HighHopes December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 Honestly I don't see how they don't break up over this- or at least have a major fight. If the show goes the way I think it will, with Oliver lying about it while visiting the kid in SC and then Felicity finds out from another person? That's going to be a huge blow, and cause some major trust issues IMO. Oliver pretty much made Felicity a (future) step-mom without her knowledge, and that's not okay. They have made Felicity constantly forgive Oliver for some pretty big lies, and that has to stop. He's taking advantage of the fact that she's a pretty forgiving person, and he's hoping that, like she has in the past, she will forgive him for this lie too. I wish I could trust this show to handle this storyline, but i just can't. 8 Link to comment
way2interested December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 I don't think they will officially "break-up", but I do think they will spend some time apart. I can see FS storming off and needing air or space. It's in her characterization that storming off is how she handles emotional stress at times. But I will call major bullshit on the writing, if she just accepts his behavior without a moment of being completely pissed off at OQ. There has to be an emotionally raw moment from her and I feel like it's going to be an angry one. I think she will eventually understand his actions and forgive him. I feel like they will come out stronger as a couple because of it. FTR - It's still completely obnoxious (& unnecessary) the way the writers are forcing us through this plot line, but in the end I think it will be less damaging than first estimates. Yep, the more I think about it, I'm getting the feeling that they'll just be taking a break rather than fully being broken up (but I'm fully expecting that she'll give the engagement ring back, that's something I know a writer wouldn't want to miss).This is looking like it's going to be something that they'll have to work through rather than break-up and then randomly get back together, which makes sense since it will continue on their mature relationship thing they've got going with Olicity without alienating the audiences too much. I would love it to mean that these two will be rather done with any other large problems that prevents them from being together or getting married. One of the reasons that I also think that this might be the way that they're thinking of doing it since that going on a more emotional rather than anger allows them to avoid repeating scenes, especially repeating the story from 408 which they know by bow was not received well. Then again, they already did an emotional argument with 406, but at least they know that that episode was better received than the argument in 408. A bit of switching topics, but I wonder what the climax of this whole battle between TA and HIVE will be. I get that it will probably lead to something that will put the entire city in danger, since it will be May, but I just wonder what's going to be. The grave timeline puts the death at about March or April, so I just wonder what drives the team to fight and think they can win? At this point, the team almost lost, what's to stop DD from coming after all of them again, since they pretty much all have public lives that they can't run away from? 1 Link to comment
BunsenBurner December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 Since TPTB like to parallel fb and present day it wouldn't surprise me if the tattoo that Constantine gave Oliver would be used (he will know when per Constantine) in both to stop whatever magical or mystical problems that finally prove to be too overwhelming. 2 Link to comment
bijoux December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 The tattoo has to play a part, but so does Thea's whammy power. I feel that will be crucial. 4 Link to comment
way2interested December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 Part of me figured that the tattoo would just be part of the flashbacks, because then we wouldn't have to wonder why Oliver didn't use the magic tattoo back in a previous time when the city was in danger, like in s2 with mentioning the cure. Was it confirmed that the tattoo would help in the present day, or was it just confirmed that it would come back? Link to comment
kismet December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 (edited) The tattoo has to play a part, but so does Thea's whammy power. I feel that will be crucial. And the fact that they both kept those two important things from each other to solve the mystery & defeat the bad guy will be the dramatic climax of one of the pivotal episode of the climax probably episode 420 or 421. The tattoo has to play a role in the present day because it hasn't disappeared yet. Once he uses it, I'm sure it will vanish. Edited December 16, 2015 by kismet 2 Link to comment
apinknightmare December 16, 2015 Share December 16, 2015 (edited) The tattoo (per WM) is going to help him defeat Reiter-she never said anything about DD. So, assuming he used it in the past like it seems he will, then it doesn't disappear. Whether he can use it more than once, who knows. I certainly hope not. Edited December 16, 2015 by apinknightmare 2 Link to comment
Chaser December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I would be okay with the flashbacks only loosely connecting to the present time. It seems stupid that Oliver would just stubble over something that happens to connect in some contrived way. The only thing I need past-Oliver to connect to present-Oliver. I don't need some virus or magic tattoo or placeholder girlfriend to parallel anything. 3 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 December 17, 2015 Author Share December 17, 2015 I know she said Reiter but, I can't help but think it's going to be used in the present as well. I hope not but, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. 1 Link to comment
kismet December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 (edited) I would be okay with the flashbacks only loosely connecting to the present time. It seems stupid that Oliver would just stubble over something that happens to connect in some contrived way. The only thing I need past-Oliver to connect to present-Oliver. I don't need some virus or magic tattoo or placeholder girlfriend to parallel anything. I wanna hug this post. Because this is exactly how I feel about the flashbacks this season, I don't need or want there to be some super connection or insight about a plot point. But I have watched three seasons of the writers doing the same exact wash/rinse/repeat cycle with their basic plots that I can't imagine this season will be any different. Around episode 19, OQ always conveniently remembers some critical fact that connects what happens in the past to what happens in the present. It's predictable at this point. And I can't help but think this seasons lightbulb moment will be the tattoo. Part of me thinks it will link back to that last scene of 401 where I believe DD wrote something on his arms in what appeared to be blood. I match you one creepy tattoo for one mystical tattoo. Darkness defeated. Edited December 17, 2015 by kismet Link to comment
apinknightmare December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I know she said Reiter but, I can't help but think it's going to be used in the present as well. I hope not but, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. I'm sure it will. The main point of my post was to address the fact that it would disappear once used. Since he's supposed to use it on Reiter in the past, clearly it doesn't. Hopefully they explain that only magic can be used on magic or else I'll be left wondering why in the hell Oliver didn't use his little Care Bear stare tummy tattoo in other dire situations. 3 Link to comment
kismet December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I'm sure it will. The main point of my post was to address the fact that it would disappear once used. Since he's supposed to use it on Reiter in the past, clearly it doesn't. Hopefully they explain that only magic can be used on magic or else I'll be left wondering why in the hell Oliver didn't use his little Care Bear stare tummy tattoo in other dire situations. I think you might have solved the mystery of why it didn't disappear in the past.... It can only be used on certain magic. Just like the virus could only be contained by the most illogical & yet sciency sounding way in s3. So far Reiter hasn't been shown to be magical, just looking for mystical objects. I wonder if he is working on behalf of HIVE and that is what ARGUS sent OQ to find out. Whatever Reiter finds he sends back to DD and that increases his power & magic. I would not be surprised if OQ just shoots a whole bunch of bad guys in the past to get him the victory. No major or big mythical mystery, just your run of the mill quasi-dark stuff that he did with Gen Shrieve in s3. I also wouldn't be surprised if he is captured at the end of his shooting spree and taken forcibly to wherever next season's fb will be, which I think will be a Bratva based country. And he just wakes up in a cell somewhere and that is how the fb ends. Link to comment
quarks December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Maybe Oliver found that time in his flashback life as forgettable as we do. 16 Link to comment
Primal Slayer December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Im thinking maybe DD finally gets tired of Q and sends his men after him/Laurel? Link to comment
way2interested December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Im thinking maybe DD finally gets tired of Q and sends his men after him/Laurel? Since I'm on the Lance-is-in-the-grave train, I'm thinking that that will have to do with the death in March/April. I think that some other villain will be keeping TA busy, and then *surprise* DD, after finding out about Oliver' secret and that Lance was helping him all along, attacks Lance and Laurel. Lance sacrifices himself a la Moira Queen style, Laurel vows revenge. Roll credits. Or at least that's how I picture it. Link to comment
BunsenBurner December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 This is the way I picture it. Lance and Laurel are in a cage or whatever and DD gives them a choice on who should die. Of course Lance says take him he's her father Laurel should live. Somehow Laurel can't come up with any reason why she should die because she agrees with her father she should live because she is 'No Consequences Laurel'. DD doesn't like her attitude and kills her instead. Voilà Laurel is in the grave. 13 Link to comment
kismet December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 (edited) It looks like 414 will have a major fight scene directed by Bamford that will include QL & LL. So it might not be how either of them die, but it might set up that final showdown that leads to one of their deaths. Part of me is really interested in seeing how QL does in one the best action sequences that has PB, KC & BamBam gushing over themselves. I'd like to see him do more than run and shoot a gun. Perhaps they'll manage that. I was rather disappointed the last time BamBam raved about on of his stunts. SO I'll just have to wait and see. Edited - because JB can be confused for Barrowman... sorry folks! Was talking about BamBam :/ Edited December 17, 2015 by kismet 2 Link to comment
Guest December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 All this hyping of Bam Bam again makes me roll my eyes. Enough already. Link to comment
hogwash December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I hope those actions sequences are better this time. Can't even give it points for being ambitious cause S01/S02 did bigger/better action scenes. Outside of Andy vs Thea, I had no idea what the heck anyone was trying to do. 1 Link to comment
way2interested December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 It looks like 414 will have a major fight scene directed by Bamford that will include QL & LL. So it might not be how either of them die, but it might set up that final showdown that leads to one of their deaths. Part of me is really interested in seeing how QL does in one the best action sequences that has PB, KC & JB gushing over themselves. I'd like to see him do more than run and shoot a gun. Perhaps they'll manage that. I was rather disappointed the last time JB raved about on of his stunts. SO I'll just have to wait and see. Well, first, "JB" made me think you were talking about Barrowman, so that threw me off for a few seconds, ha! But, yeah, PB tweeting that got me wondering what the heck kind of scene they were feeling. Honestly, I liked some of the stunt scenes in 407. I just didn't like the direction or they way they were shot. And any time Bamford tries to rave about certain stunts (like BC in 311) they tend to fall flat while scenes that he hardly mentions (the long take elevator fight, which he hinted at but didn't elaborate on), I think are actually ok. I can't imagine what kind of stunt that has both PB and KC would be so exciting enough to mention, not intending to be rude to either of the actors, but I honestly can't see it. I'm also kind of done raving about Bamford. Yes, I'm glad he got to live out a goal to direct, but he got 414 because Antonio could not do it and because everyone there knows him. I'm not bitter, that's how the industry works, I get that, I just hope they don't overhype it this time around. Though, I am excited to see PB in a stunt in general. Guy's pretty toned himself and looks good when throwing a punch or shooting a gun. 2 Link to comment
kismet December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Well, first, "JB" made me think you were talking about Barrowman, so that threw me off for a few seconds, ha! But, yeah, PB tweeting that got me wondering what the heck kind of scene they were feeling. Honestly, I liked some of the stunt scenes in 407. I just didn't like the direction or they way they were shot. And any time Bamford tries to rave about certain stunts (like BC in 311) they tend to fall flat while scenes that he hardly mentions (the long take elevator fight, which he hinted at but didn't elaborate on), I think are actually ok. I can't imagine what kind of stunt that has both PB and KC would be so exciting enough to mention, not intending to be rude to either of the actors, but I honestly can't see it. I'm also kind of done raving about Bamford. Yes, I'm glad he got to live out a goal to direct, but he got 414 because Antonio could not do it and because everyone there knows him. I'm not bitter, that's how the industry works, I get that, I just hope they don't overhype it this time around. Though, I am excited to see PB in a stunt in general. Guy's pretty toned himself and looks good when throwing a punch or shooting a gun. Fixed it! Sorry didn't realize that. PB is pretty fit from photos we have seen so I am really interested in what he can bring to the stunt dept. He looks amazing shooting a gun & throwing a punch, I just want to see him do more. I'm also over all the BamBam gushing & overhyping. And thanks for reminding me it was supposed to be Antonio directing, now I'm bummed again :( Link to comment
kismet December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 (edited) Somebody dies!!! Just kidding. But seriously isn't that what they want us to think about every major scene this season? Edited December 17, 2015 by kismet Link to comment
EmilyBettFan December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I'm so tired of the whole action getting the most traction on Twitter. We know this show has action. I thought bam bam said he wasn't going to be posting on Twitter? Lol what a farce. Link to comment
Chaser December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Echo please don't talk to MG. He doesn't need a new adjective. 7 Link to comment
catrox14 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I'm guessing Curtis becomes Mr. Terrific that episode 3 Link to comment
BkWurm1 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Maybe Oliver found that time in his flashback life as forgettable as we do. So when he said that nothing good happened it also covered the most boring period in his life. Hmm.... I worry for the health of Curtis's hubby. 1 Link to comment
statsgirl December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 (edited) Oh noes, I really hope Hunkie Hubby doesn't die so that Curtis can become Mr. Terrific. Why is death the only way this show motivates people to become superheroes? Thank goodness for Felicity, who did it because she wanted to do good, not because someone was fridged for her. When the episode airs, we can have fun thinking how it would have been different if Negret had been the director. I don't see O/F as a couple that would throw a party for themselves, but I see them attending a lot of parties because of the nature of the work they both do. So if its an engagement party than it has a secondary purposes. Just like the Queen's Christmas Party was always portrayed as networking thing. That all being said, I do really think OQ loves to be a hosts and have gatherings, so now that he is embracing all of himself perhaps he will be returning to having more parties (yea for audience). In every season (except 3) he threw a party to celebrate someone or create a cover for something else. I honestly thing OQ as written right now would make an amazing First Lady. He definitely has a Jackie O/Michelle Obama quality about him. The perfect combination of inspiration and getting the job done. I believe in his leadership abilities, but I do see him loving the hosting duties of his new role as mayor. That reminded me of Seth Meyers interview with Hilary Clinton a couple of nights ago when he asked her what would make Bill a good first lady and she talked about his social skills and how he enjoys socializing. The tattoo has to play a part, but so does Thea's whammy power. I feel that will be crucial. I don't expect much from the tattoo other than plotty plot. I think when the writer came up with Constantine giving Oliver the tattoo, the EPs said "Oh, thank goodness! Now there's a logical reason for that damn tattoo to be there because we forgot about it in the Hong Kong season!" Edited December 17, 2015 by statsgirl 1 Link to comment
Scribbles December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 1. What if the big boss is not defeated by the end of the season? DD is working out pretty well and could carry over for a year end cliffhanger into the next season. 2. If Oliver tells Felicity the whole having a son story soon, before she discovers it otherwise, that is growth for him. His default is to lie and keep secrets. In this instance he has a bit of an excuse because of the BM threat/conditions. Felicity knows she is engaged with a work in progress and it doesn't have to be a trust buster if he tells her because "he can't live with a secret between them". 3. Couldn't the event/party be a victory party for the election and still explain all the guests? Just a few thoughts..... 2 Link to comment
chaos is welcome December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 (edited) Since I'm on the Lance-is-in-the-grave train, I'm thinking that that will have to do with the death in March/April. I think that some other villain will be keeping TA busy, and then *surprise* DD, after finding out about Oliver' secret and that Lance was helping him all along, attacks Lance and Laurel. Lance sacrifices himself a la Moira Queen style, Laurel vows revenge. Roll credits. Or at least that's how I picture it.Oh, then we can have revenge driven laurel going a little off the res. Team pulling her back in....oh, wait, didn't we do that on season 3? Sigh.I have a niggling suspicion that if it isn't a lance in the grave, it's thea and they are circling are coming full circle to a conflict with malcolm again. But I don't want to see Oliver lose another family member. Re olicity back lash of the lie, I suspect that donna's line "Oliver is nothing like your father" is going to come in to play when the truth comes out. That should be super fun. Again, sigh. Edited December 17, 2015 by chaos is welcome 1 Link to comment
Velocity23 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 (edited) So the stunt with Kc and Paul is in civilain clothes. Hmmmm i can imagine Darkh starting his revenge against Quentin in episode 4x14. Edited December 17, 2015 by Velocity23 Link to comment
bijoux December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I have a niggling suspicion that if it isn't a lance in the grave, it's thea and they are circling are coming full circle to a conflict with malcolm again. But I don't want to see Oliver lose another family member. I would welcome a conflic with Malcolm (99.99% of the time I think Thea would jump at it before Oliver), but I really don't want Oliver to lose her as well and if he is to lose her, I stand by my prediction that she will be instrumental in taking down Darhk, so it's definitely too soon in the season for her potential death. Besides, Oliver's reaction at the grave is still way too chill for it to be Thea. So the stunt with Kc and Paul is in civilain clothes. Hmmmm i can imagine Darkh starting his revenge against Quentin in episode 4x14. It would be high time for DD to get on that. Here's the photo from the set of KC and PB shooting that. 1 Link to comment
Chaser December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Regardless if it's Laurel or Lance, it's going to be a repeat storyline. Both went off the rails with the last family member they lost. If they hold it together this time then it's not much of a storyline. And Oliver is the one going after the guy, everyone else is support. Link to comment
tangerine95 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Yeah I agree.Both Lance and Laurel already did the whole losing a family member storyline.For Lance it would be new to actually turn his anger on the right person instead of blaming Oliver again.For Laurel I have no idea what she would get out of that storyline.She reacted to losing loved ones in every way possible already. Link to comment
tarotx December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Well Laurel needs a new motivation since Sara's alive... 3 Link to comment
Chaser December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Well Laurel needs a new motivation since Sara's alive... That legit made me laugh. I can actually see the writers having that conversation. "Doesn't bringing back Sara take away Laurel's motivation?" "Oh Crap, you're right. What do we do?" "Well it's been months. Laurel could decide she loves this life and helping other and just find her own motivation." "......" "Or we could kill Lance?" "Great! She could avenge him then honor him and then become him. An ADA can be a police captain right?" 16 Link to comment
Velocity23 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 But why would Laurel stay in Star City after this? Link to comment
hogwash December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 But why would Laurel stay in Star City after this? Exactly? Sara's gone adventuring, dad's dead(?), Laurel leaves town. It's my dream scenario. Plus, it's not like she's had a ton of those "my city" speeches. 3 Link to comment
tangerine95 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Does she even need new motivation,its not like she's doubting why she's fighting right now.And she doesn't have any conflict in being a hero now,like Oliver had while he was killing so when Tommy died that was his motivation to stop.Laurel doesn't have anything that Lance dying would motivate her to change unless they wanted her to go dark and want revenge but they already did that when Sara died,they just rushed through it. 2 Link to comment
Velocity23 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Also her mom lives in Central City. And i find it funny that we have seen more scenes of Quentin at his work, then anything of LL as lawyer. Also what does Laurel have outside being BC? Something that is just her own? Link to comment
kismet December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 (edited) I cannot see them getting rid of both Lances in one season. So if LL is not in the grave than she is with us for another season. IMO, I think QL grieving his daughter makes for a more interesting storyline. But who knows what the writers think? The only way I see her leaving town is if they somehow get her a role on LoT or FLASH. If not, LL will stick around Star City and they will find some motivation (or just skip over it per usual). I don't see how her father dying would automatically trigger her desire to up and move. I honestly see her more inclined to dig her heels in to avenge his death and promote his legacy. Edited December 17, 2015 by kismet 2 Link to comment
Velocity23 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 But it looks like Oliver will be part of the revenge, not LL. And it seems like a repeat of s3. Where LL talked and talked about avenging Sara but then nothing really happened. 1 Link to comment
tangerine95 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Yeah if its Quentin I don't see Laurel getting a part in the revenge storyline beyond fight scenes with random HIVE minions.They dropped her avenge Sara storyline after she like swore revenge at her grave about 3 times and Malcolm wasn't even a main villain.If DD is the one to kill him that storyline already went to Oliver. 2 Link to comment
looptab December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Are you kidding? She broke an hospitalized man's arm, pulled an empty gun against some dude, then got beaten up with her own baseball bat. Oh and then Malcolm Merlyn wiped the floor with her ass. And then she yelled at Oliver. 2 Link to comment
tarotx December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Laurel doesn't need new motivation but death is a tool that tptb love on Arrow. Maybe they can send her to Blind Spot. I actually think Katie would work well on that show. I know it's not on the CW but it is GB productions? And I think it has good enough ratings for a second season. Though I have this feeling that if Laurel is in the grave Earth 2 version will pop up. Maybe that verson of Laurel got on the Gambit with Oliver and has more of a Sara backstory. She will of course go by Dinah now... 1 Link to comment
Velocity23 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 Why would they bring someone from Earth 2 to Arrow? Link to comment
hogwash December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I still don't care about Laurel's motivation. The issue with her was always that she had nothing to offer Team Arrow as a untrained lawyer. She couldn't fight, tech, hack or help in any discernible way. There was no reason for her to suit up. There was no reason for anyone (poor S03 Felicity) to lobby for her to join. Who cares if a person really really wants to get involved if they have no skills, training, or expertise to do so? Obviously the show knew that since they broke their own rules to give her (and Thea) the skills, training, or expertise to actually justify them being on Team Arrow. What does motivation matter? What happens to the police station set if Lance bites it? If Oliver's the mayor, it makes way more sense to keep that character/set around. Since the city is a crime-ridden disaster, it wouldn't be weird for the mayor to be hanging around/planning with the whatever Lance is now (police chief? captain?). Why would the mayor be hanging around with a DA/ADA? If it's Lance, they shouldn't have made Lady Cop a corrupt cop... 5 Link to comment
tarotx December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I was actually mainly just joking because Laural has gotten everything of Sara's run and this would be the way to give her Sara's backstory. And then because comic DLL calls herself Dinah this would be the way to make Her Dinah. Why would they bring someone from Earth 2 to Arrow? Link to comment
Velocity23 December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 But even the superheroes arent the same on Earth 2. Jay Garrick is the Flash, Robert Queen seems to be Green Arrow. I would expect LL and Saras mother to be Black Canary there. Link to comment
kismet December 17, 2015 Share December 17, 2015 I didn't say she would be good at avenging her father's death... I'm just saying that is the reason they will keep her in SC. LL being in the grave makes the most sense to me from a narrative perspective as has been talked about ad nauseum in previous posts & threads. I just think it's unrealistic that ARROW would take out all the Lances in one season. 1 Dies. 1 Moves Away. 1 Stays to avenge/grieve/deal. Sadly the best of the fighters already moved away. I just hope they keep the best of the remaining characters. Because I think QL is the better character and PB is the better actor. LL has and will continue to offer nothing to the ARROW narrative, but they kept her around for 4 seasons knowing that, so who knows what they will do. They tend to get rid of the potential & keep the duds. I hope they break their pattern. 6 Link to comment
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