Spoiler Discussion Thread

[jay741982]

I have a hard time believing anyone would look at Diggle and The Lances and decide to go with Diggle. I can't even compute that scenario.

 

Yep. Lol

I agree but these are the same morons who inserted unneeded BS Baby Mama Drama to break up a couple that works on every level. I'm with Angel12D in fearing these writers would kill Diggle

[Guest]

I think the writers did her dirty in this past episode too, with her support of the Donna/Quentin thing, and talking to Donna about trusting Quentin's intentions. I know they're different situations, but if I didn't know better, I would've thought they were setting her up to be immediately forgiving of the lie despite the minefield of anvils about secrets and whatnot that rained down last night. Unless the writers are going to throw us an idiotic curveball and have Oliver do something additionally stupid that compounds it.

 

Yep. Exactly. I don't know if they've set it up for her to be immediately forgiving but they've laid the groundwork of her accepting lies in other situations so eventually she'll come around. Either way, Felicity will accept Oliver's position at some point and Oliver will probably learn nothing. Or at least he'll learn until 515 next season. LMAO.

[jay741982]

It pains me to admit but I agree to an extent. I do think they've set it up for Felicity to be the bad guy in all of this, simply because they've got Thea supporting and enabling Oliver's lie. Critics reviews aside, already I've seen comments saying Thea was being mature finally and 'looking at the bigger picture' because Oliver was only lying to ensure he had a relationship with his son. And also that Felicity should understand and support him for the same reasons. So it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Felicity got a lot of hate for breaking up with him in 415.

I don't agree, of course. I think as long as she waits until William is safe and unharmed, she can't be faulted for not accepting being lied to for months. But I can't say I'm looking forward to the reception of the break-up, especially as a Felicity fan. It sucks because she hasn't even done anything wrong.

I think those people are haters who ignore how bad Thea being lied to and ignoring that POS Malcolm knows about the kid. I seen some of these posts and a bunch of replys to it of basically "Oh so it's good Malcolm knows? The end of the Episode proved how dumb Thea and Oliver are and the original poster didn't even respond back Plus I think if Diggle blasts Oliver for this Secret that will resonate more cause He is more popular than Thea. I'm hoping Dig takes Felicitys side but who knows Edited February 19, 2016 by jay741982

[dtissagirl]

She can dump him softly. "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed", and all. In fact, if she dumps him softly it's even more devastating for Oliver, and I'll appreciate his All By Myself monologue all the better.

 

ETA:

 

Also, and it can not be said enough: randos on the internets hating on Felicity will not influence the outcome of this storyline. At this point the rest of the episodes are all broken. 420 script needs to be locked by Monday. 421 and 422 are in early to mid drafts, meaning the network and the studio have already OKed storyline choices and are now giving notes. Maaaybe 423 isn't being written yet, but that's it. And while Arrow does do minor adjustments to the writing, the writers tend to stick to their planned narrative beats hardcore.

Edited February 19, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Chaser]

They need to bring up Oliver's trips to CC. It's one thing for him to know he has a son and stay away to protect him, but it's another for him to be spending nights (weekends?) playing Momma's Friend. I need her to ask him if he ever took a trip to CC on one of those nights he was avoiding the hospital.

She can dump him softly. "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed", and all. In fact, if she dumps him softly it's even more devastating for Oliver, and I'll appreciate his All By Myself monologue all the better.

The soft break up works so much better. Much more effective too.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think they may actually go with this route, no hysterics, no screaming, just a very quiet hurt and goodbye, with the final shot being the ring on the kitchen counter or something. Because they already did the big, loud fight in 408, so they may want to contrast it. Also, like dtissagirl said, it's much more devastating. 

 

I'm wondering if they may also have Oliver tell Felicity about William JUST before Darhk comes out. The editing of that promo is a bit odd. It may not be just one straight, chronological scene with Darhk saying he'd kidnapped William, Felicity asking who he is and Oliver responding it's his son. 

[Guest]

All I want is a soft break-up tbh. Quiet break-ups are more emotionally wrenching, IMO, rather than shouting. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that. I don't want a repeat of 408. No thank you!

[thegirlsleuth]

I love everybody's idea about the soft breakup,which will pack a bigger emotional wallop, but I must confess that I giggle every time someone references the "All By Myself" dialogue, particularly when I picture it paired with the sad panda gif that was posted a few days ago.

[apinknightmare]

 

but with Oliver. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm going to voice my fear now: 

 

I don't want the kidnapping ordeal to end with Samantha and William knowing that Oliver is the Green Arrow, and some "heartwarming" hug where Oliver promises to introduce the kid to The Flash or something, before everyone trots home to Central City like Oliver isn't a terrible father who repeatedly endangered his son to keep a promise to said son's terrible mother. 

 

I don't think I'm lucky enough for them to do the sensible thing and disappear to a new life with ARGUS, but...I can't handle gooey, mushy, father/son bonding time. I'll actually actively be rooting against Team Arrow for the first time in my viewing life, that's how badly I want this storyline to disappear. But alas. 

 

Anyway. Please don't do that, show.

[AyChihuahua]

When I say I want him dumped hardcore, I don't mean yelling and screaming. I mean I want him fully and completely and "permanently" dumped. I get that they're going to reconcile, hey if he really learns from this and starts PRIORITIZING her, I probably even want them back together. But if it's just an "I need time" and a couple nights on the couch, Oliver, who has never learned not to stick his face in a hornets' nest until he HAS stuck his face in a hornets' nest AT LEAST three times, won't learn jack, and it'll all happen again. They need a full and permanent break, so that he learns how truly devastating it is to be away from her, so he vows never ever to pull this crap again.

 

Then, in S5, he can pull all new idiotic crap. Bc that's how these writers roll.

[way2interested]

I'm wondering if they may also have Oliver tell Felicity about William JUST before Darhk comes out. The editing of that promo is a bit odd. It may not be just one straight, chronological scene with Darhk saying he'd kidnapped William, Felicity asking who he is and Oliver responding it's his son.

Was wondering about that order as well. I'm thinking Felicity asks Oliver who William is after Darhk tells them the news. I'm also wondering why Oliver and Felicity would be in the same room as Darhk in the first place, unless Darhk just randomly shows up as Oliver and Felicity are randomly in an abandoned warehouse. Oliver's son was just kidnapped and he's going to let Darhk get within 15 feet of his soon to be not-paralyzed fiancee whom Darhk was responsible for crippling in the first place?

ETA: Although, I can picture Oliver to tell Felicity who William is just for Darhk to pop in and say, "BTW kidnapped him, hope this doesn't ruin your marriage."

Edited February 19, 2016 by way2interested

[calliope1975]

If Darhk's really a bad guy, he'd remove Spawn from the situation. Send him off to HIVE's Evil Boarding School of Evil. He can even pull a Connor and disappear to another magical dimension only to reappear years later after Arrow has been canceled. 

 

Darhk got giggly over paralyzing a women. He should be sending fingers to Oliver in gift wrapped boxes not planning playdates with his own kid. 

 

It is weird that they've dropped all these anvils that Felicity should excuse this huge lie, but I don't see that actually happening. I'm not quite sure what they're going for here. They're trying to make Oliver sympathetic, but since they've ignored their own story line for so long, it just makes it seem more cruel to Felicity. Just a huge fail all around. 

[EmilyBettFan]

If we want to get technical, William doesn't think or know that Oliver is his dad. How can Oliver even think spending time with William would be like him spending time with his son when the kid just thinks it's a friend of his mom? Also Oliver and the mom are lying to that child.

Stupid freaking storyline.

Edited February 19, 2016 by EmilyBettFan

[AyChihuahua]

What are the chances they are going to go with him being terrified of losing her? There seems to be a fairly strong contingent on Tumblr that believes this, and that he's basically sort of insane with fear, but wants to see his kid, so he's not making sense bc he's sort of crazy? I'd prefer that. I just don't see any in-show support. Yes, Barry told him Felicity dumped him, but he was really casual about time not caring what he told his girlfriend. He told Thea it was re keeping the kid safe and didn't seem to be desperate. He hasn't shown any signs of desperate fear, plus he's visiting the freaking kid. If he were terrified of losing Felicity I'd think he wouldn't visit the kid. 

 

But maybe? I think I would actually not hate him if they went with him being really actually half-crazy bc he's so desperately afraid of losing her. I just REALLY haven't seen that from him, at all. I think they'd have to show him seriously losing it next episode, not about the kid, but about Felicity.

[nksarmi]

My problem is that they haven't actually built up to a break up at all in my opinion.  In fact, I think they spent this last episode building up to Felicity being understanding and forgiving him.  I'm not saying she should - I'm just saying that every line that came out of her mouth to Donna seemed to be foreshadowing that.  And they have been written as so head-over-heels in love. And Felicity knows Oliver's go-to is to lie and she knows he's just dumb enough to keep it a secret if baby momma made him promise.

 

What would have made this damn story work - if it HAD to happen - if they had at least shown Oliver ending some snipping phone call saying "please let me fill her in.  Fine ok, I understand. Yea, I'll be there tomorrow.  Yes, I will keep my promise."  Then let Felicity and Oliver have an aside where she says she wasn't able to reach him at all while she was at work and she wanted to have lunch.  Is his cell phone working?  Yes, it's fine - I just left it in the office while I was out with Alex and Thea.  You know - little bits to show that something was amiss and Felicity was starting to piece it together so when it all comes out - she just feels so damn deceived that her break up makes sense to the audience and Oliver.

 

Right now, it feels like they are just trying to hit us over the head with Oliver is right - Felicity will understand.

[lemotomato]

What are the chances they are going to go with him being terrified of losing her? There seems to be a fairly strong contingent on Tumblr that believes this, and that he's basically sort of insane with fear, but wants to see his kid, so he's not making sense bc he's sort of crazy? I'd prefer that. I just don't see any in-show support. Yes, Barry told him Felicity dumped him, but he was really casual about time not caring what he told his girlfriend. He told Thea it was re keeping the kid safe and didn't seem to be desperate. He hasn't shown any signs of desperate fear, plus he's visiting the freaking kid. If he were terrified of losing Felicity I'd think he wouldn't visit the kid. 

 

But maybe? I think I would actually not hate him if they went with him being really actually half-crazy bc he's so desperately afraid of losing her. I just REALLY haven't seen that from him, at all. I think they'd have to show him seriously losing it next episode, not about the kid, but about Felicity.

This was my head canon along, which was why I wasn't raging about the lie until last night-- that Oliver was keeping his son a secret from specifically Felicity because he thought she dumped him when she found out in the first timeline. It's still wrong, but I could sort of understand how poor, dumb, traumatized Oliver would be so desperate to hang on to the one good thing that's happened to him that he ties himself into knots trying to make both sides of his life work, even if it meant lying. 

 

And then the show had him actually talk about it last night, and all my sympathy got vaporized by the nuclear amount of stupid from his actual reasons. 

Edited February 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

And then the show had him actually talk about it last night, and all my sympathy got vaporized by the nuclear amount of stupid from his actual reasons. 

They still think it, the idea being that he was basically lying to himself about his reasons, thus lying to Thea? I just saw a promo for next week, and all his rage and desperation seems to be focused around his kid, so I'm really doubting it.  Am I missing anything, bc for me, it's the only way to make this SL not 100% suck. 

 

And I would need next week to have him show real desperation and fear re losing her. Not like an offhand comment in the last five minutes that he can't lose her. I would LOVE for the show to give me something that could let me stop kind of hating him.

[lemotomato]

They still think it, the idea being that he was basically lying to himself about his reasons, thus lying to Thea? I just saw a promo for next week, and all his rage and desperation seems to be focused around his kid, so I'm really doubting it.  Am I missing anything, bc for me, it's the only way to make this SL not 100% suck. 

 

And I would need next week to have him show real desperation and fear re losing her. Not like an offhand comment in the last five minutes that he can't lose her. I would LOVE for the show to give me something that could let me stop kind of hating him.

There's nothing in-show that supports that theory aside from the way his decisions were made in 408 could be open to interpretation. The only insight we have into Oliver's thought process about this whole mess was his conversation with Thea last night, when he talked about honoring his promise to BM and protecting the kid.

 

IMO, they decided to go with the worst way this storyline could have gone. I was on the wait-and-see boat even up until last week, and now I just feel stupid for thinking that they could do anything right with this storyline.

Edited February 19, 2016 by lemotomato

[AyChihuahua]

Right now, it feels like they are just trying to hit us over the head with Oliver is right - Felicity will understand.

And every line that came out of her mouth in the prior episode, regarding her father, who she put in JAIL when he broke her trust, foreshadowed her kicking his ass to the curb. These writers suck. It is what it is. Just like how Flash 2.08 was about Oliver finding a peace he never knew with Felicity, and Arrow 4.08 was him lying to her like a rug.

 

I feel like this is a dead horse. We'll know in less than a week, but for me, the BMD itself, SA's comments, and the actual lack of the engagement ring in the FF is pretty good evidence that she's going to dump him. I don't know what else to say.

There's nothing in-show that supports that theory aside from the way his decisions were made in 408 could be open to interpretation. The only insight we have into Oliver's thought process about this whole mess was his conversation with Thea last night, when he talked about honoring his promise to BM and protecting the kid.

Thanks. I would prefer that SO MUCH. I mean, I'd still hate it, but I don't think I'd hate HIM.

[ComicFan777]

My problem is that they haven't actually built up to a break up at all in my opinion.  In fact, I think they spent this last episode building up to Felicity being understanding and forgiving him.  I'm not saying she should - I'm just saying that every line that came out of her mouth to Donna seemed to be foreshadowing that.  And they have been written as so head-over-heels in love. And Felicity knows Oliver's go-to is to lie and she knows he's just dumb enough to keep it a secret if baby momma made him promise.

 

What would have made this damn story work - if it HAD to happen - if they had at least shown Oliver ending some snipping phone call saying "please let me fill her in.  Fine ok, I understand. Yea, I'll be there tomorrow.  Yes, I will keep my promise."  Then let Felicity and Oliver have an aside where she says she wasn't able to reach him at all while she was at work and she wanted to have lunch.  Is his cell phone working?  Yes, it's fine - I just left it in the office while I was out with Alex and Thea.  You know - little bits to show that something was amiss and Felicity was starting to piece it together so when it all comes out - she just feels so damn deceived that her break up makes sense to the audience and Oliver.

 

Right now, it feels like they are just trying to hit us over the head with Oliver is right - Felicity will understand.

 

To me, when Felicity mentioned in the episode that Lance's lie was forgivable, I don't see it being the same as Oliver's BM lies.  Lance's lies are reminiscent of what Oliver did in season 3 to keep his loved ones safe by pushing them away.  Felicity forgave him for last year's problems, so she would see this as forgivable.

 

However, she would not find Oliver's BM lies to her forgiveable (at least immediately) because they are due to emotional blackmail and does not keep William safe.  How does keeping the William a secret from Felicity (specifically) keep his son safe?  The answer is that it doesn't.  This is purely emotional blackmail and we know from previous episodes that Felicity doesn't give in to emotional blackmail.  Felicity would be fine with keeping William a secret from the world, but not from her.  There isn't a reason to keep it from her except for emotional blackmail, so these lies stem from something completely different.  MG/Thea/Oliver may spin it differently by saying that keeping William secret is to keep him safe - this is completely moot now that Malcolm knows.  Now Oliver is just keeping it secret from Felicity purely because Samantha wants him to - I would imagine that giving into this emotional blackmail is absolutely not acceptable in Felicity's eyes.   

Edited February 19, 2016 by ComicFan777

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, I don't think they were paralleling Lance lying to Donna with Oliver lying to Felicity. I think they were contrasting it. Felicty's okay with Lance lying because 1. it's about the mission and 2. she's in on the lie, so she knows there is actual danger involved in what Lance is hiding. Oliver's lying mainly for personal self-serving reasons, and I don't think Felicity will agree that her not knowing about the kid was a good idea, since the demon spawn was kidnapped anyway.

Edited February 19, 2016 by dtissagirl

[nksarmi]

Yea Malcolm knowing really makes Oliver look so very bad.  I hope Felicity finds out about that and points it out to Oliver.  That should put more people on her side.  Shesh, I don't know why it matters to me so much that fans be on her side and not bashing her for the breakup - but it really does.

[ComicFan777]

I wonder if Felicity will find out that she is basically the last one to know or is she just going to find out that Oliver has been lying to her.  If she learns that Oliver deliberately chose to not tell her when so many people knew already, she would be even more devastated.  She is so fiercely loyal and trusting - it just hurts to think how this will break her.  I just hope that she doesn't end up dealing with this alone - I do hope that her friends will support her, not mission-related stuff, but really support her as a friend.  We haven't seen much of that lately even though interviews have stated the team fully supports her, but most of the time, it has felt like she has dealt with most personal issues alone (with the exception of some of the talks with Oliver).  Without Oliver, I hope she still has support.

[wonderwall]

I wonder if Felicity will find out that she is basically the last one to know or is she just going to find out that Oliver has been lying to her.  If she learns that Oliver deliberately chose to not tell her when so many people knew already, she would be even more devastated.  She is so fiercely loyal and trusting - it just hurts to think how this will break her.  I just hope that she doesn't end up dealing with this alone - I do hope that her friends will support her, not mission-related stuff, but really support her as a friend.  We haven't seen much of that lately even though interviews have stated the team fully supports her, but most of the time, it has felt like she has dealt with most personal issues alone (with the exception of some of the talks with Oliver).  Without Oliver, I hope she still has support.

 

She'll have support from her mom and maybe Curtis, but we all know Felicity isn't allowed to interact with anyone in the team let alone Diggle who would actually be the one to be on her side on this matter. I doubt we'll see any meaningful moments of Diggle comforting Felicity or Felicity staying at Diggle's place for a bit or at least Felicity going to dinner at Digg's place..

[ComicFan777]

She'll have support from her mom and maybe Curtis, but we all know Felicity isn't allowed to interact with anyone in the team let alone Diggle who would actually be the one to be on her side on this matter. I doubt we'll see any meaningful moments of Diggle comforting Felicity or Felicity staying at Diggle's place for a bit or at least Felicity going to dinner at Digg's place..

I think Donna won't be back until 4x17, so immediately after, she wouldn't have her mom.  Fingers crossed that Diggle will be around to support her.  In season 3 he stuck to Oliver most of the time.  Curtis is nice, but Diggle would be better. 

[wonderwall]

I think Donna won't be back until 4x17, so immediately after, she wouldn't have her mom.  Fingers crossed that Diggle will be around to support her.  In season 3 he stuck to Oliver most of the time.  Curtis is nice, but Diggle would be better. 

I agree! But I've been so burned before and I'm still being robbed of good Delicity scenes D: 

[statsgirl]

I want to know how William was so stupid as to go with DD.  Did BM never talk to him about stranger danger?  And if they did kidnap him, why was he so comfortable at DD's home?

They need to bring up Oliver's trips to CC. It's one thing for him to know he has a son and stay away to protect him, but it's another for him to be spending nights (weekends?) playing Momma's Friend. I need her to ask him if he ever took a trip to CC on one of those nights he was avoiding the hospital.

The soft break up works so much better. Much more effective too.

While it may be better for Olicity shippers, I don't think it's fair to Oliver for her to break up just by leaving the ring on the table rather than telling him in person how she feels. (And it reminds me of the parenting technique of "I want you to go and think about what you've done" which I hate with a passion.)

 

It also doesn't punch home the point that it's not because he has a kid that she breaks up with him, as he thinks from what Barry told him, but because he was lying to her for all those months.  And because he was such an idiot as to put the boy in danger because he didn't tell Felicity and Diggle that they need to protect him.

 

But definitely yes to asking him if he was spending time in Central City while avoiding Felicity in the hospital.

 

 

Yeah, I don't think they were paralleling Lance lying to Donna with Oliver lying to Felicity. I think they were contrasting it. Felicty's okay with Lance lying because 1. it's about the mission and 2. she's in on the lie, so she knows there is actual danger involved in what Lance is hiding. Oliver's lying mainly for personal self-serving reasons, and I don't think Felicity will agree that her not knowing about the kid was a good idea, since the demon spawn was kidnapped anyway.

But you know that Felicity is going to be called a hypocrite because she told Donna to trust Lance and now she doesn't trust Oliver.  Laurel is going to be so much more understanding, and she has more reason to be angry because it was her that Oliver cheated on to conceive the boy.  (Nice to have that confirmed though.)

[dtissagirl]

But you know that Felicity is going to be called a hypocrite because she told Donna to trust Lance and now she doesn't trust Oliver. Laurel is going to be so much more understanding, and she has more reason to be angry because it was her that Oliver cheated on to conceive the boy. (Nice to have that confirmed though.)

I'm so allergic to ~Defense Squads~ that the thing I'm dreading the most aren't the randos who watch tv wrong and have poor text interpretation skills. I'm dreading the Felicity defense squad paying attention to the randos, and creating a massive amount of defensive content to counteract the randos, which will inevitably end in wankiness.

Edited February 19, 2016 by dtissagirl

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Sweet fancy Moses, I'm in meetings all day and this thread goes bananas.  

 

Spartan and anyone else who is so inclined, DO NOT TAUNT OTHER FANS!  It's ok to express your opinion about the show, it's NOT ok to express your opinion about other fans or their opinions. 

 

Taunted Fans, STOP ENGAGING WITH TAUNTERS!  I know the mods aren't always here all the time to drop the hammer on inappropriate posts when they happen.  That doesn't mean you should take on the job of dealing with the objectionable behavior yourself.  This just leads to Lord of the Flies. 

 

In general, everyone has gotten a LOT better about cutting out the fan talk and arguing.  However, I've had to make a bunch of these posts over the past week or so and I'm going to start handing out warnings.  

 

To sum up:  Don't make me turn this car around.

[Primal Slayer]

I can't wait to see how all of this plays out. Just want to get it over with.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Primal Slayer

[wonderwall]

Taunted Fans, STOP ENGAGING WITH TAUNTERS!  I know the mods aren't always here all the time to drop the hammer on inappropriate posts when they happen.  That doesn't mean you should take on the job of dealing with the objectionable behavior yourself.  This just leads to Lord of the Flies. 

 

I apologize! Tbh I'm done really trying lol I'm just going to stick to the block and report button now. Also, you aren't wearing a seat belt, that's illegal and I'm side eyeing you so hard right now for it. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

What are the chances they are going to go with him being terrified of losing her? There seems to be a fairly strong contingent on Tumblr that believes this, and that he's basically sort of insane with fear, but wants to see his kid, so he's not making sense bc he's sort of crazy? I'd prefer that. I just don't see any in-show support. Yes, Barry told him Felicity dumped him, but he was really casual about time not caring what he told his girlfriend. He told Thea it was re keeping the kid safe and didn't seem to be desperate. He hasn't shown any signs of desperate fear, plus he's visiting the freaking kid. If he were terrified of losing Felicity I'd think he wouldn't visit the kid. 

 

But maybe? I think I would actually not hate him if they went with him being really actually half-crazy bc he's so desperately afraid of losing her. I just REALLY haven't seen that from him, at all. I think they'd have to show him seriously losing it next episode, not about the kid, but about Felicity.

 

This was my original interpretation of the lie, right after 2x08, but the show hasn't gone there with Oliver's explanation. They went with the stupid "kid has to be protected" crap. Now, if when the shit hits the fan on Tuesday and suddenly Oliver pulls this one out ... eh, we'll see. But I've read the Tumblr metas and while well-written, I don't see anything supporting it in-show right now.

[wonderwall]

One of the biggest issue with the lie is that we don't see Oliver's point of view in this whatsoever and I think the only reason why we don't is because the writers literally don't know what to say that makes sense. So instead of having Oliver say what he feels about the lie, they use Thea as a mouthpiece for some reason (even though this doesn't make any sense either... IDK). 

[statsgirl]

Well they did go with the stupid "Oliver needs to team up with Malcolm to defeat Ra's" last season so I'm not surprised they're going with "Oliver needs to keep William a secret so that he can keep seeing him."

 

Disappointed, yes, but not surprised.
 

Edited February 19, 2016 by statsgirl

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

Also, you aren't wearing a seat belt, that's illegal and I'm side eyeing you so hard right now for it. 

 

It's hard to buckle up when you don't have opposable thumbs.

[Starfish35]

Lol. :)

[wonderwall]

It's hard to buckle up when you don't have opposable thumbs.

If you can pass the written test at the DMV you can buckle up. I'm tired of your excuses -_-

Edited February 19, 2016 by wonderwall

[bijoux]

When I say I want him dumped hardcore, I don't mean yelling and screaming. I mean I want him fully and completely and "permanently" dumped. I get that they're going to reconcile, hey if he really learns from this and starts PRIORITIZING her, I probably even want them back together. But if it's just an "I need time" and a couple nights on the couch, Oliver, who has never learned not to stick his face in a hornets' nest until he HAS stuck his face in a hornets' nest AT LEAST three times, won't learn jack, and it'll all happen again. They need a full and permanent break, so that he learns how truly devastating it is to be away from her, so he vows never ever to pull this crap again.

 

Then, in S5, he can pull all new idiotic crap. Bc that's how these writers roll.

Considering that the LoT episode with the possible future scenario features Oliver Queen dead in the public eye airs the day after 4x15, I don't see a chance that they won't break up. And I want it to be actually shown, for them both to be allowed to say something about it, so that it becomes a stoyline that affects the show's characters.

[looptab]

I have to say I am disappointed that the writers chose to avoid what little could be done to show Oliver's conflict. I had speculated a while back that he could have been calling/visiting Samantha to redefine the terms, they could have had him starting to tell Felicity and then being interrupted, but no, we had Thea green lighting him, so it's all fine. :/ Oh the irony of Thea's approval, she who acted as if Oliver had known about her true parentage all along!

 

I vote for this season's lesson for Oliver is: chosen family is just as important as blood family

I thought this was what they were going to do. We even got that line abpout Diggle's green brother, but who knows?

 

The writers made some weird choices, to say the least, wrt the BMD storyline.  I agree that Felicity was understanding of Lance because she was aware of the whole picture and that the two situations were a contrast rather than a parallel, but  she has a stance in one episode and the opposite in the next. Much like  last year had Roy being against Malcolm one episode and vauching for him the next. I do think the show is telling that Oliver is doing the right thing, but Felicity's reaction is unpredictable to me at this point, even knowing that spoilers heavily suggest a break up and that it seems inevitable at this point.

 

All this to say that, as someone has stated upthread, I don't understand what the show is trying to do. I think they want to show both of them being both right and wrong as in S3's Merlyn debacle, but doing an even suckier job of it. As for the audience reaction, it will be split. There will be those who took the show at face value and believe that Oliver had no choice but lying, and those who'll only see the stupidity flashing like a neon sign.

 

BTW, I want a soft break up, too. I want the same tone and quiet heartbreak of the "Because of the life that I lead" speech.

Edited February 19, 2016 by looptab

[bijoux]

I just know I'm excited about Thea sharing scenes with Samantha next episode. Oh, it's so good to meet you. I've always had so much understanding for women who lie to their kids about their parentage and been their vocal supporter. I will laugh and laugh and laugh. Then Laurel can join and possibly apologize for not training Ollie better.

[AyChihuahua]

One of the biggest issue with the lie is that we don't see Oliver's point of view in this whatsoever and I think the only reason why we don't is because the writers literally don't know what to say that makes sense. So instead of having Oliver say what he feels about the lie, they use Thea as a mouthpiece for some reason (even though this doesn't make any sense either... IDK). 

Per the above, he told Thea it was about keeping the kid safe and honoring his promise to the hagbag. That seems like a clear statement of his POV...whether it sticks or not is probably another story.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Is anyone else wondering why Oliver took Felicity to what appears to be an abandoned warehouse to tell her about his kid? Maybe she insisted to go with him but I also don't see Oliver taking her to a meeting with DD, who almost killed her, or whoever he was supposed to meet in that sketchy place since she can't even run away.

[akiss]

I, for one, hate the idea that Oliver would lie to Felicity because he's afraid of losing her. That's problematic for me. One should be in a relationship because one wants to, not because they don't have all the info. It's better, for me that he does it for BM or the kid or whatever. It's stupid and damages the foundation of their trust, but at least it's not manipulative.

 

Also, I don't care if it's a quiet or a loud break up, as long as there is one because they should send the message that it's not okay to lie. And then let them have the message that it's okay to forgibve too, because I'd hate a prolonged period with O licity at odds.

[dtissagirl]

I'm thinking DD asked them for the meeting, and threatened to do something nasty if they don't show up?

[way2interested]

I'm thinking DD asked them for the meeting, and threatened to do something nasty if they don't show up?

I get that, but both Oliver and Felicity? Does Felicity just tag along with Oliver meeting up with the Big Bad? Does Darhk know about this fatigue with the baby mama drama and just decides to rip the band aid off for the sake of the audience?

[Midnight Lullaby]

But why would he want Felicity to show up? I guess it was easier for the writers to save time and have her there instead of shooting a separate scene, but still..

[dtissagirl]

I don't know, maybe Yenta Merlyn told DD Oliver is hiding the kid from Felicity, and DD summoned her along to create relarionship drama for lols. He IS the type to do stuff for lols.

[Morrigan2575]

I'm apparently missing a shit load of information overnight.

 

1 - When did we find out that Thea/Samantha are in scenes together

2 - When did we find out that Oliver takes Felicity to tell her about William?

3 - Are there spoilers posted in other thread besides Spoilers Only?  

[Chaser]

You didn't miss anything. People just speculating.

I don't know where the Thea and BM came from but I think it was a joke.

The Oliver and Felicity thing is from the promo. Abandon warehouse with DD. Trying to figure out the timeline.