Spoiler Discussion Thread

[wonderwall]

I'm trying to shield you from the pain of crushing disappointment! Let me help you! LOL.

 

Seriously though, I really don't know what to believe anymore. You know what I think but I can't deny how it looks either.

 

Shhhhhhhhhhhh let me help you envelope yourself in the warm embrace of optimism.

 

:p

[Guest]

Didn't the producers rule out an AU cheat like this early on in interviews?

 

I'm pretty sure they just said that this death 'will stick' but that doesn't rule out any Earth 2 appearances. I doubt that would be many though. They have enough characters on The Flash as it is.

 

Shhhhhhhhhhhh let me help you envelope yourself in the warm embrace of optimism.

 

:p

 

I can't! I can't! Leave me in the cold!

Edited March 1, 2016 by Guest

[BkWurm1]

I'm trying to shield you from the pain of crushing disappointment! Let me help you! LOL.

 

Seriously though, I really don't know what to believe anymore. You know what I think but I can't deny how it looks either.

I found myself tossing and turning last night, pondering the clues and them all re-adding up to the same conclusion but imagining the awful, awful feeling I would feel if there was somehow a last second swerve.  I both believe and feel like it's a trap.

[wonderwall]

I can't! I can't! Leave me in the cold!

 

Are you sureeeeee??? 

 

 

#PerfectGIF

Edited March 1, 2016 by wonderwall

[SonofaBiscuit]

I'm still convinced it's Laurel, but here's something else to add to the large pile of weird.  Three days after KC tweeted "Sometimes when things are falling apart they may actually be falling into place," Geoff Johns (Chief Creative Officer at DC) tweeted her "I love you."  Feeling bad about her being let go, maybe?

 

ETA:  Ha!  Never mind.  As pointed out below, this tweet is from 2015 (not 2016).  Oh well, I tried.

Edited March 1, 2016 by SonofaBiscuit

[Guest]

I found myself tossing and turning last night, pondering the clues and them all re-adding up to the same conclusion but imagining the awful, awful feeling I would feel if there was somehow a last second swerve.  I both believe and feel like it's a trap.

 

About me, although I'm still unconvinced so...LOL. I need that gif of Leslie Knope saying 'I know this is a trap but I don't know how.' LMAO. TRUST NO ONE.

 

Please let it be noted that I will be very happy to be wrong. :D

 

 

Are you sureeeeee??? 

 

 

#PerfectGIF

 

Stop trying to blackmail me! Cute shoulder-chin nuzzles won't work! I'm immune! *runs away*

[Chaser]

She is over there selling Dunkin Donuts and re-following her Hollywood Producer Ex on social media and people still think she has a job?

[Morrigan2575]

This is getting a wee bit ridiculous. So i'm just going to let John Cleese explain Laurel Lance in 4.19

[wonderwall]

Stop trying to blackmail me! Cute shoulder-chin nuzzles won't work! I'm immune! *runs away*

 

Okay so you're not ready to admit it yet. BUT I WILL BE HERE WHEN YOU ARE :')

 

This is getting a wee bit ridiculous. So i'm just going to let John Cleese explain Laurel Lance in 4.19

 

OH. MY. GOD LMFAO. You win today @Morrigan2575 

[Guest]

LMAO. Uh...okay. 

Edited March 1, 2016 by Guest

[calliope1975]

I feel like I've been to that theater in that picture. Was that pic taken at the Sutton Place Hotel? /randomobservation

Edited March 1, 2016 by calliope1975

[Chaser]

I saw a screenshot of a fans IG pic with SA. She said he was fighting with a blonde in a black suit. She said it was a new character.

4x19's villain?

[catrox14]

Just a thought but....everyone questions why Oliver didn't know to be on the look out after Malcolm threatened.  What if the Malcolm v Oliver fight was staged by the two and the hand was a ruse, all to get the lotus.  When Nyssa destroyed the ring, Malcolm didn't get what he expected to get from the deal with Oliver.  Oliver assumes all is fine between them, but Malcolm sees it differently and goes to Darhk to get the power he lost from the LOA disbanding.  So Oliver goes on with no reason to think Malcolm is hostile to him, until the report that the man who kidnapped William had one hand.  This allows Malcolm to still have a hand and explains why Oliver was so clueless about a threat pending for his son.

 

Oh wow....I never thought of that but ....that is not all that far out there. hmmmm Interesting.

[Ann Mack]

Isn't it sort of late to be introducing new characters when they haven't flushed out the ones they have or explained what it is the "big bad" is trying to do this season? My god this show tries to do too much and still never ever does enough, SMDH!!

[wonderwall]

Isn't it sort of late to be introducing new characters when they haven't flushed out the ones they have or explained what it is the "big bad" is trying to do this season? My god this show tries to do too much and still never ever does enough, SMDH!!

 

Or it could be a VotW that's tied to Damien *shrugs*

[nksarmi]

I'm feeling pretty ok if Laurel is dead.  I would prefer DD was the one to do it - even if it's because Malcolm broke him out of jail, but whatever.  I would pay money to see someone kill Malcolm for good by season end and if offing Laurel is what brings it about - well ok then.

 

I really hope the "new girl" in the picture is absolutely no one.  Not Talia, not Malcolm's daughter, just some random person who maybe has info that the team needs to hear and who will be gone in a couple of episodes.  Seriously - I am TIRED of secret relationships/relations.

 

I also want the reward of killing Laurel - besides hopefully Malcolm's death - be a show where the characters I like interact and form a cohesive unit and plots start making sense again. Ok the last one probably won't happen, but a girl can hope.

[Chaser]

I don't think by new character she meant recurring or regular, I just think she meant a character we haven't seen before.

I found the account. She said she looked like a bad guy. Someone asked about the suit, if it was more LOA or Black Canary/Canary. She said more Black Canary.

[wonderwall]

I really hope that this will happen (which means it probably won't): 

 

Oliver will almost kill Malcolm but make a last minute change in mind and send him to maximum maximum security prison like Slade except more security than that... And at the very end we see Nyssa break into the prison and kill him (because she can, dammit!)

 

Not only would this make Oliver be consistent with his no kill rule, but it also means Nyssa kills Malcolm once and for all.

[ComicFan777]

Right now, I am just hoping that Felicity isn't on Palmer Island for the the rest of the season with her new goal thing she talked about, while they introduce new characters.  I hope that she does interact with Oliver more in hopes that they can at least become close friends again this season.

[Guest]

Is 419 too late to still have a villain of the week? I feel like it might be. We're building up to the end of the season now. 

[Chaser]

Maybe she is a HIVE super agent

[way2interested]

Is 419 too late to still have a villain of the week? I feel like it might be. We're building up to the end of the season now. 

319 had a villain of the week, and was actually a pretty good episode. Then again, consequently 321-323 was too rushed with the plot at the end, so I guess it's a flip of the coin.

[lemotomato]

319 had a villain of the week. I think it makes sense to have a one-off villain in an episode where the characters have to spend time dealing with a lot of emotional fallout. 

[Guest]

319 had a villain of the week, and was actually a pretty good episode. Then again, consequently 321-323 was too rushed with the plot at the end, so I guess it's a flip of the coin.

 

Good point. I'd forgotten that but it was s3 so it's hardly surprising. LOL.

 

I just figured as this was the episode with the funeral and emotional repercussions of the death, a VOTW might be too much. I don't know.

[foreverevolving]

I was thinking.. do you think it's possible that they are killing Laurel because they have a small fear that if the CW negotiations fail and the network is dead they won't be renewed next year, so they are speeding up the plan of killing her? (meaning they had planned on killing her in the final season, but have decided to do so this year just in case they won't be coming back next year cause the CW got tanked)...

Edited March 1, 2016 by foreverevolving

[way2interested]

I think it makes sense to have a one-off villain in an episode where the characters have to spend time dealing with a lot of emotional fallout. 

Agree. Maybe the VOTW masquerades as the Black Canary and commits crimes after Laurel's death, since it would seem that the Black Canary is gone, and then the team has to take her out?  Kind of like what the next Flash episode seems to be about. Meanwhile the team have to take care of this while trying to start their revenge hit against probably Malcolm while dealing with grief?

[ComicFan777]

I think Alex is might be in 4.19, too - do you think it is for Thea or campaign-related?

[jay741982]

If the "Him" is Malcolm I'm hoping Oliver Felicity Diggle Lance(Or Laurel) and Thea all get some hits on him!

[Guest]

I think Alex is might be in 4.19, too - do you think it is for Thea or campaign-related?

 

It could be either. I thought there was spoilers about SA, WH and KC all filming something mayoral-related last week (and then KC and PB filmed in a cafe or something). So it's possible that Oliver is back in the running for Mayor? I don't know how these things work.

[AyChihuahua]

I just figured as this was the episode with the funeral and emotional repercussions of the death, a VOTW might be too much. I don't know.

They had Anarky, who was/is basically a VoTW, in the post-shooting episode when they SHOULD have been focusing on Oliver and Felicity. I didn't watch, but from what I've heard it was a mistake, but the writers seem to think any episode that's not actionactionaction is boring. They'd shoot themselves rather than produce anything like The Body.

[Ann Mack]

OMG "The Body" was such a GREAT episode. 

[AyChihuahua]

OMG "The Body" was such a GREAT episode. 

My personal favorite is Hush, but yeah, The Body was a whole episode devoted to dealing with the emotional fallout of a major event. Other than the one quick scene in the morgue, there aren't even any monsters in it. It is pretty widely-considered the best BtVS episode ever, and Guggie would sell his firstborn before producing it. The whole funeral scene w/ flashbacks will probably be five minutes, then it'll be all action. 

[way2interested]

I was thinking.. do you think it's possible that they are killing Laurel because they have a small fear that if the CW negotiations fail and the network is dead they won't be renewed next year, so they are speeding up the plan of killing her? (meaning they had planned on killing her in the final season, but have decided to do so this year just in case they won't be coming back next year cause the CW got tanked)..

Actually, the negotiations might have pushed the Laurel death to this season because they would be worried that the CW wouldn't be coming back. The last few episodes this year might fine tune everything to line the plot up favorably towards fans and critics to make the show worth picking up, somewhat like how the last few episodes of s2 did. The last few s4 episodes might pile on the OTA, Thea coming in action, a big villain fight, Olicity getting back together, etc. to frame Arrow as a more favorable show among fans and critics to make the show a possible sell if CW negotiations fall through. Killing Laurel now would be getting rid of an arguably weak link in the show while reviving stakes to the show to set up a good fifth season (OTA, Olicity, sidekick Thea, possibly dead Malcolm, renewed "stakes" for the characters, possibly set-up villain) for whoever wants to pick it up.

 

Instead of trying to get it out of their systems for a final season, they could be trying to pull out some of their drastic cards to push up the feel of the show for sale, but who really knows why they would choose now to possibly kill off Laurel? 

[Ann Mack]

My personal favorite is Hush, but yeah, The Body was a whole episode devoted to dealing with the emotional fallout of a major event. Other than the one quick scene in the morgue, there aren't even any monsters in it. It is pretty widely-considered the best BtVS episode ever, and Guggie would sell his firstborn before producing it. The whole funeral scene w/ flashbacks will probably be five minutes, then it'll be all action. 

Yeah I think my ALL time top episodes are "Hush", "The Body", and "Once More, With Feeling". BtVS didn't miss the mark too many times with their episodes. My least favorite episode is "Seeing Red". Huh, look at that a bad episode IMO for both BtVS and Arrow with the title "Seeing Red".

Edited March 1, 2016 by Ann Mack

[lemotomato]

I was thinking.. do you think it's possible that they are killing Laurel because they have a small fear that if the CW negotiations fail and the network is dead they won't be renewed next year, so they are speeding up the plan of killing her? (meaning they had planned on killing her in the final season, but have decided to do so this year just in case they won't be coming back next year cause the CW got tanked)...

Isn't KC the highest or second highest paid cast member? They're currently paying her a lead actress salary when she's 4th in screentime. Maybe they're trimming costs to make the show a better sell to other networks if the CW doesn't exist next season.

[Password]

Yeah that was about the only good scene in the whole episode. I also liked Thea and Malcolm but mainly because they're both good actors. I used to actively root for Laurel's death but now I'm thinking she'll be the lucky one if she gets off this suckass show.

Festivus raises a great point. I've been on the Laurel is going to die train since around the beginning of season 4 after I read JBuffyAngel's theory/prediction. I'd be pretty happy if she did die simply because she serves no purpose and her and her family take up valuable episodes that could be dedicated to other characters I actually care about.

But if she died, it wouldn't change a darn thing on the show other than some man pain from various characters (and Sara). Laurel dying wouldn't make up for the fact that the writers liberally make Oliver stupid dumb for plot every season at this exact stage. Except season 1 where I thought things really picked up after Felicity joined.

I really have nothing to look forward to.

[wonderwall]

Apart from Oliver being an idiot and basically sabotaging himself by lying to Felicity, I've enjoyed this season. For me, Laurel's death would probably make up for a lot I've dealt with this season because her death has the potential of having the most positive change in the show which I've stated before but here's a quick overlook:

• Would take away the barrier between the team members which would make them interact more, especially Thea. Because currently she's the ONLY ONE who interacts with everyone outside of Oliver
• Help the fight scenes be more fluid. This show has shown that Bamford can't handle more than 3 people out in the field. 
• Taking out KC (who is presumably the 2nd most highest paid and practically does nothing) would mean more of a budget to spend on other things or other recurring actors
• Give the writers more screen time to focus on other things, developing better emotional beats, or developing the villains more. Like take last weeks episode. If we didn't have to deal with Laurel's reaction we probably would've had a more satisfying breakup between Oliver/Felicity

 

The things I would look forward to are:

• More OTA interactions
• More Diggle focused episodes (because Laurel has a LOT of them so her dedicated episodes have to go to other characters)
• Better fight scenes (because the show has clearly shown that Bamford can't handle more than 3 people out in the field at the same time)
• Oliver/Felicity (because even when one of them acts dumb I still enjoy them immensely and they're a HUGE reason why I'm still watching the show)
• Better developments for Thea

Edited March 1, 2016 by wonderwall

[spartan]

euhhhhhhhhhhhh,anything, laurel lance, could have had the best developments.and being black canary, a nemesis as Lady Shiva? I'm sure WM killed laurel for more olicity, I must say what it is., useless to contradict me, it's my opinion,First they killed canary;and now.kill black canary it's a terrible mistake for the show. I remain hopeful that Laurel lance even dead could return to life in a way he did for Malcolm and Sara

[Password]

If all of the above happened, it would be fantastic. But knowing these writers they'd bring in new characters to fill in the void instead of developing exising characters and relationships.

I'm glass half full about this.

[looptab]

euhhhhhhhhhhhh,

I have to say that's the thing that bothers me more about your post.

[spartan]

I have to say that's the thing that bothers me more about your post.

why? it's an expression, everyone is free to express

[looptab]

That's for sure, I just have an adversion towards repeated letters when the situation doesn't require it.

[bijoux]

Good point. I'd forgotten that but it was s3 so it's hardly surprising. LOL.

 

I just figured as this was the episode with the funeral and emotional repercussions of the death, a VOTW might be too much. I don't know.

It's Arrow. It's never too much.

  

I think Alex is might be in 4.19, too - do you think it is for Thea or campaign-related?

With the set photo related to the mayoral race in 4x18, I think the election might be held then.

[EmilyBettFan]

Lol at killing BC to have more Olicity. Let's not get started on how they killed Sara to make Laurel into Sara. Which never happened because KC can never be like CL.

[Midnight Lullaby]

It seems to me they had no issues having as much Olicity as they wanted with Laurel right there. They have Oliver talk about his relationship with Felicity in front of Laurel as if it shouldn't be embarrassing to talk about it with an ex. Her death wouldn't make space for more Olicity, it would make space to develop other relationships that are being ignored right now more though.

Couldn't the girl in the black gear be "Rebecca"? The pap's bff said the ex SPN girl who is at the funeral isn't playing Rebecca and the new character is supposed to appear in episode 19 and possibly be a recurring.

[Lady Calypso]

So...with that thing about Charlotte Ross being on set today, I'm now convinced it's Laurel. There's no going back from that. The fact that she's on set the day AFTER the funeral scenes were filmed makes all the difference. I mean, it goes into the question of why Donna wasn't at the funeral, especially if she wanted to support her boyfriend with Laurel's death, but if Quentin chose to keep it a small funeral without Donna, that would make so much sense. 

 

I also really, really, really don't want to think that this show would stoop so low as to not allow Donna to be at her boyfriend's funeral. No, not at all.

 

So thanks, Charlotte! Thanks for making me possibly regret jumping fully on board the 'Laurel Lance Is Dead' ship! 

[dtissagirl]

I'm still convinced it's Laurel, but here's something else to add to the large pile of weird.  Three days after KC tweeted "Sometimes when things are falling apart they may actually be falling into place," Geoff Johns (Chief Creative Officer at DC) tweeted her "I love you."  Feeling bad about her being let go, maybe?

 

Look at the date again. :) He posted that on January 2015, in the middle of the Rise o' Buckles trilogy.

[looptab]

So...with that thing about Charlotte Ross being on set today, I'm now convinced it's Laurel. There's no going back from that. The fact that she's on set the day AFTER the funeral scenes were filmed makes all the difference. I mean, it goes into the question of why Donna wasn't at the funeral, especially if she wanted to support her boyfriend with Laurel's death, but if Quentin chose to keep it a small funeral without Donna, that would make so much sense. 

 

I also really, really, really don't want to think that this show would stoop so low as to not allow Donna to be at her boyfriend's funeral. No, not at all.

 

So thanks, Charlotte! Thanks for making me possibly regret jumping fully on board the 'Laurel Lance Is Dead' ship! 

Actually that's the one thing right now that's making me doubt it. why wouldn't she be at Quentin's daughter funeral?

[Lady Calypso]

Actually that's the one thing right now that's making me doubt it. why wouldn't she be at Quentin's daughter funeral?

 

Why wouldn't she be at Quentin's funeral then? I mean, unless they want to have Laurel/Dinah make the choice of keeping the funeral small and making them look like absolute assholes for not having her come. I don't think Donna would miss Quentin's own funeral, unless they've broken up in the episodes preceding it. And if Quentin is the one who has chosen to keep the funeral small between family and close friends for Laurel's funeral, it would be understandable, as Donna and Laurel don't know each other that well for Donna to come to her funeral. She would probably offer her support for the service afterward, instead. 

[Velocity23]

Maybe it will be a funeral with only the people who knew about the secrets. Donna doesnt.