Spoiler Discussion Thread

[apinknightmare]

I read some Q&A recently, I think it was Tori Spelling, and she said VC Andrews was her favorite author.  LOL for days.

 

I don't want Oliver to move in/crash with Felicity either.  TBH the whole "exploring Oliver's feelings" makes me side eye the writers.  I'm just not ready for this and I can't see how it will end well.  There are just too many writing pitfalls that can happen along the way.  Doesn't this seem better suited for a fall finale/break?

 

Oliver's feelings for Felicity (and hers for him) are a season-long arc this year. And I guess you can say it doesn't start well, since they break things off after their first date.  :) I think (eventually) it will end well, though.

I guess he knows what gets the internet buzzing. 

 

So we're keeping the original foundry? I thought they would be moving to foundry 2.0 that Oliver was hiding out in though I prefer 1.0. 

 

Oh man, now I have to decide if I should get the digital comics or the print version. Decisions, decisions. 

 

I guess they keep the foundry - that's where they were in the S3 promo video, and it looks like that pic of Daddy Diggle and Oliver was taken there as well. I look forward to that explanation, which means there probably won't be one.

[dtissagirl]

Greg Berlanti confirmed they're keeping the lair ["I like the Bat-lair!"] in the same interview he said Oliver is gonna have to find a new place to live:

 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I really don't think they'll have Oliver living with Felicity. He is not THAT poor. In fact, he's not poor at all.  I really don't want him living with anybody because that just doesn't make sense for Oliver; I'm sure he can afford an apartment in Starling City. It doesn't have to be the penthouse.

 

I was joking when I came up with the scenario earlier about Oliver getting hurt and ending up at Felicity's place, but now I think that may actually be the case after MG's second tweet. It gets late and Felicity says "Stay the night." Then the line about the bed. (moving thoughts about the slip to the Felicity thread because I'll be rambling about her character).

[abhi]

Hmm, not impressed with the sappy dialogues that we are going to get between Oliver and Felicity. Is this what we are going to get in the main Season too, I know there's no context but these dialogues make it appear as if Felicity is too desperate to get some action. I guess when the writers try too hard for something they fuck it up. I thought they had done away with the annoying slip of tongues which were sexual in nature and never did Felicity's character any good.

Edited August 27, 2014 by abhi

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

I guess when the writers try too hard for something they fuck it up.

 

Well, these are the same writers who came up with Laurel's "I know you in my bones" and Sara's "someone who can harness the light still inside of you".LOL.   Lines that I thought were sappy and over the top, so I expect at least some of that will continue in the coming season.

[dtissagirl]

I can see "Stay in my place tonight" as a legit serious/worried line if Oliver has a head injury or something, and then "you need to be in my bed" being the slip of the tongue because Felicity is nervous about him being at her place.

[statsgirl]

Oliver was pretty repulsed when he found out that his father had slept with Isabel too.

 

The dialogue MG tweeted is from the s2.5 comics and not the TV show, right?

Every dialogue tease that I could find from MG & AK between S1-S2 was always Felicity related, either something she said or something said to her...I looked it up last season because I was curious.

That's interesting.  Either he knows this will get the fans reacting, or he just like the character.

 

I always thought that MG and AK loved Laurel because they were the ones who wrote her in the comics, esp AK, so they want people to love their baby.  But this version of Felicity is even more their baby, they created her from just a name and a profession.  So maybe when MG tweets a line by or about Felicity, it's showing off his cleverness in creating her.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I think Guggenheim likes Felicity and enjoys the response he gets when he tweets or posts about her. I can't find the interview where he said that his favorite character to write for is Felicity. (I think he also said something about how his brain works similar to Felicity's, which kinda disconcerted me because my brain put Felicity's blonde hair on MG's head.)

[Password]

Well, these are the same writers who came up with Laurel's "I know you in my bones" and Sara's "someone who can harness the light still inside of you".LOL.   Lines that I thought were sappy and over the top, so I expect at least some of that will continue in the coming season.

I thought Sara's line was fine. It made sense with what she was trying to get through. Laurel's line was a whole other business! There is no excuse for not one, but too incredibly terrible lines from Laurel in the space of 1 minute. Made even worse by the fact that they're untrue.

" I know you in my bones...I know you like I know my own name."

I can't even.

[Velocity23]

PB excited for episode 5! 

[Morrigan2575]

I don't get PBs tweet.  They started filming 305 on Monday, we know that SA/Charlotte Ross, SA/DR and EBR/Charlotte filmed scenes together on Monday,  There was also an extra that tweeted about filming a scene with KC (he was dressed as a cop) on Monday and EBR posted a pic (yesterday) of CH in Arsenal gear sitting around between takes.  

 

Seems odd that he's just doing the read through now, unless he wasn't due to film for another couple of days?

[apinknightmare]

Oliver was pretty repulsed when he found out that his father had slept with Isabel too.

The dialogue MG tweeted is from the s2.5 comics and not the TV show, right?

He does both, but the lines he teased last night are from the season 2.5 tie-in comics.

[dtissagirl]

Suzanne Gomez [she leads the CW's marketing department] watched 301 and posted a few tidbits on Twitter:

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504001116284403712

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504001749317722112

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504002712501878784

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504002879791693826

 

Nothing new except the bit about Laurel being pissed at something, but then again, what else is new. *g*

Edited August 27, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Angel12d]

Suzanne Gomez [she leads the CW's marketing department] watched 301 and posted a few tidbits on Twitter:

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504001116284403712

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504001749317722112

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504002712501878784

 

https://twitter.com/Chico6/status/504002879791693826

 

Nothing new except the bit about Laurel being pissed at something, but then again, what else is new. *g*

 

Ooooooooh. I am so excited! I'm intrigued by what might piss Laurel off. I'm guessing it might be something to do with Sara but who knows?!!

[Velocity23]

Marc explained that the elements in 2.5 connect up with season 3 . 

[Password]

So...are we annoyed at that? ^

[JenMD]

I was already annoyed.  Now I'm just more so.

[Angel12d]

It is kind of sneaky that they're introducing stuff in the comics that plays out in s3. As long as you don't have to read the comics though, it shouldn't be too bad. Still, I'm kind of annoyed that we're not going to actually see the build up to certain things like Oliver finally asking Felicity on a date and Laurel and Oliver becoming business partners.

[NumberCruncher]

So here's my question:  Are the tie-in comics a lucrative business for the show or are they just a lame attempt at luring fans into buying the mainline Green Arrow comic books?  If the former I guess I can somewhat see the point, but if it's the latter, I don't really see how the tie-ins accomplish that given that the TV and comic storylines don't converge.  Seems like most of the non-comic fans of the show I've observed don't really have interest in reading comic books in general.  What they see on their TV screen is what's important to them.  If the producers skip over a bunch of plot lines during the 5-month hiatus, they might as well not even exist for those viewers.  Also, are the tie-in comics read in great abundance by the comic book crowd?  I'm genuinely curious.

[Password]

It is kind of sneaky that they're introducing stuff in the comics that plays out in s3. As long as you don't have to read the comics though, it shouldn't be too bad. Still, I'm kind of annoyed that we're not going to actually see the build up to certain things like Oliver finally asking Felicity on a date and Laurel and Oliver becoming business partners.

 

I hope it's not the case, although I heard somewhere that Blood isn't dead and that's one of the plotlines in the comic. If Sebastian Blood fans find that tidbit out, and they're not into comics I imagine there would be a lot of unhappy campers. I agree with @NumberCruncher it's really risky and I'm trying to see where they're coming from with this angle.

Edited August 27, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[Morrigan2575]

I hope it's not the case, although I heard somewhere that Blood isn't dead and that's one of the plotlines in the comic. If Sebastian Blood fans find that tidbit out, and they're not into comics I imagine there would be a lot of unhappy campers. I agree with @NumberCruncher it's really risky and I'm trying to see where they're coming from with this angle.

 

It's not Sebastian Blood AFAIK they even highlight that it could be a new cult leader in the comic solicits.  Remember Slade told Blood that anyone could wear the mask...looks like they're setting up a new Brother Blood.

 

So here's my question:  Are the tie-in comics a lucrative business for the show or are they just a lame attempt at luring fans into buying the mainline Green Arrow comic books?  If the former I guess I can somewhat see the point, but if it's the latter, I don't really see how the tie-ins accomplish that given that the TV and comic storylines don't converge.

 

I think DC is hoping to get as many viewers into comics as possible which is why i think they added Felicity and the potential of Olicity to the n52 GA title.  However, I don't kno9w if they're hoping the Arrow 2.5 title will be a gateway comic to get people into DCU...although it wouldn't be a bad thing to do from their perspective.  The GA title sells around 23K print issues/month, Arrow brings in low to mid 2 Million viewers per week, it would make sense to try and get as many as they can.  DC likes me, I'm a Marvel comic reader who decided to give DC (GA and BoP) a try because of Arrow.  However, DC would love to attract people who have never picked up a comic in their life but started reading because of Arrow or Flash.  Hell, since BoP is gone I'm looking for another title...maybe I'll give Flash or Constantine a try.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

So here's my question:  Are the tie-in comics a lucrative business for the show or are they just a lame attempt at luring fans into buying the mainline Green Arrow comic books? 

...

Also, are the tie-in comics read in great abundance by the comic book crowd?  I'm genuinely curious.

 

There is no way to know how lucrative they are because digital sales numbers are ~secret. Neither Comixology nor DC Comics ever divulge how well the digital comics are doing, so we only have the print comics numbers. And, specifically for the Digital First line, those print numbers are fairly low because the people who were interested in the first place already got the digital issues, and won't pay for the same thing twice.

 

But I can make an educated guess that this is a lucrative business between the WB/CW and DC Comics because it's not just Arrow doing the tie-in books right now. Smallville was the first one in 2012, and it's still on-going. Then Arrow had a first run during season 1, then Vampire Diaries got a tie-in series [also still on-going]. And now they're back with both Arrow and the new Flash book. So while we may never know how many copies in digital they're selling, the fact that keep releasing new books that tie-in to WB television properties tells me that there IS money being made.

[Kymmi]

Do we have any information on what kind of business Laurel and Oliver go into together?  

[NumberCruncher]

Thanks for the info, @dancingnancy and @Morrigan2575.  I didn't realize that there were that many specific tie-in comic fans. 

 

@Kymmi - I don't think anything specific has been announced, but there has been discussion that Oliver catches the criminals and Laurel puts them away (presumably as part of her DA duties).  I wonder if she's going to be using Oliver and the team as her primary means to uncover evidence against the evildoers.

Edited August 27, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[apinknightmare]

Do we have any information on what kind of business Laurel and Oliver go into together?

They're "business partners" in that Oliver catches the criminals and Laurel prosecutes them.

Unless the story gets super ridiculous and also has them owning Verdant together (which worries me because of the BTS pic of Stephen and Katie one of the directors tweeted of the two of them in the club. Of course, that could mean anything but I always worry about stupid plot developments, and that one would be stupid). I mean, either Oliver manages to get Verdant back or someone in the know buys it, since the lair is still in the basement.

But that's just speculation on my part.

[Password]

I wonder if she's going to be using Oliver and the team as her primary means to uncover evidence against the evildoers.

This would be inadmissable in court yes? But maybe because people love Arrow now the laws change and vigilantes are allowed to bring in criminals?

[NumberCruncher]

This would be inadmissable in court yes? But maybe because people love Arrow now the laws change and vigilantes are allowed to bring in criminals?

 

Generally, yes, but I could see her using information that Oliver and Co. collect to tip off police and obtain warrants.  Then again, this show does love to rewrite the basics of business and the law to fit the story, so I'm sure we'll be seeing plenty of that too, LOL.

[Password]

Generally, yes, but I could see her using information that Oliver and Co. collect to tip off police and obtain warrants.

I also thought so but Felicity breaks the law in her information acquisition (hello FBI). Hopefully it's addressed in the show.

[statsgirl]

I don't get PBs tweet.  They started filming 305 on Monday, we know that SA/Charlotte Ross, SA/DR and EBR/Charlotte filmed scenes 

Seems odd that he's just doing the read through now, unless he wasn't due to film for another couple of days?

 

Maybe he's not in the episode but he's one of those actors who reads and sees the scenes that he's not in too, to get a sense of where the show is going.  But more likely he's minimal in this episode since it's the Felicity backstory one.

 

Unless the story gets super ridiculous and also has them owning Verdant together (which worries me because of the BTS pic of Stephen and Katie one of the directors tweeted of the two of them in the club. Of course, that could mean anything but I always worry about stupid plot developments, and that one would be stupid). I mean, either Oliver manages to get Verdant back or someone in the know buys it, since the lair is still in the basement.

But that's just speculation on my part.

 

I think they're going to have to be careful about how they write Laurel because by now she's an even more divisive character and they really blew it with the time spent (wasted) on the Lance Family Drama last season.    If they have her owning part of Verdant because Oliver doesn't have enough money to buy it all, it will give her a reason to be in scenes in Verdant and the Arrow Cave more but I can't see anyone being happy about that other than her fans.

Edited August 27, 2014 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

I think "business partners" means an actual business - so it could very well be Verdant or some other business that Oliver and Laurel invest in together.  Laurel really must have a trust fund or inheritance of some kind.  How else can she always afford to dress so fashionably, first on a nonprofit job salary and now on a DA salary, let alone invest in a business.  It would be different if she had first worked for a large law firm earning (and saving) tons of money before taking on the lower paying law jobs.

 

There's a big difference between Laurel breaking the law and someone else like Felicity breaking the law.  Laurel is a lawyer and moreover a DA, so she's an officer of the court sworn to enforce the law and prosecute those who break the law (she even has a badge!).

Edited August 27, 2014 by tv echo

[Morrigan2575]

Pretty sure the comment about them being business partners is directly related to the fact that Oliver is catching the bad guys and Laurel prosecuting them...I think MG even linked the two in an interview.

[Password]

Sure but is it kosher for the DA to get her information from illegal activity?

I can just imagine her asking Felicity to get her information from Interpol only to arrest her. That would be funny.

Edited August 27, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[statsgirl]

It makes the most sense that Felicity digs up the info, Laurel gets the warrant, Oliver/Diggle/Roy stop the bad guys, Laurel prosecutes.  (I hope the writers handle it well because, again, my resentment of Laurel.) 

I think "business partners" means an actual business - so it could very well be Verdant or some other business that Oliver and Laurel invest in together.  Laurel really must have a trust fund or inheritance of some kind.  How else can she always afford to dress so fashionably, first on a nonprofit job salary and now on a DA salary, let alone invest in a business.  It would be different if she had first worked for a large law firm earning (and saving) tons of money before taking on the lower paying law jobs.

I have no doubt they would write a trust fund in to explain it but it's a leap since her father is blue collar (PB confirmed at SDCC) and university lecturers don't get paid very much.

[apinknightmare]

I think "business partners" means an actual business - so it could very well be Verdant or some other business that Oliver and Laurel invest in together. Laurel really must have a trust fund or inheritance of some kind. How else can she always afford to dress so fashionably, first on a nonprofit job salary and now on a DA salary, let alone invest in a business. It would be different if she had first worked for a large law firm earning (and saving) tons of money before taking on the lower paying law jobs.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I do have a gut feeling that they mean "business partners" literally. I hope it's not Verdant, what with Laurel being a recovering addict (not that addicts can't own nightclubs, but most of them probably wouldn't get into the business after entering recovery) but that is so something this show would do. Not to mention the money aspect. So...yeah, I'll just keep hoping I'm wrong.

[tv echo]

Sure but is it kosher for the DA to get her information from illegal activity?

I can just imagine her asking Felicity to get her information from Interpol only to arrest her. That would be funny.

Not sure whether your question was serious, but here's some useful info.

 

Prosecution Function - Criminal Justice Standards - American Bar Association

http://www.americanbar.org/publications/criminal_justice_section_archive/crimjust_standards_pfunc_blkold.html

Standard 3-3.1 Investigative Function of Prosecutor

   (a) A prosecutor ordinarily relies on police and other investigative agencies for investigation of alleged criminal acts, but the prosecutor has an affirmative responsibility to investigate suspected illegal activity when it is not adequately dealt with by other agencies.

  *  *  *  *

   (c ) A prosecutor should not knowingly use illegal means to obtain evidence or to employ or instruct or encourage others to use such means..

Edited August 27, 2014 by tv echo

[Password]

So...how will Arrow get around it?

Thank you @tv echo

Edited August 27, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[calliope1975]

I wouldn't be surprised if illegal evidence was never addressed. Much like Moira's speedy trial and Laurel's involvement which would never have happened in the real world. But in TV Land, it'll just be hand-waved away for dramatic story line purposes. 

[Velocity23]

Everybody is so freaking excited! I want this episode now!

 

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by Velocity23

[TanyaKay]

Looks like Charlotte Ross is winning hearts, left right and center.

[writersblock51]

I'm inclined to be annoyed by the whole premise of the 2.5 comics but I also will withold final judgement once I see how S2's stories shape up - if there are huge gaps (or lack of build up) that are only explained by reading the comics, then heck yes, I will be very angry.  As would, I believe, many of the show's fans - especially since there are bound to be ones that don't follow the comics.

 

"Business partners"  - I had thought it was the catch 'em/jail 'em thing but now I'm not sure.  If somehow Laurel has piles of money to invest, I'm calling foul.  Again.  Because as much as it would annoy me and cause a massive eye roll, it would not surprise me in the least.  Just add it to the long list of reasons I dislike her so much.

 

Ep5 seems to be generating a lot of good buzz already, which is nice to see.  And Charlotte Ross seems fully on board with the social media thing the cast/crew seems to do well.

 

I do think DC knows that Felicity brings a great deal of appeal to the show and therefore is a low risk move for them to incorporate fully into the GA comics.  No clue how they will measure the success, though, since the digital comic sales are not tangible, by all accounts.

[wonderwall]

Laurel being rich enough to be 'business partners' with Oliver or even investing in a company/club (enough to be a majority shareholder) isn't realistic for Laurel at all. In fact, I'm surprised she's not struggling with money at all. 

 

why?

 

1. She worked for essentially a non-profit = terrible pay
2. She works for the DAs office = slightly better but still terrible pay
3. She comes from a middle-class family so she doesn't have a trust fund to fall back on
4. Law school guzzles a lot of money so Laurel probably has student debt to be paid off
5. Laurel was unemployed for a significant period which meant her cash outflows (on booze) were greater than inflows (which was zero)

 

None of this screams rich or even being comfortable enough to be business partners with anyone. Sure she might have made a couple of investments in the bond and stock market, but that wouldn't nearly be enough to help run/save/acquire a company. B

 

So if she ever is Oliver's business partner in the non-vigilante sense, then I'll cry foul. I'm already having trouble believing them being partners in the vigilante sense because the way The Arrow acquires his info isn't nearly legal, therefore it would be near impossible for Laurel to prosecute the defendant.  But then again, I don't think this will be an issue for Arrow because this isn't a legal drama and the writers don't really give a damn about legal formalities (conflict of interest for when Laurel was prosecuting Moira anyone?!??)

 

Also I'm pretty sure that Laurel will only get the DAs position because of her working with The Arrow and not because of her own hard work. Working with the Arrow essentially would make it easier for Laurel to put away bad guys. Yet again, Laurel gets the easy way out... 

Edited August 27, 2014 by wonderwall

[Angel12d]

I thought the whole business partners thing was Oliver catching the bad guys and Laurel putting them away but like others have said, I'm not so sure now.

 

Also, if the team still operate in the same 'lair' as before that means Oliver must regain control of Verdant and I assumed that Isabel took that away from him too. My only guess is rather than having money to invest (which I don't believe for reasons people have explained above) maybe Laurel is the one who co-signs an agreement or something. You know sometimes when people get loans or mortgages they have to have someone reputable to co-sign it to ensure payment if that person fails to do so first. I wouldn't be surprised if Laurel being the DA was able to co-sign Oliver's lease on the club again? I'm guessing here but I can't think how else they would be 'business partners' outside of the whole 'you catch 'em, I cook 'em' thing.

[apinknightmare]

Also I'm pretty sure that Laurel will only get the DAs position because of her working with The Arrow and not because of her own hard work. Working with the Arrow essentially would make it easier for Laurel to put away bad guys. Yet again, Laurel gets the easy way out... 

 

I just assumed she was DA because Slade's army killed everyone else in the DA's office. Like...she was literally the only one left, haha.

Edited August 27, 2014 by apinknightmare

[writersblock51]

I just assumed she'd be DA because Slade's army killed everyone else in the DA's office. Like...she was literally the only one left, haha.

@apinknightmare  - this is exactly what I was thinking, too!  Who have we seen in that office - with a speaking role, even if just 1 word - who is still alive besides her?

 

@wonderwall , your list is accurate. I don't think any of that will matter in the least, however.  For as flimsy as the reasons given for the Queens losing nearly everything in one fell swoop (by a now known crazy, evil & manipulative person), there will be just as worse ones for Laurel having the capital to invest. 

 

Or - it can all be explained somehow in that Laurel got financial backing based on her stellar record and is using it to help Oliver with Verdant or something.

Edited August 27, 2014 by writersblock51

[wonderwall]

@writersblock51, what's funny is that no one in Laurel's position can ever invest in anything as big as a club or a tiny company without a bank loan. And I doubt a bank would loan cash to a Lawyer who has no background in business. 

 

For a show that wants to be grounded, it's pretty unrealistic in terms of the details. Eg) Laurel would never be able to be a part of the case against Moira, Roy wouldn't be competent enough (now with the Mirakuru out of his system) to go out on missions (not yet), Felicity wouldn't be able to hack things in 2.3 seconds etc. 

[Morrigan2575]

I learned a couple of things today that have led to my first crack theory of season 3. I learned that in the premiere Sarah's line about not being gone too long is to Laurel not a Oliver (stated by EP in an interview). I also saw a tweet from Chico6 who got an advanced screening of 301, she made comment that Laurel is going to be pissed about something.

So, here's my crack theory.

In the premiere the person in "the hood" that Sara is talking to on the roof is Laurel, she's up there trying to be a vigilante. Sara saves her butt and basically tells Laurel to stick to being a lawyer she doesn't have it in her to do what Sara/Oliver are doing. This pisses Laurel off so she starts her "journey" with the whole "am I me or my sister?"

Edited August 28, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Starfish35]

Katana recast -

http://deadline.com/2014/08/rila-fukushima-arrow-riley-voelkel-point-of-honor-825328/

Rila Fukushima (Wolverine) has landed a major recurring role on the hit CW drama Arrow. She will play Tatsu Yamashiro, a character that first appeared in the Green Arrow origin series graphic novels published by DC Comics. She is a Japanese martial arts expert who wields a deadly sword, a blade from which her codename Katana is derived. In Arrow, Tatsu will be one of Oliver’s mentors in the flashbacks and a critical influence on his journey to eventually become The Arrow of present day. Fukushima, repped by Seven Summits and ICM Partners, replaces Devon Aoki, who was originally cast in the role but pulled out because of a scheduling conflict.

This may be why there hasn't been much news on the Katana front.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Starfish35

[Morrigan2575]

Huh, interesting

[wonderwall]

 

Ummm???? I'm not ready for this :p

[Carrie Ann]

Whoa, what's the source on that?