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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Spoiler Discussion Thread

Morrigan2575

By Morrigan2575
in Arrow

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Chaser

Chaser

Episode descriptions are released 3 weeks prior to the episode airing. If They only skip a week then we should get 419's description next week. If they skip 2 weeks then we get 419's description on 4/6 or 4/7 after the death airs.

Based on the promo I'm guessing Laurel uses the Canary Cry in the lair to kill the Bees either while they're still in Oliver or as they come out of his body after they cut him open?

Thank you.

I think they are going to use the collar as some type of EMP.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

Hmm. Calculator coming back would make sense with how rushed they ended his appearance. It always felt like there should be more. And we never learned who hired him. It probably was HIVE.

Edited by Guest
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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They would have to skip 2 weeks of episodes then. So they are either skipping 2 weeks of episodes in a row or just 1 and another break sometime after episode 19

Pretty much.  It's either a 2 week break after 419 or a 1 week break and then another 1 week break towards the end of the season.

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tv echo

tv echo

I agree that the next episode will play up Oliver and Laurel moments.  From the 417 extended promo, Oliver gets stung/infected by the bees because he jumps in front of Laurel to protect her.  Then Laurel will use the Canary Cry to save Oliver.  Yes, it does seem cruel if Laurel is the one dying in 418 (still saying "if" to hedge my bets.)  They'll probably also drop Quentin death anvils in 418 before the actual death.

 

I wonder if the super-contrived Olicity break-up was done partly in response to the EPs' decision to kill off Laurel (if that is what happens)?  You know, so they can say they aren't playing favorites but are an equal opportunity buzz-killer, so to speak.  They take away Laurel/BC, but they also take away Olicity.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I've been thinking - is there any possibility at all that Malcolm is kind of a double agent with HIVE? Like, that he's working independently unbeknownst to the team, and he'll show up at some pivotal point with information that will be helpful to the team if they're willing to trust him (which they probably won't be, considering he's a shit stain, and also had a hand—pun intended—in William's kidnapping)? Maybe the "him" they're talking about in the limo really is DD? 

 

Or, maybe it's Malcolm and it's the setup for his second turn as a full-on villain next year. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Could be, given his speech to Thea about her not seeing the bigger picture or whatever. 

 

I'm not sure whether to hang my hopes on a long con, because that means more pretzel-twisting to fit Malcolm into plot, but leaves the chance that he might be around less, or hope for full-on villain, which definitely means more, but hopefully less pretzel-twisting. I'll take either possibility if it ultimately results in his death, haha.

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Guest

Guest

(edited)

I agree that the next episode will play up Oliver and Laurel moments.  From the 417 extended promo, Oliver gets stung/infected by the bees because he jumps in front of Laurel to protect her.  Then Laurel will use the Canary Cry to save Oliver.  Yes, it does seem cruel if Laurel is the one dying in 418 (still saying "if" to hedge my bets.)  They'll probably also drop Quentin death anvils in 418 before the actual death.

 

Oliver saves Laurel from a bee! OMG HE WUVS HER! Haha.

 

No but if people want to buy into those moments as meaningful or relevant...yikes. I feel sorry for them though. We're coming off an episode where Oliver just told Felicity she was his always and his everything. I mean, what more proof do people need?! LOL.

 

I do think we're gonna see Quentin death anvils more and more though. It wouldn't surprise me if 418 ended on a cliffhanger where it looks like more than one life is in the balance and Quentin is one of them.

 

I've been thinking - is there any possibility at all that Malcolm is kind of a double agent with HIVE? Like, that he's working independently unbeknownst to the team, and he'll show up at some pivotal point with information that will be helpful to the team if they're willing to trust him (which they probably won't be, considering he's a shit stain, and also had a hand—pun intended—in William's kidnapping)? Maybe the "him" they're talking about in the limo really is DD? 

 

Or, maybe it's Malcolm and it's the setup for his second turn as a full-on villain next year. 

 

That could actually be a good twist because at this point we're all thinking the 'him' is Malcolm so it would subvert expectations again. I don't know how I feel about them trying to suggest Malcolm is a misunderstood hero though. 

 

They could also do this and Malcolm could be playing them all just to get in a position of power again. Like he's running a long con and making it look like he's helping the team when really he's just doing it to get rid of Damien?

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quarks

quarks

 

I wonder if the super-contrived Olicity break-up was done partly in response to the EPs' decision to kill off Laurel (if that is what happens)?  You know, so they can say they aren't playing favorites but are an equal opportunity buzz-killer, so to speak.  They take away Laurel/BC, but they also take away Olicity.

 

I doubt that Laurel played any role in breaking the Olicity plot at all. They're breaking them up because a) television requires a breakup or a "oh no, it won't really be happening after all!" between the engagement and the wedding with potential additional shenanigans on the wedding episode. Comedies can sometimes get away with just having the shenanigans on the wedding episode, but everyone else apparently has to go through this, as if to remind us that television is not exactly real life, b) Arrow wants to tease a big Oliver/Felicity moment in episode 422 and give us a payoff in 423 to up the ratings/viewers for the season finale.

 

I personally would have preferred them to handle part b with more of a "Felicity vanishes! NOW WHAT?" sorta plot, but that might not have led to what passes for emotional growth on this show.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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(edited)

I've been thinking - is there any possibility at all that Malcolm is kind of a double agent with HIVE? Like, that he's working independently unbeknownst to the team, and he'll show up at some pivotal point with information that will be helpful to the team if they're willing to trust him (which they probably won't be, considering he's a shit stain, and also had a hand—pun intended—in William's kidnapping)? Maybe the "him" they're talking about in the limo really is DD? 

 

Or, maybe it's Malcolm and it's the setup for his second turn as a full-on villain next year. 

No, no, no...I NEED Malcolm to be the "him" and to be DED at the end of S4...come on Arrow!  

 

In all seriousness though,  I don't see it.  Merlyn helped Oliver out in S3 because it got him something he wanted, freedom from Ra's and control of the LoA.  I can't see Merlyn doing anything to help TA against HIVE because it gets him nothing, especially after Oliver took the LoA and Merlyn's hand away from him

Edited by Morrigan2575
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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

I agree that the next episode will play up Oliver and Laurel moments.  From the 417 extended promo, Oliver gets stung/infected by the bees because he jumps in front of Laurel to protect her.  Then Laurel will use the Canary Cry to save Oliver.  Yes, it does seem cruel if Laurel is the one dying in 418 (still saying "if" to hedge my bets.)  They'll probably also drop Quentin death anvils in 418 before the actual death.

 

I wonder if the super-contrived Olicity break-up was done partly in response to the EPs' decision to kill off Laurel (if that is what happens)?  You know, so they can say they aren't playing favorites but are an equal opportunity buzz-killer, so to speak.  They take away Laurel/BC, but they also take away Olicity.

 

I really doubt they're gonna play up Oliver/Laurel moments. Laurel moments WILL get played up, just as Roy's were to set up his own departure. Will those include Oliver? I'm sure. But I don't think they will be O/L moments per se. Just as I don't think anything regarding Laurel played a part in the Olicity breakup. I highly doubt the EPs even considered her when crafting the breakup. The breakup is part of textbook TV romance. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

In all seriousness though,  I don't see it.  Merlyn helped Oliver out in S3 because it got him something he wanted, freedom from Ra's and control of the LoA.  I can't see Merlyn doing anything to help TA against HIVE because it gets him nothing, especially after Oliver took the LoA and Merlyn's hand away from him

 

I wasn't thinking that he'd be working undercover specifically to help them, but that he'd be working toward some personal Merlyn goal (taking over HIVE, or some other type of underhanded thing) and then will use them to help him accomplish that goal, by feeding whatever information he's learned in is double-agenting to get them to do his bidding. Kind of similar to what happened in S3, where Malcolm was willing to work with Oliver to defeat Ra's - It helped Oliver get rid of his LoA problem, but also got Malcolm something that he wanted. Only this time Oliver wouldn't actually be an active participant in any kind of agreement like that, just the facilitator of getting Malcolm whatever he wanted by using his info to defeat HIVE or something. 

 

I don't necessarily *want* that, but this show seems to love both Malcolm and retreads, so it's something I've been thinking about.

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jay741982

jay741982

It would make sense to me if they did bring back The Calculator this season, because I think part of the reason that Felicity can't trust that Oliver has changed is her abandonment issues form her Dad, as well as his latest betrayal. We also still don't now who he was working for and why, that whole storyline was so damn rushed.

For Oliver and Felicity to reconcile, Felicity needs to move away from her "people don't change" stance and Oliver need to give a big damn gesture to show that he trusts her and prioritises her.

It will be interesting to see Donna's talk with Felicity next week,, though I'm still not sure what Thea is doing at PT with them.

Probably to Get on Felicity's case Knowing MG we had Diggle say "She'll come around" last night we will probably get "But it was a promise not a lie how can you treat my brother this way " from Thea next week

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calliope1975

calliope1975

Has there been any spoilers on how Curtis gets down into the lair? Does Felicity send him? Does Oliver & Co. recruit him? Or does he use his terrificness to suss out the lair on his own? 

 

I'm betting on Felicity sending him.

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thegirlsleuth

thegirlsleuth

If Felicity's Dad is back at the end of the season, I hope he has met Damien in prison and teams up with him.  I really do think that they are not going to finish off Damien this season.

 

I think the episode showed very clearly that the team's dynamic won't suffer one bit without Laurel.

 

 

I think it showed that the dynamic IMPROVED without Laurel, as everyone was able to bounce off each other with no one left out. I think OTA plus Thea might work as well as OTA.

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bethy

bethy

(edited)

Last night, the only thing that kept the ridiculousness of all the legal scenes from driving me over the edge into Laurel-hate-rage was knowing the woman is going to be gone soon. If she's not in the grave, I don't know what I'm going to do.

Edited by bethy
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I really doubt they're gonna play up Oliver/Laurel moments. Laurel moments WILL get played up, just as Roy's were to set up his own departure. Will those include Oliver? I'm sure. But I don't think they will be O/L moments per se. Just as I don't think anything regarding Laurel played a part in the Olicity breakup. I highly doubt the EPs even considered her when crafting the breakup. The breakup is part of textbook TV romance.

I don't think Laurel had anything to do with the break up but I do think there's a good chance they might take advantage of the split to tease at least the future possibility of Lauriver (and remember, Oliver not letting Laurel splat on the pavement when she jumped off a building was seen as a Lauriver moment so it doesn't take much) because that would make her death seem even more shocking.

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

(edited)

Last night, the only thing that kept the ridiculousness of all the legal scenes from driving me over the edge into Laurel-hate-rage was knowing the woman is going to be gone soon. If she's not in the grave, I don't know what I'm going to do.

Like, she literally charged the wrong crime. She charged the unprovable kidnapping with the missing kidnappee, NOT the very public kidnapping/attempted murder of three people, two of whom are extremely prominent and, at least re Felicity, likely beloved, city residents. (Oh, and the publicly murdered guards.) Laurel's a MORON.

Edited by AyChihuahua
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bijoux

bijoux

So I imagine that "I thought of you" line is coming after Oliver's annual near death experience. It's funny how Felicity is the one targetted, yet he seems to be in more imminent peril. 

 

That assy board member looks to be there when something blows up. Good.

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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

I don't think Laurel had anything to do with the break up but I do think there's a good chance they might take advantage of the split to tease at least the future possibility of Lauriver (and remember, Oliver not letting Laurel splat on the pavement when she jumped off a building was seen as a Lauriver moment so it doesn't take much) because that would make her death seem even more shocking.

Fans of Oliver and Laurel or those who believe Because Comics, will see any scene between Oliver and Laurel as ground work to them getting back together. Esp if you add in the Olicity break-up.

 

But I seriously doubt the show is going to have any type of ship tease scene. I'm sure that Oliver and Laurel will have a moment that highlights their friendship, just like I'm sure every character will have that with Laurel before she bits the dust.

 

That scene of Oliver telling Laurel about failing to save his relationship, I'm pretty confident Laurel is going to say something like 'Felicity is it for you, you got to fight for her.' Oliver saves Laurel from the bee sting and it looks like Laurel may save his with the Collar. I'm sure it leads to a nice scene between the two and maybe a hug. I think it will also lead to Oliver reaffirming his love for Felicity, maybe lead him to fight for her.

Edited by Chaser
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Guest

Guest

LMAO that gif is precious. Cisco is awesome. Haha.

 

Question: are there Lance flashbacks in 418 and 419? And by Lance I mean either Laurel or Quentin.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Question: are there Lance flashbacks in 418 and 419? And by Lance I mean either Laurel or Quentin.

 

Paul B posted a pic wearing his flashback wig while they were filming 418. Then we have the pap pics of Laurel filming the flashback funeral [Tommy's? Sara's?] in 419, and Paul B in and out of the wig. So it's unclear.

 

Maybe Paul B was just having a wig fitting when he posted the pic? Maybe they filmed some of his 419 scenes earlier? Or maybe there are flashbacks 2 episodes in a row.

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Hipkarma

Hipkarma

(edited)

LOVE that gif!  There is a bottle of French champagne already chilling here for when the happy death event arrives. 

 

ETA: re the Flashbacks, I suspect they may have filmed 2 episodes worth or at least additional scenes while Alex Kingston was available just to make the best use of Dinah.

Edited by Hipkarma
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ArrowFan

ArrowFan

In NY, the person gets indicted through a grand jury proceeding. In which ALL EVIDENCE is let in. So that means hearsay, letters from drug addicts, WHATEVER. Then a JURY decides whether to indict. If indicted, the defendant has the option of going to trial. This is a very stripped down version, but in general, I have no idea wtf was going in the Star City legal system there.

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Guest

Guest

Hmm. I think there will be Lance flashbacks in 418 for sure (Moira had flashbacks when she died) but I feel like we'll jump back to Oliver flashbacks in 419, but they just won't be set on the island. Maybe we'll see him flashing back to Tommy's funeral? I don't know, I just don't know if they'd do 2 episodes worth of Lance flashbacks in a row.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

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They're not leaked promo photos are supposed to come out a week before the episode. It's just that lately the CW Promo dept sucks.

Why is Thea injured again? Love that we get actual Thea/Felicity scenes and cant wait to see Felicity take Brie out. Although, I'll also accept Felicity taking out Robot guy while Donna punches Brie out.

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jay741982

jay741982

They're not leaked promo photos are supposed to come out a week before the episode. It's just that lately the CW Promo dept sucks.

Why is Thea injured again? Love that we get actual Thea/Felicity scenes and cant wait to see Felicity take Brie out. Although, I'll also accept Felicity taking out Robot guy while Donna punches Brie out.

I want Felicity vs Beth..I mean Brie! It's her Nemesis!!

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ArrowFan

ArrowFan

My predictions for the rest of this season:

 

4x17

- Curtis is let in on the secret

- Felicity starts working towards her "new goal"

- Laurel saves Oliver by killing the bees in his body ("Laurel is a hero" is driven home)

 

4x18

- Felicity and Curtis have a heart to heart about marriage

- Lance flashbacks, possibly!

- Laurel makes the ultimate sacrifice, dies a hero's death (at the VERY end of the episode)

- while Lauriver fans may interpret the greater focus on Laurel as a greater focus on Lauriver, it's really and honestly just a bigger focus on LAUREL HERSELF. Because she is going to be painted in the best possible light.

 

4x19

- will stress the funerals and the consequences

- Lance flashbacks

- angry ANGRY Felicity (it seems Felicity is the one in the darkness this time)

 

4x20 - 4x23

- At some point, some situation emerges where Oliver's first instinct will be to go at something alone, but he will finally confide in Felicity.

- With Felicity in the darkness, it will be up to Oliver to bring her back out into the light.

- By the end of 4x23, they are back together!

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SleepDeprived

SleepDeprived

Dude with the helmet in promo pics...same kind of thing that was in flash comics w bri?

 

It amuses me greatly that it looks like the Wardrobe/Costume Dept. re-purposed Geomancer's (earthquake dude on The Flash) costume into Brie's cohort/dude in the helmet's outfit. They just made the "pecs and abs" areas a little shinier and gold-ish looking than the gray tones of Geomancer's costume plus added in those bee-hive-looking things on the sides of the suit. Nice effort, guys. Save on that budget as much as you can.

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Chaser

Chaser

The thumb drive that Felicity went back to the lair for, does anyone think it could be the only her father gave her?

I can't remember what her father said it was or what happened to it.

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kismet

kismet

People can call me very petty but I'd very much like For the loss of Laurel to not be the reason Felicity goes Dark. Hell I don't want her going Dark at all.

I don't mind is she goes dark in a another season, especially if its under the influence of something or someone. But too much has happened to FS this season, going dark is just too much I think for me.

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ComicFan777

ComicFan777

(edited)

The thumb drive that Felicity went back to the lair for, does anyone think it could be the only her father gave her?

I can't remember what her father said it was or what happened to it.

 

I think her dad wanted to show her that he wasn't such a bad guy (just a hacktivist) by giving her a drive containing selected hacks that he has done in the past.  I wouldn't think the drive her dad gave her would really be something she would grab before she leaves the team. 

 

My guess is the drive in 4x16 has info for her new project.

 

Edited by ComicFan777
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lemotomato

lemotomato

I'm trying to figure out the timeline of the episode. Felicity, her mom, and Thea are presumably at PT during the bee attack. Oliver gets stung when he and the team show up to fight. The team minus Thea go back to the lair with Curtis in tow. Oliver fights for his life (per SA's tweet); Laurel's Canary Cry disables the bees in him. Oliver then recovers quickly enough to put his suit back on, chat with Curtis, and head back to PT to fight Queen Bee and her robot minion? I wonder where Mama Smoak went because it doesn't look like she's in the office with Felicity and Thea. Rescued during the initial attack along with Curtis? 

 

I think I'll be watching parts of this episode through my fingers. Bees exploding out of people? ::shudder::

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