Spoiler Discussion Thread

[spartan]

That will piss me off even more not having these two team up again if they kill off Laurel. Don't give this to me only to take it away so quickly, a 2 min appearance in the animated show won't make me happy.

if laurel is in the grave, I would be very disappointed, There are still in my opinion a lot of stories to tell about laurel black canary, and birds of prey

[kismet]

LOL Laurel is in S2 of Vixen, which based off of MG tweet takes place before 4x15.

It's cool KC/Laurel fans. We are killing off Laurel, but look we animated her!

Please tell me they share jewelry tips :)

[Primal Slayer]

Vixen is part of the Arrowverse canon.  At first all I could think was this proves Laurel's not dead but maybe instead it explains how Laurel and Vixen knew each other since they didn't meet in the Season one Vixen (which took place in season three but aired during Arrow's season four)  So keeping the hope alive!!

I can't wait to see how they "explain" how Diggle and Thea will apparently not know of Vixen in this episode even though another member of TA has met her.

[kismet]

Sadly yes, they recast.  The actress playing Baby Sara moved away. 

Glad it was a forced recast because the actress moved onto bigger things (probably better things, dress up can be really intense these days). Because that girl could give cute, adorable and side-eye sass.

 

No need to dive.  We've all been tossed into it.

was the word dive? I really couldn't hear much over my own laughter at the end of the episode.

[Velocity23]

Nyssa is coming back for LLs funeral! xD

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCMeqhht4OM/

Edited February 25, 2016 by Velocity23

[Starfish35]

Katrina Law is in 419?

[SleepDeprived]

You guys are making it really hard to stay resolute with tamping down my hopes about who will be in that grave. I love it, though. Keep that Laurel-is-in-the-grave train going.

 

 

Is that Oliver on the table, for sure? I kinda don't think that's him. I think Oliver's the guy on the right (the one on the bottom) and Diggle's the one on the left.

 

I saw another shot and I think Lyla is in Felicity's chair. 

 

Could be Lyla but I don't think that's her, either. I think that's Curtis in Felicity's chair.

[Velocity23]

 

Katrina Law is in 419?

Yup. Echo posted it on his snapchat. The snapchat video are only available 24 hours before they are deleted.

[HighHopes]

Someone mentioned it could be Curtis in Felicity's chair, and I wonder if that's not Paul (Curtis' husband) on the table? Especially paired with this tweet:

 

Brian Ford Sullivan:

Glad we got to see more Chenier Hundal as Paul. He's been a great addition to the show. More fun stuff to come with him.

[Starfish35]

Well I guess Nyssa could be in town to console Laurel...... :)

Ok ok, yes it's looking more likely by the moment. I just hate to totally get on board and then end up wrong. :(

[EmeraldArcher]

I blew it up on my iPad, and it looks like Oliver on the table, and Digg and Felicity (?) flanking him. It's very blurry when enlarged, but I think I see ruching on the pant leg, like the GA suit, and a blob of dark where the Bratva tattoo should be.

[jay741982]

There had better be a good believable reason why Felicity isn't there

[apinknightmare]

I wonder who broke into the lair that has Laurel letting out her majestic cry?

[kismet]

It looks like OQ on the table, but its sorta dark. I also can't figure out who the people on either side of the table are. One looks like Dig, but who is the other person and why are they covering their ears?

 

Oh well, I guess all will be revealed in due time.

Do you think Nyssa will bring a milkshake and fries to the grave site? It would be poetic if she did.

[spartan]

I thought Katrina law was in Alaska lol

[apinknightmare]

It looks like OQ on the table, but its sorta dark. I also can't figure out who the people on either side of the table are. One looks like Dig, but who is the other person and why are they covering their ears?

 

I think Laurel's probably doing her canary cry.

[kismet]

I think Laurel's probably doing her canary cry.

The canary cry has medicinal purposes now? It can fix the gravely injured.... Who knew... Curtis should really try to harness that before its too late.

[apinknightmare]

The canary cry has medicinal purposes now? It can fix the gravely injured.... Who knew... Curtis should really try to harness that before its too late.

 

Nah, in other parts of the preview you can see that lights and stuff are exploding - not sure why she's doing it.

[kismet]

Nah, in other parts of the preview you can see that lights and stuff are exploding - not sure why she's doing it.

Don't worry about it nobody probably does including her and the writers :)

[Chaser]

You know, AK and KL could be there for Laurel but by all accounts 4x18 is a very Laurel heavy episode. I can't see them doing two in a row. And I can't see them bringing both back for a cameos. Not for this.

As annoyed as I am over 4x15, I'm feeling more and more confident I have something to look forward too.

[statsgirl]

I'm pretty sure it's Oliver on the table, it's time for the "shirtless Oliver on a gurney" already.  And Diggle at the top, but I can't figure out who is at the bottom.  It looks the size of a man but what man would be down there?

 

Did anyone catch what SA was saying in the promo?  I caught something about it's not fair that can he save the city but he can't save his relationship (crying to Laurel, <eyeroll>) but something "Felicity mumble mumble and not surrender to the darkness and I don't think we can".

 

Also, seriously Oliver?  You could have saved your relationship if you had tried. it's something called The Truth.

[Chaser]

I thought 4x17 was the shirtless gurney episode?

[apinknightmare]

I'm pretty sure it's Oliver on the table, it's time for the "shirtless Oliver on a gurney" already.  And Diggle at the top, but I can't figure out who is at the bottom.  It looks the size of a man but what man would be down there?

 

Did anyone catch what SA was saying in the promo?  I caught something about it's not fair that can he save the city but he can't save his relationship (crying to Laurel, <eyeroll>) but something "Felicity mumble mumble and not surrender to the darkness and I don't think we can".

 

Also, seriously Oliver?  You could have saved your relationship if you had tried. it's something called The Truth.

 

It's Diggle and Lance, and Lyla is at the computer. 

 

And Oliver said, "Felicity thinks that we can save the city and not surrender to the darkness..."

[wonderwall]

I'm pretty sure it's Oliver on the table, it's time for the "shirtless Oliver on a gurney" already.  And Diggle at the top, but I can't figure out who is at the bottom.  It looks the size of a man but what man would be down there?

 

Did anyone catch what SA was saying in the promo?  I caught something about it's not fair that can he save the city but he can't save his relationship (crying to Laurel, <eyeroll>) but something "Felicity mumble mumble and not surrender to the darkness and I don't think we can".

 

Also, seriously Oliver?  You could have saved your relationship if you had tried. it's something called The Truth.

 

I think he said: Felicity needs me to lead and save the city and not surrender to the darkness..."

 

ETA: Someone said it was this ""Felicity said we could save the city and not surrender to the darkness but I don't think that's possible."

Edited February 25, 2016 by wonderwall

[BkWurm1]

ETA: Someone said it was this ""Felicity said we could save the city and not surrender to the darkness but I don't think that's possible."

 

I desperately it proven that he can save the city without surrendering to the darkness.  I have an argument on a site that shall not be mentioned that I need to win.  I am 98% certain I will but we are in the dark, dark days of the show.  All sorts of crap could go down between now and the end. 

[wonderwall]

I wonder if Felicity is going to get kidnapped by Cupid in episode 16 which spurs her onto start training again?

[statsgirl]

If Felicity is kidnapped by Cupid and forced to marry Oliver when she needs time away from him, I will hate MG even more.

[lemotomato]

So they make Cupid into the ultimate crazy Olicity fan? [Edited by mod: Fan talk.]

 

Now I know why MG posted the screencap. He wanted to get a head start on the trolling.

Edited February 25, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[Guest]

Ugh. I really hope that's not what happens because no.

 

[Edited by mod: Fan talk.]

 

Sigh. I'm weary.

Edited February 25, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[lemotomato]

Me too. I had so much hope all the way through 411. Now every spoiler and spec makes me think, "How low can they go?"

[SleepDeprived]

I'm not sure what they're doing with Cupid and the wedding but Felicity and Oliver (and Thea) are all seated together in the courtroom at Darhke's trial. Maybe she sees the Queens all together and decides that they can't break up? Gotta admit, I'm a little uneasy about the implication that the writers may be making fun of Olicity fans with Cupid as a sub for a 'crazy fangirls' kind of plot here. I hope they release the 4x16 synopsis soon.

 

Also, it looks like H.I.V.E., with a lot of prompting by Malcolm I'll bet, sends goons at the jailhouse and has Darhke beaten up.

[lemotomato]

I don't know why I even care at this point, but I wonder why Oliver's fighting in Felicity's office, and who is that he's fighting with?

 

[SleepDeprived]

I think whoever that masked dude is is the one that, maybe, attempts to kidnap Felicity at PT, with Cupid as the limo getaway driver? Thea and Oliver are shown on the motorcycle speeding after the limo, with Thea climbing on top of the roof. After which, Thea literally hits a steel barrier when the limo rams through a gate. Yeouch.

 

Thea, of course, like all masks, will end up with barely a bruise to show for her heroics.

[Password]

Having Felicity marry Oliver seems cruel.

They're going with cruel I guess.

[kismet]

Since anyone is basically allowed in the Lair at this point, who wants to bet that FS brings Curtis into the fold?

 

She just brings him downstairs and is like here are my friends - we save the city. Oh and BTW, I'm taking a few nights off ~ Curtis can fill in.

[Starfish35]

Gotta admit, I'm a little uneasy about the implication that the writers may be making fun of Olicity fans with Cupid as a sub for a 'crazy fangirls' kind of plot here.

So am I, and I'm not even an Olicity shipper. It reminds of some of the things I've heard about some episodes that SPN has done. I'm not a fan of that kind of thing. :(

[bijoux]

Since anyone is basically allowed in the Lair at this point, who wants to bet that FS brings Curtis into the fold?

 

She just brings him downstairs and is like here are my friends - we save the city. Oh and BTW, I'm taking a few nights off ~ Curtis can fill in.

 

As I said, Curtis has proven to be on the team's side and to be trustworthy. I don't need or actively want him in the lair, but I won't begrudge him getting there when he does.

 

Does Malcolm tell Darhk that Ivo is going forward with Genesis? It cannot be that I rightly used the graveyard scene soundtrack to connect it with the island. Originally I thought it must be a connection to Slade, but later on I noticed it was the same score used the first time Amazo was shown. Maybe Ivo's wife actually survived her disease and is even crazier than he was. Or Alex iss Ivo's kid and not Slade's, as has been speculated.

Edited February 25, 2016 by bijoux

[Genki]

As I said, Curtis has proven to be on the team's side and to be trustworthy. I don't need or actively want him in the lair, but I won't begrudge him getting there when he does.

 

Does Malcolm tell Darhk that Ivo is going forward with Genesis? It cannot be that I rightly used the graveyard scene soundtrack to connect it with the island. Originally I thought it must be a connection to Slade, but later on I noticed it was the same score used the first time Amazo was shown. Maybe Ivo's wife actually survived her disease and is even crazier than he was. Or Alex iss Ivo's kid and not Slade's, as has been speculated.

 

The sound is really bad in the preview. 

 

I believe Malcolm said, "H.I.V.E. is going forward with Genesis, but not with you".

 

And I pretty sure Oliver said "It doesn't seem fair that I can save a city but not my relationship"

 

Followed by "Felicity convinced me we can save the city and not surrender to the darkness...[snip]...I don't think we can"

 

It seems like they tried to make Oliver's 2nd line to be refuting Felicity, but I think it was just tricky sound editing for the sake of the promo.

[bijoux]

Since Oliver's fighting for his life in the next episode, does anyone have any guesses on why CR was on the hospital set during the filming of 4x17? Do we have any other pics from that set? I'm trying to remember if the Diggle place was used at all in 4x06. SA, EBR and CR took BTS pics there then and Oliver, Felicity and Donna (sadly) didn't come over to Dig's for dinner. Maybe the set isn't used in the episode at all?

[Morrigan2575]

I don't think he's fighting for his life in 416, everything points to it being 417 and unless it's a the teaser/cliffhanger for 416/417.  

 

I think the promo monkeys just threw it in since it's a long break but, I could be wrong.

[bijoux]

That makes sense.

But at what point do they transfer him to the hospital then? Maybe after everything in the lair crashes or it has been compromised AGAIN. I'm assuming this is what happens because Laurel is presumably using tha cry against someone.

[tv echo]

SA tweeted on Feb. 3, 2016: "It's not a season of Arrow until I'm shirtless on an exam table fighting for my life." (SA tweet, page 866 of Spoiler Discussion thread)  He never said that Oliver was in a hospital.

 

After watching the promos for 416, I just wanted to say... "STFU, Oliver!  Boo hoo, it's so unfair that you saved the city but lost your relationship with Felicity. It's your own damn fault!"  And you're complaining about this to the woman you cheated on when you got BM pregnant.

 

After reading SA's Variety interview, I was all WTF?!  Malcolm and Oliver have "never really been sworn enemies"?  Really, really?  Malcolm is responsible for the deaths of Oliver's parents and hundreds of Starling City residents, the brainwashing and death of Oliver's sister, and the death of Sara (a woman you loved) - and you've never really been sworn enemies?  Is the EPs' selective amnesia contagious?

 

Laurel is using her Canary Cry in the Arrowcave because it's a primal shout of grief over the potential loss of her soul mate. (Yes, that's sarcasm.)

Edited February 25, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

They were filming 4x17 on the third. I know SA didn't mention the hospital, but his tweet and a photo with CR on that set made it seem like a valid guess that he would be in the hospital.

 

[apinknightmare]

After reading SA's Variety interview, I was all WTF?! Malcolm and Oliver have "never really been sworn enemies"? Really, really? Malcolm is responsible for the deaths of Oliver's parents and hundreds of Starling City residents, the brainwashing and death of Oliver's sister, and the death of Sara (a woman you loved) - and you've never really been sworn enemies? Is the EPs' selective amnesia contagious?

They haven't really been sworn enemies, though. Back in S1 when Malcolm did still have some weird-ass twisted sense of justice, Oliver was just fighting to stop the Undertaking, and was just going after Malcolm because he was the perpetrator of that. Ever since Oliver found out Malcolm was alive, he's either been protecting Malcolm, or working with him (secretly or not-so-secretly), even if he did have, like, a moment or two of rage against Malcolm's general being. Oliver's never held him accountable for what he did to Thea, or his hand in Robert's death and his being stranded on Lian Yu.

Edited February 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

So Felicitys new chapter is a way to honor the person in the grave

 

The new chapter, Rickards adds, isn’t necessarily born out of revenge for what Darhk did to her, but “out of respect for whoever is in the grave,” she says cryptically. “It’s not necessarily revenge as it is trying to prevent danger and death in the future.”

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/24/arrow-emily-bett-rickards-felicity-oliver-break-up

[calliope1975]

And I pretty sure Oliver said "It doesn't seem fair that I can save a city but not my relationship"

 

Now I have to listen to this dumbass throw himself a pity party? All for a problem of his own making that he could have solved in .25 seconds by trying really hard and using his brain? Oh boy. Of course, since everyone told him he was in the right...

[Belinea]

So Felicitys new chapter is a way to honor the person in the grave

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/24/arrow-emily-bett-rickards-felicity-oliver-break-up

 

Will she become a police officer? Or BC? 

 

I find it really weird how the season is progressing. Which family aspects are going to come into play again or are we now fully over that theme with last nights episode? I am hopeful that Diggle will still get something to do this season and that Oliver and Felicity will still find a way back to each other. However after listening to the Collider Arrow show (which might not come back next season due to low numbers) I am officially enraged and depressed and hope for the love of God that Laurel will lean on the team and not only Oliver once Quentin dies. 

However I fully believe that MM wants to be the head of HIVE and they will want to go after him at the end of the season when they once again realize that he is an actual bad guy. Sucks that Oliver didn't kill him when he had the chance. But then again he isn't the smartest tool in the box. 

[Chaser]

So Felicitys new chapter is a way to honor the person in the grave

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/24/arrow-emily-bett-rickards-felicity-oliver-break-up

This sounds like a tie in to what Oliver says at the grave, about how this wasn't his fault and I think he mentioned something about responsiblity. It sounds like heroic sacrifice. 

[nksarmi]

I just want to get to the point where we figure out how Oliver and Felicity are going to be around each other - because I have to say after 15 episodes of cutesy - whatever comes next is going to suck and be hard to accept.  And let's just go ahead and reveal who is in the grave and get moving on that.  Both Flash and Arrow have been dragging a secret reveal out a little too long this season - to the point where it's kind of annoying.  At least Flash teased their fans with the Zoom reveal going into the break.  What do Arrow fans get?  A break up that was way too rushed.

 

I really wish they had written Oliver and Felicity a little less perfect this season - it would have made everything make more sense.  They needed more lack of communication, more Oliver withholding (not outright lies, just not telling her his feelings on things), more Felicity questioning Oliver's decisions - little things that couples go through - to even remotely make the BM lie make sense.  But they wrote them as a "perfect" couple - glossing over all the issues they should have had from season three and then BOOM! the break up.  Like everything else this season that could have been good - it just feels so off.

 

I also have to say that I almost glad they played the ridiculous break up scene like they did because Felicity did technically dump him as he was recording a video saying he's sending William away to not know him until he's 18.  That needed time to breathe too.  They needed to cut the flashbacks from this episode so it could have been more like Felicity asking Oliver how he's doing and him telling her that he's sending William and Sam away and then her offering to help and him telling her it's already done - Barry and Cisco took care of everything.  And then she could have given her speech and maybe even had a few more choice lines for him.

 

Oh and yea, despite Oliver and Felicity talking with each other in the middle of the episode and her seeming really understanding and him seeming really open - they still had him not ask her about her feelings or talk to her about if he should push for William to be in their lives more or not (and yes, he should have said "our" lives if he wants to marry her).  Oh and at the end, he seems like he's expecting the break up because that's what happened the first time around.  Nothing past the "I'm trying."  No. "I'm sorry.  Please forgive me.  Let's talk about this more."  Nothing.  It was awful.

[Chaser]

Normally I would get annoyed at people bringing up a return to Oliver and Laurel and some in the comics (or those who say they are) crowd screaming about it, but I'm so chill about Laurel being in the grave that I'm just amused by it all. Which is honestly a little concerning for me. I did not expect to be like 90% sure she would be in the grave (the 10% of uncertainty is from the show's track record at taking the most predictable route and going with Lance). 

 

KL returning could also be more confirmation that MM is the killer. I have such a hard time believing any of this fits Lance.

 

It was difficult to understand Olicity in 4x15. All season they have been having these really great talks and have just been really open with each other and suddenly none of that was there. I mentioned in the episode thread that Oliver seemed resigned but he felt that way though the whole episode. Everything felt half hearted. I could see where Felicity was coming from because she probably got that vibe from him too. Someone on tumblr mentioned Oliver giving Felicity his journal as a sign of trust. That would work for me.