People in charge (supposedly)

[Hana Chan]

It's not a question of burning bridges, but knowing where your priorities need to be. No one in the media is taking Glee seriously at this point. It's become an open joke with the way the network plans to rush the series off the air. There's no need to badmouth the show or the showrunners (which would cause bad feelings and "burn bridges"), but there's also no point in wasting energy trying to promote a show that has no future. The actors need to do their jobs are far as promotion goes (the photo ops, interviews, etc), but I don't see any value in using their personal social media and tightening the impression of having too close an association with a show that is DOA. Not even RIB is spending much energy promoting Glee at this stage, and FOX certainly isn't going to invest any real effort (or money). Why should the actors stick their necks out (and their professional reputations) to play cheerleader at this point?

 

The cast has maybe two months (tops) work left on Glee. They have got to start having things lined up for afterwards at this stage. We know that Chris and Kevin both have films and Lea will very likely have a second album to work on. They would be smart at this point to start talking about Glee more in the past tense (how much they loved it, the pride in the work they did, etc) and start looking to the future. RIB have already moved on. If the cast doesn't keep their eye on the future, for some of them Glee might very well be the high points of their careers.

[Anna Yolei]

I think they kept characterization and continuity in mind for the first 13 episodes and somewhat for the second 9. Season 2 it went out the window with Finn, Quinn, and Rachel all suffering from the writers ADD.

Season 2 Quinn grated. It was like the pregnancy and the fall from grace never happened. The way she was acting in the beginning of season three with cutting her hair off and distancing herself from the Unholy Trinity? THAT is what I expected in season two.

[dizzyizzy01]

The actors need to do their jobs are far as promotion goes (the photo ops, interviews, etc), but I don't see any value in using their personal social media and tightening the impression of having too close an association with a show that is DOA.

 

 

They're tied to glee no matter what.  To non-fans, most of these actors are "hey that kid from glee!"  That's what every single of these actors are most well known for.  A quick BTS twitter pic does not hurt them in any way and gives their fans something to see.  They still have fans, even if a lot of them don't watch the show anymore.  It's smart to continue to engage them.  But in the end, It's really not that big a deal one way or another.

[fakeempress]

I was reading the Sony email leaks on Gawker, and omg how I wish there is a follow-up leak at Fox TV. 

[tab19]

An honest third party account of what's gone on behind the scenes at Glee (actors, actresses, writers, everybody) has been my fondest wish for years.  I bet the emails/stories would be JUST as interesting and possibly just as vitriolic as those Sony emails.  Well, at least to Glee fans, since admittedly there's no one as famous as Angelina Jolie at Glee. 

 

(And thanks for the Gawker tip - what a fun (horrifying?) read.  I was reminded, AGAIN, of the first rule of emails:  Never put anything in an email you don't want to get out...)

[Sara2009]

I don't know. Sometimes I think it's better to not know the bad things about celebrities you like.

[tom87]

I just want them to entertain me.  I know in my life I am sure people could re-account some things that make me look  bad too.   The he said, she said stuff is all still so subjective.

 

A tell all says more about the person writing it then who is in it imo.

[fakeempress]

What could a tell-all potentially say about the character of some people on Glee that hasn't already been said about them by haters online, or by various dubious gossip sites. Tons has been written how for instance Lea is such a diva etc Still, I'll read such a book in a NY minute.

 

The Sony emails, for instance, don't tell me much that I wouldn't think of the egos of star talent like Angelina or Fincher. What I found more fascinating is this is how the power structure works and decisions are made, this is the attitude and power-trips, and the screw-ups which are not in the tabloids and gossip sites or chased by paps in the streets. It's the real life Entourage (I'm not forgetting that Entourage was based on Ari Emmanuel and Marky Mark but it's fascinating how true to life it was). So I was thinking that the behind-the-scenes aspect I'd be most curious about Glee is the dealings between the network brass, RIB, and the talent. There were moments that lifted the veil there quite a bit, like Chord's contract snafu for S3, the "firing" of the NY-cast after S3, Naya's firing, things like that. 

 

I'm also curious how much Chris will fictionalize in this YA book about the actor and his fans, and how much it'll be autobiographical - and if we'll be able to tell. 

Edited December 11, 2014 by fakeempress

[Sara2009]

There's a difference between " haters" whom don't actually know the actors making negative comments and former cast mates doing the same thing.

[fakeempress]

Well, the difference is the veracity and the details. In broad strokes so much has been said about Lea (again, for example) in good and bad terms, so that what a castmate writes about her will probably fall somewhere within this range. --But I get what you're saying, it's not fun to get a first-hand account of a personal favourite that is different from what you imagine them to be.

Edited December 11, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

For the sheer entertainment value I'd love the Baroness himself, Ryan Murphy, to pen a no holds barred, tell-all BTS Glee memoir.

That alone would trigger a dozen books to follow to address his "memories".

[shantown]

For the sheer entertainment value I'd love the Baroness himself, Ryan Murphy, to pen a no holds barred, tell-all BTS Glee memoir.

That alone would trigger a dozen books to follow to address his "memories".

I wouldn't believe a single word of anything he wrote. But I am hoping that someone from the cast writes something a few years down the line, maybe after roles start drying up...

Edited December 12, 2014 by shantown

[fakeempress]

The Sony leak is a gift that keeps on giving. Should the hackers really be North Korean, Dear Leader, please order them to go after Fox TV, and also Columbia Records.

 

http://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewzeitlin/scott-rudin-on-obama-i-bet-he-likes-kevin-hart

[ComfySweater]

I wouldn't believe a single word of anything he wrote. But I am hoping that someone from the cast writes something a few years down the line, maybe after roles start drying up...

He's sure enough of his own genius that he'd write things he thought made him look good that did the exact opposite. It would be fantastic.  I'd love the other perspectives too, but Ryan's warped view of how he's always right and perfect would be well worth reading.

[vanarnd1]

I am a newer fan of Glee who caught up through syndication and it has been interesting reading this thread and seeing when people think the show began to fall off.

 

Season 1 to me was the most consistently written and set a solid foundation that could have been steadily built off of. I still liked Season 2 for the most part but not long afterwards the show began to run out of steam IMO. Storylines would pop up out of nowhere and be dropped just as quickly, the inconsistencies in characters were exposed, retconning history would happen constantly, there were constant "special" and PSA episodes etc.

 

I think the biggest thing that happened is the characters stopped being fun to root for or entertaining. Many of them were written as selfish or so inconsistent that it was hard to really stay invested in what would happen each week(Sue is one who fits this to a tee IMO). Add that to trying to change the focus to the new Glee kids for a Season and a half and I think people just got tired of trying to follow along with the show.

 

I just recently finished Season 5 and by the end I was just happy to be done with it. I will watch Season 6 out of loyalty but I am glad that it is only a mid-season replacement because there is no need for anything more than 13 episodes.

[caracas1914]

I am glad that it is only a mid-season replacement because there is no need for anything more than 13 episodes.

 

 

Airing 13 episodes in 11 weeks on Fridays at 9 PM pretty much spells out that FOX is completely writing off Glee for this season.   The real danger is if it's ratings drop below repeats of Hell's Kitchen or Master Chef Jr. , since there would be a chance that FOX would pull even this abbreviated run from the line up. 

[camussie]

Lea, Darren and Chord must be doing something right, every other character on the show is used to prop up them in some way. Especially Chord and Darren who were brought in as supporting characters.

 

 

For Lea i think it is simply that Rachel has always been the lead female and really since the show started the first among equals as far as the other lead characters (Will and Finn) so of course many of the other characters will be used to support Rachel's story.  It is how they have used them that is awful i.e. calling minority women lazy in comparison to Rachel to underscore that Rachel is the hardest working most talented.  There were ways to write Santana, Tina, and Mercedes supporting Rachel's story without using offensive stereotypes.

 

As for Darren/Blaine I can't be sure but I think he is probably really adept at playing behind the scenes politics. After he got a huge in with the hit that was "Teenage Dream" he has really played the game well.  Frankly I don't begrudge him that.  I blame RM and team for writing based on that.

 

Chord is the really strange one.  On one hand he was already transitioned to being top tier supporting (think Quinn and Puck in season 1)  with McKinley becoming the Blam! show in season 4 after the holiday break but that seemed like it was tied to Sam being Blaine's "bro."  Had nothing else changed, once Blaine graduated and moved to NY I am not sure Sam would have remained so prominent.  Things did change though - Cory passed and since they had already introduced the idea that Sam was Finn 2.0 back in season 2 it seems he got bumped up to straight white man lead by default,  Still even then he played a backseat to Blaine (while they were still at McKinley) and later Mercedes.

 

I would also say that even though RM and team seemed to have glommed onto DaLeaStreet last season and earlier this season from all of the spoilers it appears to me the only true leads are Blaine and Rachel with Kurt serving Blaine's story and Sam Rachel's.

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[jaytee1812]

For Lea i think it is simply that Rachel has always been the lead female and really since the show started the first among equals as far as the other lead characters (Will and Finn) so of course many of the other characters will be used to support Rachel's story.  It is how they have used them that is awful i.e. calling minority women lazy in comparison to Rachel to underscore that Rachel is the hardest working most talented.  There were ways to write Santana, Tina, and Mercedes supporting Rachel's story without using offensive stereotypes.

 

I think that's mostly true, but had she not been compliant behind the scenes you would've found Rachel suddenly get less and less screen time, then New York dropped altogether or she would've been written out after season 3.

 

I'd love to get a behind the scenes look to know if this group of writers really are a bunch racists, misogynist, homophobes, transphobes and biphobic, who worship at the ground of straight/straight acting white men. Or if they are such terrible writers it comes over that way.

[whyme]

This may sound stupid, but hasn't Darren done a lot of performances for events that Fox,Glee, the gay community or Ryan Murphy was involved in?  That can't have hurt his cause, to be sure.  I have always thought of Darren as more of a performer than an actor.  But I also think the people in charge really wanted to be represented in the gay community, but Chris who got a lot of notoriety for the bullying storyline that then led to the Golden Globe win did not seem to like to be carted out for things like that.  Now mind you, that had Jane and Dot and Ryan, and others I am sure, but Darren was the performer and he seemed to show up for every event out there.

[caracas1914]

For whatever reasons I would agree that Lea, Darren and Chord are the golden children as Glee winds down.

 

Doesn't bother me in the sense that as acting business politics,  it's smart to stay on show runners' good side.  So more power to them. (If  this has adversely affected Glee is another issue.) It's all water under the bridge at this point since Glee is done.

 

I don't think it's coincidental that  three of the most marginalized actors, Matt, Chris and Kevin have been working for a while  getting outside gigs lined up as soon as Glee wraps up. Obviously  Ryan and company were aware of this, especially with how apparently Chris  requested time off to film his movie in the fall when it still looked like Glee was getting  a full episode  order.  It's an open secret Matt had his bags packed before Cory's death.

 

With Daleastreet, I would not be at all shocked/surprised if they all already  have informal  commitments to work in any of the series projects that Ryan/Brad are now developing.

This may sound stupid, but hasn't Darren done a lot of performances for events that Fox,Glee, the gay community or Ryan Murphy was involved in?

 

 

Darren has certainly worked the straight ally angle  to the LGBTQ community with his "gay" connection.   It's certainly helped him get on every LGBTQ event known to man the last few years.   Just a note that it's a luxury most young gay actors probably don't have, simply because they're aren't all that many of them in that position and the cost to a straight actor isn't much, whereas the typecasting for a gay actor is still the perception and MO.

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[camussie]

I think that is probably true for Lea and Chord for sure.  Lea is obviously very close to Ryan and while I think it is good for her career that it seems she will always have an in with someone who has become quite a powerhouse in TV I also think she needs to diversify and work with other people.  As for Chord, given that he is good looking to many and a company guy (he seemed to have learned that after fox wouldn't play at the end of season 2) I think both Fox and RM will try and use him in the future.  Darren is more problematic because he isn't as easily castable given his height.  Still i think if RM can use him he will.

 

I'd love to get a behind the scenes look to know if this group of writers really are a bunch racists, misogynist, homophobes, transphobes and biphobic, who worship at the ground of straight/straight acting white men

 

.

I would say only certain straight white men.  To this day I don't feel like they piled on "loser" with any character as much as they did Finn's.  I mean shooting himself out of the army and it taking Marley to convince him to go to college.  Lord it was all too much at some point and this comes from someone who actually liked that Finn felt lost after high school.

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[whyme]

When is the last time that Ryan has actually praised Darren?  And I don't mean giving him more screentime on Glee.  Come on Glee or Fox or the people in charge have not include Darren for Emmy consideration the last 2 years.  There has to be something to that.  Ryan , at least lately, outside of Glee only talks about Lea. And when he received his award last summer he did not include any one from Glee in his speech. But then again Darren's girlfriend got a pretty nice job out of it.

[caracas1914]

Naya is the one I'm most curious about.

 

Because in Season 3, even more than Darren, I felt the showrunners/writers were setting her up to be a big LEAD character for Season 4. In Season 3 she got both alot of songs AND storylines (unlike Darren) and she was trotted for the upfronts in May. 

 

Wonder if there actually was fall out when she stopped  dating that writer on Glee, add  the fuckup with NY Glee where the screentime was drastically reduced and if that  created even more tension on set with her and the showrunners to the point they wrote her off the Season 5 finale.

 

I would love to read the kiss all memoirs!

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[shantown]

 

Darren is more problematic because he isn't as easily castable given his height.

What do you mean? In every scene from the show and all the promo photos Darren is taller than Chris Colfer! (rolling my eyes here)

[camussie]

A tell-all would be good but I still say it should open with that disastrous interview RM gave the summer between season 2 and 3 which lead to a solid month of media mishaps where he first threw Cory under the bus (I'm sure Cory knows) and then finally Chris (basically blaming Chris for the whole mess that RM started by blabbing his mouth).  I mean that was really 2 of his 3 leads at that point so I wonder if him being an ass to them via the media the rest of the cast to wonder was next especially after Chord's contract wasn't renewed (although my own feeling is most BTS knew that Chord overplayed his hand so most got why that happened).  

Edited January 2, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Add the rumors that Corey Monteith as the mouthpiece for the cast saying to Ryan/Brad , "Fuck NO, we are not working our summers touring again."

 

I remember that at the end of the second tour the Glee actors were dropping like flies with flus, sore throats, etc.

Edited January 2, 2015 by caracas1914

[camussie]

Yeah I sometimes wonder if that is true and that was behind RM being so dismissive regarding Cory in that interview that whipped up so much frenzy.  When I first read that interview I was like WTH Ryan?  Being so dismissive about one of your leads like that.  Then of course he managed to top it not a month later by blaming Chris for his media mishaps.

[whyme]

But isn't somewhat common knowledge that Cory was the one who represented the cast when there were issues with the higher ups?  Isn't he the one that asked for more time off and less hours for the 'kids'?  After he died, several people stated he was the leader, he was indeed the quarterback of the 'kids'.  My guess is that did not sit too well with Ryan. Since the original newbies seemed to be hired with a concert tour in mind, I wonder who of the original cast stated that they did not want to go on tour again? Just curious.

[camussie]

I would guess out of the regulars Lea, Cory, Chris, Amber, Harry, Mark, Naya and Heather all said no to a concert tour.  Dianna was a guest star so she would have said no too,  Not sure about Kevin and Jenna but I lean towards at least one of them saying no way.  I think Cord and Darren would have been down for another one.  

[tom87]

I remember a rumor Lea said no to tour and Ryan threaten to fire one of her friends if she didn't do the tour and that Lea was trying to get the whole cast to stand against it.

[fakeempress]

For whatever reasons I would agree that Lea, Darren and Chord are the golden children as Glee winds down.

 

Doesn't bother me in the sense that as acting business politics,  it's smart to stay on show runners' good side.  So more power to them. (If  this has adversely affected Glee is another issue.) It's all water under the bridge at this point since Glee is done.

 

I don't think it's coincidental that  three of the most marginalized actors, Matt, Chris and Kevin have been working for a while  getting outside gigs lined up as soon as Glee wraps up. Obviously  Ryan and company were aware of this, especially with how apparently Chris  requested time off to film his movie in the fall when it still looked like Glee was getting  a full episode  order.  It's an open secret Matt had his bags packed before Cory's death.

 

With Daleastreet, I would not be at all shocked/surprised if they all already  have informal  commitments to work in any of the series projects that Ryan/Brad are now developing.

 

Darren has certainly worked the straight ally angle  to the LGBTQ community with his "gay" connection.   It's certainly helped him get on every LGBTQ event known to man the last few years.   Just a note that it's a luxury most young gay actors probably don't have, simply because they're aren't all that many of them in that position and the cost to a straight actor isn't much, whereas the typecasting for a gay actor is still the perception and MO.

I think Chris always had the bucket list in his back pocket and was waiting for a chance to start chomping at it. This chance imo materialised after the 2011 GG win. 2011 was a banner year for him, with the GG and Time 100 happening by May, and soon after he had some TV deal at Disney to adapt a book (which didn't pan out), signed the first book deal, and right after the Glee tour he shot his movie. Incidentally, the same summer he got mixed up in the Ryan interview mess camussie mentioned and got blamed for the failure of the spinoff plans (with Lea and Cory). I'm not sure if there is a link between Chris's hectic side-projecting that year, the blaming, and how they wrote Kurt as pretty much failing at everything he attempted in Season 3, and then drastically reduced his time in Season 4, but I won't be surprised if there is. Ryan as much as said Chris (and maybe Cory) wouldn't be willing to move to presumably New York if they had to move the spinoff production outside Hollywood. Btw, it's still hilarious how Ryan said he scrapped the spinoff plans just because Lea, Cory and Chris talked about being "fired on twitter", at the same time admitting he didn't have a deal with the network. 

 

Regarding Darren's events, it seems a steady revenue stream for him from appearance and performance / hosting fees, and keeps his name in the media. He doesn't have another gig currently, so this works quite well for him. It's really unfortunate in case of the LGBT events that the organisers and sponsors don't see it as the perfect chance to showcase an LGBT performer in his place. Same with Out Magazine putting Darren on the cover, when Glee has an actual out gay actor playing a gay character in Chris.

Edited January 3, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

The stupid thing is Cory never said a word during that whole mess and Chris only said something when asked the day he got his Emmy nominations (which was the day after Ryan's disastrous interview).  My guess is Cory, Lea, and Chris were all approached about a spin off spring of 2011 (spring of season 2) but told to keep their mouths shut about it so in July when Chris was asked about being let go from glee he still kept his mouth shut per RM and Fox's request that spring.  The real issue is RM tried to create buzz about Glee by trying to be cagey in that interview but it backfired on him.  If he had simply answered we are working on season 3 right now and looking at what do going forward from there and left it at that none of that would have happened.

[fakeempress]

I still don't get why he specifically blamed them for the shelving of the spinoff and why mention the spinoff at all, unless the network wasn't playing ball and the sacked on twitter mess came in handy for him to use as pretext in his politicking with Fox or convenient excuse. But even with this in mind, that interview still sounded dumb in that a couple of cast complaining or being confused to the media can have the power to shelve a show. He also blamed the media, and the reporter took exception to that right away, I reread it and it's still one of RM's top 10 wtf interviews.

Edited January 3, 2015 by fakeempress

[camussie]

To be fair the Fox people mentioned the spin-off in their interview.  From all of the interviews that July this seems to be the sequence of events

• March 2011 - Lea, Chris, and Cory were approached about the plans for a spin-off but were asked to keep their mouths shut about it. No word about Naya but it seems at some point she was approached as well. 
• July 13, 2011- RM opened his big mouth to "The Hollywood Reporter" and said those Lea, Chris, and Cory would be graduating, which, most people understandably took to mean they would be gone completely since there was no mention of a spin-off.  In that same interview he flat out said he had talked to Lea & Chris and but not Cory but he was sure Cory knew Finn was graduating (my guess is Brad or Ian had talked to Cory still RM came across like a dismissive jackass with that comment)
• Next day - Chris was asked about "being off the show"  during his Emmy nomination interviews and said he knew nothing about it.  I think he did this because he was continuing to be a good company man and not spill the beans about the possible spin-off so it made it seem that, not only did RM not talk to Cory, but he was lying about talking to Chris
• Mid-July, Comicon - Brad Falchuk said "Just because they're graduating doesn't mean they're leaving the show" and then tried to blame THR reporter for the media storm caused by RM's comments by saying the reporter misunderstood what RM said.
• July 28, 2011 - "The Daily Beast" had some quotes from Dana Walden from Fox where she said no one was being fired.   She also made it clear that there had been talk of a spin-off but that was dead in the water due to the controversy RM created (although I think it was mostly because Fox realized that the Glee brand wouldn't have been able to sustain 2 shows).
• July 28, 2011  - RM did an interview with "Deadline" blaming the backlash on the cast implying they hadn't been kept in the loop (read Chris) when really it was his own stupid interview that set the whole mess in motion.  In that first interview he either should have mentioned they were discussing a spin-off or, since Fox wanted to keep that under wraps, he should have simply said they were still figuring season 3 and beyond out.  Instead he tried to stir up some buzz about the future of the show and backfired on him. Since there were fairly well sourced rumors that RM tried to kill "The Daily Beast" interview it seems this was him getting his version out there.

Edited January 3, 2015 by camussie

[Myrna123]

[*]Next day - Chris was asked about "being off the show" during is Emmy nomination interviews and said he knew nothing about it. I think he did this because he was continuing to be a good company man and not spill the beans about the possible spin-off so it made it seem that, not only did RM not talk to Cory, but he was lying about talking to Chris

I'm pretty sure what Chris said was that he hadn't known they were going to announce anything--I don't believe he ever implied that he didn't know about leaving Glee for a spinoff--one of the entertainment outlets sensationalized their headline.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Myrna123

[jaytee1812]

Given the discussions on other thread about how racially insensitive and misogynist Glee can be at times does anyone else find it concerning that Ryan Murphy's next project is the dramatisation of the real life murder of a white woman allegedly by her black husband?!

[camussie]

Either way  he simply was doing what Fox asked him to do - keeping the discussions about Glee's future under wraps  Also to be clear he wasn't asked about a spin-off because at that time that wasn't in the press.  The only thing in the press at the time of Chris' interviews was that Rachel, Finn, and Kurt were going to graduate which most people took to mean that they would be gone from the show come season 4.  Chris was asked what that meant for his future and he tried to talk around it in order to not discuss Glee's future per Fox' request.

 

We only learned of the possible spin-off a couple of weeks later after it had been killed by Fox.

Edited January 3, 2015 by camussie

[ComfySweater]

Yes, I'm just not sure my horror at that is on topic for this forum.

 

ETA: The new show, not the spinoff. I have no opinion about the spinoff that never happened.

Edited January 3, 2015 by ComfySweater

[Glorfindel]

I'm pretty sure what Chris said was that he hadn't known they were going to announce anything--I don't believe he ever implied that he didn't know about leaving Glee for a spinoff--one of the entertainment outlets sensationalized their headline.

I was just writing a similar post about that when I saw your reply.

 

What Chris said was that he hadn't heard there had been announcement, and that he found out over twitter (I think his twitter feed must have blown up with all kinds of tweets sent his way reacting to the news that RM had said his character would graduate and be off the show after season 3).

After being asked to say more he also tried to justify RM's announcement by saying that it was only logical and realistic that at some point the kid characters would graduate from high school, although it made him sad to leave the show, well aware that he wasn't given permission to talk about the spin-off.

RM basically threw Chris in front of the media after his Emmy-nomination unprepared and Chris simply tried to make the best of it, being as honest as well as evasive as he could. I think he handled that mess admirably and professionally.

 

It was the reporter that interviewed Chris and the rest of the media that then turned what Chris said about finding out over twitter that an announcement had been made into "Chris Colfer found out he got fired on twitter", and both RM and Brad Falchuk took that as being the truth (without checking with Chris or actually watching the interview, which was filmed) and kept blaming Chris for saying he got fired weeks later. And apparently noone at Fox bothered to correct them.

Which is the most baffling of all of this to me. Especially since Dante di Lorento and Ian Brennan were standing right beside Chris when he was interviewed and you could even see them talking to Chris in another video. And yet RM insisted a few weeks later he got mad and nixed the spin-off because Chris said he'd been fired and was 'ungrateful', blaming him for the PR mess, and Brad Falchuk also threw Chris under the bus at Comic-Con, saying he couldn't understand why Chris had said that. When Chris NEVER said he got fired.

 

Really, that whole Graduationsgate was a mess, and definitely caused by RM, but I really don't understand why certain basic things weren't checked first before being talked about, and why Fox and e.g. Dante di Lorento didn't do more damage control.

Dana Walden basically told RM to shut up, but then RM still gave an interview that made everyone but himself look bad. How does that man still have a job at Fox?

O, to have been a fly on the wall at the Fox offices at that time.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Glorfindel

[camussie]

I think he handled that mess admirably and professionally.

 

 

I don't see anybody disagreeing with that.  I specifically said that Chris was being a good company man and that the whole mess was caused by RM opening his big mouth in that first interview.  Whatever Chris said or was reported about what Chris said that point is that this mess wasn't on Chris even though RM tried to scapegoat him in the deadline interview on July 28 much like he came off as a dismissive jackass regarding Cory in the first interview.

 

As for why RM still has a job?  Because AHS is one of the highest rated cable series and makes Fox a lot of money,

Edited January 3, 2015 by camussie

[Glorfindel]

I don't see anybody disagreeing with that.

Neither did I? Nor did I imply anyone did.

I was just giving a more elaborate account on what Chris said that day vs what it was turned into by the media, and added my own opinion on how I thought Chris handled that interview.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Glorfindel

[camussie]

Isn't it bad enough they threw Rachel's arc under the bus to be force her into Finn's story line?...

 

 

I really take issue with characterizing Rachel going back to Lima as being forced into Finn's story.  No.  First Finn's original story was blown up to force him into the "choir room is the heart of the show (because we have dreams of franchising Glee)" narrative and now that he passed Rachel/Kurt/Blaine are being forced into it.  Still make no mistake Finn being stuck in Lima was no more his original story than Rachel blowing up her career and ending back in Lima was her original story.  Believe me I get it sucks for her character because as a Finn fan I know how much it sucked for his character but to say she is being forced into his story ignores that his story was the first story that got hosed when RM decided McKinley had to remain the central narrative, come hell or high water or what they had written before season 4.  

 

Sure the only reason she is back in Lima is because Cory passed so RM could no longer trap Finn under the dome but that ignores that the real reason they had to first trap him and now Rachel/Blaine/Kurt - because RM is so attached to that damn choir room he is willing to basically blow up the stories for all of his leads.  Many didn't mind when he was only doing it to Finn but hate it now.  I can say i hated it for him and I hate it for Rachel/Blaine/Kurt.  

Edited January 6, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

I really take issue with characterizing Rachel going back to Lima as being forced into Finn's story.  No.  First Finn's original story was blown up to force him into the "choir room is the heart of the show (because we have dreams of franchising Glee)" narrative and now that he passed Rachel/Kurt/Blaine are being forced into it.  Still make no mistake Finn being stuck in Lima was no more his original story than Rachel blowing up her career and ending back in Lima was her original story.  Believe me I get it sucks for her character because as a Finn fan I know how much it sucked for his character but to say she is being forced into his story ignores that his story was the first story that got hosed when RM decided McKinley had to remain the central narrative, come hell or high water or what they had written before season 4.  

 

Sure the only reason she is back in Lima is because Cory passed so RM could no longer trap Finn under the dome but that ignores that the real reason they had to first trap him and now Rachel/Blaine/Kurt - because RM is so attached to that damn choir room he is willing to basically blow up the stories for all of his leads.  Many didn't mind when he was only doing it to Finn but hate it now.  I can say i hated it for him and I hate it for Rachel/Blaine/Kurt.  

 

No one said it was good story for him.   Not sure where I even implied his story was good either. But like it or not the last time we saw him it was his story to be the club director. 

 

So she is forced into the "choir room story" if that makes you better. 

 

I think my point was pretty clear though in that she is not being allow (either) to follow what I am sure was her different path now to fulfill another storyline.

[camussie]

It does make it better to me because I never saw him being stuck under the Lima dome as his story.  That was the "choir room must stay the central narrative (because RM and Fox had dreams of franchising Glee)" story.  Sure now RM likes to claim Fox's gave 5 newbies contracts and kept an entire second narrative because they were building all of that around Finn's story, so when he died they had no choice but to end it, but that is a lie so he can scapegoat his bad decisions on Cory's passing.  

 

It isn't even the point that it wasn't a good story for him because none of the stories on this show are good stories.  The point is, no matter what RM claims now, that was not the original story they set up for Finn in the pilot.  For three seasons those in charge were setting up Finn to leave Lima at some point to prove to himself he could make it away from there.  Then they needed an anchor for their newbies who they were hoping would be the next glee franchise so they trapped him there. 

 

I think my point was pretty clear though in that she is not being allow (either) to follow what I am sure was her different path now to fulfill another storyline.

 

 

I actually don't think her path is all that different, at least when it comes to Broadway.  Her getting Funny Girl was set up before Finn died so it is obvious to me they always planned on pulling that trigger by the end of season 5.  What is different is that she isn't spending season 6 racking up success after success in other venues so she could return "home" in the last 5 minutes of the show.  

 

While that would have been slightly better than her blowing her own career up so she returns to Lima a failure it still would have been a crap story and that is all on those in charge - because they pulled the trigger on Rachel's NY success way too soon - again a decision they made before Cory ever passed.  Instead of giving Rachel BW success by the end of season 5 (which seems to have been the plan as of the second half of season 4) they should have reassessed RM's crap choir room ending which seems to be the reason they jumped the gun on the Broadway story.  

Edited January 6, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

The one thing we will probably never know is exactly how much of a "break" the original Glee cast expected and received in Season 4:

 

I speculate  that Ryan Murphy and company either recognized or were forced to accept that the Glee was was overworked and burned out by the end of Season 3;  Some of them from the pilot onward had been working nonstop since late 2008.  I understand after the pilot they did rehearsals and even a quick tour of Australia among other things in 2009 so it was go, go, go for several years.

 

We do know that the Original Cast after a very successful 2011 tour refused to tour after Season 3, and that even in HW Glee had an infamous rep for insane hours... With the Choir club scenes the most tedious and time consuming as it required getting reactions shots even from non performing cast...

 

What we will never know is of the Regulars "retained",  throughout the whole season 4....and those I would say  were  Lea, Cory, Chris and Naya as far as graduated Seniors, did they expect and know they were going to be sidelined as much as they eventually were?  

The show almost literally replaced all the leading characters, and while some of that wasn't planned (the first 4 episode were fairly evenly split between McKinley and NY)  it had be clear after awhile to them what the show was deliberately doing.

 

Before Season 4 started , they announced Lea would appear in all episodes, in the end she was MIA from 3 episode for the first time ever in a season (as did Chris) and Lea even said she started her album because she had more time on her hands than she expected.

 

] 

Edited January 6, 2015 by caracas1914

[tom87]

The one thing we will probably never know is exactly how much of a "break" the original Glee cast expected and received in Season 4:

 

I speculate  that Ryan Murphy and company either recognized or were forced to accept that the Glee was was overworked and burned out by the end of Season 3;  Some of them from the pilot onward had been working nonstop since late 2008.  I understand after the pilot they did rehearsals and even a quick tour of Australia among other things in 2009 so it was go, go, go for several years.

 

We do know that the Original Cast after a very successful 2011 tour refused to tour after Season 3, and that even in HW Glee had an infamous rep for insane hours... With the Choir club scenes the most tedious and time consuming as it required getting reactions shots even from non performing cast...

 

What we will never know is of the Regulars "retained",  throughout the whole season 4....and those I would say  were  Lea, Cory, Chris and Naya as far as graduated Seniors, did they expect and know they were going to be sidelined as much as they eventually were?  

The show almost literally replaced all the leading characters, and while some of that wasn't planned (the first 4 episode were fairly evenly split between McKinley and NY)  it had be clear after awhile to them what the show was deliberately doing.

 

Before Season 4 started , they announced Lea would appear in all episodes, in the end she was MIA from 3 episode for the first time ever in a season (as did Chris) and Lea even said she started her album because she had more time on her hands than she expected.

 

] 

I think after season 2 they started  lightening their load a bit.  Less choir room scene less all group numbers.

 

Lea seemed relieved not to have to do choir room scenes  anymore and her she is back at um.

 

Some of them from the pilot onward had been working nonstop since late 2008.  I understand after the pilot they did rehearsals and even a quick tour of Australia among other things in 2009 so it was go, go, go for several years.

 

Oct 2008 - pilot

Jan 2009 -  started filming the rest of the first 13.

May 2009 - pilot aired

July 2009  - finish first 13

August 2009 - Hot Topics tour

Sept 2009 - Australian visit.

Oct 2009 - PR in NY

Nov 2009 - Short signing tour for first CD.

Dec 2009 - started back 9

May - 2010  finished back 9

May 2010 - Tour  (had most of June and half of July off)

July 2010- started 2nd season of glee

May 2011- finished  2nd season

May July 2nd - 2011 - Tour

August 2011 - early Aug 3D movie Press and start filming.

May - 2012 - finish season 3

 

etc..

.

[camussie]

• They filmed the pilot in October of 2008.  
• Came back in in winter 2009 to finish the rest of the 13.  
• Finished that around July/August.  
• Did a mall tour and a tour Australia in August/September.  
• Got a little time off before they started the back 9 in December 2009.  
• Finished those in late April and from there they did a 10 city tour that finished late May 2010.  From there they had about 5-6 weeks off before they started season 2.  Not sure about anybody else but Cory filmed a movie in that time (Monte Carlo) and Lea/Matt performed at the Tony's. 
• From July 2010 (when they started filming season 2) through May 2012 (when they finished filming season 3) they basically had no time off given that their hiatus between season 2 and 3 was European and Americas Glee Live tour.  I think they had 2-3 weeks offf at the most off between those concert dates and the start of season 3 filming.  

 

So heck yes they were all in need of a break especially since it seems they were not really compensated fairly for their concert tour.  

 

Glee was always going to be a challenging show to tape but I think RM's lack of planning and going with whatever wild hair he had that week made it all the worse.  

 

I also understand why they cut down on the group numbers because that had to extend filming.  The problem is that they simply didn't write the smaller scenes well.

Edited January 6, 2015 by camussie

[caracas1914]

Lea seemed relieved not to have to do choir room scenes  anymore and here she is back at um.

 

 

I think that was the one thing the older Regulars didn't miss at all.

 

Part of Ryan's master plan I suspect was work a new group of actors to death in Season 4 and then have them tour, just like the older group.  Unfortunately for him the Noobs didn't take and the planned tour was DOA....

Oct 2008 - pilot

Jan 2009 -  started filming the rest of the first 13.

 

Was there some sort of rehearsal period between those dates , I can't remember...

[camussie]

Since he and Kevin Reilly outright said something about a tour I am sure that was the plan but like you said they didn't take.  I also will always wonder how much of a factor making sure there was a place for Sue was in these decisions.  I suspect for Fox that was one of the main factors since they have always seemed to consider Jane the face of Glee.  Still that was dumb because Sue was a fairly portable character.  Simply have her move to NY because there is a school there that caters to her special needs child and she ends of coaching at the same school where Finn is volunteering as a Glee club coach.  

 

That was the other dumb part if they really wanted to keep a Glee club the heart of the show that would have been easily done as well.  Finn moves to NY to get a teaching degree and gets hooked up with a Glee club.  Voila a glee club is the heart of the show with some of the originals coming in and out and helping in between their classes/endeavors in NY (versus travelling across country).  Santana with dancing.  Kurt with costumes.  Rachel and Mercedes with vocals.  If they really wanted to show they were a show about diversity have it be located in Harlem so most of the members are minorities.  Artie with helping Finn direct a musical and Rachel/Kurt getting extra credit for helping out with that would have made sense as they would be promoting the arts in their own community.

 

That would have also had the added bonus of lightening the workload on most of the originals while still keeping them all in one location.  RM and team simply lacked imagination for something like that though.  

Edited January 6, 2015 by camussie

[tom87]

Was there some sort of rehearsal period between those dates , I can't remember...

If there was rehearsal before filming it still was in Jan  2009.

 

The did not learn they were even getting a full13 episodes until mid December.   Lea and Jenna found out the day they were to perform for a SA Christmas Concert.