure, they can't not be grateful for that chance. The main N/T cast was of more established actors, even those who were "hey' it's this guy/gal". 

 

 

And even if no-one says anything you'll usually see a 'cooling' publicly. But this cast jump at the chance to come back, and it seems more than 'they're being paid to'.

I think we've noticed some cooling, the honeymoon period is gone, except let's say for rah-rah Darren & Lea. Also, we don't really know what are the fine-print financial /contractual arrangements behind the coming-backs. 

Edited November 19, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

But this cast jump at the chance to come back, and it seems more than 'they're being paid to'.

 

 

I think, the relatively  young  Original Glee cast itself bonded pretty tightly back in the day.  So a paying gig to get back with friends who are almost family is sort of a no brainer.  I don't think Ryan is worse than most showrunners, I just dont' think he's an exceptional Mother Teresa either.

Edited November 19, 2014 by caracas1914

[Sara2009]

It's entirely possible that some of the people return due to loving their cast mates. I don't think it necessarily says anything about their feelings toward Ryan Murphy.

[tab19]

I have to think there's also an element - for some of them - of realizing that whether they knew it or not, they had a good gig on Glee, in terms of a steady income.  Several (Naya, Amber, Darren?) have had record deals that have never quite come together yet or been cancelled, so maybe others have had opportunities dry up now that they're not hot properties.  

 

I mean, we don't know what happened at the end of the last year when Naya got written out of the season finale, but presumably she *wanted* to come back or she'd just be gone forever?  And if Naya can overcome whatever that was, it certainly argues that others could overcome any differences as well. 

[tom87]

I think some of them have a more ambivalent relationship with him by now, not that it's 100% same case as N/T. There is a difference, the young Glee cast was mostly plucked from obscurity and the show (and the tours) gave them enormous exposure, they can't not be grateful for that chance. The main N/T cast was of more established actors, even those who were "hey' it's this guy/gal". 

 

I think we've noticed some cooling, the honeymoon period is gone, except let's say for rah-rah Darren & Lea. Also, we don't really know what are the fine-print financial /contractual arrangements behind the coming-backs. 

Chord and some of the crew are the only ones who constantly tweet about glee any more.  Lea doesn't nearly as much as she did in the past it seems to be mostly more about big moment events than daily stuff for her.   Darren doesn't really that i has seen   Naya had done more % wise for the amount she is actually in the show  than Lea or Darren tbh.

Edited November 19, 2014 by tom87

[fakeempress]

Darren has never been much of a twitterer. I had in mind their interviews and random media soundbites.

Edited November 19, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

I think most of the original Glee tweet here and there when they are on set. Chris probably tweets the least about Glee when filming.

[heyerchick]

To be fair to Chris, he *is* owned by a fucking awesome cat :)

Edited November 22, 2014 by heyerchick

[Hana Chan]

If the cast is smart, their focus will be less on trying to promote this dead show and more about wrangling and promoting their new projects. They don't have anything to gain at this point by continuing to be associated with Glee. Indeed, with the total joke Glee has devolved into, being too closely associated can hurt them in the long run. They're halfway done filming Glee for the season. I would hope that they've laid out the groundwork for their post-Glee careers by this point.

[tom87]

Glee is still their job so no need to burn bridges or forget the fans even the crazy ones the have stayed loyal for years.  So slapping up a picture once a week at this point is not hurting anyone.  I don t see how taking 10 seconds to post something  is losing focus on their future endeavors.

 

If they choose not to, fine, but I certainly am not going to condemn them for communicating with glee fans still.  And on the flip side if they chose not to talk about glee am I going to act like they are smarted or better for it. 

Edited November 22, 2014 by tom87