Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Starfish35]

I have no clue what the heart to heart with Curtis could be about.

Maybe he feels guilty that she is targeted in 4x17?

My guess is that he finds out about Oliver being Green Arrow in 417, so maybe a follow up conversation on that?

[Velocity23]

AK is taking a twitter break. Hmmm

https://twitter.com/AJKreisberg/status/710547866234675200

[jay741982]

Preparing for the shirt storm coming after Laurel dies Maybe?

[statsgirl]

Maybe Curtis is worried for his husband's safety seeing what happened to Felicity, now that he's a part of Team Green Arrow.  Or maybe he's just worried about joining it at all.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe Curtis's husband is DEAD.

 

[FurryFury]

And in the grave. With Laurel.

[catrox14]

Maybe Curtis's husband is DEAD.

 

 

 

Oh. Gods. I actually think that's possible and maybe that is what compels him to become Mr. Terrific....

[Guest]

Laurel's probably gonna be offered a promotion after putting DD in prison OR maybe it's from DD's wife? She could still have a lot of the city leaders on HIVE's side.

 

Felicity and Curtis will probably talk about vigilante life, maybe even start the discussion on what to do with the chip in her spine and how it could help others?

Edited March 17, 2016 by Guest

[Starfish35]

Maybe they talk about Curtis keeping the secret from his husband?

They may still kill off his husband, but I'd be a little surprised if they did it so close to the death in 418.

[calliope1975]

Perhaps it's really Paul's funeral we've been seeing. All those dudes there are former PT clients paying their respects. It's all one big troll. 

 

I need some sleep. 

[Starfish35]

Lol. :)

[statsgirl]

Yeah, killing off a minor character would still deflect from the big death in 418.

 

I think Felicity and Curtis should talk about what to do with his chip since Bree Larson wanted to steal it in that episode but a heart-to-heart sounds more emotional than corporate.

[BkWurm1]

There is a small Facebook community about if BC is killed off-boycott. I'm sure you all want to join ;) The Canary groups I follow are still in denial or love Sara on LOT and now wish she was named Dinah.

https://facebook.com/blackcanarylives/?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_reply

 

So far it has 61 likes!

AK is taking a twitter break. Hmmm

https://twitter.com/AJKreisberg/status/710547866234675200

His tweet: Taking a Twitter break.  Like the First Doctor once said to Susan, "One day I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back..."

 

Just an FYI, the Doctor never came back. Not yet at least.

[bijoux]

 

ETA: The trailer for 4x16 isn't promising.

I appreciate Cupid's dedication to keeping to her theme by arranging couple in a heart shape. I am also vindicated by the fact that she kind of looks down on GA. The Arrow was edgier and definitely more her type.

[Chaser]

She likes the suit. I can't take her seriously.

[jay741982]

Yeah, killing off a minor character would still deflect from the big death in 418.

 

I think Felicity and Curtis should talk about what to do with his chip since Bree Larson wanted to steal it in that episode but a heart-to-heart sounds more emotional than corporate.

LOL I hate to nitpick but it's Brie Larvan! You say Bree Larson and it sounds like the Oscar winning Actress LOL

[Guest]

I just realized Keto co-wrote 418...an episode where Felicity has a heart to heart with Curtis and I just hate how she writes Felicity. Ugh. Not looking forward to that tbh.

 

WHERE ARE THE PROMO PICS, CW? QUIT PLAYING. 

[kismet]

I just realized Keto co-wrote 418...an episode where Felicity has a heart to heart with Curtis and I just hate how she writes Felicity. Ugh. Not looking forward to that tbh.

 

WHERE ARE THE PROMO PICS, CW? QUIT PLAYING. 

I generally dislike how Keto writes FS. But for me I am thinking more about the last minutes of 418 and I feel like Keto deserves the opportunity to write those moments for LL. So a poorly written heart to heart is not too high of a price to pay for me in the long run.

[Chaser]

Maybe MG wrote the Felicity scenes. I would prefer that.

[lemotomato]

I would prefer Felicity's screentime to be really limited in 418. If only to head off complaints that "OMG, even Laurel's death episode had to be all about Felicity". I don't want her anywhere near Laurel when she bites it.

[Guest]

I generally dislike how Keto writes FS. But for me I am thinking more about the last minutes of 418 and I feel like Keto deserves the opportunity to write those moments for LL. So a poorly written heart to heart is not too high of a price to pay for me in the long run.

 

Eh. I have no issue with her writing Laurel. It's clearly who she prefers to write for. I just don't like the way she writes Felicity and that's still gonna be an issue for me regardless of this being the death episode.

 

I would prefer Felicity's screentime to be really limited in 418. If only to head off complaints that "OMG, even Laurel's death episode had to be all about Felicity". I don't want her anywhere near Laurel when she bites it.

 

THIS. She doesn't need extra hate, bless her. Keep her away.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

Does this mean they're filming out of order again or is he up there super early for filming? They should have started 421 today, not 422.

[Guest]

Maybe he's just there for prep. 

[Carrie Ann]

Oh yay! Glen Winter is great.

[Morrigan2575]

Maybe he's just there for prep.

Someone else siad the same thing. Haven't seen a director go up there this early for prep. Of course it's totally possible they all go up there this early we just aren't notfied about it.

[foreverevolving]

Someone else siad the same thing. Haven't seen a director go up there this early for prep. Of course it's totally possible they all go up there this early we just aren't notfied about it.

Didn't SA once said, after being asked if he will direct an Arrow episode someday, that it takes about 3 weeks of prep for a director before the episode starts to shoot?

[Sunshine]

I have no clue what the heart to heart with Curtis could be about.

 

Maybe he feels guilty that she is targeted in 4x17?

Since Curtis is in on the superhero secret after 4.17, the heart to heart might be about what her new mission is.  It's brought about by her being shot and in a wheelchair.  Perhaps it's strengthened by Oliver once again fighting for his life in 4.17.  Assuming it's technology related who better to talk about it to then another technology nerd?  Since honoring the person in the grave prompts it also (yes, I know the death happens in this episode) perhaps it's some sort of technology/communications/information system to help keep these mortal heroes safe?  

[statsgirl]

SA may have meant 3 weeks from starting to think about it but usually it's only one week on site.

 

Yay for Glen Winter coming back.  He's an excellent director.

 

 

LOL I hate to nitpick but it's Brie Larvan! You say Bree Larson and it sounds like the Oscar winning Actress LOL

Oops, I have Room on the brain.  (It just won a bunch of SAG awards last Sunday.)

Edited March 18, 2016 by statsgirl

[foreverevolving]

Since Curtis is in on the superhero secret after 4.17, the heart to heart might be about what her new mission is.  It's brought about by her being shot and in a wheelchair.  Perhaps it's strengthened by Oliver once again fighting for his life in 4.17.  Assuming it's technology related who better to talk about it to then another technology nerd?  Since honoring the person in the grave prompts it also (yes, I know the death happens in this episode) perhaps it's some sort of technology/communications/information system to help keep these mortal heroes safe?  

The only thing I could think of was: GASP creating the Justice League! League ring (or other device)..

I mean I know that's not what you meant, and I doubt it will happen but. it was my first thought.

[Guest]

Since Curtis is in on the superhero secret after 4.17, the heart to heart might be about what her new mission is.  It's brought about by her being shot and in a wheelchair.  Perhaps it's strengthened by Oliver once again fighting for his life in 4.17.  Assuming it's technology related who better to talk about it to then another technology nerd?  Since honoring the person in the grave prompts it also (yes, I know the death happens in this episode) perhaps it's some sort of technology/communications/information system to help keep these mortal heroes safe?  

 

I would love it if this was the start of Felicity maybe creating her own tech, or just thinking about it? I've always wondered why she didn't.

[BkWurm1]

Curtis is an unpredictable voice. I could see him being used to talk to her about just about anything.

Heart to heart implies something more personal than just tech ideas. He is in a happy marriage. Maybe Curtis will be to her what Diggle has been to Oliver? Personally though I'd prefer Felicity giving the advice and insight about the pros and cons of the life rather than Curtis manspaining her feelings re Oliver, but keeping expectations low.

[dtissagirl]

Directing takes 3 to 4 weeks, depending on how the 8 shooting days are divided. Sometimes location scouting happens before the prep week, if they need some super special location. But usually: one week of prep, 8 days of shooting, and then about another week down in LA for editing.

[Sunshine]

Curtis is an unpredictable voice. I could see him being used to talk to her about just about anything.

Heart to heart implies something more personal than just tech ideas. He is in a happy marriage. Maybe Curtis will be to her what Diggle has been to Oliver? Personally though I'd prefer Felicity giving the advice and insight about the pros and cons of the life rather than Curtis manspaining her feelings re Oliver, but keeping expectations low.

The pros and cons of the life was my 2nd thought.  I never considered Curtis being her Diggle but it makes sense.  I just assumed that was MamaSmoak's role but she may be all about supporting Quentin in 4.19+. 

[Kymmi]

 

Oops, I have Room on the brain.  (I just won a bunch of SAG awards last Sunday.)

 

You won a bunch of SAG awards?  Congrats!  ;-)  

 

I kid, I kid ...

[EmeraldArcher]

I've been thinking about the possible parallels between Oliver/#Poppy and Oliver/Felicity and think that it could be related to which one encourages him to embrace the darkness and his response. In the first promo for 4x16, Oliver says that Felicity believes that they can save the city and not give in to the darkness, but he doesn't think that's possible. Furthermore, in the FF, Felicity tells Oliver to kill "him." Felicity has always been a "do whatever it takes" kind of girl, but even when she said that line in S2, she also said "Stop Slade," not kill him.

Similarly, #Poppy told FB Oliver to do something related to darkness? Be a monster? Ugh, I never listen to her, but the gist was that she wanted him to be a bad, bad man and do bad, bad stuff to the bad guys. I can't remember if he killed the bearded, crazy-eyed guard after that or not, but I think she encouraged him to kill and he did. We have yet to zone out/ignore what happens next, but we can expect him to get mired in the darkness soon, right? And, we know that #Poppy dies anyway, right?

What if, in a swerve, this parallel isn't about saving Oliver, but saving Felicity and bringing her back from the brink of darkness? In his first proposal, Oliver said that "she is the one who lights his way," and Felicity has always been his moral compass. She is light and love and strength. The recent promo again draws attention to Felicity refusing to succumb to the darkness that their lifestyle forces them to confront. But, in the limo, she is ready to use Oliver as a weapon and encourages him to kill, just like #Poppy did.

Many have expressed hope that Oliver will fight for Felicity in terms of their relationship. But, maybe he also restores her hope and renews her light by choosing the path she has always lit for him, even when she's tempted by the darkness? It doesn't even have to be high drama, just Oliver giving her the pep talk so she doesn't abandon her principles in a desire for vengeance. We've already seen Felicity confront her darkest self, Goth!Felicity, who was angry, bitter, and a little cruel--so we know she's capable of it.

In my scenario, #Olivoppy* never even have to be romantically involved, just two people facing a crossroads together and taking the darker route.

Also--whew! I've been trying to catch up with this thread since returning from Asia, but there were 20 pages, and you all added more everyday! I've been waving my arms and yelling "Wait for me" as I've choked on your dust!

*deliciously awkward, eh?

[statsgirl]

Would the show consider Felicity important enough to be the person being saved from The Dark Side?

 

Laura Hurley makes a good point about how the death might be handled:

I also think that a lot depends on how the death in handled. Whoever dies, I hope he/she gets a better death than Sara or Shado or even Moira to a certain extent. It’s no secret that I’m not Laurel’s biggest fan, but I’m tired of women being executed rather than killed in action.

 

Would having a hero death make up for killing another female character?

Edited March 18, 2016 by statsgirl

[catrox14]

I just can't get on board with Laurel getting a hero's death SOLELY because other females who rightfully deserved them, didn't get them.

That doesn't make it better, it just makes me even more resentful of how Sara died.

[EmeraldArcher]

Would the show consider Felicity important enough to be the person being saved from The Dark Side?

I would hope so, but I'm curious about your phrasing "important enough." What type of importance are you referring to? Felicity isn't a minor character, and she isn't as morally ambiguous as Moira was or as bratty as Thea can still be. Felicity is Oliver's light--I think the show has made that clear. I think she would be the one the most contrast between darkness/light because she serves as a type of moral compass.

MG often comments about how Oliver does stupid things, and some (including myself and Laura Hurley) have questioned Oliver's hero status because of his recent regressions. But, nobody ever seems to talk about Felicity's lapses or being on the brink of the dark side. We all just take it for granted that she's Good with a capital G. Felicity being on the brink of darkness would be out of character for her and cause a crisis for Oliver. He wants so badly to stay in the light, but what happens when the person who encourages him is at risk of faltering herself? It still circles back to Oliver's journey, but showcases his growth instead of him yet again grappling with remaining in the light when the overwhelming darkness beckons.

I don't know if I even addressed what you meant by her being important enough--can you please clarify? :-)

[ComicFan777]

I think Poppy said something to the effect of "to beat a monster, you must become a monster."

 

I wouldn't necessarily think that Felicity is succumbing to darkness or losing her light because she thinks it is ok that someone is killed.  She asked Oliver to kill Ra's before and it was never construed as she is becoming dark!Felicity because of it.  I get the impression that the writers like to paint the characters as being morally grey as a good thing like Lyla.

 

I think that if vengeance drives her to want to kill, then I suppose you could say she might be going dark, but then again it can be a very fine line between vengeance and what is the right thing to do for a given circumstance.  Say in the case of Malcolm Merlyn, he has killed so many people already and may kill thousands more if left alive.  He probably will end up killing a Team Arrow member.  To keep the city safe and the team safe, it seems completely justified to want him dead.

 

I think SA had mentioned at the HVFF that Oliver learns that the no killing rule doesn't really work and always killing (like when he was the Hood) doesn't work either - what will work might be a medley of the two - so sometimes you have to be bold enough to kill when necessary.  It doesn't sound like they will shape the Green Arrow as a hero that never kills, but rather, one that will kill when necessary to keep the city safe.  Oliver never really strictly stuck to the no kill rule before...maybe the difference would be that you can kill when necessary (if the justice system fails), but not be consumed by the darkness as a result of it.  I would have thought that they might play the find another way route without killing, but I don't know if that is the case from what SA said, but maybe I misunderstood him.

Edited March 18, 2016 by ComicFan777

[tv echo]

-- At HVFF-Chicago (on Mar. 12), fan asked if we're going to see Oliver going back towards the darkness now that he's lost both Felicity and his son (sent him away). SA: "I think that if we're talking about a five-year journey, we're talking about Oliver being very, very,  you know, lethal and dark in the first season and then, you know, building towards, you know - that didn't work. And the method where he just, you know, 'I'm not going to kill anyone regardless, it doesn't matter, I've got to strive for something different', that doesn't seem to have worked either. So maybe in Season 5, we can see the medley of the two, because, um, you know, he has people in his life that, um, in the latter parts of this season, really push him towards a place he really didn't think they'd be comfortable with him going. And we see some of his, um, some of his teammates and friends going to places where he never expected that they would. So I think we're going to see, hopefully, more of the finished product of Oliver in Season 5 that he can use going forward. The two extremes don't seem to work." (Video of SA solo panel at HVFF-Chicago 2016, page 343 of Social Media thread)

Maybe not just Oliver but also Felicity and the rest of TGA learn that, in order to continue fighting crime in Star City effectively, sometimes they have to kill and the rest of the time they don't.

 

Regarding Felicity succumbing to the darkness, wasn't Felicity's back story partly about her not succumbing to the darkness? Not becoming an evil hacktivist like Cooper?  In the Hallucination Felicity episode, she said that she used to be that angry Goth girl (probably due to abandonment issues) but not any more.

 

ETA: IMDB is now listing a one-week break after 419 and a one-week break after 422.

Edited March 18, 2016 by tv echo

[nksarmi]

The deaths I have the most issue with are Sara and Shado.  Moira died in a heroic act even if she wasn't "in action."  Tommy died a hero as well.  But Sara and Shado who were both capable badasses died by being assassinated.  Sara has been brought back and I guess that's the best "apology" they could give us, but I'd hate to see Laurel go out in a bad way.  I don't entirely care what's true to her character - I just want her to go out well.  Saving Thea would be my top pick as it really does have all sorts of symbolism tied into it and could give us some really meaty material with Thea and Malcolm if the writers are willing to go there.

[bijoux]

ETA: IMDB is now listing a one-week break after 419 and a one-week break after 422.

 

The latter part just seems crazy.

[nksarmi]

Maybe not just Oliver but also Felicity and the rest of TGA learn that, in order to continue fighting crime in Star City effectively, sometimes they have to kill and the rest of the time they don't.

 

Regarding Felicity succumbing to the darkness, wasn't Felicity's back story partly about her not succumbing to the darkness? Not becoming an evil hacktivist like Cooper?  In the Hallucination Felicity episode, she said that she used to be that angry Goth girl (probably due to abandonment issues) but not any more.

 

ETA: IMDB is now listing a one-week break after 419 and a one-week break after 422.

 

Ew.  A break between 22 and 23 would suck.  I'd rather have two weeks after 19 and then get 20-23 straight.  Oh well.

 

I'd love it if this show abandoned it's "we shall not kill under any circumstances" playbook because 1) It's not believable that no one has ever died from one of Diggle's bullets or bled out from one of Oliver's arrow wounds so they are asking me to stretch the limits of my ability to suspend disbelief and 2) It's truly ridiculous that a character like Malcolm is still alive and they people on this show went to extreme measures to keep him that way and 3) To believe that they never need to kill in self-defense is also ridiculous.

[apinknightmare]

The latter part just seems crazy.

 

Yeah, that has to be wrong, doesn't it? Why would they take a break a) at that point in the season, and b) during sweeps?

[looptab]

It would be better having a two consecutive weeks break, after 318 or 319 it'd make sense the most, rather than breaking the momentum of the final 4/3 episodes.

ETA: Or what @nksarmi said :)

Edited March 18, 2016 by looptab

[Morrigan2575]

IMDb is fan edited, I wouldn't assume those scheduling dates are right until we actually get a schedule from The CW.  

 

I do think there will be a break after 419 but, I don't think they're going to take a week off between 422 and 423.  That seems a bit ridiculous since it's in the middle of Sweeps.

 

I actually expect a 2 week break after 419, putting 420-423 in May Sweeps and getting 4 out of 5 Wednesdays in Sweeps.

 

ETA: Not sure why I said 4 out of 5 weeks, I meant 4 out of 4 weeks in sweeps...maybe i was thinking of 4 out of 5 doctors :-)

Edited March 18, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[calliope1975]

Curtis is an unpredictable voice. I could see him being used to talk to her about just about anything.

Heart to heart implies something more personal than just tech ideas. He is in a happy marriage. Maybe Curtis will be to her what Diggle has been to Oliver? Personally though I'd prefer Felicity giving the advice and insight about the pros and cons of the life rather than Curtis manspaining her feelings re Oliver, but keeping expectations low.

 

I can see this happening. Also, Curtis is probably a practicing couples' therapist as another hobby. Or maybe he wrote a book on forgiving your boyfriend who consistently has poor decision making skills. (I kid - I love Curtis!)

[apinknightmare]

Also, Curtis is probably a practicing couples' therapist as another hobby.

 

I can imagine Felicity turning to Curtis and saying, "So, you're a certified family counselor, right?" 

[ComicFan777]

I'm pretty sure the "him" is Malcolm, but what would have been crazy cool and shocking to me is if the "him" turned out to be Slade randomly breaking out of the supermax and killing LL.  Felicity had told Oliver not to kill Slade in the first place, and then he ends up killing LL, so Felicity would be angry about it.  Supermax couldn't hold him, so the only option is to kill him.  I know Deathstroke isn't coming back this season because of some other DC project, but it would have been a surprising twist to me.  Slade was always my favorite villain in Arrow - I would have gladly accepted Slade as the recurring supervillain instead of Malcolm.

[looptab]

See, my mind instead went the opposite direction and I thought they'd likely have Felicity tell Curtis how he has to lie lie LIE to his husband, and then, ta-dah, that realization would bring her closer to forgive Oliver. Hope they don't take that route.

 

Don't sweeps start on 4/28?

Edited March 18, 2016 by looptab