Small Talk: The Polygamous Cul-de-Sac

[Jeanne222]

17 hours ago, Yeah No said:

We priced it as a fixer-upper and people will know that when they see how much more comparable apartments are going for that don't need as much or any renovation.  I'm told some buyers are OK with fixing the place up themselves because that way they get exactly what they want.

I'm trying to go with my gut, but this is a complicated situation so I'm going to wait until my gut feels more confident about which direction to pursue.  Should I leave it as-is and hope to attract someone that is OK with doing the renovations or do what I can afford to make it look better and more attractive to buyers?  I guess my gut doesn't know yet, LOL.  Usually it's easier to sell something the less renovation it needs.  But I'm realistic - I can't afford the renovations this place would need to make it "move-in ready".  It needs everything.  The kitchen is unusable plus I had the appliances removed since they were no good anyway.  I didn't have much choice.  The cabinets are 46 years old and were made of poor quality materials so they are not savable.  In some places they're basically falling apart.  The bathrooms are usable but look pretty awful and deep cleaning would probably not help much.  They need complete renovation as well.  Even though this building was built in 1974 it didn't have the best quality kitchens and baths. Most buildings that were built in earlier decades were built to last.  This one wasn't and then of course my parents didn't do one ounce of renovation in 46 years.

I'm told the market has been brisk in NY both buying and selling, but that right now because of the holiday season and possible increasing Covid concerns there seems to be a little bit of a lull.  Last week the apartment didn't have any showings.  Given that this year has been unpredictable they don't know when it will end.  I left it to my realtor and his experts to give me advice on whether to do the painting now or hold off for a while.  It's just that the first few people who looked at the place all had concerns about having to do so much renovation.  I can't afford to do a complete renovation and I might not even get what I put into it if I did, so I have to do what I can.  It's always easier to sell something that's completely renovated but that might not be the best from a cost POV even factoring in the extra time it might take to sell in an unrenovated state.  So I am going to wait until my realtor gets a consensus from his team.  He works with a team of realtors that is very highly respected among people in the know.  I'm not so sure he is an authority on his own, though, but that's OK if he has access to the wisdom of those that are.

 

Sorry if I ever sounded bossy.  I tend to jump right in!  It sounds like you have a good handle on everything!  

You're buyer will come along.  They always do.   Can 't wait for you to tell us SOLD!

Btw I'm New here in this topic discussion.  Is this Sister Wife topic the area we chit chat?

[suomi]

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

Btw I'm New here in this topic discussion.  Is this Sister Wife topic the area we chit chat?

Yes'm, it is. It's a nice place to relax. 

 

[suomi]

From this week's Metropolitan Diary. I included one comment at the end because it was a good one.

Dear Diary:

It was my first day going to work after moving into a house in Midwood.

As I walked toward the bus stop, there was only one other person on the street: an older woman who was bent over slightly and walking gingerly in my direction.

As we passed, she addressed me in a raspy voice.

“Careful, young man,” she said. “The leaves are falling out of the trees.”

“Thank you,” I said somewhat patronizingly, thinking to myself, “That is what leaves do, isn’t it?”

A few steps later, my feet went out from under me and I was flat on my back on a thin layer of innocent-looking, but moist, leaves.

~ Ernest Brod

Dear Diary:

From 1951 to 1954, from the time I was 14 until I was 17, I lived in a large yellow house on Governors Island in what is now called Nolan Park.

I returned for a visit during a recent summer and found that my former home was being used by artists. The paint was peeling and everything about the place that had once seemed so elegant now looked shabby.

But the people who were working inside welcomed me. When I explained my history with the house, they allowed me to go up to the third floor. Now roped off, it had once been my teenage domain.

One section of the house had just two stories, and from my bedroom window I used to climb, wearing a bathing suit, onto the flat roof of the adjoining wing, where I would spread out a towel and sunbathe.

I actually only did it until my father found out and issued the kind of order that a military man is accustomed to issuing.

Now over 80, I stood at that window and remembered the feel of the hot metal roof on my bare feet as I carefully arranged my beach towel and my tanning lotion.

Then, as if from out of the past, I heard the voice of the Colonel: “Do not even think about climbing out on that roof ever again.”

I chuckled and murmured, “Yes, sir.” I backed away from the window, descended the stairs and said goodbye to my adolescence.

— Lois Lowry

Dear Diary:

When I moved out of my parents’ house in Queens and into my own apartment in Manhattan, I was living my dream.

One day about a month after I made the move, my boyfriend handed me a helmet and asked me to join him for a ride on his new motorcycle. This was a new kind of freedom, and I was an eager passenger.

We went east on 16th Street before turning and heading north on Third Avenue. As we sped up uptown, we stopped at lights in Gramercy Park, Kips Bay and Murray Hill. At each stop, I would sit up very straight and scan the sidewalks. I was hoping a friend would see me.

When we stopped at a light at 59th Street, I looked to my right and noticed a familiar car idling next to us.

Suddenly I was gazing into the eyes of my father, and I wished I could disappear.

— Susan Schatz

(comment)

How do parents instinctively show up when least expected? Or if not parents, then parents’ friends? Skipping school with friends one day, HS, and was spotted by parent’s friend. She pulled her car over, didn’t say a word, we got in, and were driven back to school. Many stories like this. :):):)

~ Amy Shilo

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/13/nyregion/metropolitan-diary.html?action=click&module=Editors Picks&pgtype=Homepage

Edited December 15, 2020 by suomi

[Teafortwo]

@suomi Thank you for sharing the above. This reminds me of a time in college. Larry King was on all night radio back then and he made an appearance broadcasting the radio show with a live audience from a hotel lobby in Philadelphia.  A friend and fellow "Open Phone America" addict, and I went to see him in person. We figured we'd skip class the next day and sleep in after our all-night adventure.

We slept in...and woke up to find that a picture of the two of us sleeping with our heads on each other's shoulders at the event appeared on the front page of that day's Inquirer.

Several years later I was astonished that King got a TV show because I found him so physically unattractive. Loved his voice but not his face.

Haven't thought about that in years! 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Teafortwo

[laurakaye]

14 hours ago, suomi said:

A chain of 900 strangers paid for one another's meals over several days at a Dairy Queen drive-through.

I saw that, how wonderful.  That happened to me once at a Panera drive-through - I think I was like person #50 or so and of course, I didn't want to break the chain and the person in front of me had already paid for mine.  There is goodness in this world!

[Yeah No]

On 12/14/2020 at 8:11 PM, Jeanne222 said:

Sorry if I ever sounded bossy.  I tend to jump right in!  It sounds like you have a good handle on everything!  

You're buyer will come along.  They always do.   Can 't wait for you to tell us SOLD!

Btw I'm New here in this topic discussion.  Is this Sister Wife topic the area we chit chat?

Oh no, I didn't think you sounded bossy at all - in fact I really appreciate your advice and encouragement.  I sent out the deposit for the painting today.  I think it's going to make a big difference.  I will of course keep this board updated.  Of all the chit chat boards on this forum I think this one is the best.  Everyone here is very nice and supportive of each another. 

[Yeah No]

23 hours ago, suomi said:

From this week's Metropolitan Diary. I included one comment at the end because it was a good one.

Dear Diary:

It was my first day going to work after moving into a house in Midwood.

As I walked toward the bus stop, there was only one other person on the street: an older woman who was bent over slightly and walking gingerly in my direction.

As we passed, she addressed me in a raspy voice.

“Careful, young man,” she said. “The leaves are falling out of the trees.”

“Thank you,” I said somewhat patronizingly, thinking to myself, “That is what leaves do, isn’t it?”

A few steps later, my feet went out from under me and I was flat on my back on a thin layer of innocent-looking, but moist, leaves.

~ Ernest Brod

Dear Diary:

From 1951 to 1954, from the time I was 14 until I was 17, I lived in a large yellow house on Governors Island in what is now called Nolan Park.

I returned for a visit during a recent summer and found that my former home was being used by artists. The paint was peeling and everything about the place that had once seemed so elegant now looked shabby.

But the people who were working inside welcomed me. When I explained my history with the house, they allowed me to go up to the third floor. Now roped off, it had once been my teenage domain.

One section of the house had just two stories, and from my bedroom window I used to climb, wearing a bathing suit, onto the flat roof of the adjoining wing, where I would spread out a towel and sunbathe.

I actually only did it until my father found out and issued the kind of order that a military man is accustomed to issuing.

Now over 80, I stood at that window and remembered the feel of the hot metal roof on my bare feet as I carefully arranged my beach towel and my tanning lotion.

Then, as if from out of the past, I heard the voice of the Colonel: “Do not even think about climbing out on that roof ever again.”

I chuckled and murmured, “Yes, sir.” I backed away from the window, descended the stairs and said goodbye to my adolescence.

This one brought a tear to my eye.  As a teenager I used to sneak up to the roof of my parents' building right above the apartment I'm selling right now to sunbathe.  It was an old New York tradition we used to call "tar beach".  Everyone in NY called it that because of the tar that they used to use to hold down the roof shingles.  If it was a hot day and you got your foot stuck in it, forget about it.  I tried to be really quiet but my mother knew someone was walking around up there.  She just didn't know it was me, LOL. 

When I started dating my first boyfriend we would go up there to make out.  We felt like we were sneaking around.  It was all very innocent but we felt scandalous.  He used to come over to the house to show me how to develop photographs.  He was into photography and I wanted to learn from him.  We would spend hours in the little lavatory that I had converted into a darkroom.  Of course the rules were that he only come over when my parents were around, but both of them worked so that was hard to do.  One day he was in the house and my father came home early unexpectedly.  I stuffed my boyfriend in the closet in my bedroom and told him not to breathe.  My Dad was completely unaware of what was going on.  As soon as he went into the bathroom and shut the door I pulled my boyfriend out of the closet and he ran out of the apartment. 

He became a Daily News photographer for most of his career.  He was on his way to teach a class in photography at NYU on September 11 when he got the call over his scanner that a plane had hit the WTC.  He of course went down there and was on the ground outside taking photos when the South Tower started to fall.  He was thrown and carried by the wind almost a block and in the process broke both of his legs, which needed titanium rods.  He walks normally now - he's a very lucky guy.  He was featured on a lot of the documentaries on September 11.  I thought of him that day - I knew he would be down there and was worried about him.  Only after calling his Mom we found out what happened.  My best friend and I called him in the hospital the next day to wish him a speedy recovery.

Years later I confessed to my parents about tar beach and stuffing my boyfriend in the closet.  We all had a good laugh and I felt like I got something off my chest.  When I went up there with one of my friends to show her what it was like on the roof about 10 years ago, the door was locked.  I doubt that today anyone can do "tar beach" anywhere anymore.  New regulations, the doors are locked.  It was a pass time from a bygone era.  

When I sell that apartment I will have to say goodbye to my adolescence too.

 

P.S. The other story involved turning East on 16th Street.  My father worked on 16th Street between 5th and 6th for many years.

[Jeanne222]

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

 

 

He became a Daily News photographer for most of his career.  He was on his way to teach a class in photography at NYU on September 11 when he got the call over his scanner that a plane had hit the WTC.  He of course went down there and was on the ground outside taking photos when the South Tower started to fall.  He was thrown and carried by the wind almost a block and in the process broke both of his legs, which needed titanium rods.  He walks normally now - he's a very lucky guy.  He was featured on a lot of the documentaries on September 11.  I thought of him that day - I knew he would be down there and was worried about him.  Only after calling his Mom we found out what happened.  My best friend and I called him in the hospital the next day to wish him a speedy recovery.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

 

 

9-11 affected so many of us in so many different ways!  My story is that we had bought another home and I so wanted Crystal doorknobs. 

I found them on Ebay.  Crystal not glass and was so excited.

I purchased them and was waiting for them to arrive.  One then two weeks went by but no delivery.  Into the third week I contacted the seller.

She apologized profusely.  Told me that many in her neighborhood worked in New York.  Many didn't make it home.

The neighbors organized a group to rescue pets that were left in the homes alone.  Waiting for owners that never arrived.

I always remember thinking how real that made the catastrophe to me sitting far away in the Midwest.

[Yeah No]

40 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

9-11 affected so many of us in so many different ways!  My story is that we had bought another home and I so wanted Crystal doorknobs. 

I found them on Ebay.  Crystal not glass and was so excited.

I purchased them and was waiting for them to arrive.  One then two weeks went by but no delivery.  Into the third week I contacted the seller.

She apologized profusely.  Told me that many in her neighborhood worked in New York.  Many didn't make it home.

The neighbors organized a group to rescue pets that were left in the homes alone.  Waiting for owners that never arrived.

I always remember thinking how real that made the catastrophe to me sitting far away in the Midwest.

Oh man, I remember hearing about the pets left alone.......

Even though I was living in CT by then the brother of a woman I worked with at the time was high up in the WTC above the escape zone.  I remember her coming to me on that day to tell me about it.  I didn't know her that well yet as I'd only been in the job for a few months by that time.  When I learned that the tower fell I found out that she went home and we didn't see her for at least a week after that.  She grew up near me in the Bronx and went to my high school (so did her brother), but because they were about 10 years younger than me I never knew them in school.  Months later, the city renamed the street in the Bronx where they grew up after him, which was right next to the Jr. High School where we all went.  There was a ceremony for the dedication and she invited me.  I attended with my husband, my father and my best friend.  I just found the invitation to the event with his name and photo on it in my personal files.

He was only 30 when he died, but he packed a lot of life into that short time.  He was already a Senior VP of a financial company, and his wife was pregnant with their first child, a daughter, born on September 22nd.  They had just had a home built from the ground up.  He had come from humble beginnings so he was thrilled to be living in the suburbs and have land around him for the first time in his life.

I lost touch with his sister when I was laid off from that job in a massive recession-related workforce reduction in 2009.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Yeah No

[ginger90]

This is an article about a cousin of mine, regarding 9/11:

https://northernvirginiamag.com/culture/culture-features/2011/09/27/survivor-with-a-story/
 

My former brother-in-law was a sergeant with NYPD Emergency Services at the time. He responded to the site on his day off. He has since passed away, from cancer related to being there.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/staten-island-ny/patrick-murphy-6093497

 

There are many more family members who were in the midst of this. Thankfully another cousin of mine wasn’t. It was her son’s first day of kindergarten, and she requested the morning off. She works  for the Port Authority.

Edited December 16, 2020 by ginger90

[Yeah No]

14 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

This is an article about a cousin of mine, regarding 9/11:

https://northernvirginiamag.com/culture/culture-features/2011/09/27/survivor-with-a-story/
 

My former brother-in-law was a sergeant with NYPD Emergency Services at the time. He responded to the site on his day off. He has since passed away, from cancer related to being there.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dignitymemorial.com/obituaries/staten-island-ny/patrick-murphy-6093497

 

There are many more family members who were in the midst of this. Thankfully another cousin of mine wasn’t. It was her son’s first day of kindergarten, and she requested the morning off. She works  for the Port Authority.

Thanks for posting that.  I knew several people with stories to tell from that day, including my best friend who actually saw the first plane hit the building just as she was getting out of the subway at W. 4th Street near that part of Washington Square Park where you could see the towers.  At first she couldn't process what she had seen, but when she got to her office at NYU everyone was talking about it, then leaving.  She spent the rest of the day walking almost the entire length of Manhattan Island (she lived on Broadway in Washington Hts. at the time) because transit was shut down and everything was in chaos.  Also the good friend of a friend who called in sick that day - she was one of those workers that watered plants at big companies.  She was scheduled to be at a company high in the South tower that morning.

I think I've already told the story about how in 1999 friends from the West Coast came to visit me and wanted a tour of Manhattan.  One of the places they wanted to see was the World Trade Center.  I told them I didn't love that idea because I was afraid of another terrorist attack.  I was convinced that they would come back to finish the job they failed at in 1993.  Of course most people thought I was being ridiculous, so I went, but I was nervous the entire time, especially when we had to put our belongings through the metal detectors.  When we sat on a bench on the outdoor concourse outside afterward, I started to cry for no reason.  The wife asked me what was wrong and I said I didn't know, but I felt like I was going to lose everyone and everything that ever meant anything to me.  I was never prone to such things so this was very unusual for me.  On Sept. 12, 2001, the couple called me and said, "You were right!".  They couldn't get over it.  I remember when I told my parents how I felt before going to the WTC, my father told me my mother had the same fear about the place.  My mother died on June 6, 2001 so I never got to talk with her about it.  That was a rough time for me, but looking back on it not even as rough as this time is right now.

[Teafortwo]

Thank you, @ginger90 for posting the *wonderful* article about your cousin. I am sorry to hear about your former brother-in-law. God bless them both.

[suomi]

Does anyone make Russian salad (Olivier salad) via the Hermitage Restaurant in Moscow? I came across it tonight and looked at a few recipes. Thinking I might try it without meat, I see ham, chicken or tuna used most often. Any tips or tricks? 

I just finished my third batch of pasta fazool and I'm in the mood to finely dice potatoes and carrots for a change of pace. Omitting meat would leave me with potatoes, carrots, onions, peas, eggs and pickles. It looks prettier than it sounds, and I'm big on things I can make in batches and eat all week.

Edited December 18, 2020 by suomi
forgot onions

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, CocoPuffs said:

You ever thought of writing a book? You write very well, and I can almost picture in my mind the scenes you describe.

Thank you, you flatter me!  I've always wanted to do that but can never commit myself to a subject.  I think I'm going to have to change that.  It's funny, just because you said that I realized that I should write a book of short stories based on my youth in New York. 

[suomi]

An angry customer threw his drink at a fast-food worker. The next customer responded in the most amazing way.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/18/us/customers-help-fast-food-worker-after-attack-trnd/index.html

PS: I made that Russian potato salad, it is So Good.

 

[Pickleinthemiddle]

On 12/18/2020 at 4:26 AM, suomi said:

Does anyone make Russian salad (Olivier salad) via the Hermitage Restaurant in Moscow? I came across it tonight and looked at a few recipes. Thinking I might try it without meat, I see ham, chicken or tuna used most often. Any tips or tricks? 

I just finished my third batch of pasta fazool and I'm in the mood to finely dice potatoes and carrots for a change of pace. Omitting meat would leave me with potatoes, carrots, onions, peas, eggs and pickles. It looks prettier than it sounds, and I'm big on things I can make in batches and eat all week.

It looks good.  I might have to try it.  I think I would probably enjoy eating it.  I love pea salad.  Which is also an odd combination of ingredients.

[deirdra]

The ingredients in Russian salad make sense as it uses things that would be in peoples' root cellars at Christmastime.  I wonder if the peas would have traditionally been dried peas that were cooked with the vegetables to plump them back up. The variety of ingredients and colours would make it a bounteous holiday treat.

Edited December 20, 2020 by deirdra

[Rabbit Hutch]

Well, dearies, I've decided to put my lockdown time from being OTR to good use, and I'm teaching myself how to can!  This will serve several purposes:

1.  It keeps me from frequently driving to the nearest rest area facility to gaze longingly at the truck parking area. 😔

2. I'm learning a new skill that will carry me well into retirement, that is if I don't blow up the house first from some newbie mistake. 

3. Maybe we can get away from eating take out all the time when we are home from the road!

So wish me luck on my new adventure while I call my insurance agent to review my coverage.  😉😎

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Rabbit Hutch

[suomi]

Mick and Keith met when they were first-graders.

The Stones headlined one of their earliest shows 56 years ago! Mick was taking a gap year from the London School of Economics, Bill gave up his job as a carpenter and Charlie resigned from the ad agency where he worked. 

They knew two guys who also were knocking around at that time, a guitar player named Eric Clapton who was so lacking in confidence that he had to play sitting down. And a singer with a raspy voice who was a trainee grave digger during the day named Rod Stewart. Ah well, and George Harrison was an apprentice electrician when he chucked it all to throw in with John and Paul.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by suomi

[laurakaye]

I received my Covid vax part 1 yesterday morning.  My arm was a little sore, but I'd say the flu shot was worse.  I did feel some fatigue/sleepiness a couple of hours post-vax that lasted most of the day, but nothing a cup of coffee and some chocolate couldn't handle, LOL.  My hospital did a great job of streamlining the process considering we just started the vax process a few days ago.  There is definitely a light at the end of this long, dark tunnel.  

[suomi]

Today is December 23. Happy Festivus to all!

Festivus is a secular holiday, normally celebrated on December 23rd. It is mainly meant as an alternative to the pressures and commercialization of the Christmas season. However, it has also become a day to celebrate the ever-lasting comedy of the 1990s television show Seinfeld.

Festivus was a holiday featured in the Season 9 Seinfeld episode "The Strike", which first aired on December 18, 1997. Since then, many people have been inspired by this zany, offbeat Seinfeld holiday and now celebrate Festivus as any other holiday.

According to the Seinfeld model, Festivus is celebrated on December 23rd. However many people celebrate it other times in December and even at other times throughout the year.

The usual holiday tradition of a tree is manifested in an unadorned aluminum pole, which is in direct contrast to normal holiday materialism. Those attending Festivus may also participate in the "Airing of Grievances" which is an opportunity to tell others how they have disappointed you in the past year, followed by a Festivus dinner, and then completed by the "Feats of Strength" where the head of the household must be pinned. All of these traditions are based upon the events in the Seinfeld episode, Strangely enough, our Festivus traditions also have roots that pre-date Seinfeld, as it began in the household of Dan O'Keefe, a television writer who is credited for writing the Seinfeld episode.

The traditional greeting of Festivus is "Happy Festivus." The slogan of Festivus is "A Festivus for the rest of us!"

The Seinfeldian origins of the Festivus traditions can be dated back to the 9th season episode titled "The Strike". In this episode Frank Costanza expresses a concern over the increased commercialism and consumerism that tends to saturate the December holiday season.

In this episode, Frank Costanza tells the story of a routine outing to secure a Christmas gift for his son George where he came to the realization that there should be a new holiday:

Frank Costanza: Many Christmases ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way.
Cosmo Kramer: What happened to the doll?
Frank Costanza: It was destroyed. But out of that a new holiday was born... a Festivus for the rest of us!
Cosmo Kramer: That must have been some kind of doll.
Frank Costanza: She was.

The idea of Festivus originally came to Seinfeld writer Dan O'Keefe from a tradition started by his own father, Daniel O'Keefe. The elder O'Keefe had unilaterally invented Festivus, which had a vague origin in 1966 on the occasion of Daniel's first date with his soon to be fiancée Deborah. As the years went by, he shared the weird facets of his unique holiday with his three sons. Later, his eldest son Dan, a television script-writer, shared it with the world by including "Festivus" in a 1997 episode of Seinfeld. 

https://festivusweb.com/index.php

[Teafortwo]

11 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I received my Covid vax part 1 yesterday morning.  My arm was a little sore, but I'd say the flu shot was worse.  I did feel some fatigue/sleepiness a couple of hours post-vax that lasted most of the day, but nothing a cup of coffee and some chocolate couldn't handle, LOL.  My hospital did a great job of streamlining the process considering we just started the vax process a few days ago.  There is definitely a light at the end of this long, dark tunnel.  

Omigosh, LauraKaye, I did not know you were a front-line worker, and I am SO, SO happy to hear you got your first round of the vaccine!! ❤️❤️❤️

 

[deirdra]

10 hours ago, suomi said:

Today is December 23. Happy Festivus to all!

A great day for Airing of Grievances, although on Primetimer we can do it 365 days a year. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by deirdra

[Gramto6]

3 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

Omigosh, LauraKaye, I did not know you were a front-line worker, and I am SO, SO happy to hear you got your first round of the vaccine!! ❤️❤️❤️

 

 Hugs to you! Hope it works. Both of my children are first line workers in CA one a fire/medical responder the other a police captain. I haven't heard yet if they have been vaccinated. As we get in touch over Christmas   I hope to find out. I worry for them as they are really on the front line.

[Yeah No]

16 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I received my Covid vax part 1 yesterday morning.  My arm was a little sore, but I'd say the flu shot was worse. 

Oh wow, our first vaccine on the board!  Good for you.  Let's hope it's the first of many more to come and a way out of this sorry mess.  Let's hope the light at the end of the tunnel isn't an oncoming train! 

13 hours ago, suomi said:

Today is December 23. Happy Festivus to all!

Were you watching Seinfeld this afternoon?  TBS was showing all the Festivus episodes, LOL.

[Yeah No]

Well, board family, I don't want to jinx anything, but I am encouraged to report that I've had my first offer on my father's apartment.  It came from a young couple from Yonkers who were incidentally the very first people who saw the apartment when it was first listed.  Their offer was $10,000 under asking price.  My realtor told me that he and his experienced team think I should hold off on countering until after Christmas because he has another showing with a very promising couple whose aunt lives in the building.  They would be a shoo-in with the board plus it would be an all cash sale, which would mean a more speedy closing (which I need).  I am sitting on my hands and listening to my realtor's advice.  He told me that the first offer isn't going to disappear because he happens to know from their realtor that they have been looking forever and have never put in an offer until now.  So they really must want the place.  When my realtor told them we were going to hold off for a few days they came back with an offer of full asking price.  He again advised me to wait until the cash offer people saw the place on Saturday.  I hate to be all "wheeler dealer" about it but I can't afford to let the cash offer people go when they could save me a lot of time and money.  My realtor tells me that everyone in his realtor group thinks I should wait and that the first couple won't bail over the weekend, especially since nothing is going to happen over this weekend anyway since things pretty much go dormant over a holiday weekend.

What a way to go into the holiday weekend, though.  I admit it's against my grain to do something like this.  I'm a wussie and would normally cave at the first offer.  If there weren't so much interest in the apartment I might have, but if even around Christmas there is this much activity that means I am in a good position to wait for the best offer.  My realtor thinks we might get into a bidding war situation and I could get more than asking price!  If only I could be that lucky - I am really due for that kind of luck right now.  It's also not lost on me that this feels like a Christmas gift from my parents.  I feel like they want me to know that all is not lost and to keep a more positive attitude. 

Anyway, I hate these kinds of situations!  It reminds me of when I was young and always had to deal with multiple job offers (yeah, can you imagine that?  I can't even get one job offer now because of being a COL).  

I admit that it has been very hard for me keep positive given all the horrible things happening in the past year (or even years if I look at all I've been through).  My best friend put it into perspective for me on the phone yesterday.  She says my life has been on a downhill roller coaster for about 5 years now.  She started with me enduring a new narcissistic, horrible boss who almost gave me a nervous breakdown 5 year ago, continued with me falling in the parking lot at work and breaking my arm really bad 4 years ago, then being home for months recuperating and undergoing physical therapy to regain the use of my arm/hand, getting terminated from my job while on workers' comp. for no reason (I had just gotten another new boss who liked me by then), then having the nightmare of my gallbladder attacks, then the gallbladder surgery in 2018 which I put off because I had to have my then 90 year old father come live with me for 3 months while the elevator in his building was being replaced, then realizing that I was still not well and needed 3 more endoscopic procedures to remove the stone fragments stuck in my bile duct.  By the middle of 2019 I had already been through the wringer and was just starting to come back to a sense of normal despite being unemployed and constantly interviewing but getting oh-so-close several times with no job offer.  Then toward the end of 2019 my Dad had an infected leg due to not taking care of a condition on his legs, which put him in the hospital in January of 2020.  Then my life revolved around that and his aftercare here in CT in a nursing home for a couple of weeks in Jan./February, then at home in his apartment in the Bronx.  And then he got Covid in March and died in early April, and the rest is another odyssey of horror that you all remember.

Could this be the start of better things to come in the new year?  I really, really hope so.  I feel like we're all on the precipice between the awful year behind us and some promising news for the future with the vaccine on the horizon and other things.  Let's just hope so.  I admit it is hard for me to be that hopeful right now, but I am trying really hard.

As for me, even if I cry all the way through it, I am definitely watching the 1952 version of "Scrooge" with Alistair Sim.  Everyone in my family was a big fan of it from my grandma and grandpa down to me, my parents and my husband.  I grew up watching it every year and we'd all sit around the table at Christmas reciting lines from the movie.  My step-grandpa and father would imitate Marley's ghost every year and we'd all have a good laugh.  Every year I watch the movie and every year it means something more to me that I never felt before.  I am very sure that what has happened in the past year will add a new and more poignant meaning to the movie for me.  I know I will need a box of tissues close by.

My thanks to all of you on this board, you have been a real source of support for me and each other during a rough time for all of us.  And Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas to everyone! 

 

[suomi]

Re the apartment: listen to your still, small voice. Be brave. Here's to asking price or even a bidding war.

Bottoms up!

[suomi]

Someone recommended the new Bee Gees documentary and I can't find your post to thank you. Omigosh, so glad I watched it!

This doc is two years old and I never heard of it, no idea how it got past me. 

We meet a DJ who was invited to accompany the first American tour. He refused but management insisted that he accept the assignment. Before he left his father pulled him aside and said "Watch your back. These men are a menace to society." LOL.

My stepdad opened his first record store when he came home after WWII and he stayed in the music business until he died in the late '80s.

By the late '60s he was so sick of hearing me talk about the Beatles and my predictions about their place in society that he destroyed my albums and broke my transistor radio.

A little while before he died 20 years later (long after he and my mom divorced) he called me and said "I thought about you recently when I heard the Beatles in the grocery store and an elevator and I realized that you were right."

He apologized while telling me he that he sold more of the Beatles over the years than any other artist. I said "More than Sinatra?" He said yes and offered to give me their entire catalog on vinyl but I accepted his apology and passed on the offer.

Bummer, but it wouldn't have been the same, you know? He reached out and that was what counted.

Edited December 24, 2020 by suomi

[iwantcookies]

On 12/18/2020 at 5:26 AM, suomi said:

Does anyone make Russian salad (Olivier salad) via the Hermitage Restaurant in Moscow? I came across it tonight and looked at a few recipes. Thinking I might try it without meat, I see ham, chicken or tuna used most often. Any tips or tricks? 

I just finished my third batch of pasta fazool and I'm in the mood to finely dice potatoes and carrots for a change of pace. Omitting meat would leave me with potatoes, carrots, onions, peas, eggs and pickles. It looks prettier than it sounds, and I'm big on things I can make in batches and eat all week.

I live in NYC and if craving Russian food go to Russian supermarket. I actually just ate some Olivier yesterday. 
 

you can make it without meat. it’s your food customize it to your liking. 
 

Typically native Russians use bologna/hotdogs, pickles, canned peas, mayo in theirs. Where I buy it they use chicken meat. 

[Teafortwo]

16 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Well, board family, I don't want to jinx anything, but I am encouraged to report that I've had my first offer on my father's apartment. 

This is such fantastic news - and yes! it may be a Christmas gift/sign from your parents. I will hold off on congratulations until it's all finalized (so as not to be a jinx either) but both parties sound extremely interested. 

To everyone on the Board, Merry Christmas (to those who celebrate it) and thanks for helping me get through this very tough year. Love to all!

[Jeanne222]

Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays to all!  It been a year we shall all, long remember!

[Rabbit Hutch]

Merry Christmas, you bunch of lug-nuts!  I got a very nice surprise, as DH was sent "through the house" with his Christmas load, and he got last night and tonight off at home for the holiday.  He has to go back tomorrow afternoon, but what a nice gift for moi.

Wishing all y'all the best of the holiday season.  😘

[Gramto6]

Merry Christmas to one and all! Here's hoping 2021 will be a much better year! Hugs to every one of you!

[Yeah No]

11 hours ago, Teafortwo said:

This is such fantastic news - and yes! it may be a Christmas gift/sign from your parents. I will hold off on congratulations until it's all finalized (so as not to be a jinx either) but both parties sound extremely interested. 

To everyone on the Board, Merry Christmas (to those who celebrate it) and thanks for helping me get through this very tough year. Love to all!

Thanks, and your welcome, love to you too!  I thought that too about the offer being a gift/sign from my parents.  Of course, true to form this year is like the anti-gift that keeps on taking, so anything that good must be a miracle for sure.  The latest disappointment is that a foot of snow that fell last week in New England was wiped out in one dose of heavy rain last night.  Figures, we'd get screwed out of a white Christmas too.  To better days ahead for you and everyone!

[xwordfanatik]

Here's to 2021 being a better year!  Happy Holidays, all!  Thank you for being here and your posts, that have made me laugh, smile and appreciate you.  ♥️

[Kohola3]

Wishing everyone the happiest of days, whatever you celebrate.  Looking forward to the end of this nightmare year with hopes of a new and positive start in 2021!

 

[suomi]

My sister and I are grateful for our warm and cozy home, full bellies, able bodies and fur babies. We are blessed.

Sending holiday greetings to all in our little community which is a pleasure to visit 8 days a week.

Check out this snow fight in France in 1897, restored and colorized. Uh oh, the dude on the bicycle!

 

 

[iwantcookies]

Merry Christmas to all !

I want the vaccine but I’m scared of the allergic reactions some people get.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:

Merry Christmas to all !

I want the vaccine but I’m scared of the allergic reactions some people get.

Agree.   I want to wait and see what happens, then I might.  This years flu shot, caused my arm to itch at the injection site.   Which it has never done before.  Always sore, but never itched.  Then again that could be the band-aid they put on it.  Who knows.

[Jeanne222]

A couple of doctor's in our family are taking a wait and see with the vaccine.

My son suggests we take the second vaccine and not the Physer one.  I noticed that's the one Dr Fashi took.

I've spelled the company and doctors name wrong.  It's been a long week!

[suomi]

4 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

A couple of doctor's in our family are taking a wait and see with the vaccine.

My son suggests we take the second vaccine and not the Physer one.  I noticed that's the one Dr Fashi took.

The human error factor concerns me somewhat but not the vaccines themselves, if that makes sense. I was born in 1950 so I'm old enough to remember the debuts of the Salk and Sabin vaccines when polio was a big damn deal.

Between polio hysteria and hiding under my desk or snuggling my face against a curb during atomic bomb drills in elementary school I was a very anxious kid! I couldn't figure out how sheets of newspaper could protect me against the blasts they showed us in the scary movies we watched in the cafeteria. But no one could tell me how thick water is so I was pretty sure, or hoped, that most adults were full of shit. 

Polio surged in spring and summer and was thought to be airborne or transmitted when people were swimming but the exact dynamic was a mystery. Now we know that the cause is inhalation of airborne particles or fecal material containing the virus entering the mouth. It can be spread for 2 weeks after incubation without symptoms in the carriers.

My grandparents built a pool in their backyard in 1956 (SoCal woo hoo) because they refused to let us swim in public pools; we were allowed to swim only in their pool or in the ocean, no lakes or streams or rivers. (I guess the theory was that salt water was safe). 

The 1954 breakthrough vaccine, the Salk vaccine, was an injectable made with killed virus. The manufacturer who supplied the western states in the US unknowingly distributed a batch which contained remnants of live virus. Enough virus remained to cause infection with 40,000 of 200,000 injections given (20%) and 10 deaths. The vaccine was not pulled from distribution until 250 active cases had been reported but the damage had been done by then and they determined later that 100,000 doses contained live virus. When paralysis appeared it occurred in the limb where the injection was given so that was a huge clue. 

We lived in a western state obviously (Cali) and, stroke of luck, my mother had refused the Salk vaccine when it debuted because she wanted to "wait and see." (See my mother's and grandmother's experience below re that outlook). We were not vaccinated until 1961 when the Sabin oral sugar cube vaccine became available. It was so safe and successful that it is still used today (60 years later). I clearly remember standing in a long, long line in a breezeway at our local mall, slowly making our way to the card tables covered with tiny cups containing sugar cubes. 

Transmitted primarily via feces but also through airborne droplets from person to person, polio took six to 20 days to incubate and remained contagious for up to two weeks after. The disease had first emerged in the United States in 1894, but the first large epidemic happened in 1916 when public health experts recorded 27,000 cases and 6,000 deaths - roughly a third in New York City alone.

After rabies and smallpox, polio was only the third viral disease scientists had discovered at the time, writes David Oshinksi in Polio: An American Story. But a lot remained unknown. Some blamed Italian immigrants, others pointed to car exhausts, a few believed cats were to blame. But its long incubation period, among other things, made it difficult even for experts to determine how the virus transferred.

The prevalence of polio in late spring and summer popularized the “fly theory,” explains Vincent Cirillo in the American Entomologist. Most middle-class Americans tended to associate disease with flies, dirt and poverty. And the seasonal surge of the disease in summer and apparent dormancy in winter matched the rise and fall of the mosquito population.

After World War II, Americans doused their neighborhoods, homes and children with the highly toxic pesticide DDT in the hope of banishing polio, Elena Conis reports in the journal Environmental History. Yet, the number of cases grew larger each season. There were 25,000 cases in 1946 - as many as in 1916, writes Oshinski - and the number grew almost every year up to its peak of 52,000 in 1952.

There were signs of hope. The 1930s had seen significant improvements in the iron lung, a negative pressure chamber that could assist the breathing process for severely paralyzed patients. The March of Dimes organization campaigned aggressively to fund the development of a vaccine. 

The Journal of Pediatrics, parenting guru Benjamin Spock, every expert and most editorial boards warned against irrational “polio hysteria.” And yet, Oshinski tells us, headlines and images of polio victims were familiar features on the front pages in the summer months. American parents were petrified. A 1952 survey found that Americans feared only nuclear annihilation more than polio.

The random pattern the disease struck made parents feel helpless, along with the lack of a cure. As middle-class parents saw it, something like this was not supposed to happen. Infectious disease had been the leading cause of death in 1900, it was no longer in 1950. They had survived the Great Depression, fought and won World War II, and returned safely from a dangerous world. Oshinski shares this recollection of a journalist from that time: “Into this buoyant postwar era came a fearsome disease to haunt their lives and to help spoil for those young parents the idealized notion of what family life would be. Polio was a crack in the fantasy.”

https://www.history.com/news/polio-fear-post-wwii-era

- - - 
My maternal grandmother lost the younger of her two daughters (6-year-old Joan) in Tulsa during the Great Depression when sulfa drugs, the forerunners of antibiotics, were a bona fide miracle. The local drug store sold her a bottle of a raspberry-flavored elixir which was not correctly manufactured and Joan died in agony. But the current Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act was created after the publicity and outrage surrounding more than 100 deaths resulting from that bad batch of sulfanilamide, mostly children. My grandmother told me that a pharmacist in Oklahoma committed suicide because of the part he played. It's sad to know that Joan rests in a lonely grave in Tulsa because my grandmother was buried in SoCal 40 years later. 

On the third page down at the link is an excerpt from a letter my grandmother wrote to FDR. After she died I found the tablet she used to compose her letter, making many edits until she was satisfied. She went on to have a series of nervous breakdowns and spent more money than she could afford going to seances, trying to communicate with Joan's spirit. Her best little dress and shoes hung on the wall for many years. My grandmother actively grieved for an unhealthy length of time and became a very fearful person. Her sisters, my great aunts, told me she was never the same after Joan's death. She eventually turned her back on organized medicine and became a Christian Scientist for the rest of her life. She took us to doctors but would not go for herself. Short-sighted to be sure but understandable, considering her trauma and guilt.

The rest of my mother's childhood (and much of her life) was miserable because she felt like (perhaps was made to feel like) an undeserving survivor and people didn't know from counseling in those days. I always knew that my mother didn't like me and I didn't know why. I turned myself inside out trying to please her. When I was in my thirties I found out that when I was born and brought home from the hospital my grandmother said "Look at this child, Joan has come back to us." My great aunt Lucille told me she had to leave the room because of the look on my mother's face, and she feared that I faced a rough road. My relationship with my mother made sense after I heard that story and I wished I had known it sooner. 

Taste of Raspberries, Taste of Death - The 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide Incident

By the 1930s it was widely recognized that the Food and Drugs Act of 1906 was obsolete, but bitter disagreement arose as to what should replace it. By 1937 most of the arguments had been resolved but Congressional action was stalled. Then came a shocking development - the deaths of more than 100 people after using a drug that was clearly unsafe. The incident hastened final enactment in 1938 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, the statute that today remains the basis for FDA regulation of these products.

Victims of Elixir Sulfanilamide poisoning - many of them children being treated for sore throats - were ill about 7 to 21 days. All exhibited similar symptoms, characteristic of kidney failure: stoppage of urine, severe abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, stupor, and convulsions. They suffered intense and unrelenting pain. At the time there was no known antidote or treatment for diethylene glycol poisoning.

In a letter to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, a woman described the death of her child: "The first time I ever had occasion to call in a doctor for [Joan] and she was given Elixir of Sulfanilamide. All that is left to us is the caring for her little grave. Even the memory of her is mixed with sorrow for we can see her little body tossing to and fro and hear that little voice screaming with pain and it seems as though it would drive me insane. ... It is my plea that you will take steps to prevent such sales of drugs that will take little lives and leave such suffering behind and such a bleak outlook on the future as I have tonight."

http://gmptrainingsystems.com/files/u1/pdf/Sulfanilamide_article.pdf 

Joan's photo with her Shirley Temple curls is on this page.

Although the first fatalities due to Elixir Sulfanilamide did not occur in Oklahoma, elixir-related deaths there were the first to be recognized on a national scale thanks to the early-warning efforts of Tulsa physicians. 

FDA Station Chief Hartigan and Junior Inspector Donaldson, who were dispatched to the city on October 15th, learned that more than six gallons (6.625) of Elixir Sulfanilamide had been distributed from Massengill’s Kansas City, Missouri, branch to 18 drug stores among nine communities within the state.

In their canvass of recipient drug stores, the FDA men discovered that less than half of the elixir had been returned intact to the manufacturer as a result of Massengill’s recall wires. The agents’ responsibility, therefore, became to locate the whereabouts of the outstanding volume (more than 3-1/2 gallons), which had been used, they would learn, to fill 38 prescriptions for 39 Oklahomans.

These prescriptions were ultimately determined to have caused the deaths of 11 residents, including eight children. 

Joan Marlar (right), the six-year-old daughter of R. R. Marlar and Maise Nidiffer, from Tulsa, died on October 5th at the city’s Morningside Hospital. The girl’s death was reported publicly in a brief funeral notice by the Tulsa Tribune on October 7th, before the lethality of Elixir Sulfanilamide became known.

From the girl’s mother, Hartigan learned that Dr. Logan Spann had prescribed Elixir Sulfanilamide on September 26th, as treatment for a sore throat, and that the prescription was “sent out” from the Getman Drug Store and cost $1. After consuming a total of one half of the three-ounce treatment, the girl was hospitalized with anuria. Death was initially attributed to “streptococcus nephritis.” The child was buried in Rose Hill Cemetery on October 7th.

During their investigation, Hartigan and Donaldson discovered that Dr. Spann had deliberately destroyed the pharmacy record of Joan’s elixir prescription. In December of 1937, Joan’s mother received $1,250 from the Massengill company as compensation for Joan’s death.

https://bmartinmd.com/eos-deaths-oklahoma/

Edited December 26, 2020 by suomi
typo

[Absolom]

This morning I read that the current thinking is it's the PEG (polyethylene glycol) in the two vaccines that is causing the reactions.  It's a common ingredient in things like laxatives such as Miralax and colonoscopy prep solutions.  If that's what is causing the reactions, many people will already know if they aren't allergic to it.

[Gramto6]

13 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Merry Christmas to all !

I want the vaccine but I’m scared of the allergic reactions some people get.

Me too, having had a bad anaphylactic reaction to Paxil, I am going to wait a long time and watch reactions before I take a chance. My son as a fireman has already had the Moderna vaccine and seems fine. He's in CA 

[Kohola3]

The number of allergic reactions has been miniscule in relation to the number of doses administered so far.  As Absolom said, there is evidence that it might be one of the ingredients but they are making sure that there is treatment available for any anaphylactic reactions.   I think we will hear more and more as the rollout continues.

My cousin is an anesthesiologist at Childrens Hospital of MI and was one of the test subjects for Moderna. He is pretty sure he had the real thing because of some soreness in his arm.  Nothing else of concern.

Obviously we all have to make our own choices.  For the sake of others and for our health care workers, first responders, and front line workers I will get it whenever I am advised to do so.  Not sure when that will be or how it will happen though!  My PCP  office has been sending out bulletines so I wam expecting to hear sometime after the new year.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

This morning I read that the current thinking is it's the PEG (polyethylene glycol) in the two vaccines that is causing the reactions.  It's a common ingredient in things like laxatives such as Miralax and colonoscopy prep solutions.  If that's what is causing the reactions, many people will already know if they aren't allergic to it.

Polyethylene glycol is an ingredient in Extra Strength Tylenol which I take all the time, so I'd be happy if that's the culprit because it would mean that very few people would be unable to take it.  I think that we will learn more as the situation evolves.  The experts are very motivated to find the answer because they don't want people unnecessarily avoiding the vaccine based on a handful of allergic reactions.  I am optimistic that by the time it's my turn to get the vaccine they will have a pretty good idea of what's causing it.

[xwordfanatik]

I'll take it at my first opportunity without hesitation.  I took the swine flu vaccination in the 70's, and had no ill effects, although it was not without risk.  I'm sure I would misspell the syndrome that it caused it some cases, but someone here will know.

I'll also continue to social distance, wear a mask, and generally try to avoid getting Covid every which way I can.  That's just me.  I've only had hospitalization twice, once for a childhood appendectomy, and once for childbirth.  It's especially scary to think of it now.

[deirdra]

2 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

I'll take it at my first opportunity without hesitation.  I took the swine flu vaccination in the 70's, and had no ill effects, although it was not without risk.  I'm sure I would misspell the syndrome that it caused it some cases, but someone here will know.

Guillain-Barré syndrome ?

Edited December 26, 2020 by deirdra

[xwordfanatik]

That's it.  Thank you @deirdra.

[Teafortwo]

14 hours ago, suomi said:

The human error factor concerns me somewhat but not the vaccines themselves, if that makes sense. I was born in 1950 so I'm old enough to remember the debuts of the Salk and Sabin vaccines when polio was a big damn deal.

Between polio hysteria and hiding under my desk or snuggling my face against a curb during atomic bomb drills in elementary school I was a very anxious kid! I couldn't figure out how sheets of newspaper could protect me against the blasts they showed us in the scary movies we watched in the cafeteria. But no one could tell me how thick water is so I was pretty sure, or hoped, that most adults were full of shit. 

Polio surged in spring and summer and was thought to be airborne or transmitted when people were swimming but the exact dynamic was a mystery. Now we know that the cause is inhalation of airborne particles or fecal material containing the virus entering the mouth. It can be spread for 2 weeks after incubation without symptoms in the carriers.

My grandparents built a pool in their backyard in 1956 (SoCal woo hoo) because they refused to let us swim in public pools; we were allowed to swim only in their pool or in the ocean, no lakes or streams or rivers. (I guess the theory was that salt water was safe). 

The 1954 breakthrough vaccine, the Salk vaccine, was an injectable made with killed virus. The manufacturer who supplied the western states in the US unknowingly distributed a batch which contained remnants of live virus. Enough virus remained to cause infection with 40,000 of 200,000 injections given (20%) and 10 deaths. The vaccine was not pulled from distribution until 250 active cases had been reported but the damage had been done by then and they determined later that 100,000 doses contained live virus. When paralysis appeared it occurred in the limb where the injection was given so that was a huge clue. 

We lived in a western state obviously (Cali) and, stroke of luck, my mother had refused the Salk vaccine when it debuted because she wanted to "wait and see." (See my mother's and grandmother's experience below re that outlook). We were not vaccinated until 1961 when the Sabin oral sugar cube vaccine became available. It was so safe and successful that it is still used today (60 years later). I clearly remember standing in a long, long line in a breezeway at our local mall, slowly making our way to the card tables covered with tiny cups containing sugar cubes. 

Transmitted primarily via feces but also through airborne droplets from person to person, polio took six to 20 days to incubate and remained contagious for up to two weeks after. The disease had first emerged in the United States in 1894, but the first large epidemic happened in 1916 when public health experts recorded 27,000 cases and 6,000 deaths - roughly a third in New York City alone.

After rabies and smallpox, polio was only the third viral disease scientists had discovered at the time, writes David Oshinksi in Polio: An American Story. But a lot remained unknown. Some blamed Italian immigrants, others pointed to car exhausts, a few believed cats were to blame. But its long incubation period, among other things, made it difficult even for experts to determine how the virus transferred.

The prevalence of polio in late spring and summer popularized the “fly theory,” explains Vincent Cirillo in the American Entomologist. Most middle-class Americans tended to associate disease with flies, dirt and poverty. And the seasonal surge of the disease in summer and apparent dormancy in winter matched the rise and fall of the mosquito population.

After World War II, Americans doused their neighborhoods, homes and children with the highly toxic pesticide DDT in the hope of banishing polio, Elena Conis reports in the journal Environmental History. Yet, the number of cases grew larger each season. There were 25,000 cases in 1946 - as many as in 1916, writes Oshinski - and the number grew almost every year up to its peak of 52,000 in 1952.

There were signs of hope. The 1930s had seen significant improvements in the iron lung, a negative pressure chamber that could assist the breathing process for severely paralyzed patients. The March of Dimes organization campaigned aggressively to fund the development of a vaccine. 

The Journal of Pediatrics, parenting guru Benjamin Spock, every expert and most editorial boards warned against irrational “polio hysteria.” And yet, Oshinski tells us, headlines and images of polio victims were familiar features on the front pages in the summer months. American parents were petrified. A 1952 survey found that Americans feared only nuclear annihilation more than polio.

The random pattern the disease struck made parents feel helpless, along with the lack of a cure. As middle-class parents saw it, something like this was not supposed to happen. Infectious disease had been the leading cause of death in 1900, it was no longer in 1950. They had survived the Great Depression, fought and won World War II, and returned safely from a dangerous world. Oshinski shares this recollection of a journalist from that time: “Into this buoyant postwar era came a fearsome disease to haunt their lives and to help spoil for those young parents the idealized notion of what family life would be. Polio was a crack in the fantasy.”

https://www.history.com/news/polio-fear-post-wwii-era

- - - 
My maternal grandmother lost the younger of her two daughters (6-year-old Joan) in Tulsa during the Great Depression when sulfa drugs, the forerunners of antibiotics, were a bona fide miracle. The local drug store sold her a bottle of a raspberry-flavored elixir which was not correctly manufactured and Joan died in agony. But the current Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act was created after the publicity and outrage surrounding more than 100 deaths resulting from that bad batch of sulfanilamide, mostly children. My grandmother told me that a pharmacist in Oklahoma committed suicide because of the part he played. It's sad to know that Joan rests in a lonely grave in Tulsa because my grandmother was buried in SoCal 40 years later. 

On the third page down at the link is an excerpt from a letter my grandmother wrote to FDR. After she died I found the tablet she used to compose her letter, making many edits until she was satisfied. She went on to have a series of nervous breakdowns and spent more money than she could afford going to seances, trying to communicate with Joan's spirit. Her best little dress and shoes hung on the wall for many years. My grandmother actively grieved for an unhealthy length of time and became a very fearful person. Her sisters, my great aunts, told me she was never the same after Joan's death. She eventually turned her back on organized medicine and became a Christian Scientist for the rest of her life. She took us to doctors but would not go for herself. Short-sighted to be sure but understandable, considering her trauma and guilt.

The rest of my mother's childhood (and much of her life) was miserable because she felt like (perhaps was made to feel like) an undeserving survivor and people didn't know from counseling in those days. I always knew that my mother didn't like me and I didn't know why. I turned myself inside out trying to please her. When I was in my thirties I found out that when I was born and brought home from the hospital my grandmother said "Look at this child, Joan has come back to us." My great aunt Lucille told me she had to leave the room because of the look on my mother's face, and she feared that I faced a rough road. My relationship with my mother made sense after I heard that story and I wished I had known it sooner. 

Taste of Raspberries, Taste of Death - The 1937 Elixir Sulfanilamide Incident

By the 1930s it was widely recognized that the Food and Drugs Act of 1906 was obsolete, but bitter disagreement arose as to what should replace it. By 1937 most of the arguments had been resolved but Congressional action was stalled. Then came a shocking development - the deaths of more than 100 people after using a drug that was clearly unsafe. The incident hastened final enactment in 1938 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, the statute that today remains the basis for FDA regulation of these products.

Victims of Elixir Sulfanilamide poisoning - many of them children being treated for sore throats - were ill about 7 to 21 days. All exhibited similar symptoms, characteristic of kidney failure: stoppage of urine, severe abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, stupor, and convulsions. They suffered intense and unrelenting pain. At the time there was no known antidote or treatment for diethylene glycol poisoning.

In a letter to President Franklin D. Roosevelt, a woman described the death of her child: "The first time I ever had occasion to call in a doctor for [Joan] and she was given Elixir of Sulfanilamide. All that is left to us is the caring for her little grave. Even the memory of her is mixed with sorrow for we can see her little body tossing to and fro and hear that little voice screaming with pain and it seems as though it would drive me insane. ... It is my plea that you will take steps to prevent such sales of drugs that will take little lives and leave such suffering behind and such a bleak outlook on the future as I have tonight."

http://gmptrainingsystems.com/files/u1/pdf/Sulfanilamide_article.pdf 

Joan's photo with her Shirley Temple curls is on this page.

Although the first fatalities due to Elixir Sulfanilamide did not occur in Oklahoma, elixir-related deaths there were the first to be recognized on a national scale thanks to the early-warning efforts of Tulsa physicians. 

FDA Station Chief Hartigan and Junior Inspector Donaldson, who were dispatched to the city on October 15th, learned that more than six gallons (6.625) of Elixir Sulfanilamide had been distributed from Massengill’s Kansas City, Missouri, branch to 18 drug stores among nine communities within the state.

In their canvass of recipient drug stores, the FDA men discovered that less than half of the elixir had been returned intact to the manufacturer as a result of Massengill’s recall wires. The agents’ responsibility, therefore, became to locate the whereabouts of the outstanding volume (more than 3-1/2 gallons), which had been used, they would learn, to fill 38 prescriptions for 39 Oklahomans.

These prescriptions were ultimately determined to have caused the deaths of 11 residents, including eight children. 

Joan Marlar (right), the six-year-old daughter of R. R. Marlar and Maise Nidiffer, from Tulsa, died on October 5th at the city’s Morningside Hospital. The girl’s death was reported publicly in a brief funeral notice by the Tulsa Tribune on October 7th, before the lethality of Elixir Sulfanilamide became known.

From the girl’s mother, Hartigan learned that Dr. Logan Spann had prescribed Elixir Sulfanilamide on September 26th, as treatment for a sore throat, and that the prescription was “sent out” from the Getman Drug Store and cost $1. After consuming a total of one half of the three-ounce treatment, the girl was hospitalized with anuria. Death was initially attributed to “streptococcus nephritis.” The child was buried in Rose Hill Cemetery on October 7th.

During their investigation, Hartigan and Donaldson discovered that Dr. Spann had deliberately destroyed the pharmacy record of Joan’s elixir prescription. In December of 1937, Joan’s mother received $1,250 from the Massengill company as compensation for Joan’s death.

https://bmartinmd.com/eos-deaths-oklahoma/

My heart just goes out to you, Suomi. What a tragedy for your family, and you, and your relationship with your mother. Such awful collateral damage. So very, very sad.

[Teafortwo]

5 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

I'll take it at my first opportunity without hesitation.  I took the swine flu vaccination in the 70's, and had no ill effects, although it was not without risk.  I'm sure I would misspell the syndrome that it caused it some cases, but someone here will know.

I'll also continue to social distance, wear a mask, and generally try to avoid getting Covid every which way I can.  That's just me.  I've only had hospitalization twice, once for a childhood appendectomy, and once for childbirth.  It's especially scary to think of it now.

I'm with you all the way on this.